Discussion at the Glass City Jungle. I posted a comment there, but it was removed by psyche777 or the blogging software she uses, which is odd because I posted a comment or two in another thread at GCJ within the past week, and they didn't disappear, and I used the same e-mail address and username.
But I have had other comments removed from GCJ in the past. Maybe her software doesn't like what I say. I saved my comment from last night about Carty and Wood County in case it vanished, so here it is. I know it won't vanish from this thread.
psyche777 said: "... and the whole Bass Pro thing that Toledo lost out on."
Hold on. Toledo never lost Bass Pro because Toledo was never in the running for Bass Pro. Northern Wood County was the first choice for Bass Pro. If you recall, it was Toledo who kidnapped the Bass Pro president, or whoever was visiting here, and took him on a helicopter ride of Toledo. That Bass Pro dude was here to see Wood County, not Toledo.
From Carty's prepared statement:
"Wood County officials, rather than develop their tax base by attracting NEW employers to the region ..."
What about Bass Pro and everything that's planned around it? That's new. And Carty tried to steal the Bass Pro deal from Wood County. So much for regional cooperation from the C-man. What a hypocrite Carty is.
But because of the joint economic development zone agreement between Toledo and Rossford, Toledo will still make money from Bass Pro and all the other development near Bass Pro.
From a June 14, 2006 Toledo Free Press story:
"Guided by attorney and former mayoral candidate Keith Wilkowski, Toledo and Rossford formed a joint economic development zone agreement in 1992. To fulfill the agreement, Toledo provides water to a designated area in Rossford. In return, Rossford pays Toledo for the water services and gives Toledo a substantial portion of income tax revenue — 27 cents of every dollar generated from employee income tax and net business profits."
Oh, back in the spring, didn't Toledo City Council grant Carty's wish of stealing business from private ambulance owners? Real business-friendly. Of course, this terrible action was justified because other cities do it.
Hasn't Carty bragged when a business moved from the suburb into Toledo?
Remember not too long ago when Carty said:
"No one contacted me and asked me if I could be of assistance in any way. They're bailing on Toledo."
Carty was ripping on the Zenobia Shriners of Northwest Ohio. That's Northwest Ohio. The Shriners serve the region. They are remaining in the region. Instead of thanking and praising the Shriners for all the work they have done for so many yeas, Carty criticizes them. Carty names a street after former fire chief Mike Bell, but Carty pisses on the Shriners.
Carty's hissy fit on Thursday simply gives the other communities, especially the ones in Wood County, more reason to laugh at Toledo and Carty.
Carty should ask his good friend Larry Dillon about all that development called Levis Commons. Does Carty consider Larry Dillon, the Marina District and Southwyck developer, part of the problem because of Larry's sprawl development in Wood County? Where do you think the new OI is? Would OI have moved to an empty field if Larry's Levis Commons did not exist?
And how about the dueling rib-offs? From my July 16, 2006 comment:
"This rib-off fiasco is a small example of why other communities don't trust Toledo nor want to work with Toledo on unigov/regionalism ideas. The downtown rib-off moved to Maumee. Instead of Toledo working with Maumee to promote the region, Toledo decides to create its own to compete with Maumee. So much for co-operating with other communities. Toledo doesn't yet grasp the concept of Lake Erie West."
"Remember, the rib-off that moved from Toledo to Maumee is called the Northwest Ohio Rib-off. It wasn't called the Toledo rib-off, and it's not now called the Maumee rib-off. It's Northwest Ohio, but apparently, Toledo doesn't realize that Northwest Ohio includes other towns besides Toledo."
"Toledo only thinks of itself when it starts talking about the benefits of unigov or regionalism. If Toledo cannot work with another community on something as trivial as a rib-off, how can Toledo be trusted to work fairly on more complicated projects?"
United Health Services had valid reasons for choosing a new location in the fall of 2005. Yet, this was obviously too much for Carty to handle in 2006.
My guess is few if anyone outside Toledo trusts Toledo officials when the topic of unigov (county-wide) or regionalism (multiple counties) comes up. Why should other communities trust Toledo?
Something else Carty needs to think about: population loss.
