I heard on the news the company wants them to take a 25% pay cut. Thats laughable! Certainly they cant be serious. I think I might say somehting like "you first". Why should they take a pay cut like that while those at the top end of the company are getting huge bonuses.
I was recently price checking for a trip I was taking and Northwest was the most expensive by far. Somehow I dont think theyre spending that extra on the little guy.
posted by swantucky at 12:09 P.M. EST on Sat Aug 20, 2005 #
Hi swantucky, off the subject here, just have to tell you...too funny...remember the Yahoo Jeep Site we started to invade...well...the Owner sent me an e-mail asking if "Toledo Talk" was a Jeep Site!!!
Also, on the subject, I agree with you on the prices NorthWest offers, I travel to Florida often, they are usually much higher than say Spirit, Spirit flys Non-Stop, NorthWest most always has lay-over and are much higher...
I agree with the Mechanic's Strike, yet...where will it get them, Pilots, Attendants and Ground Workers are still Working! The Company has 1,900 people trained, ready to jump in!
posted by MARIELORA at 12:18 P.M. EST on Sat Aug 20, 2005 #
Why have unions then if nobody is going to "be a brother"?
posted by BrianInFlorida at 12:39 P.M. EST on Sat Aug 20, 2005 #
Exactly...why should UNIONS ask US to boycott NorthWest...when...their fellow co-workers are not backing the Mechanics.
posted by MARIELORA at 12:42 P.M. EST on Sat Aug 20, 2005 #
Hi Marielora, did you tell the owner of the yahoo site to join up here at Toledo Talk? I feel kinda bad for him since his site isnt getting any attention and we teased him so to speak by joinging up and then nothing. oh well, thats life.
posted by swantucky at 12:43 P.M. EST on Sat Aug 20, 2005 #
yes, swantucky, I did tell him to look at Toledo Talk...
Don't feel bad...I explained...we had thought his Site was a Jeep Vent Site, then learned it was about Jeep Owners!
posted by MARIELORA at 12:46 P.M. EST on Sat Aug 20, 2005 #
This morning I read...that Saturday, while a NorthWest Plane landed it blew 4 tires...also, one Plane had an Emergency landing, Flight Attendants, smelled SMOKE in the Cabin...
If...the Striking Mechanic's were on the JOB could the above instances been avoided?
NorthWest claims, their flying high and on schedule with the Mechanic's Striking...
One pasenger boarding stated..."aslong as the Mechanic's are trained, she will continue to fly NorthWest"
These STRIKING MECHANICS have NO SUPPORT from fellow Union Brothers and Sisters employed with NorthWest or with the 1,900 workers that jumped in the replace the Mechanics or with the PUBLIC...
Where will this STRIKE get them? My thinking...they will accept the 25% wage and healthcare cut...what choices do they have?
posted by MARIELORA at 11:27 A.M. EST on Sun Aug 21, 2005 #
We are witnessing the DEATH of a union!
posted by lets_talk_serious at 03:20 P.M. EST on Sun Aug 21, 2005 #
Well, when a union says they'd rather see their company go bankrupt and all their other union brothers and sisters (40,000 of them) lose their jobs rather than accept the company's offer, you're certainly seeing the death of a union.
Personally, I don't have a problem with this one. I'm tired of hearing that unions get pay increases but that some workers will have to be laid off in order to meet the pay increases...sheer lunacy if you ask me! And certainly not what I've come to expect from solidarity!
posted by intrepid at 06:29 P.M. EST on Sun Aug 21, 2005 #
Agree, marielora, this strike makes no sense also, agree with intrepid, what kind of union would set a goal to bankrupt a company causing thousands of union brothers and sisters to possibly lose their jobs.
posted by ajeepthing at 07:48 P.M. EST on Sun Aug 21, 2005 #
I hope they squash the strikers like bugs.
What were these idiots thinking? Unemployment is sky high in the Detroit area. There are lots of blue collar guys with some mechanical skills who will be eager to take the strikers jobs.
But then again, intelligence was never a strong suit of the union man.
He will go the way of the dodo. The question is, will the "Lake Erie West" region go down with him, or will people here be smart enough to realize that non union labor is the wave of the future?
posted by paddington at 11:22 P.M. EST on Sun Aug 21, 2005 #
Why I posted this Topic...I am Union...and...anymore, it seems the Union has it's own agenda...with little regard for US their members...
This Mechanics Union swears they will bankrupt NorthWest with this Strike...I don't see it happening...
This STRIKE may very well KILL the Mechanics Union...
