Ofcourse there is no TRUTH in this...Jesse Jackson too made a comment to the effect that the "slow response" was racially motivated...
I find comments as such an opportunity to use the Race Card...those poor people have been through enough in New Orleans...racial unrest is not NEEDED...or...WARRANTED...
President Busch has assumed all responsibility for for the "slow response"...what more can be said...
posted by MARIELORA at 09:11 P.M. EST on Tue Sep 13, 2005 #
Of course it's racism-racism in reverse. Crow Jim.
posted by Foolkiller at 10:43 P.M. EST on Tue Sep 13, 2005 #
I also fail to understand why people continue to call the federal response slow. Here's a very good contrary opinion in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette on the response time.
Getting thousands of troops and tons of supplies through an area that was just devastated by a massive hurricane must be a colossal task. I think they did a fantastic job getting there as fast as they did.
-Dan
posted by photodan at 11:21 P.M. EST on Tue Sep 13, 2005 #
Funny how photodan politicizes Katrina, and gets away with it.
Hey, jr, when are you gonna ban him and disappear this thread? Aren't posts like this supposed to be put in the hidden thread? Selective enforcement at work?
posted by anonymouscoward at 02:58 A.M. EST on Wed Sep 14, 2005 #
I'm sure that additional thousands of National Guardsmen would have been very helpful. Whoops! Its seems that it's more important having them instead kill towelheads and catch some shrapnel themselves to make the militarists look good.
Photodan, you've got to put the Neo-Con kool-aid down and start drinking the clear, refreshing water of identifying the Bush Administration's plan to militarize and corporatize America. By definition, the poor and Black are the ones going to be hardest hit by such outrageous social changes.
For laughs, let's start discussing levee funding for each year of Bush's so-called administration. Care to start that one off, Photodan? Or is there too much truth inside that topic for you?
posted by GuestZero at 05:14 A.M. EST on Wed Sep 14, 2005 #
While criticizing the priorities of the Bush administration can be done legitimately, I have to agree with photodan’s post. The difference of opinion seems to be about the mindset of the person with the opinion. There are some people who think the federal government should just wave a magic wand and make the storm and flood go away, and there are others who know that not even god could transport thousands of troops and pump billions of gallons of floodwater out of the city in ten minutes. As for Jesse Jackson and Farra kook, they both have their own agendas. They will whine and bitch until they have accomplished their goals. Jesse Jackson wants to screw as many people and businesses as possible, out of money, until there is nobody left to swindle. Farra kook on the other hand is absolute evil, he won’t be satisfied until every kike and white devil is dead.
posted by mike2004 at 07:09 A.M. EST on Wed Sep 14, 2005 #
The people of New Orleans are totally devastated at this point. To maintain focus on race or politics is a total waste of time and energy.
These people need help. Once the help is rendered and there is some level of 'normalcy' returned to them there will be ample time to analyze, criticize, and politicize the whole event.
Comments such as those of Jackson and Farrakan (sic) are inflammatory, antagonistic, and totally non-productive.
Just my take on things...
posted by DoknowDocare at 07:16 A.M. EST on Wed Sep 14, 2005 #
AC, quit whining.
Racism is not politics (although some try to make it a political issue) and after more than a week, the people in need are now receiving help. It *was* in very poor taste for everyone to start the finger pointing and blaming while families were still trapped in their attics.
GZ, we don't seem to be talking about the same topic. I fail to see how anything you said relates to hurricane Katrina and racism. If you wish to talk about a new topic (most likely just more bitching about how much you hate President Bush), I suggest you start a new thread.
-Dan
posted by photodan at 08:06 A.M. EST on Wed Sep 14, 2005 #
How much more stupid can they get?
"It may have been blown up to destroy the black part of town and keep the white part dry."
The whole damn town in in a bowl basically, how are you going to flood one area and keep the water out of others?
THE SAD THING IS THERE ARE THOSE THAT WILL BELIEVE THIS GARBAGE.
Scum like Jackson Sharton and Farakon want to foment unrest, without it they might have to WORK for a living.
posted by JeepMaker at 08:19 P.M. EST on Wed Sep 14, 2005 #
"Here's a very good contrary opinion in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette on the response time."
Jack Kelly?! Are you kidding me?
This guy is one of the biggest GOP shill/stooges out there. I read his columns in the Blade every Saturday. They are always filled with dubious citations of 'anonymous' military personnel and usually taken out of context, distorted and downright faked facts that have been repeated throguh the GOP media spin machine until people think they're true, and, no matter what, they never ever ever paint a picture in sync with reality.
If you're reading and quoting that guy, you need to wake up. He a partisan hack.
posted by timault at 08:36 P.M. EST on Wed Sep 14, 2005 #
AC: He's not polyicizing it. He's talking about the people who are. At least that's the way I see it.
Timault: WTF do you think EVERYONE who 'contributes' to the Block Empire-er, ah..I mean, his papers -is? They're ALL partisan hacks. Oh, yeah, I forgot...all the others are rabidly LEFT-wing. Jesus. Enjoy the Kool-Aid.
posted by Foolkiller at 09:44 P.M. EST on Wed Sep 14, 2005 #
People criticizing Katrina are either ignorant of facts or cold and heartless.....most likely cold and heartless. There are logistical considerations to be overcome in any deployment like this....believe it or not, it takes at least a couple days to mobilize the national guard. Remember that up until three days before Katrina hit New Orleans every projection had it hitting the Florida panhandle. Even if Bush had known that the hurricane were going to hit New Orleans a week before he couldn't have deployed the National Guard. That's completely up to the governor, and Blanco told him flat out that she wanted control of the Louisiana National Guard (see this week's Newsweek). He could have federalized New Orleans and sent active duty troops, but can you imagine the response by Jackson/Sharpton and the other wackos if Bush had sent combat ready troops into a black city? Inevitably several looters would have been shot, and Kanye West would have actually had some basis for his comments.