From the July 8, 2007 Toledo Blade story:
"Tuffy Associates Corp. is in the midst of moving its 42-person national headquarters office from 5577 Airport Hwy. in Toledo to 7150 Granite Circle in Sylvania Township. Chief Financial Officer Karen Vellequette said only two employees reside in the city. “The rest of us live in Michigan, Perrysburg, Waterville, the suburbs. Some of them don’t get credit for the [2.25 percent] Toledo [wage] tax,” Ms. Vellequette said. Moving out of Toledo effectively results in a pay raise for most of the firm’s employees."
In the June 2006 Blade story about Toledo's continual population loss, Frank Szollosi said:
"It's an indication that taxes are too high in Toledo."
Yet, Council passes a new city tax this past spring, that some call a garbage fee. And of course, we know about the questionable spending on what could be called unnecessary projects. And don't overlook the struggling Toledo Public School system as a reason why people and businesses move to the burbs. It all adds up over time.
Carty blaming Wood County for Toledo's problems is a deflective tactic. The blame goes to past and present Toledo officials for creating the opportunity for northern Wood County to become the hottest development area in northwest Ohio.
posted by jr at 07:57 A.M. EST on Fri Jul 20, 2007 #
Toledo has an immense 20th century infrastructure to maintain while Wood county has little in the way of infrastructure and is just now converting cornfields into development and can put in 21st century infrastructure.
How many city streets does Toledo have? How many sewers, signs, light poles, traffic signals, waterlines, curbs, etc. to maintain? And once they are added, it is rare for them to be removed. They all cost money. Maybe the city would be served by trying to trim down their infrastructure...? They could start with all the traffic lights on Secor between Central and Executive parkway. Also, remove some of the signals on Reynolds. And how many alleyways have maybe 2 houses still on them, the rest vacant lots?
To pay for all this infrastructure, Toledo and Lucas county collect taxes... but the taxes pay for common use items that many people and businesses no longer need. Wood county is next door and doesn't have the infrastructure or the taxes.
So, since 'you can't fight city hall', they move away. Simple.
That's not poaching or piracy, it is Econ 101.
posted by timault at 09:18 A.M. EST on Fri Jul 20, 2007 #
Carty's way of thinking - Toledo gets business, it's good for the whole area, but if other cities in the area get business, that's not the case.
posted by billy at 09:36 A.M. EST on Fri Jul 20, 2007 #
...can't help but notice this line in the article.
"Mayor Carty Finkbeiner yesterday accused Wood County of economic development "poaching," an apparent reference to Toledo business FedEx Ground's search for a new site."
....Isn't that on Reynolds Road just north of Angola? You know, where they have the road all tore up and down to one lane. I've driven that road a few weeks ago (by mistake) during rush hour and saw 3 of their semis lined up trying to turn left... there was no way they were going to get in anytime soon.
FedEx ground should locate to somewhere they can easily get in and out, and they already have a site near Owens...
posted by timault at 10:02 A.M. EST on Fri Jul 20, 2007 #
his outrage is probably a "preemptive" strike. if fedex leaves, carty has already told people why it happened. could it be his way of managing the story and/or expectations?
posted by wholesaler1972 at 01:41 P.M. EST on Fri Jul 20, 2007 #
jr- You post is on glass city jungle now.
posted by BGGrad at 03:43 P.M. EST on Fri Jul 20, 2007 #
....Isn't that on Reynolds Road just north of Angola
I drive that road twice a day, and it's a mess. Potholes, bumps, etc-it's from the trucks, but that's why Fed Ex pays taxes. Fed Ex trucks must swing out into the other lane of traffic getting out, and as mentioned sit in the left turn lane for awhile.
I'm sure Wood Co is promising a nice wide, smooth road, maybe even with timed signals. Fixing Angola may not be everything, but it's a start.
posted by Bruno at 04:53 P.M. EST on Fri Jul 20, 2007 #
"jr- You post is on glass city jungle now."
