Very, very cold out today, with the wind whipping in off the Maumee. The police kept this thing from even hinting at boiling over (sticking with the temperature metaphors).
Protesters were so far apart from the Nazis that there was never any serious attempt to disturb the peace.
The closet thing to a "situation" was when a woman named Molly Nolan identified herself as a Nazi supporter, and members of the protest crowd began to denounce her. Police quickly stepped in and escorted her away before anyone among the protesters could do anything stupid.
So far I have not heard of any of the hinted violence, like arson at abndoned houses. The police quickly sniffed out an antifa plot to "welcome" the Nazis at their hotel.
posted by historymike at 05:53 P.M. EST on Sat Dec 10, 2005 #
Hallelujah, it's finally over. Hope you enjoyed those numbing temps, Mike, I stayed nice and cozy inside. I said loooong ago there'd be absolutely nothing happening this time around. Too damned cold for any sort of rioting. I commend you for your diehard dedication, though.
posted by Foolkiller at 06:22 P.M. EST on Sat Dec 10, 2005 #
Amen, brother Foolkiller.
Nope, I hated the cold. There was absolutely no respite from it, in spite of the fact that I had three layers of clothing on.
The police completely shut down the antifa this time. They had superior intelligence, and I believe that they must have infiltrated some of the more radical groups or gotten wiretaps.
I got three calls tipping me off about antifa action before the rally, and the police had dispersed or arrested counter-demonstrators by the time I arrived at each.
When I went into the media pit, I got two more calls saying that antifa were completely shut down. There were a few developing plots to try and block the Nazis from coming into the rally area on Cherry Street that were immediately stymied by law enforcement.
They even arrested three teenagers in a car outside the Main Library about 3:30 PM. They had been denied entry into the rally because of metallic bullet-like studs on their clothing, and were sitting in their car thawing out (according to my source).
Of course, given the pre-rally publicity about libraries, and the downtown branch in particular, it is no surprise tht police had the libraries under such heightened surveillance.
posted by historymike at 09:04 P.M. EST on Sat Dec 10, 2005 #
Driving back Saturday afternoon from a swimming invitational in Napoleon, I heard the first update at 3:00 p.m. on WSPD. It sounded like the rally got started later than the scheduled 2:00. WSPD had at least five people covering the event. They reported about 50 NSM, 100-150 protesters, and possibly more media than the protesters, and of course hundreds of police. Similar things being said on historymike's blog.
WSPD also said the NSM's sound system sucked because they couldn't hear the NSM. The distance from the NSM and probably the wind were also factors. A WSPD reporter said the protesters actually quieted down so that the protesters could hear what the NSM were saying.
Sounds to me like the police did an awesome job. The pre-planning and intelligence gathering were spectacular. It doesn't appear anyone's free speech rights were violated, right? It seems everyone got a chance to yell their views. Just because the two sides couldn't do it face-to-face, and they couldn't hear each other is irrelevant.
WSPD mentiond two media people getting arrested because they went pass the border or the baricade. historymike's blog mentioned the arrest of a Toledo Journal photographer who went past the border because he was bumped.
Well, too bad. Rules are rules. Everyone there knew or should have known the rules, including the media. I like the fact that the police on Saturday were not in the mood to hear stories and long-winded explanations. I'm glad the police weren't in the mood for handing out warnings or giving people second chances or providing favors to certain individuals.
No matter how or why a person went passed the border, he or she would be arrested. Period. That was known ahead of time, right? The person arrested can tell their side of the story somewhere else. The TJ photographer should have known that it would be possible to be pushed or bumped into the forbidden zone. If the police let someone go because he was bumped, then all of sudden there could be a whole bunch of people who were supposedly bumped.
I say, excellent job by the police. Keeping the NSM and everyone else far apart was a great idea. Good, valuable coverage, as usual, by historymike.
