I don't typically frequent malls, but it certainly seems that in the last 10 - 15 years they have become the babysitters for pre and early teens.
posted by DoknowDocare at 09:51 A.M. EST on Sat Jan 13, 2007 #
"So, you parents out there - do you ever just drop off your early-teen kids at the theater and pick them up later? Will you still be doing it?"
I did this last night. Dropped her off at the Borders bookstore entrance at 7:00 p.m. and picked her up in front of Borders at 9:30 p.m. It's too congested to drop off and pickup by the theaters' entrance. And we'll only allow her to go to the early evening movies, which will probably have less trouble.
From the news story billy linked to:
"The fight was reported about 11:35 p.m. in the upstairs area outside the movie theater. Extra police crews had been called to the movie theater area of the mall about 9 p.m. for groups of suspected gang members there."
I live in West Toledo, so taking her to the Westfield Franklin Park mall movie theaters is convenient for me, but she meets friends from other areas of Toledo and the burbs, so they should be okay with going to the theaters at Levis Commons or in Maumee.
Since it doesn't seem Westfield will get a handle on the Friday/Saturday night situation, I won't have any problem taking my stepdaughter to the movie theaters in the burbs. I've already talked with her about this story this moring. Thanks for posting this, billy.
Related topic: December 10, 2006 thread titled Pair arrested after brawl at the mall.
That's why I prefer watching plays. I haven't seen any brawls outside the Village Players or Toledo Repertoire theatres.
posted by jr at 10:25 A.M. EST on Sat Jan 13, 2007 #
My wife and I watched a play at the Rep just before Christmas.
If you park in the parking lot between Easy Street and the Rep, you can do dinner and a play (and if you want, back to Easy Street for cocktails after the play) without having to move your car.
It was a great evening.
posted by billy at 11:03 A.M. EST on Sat Jan 13, 2007 #
I was at the mall last Saturday. My son wished to spend some time with a young lady he had met. Her mother and I walked the mall while those two walked and talked for a bit.
The Mom developed chest pains, complained of not being able to get her breath - ok, I thought she was having a heart attack.
I asked a Franklin Park SECURITY guard (not TPD officer) for some water and he said no. Motioned to the food court vendors and walked away.
By the time I stood in line and got the water, she had gone into the ladies room. Her son, daughter and my son waited in the food court.
A Toledo Police officer showed up in the hall outside of the restroom and I told him what was happening - and that she was not verbally responding in the bathroom.
He was fantastic. Said to go in and call her one more time and if she didn't answer he would handle it. She did answer - came out and the officer asked her alot of questions and related he wanted her to see a doctor. She said she was feeling better and he still stayed quite a few minutes. Until he was sure she was ok. Then made her promise to see a doctor.
I was so impressed with that guy. Upset enough that I didn't get his name or badge number.
But tell your kids if they are up there to look for the uniformed police officers if there is trouble. In my experience mall security is apathetic.
posted by katie82640 at 12:42 P.M. EST on Sat Jan 13, 2007 #
Once again where are the parents of these kids who were involved in the fights? These kids needs to be accompanied by an adults at all times up to the age of 17.999 IMO. Parents needs to be held accountable regardless since they are the ones who brought them into this world.
This news is not going to make me stop going to Westfield Franklin Park because the article didn't state what the actual story is. Just stated an arrests and that's all; it could be a horseplay or it could rowdiness. Who knows! But all in all, I believe the mall should do mandatory curfew and set a policy that all 17 and younger kids are to be with an adult at all times when inside the mall.
The media thrives on stories like this and it's sad they can't get the full story of the incident. There are so many incidents of kids fighting elsewhere around town that goes unreported through the media; and don't be fooled that it only happens at the mall because that is so far from the truth.
posted by HolyHolyToledo at 01:41 P.M. EST on Sat Jan 13, 2007 #
Does the City of Toledo have an ordinance that covers teenagers and curfew?
posted by corky at 02:45 P.M. EST on Sat Jan 13, 2007 #
Corky - this is the curfew law in Toledo
If you are under the age of 11, your restricted hours are from: 10:00 p.m. until 5:00 a.m.
If you are between the ages of 11 and 15, your restricted hours are from: 11:00 p.m. until 5 a.m.
If you are 16 or 17 years old, your restricted hours are from:
12:00 Midnight until 5:00 a.m.
IT'S THE LAW!!!
Taken from the City of Toledo website.
posted by DoknowDocare at 04:10 P.M. EST on Sat Jan 13, 2007 #
Katie, I'd make a deal with their supervision in re BOTH the bad and the good of your experience, whether you got names/badge numbers or not.
Judging by the fights and your experience, the security the mall has hired appears to be the same company that Ghettowyck hired.
