No surprise about Detroit; I passed through Detroit tonight to see the St. Francis vs. Birmingham Brother Rice game (Knights lost 27-3).
On my way up to the 'burbs, I stopped off at two of my old Detroit neighborhoods.
Nothing left but the dopers, hookers, and liquor stores. What a shame.
Also interesting to note that Orleans Parish, LA is the 6th-poorest county in the US. Again, probably no surprise after this week's horrors, but the statistics put poverty in the Big Easy in a context that we can understand.
posted by historymike at 10:44 P.M. EST on Sat Sep 03, 2005 #
Just an interesting tid-bit about Detroit. I read somewhere (possibly in Newsweek when they ranked Kwame one of the worst mayors) that there are between 40,000 and 60,000 vacant and abandoned homes in the city of Detroit. There's a vicious cycle in Detroit, and I don't see a turnaround there in the future either. The population is declining so fast, which results in lower tax revenues, which then leads to tax increases, which causes more people to leave. It's really sad that one of the largest cities in the US is destined to be a modern ghost town within the next few decades.
posted by HeyHey at 12:11 A.M. EST on Sun Sep 04, 2005 #
Politicians (and stupidity of voters) allowed it to happen, so be it. The same thing is slowly starting to rear it's ugly head here, unfortunately. I believe we may be in the early stages. The decent neighborhoods many of us grew up in here in Toledo are now just like the ones you describe up there.
posted by Foolkiller at 04:32 A.M. EST on Sun Sep 04, 2005 #
Detroit's decline, however, is almost beyond description.
HeyHey is right about the abandoned homes; the situation is so bad that the city and county do not even know how many abandoned homes there are, or where they are located.
At least in Toledo the housing officials have a good idea on the extent of the problem (fixing it, alas, is another story). In Detroit vacant, blighted houses have mushroomed into a problem beyond the city's ability to simply document, let alone solve.
There little doubt about that Kilpatrick is crooked and inept, but the housing problems began in the 1980s under Coleman Young; Kwame should only be singled out for failure to contain the problem.
posted by historymike at 08:38 A.M. EST on Sun Sep 04, 2005 #
Wow that many? Let's hope hell night (Oct 30th) doesn't have any fatalities this year. Hell night is when the losers burn abandoned homes.
posted by jeepgal at 12:54 P.M. EST on Sun Sep 04, 2005 #
HeyHey said: "There's a vicious cycle [where] The population is declining so fast, which results in lower tax revenues, which then leads to tax increases, which causes more people to leave."
HeyHey, WHY is that a vicious cycle? Is there some law that says a government cannot downsize when faced with reduced income?
Historymike said: "There little doubt about that Kilpatrick is crooked and inept, but the housing problems began in the 1980s under Coleman Young; Kwame should only be singled out for failure to contain the problem."
"Only"? Did I miss something about the elitist and irresponsible do-nothing that is Detroit's present mayor? His list of faults is too long for this website to contain. But the primary one is that he was elected like many other Black mayors because he was a race card played by a dying economy. More accurately, the major card players left the table, and a couple of kids came in and picked up their hands and tried to keep playing.
I get sick and disgusted at the trend of worshipping mayoral positions without proper regard for qualification and accomplishment. In Toledo's case, Ford had neither, but merely by being the endorsed Democrat in a town with twice the national Black population average, he was unstoppable. After almost 4 years of doing precisely nothing (other than continuing the sellout of Toledo's taxing authority, as well as being the area's largest employer of 5- and 6-digit consultants), he STILL has significant electoral force.
In a time of any real electoral choices, the lack of NOTA ("none of the above" -- a ballot choice when all the other choices suck wad) is very strongly felt in a system that refuses to fix itself.
After too much of this, a benevolent dictator is going to look entirely too appealing. A system that's this weak is suspect to outside forces.
posted by GuestZero at 09:49 P.M. EST on Sun Sep 04, 2005 #
GZero,
No, there's no law like that at all, but we all know in Detroit's current political environment downsizing is never going to happen. It was recently rated the most liberal-voting city in the country (which says A LOT when comparing it to San Fran and NYC).
