Great idea....if you have a bike.
posted by observer1 at 10:35 A.M. EST on Fri Jun 02, 2006 #
its a pretty big issue to some - I understand there was a bus tour of the proposed site yesterday and there were dozens of signs in yards along Beechway saying No to the bike path.
Viable questions are,
Where will bikers park their cars?
If a bike path has 8 street crossings, is it really a good place to put a trail?
Who will maintain the trail?
Neighbors worry about strangers cycling/walking thru their neighborhood at all hours that have no reason to do so now.
If the neighbors overwhelmingly do not want this trail, can the city bull it in anyway?
Dont we have anything better to do with our capital improvements fund?
If we've got so much money to spend, how about a tax rebate?
posted by billy at 10:57 A.M. EST on Fri Jun 02, 2006 #
Good question. I know when I lived in Westerville they spent quite a bit of money on hiking and bike paths for the parks - and I think there's some here in Toledo although I don't use them.
What is the logic behind this? Getting people out and exercising? Or making these communities more appealing to home buyers?
posted by katie82640 at 11:11 A.M. EST on Fri Jun 02, 2006 #
I do like the idea of creating bike paths as a form of alternative transportation. Here are my problems with the idea.
* Our climate does not lend itself to allow biking as year-round transportation.
* Employers and retail establishments generally do not provide a safe place to park the bike without being stolen.
* Mot importantly- The proposed path is unwanted by those who own homes in the area of proposed pathway. How does this affect their property values?
* If the purpose of this path proposal is more to provide entertainment and exercise options for Toledoans, then I would not agree with allocating $600,000.
* Carty is on a bike riding kick. Is this for him? You know I was listening to sports radio 1470 about a month ago, when they interviewed Carty (mainly wanting to know his predictions for next year's college football season.) I can't remember his exact words but in reference to his shower room installation he said 'I probably should not say this but I have not even used it yet.'
posted by nick44 at 11:31 A.M. EST on Fri Jun 02, 2006 #
I lived in Dublin, Ohio too and that community had wonderful bike/walking paths. It was a real plus for the community but it was part of the development of the subdivisions not something that was added.
Personally, I loved it. It was a great draw for young people and young families.
I seem to recall that there was considerable opposition to the rails to trails bikepath between Sylvania and UT -- fears about vandalism, trespassing, etc.
Does anyone know how those people feel about that path now?
posted by corky at 11:34 A.M. EST on Fri Jun 02, 2006 #
Where will bikers park their cars?
Walbridge Park or Delaware Park.
If a bike path has 8 street crossings, is it really a good place to put a trail?
Probably one of the best places to put one. Think about old people: They probably aren't going to be interested in loading their bike in their car and driving out to one of the Rails to Trails bike paths. A local, urban bike path would be much more useful to them. Me too, since I don't have a bike rack for my car.
Neighbors worry about strangers cycling/walking thru their neighborhood at all hours that have no reason to do so now.
Can't people drive through their neighborhood at all hours right now? My parents live on an urban bike path and have never had a problem from passers-by in 15+ years. If you're committing a crime while riding a bike, I doubt you're going to use the one and only bike path in that area as your escape route anyways. If someone is that scared about people walking by their house, they should probably move to a gated community. Personally, I'd prefer a bike path to the constant thump of bass that accompanies a lot of Toledo cars.
I don't know why homeowners would be opposed to this plan. When looking for a new house, the bike path was a huge plus for my parents.
If the neighbors overwhelmingly do not want this trail, can the city bull it in anyway?
Yes, as long as it's in a city-owned right of way.
Dont we have anything better to do with our capital improvements fund?
At least we're not pissing it away on something that will go bankrupt in a few years. *cough* ESM *cough*
posted by thenick at 11:51 A.M. EST on Fri Jun 02, 2006 #
Has anybody seen a map of the proposed trail? It seems like it just goes around in a big circle through the beverly neighborhood for all I've read.
How about making bike trails that actually GET you somewhere? It's one thing to make some bike paths in a park for recreation. It's another thing to facilitate the citiy's infrastructure to encourage bike use.
I'd rather see the city provide infrastructure to create biking corridors, like connecting the university trails path to the downtown, or adding a curb bike lane to some of the busier city streets like Dorr Street or Bancroft. Even a few loops to lock up a bike would be nice.
Bikes work fine on city streets when the lanes are configured to allow bicycles on the far right. Why does this area need a bike path when the streets work fine? I'd rather see the city invest in some paint.
posted by timault at 11:56 A.M. EST on Fri Jun 02, 2006 #
"I do like the idea of creating bike paths as a form of alternative transportation."
I don't think bike paths can be used as a form of alternative transportation in the city. At least not very easily. Don't the bike paths have end points?
Bike lanes could provide for alternative transporation. Bike lanes shadow the roads. Problem is, I don't think Toledo has any bike lanes.
I suppose it would have been too costly to add a bike lane to all the new city streets that have been redone in recent years. And then the cost of keeping the bike lane clean would have to be factored in.
posted by jr at 11:57 A.M. EST on Fri Jun 02, 2006 #
I love it how Carty proposed this in his neighborhood. Maybe it could be used to make another part of toledo a little nicer. His "hood" is already one of the nicest, so how about spreading it around a little? Like a walking/bike path that follows the maumee river starting at the MARINA DISTRICT,it could connect to those condos on miami, go through the docks, and up and around, etc. (but why would he do that, he doesn't live over there).
(p.s. im not cutting on the south enders)
posted by tm at 12:23 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 02, 2006 #
Problem is, I don't think Toledo has any bike lanes.
Not so. The problem is that Toledo drivers lack the social skills to accomodate bike lanes and the people who use them.
posted by madjack at 02:04 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 02, 2006 #
There are some bike lanes on Bancroft St. through Ottawa hills and out along King Rd. from the university park trail to Sylvania and along Sylvania.
Many of Toledo's streets are wide enough to have a bike lane if the lanes were repainted. Not all of Toledo's streets are as narrow as Secor Rd. is...
But alas, yes the social skills of some of Toledo's drivers... for the record in my outings many are quite friendly, but there's always some chucklehead who'd rather run us off the road... and you always find That one on every ride.
posted by timault at 02:37 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 02, 2006 #
There's a bike trail that crosses McCord and ends up somewhere in the North forty. I've used it before, and it's terrifying. Soccer MomzNDadz take their brood out for family fun, and the carpet crabs wander all over the place. Try to pass, and sure as the sun rises some little soccer weasel will swerve in front of you. The parents think it's cute.
Just hit one sometime and see what happens. While you're picking gravel out of your hide and trying to decide if you've fractured anything, Soccer Mom is simultaneously crying over her precious, precious weasel and throwing a hissy fit your way with civil suite overtones. Soccer Dad suddenly believes he won last years' Toledo Tough Man contest and wants to fight.
Of course, if the Police ever arrive they'll be confronted with the all-American family, who will claim that you're a terrorist pedophile who tried to murder their perfect little honor student. Most police are actually stupid enough to believe this shit, so you'll be lucky if you're only tasered four or five times.