There's no way to expect that the government could have evacuated New Orleans and the 150 miles on either side of new Orleans in a matter of two days. Too many people, too little time, and not enough equipment to do it.
Katrina was a natural disaster of epic proportions whose effects were compounded by a cascade of events. The deaths and destruction weren't caused by any one person. The same things would have happened no matter who was in the Oval Office.
posted by HeyHey at 10:17 P.M. EST on Wed Sep 14, 2005 #
Wise words, Hey.
posted by Foolkiller at 10:37 P.M. EST on Wed Sep 14, 2005 #
Tim, I haven't read his opinions frequently so I didn't prejudge what he wrote. What he said in that specific article makes a lot of sense, no matter which way he leans.
Well said, HeyHey.
-Dan
posted by photodan at 10:37 P.M. EST on Wed Sep 14, 2005 #
See Foolkiller, the problem is that the only day I read the Blade is on Saturday... it's part of my weekly routine... Saturday: unwind with coffee & Blade (quite honestly for the comics, crime map, religion section, and crossword). Most of my news I get from NPR, blogs, podcasts, and the fellows over at coldheartedtruth.com. Jack Kelly's column is in the Sat. edition (along with 1 or 2 rotating columnists that aren't very good writers. Jack is a good writer, but he tends to use factoids that have some truth, but he omits the details of the fact that completely disprove his viewpoint.
Don't be fooled (sorry for the play on words), I can smell the bias in that left-hand column a mile away... it reeks of social conservatism and crony politics. And, as a University fellow, I know how they've ridden UT over the years.
But I sooo love the crossword. Unlike the NYTimes one, I can finish this one.
posted by timault at 11:58 P.M. EST on Wed Sep 14, 2005 #
It *was* in very poor taste for everyone to start the finger pointing and blaming while families were still trapped in their attics.
Yet here you are politicizing the aftermath and discussing the politics of the aftermath.
Hey Photodan, they just rescued someone alive after 16 days:
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/special/05/katrina/3353135
IF IT WAS INAPPROPRIATE TO START THE FINGER-POINTING AND POLITICAL DISCUSSION WHILE PEOPLE WERE STILL TRAPPED IN THEIR ATTICS, THEN IT STILL IS NOW!
Photodan, maybe you should start your hypocritical day today with a big tall glass of shut-up juice. :) It does a body good.
Um. HeyHey, when it comes to the response to the hurricane, you forgot a few things:
A "senior Bush official" lied to the Washington Post and Newsweek -- this "senior Bush official" said that Blanco never declared a state of emergency, when in fact she did, and a quick visit to the Louisiana governor's web site would have verified she did so BEFORE the damn storm hit. If you want to argue that the "senior Bush official" did NOT lie, then the alternative is that a "senior Bush official" is DANGEROUSLY CLUELESS AND IGNORANT.
35% of the Louisiana National Guard is in... IRAQ! along with a lot more than 35% of their equipment.
The official in charge of the National Response Plan is DHS Secretary Chertoff. Who didn't give "Brownie" the ability to do anything until THIRTY-SIX HOURS after it hit. So, while Brownie's previous experience with the International Arabian Horse Assn. (from which he was FIRED) made him an obvious choice for head of FEMA, Chertoff dropped the ball as well... and Chertoff got his job by way of Bush, considering that Bush's first pick for SecDHS didn't pass, IIRC.
And while the Republicans are spinning madly about the lack of use of school busses in New Orleans, may I point out that at least in Ohio one requires a special endorsement to drive a school bus... so unless Nagin or someone higher up would declare the district's bus drivers as "essential personnel" (which he may not be able to do), the only option available when there aren't licensed/trained operators is to put unlicensed/inexperienced drivers in them. Which means the second there's a mishap with a bus, the attack lawyers would sue the district, the city, the driver, and anyone else they could think of. Nagin was in an unenviable fix anyhow -- if he ordered a mandatory evacuation sooner, and the storm died out or veered off, the businesses alone would crucify him over their lost revenue, and probably try to sue him and the city (hey, it has happened elsewhere).
I'll provide documentation to my claims upon request... but anyone with a brain ought to be able to turn them up with Google. Just don't add "site:foxnews.com", "site:newsmax.com", and "site:freerepublic.com" to your search terms
posted by anonymouscoward at 05:08 A.M. EST on Thu Sep 15, 2005 #
In Lucas County, school systems are critical partners in emergency plans for two reasons: 1) the ability to shelter individuals in gyms and 2) the ability to mobilize bus drivers for evacuations.
This is the same as in New Orleans. The lack of leadership at the local level and the lack of ability to implement their emergency plan (coupled with the lack of modifications to their plan after their last drill) contributed to the problem.
Contrast the mayor of New Orleans complaining and bemoaning the situation with Guiliani's comforting and confidence inspiring words four years ago. The role of the mayor was to reassure people, ask for calm and encourage people to help and protect their neighbors. He should have been asking for patience while reassuring his citizens that they were working to get things done, regardless of the reality of the situation.
Don't get me wrong, but imagine the difference if the mayor had said:
"We've been through a lot and there are people in need. We're doing everything we can - coordinating with the state and the federal government - to get assistance here as quickly as possible. We ask for your patience and assistant during these difficult times. Those who are able, please check on your neighbors - especially those who are older or may have children. Nature has delivered a terrible blow to our community, but together we will overcome this."
I can't help but believe that appealing to the good in all Americans would have done more to help the situation than complaining and cussing.
posted by intrepid at 10:23 A.M. EST on Thu Sep 15, 2005 #
Thanks for the laugh, AC. You're wrong and you're still whining.
My post is neither finger pointing nor politicizing. I do take immeasurable amounts of glee in noting that the rest of your post, however, *is* doing just that. You may want to refresh your understanding of the word hypocrite or for brevity just find a mirror.