If I had any respect for the mayor's office, I'd report it there, but, well you know - f*ck Carty.
posted by billy at 07:25 P.M. EST on Sat Jan 13, 2007 #
The only hours that seem to be mildly "on target" are the ones for 16-17 year olds. The others seem to be way too liberal.
posted by corky at 09:08 P.M. EST on Sat Jan 13, 2007 #
Were those disruptive people dressed in Yellow coats with radio station call letters on their backs?
posted by max at 09:31 P.M. EST on Sat Jan 13, 2007 #
It seems the Westfield management still isn't doing enough to control their crowds. If they can't do the job, their customers won't shop there and the mall will become a Southwyck.
posted by toledojim at 09:52 P.M. EST on Sat Jan 13, 2007 #
Movie theaters+Westfield mall=trouble.
Said so when the expansion/renovation was ongoing.
Without theaters there, mall stores close by 9:30, by 10 all dark and quiet except for couple restuarants which would not be attracting the after 10 teen-trouble crowd.
Besides the teen-hangout issue, theaters at malls only add to parking and overall-conjestion woes.
I realize this concept works elsewhere and not all fights at Westfield have been in the vicinity of the theaters. But, I'm willing to bet many of those kids wouldn't be at Westfield to begin with if not for the theaters, at least at night.
posted by McCaskey at 09:54 P.M. EST on Sat Jan 13, 2007 #
Here is an irony which I realize sounds very draconian -- if the theatres actually enforced the ratings systems for the movies then the parents of these kids would have to accompany them to these movies.
posted by corky at 10:43 P.M. EST on Sat Jan 13, 2007 #
What the ratings mean . . .
http://www.mpaa.org/FlmRat_Ratings.asp
posted by corky at 10:46 P.M. EST on Sat Jan 13, 2007 #
In defense of the kids, of the 5 people arrested the Blade only mentions one as a juvenile. An 18 year old is still a kid in my eyes, but he's a man according to the law. All the talk of curfews and Parents may be nil. I don't want too throw the 99.999% of the kids at the mall under the bus.
On my daughters last birthday I gave her $100 so her and two friends could go nuts at the mall for a few hours, dropped them off. They had a great time, and the mall was happy to take her money. Didn't worry about it. During the day of course.
Westfield mall is the last business in Toledo that wants any kind of restriction between teens and their spending habits. If you want to plant the get out of Toledo seed in a teenagers mind tell them they can't go to the mall without direct Parental supervision, etc.
posted by Bruno at 11:08 P.M. EST on Sat Jan 13, 2007 #
All the eight kids that were arrested where from the ages of 13-16 (technically minors!); 5 girls and 3 boys, yet 5 were charged for rioting acts. The fights were between girls over a boy. How silly. Now how about the responsibility of the parents???????? I say bust their chops along with the kids.
posted by HolyHolyToledo at 07:26 A.M. EST on Sun Jan 14, 2007 #
Todays Blade article mentions the ages, so OK.
Funny about the "suspected" gang members being on their best behavior, it's the teen girl terror squad we should be worried about. I've had the talk with my Daughter-she knows a few girls who talk tough/flash gang signs/make up stories about past gang affiliations. The reality is the girls are just scared 13 year old white girls from Sylvania. And it's true, sometimes the Parents don't care. My Daughter has had problems with the teen girl terror squad in the past, and I got involved. Now those parents care, at least when it involves the Bruno kid.
posted by Bruno at 09:39 A.M. EST on Sun Jan 14, 2007 #
So the kids involved in the fight, with the exception of the 16 yr old(s) were in curfew violation. It would be lovely if the city would start enforcing the curfew law. And I would be willing to bet that the movie they were seeing was not PG either. Yet no article I've read mentions the movie they were attending.
The theaters need to get better at ID'ing people for "R" rated movies.
Quite a few people, including the parents first and foremost, need to start doing a better job of the laws and policies already on the books. It's far too soon for the newly renovated Franklin Park Mall to go the way of Southwyck.
posted by gotoledogo at 12:15 P.M. EST on Sun Jan 14, 2007 #
Does the city charge Westfield's management for every time the TPD responds to an altercation?
I mean since they tack a fee on responding to everything else I would imagine that they would charge a fee for doing security at the mall since the mall isn't paying for adequate security.
posted by MikeyA at 01:31 P.M. EST on Sun Jan 14, 2007 #
It always surprises me when I see these stories about Westfield, because I have a pleasant experience every time I go there. Of course, it may be the time of day that I choose to go - I don't tend to go to the mall area in the late evening, except on the rare occasion we might go to Bravo.
McCaskey made a good point that the kids wouldn't be at the mall that time of night if not for the movie theater. Perhaps that is part of the problem. Still, it seems a shame that a few bad apples have to spoil it for everyone. I remember going to the mall on a Saturday evening when I was in high school, then catching the 9:30 movie after the stores closed. It was a good place to mingle and meet other teens. Of course, none of the people I hung out with were troublemakers. I'm sure that there are well behaved teens who make good use of the facilities available at the mall - shame that a few rowdy ones try to ruin it for them.
posted by mom2 at 02:19 P.M. EST on Sun Jan 14, 2007 #
I currently go to school in Dayton and I know that the Dayton Mall has a Must Be 16 policy on the weekends in the mall. Sounds like something like this could really help at Westfield, though I don't know how they could effectively enforce this with a movie theater being there too. I remember being surprised to see that the movie theater was so openly connected to the mall when it first opened after renovations. I sort of wish they would have done things like it used to be, where there was a theater seperate from the mall but in the same parking lot, or even just redone the cinema on Secor, which is now just a big empty eye sore.
posted by craigoryud at 09:11 P.M. EST on Sun Jan 14, 2007 #
Gee whiz - the solution would seem so obvious. I must be missing something - but then I so often do.
