I don't think the whole story is out yet.
posted by ToledoLatina at 04:16 P.M. EST on Tue Oct 24, 2006 #
As a former resident of the area where this happened I can tell you that this area is truly forgotten by law enforcement unless they are called out, and even that is a slow process. I was on the phone with a 911 operator one night in '02 for 20 minutes waiting for police to come to a business that was being destroyed by several people. By the time the police arrived 90% of the vandals were gone and they approached me asking me to positively identify anyone that went into the building (it was 2 a.m. and all involved had white t-shirts and dark pants on and the business was across the street down an alley from my home). Because I couldn't positively identify anyone the crime went unpunished and the business ultimately closed. I know many areas of Toledo are lacking for policing, but North Toledo, in my opinion, needs some serious help! Stuff like this is the exact reason we moved away and have never looked back!
posted by justsimplyholly at 08:23 A.M. EST on Wed Oct 25, 2006 #
The drug dealers on my block are unrelated to the current investigation. They've been supplying Delaware & Detroit for decades. And every year they burn another house down on my block when its about to be legally reoccupied & they're going to lose their squatters rights [2 were burned down this year].
But its OK 'cause they have relatives in the police department. Every weekday afternoon my oneway street is like a McDonald's drivethru as the independent white contractors line up for their end of the day pick-me-up.
Under Chief White the officers were finally talking reality to the residents [gangs are just role playing with ritualistic fight like dancing down the middle of the street that occasionally goes overboard -- marking their territory like a dog urinating on a marker].
But its back to Oz with Navarre apparently getting beyond his rufusal to have squad cars give Amy rides home.
One officer even told a neighbor its our fault for choosing to live in our neighborhood.
posted by robertbrundage at 03:59 P.M. EST on Wed Oct 25, 2006 #
I'd like to know how the Ass't Police Chief had a comment about it not being linked to the other recent murders before they had collected the evidence.
I'd also like to know how it is that a boarded up house has an occupant that comes and goes in a limo in that neighborhood and anybody who is smart enough to tie their shoes wouldn't know it has to be drug trade?
C'MON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I want to stand outside the Police Chief's door with a big sign that says 'THERE ARE GANGS IN TOLEDO. ADMIT IT. YOU ARE THE LAST HOLDOUT - even the Feds are here'
posted by katie82640 at 06:17 P.M. EST on Wed Oct 25, 2006 #
Toledo Police Department - the biggest reason residents flee the city for the burbs.
Lucas County Jail and Court system - the second biggest reason people flee to the burbs and out of the county. No jail space to incarcerate a criminal and prosecutors who look for reasons not to prosecute instead of how to protect the public.
posted by holland at 06:50 P.M. EST on Wed Oct 25, 2006 #
The Asst. Chief's comment was a very lame effort at stemming the immediate assumption that with all these homicides that there would be a connection. However, to even think that would work speaks volumes as to the Asst. Chief's assessment of the intelligence of Toledoans. I mean - think about it - all these killings - in a short time - and WE (the residents) aren't smart enough to connect the dots and believe the 'lack' of a connection.
If these incidents were random in nature, presenting varying causal factors, and happened in scattered areas, then perhaps there would be cause to consider varying circumstances. Such is not the case.
Until the ostriches downtown pull their collective heads out of the sand, realize that there is no shame in admitting there is a problem and asking for other agencies to help, and then letting those agencies help - this problem will continue to plague Toledo. And IMO it's gonna get worse before it gets better.
These types of murders contain a message, albeit cryptic, that is being sent to other drug traders/gangbangers in the area. The appearance of mutilation tactics combined with assassination style shooting will tell even an amateur that there are some folks in town that are well connected, unafraid, and serious. Their mindset is sort of KamiKaze in style, and most of them, when faced with a standoff with law enforcement, will choose 'suicide by cop' over the shame of arrest. Arrest portrays loss of control and failure.
These folks are intelligent (yes - they are), organized, on schedule, and living on a double edged high - power and fear. They have made a career out of bad choices that have paid off in better money than a union job, freedom to travel, constant adrenalin rushes, and a personna that lets them feel in control.