I'll shut up when you decide to post something relevant and intelligent. (or when I get bored with beating you with your own words) For the record, I'm not worried.
-Dan
posted by photodan at 11:23 A.M. EST on Thu Sep 15, 2005 #
Excuse me, but I stated facts. :) You're the one making facts out to be politics. :)
posted by anonymouscoward at 02:03 P.M. EST on Thu Sep 15, 2005 #
Photodan, even an idiot eventually realizes his cause is lost. I'm waiting for you to realize yours.
I'm tempted to use smaller words to make it easier for you to follow along. But let's follow some logical progression instead:
1. Bush's culture involves corporatizing and militarizing America.
2. A corporate and militant culture expressly violates the poor.
3. Disproportionately many Blacks are poor.
4. The conclusion is obvious: Bush's culture assaults Blacks.
5. FURTHERMORE ... since it's "obvious", the Neo-Cons CERTAINLY know what they're doing, and they know WHO they're hurting. Thus, it's racism.
DUH. That only took about 18 seconds to spell out, Danny Boy.
You can avoid these truths all day in your failure to condemn the clearly incompetent Bush -- as well as all the vicious wealth backing him and the rest of the Neo-Cons -- but the facts are against you, regardless of the vehemence spewed daily by America's appointed Propaganda Czar, Rush Limbaugh. Bush and the Congress completely defrauded America by pounding the pulpit about needing massive funding for war and disaster preparedness, yet when put to the test (i.e. Katrina) the latter failed clearly and miserably. (The former is an even more clear failure, but that's a discussion for another time.)
To tell the truth some more, the many tests of airport security SINCE the 911 adjustments illustrate that they were also another fraud. The airports are literally no more safer than they were on 2001 Sep 10th. Significant weapons can still be smuggled onto passenger aircraft. The so-called changes are pointless -- except when you need to put an eco-activist on a no-fly list.
This brings up an essential point about 911 that's worth making at this point. It was used as an excuse to exert the Neo-Con agenda upon AMERICA, not just the Middle East. BOTH liberty and fairness would have to be restricted in order to achieve a militarist corporate state. And so, along those lines, the Neo-Con agenda involves basically watching Blacks die off from disease and injuries (no health insurance, remember?), as well as from war wounds (from a poor economy tempting enlistments) and natural disasters. You see, the corporate nature of such a nation would require the recognition that such people are liabilities, hence some method must be found to get rid of the liabilities. Some method ... or Final Solution.
At any rate, the only places where natural disasters will be properly responded to are wealthy or influential places like NYC, Washington DC, Martha's Vineyard, and select portions of the California coastline. This is Bush's America, and is what those evil little people have been designing since the Reagan Administration.
Like I said, deny it all you want, but the 100s of thousands displaced from NO (the majority of which we note are Black) only demonstrate Republican policy in America today. And as such, you have the best of government support if you are wealthy, White and corporate. But the poor, Black individuals are in a clear and present danger ... from the terrorists inhabiting the Congress, the White House, and practically every boardroom across America.
Now stick all that in your propaganda pipe and smoke it, Danny Boy. As Bush Apologists go, you don't even rate ... so don't quit your day job.
posted by GuestZero at 12:48 A.M. EST on Sat Sep 17, 2005 #
Why is it so hard to believe that the slow response by the Government-especailly this government was racially motivated? It was.Period. It is so easy for white people to dismiss people of color and claim they are using the "race card".... It is hard for us white folks to realize just how much privilage-unearned privilage that is- we get in our society just because we are white-but everyday we step out side we are ahead of the game because of the color of our skin-It took me a while to realize how different my life is because I'm considered white-(I'm also native American-but looking at me you consider me caucasian only.) Telling white people they have unearned privilage in our society usually gets their panties in a wad especailly you white boys-but I don't care- it is true and we white folks need to realize it-
posted by divamom26 at 02:03 P.M. EST on Mon Sep 19, 2005 #
divamom26, the folks in New Orleans have been through ENOUGH...people as Jesse Jackson have a HISTORY of using RACE as an opportunity...he has made comments stating the response to Katrina was "racially motivated"
It is being done again...by this Farrakhan...
there is NO WAY it was PLANNED to FLOOD ONLY ONE SECTION IN NEW ORLEANS...the WHOLE CITY sits below sea level...
Again, I repeat...what more NEEDS to be SAID...BUSCH has taken FULL RESPONSIBILITY for the RESPONSE TIME...
posted by MARIELORA at 03:16 P.M. EST on Mon Sep 19, 2005 #
Your nutts if you think race had anything to do with the response time. It was simply the biggest natural disaster this country has ever seen and it took some time to figure out what was going on and what to do about it. We got slammed and didn't expect it. Race has nothing to do with it.
posted by Kmorgan at 07:18 P.M. EST on Mon Sep 19, 2005 #
I don't understand why guestzero is sooo grumpy
posted by lloyd at 08:50 P.M. EST on Mon Sep 19, 2005 #
GW blew it in appointing political cronies to run FEMA. It would not have mattered what color the people were in this disaster. FEMA was not up to the job, period. When people of color use the "race card" they do themselves a great disservice. It moves the focus away from the underlying causes of poverty and disengagement from full participation in american society. The breakdown of the family in black society has to be addressed. Then whites would have no excuse for the illegitimate prejudices they privately hold and subtly practice
posted by holland at 09:52 P.M. EST on Mon Sep 19, 2005 #
Aren't we being a little hard on the people and the clean up efforts. One of the biggest most popular cities in the country was ruined over night, not to mention all the other cities and towns along that border. The ones that nobody seems to ever mention. It's a huge task for anybody, anywhere in the world.
posted by Kmorgan at 10:23 P.M. EST on Mon Sep 19, 2005 #
Kmorgan, can you spell "Bush Administration apologist"? No? Well, you are one, so you should learn to spell it.
