Mike, I'm honestly not ragging on you, since you're certainly not the only one who posts about this stuff, but I personally am just sick to death of hearing & reading about Noes & Nazis. I have to admit, that idea is funny, though.
posted by Foolkiller at 06:41 P.M. EST on Thu Dec 01, 2005 #
No offense taken, Foolkiller. I fully expect to get as roundly criticized on this rally as the last one for "glorifying" the Nazis.
And, to be honest, a few intelligent criticisms from Toledoans is much, much better than the death threats and cyber-libel that some disturbed neo-Nazi and white supremacist types have been spewing at me.
To avoid overkill, I will just add on to this post. My phone, fax, and email have been going nuts in the past 24 hours as info is starting to leak out. Here is an update with some detailed info on the plans of the anti-Nazi coalition.
posted by historymike at 06:48 P.M. EST on Thu Dec 01, 2005 #
Maybe everyone will just stay home.
posted by AmericanPie at 08:48 P.M. EST on Thu Dec 01, 2005 #
AmericanPie
"Maybe everyone will just stay home."
Snowball's chance in Hell...
(But I secretly agree with you that staying home/away would put an end to the nazi shenanigans in Toledo once and for all.)
posted by Hooda_Thunkit at 09:11 P.M. EST on Thu Dec 01, 2005 #
Just like mom said "a few rotten apples ruin the batch" or "one person broke the rules, now everyone is punished".
Why don't we just shut down the entire city? Yeah, yeah...that makes sense....(my sarcasm hopefully is understood)
posted by lloyd at 10:32 P.M. EST on Thu Dec 01, 2005 #
I agree that the perfect scenario on December 10 is that two dozen Nazis shiver for two hours in the cold winds blowing off the Maumee.
With no one watching them but some bored police and even more bored media geeks like me. Better be some good wireless down there.
Unfortunately, that will not be the case.
For the people who have privately emailed me and urged me to "not give these idiots any more attention" and similar sentiments:
The mainstream media is largely ignoring the antifas again, and I think it is important that people understand the ramifications of what could transpire on December 10. Therefore, I will continue to report what I see on my blog and in the Free Press.
In October only Bob Frantz and I (from the media, at least) actually paid any attention to the danger that was looming ahead: things were looking very ugly, and had the potential for big trouble. Say what you want about Frantz (I know that quite a few posters here disliked him), but he nailed this one from the get-go.
From my seat, I see the pre-rally activity by both sides to be at a much higher level than before the October 15 rally.
Be advised, too, that Internet white power host Hal Turner is joining the Nazis in Toledo as a guest speaker. Turner, though possessing a relatively small audience, reaches enough people as to push the white supremacist contingent higher.
The good news is it looks like TPD has learned a ton from the first rally, as well as from the snoozer in Kingston NY on November 19. Their strategy seems to be to contain the rally in a small space with a larger buffer between the Nazis and counterprotesters.
There was a community forum at UT tonight that I spoke at (frigging UT projector was broken, so I could not show any photos). I'll blog about it tomorrow, but I think it was a useful event. Juanita Green, Mansour Bey, UT's Carter Wilson, Morris Jenkins, and Joelle Ruby Ryan were there.
But you know who wasn't there? The Toledo media. A near-complete news blockade, except for me and one writer from the Independent Collegian.
Must...get...sleep...
posted by historymike at 10:54 P.M. EST on Thu Dec 01, 2005 #
"Why don't we just shut down the entire city?"
The local politicians have been doing this for the last 15 years.
Since I don't watch the local news, and I haven't been listening to local radio, and I haven't had the time lately to read the Blade online, I hope historymike continues to post here and on his blog the latest info about what's going on with the nazee march. Those tired of it can simply ignore it.
posted by jr at 11:11 P.M. EST on Thu Dec 01, 2005 #
if we are all in such a hurry to kill eachother lets all throw a christmas party inviting the nazi's, al quida, and the black panthers, on second thought lets all just do something productive with our day other than give a bunch of fools the attention that their parents and one or two friends never gave them.
posted by MrToledo at 11:33 P.M. EST on Thu Dec 01, 2005 #
Sounds good.
posted by Foolkiller at 11:35 P.M. EST on Thu Dec 01, 2005 #
Whoops, sorry, MrToledo, I was referring to jr's last sentence. IMO, this has been rehashed enough, and I feel it's giving them more undeserved attention. But, if others want to keep talking about it, they can, by all means, feel free to do so.
posted by Foolkiller at 11:39 P.M. EST on Thu Dec 01, 2005 #
sigh...I agree with the Library closing. Given the already evidenced behavior of Toledoans not realizing that the way to handle such situations is to stay home? The Library is trying to be pro-active.
I'm sure that between the other libraries within walking distance and the other organizations that provide shelter for those who are homeless that the chance of any homeless/street people in Toledo being hurt by the closing will be diminished. It's being announced soon enough that there should be alternatives in place for those who need a warm place during the hours the library would have been open that Saturday.
Or? I'd suggest that some of the anti-nazi groups that seem so concerned about this closing actually do something positive and address that situation rather than the NSM.
