Interesting that two weeks after two County Commissioners vote to approve a contract that includes Pizzuti for the downtown arena study that the Mayor fires them.
It also means another delay for the Marina Project.
posted by psyche777 at 12:26 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 03, 2006 #
Typical Toledo Politics--citizens suffer and wait
posted by jdmsbyrd at 12:34 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 03, 2006 #
How long before the mayor anounces "his" new choice for the project. What was the deal on the March 31 deadline anyway? An arbitrary date picked from the mayor's calendar. And how long will it take for a new project developer to be found? More delays. By the time the marina is built the Toledo Free Press will be a daily.
posted by buttonpusher at 12:52 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 03, 2006 #
I guess that means we need to conduct another study on the project.
posted by Toledolaw05 at 12:55 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 03, 2006 #
Carty Gets Results....
(Even if it means firing someone)
posted by lloyd at 01:02 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 03, 2006 #
Pizzuti's contract on the Arena is with the County not the City. I don't know how the Mayor could impact that.
The Pizzuti people maintain that their lack of production on the project is due to the prior administration's signifcant lack of interest or direction. I heard a local rep from Pizzuti describe it as "Trying to pull a train uphiil by hand". It's unfortunate because they seem to have some good people working on the project but they have not produced any measuable private investment dollars nor have they indicated any inclination to invest any of their own money in the project.
The Mayor has a team, that includes Pizzuti, that has been working on the project for about 6 weeks and are reported to be making significant progress on a public/private partnership to build an outdoor concert venue for the project. In addition, after some addtional demolition is completed work will begin on a 150 (+-)slip marina and the Port Authority will start on a Marine Passenger Terminal to accomodate Great Lakes Cruise Ships. Both of these projects are projects are scheduled to start construction this year.
posted by steiner at 02:45 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 03, 2006 #
The way I understood it was the Lucas County Commissioners awarded a contract that involves Pizzuti for the arena.
I realize the Mayor firing them from the Marina project is a separate contract, but I wondered if that would have any impact on the County's decision.
posted by psyche777 at 04:00 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 03, 2006 #
I should correct that, Maggie voted against the awarding of the contract, so two Lucas County Commissioners awarded a contract.
posted by psyche777 at 04:02 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 03, 2006 #
Psyche - I doubt the mayor's action on the Marina project will have any impact on the county's contract.
My gut-level feeling (no basis in fact) is that this was in the works all along.
posted by MaggieThurber at 04:32 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 03, 2006 #
And, psyche, it is correct to say that the Board of County Commissioners awarded a contract to Pizzuti do to an arena. But thank you for clarifying that it was by a 2-1 vote.
posted by MaggieThurber at 04:34 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 03, 2006 #
I smell another 5-6 figure 'study' coming on...
posted by billy at 05:56 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 03, 2006 #
The logic of it bothers me, if Pizzuti was not meeting deadlines for the City, why would the County want him involved in the arena project?
Yet if it is another reason and this is a situation where a bar was set above what anyone could accomplish then that's different. However, then I wonder if there is that much difficulty meeting what the City wanted as to a retail anchor how the marina project is going to be possible and if it is going to be "re-worked" re-worked into what?
Maggie, thanks I worded the first one in a way that could have appeared it had the support of all three County Commissioners so that wasn't accurate. I'd also have to say I lean in the "haven't we had enough basic studies" group, if I remember right not only was a detailed market study suggested as the next step but a traffic study was suggested as well.
posted by psyche777 at 07:07 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 03, 2006 #
Hey, if a new study is going to be done (it's a given it won't be needed, but done probably), we could all volunteer to do it. They can pay US those big bucks, and probably get better answers.
posted by starling02 at 07:14 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 03, 2006 #
Has this site not adjusted for Daylight Savings Time?
posted by lloyd at 07:24 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 03, 2006 #
No, apparently not.
posted by lloyd at 07:25 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 03, 2006 #
Well, Carty put a deadline of March 31st for Pizzuti to recruit a major anchor for the Marina District. This may have been knowingly unachievable.
Think about it... if you're a major anchor, would you be signing on the dotted line when the new mayor is talking about a "canal" going through the property you're considering?
Even Carty couldn't get Bass Pro in 90 days.
posted by MaggieThurber at 07:56 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 03, 2006 #
psyche,
If you do some research I think you'll find that Jim Russell from Pizzutti has a long term relationship with Tom Chema, Jim Ruvolo, and other long time Dems that have been eating at the public trough for a long time. That may explain how they got the arena deal.