Do you remember something important that happened on Sep. 11th of 2001? Once having achieved that feat of memory, do you recall anything about what happened around America after that? Do you remember anything about disaster-preparedness funding? What about alert levels? Biowarfare and nuclear response? What about evacuation plans? Is any of this ringing any bells in that head of yours?!?!
The points I'm clearly making here are that:
1) YOU, the dumb*ssed American taxpayer, have been tapped to pay for billions in disaster response ...
2) ... that FAILED in the aftermath of Katrina.
It's hardly even worth mentioning, since it's so obvious. But it's more than that. MORE DAMNING:
We had plenty of warning that Katrina was coming and would threaten NO. Still, Federal assets that YOU PAID FOR did not respond to the disaster in time.
But it's yet even more than that. MORE DAMNING:
Levee funding was significantly cut in the Bush Administration, hence threatening the city, hence the lives of tens of thousands of people, and the wealth of 100s of thousands.
Those facts are indisputable ... which is why you Cons don't mention them, and attempt to sweep it all away with LIES like "there's nothing that anyone could do" and "nobody knew in advance".
It was the job for the Bush Administration to protect New Orleans. (Doubly so since Nagin's such a boob.) The city was filled with American citizens who had every right to expect and receive protection. But the administration and the Congress failed. They failed since a bunch of poor Blacks in a poor coastal city is beneath their notice.
HENCE THE RACISM. Racism is still racism even if it's institutionalized. It's as clear as your reluctance to take Bush (and likely the Republican-dominated Congress) to task for anything.
I stand by all my previous statements. If a tsunami hits a wealthy, White Connecticut city, the disaster response will spring into action since Mr. Stockholder and Mrs. Whitebread would be in danger. But the poor, primarily Black folks along the Southern coasts are ON THEIR OWN.
P.S. Why these folks pay their taxes is beyond me. The South needs to secede again, since this whole "union" thing is definitely not working. Of course, to be fair, the affected states are "collector" states -- they obtain more than 1 dollar in Federal benefits for each dollar in Federal taxes paid. In 2003 figures, they got back: Alabama $1.69, Louisiana $1.47, and Mississippi $1.83. So perhaps I DO know why they pay their taxes. :^P
P.P.S. Reopening New Orleans is the most stupid thing I've seen this year. Now is the perfect time to abandon a clear liability for the US taxpayer. Various port facilities can remain open but there's no need to rebuild a city of 500K people around it. The area can return to being shifting wetlands that protect the rest of the inlands. The river can wander the delta as it must.
posted by GuestZero at 12:01 A.M. EST on Tue Sep 20, 2005 #
GuestZero, here are some more facts:
"In December 1995, long before the presidency of George W. Bush, the Orleans Levee Board, a local government agency in charge of the construction and maintenance of floodgates and levees, stated in a Times-Picayune article that state officials had obtained over $60 million in flood control funding. This money was intended to fund the launch of a $140 million flood-control campaign including 41 separate projects. The board promised New Orleans residents that the “few manageable gaps” in the levee system would be “sealed within four years, completing our circle of protection.” "
"A few months later, the Levee Board was mired in a scandal regarding the violation of a number of state bidding laws. Legislative Auditor Dan Kyle was quoted in the Times-Picayune that he had "repeatedly faulted the Levee Board for the way it awards contracts, spends money and ignores public bid laws.” "
"Kyle further stated that the board was nearing bankruptcy and should not be allowed to refinance any bonds or issue new ones until an acceptable plan for reaching solvency had been submitted. This blatant mismanagement of funds resulted in the levee board being unable to spend the matching federal funds and thus the projects lay dormant."
"In 1998 the Louisiana government had a $2 billion construction budget but only $1.98 million of that money was earmarked for flood control projects. During that same period however, the state was able to spend $22 million to build a new State Supreme Court facility and $35 million on an expansion of the New Orleans Convention Center."
"In 1999, the Louisiana Legislature appropriated $49.5 million for improvements to the levee system, but the State Bond Commission gave the projects a “Priority Five” ranking, grouping it with minor projects that had little chance of getting full funding."
Is it true that Louisiana is the most corrupt state in the country?
GuestZero boldly claims:
"It was the job for the Bush Administration to protect New Orleans."
You cannot be serious. How can you say that with a straight face? I didn't realize W. built New Orleans. I'm assuming the city of New Orleans has existed for more than five years, right?
If it's up to the feds to protect a city, what in the hell is the point of state and local governments? Those levees should have been repaired or upgraded 20+ years ago. Someone close to the levees said it would take a billion dollars and 20 years to upgrade the levees to withstand a category five hurricane. You think you can just run to Home Depot and pick up some wood and pipe and have the project completed in a weekend?
Nearly 90% of black voters in the U.S. vote for a Democrat in every presidential election. The mayors of New Orleans have been Democrats for years. The governor of Louisiana is a Democrat. So who has failed who here? You're living in the bizzaro world if you think only Republicans are to blame for not having the levees upgraded 20 years ago.
posted by jr at 12:52 A.M. EST on Tue Sep 20, 2005 #
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b251/Foolkiller/looterbeer.jpg
posted by Foolkiller at 06:18 A.M. EST on Tue Sep 20, 2005 #
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b251/Foolkiller/moonbatboy1.jpg
posted by Foolkiller at 06:19 A.M. EST on Tue Sep 20, 2005 #
The liberals are enough to make you lose your lunch. Bottom line, there is plenty of blame to go around. The Mayor, never issued orders to use all those buses that ended up just sitting in that parking lot and getting flooded. It has been estimated that those buses could have evacuated over 16000 people.