I bet the problem was my comment had a link back to Toledo Talk, and the anti-spamming software that Wordpress uses probably found the toledotalk.com domain name on some spamming list. I've always had a suspicion that "toledotalk.com" could be on such a list, but I never looked into it. Could be due to spammers harvesting and spoofing the "admin" e-mail account at Toledo Talk, or maybe the server hosting Toledo Talk was used as an e-mail relay at one time.
posted by jr at 08:19 P.M. EST on Fri Jul 20, 2007 #
June 2, 2007 blog posting titled Is Akismet Wrongly Blocking Your Not-Spam Blog Comments?
Akismet is the anti-spamming tool developed by the Wordpress team.
"Akismet is a powerful tool to block spam comments on your blog, in fact it blocked over 400,000 spam comments since this blog started. But the intelligent spam solution might interpret your valid, non-spam comments as spam and block them."
"When a new comment, trackback, or pingback comes to your blog it is submitted to the Akismet web service which runs hundreds of tests on the comment and decides if it is spam. It saves the spam in the database for 15 days in case you want to check it out manually and then automattically deletes it."
My comment may have been too long and contained too many links. Who knows? Maybe I mentioned the word "Carty" too many times.
posted by jr at 08:40 P.M. EST on Fri Jul 20, 2007 #
My comment may have been too long and contained too many links. Who knows? Maybe I mentioned the word "Carty" too many times.
allrightythen, let's talk about you for a little while longer.
...snoozefest...
The boredom associated with spam-blocking tools for a given website has been achieved.
posted by AirTrainer at 09:43 P.M. EST on Fri Jul 20, 2007 #
"... let's talk about you for a little while longer."
Indeed, let's. I spent the day at the Ann Arbor Art Fair on Friday. Fair or no fair, I love that town. You don't realize how lame Toledo is until you've driven 40 minutes north and spent some time in Ann Arbor. Mud Hens, a new arena, won't matter. T-town will never come close to being as fun and eclectic as Ann Arbor.
But for the neanderthals that occupy Toledo, minor league baseball and some backyard, goon hockey league is apparently satisfying enough. Downtown Toledo planners must have forgotten that over 360 days exist in a calendar year.
Carty and his band of merry clowns should look north for ideas on improving downtown Toledo, instead looking south with disdain over what's happening in the soybean fields.
"Kirk Westphal, a recent graduate of the University of Michigan's Master of Urban Planning program, examines what makes a downtown district appealing in this 19-minute documentary."
posted by jr at 08:27 A.M. EST on Sat Jul 21, 2007 #
jr, I agree. While I haven't been to the fair yet in Ann Arbor I have been there a few times on a "mini vacation." I love their downtown area and the variety of different things to see and do that AREN'T related to sports. That's my biggest beef with all the downtown Toledo renaissance plans. Everything revolves around sports.
posted by dell_diva at 08:35 A.M. EST on Sat Jul 21, 2007 #
FedEx just needs to move to an area that will have little impact and is already primed for what they do - the SW Corner of the airport. Right next to the interstate, plenty of room to grow, and even the ability to maybe bring in some additional air support (read: jobs) if things go well.
posted by JustaSooner at 10:14 P.M. EST on Sat Jul 21, 2007 #
Excellent video clip on AA.
I make it a point of taking my family up there three-four times a year, about once each season.
While my wife and I have been going up there on occasion for years, it 2-3 years ago that my kids were old enough to appreciate an atmosphere like that. Their faces lit up seeing the stores, eateries, bookshops, and hearing the music coming from those types of venues. And, as always, the people. Even at 8 and 12 years old, I could sense they instinctively understood this was just a cool, fun place to hang out for an afternoon or evening.
The fact that it's a college town makes all the difference and it would be pleasant fantasy to envision an area along Bancroft St. by UT, that, even on a much smaller scale, could be similar to AA. But, odds are even a small area of shops, bars and restuarants that might more people to that area would clash and have trouble co-existing with the beautiful residential area of Old Orchard.