Anybody else think it's questionable that the company hired to study if an arena was economically feasible for our community concluded that it was and then got the contract to build it?
Could Commissioner Gerkin be committing the taxpayers of Lucas County to spend 1 to 3 million dollars per year for a long time to build an arena for Pizzutti's American League Hockey team and so that the owners of the downtown parking lots can increase revenue?
posted by 05er at 08:17 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 03, 2006 #
Carty couldn't get thru his first 100 days without showing us he will never change.
posted by BrianInFlorida at 08:22 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 03, 2006 #
BrianInFlorida
The arena is a county deal, nothing to do with Carty.
posted by 05er at 08:32 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 03, 2006 #
With all the headaches involved with doing anything in Toledo, It'll be a miracle if *any* developer wants to work with us again. Word travels fast about nightmare clients.
-Dan
posted by photodan at 09:11 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 03, 2006 #
wtol.com says Don Monroe will head up the Marina District project. I wonder how long that has been in the works.
posted by CrankyEastSider at 09:46 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 03, 2006 #
I'd say since February 10th:
Toledo's Marina District project will start getting the attention of a paid coordinator, Mayor Carty Finkbeiner said yesterday.
Mr. Finkbeiner said Don Monroe, executive director of River East Economic Revitalization Association, will be project coordinator for the development.
"Don Monroe, effective March 1, is going to become the hands-on project leader in the field," Mr. Finkbeiner said. He said he is asking Ron Pizzuti, president of Pizzuti Cos., the developer of the Marina District, to split the cost with the city.
posted by psyche777 at 10:15 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 03, 2006 #
buttonpusher asked:
"How long before the mayor anounces "his" new choice for the project."
Last October, Carty sort of announced his choice for developer of the Marina District.
From the October 12, 2005 Blade story:
"Mr. Finkbeiner said he hopes he can interest Frank Kass of Columbus, the original Marina District developer, in returning to the project. Mr. Kass dropped out early in Mr. Ford’s term. He said Mr. Kass had financial backing from Nationwide Insurance Co. and a track record through his Waterfront development in Pittsburgh."
I'd be interested in hearing what Peter Ujvagi has to say about Carty's decision. Last year, Ujvagi worked closely with Pizzuti, local officials, and citizens to get something going with the Marina District project.
posted by jr at 10:27 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 03, 2006 #
Umm....05er?
I read the article. You made my point, thank you.
posted by BrianInFlorida at 03:54 A.M. EST on Tue Apr 04, 2006 #
taking all bets here. How many days until the next study (review/report/analysis) is announced?
I'm thinking 17 days. Yup yup yup, my money is on 17.
Now how many thousands of dollars? I'm thinking 115k. Maybe 130.
But the real wager will be who's going to get the contract :-) Hmmmmm? Any bets on that?
posted by katie82640 at 01:53 P.M. EST on Tue Apr 04, 2006 #
I'm wagering 28 months at $600,000.
Unless better qualified commissioners are elected. (Thank you for voting NO, Maggie)
posted by BrianInFlorida at 03:33 P.M. EST on Tue Apr 04, 2006 #
You're welcome, Brian - but the Marina district is not a county project. Hopefully it never becomes one!
posted by MaggieThurber at 05:06 P.M. EST on Tue Apr 04, 2006 #
Oh THAT's reassuring!
Wager Update: 5 years at 1.3 million.
posted by BrianInFlorida at 05:22 P.M. EST on Tue Apr 04, 2006 #
Good riddance Pizzuti is out. For the last two years they worked with former mayor Ford and look at the results. Go-figure. Y'all need to remember that the Marina District project came about several months before Carty's term was up. It was J'Fo that dragged his feet on the project and had massive amount in turnovers of developers. Time to move on.
posted by HolyHolyToledo at 07:34 P.M. EST on Tue Apr 04, 2006 #
Ok - I'll take that 5 years and raise you an eon.
Tell me what this is from y'all.
Boot to the Head.
posted by katie82640 at 08:02 P.M. EST on Tue Apr 04, 2006 #
Could it be that the management of any possible anchor store has been watching this Chinese Fire Drill lo these many years, and would only become interested when the walls actually start going up?
If you were a representative of an anchor store, would you want to dip your toe in the water of any rethought, rehashed, regurgitated, development project with this one's history?