This last set of murders is not, IMO, the end of the story. I am going to remain vigilant. I would suggest that the rest of Toledo does the same. We cannot prevent or stop what is going on, but we can protect ourselves and our families.
And Kate - if you put that sign on and stood outside Navarre's office he would still deny that there is a problem in Toledo. It's a head in the sand thing.
posted by DoknowDocare at 06:59 P.M. EST on Wed Oct 25, 2006 #
So any solution oriented suggestions? As in how to get a new police chief?
I mean, I hear this is a very nice man - but we're talking about a city that's being infiltrated by gangs...executions,,,Federal investigations. We're wayyyy past the point where his denial of the issue is acceptable....
posted by katie82640 at 07:10 P.M. EST on Wed Oct 25, 2006 #
Kate - Mike Navarre IS a nice man. But nice folks sometimes aren't successful when it comes to earning the "Pr*ck of the Year" award and pushing the envelope. Personally, I would rather have a Take No Prisoners Chief than one nice guy.
The one small tactic that I can recommend to make things better is to cultivate and grow a strong and respectful relationship between TPD and the public. TPD suffers from a terrible public perception - and right or wrong there are ways to begin to get past that. While there are groups of citizens that are willing to start the process, there are those that are 'in the know' that either don't want it to be successful or just aren't willing to try.
If there was a equitable relationship between TPD and the public there would be a much more open exchange of information, help, and a willingness to participate and take responsibility for our futures. Unfortunately, I don't see this happening at a local level any time soon.
Perhaps if certain ideas are pitched to legislators they will be taken to heart and then local agencies will be encouraged to participate.
posted by DoknowDocare at 07:23 P.M. EST on Wed Oct 25, 2006 #
Excerpt from an article at APA (American Planning Assocation) - read down a few paragraphs. There is a considerable amount of dialogue going on regarding privatizing security/city police agencies.....and there is a good argument for it. Much more cost effective and result oriented. Responsive to the citizens because they work for them.
"Gated communities are part of a broader privatization movement, which in turn is linked to a growing skepticism about government's ability to police streets, stabilize neighborhoods and property values, and generally look after the public realm. "
I guess I'm saying if you own something that's broke and can't be repaired, ditch it and go buy the latest and greatest!
posted by katie82640 at 07:47 P.M. EST on Wed Oct 25, 2006 #
Also from that article is this excerpt:
But no matter who builds them, gated and walled communities are intended as private havens. And it is this separateness that has attracted criticism. "Gating is an outgrowth of not wanting anything in our backyard that is different from us," says consultant Daniel Lauber, AICP, of River Forest, Illinois. "A black person who shows up in one of these places is likely to get busted. They reinforce the tendency to categorize people by race and sex, which only intensifies our social problems."
This is the type of thing that we really don't want to foster. To live in a sterile environment is not healthy. Pure and simple. That type of existence leaves people unable to cope with the diversity that abounds in the workplace, social situations, etc. Hence it breeds more untenable situations.
Before we privatize law enforcement in an effort to provide a cure for a 'broken' system, we would be better off to demand, and engage, the cooperation of the system we have.
The frustration of the general public is unnerving, but I assure you, there is an equal level of frustration from the officer's side of the fence. But that's a conversation that's better left for face to face. It loses way too much when written.
posted by DoknowDocare at 08:28 P.M. EST on Wed Oct 25, 2006 #
What happened to taking down license plate numbers, jotting down the discription and time visitors came to the boarded up house. Did anyone in this neighborhood complain to the police or contact the Drug Task Force?
Sorry, I'm thinking back to the late 80's early 90's when there was a drug house next door to us and the steps we took. We didn't put it out there what we were doing, for fear of retaliation but we did what we had to do to keep our block safe for our kids. We were in constant contact with a police detective and giving them information on a weekly basis. They moved after 2yrs and another couple of years before they were arrested and sent to jail.
Another thing, 40mins to call after you hear gun shots? And from reading the news stories, there were plenty of bullets fired. We as Toledoans can't just blame the police for not being there, if your not doing yourself and family a favor by calling 911, even if its anonymous.
My Rant!
posted by ToledoLatina at 09:31 P.M. EST on Wed Oct 25, 2006 #
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