The downtown area of Bowling Green does present an attractive local college-town alternative, not on the level of AA, but better than nothing.
posted by McCaskey at 12:28 A.M. EST on Sun Jul 22, 2007 #
jr -when you refer to neanderthals that occupy Toledo I hope you are speaking of government. I love Toledo and will NEVER be ashamed to admit it. Perfect size and perfect proximity. Yes, A2 is nice and its a proven fact that its the most educated city in the country - but I would get sick of the constant "go". I like to visit a place like that, not live there.
posted by Ryan at 05:53 P.M. EST on Sun Jul 22, 2007 #
I think jr's video simply points out that there are examples of thriving down town areas less than an hour away. We only need to go look.
You might not like the constant 'go', but if that's the case, then stay in the burbs.
I work down town, and when I go into the office on weekends to do some extra work, aside from baseball days,down town is eerie it's so dead.
AA's got it going on.
posted by billy at 07:35 A.M. EST on Mon Jul 23, 2007 #
AA's got it going on.
It does, I completely agree.
But realistically, I don't think you can make a fair comparison between AA and Toledo.
One's a compact college town, the other a larger manufacturing-based city.
What we do have of course is the river and that's why 'the docks' area has been such a success. But to have an area in downtown Toledo close to what AA has, those restuarants would have to be mingled with shopping on the downtown side of the river.
We can't be Ann Arbor, but we can certainly be something better than we are now.
posted by McCaskey at 10:05 A.M. EST on Mon Jul 23, 2007 #
My wife and I made a day trip to Ann Arbor about two weeks ago.We walked around the downtown area and what I noticed was nothing more than a bunch of high end restaurants,bars and small shops.We also noticed a lot of empty store fronts as we walked around.Also, for those of you that don't like parking meters and are always complaining about having to pay for parking in Toledo you might not want to go to AA.Their parking meters make Toledo's look like a bargain.Don't get me wrong, we enjoyed our trip ,but I don't see where AA has much to do other than to eat or browse small shops.For us it's a nice place to visit, but we would much rather live in Toledo than AA.We didn't see what the big deal is about AA.It looked like a typical college town to us.We won't be going back soon except to maybe take in the art fair next year.
posted by buckeye277 at 11:32 A.M. EST on Mon Jul 23, 2007 #
Perhaps something we all can agree upon is one of the postitive aspects about Toledo is it's only a 40-minute drive or so to Ann Arbor, so we can easily visit a town that has alot of attributes many wish Toledo had.
posted by McCaskey at 02:18 P.M. EST on Mon Jul 23, 2007 #
FedEx is not leaving Toledo. It's not possible because Toledo has a new I-280 bridge that allows Michiganders and truck drivers to bypass Toledo more easily.
May 25, 2007 Blade story:
"State Sen. Teresa Fedor (D., Toledo) said the bridge will put Toledo on the map, and it will be part of the city’s culture and a symbol of Toledo’s pride."
"Lucas County Commissioner Tina Skeldon Wozniak said motorists will recognize the bridge when they visit, much like visitors recognize landmark bridges in major cities including San Francisco and New York."
"Following the bridge’s profile ever upward, Toledo could become truly one of the great cities of the world, Mayor Carty Finkbeiner remarked."
Jun 23, 2007 Blade story:
"Ohio Gov. Ted Strickland, speaking about the bridge as a symbol for Toledo, Lucas County, and northwest Ohio, said: "This wonderful city that we look out upon, in this wonderful region, in the great state of Ohio, is central to all that we try to do to make Ohio move forward to create opportunities for all of Ohio’s citizens. And I say to the congresswoman [Marcy Kaptur (D., Toledo)] and to the [Toledo] mayor [Carty Finkbeiner], and to all of the political leaders, state and local, that there is no more ‘The Other Ohio.’ This part of Ohio is central to what is Ohio," Mr. Strickland said, , using the term used to describe parts of the state that don’t wield the same political clout as the Three Cs — Cleveland, Cincinnati, and Columbus."
posted by jr at 08:37 A.M. EST on Tue Jul 24, 2007 #
An article in today's Blade mentions Toledo will also support a site near the airport.
"As a secondary offering, the city is also supporting a site assembled by the Toledo-Lucas County Port Authority near Swanton adjacent to the turnpike exit at Toledo Express Airport."
http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070724/NEWS16/707240341
posted by BGGrad at 11:07 A.M. EST on Tue Jul 24, 2007 #
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