Maybe this is what is meant by, "BUILD it (first and finally)and they will come (when the finally se some actual progress)..."
Whether you like Pizzuti or not, maybe they aren't the problem; Toledo and its' quirky way of managing this project (stumbling, incessant feet dragging) is, or could be MORE the reason.
posted by Hooda_Thunkit at 05:37 A.M. EST on Wed Apr 05, 2006 #
That's typically the way large commercial sites are built. You see the for lease sign right by the construction company's sign.
The idea of having everything paid for and space leased before you do anything is a sure track to nowhere.
Locate a site. Make a decision. Hire an architect to design the site. Build it. Then lease the space out.
Then move onto another project...
posted by katie82640 at 11:11 A.M. EST on Wed Apr 05, 2006 #
Over the past three or four years, the Marina District project has burned through at least three developers: Kass, Douglas, and Pizzuti with nothing built yet. But the land has been cleaned up.
posted by jr at 02:22 P.M. EST on Wed Apr 05, 2006 #
Maybe we need to get the Cedar Point people to build an amusement park there. To be built in conjunction with the marina plan. That'll draw some steady crowds. How about some gambing casino? This project could revitalize the entire East Side if done right.
posted by Bbcmjeep43 at 11:09 A.M. EST on Sun Apr 09, 2006 #
From an April 23 Russ Lemmon column:
"Let's see, Toledo Mayor Carty Finkbeiner gave Pizzuti Cos. a little more than two months to secure a retail anchor for the Marina District and now, with the nonprofit River East Economic Development Corp. having taken over the project (receiving $8,000 a month for doing so), there is no deadline."
"Rewind to January: Mr. Finkbeiner, in a two-paragraph letter, told Ron Pizzuti that "it won't take very long for us to find a top-flight developer" if his company didn't make the deadlines (March 31 for the first retail anchor; May 31 for a second).
"Apparently, this "top-flight developer" is the Carty Crony Club."
posted by jr at 03:12 P.M. EST on Wed Apr 26, 2006 #
Russ clearly has his finger on the pulse of this community. His comments are consistently on target and based on hard facts and good logic. Besides, I'm sure he's the smartest person on the bus.
posted by steiner at 04:37 P.M. EST on Wed Apr 26, 2006 #
The recent Blade article on this topic made the important point particularly clear: private investment simply doesn't exist for a Marina District. How many millions of taxpayers dollars are going to be wasted before Toledoans acknowledge this fact? If Carty et al had their way, Toledo would waste another $30M digging a glorified canal just so the crack dealers around International Park could have a splendid riverside walk while plying their trade.
I suppose that I'm glad that Toledo is now too poor to effectively marshal the public funds to get such a thing accomplished. Still, I'm annoyed since Carty and the rest will still waste as much taxpayer dollars as they can to pursue this Impossible Dream. After all, look at the long line of 5- and 6-digit "studies" that have been done for the project.
posted by GuestZero at 12:15 A.M. EST on Thu Apr 27, 2006 #
The recent Blade article on this topic made the important point particularly clear: private investment simply doesn't exist for a Marina District.
GZ - I was wondering how long it would take for someone to bring up this point.
posted by MaggieThurber at 06:09 A.M. EST on Thu Apr 27, 2006 #
Besides, I'm sure he's the smartest person on the bus.
posted by steiner at 05:37 P.M. EST on Wed Apr 26, 2006
I quit reading his articles. Same thing with Ann Coulter and a couple of others. I know I get snarky - but whenever there's so much sarcasm the point is just lost - it's hard to read without getting emotionally involved. I don't need that out of the local paper. Just the facts man,,,gimme the facts.
I think that happened to me during the '00 election cycle and cemented in the '04 campaign. I just got so fed up with sarcasm and finger pointing and no offered solutions.
My mother quit reading the paper and watching the news at that point.
posted by katie82640 at 09:00 A.M. EST on Thu Apr 27, 2006 #
If anyone has a real interest in being brought up to speed on the progress of the Marina District, there is a hearing today of the Economic Development Committee @ 2:00 in council chambers. I think many of the members of the Marina District development team will be providing committee reports and some historical perspective. It should be informative.
posted by steiner at 10:36 A.M. EST on Thu Apr 27, 2006 #
BTW GZ,
Shortly before being dismiised the Pizzuti Companies submitted a contract for demolition in the Marina District with an out of town firm. The contract was reportedly in the $300,000 range. Within 2 weeks members of the committee had reviewed the contract, had the project rebid locally and reportedly saved in the range of $80,000.
