Interrupting the service was a tad much (couldn't officers in community relations have contacted church officials later to discuss toning things down in the future?).
But if the music was loud enough to prompt neighbors to call the police, I wouldn't want to live nearby. Makes no difference to me whether it's gospel music or any other kind of excessive noise (how 'bout those blasted leaf blowers?). I don't see one kind of noise as "better" than another. It appears that this was a repeating problem for neighbors.
Disclaimer: I'm *extremely* sensitive to noise. I routinely ask management at restaurants to turn down or turn off music. I resent the boomboxes in cars more than I can say. Come fireworks season, my last nerve will be fried. Sometimes noise feels like a physical blow that leaves bruises. I know that's not a very common reaction, but it is how it affects me.
That magic 9pm line that was crossed doesn't make much sense to me. Noise is noise no matter what time it's made, and police will tell noise-makers to put a lid on it, regardless of the time.
posted by CrankyEastSider at 11:38 P.M. EST on Sat Apr 15, 2006 #
Maybe so, CrankyEastSider.
I recall living about a mile away from the biggest mosque in the Detroit area, near Vernor and Oakwood. The call to prayers was broadcast over a loudspeaker in Arabic, and the first call was very early in the morning. I could hear it quite clearly from a mile away (although I don't speak Arabic).
Some neighbors - closer to the mosque than I - tried to get the city to force the mosque to end this prctice. The bottom line - freedom of religion trumped local noise ordinances.
I'm not sure if this is an equivalent example, but I doubt that the city wants to open this can of legal worms.
posted by historymike at 07:21 A.M. EST on Sun Apr 16, 2006 #
I recall living about a mile away from the biggest mosque in the Detroit area, near Vernor and Oakwood. The call to prayers was broadcast over a loudspeaker in Arabic,
And I'm sooooooooooooooooooo sure that in Mohammed's day, they had loud speakers too.
Hmmmmf.
posted by WhiteAfricanAmerican at 07:54 A.M. EST on Sun Apr 16, 2006 #
A touchy situation that, I'm sure, will snowball into something allegedly politically/racially motivated.
What ever happened to common courtesy? The time in life where you could call your neighbor and say, "Hey Joe? Your music/TV/car is a little loud. Do you think you could keep it down a bit?" And then have Joe respond with, "Sure, John. Didn't realize it was so loud. Sorry for the upset." And then things settled down.
Now we all worry about lawsuits, retribution, violence, vandalism, or other forms of abuse for asking that our neighbors try to be courteous to all.
It's sad that this is progress.
posted by DoknowDocare at 08:52 A.M. EST on Sun Apr 16, 2006 #
Shutting down a call to prayer via a loudspeaker doesn't seem like getting in the way of freedom of religion. Not if I get to be the judge, I mean. The followers of the religion are still free to worship; they just need to get vibrating pagers or alarm clocks/watches if they need to be alerted when it's time to pray. I've seen movies where the call to prayer is shown and it looks/sounds like something that would drive anyone nearby absolutely bonkers. If what you lived near was as loud and annoying as what I've seen in those movies, it seems crazy that there wouldn't be legal ways to control that.
Last year a group of people renting an apt. near my house were making excessive noise all night long, but in a random pattern. Random noise bugs me even more than sustained noise because during the times of silence I'm stressed by the expectation it will start again at any moment. The people were not officially tenants; there was just one person renting the place. The others were hanging out there because it was a drug house. And people wanting drugs would show up all night long, pounding on the door, hollering up to the second floor windows to alert those inside they were there. Cars were noisy, too, as these folks showed up (boom boxes, doors slamming, weird engine noises, etc.). The noise would finally stop about 6am, when I guess everybody fell asleep or they were sufficiently drugged by that time.
I finally found the 2-pronged cure. 1) phoning the landlord every time the group awakened me, regardless of the hour ... and 2) photographing the people hanging around the property via my telephoto lens, then printing those photos and giving them to the landlord and telling him the photos were taken by undercover cops who were asking me to call them when any people in the photos showed up again -- because they were ready to crack down on the property. I told him they said something about the city taking the property away from the owner via the drug laws.
Lies? Yep. But it took the landlord about three days to empty out the building after that, and the problems had been going on for close to a year with the landlord shrugging off the complaints from multiple neighbors.
posted by CrankyEastSider at 10:06 A.M. EST on Sun Apr 16, 2006 #
Does anyone sense some racism here? Upton UMC seems to be largely an African American church in a mixed neighborhood. I bet the neighbors of Cedar Creek aren't complaining.
Don't Catholic Churches have bells that they ring early in the morning? What are we going to start complaining about next, church traffic?
I bet this is good free advertising for them. Seems like they have pretty lively services. I've been meaning to check them out for a while (I'm a self-proclaimed church connoisseur).