Post a staff person outside the theater entrance (s) to check id.
Now, nobody already does this,,,,oh so at a night club?
posted by katie82640 at 11:21 P.M. EST on Sun Jan 14, 2007 #
Southwyck Mall had theaters inside which attracted an element that became increasingly rowdy and disruptive. Over time, this as much as anything lead to the decline of the mall. Westfield FP is standing at a crossroad now. They better find a way to deter this behavior - competent security and enforce laws with max penalties - or prepare for a fate similar to Southwyck. The problem kids aren't bringing and revenue to the mall, but those of us who do will find safer places to spend our dollars.
posted by RJ at 11:05 A.M. EST on Mon Jan 15, 2007 #
I think the parents need to be held accountable also. If the child causes a disturbance, there must be a legal penalty for the parents, isn't there?
That might deter the parents who drop kids off who have exhibited behavioral problems and the parents do not stay to supervise.
Not that I beat my kids - but I asked my son what did he think I would do if he had been involved in this. His eyes got really wide and he said "Oh, I don't know". (I didn't know either but he'd have been in as much trouble as I could think up)
posted by katie82640 at 11:52 A.M. EST on Mon Jan 15, 2007 #
I don't buy the theory that it's just the theaters that cause the disruptance. Sure Westfield and Southwyck had problems with this but rather than just say the correlation between these two is a fact of what is happenening is overlooking the real problem.
I would use Briarwood Mall in Ann Arbor as an example. It too has a movie theater. It's quite accessible from the road. Yet this mall does not have the same problems. So the correlation is just a correlation and actually does not show the real cause for the disruptance.
I'd say that inadequate security on behalf of the mall is the reason. By keeping the traffic flow of people especially kids moving there'd be less of a problem. I also think that katie poses a good point by checking ID's.
I think the mall should be "banning" more people if they have a problem in the mall. By cracking down and not allowing those children back on the premises and holding their parents accountable for the resulting trespassing if the child comes back would be a good way to curb the problem or at least show the community that the mall is serious on security issues.
posted by MikeyA at 02:01 P.M. EST on Mon Jan 15, 2007 #
Doesn't it strike anyone as peculiar that a mall would readily ban paying customers? Teenage girls spend money quite frivolously; so, the mall wants teenager money ... but not teenager behavior. The mall is constantly in a certain conflict of interest when it comes to dealing with that sort of crowd.
posted by GuestZero at 07:31 P.M. EST on Mon Jan 15, 2007 #
And so it goes...
Overheard today at breakfast with a couple co-workers:
M: So, you guys have any plans for the weekend?
C: Just the movies, my husband wants to go see that movie about Marshall.
M: Franklin Park?
C: No - Maumee. We dont do movies at 'Gangfield' any more...
M: GANGfield???
C: Well? Thats what the kids are calling it...
Ya know - when a place gets a 'rep' accompanied with a nickname, sometimes it's hard to get rid of. Silly thing like that could really end up being a major thorn in their side. Here this lady wont let her kids go there any more, and figures in leading by example, her and her husband wont be going there either.
posted by billy at 07:24 A.M. EST on Thu Jan 18, 2007 #
Doesn't it strike anyone as peculiar that a mall would readily ban paying customers? Teenage girls spend money quite frivolously; so, the mall wants teenager money ... but not teenager behavior. The mall is constantly in a certain conflict of interest when it comes to dealing with that sort of crowd.
If they did bannings on a case by case basis, it might work. The teenagers who are causing the trouble most likely are primarily there to loiter, not spend money. (Aside from perhaps the occasional beverage purchase, maybe a small retail purchase.) The teenagers who are there to actually shop are generally too busy w/said shopping to cause any problems.
(At least, that's what I remember from back in my teenager days - I suspect it still comes close to holding true today.)
posted by mom2 at 09:34 A.M. EST on Thu Jan 18, 2007 #
Doesn't it strike anyone as peculiar that a mall would readily ban paying customers? this happens all the time.
A friend of mine is banned from Walmart because he was shopping there put his merchandise down because he forgot his wallet in his car. When he returned security was waiting and informed him he couldn't go back to Walmart because they suspected him of attempting to shoplift. They said his actions were suspicious. Having worked with the individual I can say I wouldn't beleive he'd shoplift with reasonable certainty.
Now I'm not saying his banning is right or wrong but I will say the Walmart in particular doesn't have much crime while the Target right down the street does. Hence Walmart gets more business despite Target's better location.
posted by MikeyA at 10:00 A.M. EST on Thu Jan 18, 2007 #
Syndicate ToledoTalk