People like Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton, and Barak Obama are the black people's woorst ennemies. With all ther retoric they make black people believe that no matter what happens, you can always blame whitey. Even if YOU are to blame, blame whitey. Until people take responsibility for themselves they will never be self sufficient.
posted by JeepMaker at 05:15 P.M. EST on Tue Sep 20, 2005 #
Actually guestzero I was serving in the United States Navy when 911 happened. What were you doing? Obviously watching the news collecting fun facts to bad mouth the government. Sorry I didn't have time to do all that, I was just a little busy protecting your freedom. I'll still stand by what I said about Hurricane Katrina.
What do you want the people were told that a major hurricane was coming. they should have left. They chose to ignore it. Do you think the Bush administration should have gone to their houses and drag them out before the hurricane came?
An entire city was destroyed over night, not just any city New Orleans. Can you fathom how serious that is?
posted by Kmorgan at 07:26 P.M. EST on Tue Sep 20, 2005 #
Kmorgan-again your whitness is showing-many of the people could not leave because they did not own cars and had no way of leaving!....these people were mainly black-how the hell where they suppose to get out-?...The response was slow because the GOVERNMENT was not prepared.....but why-after 911 we have this whole new homeland security thing and what help were they?.....Race did play a major part ,as guestzero said-it is called institutional racism-the Buch Administration did not move quickly because these people are beneath them in their minds....white america needs to wake up-and realize that we are still a very racist nation-
posted by divamom26 at 02:33 P.M. EST on Wed Sep 21, 2005 #
I truly believe, when everything is said and done in terms of studies/commissions/evaluations, that the record will show that a complete lack of implementation of the LOCAL plan along with delay at the state level is what led to the significant numbers of individuals being trapped, injured and killed in New Orleans.
If Bush was racist, what's the excuse for the Mayor and Governor of New Orleans?
posted by intrepid at 02:57 P.M. EST on Wed Sep 21, 2005 #
On HBO's Real Time last Friday night one of the guests correctly pointed out the primarily white parishes around NO were not given any better treatment than the primarily black parishes. It was an equal opportunity screw-up.
The local and state officials need to take some responsibility. In the past they would have had National Guard troops to help get people out of the way. (We know where most of them are but I digress.)
Having said that Bush took a prime time slot last week and took responsibility for the federal government failures.
Bush's direct failure, IMHO, was the appointment of "Brownie" to the head of FEMA. He simply was not qualified to run this agency. Send your friends and political cronies off to be Ambassador of Lichtenstein or some such thing if you need to.
Add to that the comment of Michael Chertoff of Homeland Security on Meet the Press two Sundays ago, "I opened the paper on Tuesday and the headline said New Orleans dodged the bullet." The director of Homeland Security gets his info from the paper?!
Adding insult to injury is the huge amount of money Bush has since earmarked for hurricane relief. There isn't any accountability I can find and since my taxes are paying for it I would like to know how it is being handled.
posted by thinkingwoman at 06:02 P.M. EST on Wed Sep 21, 2005 #
oops - Mayor of New Orleans and Governor of Louisiana
posted by intrepid at 06:02 P.M. EST on Wed Sep 21, 2005 #
Kmorgan-again your whitness is showing-many of the people could not leave because they did not own cars and had no way of leaving!....
My whiteness is showing? So reading what you wrote. all black people in New Orleans are poor and don't have cars and that's the Bush Administration's fault, right? They made a law or something that said all the blacks In New Orleans had to be poor and can't own cars?
Here's a question what about the non blacks in New Orleans? Why don't we hear about them? I'm sure there are plenty of non-blacks who are going through the same thing. You don't really hear about them because they don't stand on TV and say it's because I'm white and if they did what journalist would try to make spectacle out of that.
posted by Kmorgan at 12:00 A.M. EST on Thu Sep 22, 2005 #
The local and state officials need to take some responsibility.
And so do the residents of NO themselves. I recall that there were a lot of complaints about the lack of food and water in the Superdome. Why on earth did people go into that shelter without supplies? I have an aunt and a sister who both live in hurricane prone areas (my aunt's home is in Rita's projected path right now). Every year, at the start of the hurricane season, they assemble no less than two weeks of food, water and any other supplies they may need. And they take those supplies with them no matter where they choose to ride out the storm.
I remember seeing someone on the news complaining because someone in his family was diabetic and needed insulin. Hello? You went to a shelter without insulin? WHY? You're going to need that insulin regardless of where you are when the storm hits... so why you don't you have it??
It is absolutely terrible what happened to NO. But most of the people (with the exception of tourists who couldn't get out) are quite familiar with hurricanes, and there is no excuse for not planning ahead to the degree that they could.
posted by valbee at 06:56 A.M. EST on Thu Sep 22, 2005 #
valbee, you stated "the residents need to take some responsibility"...
What NEEDS to be STRESSED...SAID residents, have rarely taken responsibility with their lives...
One interview stands out...resident said to the newscaster, "I can't leave, my WELFARE check arrives on the First of the MONTH, I have NO MONEY, I have to stay"...my opinion, this resident CHOSE to stay...
These residents believe it is the GOVERNMENTS responsibility, duty, to TAKE CARE of them with transportation, food, water...they WILL depend on the government to provide their NEW HOME...which...the government (yours and my tax dollars) WILL!!!
My opinion only...it was very HONORABLE of President Busch to assume all RESPONSIBILITY...we have HEARD so much of SLOW RESPONSE...was it Louisana, New Orleans...President Busch has said it was HIS responsibility...was it??? I don't KNOW...but, I feel it says alot about him as a person...he is taking all the BLAME...just wants to rebuild New Orleans for these RESIDENTS will have a home.
posted by MARIELORA at 09:01 A.M. EST on Thu Sep 22, 2005 #
The following link is a Story of One Family from New Orleans...who is trying to make a NEW LIFE in Boise, Idaho...who is actually stating...they are grateful for all the help and KNOW they have to figure out a way to stand on their own two feet!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9429413/
posted by MARIELORA at 10:05 A.M. EST on Thu Sep 22, 2005 #
valbee,
There you go with that personal responsibility, self reliance, and common sense kinda stuff ;-)
We want clueless victims, wailers and whiners.