Oh, but there's got to be witnesses, right? They're long gone, Bozo. Especially any who are smart enough to calmly recite what really happened. It's a bike path, remember? People tend to keep moving... right after they call 9-1-1 and file the 73rd report about an accident on the bike trail.
Realistically you'll get out of the slammer in three or four days, after Mr. & Mrs. Soccer wake up and talk to the DA for two or three minutes. By this time you'll have been inducted into county jail society and will have a brand new circle of friends.
The only way I'm interested in supporting a bike path for six hundred grand is if we can get the Toledo chapter of the Hell's Angels to ride the path on their choppers at irregular intervals and terrorize the soccer families, optionally beating the living shit out of a few of them with motorcycle chains. Maybe they'd even ambush Carty.
Now that would be a path worth having.
posted by madjack at 02:37 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 02, 2006 #
oh man,,,,that's funny.
posted by katie82640 at 03:16 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 02, 2006 #
Nick - are two people posting under your handle?
you post at 12:31 all the problems you have with it, then at 12:51 you sound like you think it should be green lighted?
posted by billy at 03:30 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 02, 2006 #
One opinion from a reader of the Blade said that they'd much rather see a cycle route (lane?) constructed on the AWT from Maumee, to allow bicycle commuting that the pols always give lip-service to. If any route needs to be constructed, an "AWT Bike Lane" makes greater sense and should take priority.
Of course, the greater priority is the set of necessary road repairs and expansions of our congested areas (Franklin Park being one). So, I'm FIRMLY AGAINST the Harvard/Beverly proposal. Sure, I'd personally benefit by the trail, but Toledo is in no shape whatsoever to make such investments.
P.S. I haven't biked the "Rails to Trails" trail (that mostly starts by UT and runs out to King Rd.) in several years. It crosses a handful of streets. But even today with the pretentious soccer families thinking all land and gasoline belongs soley to them ... I just can't imagine that they can come along and send you flying without taking significant risk of being cited by the cops. The bike-path crossings are marked as such.
posted by GuestZero at 03:38 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 02, 2006 #
So let me get this straight:
Riding on bike trails leads inevitably leads to prison rape?
posted by thenick at 03:39 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 02, 2006 #
It's important to point out a few things, first- this is not a loop. It starts and Beverly & Copeland and ends at Walbridge Park. There are several starts and stops, and many are quite dangerous. Avid bike riders won't use it if they a)have to dodge the walkers/stroller pushers that the path was originally marketed towards, and b)if there are so many starts and stops, with significant delays, they would much rather use a different path that provides uninterrupted bike riding enjoyment... like, say River Road, which is right down the street.
Being at the meeting and the bus tour I sure felt talked down to, like I was a little kid, stupid because I'm not "like minded"... well Mr. Carty, remember many of these people voted for you.
you should have seen ALL of the signs on Beverly, Wildwood and back behind Delaware Park. Reading them was half the fun of the bus tour!
Carty was telling us all that we've been lied to by WSPD, which is funny because I hadn't listened to Fred much since this came up. Whatevah C!
posted by gotoledogo at 03:51 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 02, 2006 #
and I would caution all of the Beverly peeps, esp. the ones that he has fingered as the "trouble makers"-- he can be vindictive and make no mistake, you WILL be cited for anything wrong with your house or property!
His "staff" was jotting down notes on properties as the bus crept along last night. Carty gave everyone a blue form to mail in any complaints on property- city or homeowner property.
posted by gotoledogo at 03:54 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 02, 2006 #
GREAT post GZ! I've enjoyed reading all of them. To me, all Toledoans should have a say in this. It's your money too!
FWIW, I was told that the $600K cannot go towards roads because it's for capital improvements. I have no idea why.
posted by gotoledogo at 03:56 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 02, 2006 #
GZ, madjack,
I use the Univ-Park Trail almost every day to go to work, and it really isn't a problem manuevering around the soccer families. The real problem is when people are out with their dogs on one of those retractable leashes that extend to 25feet. You can call "on your left" til the cows come home, and these owners still won't retract the leash, and then the dog (usually a golden retreiver or labrador) runs out in front of you. So you slam on the brakes, and either you hit the dog, the owner, or get clotheslined by the leash. If you're lucky it's just a tap and you don't fall off your bike.
Wildwood's paths are unusable on bicycle for this exact reason. But the dog-walkers also like to wander onto the Univ-parks trail...
But that's the problems with mixing bicycles with pedestrians, and why bikes don't normally go on sidewalks. What we need are streets that accomodate bicycles, not more "exercise" paths.
How much does paint cost?!
posted by timault at 03:58 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 02, 2006 #
I wish they had one in West Toledo. I might actually be interested in riding a bike if it was on a nice trail. It's too much hassel to load a bike into the car or truck and go drive somewhere to bike.
As for those that whine that it'll bring "strangers" into their neighborhoods. Come on, if someone wants to burglarize your house do you think the lack of a hike/bike trail is gonna influence his decision?
posted by JeepMaker at 04:01 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 02, 2006 #
"The problem is that Toledo drivers lack the social skills to accomodate bike lanes and the people who use them."
That's true. The nutball drivers would use the bike lane as a passing lane. Lately, I've noticed some crazy drivers using the middle turning lanes that are lined with yellow paint as passing lanes. Two actual lanes going in each direction aren't enough. Now people are blowing by drivers via the turning lanes.
"One opinion from a reader of the Blade said that they'd much rather see a cycle route (lane?) constructed on the AWT from Maumee ..."
Now that does make sense. Maybe the problem around here is the lack of a bicycle culture that's needed to get in the mind set of thinking about bike lanes.
A couple of bicycling groups do exist around here. Years ago, I used to ride with the Maumee Valley Wheelmen on the weekends. I could be wrong, but I think the Wheelmen would be more interested in bike lanes than bike paths.
In a topic last summer, timault said:
"... and you get a lot of strange looks when you decide to bike downtown rahter than take a car ..."
I responded with:
"Time to change that thinking. Where is Toledo's Critical Mass [bicycle ride]? Other Ohio cities have one. We need to organize one for Toledo. Get the Maumee Valley Wheelmen, the Toledo Area Bicyclists, and others involved."
What's a critical mass ride?
"Critical Mass is a monthly bicycle ride to celebrate cycling and to assert cyclists' right to the road."
"Critical Mass has no leaders, and no central organization licenses rides. In every city that has a CM ride, some locals simply picked a date, time, and location for the ride and publicized it, and thus the ride was born."
"Some CM riders try to tie up traffic as much as possible and be otherwise confrontational with motorists. Such riders are missing the point about Critical Mass. CM is a celebration of cycling, not a war against motorists. CM is about asserting our right to the road, not denying others their right to the road. Those who want to play juvenile games are encouraged to stay at home instead."