And...NORTHWEST will continue to FLY HIGH...without dealing with a Mechanics Union in the future...
posted by MARIELORA at 12:20 A.M. EST on Mon Aug 22, 2005 #
Let me add...inasmuch as a 25% wage cut and healtcare cut is asking much...which would be a Strikeable Issue, without any support with this STRIKE...NorthWest still Flies...
IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME...yes, we will witness the DEATH of a Union...
posted by MARIELORA at 12:24 A.M. EST on Mon Aug 22, 2005 #
will people here be smart enough to realize that non union labor is the wave of the future?
------------------------------------
Yeah-and $6.50 to $7.00 an hour is also the wave of the future-has been in this area for about 15 years, as a matter of fact. We can't support the country on those wages (that's going to cause a BIG problem with S.S.),through taxes. If all the anti-union or non-union places would pay liveable wages (I'm NOT talking high school or college students here, but ADULTS who can't live on anything less than $8), I'd be inclined to go along with you.
posted by Foolkiller at 01:12 A.M. EST on Mon Aug 22, 2005 #
Despite my dislike of Republican crowing -- well exampled by Paddington -- I do actually hope that unions get busted. After all, they understand nothing of solidarity, so having lost their only real power, what can we expect but for them to fade away under the weight of their mediocrity?
The two-tier wage system itself is a fine example of the rank-and-file not understanding solidarity. If you secure your own future by denying the rights of future workers to come, then you've betrayed the American worker and generally deserve to be buried up to your eyeballs in river dredgings heavily polluted with mercury.
The American union worker is happily destroying his own union. Why should I sympathize with this twit?
Later on, when it becomes apparent that globalism is just a plan to permanently place populations into wage slavery, I'm sure unions will re-emerge after quite a bit of violence and death. If there's one thing we understand about history, is that we don't understand history enough to avoid repeating its mistakes.
So let's encourage it. People have no understanding about the utter importance of worker solidarity (note: not necessarily unions) to oppose the near-zero friction underneath global capital, so we may as well get our blackest laugh at them while they fidget over their piddling retirement benefits as if those mattered in the long run.
Let's praise the idea of screwing over your fellow man in order to secure benefits for yourself. Why not be honest for a change? Our society grows more vicious with each passing year. Isn't it time to make it official?
posted by GuestZero at 02:37 A.M. EST on Mon Aug 22, 2005 #
GuestZero, I do believe there will be a revolution...and...our...CHILDREN will be fighting it...
So much GREED...with all this GREED...we have left NOTHING for them...
Thankyou for your comment...
posted by MARIELORA at 03:41 A.M. EST on Mon Aug 22, 2005 #
Florida is a "right to work" state. Unions haven't actually caught on down here, yet most entry level positions in my area, sans landscaping and orange grove work and the evil empire Disney, start out at $9 an hour. (Disney is union, yet hires BILLIONS of part-timers, Jeep style). Even most fast-food joints pay $10 to start(and they're begging for employees). Wal Mart pays $13 an hour starting wage to stack boxes at the distribution center. All non-union. (Note Florida is a "service environment", not a "manufacturing environment").
When you take your union dues and the drama that goes with it, granted the cash is good, but you're living in fear and anxiety. It's becomming more obvious that the union standing by your side these days is slipping more cash from your wallet and aren't standing up for the best interest of their members.(note NorthWest)
posted by BrianInFlorida at 04:21 A.M. EST on Mon Aug 22, 2005 #
The reason why the unions are so retarded is because they don't give a damn about their own company's profitability.
Let's not beat around the bush, any idiot who has taken Economics 101 or any kind of business class knows that the job of a company is to make profit, preferably more and not less.
But to listen to these union clowns, you would think that it's a crime for the company to post any kind of profit. They then compare their compensation with that of the CEO. Ridiculous!
Many of these unions like to see their company fail, even if it results in all of them losing their jobs. That's because they've been taught to hate. They loath their own employer with a passion.
The unions and union labor are the scum of the Earth. The state of Ohio should scrap its policies in which it gives favoritism to unionized companies for state contracts, and pass a right to work law which will enable job growth like in all the other right-to-work states.
posted by paddington at 06:13 A.M. EST on Mon Aug 22, 2005 #
ooOOOooo.. Isnt it great to be an American and have the right to say what you think without repercusions.
Personally, I have no problem with comanies making a nice big profit. They make money and I make money... But wait. What about the many that are top heavy. Too many cheifs and not enough indians. The chiefs getting bonuses for the work the indians did. Then the money gets tight and the indians are told we cant pay you so much anymore.