We NEED them to need our help.
You are so, so, so logical about this reoccurring crisis :-)
Your attitude has left almost speechless! Almost…
I’d like to say to you:
Amen!
:-)
posted by Hooda_Thunkit at 11:58 A.M. EST on Thu Sep 22, 2005 #
Kmorgan-Most of the black people who live n New Orleans are poor, NOT ALL,only the majority!-saying that they should have left when they were told to ,you assummed that they could leave and had the means to leave-many could not.You are thinking about things though your white privilaged eyes ,not like someone who is poor and of color....their world is not ours Kmorgan!
AND Valbee-you take the cake! You wrote about people not having supplies when they went to the supperdome ..... that you have relatives who live in a hurricane zone and they always stock up?-it is good that they can stock up for two weeks,I'm happy for them- BUt many of the people hit by Katrina did not have the money to stockup for two weeks-they live day to day-again I say your white privilage is showing-you assume people are like you-they are not- For People of color and the poor the world is a much harsher place. ANd as far as medicine-do you know that many meds have to be refrigerated. I have a friend who was in this situation-his meds went bad.
The government Bush's government failed us and I don't give a damn about Bush taking reponsibility-That is what he should have done-There was nothing HONORABLE about him taking responsibility-To me honor is when you do something above and beyond the call of duty-He has told the American People over and over how much safer we are since 911 and the truth is we are not-the only ones better off are his rich white friends-One of the first things he did was to make an executive declaration to make sure his buddies coming in to rebuild did not have to pay the local wage!(Which was just above the povery level anyway).... OH yeah-he really cares about ALL Americans-PLEASE-just look at what his moma said about the evacuees being better of now because"They were underprivilaged anyway"....what a cold hearted and stupid thing to say. But she is thinking through the eyes of someone who comes from the white privilagd world. Ans she really believes this!-The Bush Dynasty and this administration have made us less safe and the majority of us poorer-
posted by divamom26 at 01:14 P.M. EST on Thu Sep 22, 2005 #
divamom26, I had said it was "HONORABLE" of President Busch to take responsibility of the "WHOLE MESS"...as...BLAME WAS PASSED AROUND...I felt President Busch thought... JUST BLAME ME and let's CLEAN UP New Orleans...
Just because...he is the President, does NOT necessarily mean evacuating New Orleans was HIS RESPONSIBILITY...
Those who CLAIM THE RESPONSE TIME WAS RACIALLY MOTIVATED...are NOT helping the situation in New Orleans or the PEOPLE of New Orleans...AT ALL...
posted by MARIELORA at 04:06 P.M. EST on Thu Sep 22, 2005 #
Divamom you haven't been paying attention. The evacuation plan for N.O. says right in it that public and private buses may be used for those with no other means of transport. The mayor never issued the order to use them, they sat there in the parking lot and got flooded. Tell me how that is the fault of racism? That is the fault of stupidity.
posted by JeepMaker at 04:28 P.M. EST on Thu Sep 22, 2005 #
AND Valbee-you take the cake! You wrote about people not having supplies when they went to the supperdome ..... that you have relatives who live in a hurricane zone and they always stock up?-it is good that they can stock up for two weeks,I'm happy for them- BUt many of the people hit by Katrina did not have the money to stockup for two weeks-they live day to day-again I say your white privilage is showing-you assume people are like you-they are not- For People of color and the poor the world is a much harsher place. ANd as far as medicine-do you know that many meds have to be refrigerated. I have a friend who was in this situation-his meds went bad.
Divamom, that's why you stock up at the beginning of the season. Pick up an extra loaf of bread when it's on sale and stick it in the freezer. It might not be the freshest bread when you get into it, but it's better than starving. Stock up on canned goods when they're marked down and set aside a one or two for your emergency kit. Wash out empty milk jugs and fill them with water. How hard is that?
My boyfriend is diabetic, btw. When he goes camping, he puts his insulin in a small styrofoam cooler with frozen water bottles. They last a good long time because the cooler is designated for his meds (which means it's not frequently opened) and the milk jugs take a long time to thaw.
And don't talk to me about living day to day. I spent three years on welfare. I've lived day to day. I'm living paycheck to paycheck now. And because I've been poor, I know that you absolutely need to plan ahead for what comes down the pike. My sister and her husband who live in SC have five kids and one income. They manage to stock up on needed supplies as well - without the benefit of food stamps or WIC. It can be done, if the parties involved TRY.
And since when can you tell the color of someone's skin by the way they type?
posted by valbee at 04:49 P.M. EST on Thu Sep 22, 2005 #
divamom, you don't know me. Do you know what the Ottawa Cove apartments are on Suder. Let me tell you my white friend. It's welfare housing. That's where my unfortunate poor black and white friends live and where I spent half my childhood. I know how it is, and I'm telling you, that you do not. The only reason this race thing is even around is because of a few ignorant blacks and journalist trying to make money. What about poor whitey? Most of the people I've seen on the news are white, but a racism story where whites are the victim don't really seem to work. Hell, what about the rest of the coast? Places like Pascagoula. You don't here about those places because it doesn't sell as good as New Orleans.
Where did you get this statistic about cars? Can blacks buy bus tickets down there? I guess all their families are poor without cars too. So nobody could go pick them up. Or maybe they just thought they could ride it out and lost their home that the government already gave them and now they want to bitch that nobody's helping them. I want to say that I have black family, which I love dearly and I'm not a racest. I'm just telling it how it is.
posted by Kmorgan at 02:59 A.M. EST on Fri Sep 23, 2005 #
KMorgan-you may not be racist but you are prejudice-I did not give statistics about cars-I 'm only stating what I read-and yes of course there are poor white people-and what's with the comment about the government already giving them a home?........I know lots of white people in welfare housing,my family included-what does that have to do with anything I said?...