Ohio cities with CM rides:
Akron
Athens
Cincinnati
Cleveland
Columbus
Kent
Oxford
Michigan cities with CM rides:
Ann Arbor
Detroit
Grand Rapids
Kalamazoo
Lansing
Indiana cities with CM rides:
Goshen
Indianapolis
Muncie
South Bend
Interesting. Looks like CM rides exist in big cities and in college towns. Maybe that's why Toledo doesn't have one. I don't consider Toledo a college town, and it's not a big city. Toledo is a tweener.
posted by jr at 05:15 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 02, 2006 #
BTW - I heard on three radio shows today, morning, afternoon, and the eye on Toledo that this $600K figure is low. It's just the base amount that it would take to lay the pavement down. Doesnt take into consideration tree removal, ground prep, other road improvements that'd be needed along the way...
Final cost theyre estimating will be closer to EIGHT hundred grand...
posted by billy at 07:57 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 02, 2006 #
Try to pass, and sure as the sun rises some little soccer weasel will swerve in front of you.
Ever consider some big spiked BMX pedals. Clip the little bastard with one of these, and then just keep on riding. Also, I don't know whay kind of bike you ride, but get a decent Mountain Bike, work on your skills, and you can escape any problem. (Pinkney North of Ann Arbor is a great place to learn. There is a 18 mile trail that will make you bleed, and also make you want to amputate your own legs when it's all over)
You can call "on your left" til the cows come home, and these owners still won't retract the leash
As for dogs, while I do love them, when approaching a big dog with a stupid owner it never hurts to say "LAWSUIT" nice and loud. This often worked for me when jogging by a yard with an unchained Dobermain. For some reason this word gets homeowners attention.
posted by nick44 at 08:43 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 02, 2006 #
I was just down Beechway this evening and there are a lot of "No Bike Path" signs.
I don't understand the route location and would like to hear more info. You can easily go down Copland to River Road and bike or run down to Walbridge Park with very little traffic and no major street crossings. The Maumee to Downtown path sounds like a better idea. The critical mass rides sound great. I think the problem is there are not enough bike riders in Toledo. Those who are serious bikers don't won't to ride with the casual rider. The casual rider doesn't want to ride with the speedsters.
River Road from Maumee down into Waterville or Perrysburg to Grand Rapids is popular. Why not try and improve these routes?
If the majority of people on Beechway and surrounding area are opposed then who is going to use it?
posted by rickreed at 08:45 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 02, 2006 #
June 2 Blade story:
"The 2 1/2-mile path to connect the Beverly and Harvard Terrace neighborhoods is part of a plan to spend $800,000 from the capital improvement fund for new walking-biking paths in South Toledo and Point Place. The plan is to be heard June 15 by City Council."
I haven't heard much about the Point Place path.
Carty said:
"My objective is to add five miles each year [to the bike trails], … so we can do a better job of encouraging a better lifestyle for our men, women, and children and make our city stronger in the long run."
posted by jr at 09:22 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 02, 2006 #
I came home tonight from Party in the Park,and up against my garage was a brand new bike! A really nice one. Probably not one for an adult though but nice. I put it in my garage and walked down to the festival going on in my neighborhood and ask a Cop what I should do with it. He ask me if there were any birthday parties coming up.
He also said, after I said it didn't belong to me, I could call them in the morning and I had to be home for them to pick it up and that it would just go to auction. I guess I should say that this was 3 police officers hearing this conversation. They all hinted that I should just keep the bike. I looked at his badge and read his name and said "OK, I'm going to tell them you said I could keep it" They all smiled and said go ahead.
What would you do?
posted by SherryET at 10:59 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 02, 2006 #
Sherry - very interesting!
You could always ask around, if someone left it there (for some reason I can't imagine), they'd be able to describe it...or if someone stole if from the neighborhood and then left it at your house, same thing.
The police were right about it going to auction. But if it was stolen, there may be a police report on it in a couple of days and you could check that.
If you can't find the owner and don't feel comfortable keeping it, you could donate it. There are a couple of battered women shelters who take families...
As for the bike path, I'm always one for doing the mandatory things first. A bike path is not a necessity and, until all our city roads are perfect, I wouldn't support spending money on bike paths. And, having done a budget governed by the city rules (in the Clerk of Court office), I don't believe it when they say this money can't be spent on roads. Roads qualify under capital improvements - but they may need to have the votes in council to move between categories in the CIP budget.
posted by MaggieThurber at 05:45 A.M. EST on Sat Jun 03, 2006 #
Sherry, personally, I'd turn it in to the cops. Im guessing it was stolen, and after the theif got done riding it, he just left it where he was.
If you turn it in, it might go to auction, but it might also be the only way its rightful owner would be able to get his property back. Im surprised the cops didnt advise that.
I had a bike stolen once at BGSU. I went to the cops and when I got there, it was sitting right in the bullpen. I was thrilled! Then the cops said "We've got a little problem here. You're the third person to claim that bike!"
Fortunately, I could prove it was mine - as a kid, a cop came to school, and among other things, he showed us how to write our names and contact info on a strip of paper, wrap that paper around a pencil and tape it in place, and drop that pencil down the tube where the seat attaches to. All I needed to do was borrow a wrench, take the seat off, and turn the bike upside down, and my proof came dropping out. The cops were impressed. (can you imagine tho the balls it'd take to go into a police station and claim a bike that wasnt yours??)
I still have a pencil inside our bikes...
posted by billy at 06:03 A.M. EST on Sat Jun 03, 2006 #
Man, I just took a ride down Beechway - what an eye opening experience. Folks, we're not just saying 'some' of the folks on that street, or even 'the majority' of the people on that street dont want this bike path - I gave up counting all the signs and trees with red ribbons around them! It's incredible!!
These folks do NOT want this bike path running thru their neighborhood! We can sit here all day and debate why a bike path would or would not be a good thing for the city, but these folks have made their feelings known! In no uncertain terms!!
If anyone would like to take a ride on th is beautiful day, if you're coming from down town, go down the trail toward maumee, and turn left on the first street after Glendale. I believe it's Sherwood, and take Sherwood all the way to Breezeway, and turn left.
Its a gorgeous little neighborhood, and the homes are nicely kept - its obvious the folks that live there care about their street.
It makes me wonder if Carty starts this, what's next? Can anyone recall a little business called Kim's automotive?
posted by billy at 12:14 P.M. EST on Sat Jun 03, 2006 #
So let me get this straight. You’re proposing a semi-spontaneous bicycle ride involving local clubs, the Toledo Area Bicyclists and the Maumee Valley Wheelmen, who will work in conjunction with non-affiliated bicyclists in an event to celebrate cycling and to assert the bicyclists’ equal right to use the road? I’m presuming that the people involved have the necessary social skills to accomplish this, but maybe I’m wrong.
I don’t think so, JR.
Your opponent weighs over three tons and the operator is protected from all immediate harm. Moreover, they have already proven that they don’t want to share the road with bicycles. While your group of cyclists are probably nice people and fun to ride with, I really don’t think this event will help, mainly due to the people involved. You need a different group.