Once again, when a company wants to cut the wages and benifits of the employees I say "You First".
Without the workers there is no company.. Those CEOs wouldnt last a day on a Jeep line, or stocking a shelf at Walmart. Even the fast food CEOs can only do the job for an hour or so. So they need to share the wealth for there would be no wealth without the little guy.
posted by swantucky at 07:02 A.M. EST on Mon Aug 22, 2005 #
There has to be a device in place between the chiefs and braves to legislate fairness.
There also needs to be a device in place to reward braves that DO make chiefs very happy, as well as providing security for the braves so another, less-qualified brave could not just wander in and offer to use cheaper utinsils for the job the qualified brave has.
This device has a price, of course, but if the device is effective, then pay for it to work. When the device becomes a burden for both the chief and the brave, it's time for a new device.
Remind me what exactly happened to companies like Bethlehem Steel?
posted by BrianInFlorida at 07:27 A.M. EST on Mon Aug 22, 2005 #
Abraham Lincoln said, "You cannot build up the wage earner by tearning down the wage payer."
Unions and companies can find a host of lessons in that one!
posted by intrepid at 08:48 A.M. EST on Mon Aug 22, 2005 #
Excuse the typo...
"You cannot build up the wage earner by tearing down the wage payer."
my apologies to Mr. Lincoln.
posted by intrepid at 01:21 P.M. EST on Mon Aug 22, 2005 #
Very true...intrepid...
posted by MARIELORA at 03:01 P.M. EST on Mon Aug 22, 2005 #
Yet...intrepid, let me add...Workers take cuts...after...cuts...do these Union Representatives? Union Locals...Corporate Heads?
I feel, Unions are just as GREEDY as Corporations are GREEDY...Florida to me...is the way to go...work for everyone, with NO MIDDLE MAN (Unions)!
posted by MARIELORA at 03:25 P.M. EST on Mon Aug 22, 2005 #
I think that the original premise of the unions was viable, but over time....
Florida is a service state, how true. But that's because it's primary source of jobs is the citrus industry and the tourist industry. Having been gone from there for several years, I'm not sure which one is first at this point.
Unions have outlived their usefulness. I think it's pretty ovbvious that the security afforded by the union shops of years ago is not as strong as it used to be.
posted by DoknowDocare at 04:07 P.M. EST on Mon Aug 22, 2005 #
Unions have actually been highly successful - the majority of issues they originally fought for are now part of our laws, safety rules, etc.
They just haven't learned to grow with the times. But then again, I'm one of those who say that any organization, once meeting its goal, should celebrate and close - not continually re-invent itself in order to be self-perpetuating. (That goes for government, too...Reagan said the closest thing to eternity was a government program!)
posted by intrepid at 06:42 A.M. EST on Tue Aug 23, 2005 #
Intrepid - I wasn't saying that unions were bad. Just that in the grander scheme of things they had outlived their usefulness in general. One reason for this is, as you said, that the majority of issues that fostered the birth of unions have now become law. Also, the average worker now is much more savvy as to their rights and responsibilities as a employee.
And, at the risk of being chewed up, the unions have become a component of the sad state that Toledo and NW Ohio are in. (Referring to our immediate area only.) Keep in mind I said component, not sole cause.
Just an opinion...
posted by DoknowDocare at 06:58 A.M. EST on Tue Aug 23, 2005 #
I agree completely, DoknowDocare. I also believe that the issues they adopt (like living wage/prevailing wage/etc) are more of a component in hampering growth in our area than some would like to admit.
posted by intrepid at 12:56 P.M. EST on Tue Aug 23, 2005 #
Even the Blade pens editorials from time to time saying that Toledo is known as "high wage union town" in business circles, and that makes businessmen cross the town off their lists. Now the wages aren't even that high anymore, because of so many years of anti-growth self destruction. But the fears of union trouble makers remain, and that keeps away investment for the most part.
I personally think the state shouldn't give unions any privelages. They've gotten the state to pass all kinds of laws that protects them. For example, they have union violence statutes. If you go and stab someone, you'll be charged with murder. But if you go and stab someone, and then later claim that you're a union member and thought you were killing a scab, then you'll be charged under a seperate "union violence" statute, which carries with it a lesser crime.
But moreso than that are silly state laws that mandate that certain contracts have to be given to unionized businesses. These laws are protecting the unions unnecessarily when what we should be doing is discouraging this union nonsense.
posted by paddington at 09:15 P.M. EST on Tue Aug 23, 2005 #
The Northwest strike could usher in a new period of bare-knuckle bargaining, but airline unions have been giving up ground in their contract negotiations for years if not decades.