:-)
posted by psyche777 at 01:05 A.M. EST on Fri Dec 02, 2005 #
MrToledo,
Sounds like a plan, but unfortunatly we are not allowed to have "Christmas" parties anymore.
posted by lloyd at 01:10 A.M. EST on Fri Dec 02, 2005 #
Lloyd,
Yes we are. I personally refuse to have a holiday tree, it is now and will ever be a Christams Tree. Despite the fact that I realize the tree has nothing to do with the origin of the day chosen to celebrate Christ's birthday?
It is a Christmas tree and? Christmas parties, anyone who doesn't want to participate? Doesn't have to.
:-)
posted by psyche777 at 01:48 A.M. EST on Fri Dec 02, 2005 #
good point lloyd i guess i will have to invite all of the hate groups to our happy honda days party
posted by MrToledo at 11:54 A.M. EST on Fri Dec 02, 2005 #
Personally, is it too much to hope that we have like an inch of freezing rain topped by six inches of snow that day?
Sorry.....I'd just like to see all those Nazi's and other protesters freeze their cahones off.....call it a day....and go get some hot chocolate or coffee. (I know -- pie in the sky thinking.)
posted by unknowncomment at 01:05 P.M. EST on Fri Dec 02, 2005 #
good jab MrToledo, you made me laugh...
Happy Holidays...I mean Honda-Days...I mean Christmas...
posted by lloyd at 02:45 P.M. EST on Fri Dec 02, 2005 #
We are all disqusted at the nazi's first, and upcoming visit. And I think most people can understand how that would enrage people. But I don't think it is the Nazi's that cost the city of Toledo so much money in security/losses. It is the fault of those who didn't have the self restraint to just stay home, and ignore them. I believe it is the fault of the Toledoans who rioted that cost this city so much money. I would hope they will show more restraint when the Nazi's return to Toledo, but I doubt they will. I don't know what more Toledo can do to convince them (angry Toledoans) to just ignore them and stay home, to not provide the Nazi's with an audience. Everybody I have heard from agrees that the Nazi's got exactly what they wanted, a riot, by the lack of restraint shown by Toledoans. So why don't these people 'get it' by now, and just stay home next time? Perhaps if the city of Toledo enforces a temporary curfew in the area where the Nazi's intend to march? But then Toledoans would be angry at their rights being obstructed. These angry Toledoans need to grow a thicker skin. We are ALL angry about the Nazi march (s). But we didn't all participate in a riot over it. Most Toledoans have more dignity than that.
posted by starling02 at 07:02 P.M. EST on Sun Dec 04, 2005 #
It's very frustrating, Starling02.
The rioting added to the costs, but Toledo would have been out $150-$200K regardless of whether there was rioting. Expect that figure to double this time around, as every available officer between here and Columbus will be dispatched.
The small town of Kingston NY spent $100K to keep the peace on November 19, when Internet podcast mouth Hal Turner had his march.
The best thing to do will be for Toledoans to stay away and give the neo-Nazis and white power types their two hours of time. Then they will claim "victory," go home, and have no reason to come back.
I think the location - downtown - is a much smarter idea. I also expect that police will prevent parking nearby, which should cut down on gawkers.
I hope that more people "get it," but there will inevitably be a couple of hundred who will not. Let's just hope that everything is peaceful; there are scattered indicators that some people may not share this desire for peace. I have had emails and posts on my blog from people hinting that things may not be quiet and violence-free.
posted by historymike at 07:38 P.M. EST on Sun Dec 04, 2005 #
When Lloyd thought, "Why don't we just shut down the entire city?", jr wrote, The local politicians have been doing this for the last 15 years.
I am not picking on JR or Lloyd by citing their prior posts, but rather, to put into context my personal experience. I left Toledo in the early 90's to pursue employment opportunities in Arizona. I came back in ~2001, and found that the city was somewhat less than it had been.
Toledo has already met one group of nazi pigs, and we gained national media attention as a result. It seems we are going to do so again on December 10th.
Some people see problems as problems. I see problems as opportunities.
Doesn't this seem to be a perfect opportunity for Toledo to set the bar for interactions such as this?
Here and now is a leadership opportunity for someone that desires it.
posted by AirTrainer at 10:01 P.M. EST on Sun Dec 04, 2005 #
"The rioting added to the costs, but Toledo would have been out $150-$200K regardless of whether there was rioting. Expect that figure to double this time around, as every available officer between here and Columbus will be dispatched."
This is purely the choice of the politicians, and the police union is eating it up like jam. When are Toledoans going to learn that the police take severe advantage of events like this? Like I said before, doesn't anyone remember the Tall Ships fiasco? The organizers then had apparently left security up to the cops, and wouldn't you know, the police then showed up in droves and charged an outrageous amount of overtime -- similar to the NSM demonstration.
I'm surprised that no one has suggested sending a pro-rated bill to each of the people arrested and convicted for their illegal activities during Oct 5th. Instead, people have suggested sending the bill to the NSM -- the only people who DIDN'T hit anybody or break things on Oct 15th.
This is a travesty. No wonder people are leaving Toledo. Who wants to be on the hook for expenses like this that all manner of special interests wants to impose on everyone?
posted by GuestZero at 01:32 P.M. EST on Mon Dec 05, 2005 #
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