Contrast the Maumee Valley Wheelmen with a few other, ah, social organizations that cater to the two wheeled transportation aficionado, such as Satan’s Slaves, Gypsy Jokers, Hell’s Angels, Coffin Cheaters, Outlaws… well, you get the picture. When was the last time you saw a motorist run a bicyclist off the road? If you’re a bicyclist, are you afraid of your right of way being denied to you by a motorist? Maybe a soccer Dad in his SUV has cut you off, turned in front of you or run you off the road and just kept driving. He’s aware of what he’s done, he just doesn’t care. Now imagine that same self-sanctified gas bag having to share the road with a bunch of apes that define the phrase ‘violent criminal’. You really think soccer Dad is going to cut one of these guys off in traffic? No. Hell no. One look at these apes and soccer Dad is so scared he doesn’t even want to glance their way at the next traffic light least he make eye contact, which one of them might interpret as an invitation to some primal contest involving a crude form of physical violence. In fact, soccer Dad will probably cut his speed by ten miles an hour to let the bikers get ahead of him, and he’ll do this over the screaming of the kids that they’ll be late for the game.
Face it, these soccer people only understand one thing: Fear. If you want respect, you’ve got to get out there and demand it. Set a few examples, and the rest will fall into line.
But maybe you don’t believe me. Maybe there’s a few doubting Thomases (Thomasinas?) around here. If so, I suggest to those people that they fire up their SUV, find a group of motorcycle outlaws and run them off the road. See what happens next, then post the results as soon as you’re able to type.
posted by madjack at 03:03 P.M. EST on Sat Jun 03, 2006 #
timault:
Let them build a bike path all the way down the AWT into downtown Toledo and by the time you cross Western you won’t be running afoul of some pinhead’s golden retriever on a retractable leash. It will be an ill-tempered Rottweiler on a non-retractable length of 25 foot steel cable.
You’re right about keeping pedestrians and bicyclists separated, particularly the dog walkers, although I would like to mention the following scenario which I witnessed on a surface street. A young woman on roller blades is taking Fido, a sixty pound canine of uncertain heritage, for a little constitutional and a bicyclist rides past. Fido sees the bicycle and the old prey instinct kicks in, causing Fido to switch into chase mode. The person on roller blades gets towed, much like a water skier behind a hydroplane. Not wanting to have his ankles mauled, the bicyclist kicks it up a notch, causing Fido to switch to hot pursuit mode.
The last I saw them, the young girl on roller blades was yelling commands to Fido (including Sit!), which were being ignored. I saw the cyclist successfully navigate a turn and put the hammer down for a long straightaway. The skater and her dog motor made the corner without slowing much, and it looked like it was going to be a close race to the next intersection.
I didn’t see the finish.
posted by madjack at 03:22 P.M. EST on Sat Jun 03, 2006 #
So madjack, you're a Wold Cup Soccer fan, eh?
"I don’t think so, JR."
Which is why this town is called Toledo and not Akron, Athens, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus, Kent, Oxford, Ann Arbor, Detroit, Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, Lansing.
"I suggest to those people that they fire up their SUV, find a group of motorcycle outlaws and run them off the road."
Sounds like a hoot. Or maybe a video game or a short story. You're the owner of one the original Hummer vehicles, and your "mission" is to seek and destroy as many motocyclists as possible. Wouldn't it be fun to plow right through a big group of motorcyclists or bump a crotch-rocket rider over the hill? Surely, a video game with this idea exists. One Hummer H1 versus 100 Harley Hogs, my money is on the H1, which could take out a small forest.
posted by jr at 04:20 P.M. EST on Sat Jun 03, 2006 #
Madjack, dude, I don't what I was doing at the time, but the conclusion of that visual had to be watched to completion.
posted by BrianInFlorida at 06:04 P.M. EST on Sat Jun 03, 2006 #
For West Toledoans, there was a plan under the "Rails to Trails" continuing project to convert the Laskey rail line to a trail. You'll note that the rail line is physically CUT at a point right across from the Teledyne plant, and all points west of that is a dead line. The dead line continues onward along the Douglas/Westwood line, where it can easily join somewhat to the Willys Park, Bancroft and UT trails.
The rail line is active east of Teledyne since apparently the "General Mills" plant (ever-changingly-named, so perhaps it's Pillsbury now) still uses trains.
The tracks were yanked out of the street at Jackman. But that's all that's been done for some time, so I can only imagine that the project has stalled. West Toledoans should call their council reps and find out why it stalled.
To guess why, I'm thinking that councilmen eventually noted that that area of West Toledo is composed of working-class neighborhoods that are falling apart. The working poor are no one's constituency, hence such a trail won't be installed for them.
posted by GuestZero at 02:02 A.M. EST on Sun Jun 04, 2006 #
GZ, you're 100% on the button. I live in that district - not the exact area where the non-tracks go thru, but still, in that district - Which falls under Ellen Graychek's jurisdiction.
Ellen and I have not seen eye to eye on some issues but for the most part, I think she does a good job.
I do believe I'll bring this up with her...
posted by billy at 06:21 A.M. EST on Sun Jun 04, 2006 #
Ellen Paycheck is not interested in your concerns.
posted by Darkseid at 07:00 A.M. EST on Sun Jun 04, 2006 #
Why not make it a toll bike path. The people who use the bike path can pay for it and the tolls will be repealed when the path is paid for. Right, and the checks are in the mail.
I don’t have a problem with bike trails themselves but I would question the timing of the construction of this one. While a new bike trail might be nice, the city’s finances are in the crapper. I know if the city government blows 600k on this, it will be part of the reason why it doesn’t have money to pay police and fire the next time the city’s budget comes up.
posted by mike2004 at 07:12 A.M. EST on Sun Jun 04, 2006 #
So -- the proposed track is not on an unused railway at any part?
I grew up near the area that the new one is proposed and I think that the railway behind Beverly School is unused? Is this to be utilized as part of this proposed plan?
posted by corky at 09:01 A.M. EST on Sun Jun 04, 2006 #
Corky, you are correct. The old Beverly rail seems like a logical place to put a trail. For some reason Carty lacks that logic.
Maggie, thanks for clearing up my question about the funds being used for streets. So, if I understand this correctly, the money that is sitting here for this project could be sent back to council for reallocation to road improvements, among other things?
I remember a Blade story last year about the city's pools not having enough money to finish out the season, they closed the pools (in our area anyhow, some inner city pools remained open) weeks early because they didn't have enough money to keep them maintained through the end of the Summer.
How do we go from that last year, to having $6-800,000 lying around to use on something as frivilous as a bike path through a neighborhood that already successfully utilizes it's streets and sidewalks for walking and biking? (frivilous in comparison to necessities) On Harvard here I can look one way & see Walbridge Park, and look the other way and see the walking loop at the YMCA. It just doesn't seem like the best use of funds for a path for avid bike riders & walking enthusiasts.
I agree that a path to downtown is risky, and wouldn't seem safe for many reasons.