Northwest Airlines Flying at all with striking mechanic's...is of something companies DREAM of...Northwest met all schedules this past weekend...
Yes, we are witnessing the DEATH of a UNION...
posted by MARIELORA at 07:06 P.M. EST on Wed Aug 24, 2005 #
I wonder if Northwest should even bother to renogotiate with the striking mechanics. It seems that the replacements work for less money, but do a better job (there are far fewer replacements than there are striking workers). So Northwest has the best of both worlds: cheaper costs and superior labor.
posted by paddington at 02:18 P.M. EST on Thu Aug 25, 2005 #
I wonder what paddington does for a living?
posted by JeepMaker at 04:15 P.M. EST on Thu Aug 25, 2005 #
JeepMaker...Don't you KNOW...paddington OWNS NORTHWEST AIRLINES...
Or...She's THE PRESIDENT OF THE STRIKING MECHANICS UNION....
Either way...Both amount to the SAME...GREED...
paddington...only in fun :-)
posted by MARIELORA at 04:32 P.M. EST on Thu Aug 25, 2005 #
Found this on MSN
American employers, looking at this, can be very much emboldened," said Gary Chaison, a professor at Clark University. "They will think that if they see such a situation, they can regain the offensive in bargaining."
My comment on this, Well yeah, the strikers had no support of their brothers and sisters at Northwest; the mechanic union's goal is to bankrupt Northwest, this union will die along with other unions within Northwest.
posted by ajeepthing at 05:54 P.M. EST on Thu Aug 25, 2005 #
As I commented in an earlier post: We are witnessing the death of a union, for the future: we will witness more union deaths!
Whose to blame? Northwest mechanic strike? the union for the mechanics! What kind of idiots are running their union?
posted by lets_talk_serious at 12:51 P.M. EST on Fri Aug 26, 2005 #
For those who would wish to do something more than cry crocodile tears of gloom and doom.Here is the link to the AMFA website strike fund. I am sending my check today.If they need further assistance, I have also provided them with my name and address. I will help and assist them.I know, and do realize, that there are underlying reasons and issues surrounding their lack of support. At this point in time I will simply say that they are another Union that is fighting for survival.These people have families to support.I will help them. That's my decision. Here is the link for donations to their national strike fund.
http://www.amfanatl.org/Pages/15_Strike_Info/Support_Strikers_3.html Here is the local link also. With a strike fund account link on the page. http://www.amfa5.org/ Have a nice day everyone.
Due to the overwhelming response from the public that is interested in donating to our cause, AMFA Local 5 has created a Strike Account at Wings Financial Credit Union. If you would like to make a cash donation, please send to:
Wings Financial FCU
14985 Glazier Avenue, Suite 100
Apple Valley, MN 55124-7440
Attn: AMFA STRIKE FUND ACCOUNT #225365.
We would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone that has donated so far and to all that may in the future...
posted by Bbcmjeep43 at 05:50 P.M. EST on Fri Aug 26, 2005 #
AFL-CIO New Teamsters: Stern said the Northwest Airlines strike was an example of what has gone wrong in the labor movement, with multiple unions not having sufficient clout to reach an agreement.
posted by MARIELORA at 05:07 P.M. EST on Sat Aug 27, 2005 #
AN UPDATE OF NORTHWEST STRIKERS...
The union said it would continue to focus on getting replacement workers to quit. On Tuesday members plan to picket a Minneapolis hotel where leaders say many of the replacement workers are staying.
Dozens of union members wore T-shirts that read “Scab Hunter.”
“Clearly, they know what they’re doing is wrong,” Steve MacFarlane, AMFA’s assistant national director, said of the replacement workers. “If we challenge them in that situation, often they’ll leave.”
The union said it would continue to focus on getting replacement workers to quit. On Tuesday members plan to picket a Minneapolis hotel where leaders say many of the replacement workers are staying.
Dozens of union members wore T-shirts that read “Scab Hunter.”
“Clearly, they know what they’re doing is wrong,” Steve MacFarlane, AMFA’s assistant national director, said of the replacement workers. “If we challenge them in that situation, often they’ll leave.”