Saturday evening Blade article about the rally:
"A neo-Nazi rally staged today in downtown Toledo ended about 3:50 p.m. with about 20 arrests, but no significant violence. About 50 members of the National Socialist Movement were part of a rally that started about 2:45 p.m. in front of Government Center. The neo-Nazis were vastly outnumbered by police, protesters, and a crowd estimated at about 150. About 700 police officers were on hand to control the crowd."
While driving back to Toledo this afternoon, I also listened to WWJ out of Detroit. NBC 24's Tom Bosco reported to WWJ that 660 police officers were downtown.
posted by jr at 10:14 P.M. EST on Sat Dec 10, 2005 #
You are right about the "police on Saturday were not in the mood to hear stories and long-winded explanations."
I saw it first on Sylvania Avenue about 12:15; a captain theatened to take us to jail if we did not stay on the sidewalk in taking pictures or talking to detainees. From that point on I knew the rules were different, and I put on my best "yes sir, no sir" face. You can't cover much in a jail cell.
The Jeff Willis incident was bizarre (he was the Journal photographer I saw get arrested). It started with a police horse getting jittery and knocking over a camera tripod. Willis moved out of the way from getting stomped by a horse and stepped about a foot past the orange-and-white sawhorses. I saw nothing else that could be construed as law-breaking on his part.
Then he got grabbed and taken to 525 Erie.
Several bystanders quipped that he was guilty of PWB (photography while black). This theory evaporated when a white photographer got nabbed.
There will be a time to debate whether or not some of the crackdown means that civil liberties were jeopardized. For tonight, let's just go to bed knowing that the city did not burn, and it was an almost injury-free day.
I guess we can thank Bill Spencer that we had single-degree windchills. People were too numb to act up.
posted by historymike at 10:53 P.M. EST on Sat Dec 10, 2005 #
So glad to see that the 'event' planned became a 'NON event' in the longrun.
Toledo is stronger than people believe and I congratulate each and every citizen, regardless of views, on remaining level headed.
posted by DoknowDocare at 10:34 A.M. EST on Sun Dec 11, 2005 #
I just read a posting on historymike's blog titled "On Civil Liberties and Neo-Nazi Rallies", and I disagree with historymike's position he takes in his posting. 16 comments so far to that posting on historymike's blog, but the only one I agree with was the comment by Hooda Thunkit.
Hooda said: "And, while recognizing a tendency towards being heavy handed, I'd like to applaud the overall performance of a keyed-up Law enforcement contingent, faced with a difficult situation."
I'd like to add again, EXCELLENT job by the police on Saturday.
I'm sick of both sides who participated on Saturday. Both are despicable groups, in my opinion. In fact, the protesters appear more rediculous than the Nazis. At least the Nazis had some kind of perverted reason and goal for being in Toledo, but the protesters didn't. That makes the protesters at least as dumb if not dumber than the Nazis.
The fact is the kiddies on both sides have had their fun in our city twice in the last two months on our taxpaying dime.
People are whining that the free speech rights of the protesters were violated and that the police were only protecting the rights of the Nazis. Bullshit. The police were protecting everyone's rights. Nobody was being denied the right to speak out on Saturday. The problem for these protesters is the fact that they had to follow RULES, probably for the first time in their lives.
If I go to a football game, I have to remain in the stands. If I go down on the field, I'm arrested. Should I bitch that my rights were violated because I couldn't go onto the field during the game? Saturday was about following rules. Those who didn't no matter how accidental, got busted, and I thank the police for that.
And here's some common sense I'm sure that will be lost on the protesters: You wouldn't have been arrested or hassled IF YOU WEREN'T THERE. How hard is that to understand?
Did anyone get seriously injured on Saturday? Did any property get destroyed on Saturday? If no to both, then damn great job by the police.
Dec 13 Blade article:
"Those arrested, the majority of whom are from out of town, were arraigned yesterday in Toledo Municipal Court on misdemeanor charges ranging from disorderly conduct to contempt of court."
"Among those arraigned was Elizabeth O'Brien, 18, of Lansing, who said she was repeatedly shocked with a Taser by Toledo police, and claims to have 35 welts on her left thigh."