A share the road path down River sounds pretty good! Bikers, would that be a good use of funds? Wouldn't you rather have a path that doesn't involve a lot of stopping and starting? I also think that a path that runs from Maumee line to even the zoo down AW trail, with the option of catching Harvard down to River would be a great "loop" for bikers, too. Am I wrong? Maybe that's not an option near the golf course, but I'm just throwing some ideas out there.
It seems to me if Carty actually asked the people of these neighborhoods if they liked the idea he would have saved a lot of money up to this point. He's spent a lot of our dollars on involving a lot of city employees in selling this idea.
posted by gotoledogo at 12:01 P.M. EST on Sun Jun 04, 2006 #
And no, Corky, at no point on this trail is any unused rail line being utilized.
posted by gotoledogo at 12:02 P.M. EST on Sun Jun 04, 2006 #
ok, one more thing that I am concerned with about this project. How will the bike path end up looking after another mayor takes charge of the city & decides that it's not priority for them to provide upkeep on it? Anyone remember how long it took Jack to fix the overlook at Harvard circle???
What does THAT do to my property resale value?
posted by gotoledogo at 03:09 P.M. EST on Sun Jun 04, 2006 #
gotoledogo...pretty sure that CIP funds cannot be used for daily operations - like that of pools. Usually, the project has to have a life of at least 5 years (or some other term).
If the money is in the Capital Improvement Projects fund, it can be used for any capital project.
posted by MaggieThurber at 06:21 A.M. EST on Mon Jun 05, 2006 #
Why is that Maggie?
What about fixing roads - are roads not capital investments for the city? That have a life of over 5 years?
Schools run into this problem too. They allocate so much money into capital improvements, then when the stuff hits the fan and they dont have the funding to actually run the schools - the daily operations you refer to above - but then they still have hundreds of thousands tied up in CIP money that they cant touch for what they need.
So they go ahead and build something just to blow the CIP money because if they actually have any left over at years end, they fear they'll not get it back the next year.
Businesses shuffle internal funding around all the time to better serve their customers and maximize profit for their shareholders.
If the children are the customers of schools, and the taxpayers are the shareholders, why cant schools (or cities) do the same with their internal funding?
This is confusing to me, and Im guessing it's confusing for others too - especially when we hear them crying about no funding and want to pass another levy.
Can you help shed some light?
posted by billy at 07:02 A.M. EST on Mon Jun 05, 2006 #
I ran into this not too long ago Billy. When money is given, many times it is 'earmarked' for specific uses.
And that money cannot be used for any other reasons - as in Capital Improvement funds.
posted by katie82640 at 09:37 A.M. EST on Mon Jun 05, 2006 #
BrianInFlorida:
Believe me, I wanted to watch in the worst way, but I had my own fifty pounds of fun on a leash, and by the time we reached the corner the circus was long gone around a bend in the road.
posted by madjack at 10:08 A.M. EST on Mon Jun 05, 2006 #
okay, billy...here's an attempt to make it easier to understand...
Capital projects, under most accounting rules - and for government under most city charters and state laws - are for projects/purchases with a life of some term (usually around 5 years, depending). These are separate accounts from general operating expenses (wages, paper, stuff like like).
Usually, the money that goes INTO a capital improvement fund comes from general revenue, but is "earmarked" (as Katie) said, for the specific purpose of capital projects/purchases. Once transfered into a CIP fund (usually by a vote of the public body), it takes another vote to move them OUT of CIP. This is usually frowned up because because public bodies will always have a need for capital items like roads, buildings, major repairs (like HVAC systems, roofs, etc.).
Sometimes, there are specific levies for CIP. The Zoo and TPS are two good examples. Those levy dollars, when approved by the voters, are then restricted to the uses specified in the levy language. That's why TPS can't just take those new building dollars and move them over to operations. In the case of TPS, the local levy money was a match for state money (and the state put up a much larger percentage than we did) - leveraging TPS's ability to do much more than what the local dollars alone would have allowed. In this particular case, not only are the funds restricted by ballot language, they're also restricted by state law, as well.
My understanding of the City of Toledo capital budget is that they have a specific dollar amount in the fund. Common sense says they never use the full amount, so that they have funds for true emergencies. So, they determine how much of the total amount will be used each year for "improvements." They then allocate the agree-upon amount to various projects around the city (hopefully covering needed improvements, before "wanted" improvements) - paying attention to make sure that all districts get a portion of the money.
The last time I saw a capital budget, it had a form which indicated the project name, the category of CIP, the council district (or city-wide), the amount of the request and the amount of voted funding - once passed. There was then a description of the project.
I know that any such forms are a public record and should be available for viewing during normal business hours. It was these forms which were put into a CIP booklet, once the CIP budget was passed.
Clear as mud?
posted by MaggieThurber at 11:26 A.M. EST on Mon Jun 05, 2006 #
Pretty good Maggie, but you forgot a portion.
The reason that budgets are controlled this way is to prevent government from arbitrarily reallocating funds that were previously earmarked for new school buildings into, say, an educational think tank round table retreat in our sister city, Toledo, Spain, for Carty, city council and certain school administrators.
Or, to put it another way, if you decided to spend junior’s college fund on a new satellite dish, that’s your business. When Carty decides to spend tax dollars on a trip to Spain… well, that’s your business too.
posted by madjack at 04:08 P.M. EST on Mon Jun 05, 2006 #
thanks, madjack!
posted by MaggieThurber at 05:05 P.M. EST on Mon Jun 05, 2006 #
I think that there is a much better route to put a path of this nature. A set of abandoned railroad tracks runs from River Rd. to Glanzman. These tracks have a bridge that crosses the Anthony Wayne Trail so there will be no traffic conflicts. In addition, these tracks need cleaned up anyway, they are full of dumping and over growth. I would propose to run the path from River Road. across the Trail behind the houses on S. Detroit to Copland. Then cross Copland and run it through the Beverly School area because after the school is demolished an moved to the new site it has been said it will be turned into a park. Then cross S. Detroit by Medford and continue following the tracks behind the shops on Rugby Dr. to Glanzman. Then turn down Glanzman along the road with a short asphalt path to Pickford Park. Run it through Pickford park to the public pool and then on to Orono Dr. Down Orono to Copland Blvd. Then cross Byrne Rd. Moreover, it would at the bike trail that already exists in Copland Park. This will provide a route for people to get to the public pool also it will link three parks together. There will be ample parking at the start, in the middle at the new park where Beverly school currently is, and at Copland Park in the end. In addition, instead of disturbing the Blvds. this proposed bike route would clean up and refurbish the unused CSX rail lines. Several homes have been broken into along these unused rail lines. The suspects back there trucks down the rail lines and empty the garages into them. This bike path would prevent that because they could put up posts where the path crosses the road to prevent motor vehicles from getting down there. Most importantly, the residents along this proposed route actually want the bike route while the residents along the other proposed route do not.
posted by SteveLeggett at 07:59 P.M. EST on Mon Jun 05, 2006 #
Great idea Steve. Carty, are you listening? Maybe if you would have asked for community input you would have considered ideas like this.