NORTHWEST AIRLINES SPOKEPERSON STATES:
The only DELAY they anticipate will be because of the HURRICANE!
posted by MARIELORA at 11:44 A.M. EST on Sun Aug 28, 2005 #
Here is the link to the story Marielora spoke of.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/N/NORTHWEST_MECHANICS?SITE=MIDTN&SECTION=BUSINESS&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
posted by Bbcmjeep43 at 12:15 P.M. EST on Sun Aug 28, 2005 #
Thankyou...Bbcmjeep43...
posted by MARIELORA at 12:24 P.M. EST on Sun Aug 28, 2005 #
Bbcmjeep43,I still need to learn how to make LINKS for this site...
I have been PASTING AND COPING...thankyou...
posted by MARIELORA at 12:47 P.M. EST on Sun Aug 28, 2005 #
Marielora,
Copy and paste into the letter you are writing, just make sure there is a space both before, and after, the link you pasted. Then it will show up.
posted by Bbcmjeep43 at 01:16 P.M. EST on Sun Aug 28, 2005 #
Marielora,
When you are on the site you want a link to,copy the link right out of the browser address window.Highlight the entire link.(left click) Right click to open a menu.(copy) Then go to your letter and insert it wherever you want.(paste it) Just make sure you have a space both before and after the link.That's it.
posted by Bbcmjeep43 at 01:23 P.M. EST on Sun Aug 28, 2005 #
Bbcmjeep43, Thankyou...Check my "COFFEE" Topic...I did IT!!! I included a LINK!!!
:-)
posted by MARIELORA at 02:49 P.M. EST on Sun Aug 28, 2005 #
NorthWest Airlines Strike may be DOOMED...NorthWest still FLIES HIGH...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9135300/
posted by MARIELORA at 02:59 P.M. EST on Wed Aug 31, 2005 #
Friends, please post and circulate. Thanks, UnionWanted
1. Democracy on the Waterfront: resources for ILA members
2. Give to AUD in memory of an activist
3. Volunteer for AUD
4. New Links: Animators, Food and Commercial Workers, Autoworkers,
NAGEmembers…
5. New AUDFeeds
-----------------------------------------
1. Democracy on the Waterfront: resources for ILA members.
The US Department of Justice has filed a RICO suit against the ILA.
The key to freeing the union from corruption and winning crucial
democratic reforms is an organized and active membership. AUD has
created a page that pulls together information and resources ILA
members can get from AUD: information about your democratic rights and
how to enforce them, background on the struggle against corruption in
the ILA, the possible consequences of the RICO suit and more. See the
page at http://www.uniondemocracy.org/Legal/ILA%20
Longshore%20workers.htm
2. Give to AUD in memory of an activist.
AUD welcomes contributions made in memory of a friend, family member,
or coworker who supported union democracy. Dave Robbins and Arthur
Doty ask that we remember "Teamster Rebel" Jerry Crowley, who
fought for many years to strengthen and democratize Boston Teamsters
Local 82 and recently died of a heart attack. Read more about brother
Crowley and donate in his memory at
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3. Volunteer for AUD. Work with AUD staff on online projects. Current
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Help index Union Democracy Review.
Post current articles from Union Democracy Review to discussion lists.
See our new volunteer page at
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4. New Links.
Oregon Workers Union; Animation Guild; Pernicious Representation
(UFCW); Change Your Union (UAW Yahoo group); Unofficial IBU site (and
Yahoo group); NAGEmembers; Cybersteward.net.
See Rank-and-File links.
http://www.uniondemocracy.org/AUDLinks/AUDLinks.htm
5. New AUDFeeds.
AUD's list of RSS feeds is rapidly growing. We now have twenty
five rank-and-file blogs, discussion lists, and websites, along with
other labor resources and official union feeds. See the feeds here,
subscribe, and let us know about feeds to add.
http://www.bloglines.com/public/AUDFeeds
(An RSS feed is available on the AUD homepage. These updates are also
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http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/audupdates/?yguid=182316330)
An RSS feed is available on the AUD homepage. These updates are also
now posted publicly on our Yahoo Groups page http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/audupdates/?yguid=182316330
Reply to: info@uniondemocracy.org
Do you support a strong, democratic labor movement? Join AUD. AUD relies on the individual contributions of union members to carry out our mission to promote a strong, democratic, and honest labor movement. Join or contribute online at http://www.uniondemocracy.org/Home/joinaud.htm or call 718-564-1114.
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posted by UnionWanted at 05:42 P.M. EST on Wed Aug 31, 2005 #
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9172569/
posted by MARIELORA at 07:31 P.M. EST on Fri Sep 02, 2005 #
Looks like there may be some concerns and questions regarding the REPLACEMENT MECHANICS TRAINING... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9568615/
posted by MARIELORA at 03:31 P.M. EST on Sun Oct 02, 2005 #
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