ANd Valbe it is not how you type it is your words that give you away-you assume,...you think that folks think like you and live like you....Again I'll bet your nice SC family is white and that my friend makes a differece in life wether or not you choose to believe it-We white folks, even "POOR WHITEY", are better of than black folks because we don't have the race hurdle to jump over in addition to poverty-I too have stories about how my poor family worked their ass off ...but again we were ahead of the game from the start because we are white-Why is it so hard for "WHities" to admitt we have an advantage over people of color-I hear peoplesay that racism is still alive.. but then what?.....what the hell do you think racisim is/....ANd hell yes people use it as an exucuse....but please do not give me the "OH I was poor and workd my ass off "...speech..in the end you are still white!
Now back to you Kmoran-what news station are you watching-I saw VERY FEW WHITE PEOPLE at the Superdome and other parts of the really badly hit parts of NO-that is what alarmed me so much- But both the white and black people I did see did seem to be poor-I've been at the shelters here where I live in a neighboring state. At one shelter there were NO white families and we had over 400 people . At another there were maybe a dozen families and I can tell you that your words are bull-many of these peole owned their homes and have not been on WELFARE and did not wwnat to now become a stereo type - ANd many did take public tranportation becaue they did not own cars-- Why did you assume this welfare shit-where are YOU getting your info?..DId you assume this because they are black?- that my friend is prejudice.
posted by divamom26 at 01:56 P.M. EST on Fri Sep 23, 2005 #
Kmorgan-Most of the black people who live n New Orleans are poor, NOT ALL,only the majority!-saying that they should have left when they were told to ,you assummed that they could leave and had the means to leave-many could not.You are thinking about things though your white privilaged eyes ,not like someone who is poor and of color....their world is not ours Kmorgan!
This is what you said DIVAMOM. Do you see where I got the welfare thing. So I guess these blacks are poor homeowners who don't own a car. Must be a common thing down there. Tell me, how many homeowners do you know that don't own a car? I don't know any. In fact all my friends on welfare except two, own cars, in fact even their kids own cars. Guess what, those friends that don't own cars know somebody who does.
You're definitely right about one thing. Blacks have a racial hurdle to jump, and whites do not. As a result, we as in our nation (people like you), want to feel sorry for blacks every time something happens. It's true that they do deserve sympathy in some cases, and other times they are playing whats called the racial car. You have to figure out which is which. In this case it's either believe A: the government said "who cares just a bunch of blacks we'll get there when we get there," or B: believe that this was the biggest natural catastrophy this country has ever seen on top of that there was that surprise levy give out (which wasn't supposed to happen and accounts for most of the damage). We just weren't ready. Plus the people even the mayor ignored the warnings because they thought they could ride it out with no problem, and probably would have had that levy not given away.
Don't call me prejudice. I'm not what you would call prejudice. I simply call things how I see it. Understand that I'm not saying all blacks play the racial card. Just a few and that's all it takes for the news to make a frenzy out of it. If whites could do it, you better belive they would too. Regardless of race or gender there is always somebody who is going to try to get what they can out of a situation. They tried to ride the storm out, it didn't work, now it's George W Bush's fault. How much sense does that make.
posted by Kmorgan at 03:07 P.M. EST on Fri Sep 23, 2005 #
The facts are facts, they say. Let the President be judged by what he does. If you believe he is a caring person, then you have that right. If you believe he is uncaring, you have that right. I will say this. Any attempt to portray the mess in Louisiana on racism, will blow back in the Democrats faces. It would be much more truthful to state that the poor and the disenfranchised, get much less attention in America than the wealthy.That is the truth.There's no getting out of that one.Take a look at some of these links. Make up your own mind how much the Republican leadership "cares". http://www.ooze.com/finger/bush-finger.mov
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/22/AR2005092202255.html http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/16/opinion/16krugman.html?ex=1284523200&en=f0bab57c6ae5de2b&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss http://money.cnn.com/2005/09/08/news/economy/katrina_wages.reut/
posted by Bbcmjeep43 at 04:49 P.M. EST on Sat Sep 24, 2005 #
No leadership anywhrere cares. Why do you think they would or should. They are just like a big business in that sense. They are running a country. As individuals they probably do care, but as a collective they don't. They just do what they decide is best. If they made decisions based on emotion rather than logic, I'd hate to see what would happen.
If it's one thing politicians do care about it's their careers, and saying screw it they're black, doesn't help their career out at all. i think they are smart enough to figure that out.
posted by Kmorgan at 05:21 P.M. EST on Sat Sep 24, 2005 #
I believe that the top leadership should care, and care deeply, about their own country, and all the people in it. I never asked for decisions to be based on emotions.They should be based on reason and factual information. And also, by what is best for our own country. Not what is best for their biggest campaign contributors. It is actually very politically important to show you "care". Whether you do or not is another story.
posted by Bbcmjeep43 at 05:50 P.M. EST on Sat Sep 24, 2005 #
Your right Bbcmjeep, and as individuals they do care but as a collective they do not.
posted by Kmorgan at 08:59 P.M. EST on Sat Sep 24, 2005 #
Actually, I believe that both republicans and democrats "care" but they have different ways of showing it - and it goes back to their philosophies which probably led to them being republicans and democrats in the first place.
IMHO, republicans show they care by helping people help themselves - they're much more likely to give their own money (talking primarily local level here as there isn't much difference from a national perspective on this one), time and talents to help others.
Democrats show they care by getting classes or segments of people dependent upon them - they're much more likely to give away YOUR money (read "tax dollars") whenever there is a financial need.