Then again, probably not.
posted by gotoledogo at 08:18 P.M. EST on Mon Jun 05, 2006 #
I am all for Bike Paths...Walking Trails...using RailRoad Tracks, excellent IDEA!!!
In Tarpon Springs to St. Petersburg, Florida there is the Pinnelis Trail that once was RailRoad Tracks with a Bridge that crosses Alternate 19...Bikers, Walkers, Runners, SkateBoarders, RollerBladers...young and old alike are out...
Yes, use the Rail Road Tracks...
posted by MARIELORA at 08:52 P.M. EST on Mon Jun 05, 2006 #
Maybe Maggie knows -- aren't there grant programs that can be utilized for these rails to trails programs?
posted by corky at 09:35 P.M. EST on Mon Jun 05, 2006 #
My concern is this is dangerous and I will explain why. I live on Wildwood Rd. I use to jog from Wildwood Rd, to Watova around Fanning back up to Wildwood Blvd, and back around the loop home. The problem is that Fanning is not wide enough to make it a separate bike path. The road and bike path will run together. We learned about this during the bus tour. The engineer explained it to us. I was jogging through there once, listening to my ipod and I didn't even hear the car behind me. The road has a sharp curve and the driver did not see me either. His car bumper caught my jacket for a second, just long enough to throw me to the ground. I was not seriously injured, nor was the dog. I am a school teacher and I have some very, very serious concerns about the safety of our children. Allowing kids to ride or skate in a bike path that is also the road is so dangerous. I'm speaking from experience. I don't think people are opposed to the bike path, just it's location. Also, I know many people are concerned about the upkeep. Many times our parks are way overdue to have grass mowed. Just some things to think about and make certain safety comes first. If I had been a child unstead on my roller blades when that car came past, I might not be around right now. Also, this will be going past those houses on Watova so no one will be able to park on the street in front of their houses anymore, because of course there is to be no parking on the bike path. Just lots and lots of things to consider.
posted by mgordon at 09:37 P.M. EST on Mon Jun 05, 2006 #
mgordon, I know exactly the point on the bike path that you are talking about. It *is* dangerous there, although it is isolated there are cars that travel down that road, some do go extremely fast. One person on our bus pointed out that there was one tree that had been hit back there repeatedly. The share the road idea at that stretch is really idiotic and dangerous, even if they widen the road back there (which is what they plan to do).
I'm glad you are here to tell that story. You were so lucky.
Also, who foots the bill for the lawsuits when this widely touted safe family bike path ends up resulting in the death of a child?
posted by gotoledogo at 10:43 P.M. EST on Mon Jun 05, 2006 #
I'm with Marielora. I used to live on a dead-end street (guess it was technically called a cul-de-sac) of of Detroit Ave. near the Trail. There was a 'dead' railroad track up on the hill beyond the apartments at the end of the street, and I used to cross the old bridge that went over the trail in nice weather & walk along the tracks for excersise and relax my mind with the solitude. I thought to myself many times how nice it would be to fix up the bridge and turn it into a bike/walking trail.
The only bad thing about it was-every summer, kids would come and park in our areas, and carry their beer over the hill , cross the bridge, and party. Not a problem with me-ntil they kept keeping everyone awake all night with their screaming and racing of engines and talking/yelling. One clown terrified an 88 year old woman by giving her the finger and pissing in front of her when she looked out the window. It did virtually no good to call the cops, since their cars were parked in toledo, but once they crossed the old bridge, they were in maumee. Consequently, neither police force wanted to handle it. We finally banded together and got the toledo cops to show up one night, but basically all they did was drive 'em off. It did keep them away for a few months, though. That, I don't miss. Still, i think it would be great if they could do something with it-but it would more than likely have to be a joint venture between Toledo & Maumee, and I really don't see that happening. The last I knew, the railroad still owned the property, though.
posted by Darkseid at 05:32 A.M. EST on Tue Jun 06, 2006 #
Corky - federal grant money was used for most (if not all) the County-built trails. It's still your tax dollars, but it didn't come out of the local budgets.
Don't know if they're still offering such funds to local municipalities...probably someone from Rep. Kaptur's or Sen. Voinovich's or Dewine's office would know for sure.
posted by MaggieThurber at 06:03 A.M. EST on Tue Jun 06, 2006 #
mgordon - that is a serious concern. Are you sure that they intend to merge the pedestrian/bike path with Fanning? I can't imagine - I have been down that road and it's no place for children.
posted by katie82640 at 08:06 A.M. EST on Tue Jun 06, 2006 #
Yes, we do have to think of a SAFE ROUTE for the proposed Bike, Walking Trail...
In my opinion, the Bike/Walking Trail built on Starr Ave., is too CLOSE to the Road...
I am all for Trails being built...compared other areas of the country...we in Toledo do NOT have too many outdoor activities...such as Biking/Walking Trails...with that said...I see on Greenbelt Pkwy., a Trail of some sort...cannot help but wonder...why...there...
My opinion...the Perfect Biking/Walking Trail is...
The Pinnellas Trail, in Tarpon Springs, Florida... I made comment of this Trail earlier on this topic...The Trail is atleast 10 feet from the Road...with a bridge crossing Alternate 19...
I am providing link giving a "virtual tour"...enjoy! http://www.pinellascounty.org/virtual_tours/trail_tarpon.htm
posted by MARIELORA at 09:19 A.M. EST on Tue Jun 06, 2006 #
Here is the link to the HomePage of the Pinnellas Trail...just throwing out an idea for a wonderful Trail that all can use... http://www.pinellascounty.org/trailgd/default.htm
posted by MARIELORA at 09:24 A.M. EST on Tue Jun 06, 2006 #
there will be many more trail propositions in the next few years, so get ready Toledoans. Carty plans on making 5 miles of bike paths in your neighborhoods per year (that he's in office) whether they are in places that make sense or not, and whether you like it or not.
posted by gotoledogo at 10:50 A.M. EST on Tue Jun 06, 2006 #
How 'bout slapping an extra couple of million dollars on the zoo levy and running this bad girl through the new Africa exibit?
posted by lloyd at 11:14 A.M. EST on Tue Jun 06, 2006 #
Yes, the engineer clearly stated on our bus tour (8:00 pm) that Fanning would just be widened a bit and the bike path and road would run together through there since "traffic is so light and really is not a problem". Thinking about a child being injured or worse makes me sick. I teach school and I'm in the kid business, so this is extremely important to me. I'm not against the bike path, just unhappy and fearful of the location they have chosen. We now have a couple of signs on Wildwood Road of people in favor of the path. The signs say, "I like bikes". I like bikes too, I'm just very much concerned about the location. I hope these people with signs in their yards fully understand the dangers. I have already preached to my students (third graders) before school let out about how dangerous this will be and to avoid it if it's put in. I suppose I'm much more concerned after having a close call myself. I can also say traffic is very, very light in this area and I probably jogged through there 100 times without incident. But eventually, I had a problem. I'm praying a better route is found, one that makes everyone happy and one we can all SAFELY enjoy.
posted by mgordon at 09:37 P.M. EST on Tue Jun 06, 2006 #
If the people on Beechway, Fanning or any other street were serious about their opposition to the bike path project, they'd have egged the bus on its way past.
posted by madjack at 07:31 A.M. EST on Wed Jun 07, 2006 #
More interesting information about Carty and neighborhoods ...
http://politicsinmudville.blogspot.com/2006/06/close-park-latest-buzz.html
posted by corky at 08:16 A.M. EST on Wed Jun 07, 2006 #
Today, to answer the original posted question, I feel like the city ought to take this money - pass a resolution to free up the funds and give it to the Police and Fire departments so if one of us gets hit by a car and winds up dead our family doesn't get an invoice for having had us scraped up off the blacktop.