I've said it before: Pizzuti being gone is a good Thing.
posted by steiner at 11:09 A.M. EST on Thu Apr 27, 2006 #
"It should be informative."
Great, but will ALL of the informative information be made available in audio and/or text format on the web for those who can't be at a 2:00 p.m. meeting? I'm not talking about a water-downed news story.
posted by jr at 11:51 A.M. EST on Thu Apr 27, 2006 #
I think that all of the hearings in council chambers are recorded but I don't know where to get a copy or transcript.
posted by steiner at 06:47 A.M. EST on Fri Apr 28, 2006 #
Copies of the cds can be obtained from the Clerk of Council.
posted by MaggieThurber at 07:11 A.M. EST on Fri Apr 28, 2006 #
For broadband users, the transcripts should be made available for download. Let Toledo government know it's 2006 not 1996.
About last Thursday's meeting from the April 28 Blade story titled "Progress seen on Marina District - Development team, mayor urge patience".
Patience? You mean like that three-month deadline Carty gave Pizzuti?
Progress? We've heard that before.
More from Friday's Blade story:
"The Marina District project in East Toledo can go forward without a master developer or the involvement of a major retailer, and will likely attract stores or restaurants before any residential development is established, members of Mayor Carty Finkbeiner's new development team told a City Council committee yesterday."
I assume the above belief is based upon the wonderful success of the government-managed Erie Street Market that is undergoing another infusion of taxpayer money.
If the Marina District land was such a prized piece of property, why aren't developers from around the country beating down Toledo's doors, begging for the chance to develop that land?
"Mr. Finkbeiner used the news conference to trumpet progress in clearing and cleaning much of the 125-acre site."
Trumpet progress? The cleanup was trumpeted last summer by the Ford administration. Click that link and view the photos of the posters presented at last June's Marina District Charette. Carty isn't saying anything new here.
"... development team members said a visit last weekend to San Antonio's downtown Riverwalk ..."
I hope these clowns are not still thinking about building a canal in the Marina District. As mentioned before, the canal idea was proposed and shot down in last June's Marina District brainstorming.
From notes taken at last June's Marina District meeting:
"Pete [Gerken] said it would take many years for such a canal to be constructed because of the red tape and hassle involved when deailing with the Army Corp of Engineers who, I think, would be responsible for constructing the canal. Again, I don't recall anyone disputing Gerken's Corp of Engineers hassle thought."
More from the April 28 Blade story:
" "We need to rethink our impatience with this project," agreed Jim Mettler, director of economic development for the Toledo-Lucas County Port Authority, which plans to build a marine passenger terminal in the Marina District."
I like that, "rethink our impatience." It's a convenient excuse.
"Mr. Finkbeiner promised that by year's end, city contractors will have built the project's 78-slip marina and an access road leading through the site."
From a December 15, 2005 Blade story:
"Stacks of steel I-beams near the shuttered Acme power plant attest to the beginning of something Toledo residents have looked forward to for five years - actual construction in the Marina District."
"Mr. Carroll said contractors are driving steel pilings up to 40 feet in the ground to construct a retaining wall for the marina that will have 180 boat slips, and is tentatively called the Glass City Marina. The marina is in an inlet located just north of the former Acme power plant."
"The Toledo-Lucas County Port Authority is developing the terminal, which will serve Great Lakes cruise ships. The terminal will have a U.S. Customs office, shops, a restaurant, and amenities for boaters tying up in the adjacent marina, such as shower and restroom facilities, swimming pool, and playground."
"The third project is the $2.6-million Marina Drive, which will connect the marina and terminal to Front Street, and is being paid for by the city."
"Toledo Councilman Frank Szollosi, chairman of council's economic development committee, said the facilities are set to open in mid-2007."
I obviously missed something. How did Toledo's first full-service public marina shrink from 180 boat slips to 78?
After last Thursday's meeting of presentations, George Sarantou said of the Marina District's future:
"My level of doubt has gone down substantially."
Sarantou was the only one from Toledo City Council to participate in last summer's Marina District meeting. I didn't realize he was so full of doubt last June. I know he's full of something.
SUMMARY OF COMMENTS FROM THE JUNE 25, 2005 SESSION produced by Peter Ujvagi who organized that Marina District meeting.
posted by jr at 10:41 A.M. EST on Sat Apr 29, 2006 #
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