Please note - I'm generalizing here - there are always exceptions. And I'm willing to give examples of this opinion, if requested...
So - how are WE judging the caring nature of those in charge? Are we judging them by what they do with OUR tax dollars or by what action they take personally? As with any "test," the criteria determine the action.
posted by intrepid at 03:26 P.M. EST on Sun Sep 25, 2005 #
K morgan many of the people I met did not need cars because they lived in a community where you walk-like in parts of NYC.....and their kids rode buses to school-the another thing overlooked ,even if you do own a car and can leave-many could not afford the hotels-here were I live the hotels-being the nice people they are doubled even trippled the prices-how sick is that!...I am a school teacher and I can not afford a stay in a hotel these days-the ecomomy sucks-used to be I could take my 2 kids on vacation every year even as a single parent-but not now-if I was told to "leave town"-between gas prices and having to pay for a hotel-well we would be living in the car-I just don't think it is right to "assume" what people can and can not do when we are things money-ONE major catastrophy in my life and I am flat on my ass-it happened to me n the 90's. I checked my numbers too- we took in 1500 at the shelter-reason I thought there was less is because most were out during the day looking for work-the shelter kept a record of that-infact we held a job fare and hired several in my school district- All african American-I asked them why they did not leave-for some it was money, others no car-and some thought it would just be OK.....several sent their children on ahead and stayed and now thery are sorry-the ones I met who stayed at the superdome-there stories-well nightmare is too kind of a word-one of the major mishaps was the release of the a segment of the prison population that ended up at the superdome-and according to those I spoke with this cause the majority of problems right from the start and then things went doen hill as the days passed without food and water...it must have been hell....
I think most in office forget about the common man -i don't care what party they belong to....but they are Public Servants and should care sbout the Public no matter what class,race etc....only in a perfect world though...adn WELFARE is nothing but a big codependent cesspool....it should never be a way of live....it was never ment to be...I lost my job to illness one year-didn't qualify for shit and really had it rough-would have been nice to have had a helping hand that year-but I had disability insurence that carried over-only $900 a month-plus I had to keep up my health insurence-I qualified for NOTHING because that $900 was too much...the system makes it so that you don't even want to work!....I had to let my kids and me be without insureance for a year-let the bills pill up AND then it was "COme on down".....I did not do that. SOme would maybe but I did not. I really do not think people want a hand out-your self esteem goes right in the shitter...help people "transition" give them a time limit-then if they don't get ontheir feet-"see ya latter"....but god no-it should not be a way of life-that helpd no-one
posted by divamom26 at 07:19 P.M. EST on Sun Sep 25, 2005 #
Huh? Your saying they released prisoners into the Superdome?
posted by jeepgal at 12:07 A.M. EST on Mon Sep 26, 2005 #
Divamom, welfare is not a meant t be a way of life but it is. My friend's mom who is on welfare adopted two more kids from her brother, just so she could stay on welfare and she said to have a nice christmas that year. So my views on welfare are a little different. Oh and on top of that she raised the kids into little hoodlums, runnig around screaming F this and F that from the day they learned how to talk, in fact she encourages the behavior by laughing about it.
Obviously, not everybody on welfare is like that, but beware they are out there. I've seen it first hand.
Now those people in New Orleans may not have been able to afford a hotel but most of them probably have family or some other means of escape. Again, they put themselves in the position they are in. It's a shitty deal but It's nobody elses fault, that's for sure. I have friends who grew up on welfare and unfortunately seem like they will never get off it, the sad part is that they know what they are choosing, and they know what they have to do to get off welfare. It's just "too hard" for them, and that's just pitiful. So tell me about my whiteness and how I don't understand again.
posted by Kmorgan at 02:03 A.M. EST on Mon Sep 26, 2005 #
No welfare is not meant to be a way of life you are so right-but what do you mean "they put themselves in the position they are in"....?again I say that because we are white we do not have to jump over the race hurdle and that makes it easier for us-the people I met who did not leave trusted the government-did you hear the latest that the Feds told many homeowners a while back that they did not need flood insurence because the levys were fine?.....I still maintain that evacuating costs money. And every poor person of color on welfare is there because they want to be....that is a stereo type-and prejudice to assume this. Many of my students come from families who work hard-and still can not make ends meet- In fact,for me to evacuate-(and I'm a public school teacher)-it would have been very hard because of the cost-I just do not like to make general statements about a whole group of people- When you say "THEY"....who do you mean? and again you say "most of them probably have family or some other means of escape"....again you assume this,but you do not know this....so that is why I say your "whitness is showing"...Anyone can abuse the system and it matters not what color you are-Just look at Bush and all his wonderful tax breaks to his rich white buddies-talk about abuse! -
posted by divamom26 at 03:12 P.M. EST on Wed Oct 05, 2005 #
your hopeless divamom
they and them obviously refers to the flood victims of Katrina. You thought I was talking about blacks? maybe you need to evaluate yourself.
posted by Kmorgan at 03:34 A.M. EST on Thu Oct 06, 2005 #
Oh Kmorgan-I've been told that before-actually I am full of hope that one day we white folks will realize the truth-I am glad to know you meant the victims of Katrina- who do you think mostof them were?... majority that stayed and did not leave were.....black.....As I said before i saw this with my own eyes at the shelters and spoke with many of them-and if you think that their race had nothing to do with the slow repsonse time-then you too are hopeless-
just my opinion-but I believe in my gut that this is true,(the response time)BUsh could care less about poor people of color(poor poeple in general for that matter)
-and I have no problem with self evaluation-it is a good thing-As a teacher who's entire career has been in the inner city of a poor southern state-I've learned a lot about race relations-and they still suck-equal we are not!
posted by divamom26 at 08:40 A.M. EST on Thu Oct 06, 2005 #
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