I think high taxes are directly to blame for Detroit's (and many of the Rust Belt's) problems. I always had a feeling that if population trends and tax rates were compared then you'd find the two are indirectly proportional. I tested my hypothesis a couple months ago by randomly picking 30-40 cities in all regions of the US with populations 250,000 and up. I looked up their population change from the 1990 census to 2003 estimates, and I found their total tax revenue numbers. My hypothesis was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Cities with growing populations (e.g. Louisville, Indy, Nashville, Denver, etc) spent a total of about $800/year/person. Meanwhile those cities in decline spent on average ~$1500/year/person. Pretty significant difference. Instead of that money staying in individuals pockets it is spent inefficiently by local government, so people either don't move there or current residents move away. Toledo spends about $1400/year/person, Cincy spent a little over $2000/year/person, and Detroit spends a little over $3000/year/person.
In my opinion, Toledo needs to cut it's budget by about 40%, Detroit by about 70%, and Cincy by about 60%. Only then, I think, will these cities rebound from the decades of population decline.
posted by HeyHey at 11:58 P.M. EST on Sun Sep 04, 2005 #
I get sick and disgusted at the trend of worshipping mayoral positions without proper regard for qualification and accomplishment. In Toledo's case, Ford had neither, but merely by being the endorsed Democrat in a town with twice the national Black population average, he was unstoppable. After almost 4 years of doing precisely nothing (other than continuing the sellout of Toledo's taxing authority, as well as being the area's largest employer of 5- and 6-digit consultants), he STILL has significant electoral force.
-------------------------------------------
You couldn't have said it more elequently. That is EXACTLY the way I feel about it-word for word. As soon as that (also useless) witch Ross drafted him to run, I knew it was over. Because SHE knew exactly the same things you said-and so did I. All to keep Her faction/group of the party in power, and the citizens be damned.
posted by Foolkiller at 12:15 A.M. EST on Mon Sep 05, 2005 #
HeyHey, we must ask you for your data for your statements. If I'm going to say to people that "fiscal restraint is a hallmark of the modern growing urban area", then I'm going to have to see the data directly.
The numbers for Toledo and Detroit seem to have a huge disparity, but given Detroit's prior wealthy state that's understandable. In fact, it speaks for some hope for Toledo in that the $1400 value cannot climb too much despite the voracious appetites of pols like Carty and Ford. To make it grow to the Cinci level while Toledo's population shrinks, there would have to be outright and shameless theft at the council level. To spend 600 more dollars per person for about 310000 people, Toledo's $400M budget would have to expand 50%.
Considering that Toledo was unable to produce the $8M bribe that it would have taken to keep O-I downtown, I have my doubts about adding $180M to Toledo's income.
posted by GuestZero at 06:35 P.M. EST on Mon Sep 05, 2005 #
I wonder if their is any corelation to the fact that Detroit has legalized gambling? Has this made this situation worse? Does anyone know of the corelation between cities that have legalized gambling and the poverty rating of that particular city?
posted by lloyd at 09:46 P.M. EST on Wed Sep 07, 2005 #
GZ,
It's pretty easy to get all that data. I did it in about an hour and a half. I searched Google to find each city's budget department and I matched that with the Census Bureau's population statistics. For example, according to Detroit's approved budget they spent $2,821,000,000 and have a population of 900,000 residents. That means they spent $3134/person. I actually left all that data i compiled on my old computer and have no access to it, but I used the same technique for all the cities.
posted by HeyHey at 07:54 P.M. EST on Fri Sep 09, 2005 #
Lloyd: Gambling has not caused Detroit's housing or budget troubles; they began in the early 1970s, got much worse in the 1980s, slowed in the 1990s under Dennis Archer, and seem to be getting worse in the era of Mayor Kwame M. Kilpatrick .
Any effects that gambling will have on Detroit will likely not be measurable for a decade or so.
However, it is hard to see where things can get much worse in the Motor-less City.
posted by historymike at 09:21 P.M. EST on Fri Sep 09, 2005 #
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