I think things are ridiculously out of order in the city of Toledo.
Can you imagine - there is a proposal to charge tax payers to use their own emergency services and this guy's proposing spending over a half million on a bike path.
This is ridiculous.
posted by katie82640 at 08:36 A.M. EST on Wed Jun 07, 2006 #
katie...I cannot believe the "new fees" proposed for an emergency...I also cannot believe my HomeOwners taxes are being raised AGAIN!!!
I cannot afford Toledo...I can actually live cheaper in FLORIDA!!! In FLORIDA where there is beautiful bike/walking trails...that are built safely...away from TRAFFIC!!!
Yes, GOTTA LOVE TOLEDO!!!
posted by MARIELORA at 08:42 A.M. EST on Wed Jun 07, 2006 #
I love Toledo. Love the people. The parks - the history but the mismanagement I see going on is just mind boggling.
And there are a couple of white knights here and there fighting a good fight and getting run over in the process.
I suppose they'll be getting a bill for the hit and run in the near future - I am so disgusted.
posted by katie82640 at 09:42 A.M. EST on Wed Jun 07, 2006 #
I'm catching a little of Brian Wilson's radio show on WSPD right now, and he's replaying recorded quotes of Carty spoken at a public meeting last night in South Toledo. A couple people from WSPD attended the meeting with tape recorders in hand.
Carty blasts Fred L and WSPD. Carty claimed Fred and/or WSPD is running down the city of Toledo with half-truths and lies. Pretty strong claims by the mayor. Is Carty or his administration prepared to backup those claims?
Carty also said the businesses running ads on WSPD will receive some kind of communication from the mayor's office, informing them that Fred and/or WSPD is running down Toledo.
So Carty is threatening WPSD's sponsors, eh? Unless Carty has facts to backup his claims, insn't Carty threatening the First Amendment?
From the posting guidelines for this site:
"No more topics about politicians ..."
I'll amend that. "No more topics about politicians except in the case of Carty Finkbeiner."
Praise Carty or run him into the ground. Bastard.
Someone needs to inform Carty that this isn't the mid-90's. The media scene on local radio, in local newspapers, and now with the web is a lot different than it was 10 to 12 years ago. Government can't easily sneak bullshit by the public today.
Carty also made a comment about Fred not living in Toledo even though Fred works in Toledo and pays taxes to Toledo like many people around here. Usual bilge from Toledo officials. Toledo always talks about cooperation among the communities, but they don't mean it.
Don't upset the People's Republic of Toledo or else you could be sent to a re-education camp. You'll have to spend the day with Sykes and Carty.
I hope WSPD makes the audio available on their website. It's interesting. Carty sounds maniacal. Threatening a media org is a losing proposition because that just stokes the media org.
posted by jr at 04:49 P.M. EST on Wed Jun 07, 2006 #
jr, I appreciate your insight on this, it's kind of hard to keep Carty out of topics, he seems to leech out in everything we do...
Carty sounded maniacal in the first bike path mtg and the bus tour, too. Really enjoyed making Fred look like a troublemaker.
And Fred used to live in Toledo, his church is right in south Toledo, did he move? even if, it doesn't matter.
I have yet to hear what exactly Fred has said that is a LIE
posted by gotoledogo at 10:37 P.M. EST on Wed Jun 07, 2006 #
I'm pretty surprised. He isn't far enough into his term to have established himself for a power play of this magnitude.
We could be seeing a first, but it's much more likely a last...at least as far as historical numbers.
Just think - Arnold S. is in office because Gray Davis was a recall...
Lockhart Mayor James "Jimmy" Bertram is facing a recall because citizens don't "like the way we are being governed".
Here's one from last year - slow records request response - but this is 'stalled' Mayoral Recall Stalled, Group Blames Mayor's Office
http://nbc15.madison.com/news/headlines/2044857.html
Ahh...interesting. A Mayoral recall election in Tempe: http://www.tempe.gov/clerk/recallcommonquestions.htm
I googled and hit 234,000 sites with 'Mayoral Recall'. It's being done.
http://www.news8austin.com/content/your%5Fnews/?ArID=156531
posted by katie82640 at 10:55 P.M. EST on Wed Jun 07, 2006 #
June 8 Blade story:
"With 145 parks in the city and equipment that continually breaks down, Mr. Garvin said keeping the parks maintained has become a struggle. The equipment is "just old," said Mr. Garvin, who couldn't specify how old it is."
"Toledo City Council President Rob Ludeman said overgrown grass complaints have spurred questions among council members as to how the city can afford the mayor's proposed $800,000 bike path in South Toledo when current parks aren't being maintained."
"Mr. Ludeman said the administration should consider using about $250,000 of the bike path funds to buy new mowing equipment."
"Heather Kidd, 20, who lives across from Goodwin Park in East Toledo, said grass in about half the park was 22 inches tall [Wednesday]. About six people who live near the park cut the other half on Monday night because the city won't do anything about it, Ms. Kidd said."
"Mr. Finkbeiner is now experiencing some of the budget woes that faced his successor and predecessor, former Mayor Jack Ford."
posted by jr at 12:16 A.M. EST on Sun Jun 11, 2006 #
Carty campaign promise #10 Click on Mission - "10. Establish a grass-roots neighborhood program, in which every neighborhood has representation in City Hall and will be involved in decisions impacting them. This will be modeled after the Dayton program."
I could "probably" live with this decision, even though I think the money would be better spent on projects that positively impact the most people after we take care of our top priorities. But I can not accept an edict that did not involve the community. Why did Carty not honor his promise and get the neighborhood involved first? Rhetorical question - I know the answer! If he had held a townhall meeting in this neighborhood and pitched the idea, would the neighborhood have agreed or would they have wanted the money spent in another way? And it's important to get the rest of the community involved as those not directly affected act as a counter balance to short sighted "me first" decisions.
Frankly I am sick of our local leaders giving us an idea and then telling us to accept it. Just because you won an election does not mean you are now a mind reader or that you know what is best for us. Try asking us before making decisions for us, Now there is a novel concept - not!