I also heard they are planning on moving anyways, does anyone know anything about this? Potentially in a couple of months, this cranky, racist 80 year old will have nothing to complain about. Perhaps he would be more satisfied to see a dilapidated building across the street.
posted by lloyd at 12:08 P.M. EST on Sun Apr 16, 2006 #
I had not considered it, Lloyd, but now that you mention it, race might be a factor.
Upton UMC has been in its current location for 15 years, so perhaps a new arrival in the neighborhood is being cranky.
Another sore spot for neighbors might be parking; Upton UMC is a very busy church, and cars are lined up for blocks on any given Sunday (probably for 1/4 mile today, being Easter Sunday).
As I mentioned, I have known Reverend Pat McKinstry for some time. I don't think of her as a "black" minister, but rather as a great human being.
And, truth be told, I first met her in one of the most "honest" settings in which to judge character: as a restaurant server.
Reverend Pat was not only a good tipper, but one of those people you like to wait on. She would ask about my family, my writing, and my faith (she was concerned that my relationship with God - which I freely admitted was in the proverbial sewer - could use some work. And she was right).
I have always believed that a person's true personality comes out in the manner in which they treat service personnel. Some local politicians put on the "I love working people" face in public, but act like total a**holes when they deal with servers.
I may have mentioned this before, but Ray Kest was always a great person to wait on, despite any alleged shortcomings with which the Blade has tried to hammer the public about him. You could sense that he was a decent sort at heart.
Don't get me going about Betty Schultz, though...
posted by historymike at 12:58 P.M. EST on Sun Apr 16, 2006 #
I have a sincere question...why is the name "Muhammad" always misspelled as "Mohammed"?
posted by MrsPhoenix at 01:06 P.M. EST on Sun Apr 16, 2006 #
MrsPhoenix, I don't really know. Is it the same reason every one writes Usama as Osama? Which is the correct way? There must be some reason Fox News only uses Usama when 99% of the media uses Osama. Some may say its because Fox News is run by a bunch of idiots, ha-ha.
posted by lloyd at 02:43 P.M. EST on Sun Apr 16, 2006 #
I have always believed that a person's true personality comes out in the manner in which they treat service personnel.
Well said Mike. I never understood why someone would treat a food server like a subordinate or a slave. Are some people's egos so screwed up that it takes treating severs like crap to make them feel good about themselves?
Also, how a person handles stress or crisis is a good sign of what kind of person he/she is. How a person is in traffic and behaves around kids and handicapped people says alot about them. Also, how one handles the elderly shows what kind of character they have.
posted by lloyd at 02:52 P.M. EST on Sun Apr 16, 2006 #
I also hope they turned the volume up on their sound system.
posted by lloyd at 06:09 P.M. EST on Sun Apr 16, 2006 #
Objecting to noise is racism?
Why is it so hard to accept that the level of noise was just plain too high? If the source of the noise had been a bar or a KKK meeting, would there be a desire to blame the complainer?
Rhetorical questions, those.
It really doesn't matter how nice the minister is or isn't, other than its being a tribute to her character. Her niceness does nothing to lower the volume.
Historymike, are you just going to leave us hanging about Betty? C'mon, spill.
posted by CrankyEastSider at 07:19 P.M. EST on Sun Apr 16, 2006 #
I have a sincere question...why is the name "Muhammad" always misspelled as "Mohammed"?
It's actually not a misspelling. The letter in Arabic doesn't have an exact match for an English letter. So neither Usama or Osama or Muhammed/Mohammed is correct nor incorrect. I have heard Fox News explain why they use Usama instead of Osama, and it had something to do with Usama sounding more like Arabic speakers say it. Other stations use Osama because it is closer to the way it is actually spelled. Or it could be the other way around......either way that's the reasoning behind the different spellings.
posted by HeyHey at 11:10 P.M. EST on Sun Apr 16, 2006 #
Thank you, HeyHey.
posted by MrsPhoenix at 06:52 A.M. EST on Mon Apr 17, 2006 #
So, if the minister is nice, why doesn't she turn the volume down? If a person can hear the music two blocks away, the music is too loud.
I, too, am sensitive to loud noise and music. I hate boom cars and loud stereos. I fail to understand the appeal of loud music. I vote for silence in all cases.
I rather like the way CrankyEastSider handled the landlord. Nice job!
posted by madjack at 07:02 A.M. EST on Mon Apr 17, 2006 #
Muhammad" always misspelled as "Mohammed"?
There are regional dialects that have spelling differences. Such as in 'English' Smith may be spelled Smith or Smythe - Kate may be spelled Kaet also - if you correspond w/someone from Scotland - it's a location difference. Usama is the same as Osama. It depends on where you live.
posted by katie82640 at 10:32 A.M. EST on Mon Apr 17, 2006 #
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