Boo hoo to the welts. Lansing?
"Those leaving court yesterday differed on their experiences with the arresting officers. Aaron Higbie, 27, of Canton said he was treated fine by police who arrested him for disorderly conduct."
Canton?
"Matthew Cooper, 24, of South Toledo, said he felt the police did "a good job." Arrested for disorderly conduct, Mr. Cooper said the bigger problem was the mobs of protesters who came from out of town."
"Some of those arrested also came from Chicago, Detroit, and Pawtucket, R.I."
Out-of-fucking-towners whining about their freedoms. How about the citizens of Toledo rising up and protesting these protesters? Toledoans are paying for these assholes to invade our city and to make sure they don't harm anyone, to make sure they don't get harmed, and to make sure they don't destroy Toledo property. I'm glad they got busted and pushed around. Get lost, losers.
What was the point in protesting the Nazis? How pathetic are the lives of these people that they would actually travel to Toledo in December to stand outside for an hour or so? These protesters appear more foolish than the Nazis.
"Five Chicago-area residents were arrested in the parking lot of a West Toledo library after being accused of violating the city's temporary restraining order designed to keep groups out of neighborhoods."
Rules, punks. These dimwits probably grew up without any discipline and feel they can do whatever they want wherever they go. Not on Saturday.
"Jeff Gamso, legal director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Ohio, said Saturday's events were "troubling." He said the ACLU plans to review photos and interview participants to determine whether they should take the police to task for using excessive force."
Unbelievable. Frigging ACLU concerned about out-of-towners violating city rules. Again, (1) if you didn't go, nothing happened to you. (2) If you went and you paid attention, were sober, followed the rules, and behaved, you didn't get arrested. And if you did get arrested anyway, too bad. I refer you to item number 1.
I'm glad the police chose to not let Toledo be turned into some kind of demented playground.
"The effects of the rally go beyond future court dates. Law enforcement costs topped $340,000, the majority incurred by the city of Toledo, which estimates about $300,000 in police overtime ."
The "visit" in October cost that much or more, didn't it? That's why I'm glad the police were tough on Saturday. No more of this foolishness. That whole free speech crying and moaning thing is lost on me this time. Both sides, go somewhere else. You're not welcome here. Toledoans are paying for this crap, not the out-of-towners. And as a taxpayer, I have the RIGHT to be pissed off at the Nazis and the protesters.
Excellent job, TPD and other law enforcement.
Dec 11 Blade article:
"Others, such as Shaun Godwin, disagreed. "[The police are] just picking people out," the 26-year-old Ann Arbor man said. "Nobody has done anything." "
Ann Arbor? That city is not so boring that you need to go to Toledo on a Saturday.
"Terry Lodge, a Toledo lawyer and longtime civil rights activist, said he was upset by what he perceived as police harassment. He noted how people constantly were brushed back by police horses. He also was disturbed by how some people seemed to have been arrested for being too vocal or animated. "What you have in Toledo is martial law for a day," he said. "The whole business of shoving people back pre-emptively is wrong." One outsider in the crowd agreed that security went too far."
At $340,000 of taxpayer money, damn right it better be martial law. I want my money's worth.
The Blade caption for the above photo:
"Protesters at the neo-Nazis' rally outside Government Center shout down police."
Those people getting in the face of the cops are excrement. They are simply a different version of the Nazis. I bet some of these people were only there to hassle the police. They got a sign relevant for the day's event, but their focus was really the cops, not the Nazis. Some people hate the police no matter what. It has nothing to do with Nazis or the rally. They just hate cops, period.
Copwatching, it's hobby for some.
I attended Saturday's sessions at the Allied Media Conference in BG this past summer, and I really enjoyed it. I'd recommend attending at least one day. In fact, I'm still wearing the black wrist band they gave us to get into the sessions and events. It says, "Independent For Life."
One session or workshop I didn't attend was called: Copwatching.