I'm not against bike paths - I bike frequently!
posted by sflagg at 04:31 A.M. EST on Sun Jun 11, 2006 #
Katie - if we recalled Carty, then who would we put in his place? The problem with this town is that for three Finkbeiner elections and one Ford election, the city hasnt managed to cough up any other viable candidates - we just settled for the lesser of two evils.
Think about our alternate choices - Kest? Mike Ferner? I cant remember who carty ran against in his first election, but I wouldnt have voted for him either...
I think we need to play the hand we dealt ourselves this time and hold the Hizzoner the Psycho to some accountability.
I like Lude Dude's idea about using the (and lets stop saying $600 grand and say $800K because if you pay attn, that's what it really is) to upkeep what we've got.
Did you know there are kids baseball parks in town that the grass is so long that if a ball is hit into the outfield it's an automatic double, because kids were scoring too many home runs simply because the outfield kids had to spend so much time wading thru waist deep grass and searching for the ball?
This crap is just like when Ford insisted on new brick crosswalks for his 'elegant city' mirage, while letting streets elsewhere go to hell.
This bike path idea is comprable to spending your home improvements bucks on landscaping when your roof leaks and the lock on your front door is busted. Gives it curb appeal to folks passing by, but to the people who live there, its just foolishness.
posted by billy at 05:50 A.M. EST on Sun Jun 11, 2006 #
Billy - GREAT analogy!
posted by MaggieThurber at 06:20 A.M. EST on Sun Jun 11, 2006 #
Billy - I too thought it a great analogy. When I finished reading it, I shared it with my wife. She too thought it brought greater clarity to the argument.
posted by sflagg at 07:33 A.M. EST on Sun Jun 11, 2006 #
I found this from Mayor Carty's campaign:
"To accomplish our mission, we will:
10. Establish a grass-roots neighborhood program, in which every neighborhood has representation in City Hall and will be involved in decisions impacting them. This will be modeled after the Dayton program."
http://www.cartygetsresults.com/
Go to the 'mission' page and scroll to the bottom right for the list.
The city of Toledo should feel they were lied to. Because they were.
posted by katie82640 at 04:01 P.M. EST on Mon Jun 12, 2006 #
good posts sflagg and billy - I missed them.
I don't know what the answer is billy - but you have a great point. I just know that personally I am disgusted with politicians who are so brassy about misleading us that they can put it in writing, their promises, NOT keep any of them and be so cocky it never crosses their mind to take the document down so we can't access it.
Here we have a guy who said we needed new leadership for schools, then he breaks his neck and a few inconvenient laws, trying to keep that same leadership.
We have a city with a crumbling infrastucture and one of, if not THE highest unemployment rates in the state and he gets into a pissing match with Costco.
And now a bikepath -
How do we go about holding him accountable? I saved his campaign site. I'm just tired of it.
In Toledo, unlike anywhere else I have lived, the politicans are just so in your face and confident that there are NO repercussions. They can do anything they like - break any rule, break any promise and nothing happens to them.
Ah....I need a cigarette :-) But I feel better.
posted by katie82640 at 10:03 A.M. EST on Tue Jun 13, 2006 #
WSPD story:
"River East Redevelopment Corporation, which is handling the Marina District Project is proposing the controversial bike path be built in East Toledo. They say if residents in South Toledo don't want the bike path East Toledo will take it."
"The bike path would be almost 5 miles long and stretch along the river through the Marina District. River East says it may even be cheaper to build it on the East side."
"A council committee will hold a public hearing June 15th at 10 am in council chambers."
Well, if a bike path must be built, one nearly five miles long along the river sounds good, especially if it's cheaper than the one proposed for South Toledo, which is only a couple miles or so long. Would running and walking on a bike path along the river be allowed?
posted by jr at 06:09 P.M. EST on Tue Jun 13, 2006 #
So..do you suppose that he formed a citizen's panel and got their opinion this time?
posted by katie82640 at 06:55 P.M. EST on Tue Jun 13, 2006 #
Several East Toledo organizations have been working on a bike path with TMACOG for a long time with no success in raising the necessary matching funds. There are some people involved that believe a 20% match and 80% state/federal funding mechanism may be possible.
Regarding the bike/pedestrian mixture, it is preferred to not mix the 2 for obvious reasons but the plan is to develop the entire length of riverfront in the Marina District for a public walkway with resting/gathering areas mixed in along the way. There will out of necessity be some areas where bikers and walkers/runners will share the path.
posted by steiner at 03:31 P.M. EST on Wed Jun 14, 2006 #
Is it true that the east side has been planning a bike path for 20 years?
posted by jr at 03:50 P.M. EST on Wed Jun 14, 2006 #
excuse me. I need some clarification here. Do you mean to say that the east side wants a bike path and has tried for a great length of time to fund one while the south end had an unwanted bike path being foisted upon them, complete WITH funding?!
posted by katie82640 at 06:14 P.M. EST on Wed Jun 14, 2006 #
Yes katie - that's exactly what theyre saying.
posted by billy at 06:47 P.M. EST on Wed Jun 14, 2006 #
Yup, it's true. We could never get enough Council support to allocate the match dollars. I'll try to get some of the old info and with some technical help try to make it available here.
posted by steiner at 08:47 P.M. EST on Wed Jun 14, 2006 #
Well if the east side wants it - and the west side doesn't - then why not put it on the east side?
This is such a waste of time and effort. You all seem like intelligent and communicative people - how is the mayor could be unaware of a long term effort like this? Or if he did know what in the sam hell could cause him to have taken the course that he has?
Somebody needs to hire that man a babysitter.
posted by katie82640 at 09:02 P.M. EST on Wed Jun 14, 2006 #
how is the mayor could be unaware of a long term effort like this?
Becasue farty, and i know i've said it before, lives in south toledo and thats ALWAYS his first choice. ALWAYS. and i would bet a buck that if the south toledo residents decided that they wanted it after all, east toledo would be SOL again.
posted by tm at 07:38 A.M. EST on Thu Jun 15, 2006 #
Hey this is no joke. I just checked the post for things to do this weekend on this site and the first item listed was a bike ride and dinner. Now granted it's in a park but isn't it ironic, don't ya think.
posted by steiner at 08:14 A.M. EST on Thu Jun 15, 2006 #
This just reported from the Blade:
Finkbeiner administration drops plans for South Toledo bike trail
Toledo Mayor Carty Finkbeiner’s administration announced today it is abandoning its proposal for a controversial 2.5-mile bike path through South Toledo neighborhoods.
posted by KraZyKat at 11:02 A.M. EST on Thu Jun 15, 2006 #
Yea! They listened to the majority! I hope they find new locations for such paths that people find favorable. I love bikes, just didn't like this particular location. My husband was at the meeting this morning. People were really cheering and applauding when the announcement was made that this idea was being abandoned at the south Toledo proposed location.
posted by mgordon at 05:05 P.M. EST on Thu Jun 15, 2006 #
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