"This interactive seminar assesses participants current understanding of their rights, your legal right to document police conduct as an observer. This workshop offers practical advice on how to deal with police confrontation. This workshop provides participants with information on what to do if they are arrested, harassed, or abused by police. It takes participants through the levels of police encounters and intrusion. Facilitators will also analyze the role of the police in Black/Latino communities."
On Saturday, I'd bet some of the protesters were trying to instigate the police.
Again, what was the point of the out-of-town protesters? For one thing, I believe they were hoping to start a riot. The protesters didn't accomplish anything. You think a Nazi in Toledo on Saturday suddenly changed his or her mind and decided to no longer be a Nazi because of something said by a protester?
Toledoans should hold a special ceremony to honor the police and the fine job they did on Saturday. I'm one satisfied taxpayer.
posted by jr at 03:09 P.M. EST on Tue Dec 13, 2005 #
I, too, am satisfied.
I wonder what the pay is to be a professional protester. I hear it is good work if you can get it.
posted by MemyselfandI at 06:13 P.M. EST on Tue Dec 13, 2005 #
I fully expected to find people unhappy with that editorial, so don't worry about offending me. It was an unpopular position to take (probably why I took it, but that's another story).
One of the reasons that so many "out-of-towners" got arrested is that TPD was targeting them. It's easy to se that a car with Illinois plates does not "belong" in the West Toledo library parking lot.
As far as "professional" protesters, they weren't here on Saturday (MeMyselfand I is referring to people hired to protest a given cause; some of our local unions employ this tactic, as do some political campaigns).
These were hardcore anti-Nazis who will travel 1000 miles on their own dime because they believe that the Nazis are antithetical to everything they believe in.
We can blame them, but recognize that they wouldn't be here if the Nazis weren't here.
Agreed, jr, that some protesters also are anti-cop. The anarchists, in particular, view police as a form of repression by the state against dissident views.
Me? I would just like to see better balance between protecting everyone's right to be heard. I saw some things on Saturday that were disturbing, and I think that the pendulum swung too far in favor of the Nazis, as well as "order at any cost."
posted by historymike at 06:35 P.M. EST on Tue Dec 13, 2005 #
Pictures and discussion about last Saturday's event at Infoshop.
REUTERS/Matt Sullivan
The so-called peace protesters lowering themselves to the level of the NSM by throwing horseshit at an NSM supporter.
(AP Photo/Kiichiro Sato)
"Photographer Jeff Willis of a Toledo newspaper is handcuffed by police officers during a rally held by the National Socialist Movement on the steps of the Government Center in Toledo, Ohio December 10, 2005. Hundreds of police officers from across northern Ohio along with state troopers mobilized to guard against another riot fuelled by neo-Nazi protesters. REUTERS/Matt Sullivan"
If no protesters showed up, the police wouldn't be needed. The NSM march out to one spot, they do something, and they leave. The protesters are more fluid and some have violent intentions. If the protesters didn't show up, all that would have existed would have been the NSM, the media outnumbering the NSM, and a few curious gawkers. The police were there because of the protesters' unpredictable behaviour.
A commenter said about the arrests of the media:
"(From what I heard on fox news:) at least some of the photographers were corporate press and they had stepped past the first line of barricades and the police arrested them due to a zero tolerance policy."
Rules. Even the media has to follow rules, even though some in the media are arrogant enough to think that they are somehow special, and that the rules for normal citizens don't apply to them.
More examples of great work by our police:
REUTERS/Matt Sullivan
(AP Photo/J.D. Pooley)
The protesters whine that their free speech, I mean, their freedom to commit violence was stifled on Saturday. Yet, they still had the right and the freedom to not enter downtown Toledo. Nobody forced the protesters into downtown Toledo. Saturday was not a revolutionary, world-changing event. It was a big zero. A massive waste of time and taxpayer money. It was a place for fools to be on display. No point in protesting. Protesting accomplisehd nothing.
posted by jr at 12:41 P.M. EST on Thu Dec 15, 2005 #
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