"Mayor Jack Ford is sending to council legislation to enter into an agreement with the Pizutti Companies, Lathrop and SSOE, for the development of a new arena in Toledo."
"Mayor Ford says the first step is to complete a feasilibity study to determine the cost, size and location, with East Toledo being the preferred location. The study will cost $50,000 and is expected to be completed by the end of May."
"[Councilman Bob] McCloskey says his main concern is how the arena's going to be paid for."
Yeah, that money thing seems like an important detail. Will the feasibility study answer that question? Maybe Toledo can use their "trade secret" strategy to pay for it.
From the Jan 2003 "Marina without an arena" posting above, "A consultand has suggested the new arena could only be funded with a "sin tax" on alcohol and tobacco locally."
I wonder if that will be looked at again? Back in 2003, I thought Mayor Ford didn't like the sin tax idea.
posted by jr at 08:16 P.M. EST on Fri Feb 25, 2005 #
I take great pleasure in theorizing that the following trends have determined why the "Marina Project" is just not going to happen:
o Businesses expect higher levels of corporate welfare every year.
o Toledo's politicians are vicious, inept or immature.
o Toledo's economy is collapsing.
In effect, when Toledo's pols actually are spurred to action when someone rolls something shiny in from of them, they find that Toledo is actually so financially depleted that it can't afford to make the concessions (i.e. corporate welfare) necessary to attract a likely developer. After enough grousing in the council back rooms, they emerge with plans that the corporate welfare queens find so laughable that the papers are only suitable as a certain toilet accessory.
Literally, Toledo doesn't have enough financial ability to even start the project. And those who do have the ability certainly don't want to go around spending their own money. Remember, the wealthy stay wealthy by spending PUBLIC money, not their own.
Still, Ford can always come up with another $50K for a "study". He's very, very good at spending 5- or 6-digits for studies and consultants. He has accumulated vast experience in Toledo just studying things and hiring people. Too bad that nothing really happens otherwise.
The recent news is just more Ford spin action. The wheels are turnin', but the car's not movin'. And that is Ford's style in a nutshell.
posted by GuestZero at 03:29 A.M. EST on Sat Feb 26, 2005 #
Here's a good one......
On the radio last fall, I heard an interview with Bruce Douglas, the 'former' developer of the Marina District project. Appearantly, the effort to get a deal signed w/the city has been going on since 2000.
Douglas said he thought they had the deal done several times, but - for one reason or another - the city either added/removed something from the contract at the last minute or simply changed their mind for no 'appearant' reason.
The reason, however, came to light last spring when the city verbally committed to a 'finally agreed upon' deal. Once again, at the 11th hour, Ford had an unusual demand.... He requested that Douglas or his business partner - or both - fly to PITTSBURGH, so the Block family (owners of The Blade) could examine the finalized deal. This was odd because the Blocks hadn't been present at any of the negotiating sessions, nor was it necessary - as far as Douglas knew - to secure their approval to finalize the deal.... aside from this last minute, bizarre request by J Fo.
Well, Douglas sent his partner to Pittsburqh, where he complied with the stipulation put forth by our "Mayor". The Blocks did examine the contract, as planned. As far as the developers knew, the deal was done, and work would, at long last, begin on the Marina plan.
Then, 'shockingly', the city backed out of their verbal committment a day after the Pittsburgh 'deBlockle'. A few months later, Mr. Douglas found out - while listening to the RADIO in his car, no less - that the city was looking for a new developer, and no longer would work with he and his co.
I guess the act of having an ounce of class, wisdom, character, integrity, leadership, or balls is a facade Ford saves for the many Mayoral Conferences, which he and his 'lovely' wife attend at the cost of Toledo's taxpayers.
IF this were Paris, and the year was 1792, Ford would be given the same thing Bugs Bunny got, in an old 'Merrie Melodies' cartoon episode:
"Take Heem to Le Ghee-Oh-Teen"
..... but, IF is a big word, ya know? Like they say..... "IF my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle"... but, she sure wouldn't be mayor.
posted by TolremApan at 02:08 P.M. EST on Sat Feb 26, 2005 #
Man, I was rolling on the floor when I read about the JFo-Block connection. Jr's suspicions are simply too true for comfort. Toledo's secret government struck again.
Of course, these back-room deals are 100% lousy for the taxpayers one way or another. What's really stopping someone from buying up property along the East Side and then building an arena? Yes, that's right: they'd have to use their own money, which they'd have to re-coup from ticket and concessions sales. Spending your own money and managing the enterprise to recover your investment is a sucker's game when public treasuries around the country are wide open.
Well, this hardly matters, speculation and all, since JFo is busily trying to sell out more Toledo's economic blood for the ravenous and vicious capitalists in O-I. Scrounging up some fraction of an $8 million blackmail package is going to consume a lot of Toledo's energies. If I had any doubt about the trash fee, it's been dispelled now. Toledo is going to be invoking a lot of fees to cope with the O-I extortion deal.
posted by GuestZero at 08:54 P.M. EST on Sat Feb 26, 2005 #
*sigh* Another $50,000 spent to buy a semi-educated guess from someone who doesn't know the area.
Just like all the other "vaporware" projects, I'll believe it when I see it.
-Dan
posted by photodan at 01:33 A.M. EST on Sun Feb 27, 2005 #
I would have to ask why the $50,000.00 was even spent in the first place. The fact of the matter is the city doesn’t have the funds for the marina project no matter what the consultant says. Being that is the economic reality in Toledo, I would guess that Jack Ford is spending this money just for appearances sake, to make people think he is doing something.
The end result of all this is that nothing is going to get accomplished, but because Jack Ford spent 50k here and 100k there, whoever is mayor in 2006, is going to say, “Bummer, the city is broke”.
posted by mike2004 at 07:18 A.M. EST on Mon Feb 28, 2005 #
When you are test firing coutless "misssles" with no clue as to which ones will fly, where they will go, or which ones will blow up on the launch pad, you make sure that you fire them from the control room.
On a missle firing range they put the control room...
In the BLOCK house.
Did you ever wonder whose finger was on the launch button?
Mystery solved.
posted by Hooda_Thunkit at 08:59 A.M. EST on Mon Feb 28, 2005 #
A $50,000 feasilibity study to determine the cost, size, and location of the arena. Personally, I'd like to see the arena shoehorned into the warehouse district. Saturate that area with as much life as possible. And then if there's interest in more development, expand elsewhere.
In the post from last summer titled: New plan for sports arena, we learned that the originators of this new plan held a meeting with Mayor Ford and held a separate, private meeting with the Blade editorial board. First, why meet privately with the Blade editorial board about a development project? What about the boards for other businesses?
Anyway, Mayor Ford wants the new sports arena built on the same spot where the current sports aroma resides.
The Blade editorial board also wants the arena on the east side of the river, but the Blade doesn't want it where the current arena sits.
The Blade editorial board said last summer:
"East Side leaders are understandably enthusiastic about a proposal from an Arizona developer to build a new sports arena on their side of the Maumee River. We are encouraged by that as well. Phoenix-based Arena Management and Construction LLC wants to put a new arena basically on the footprint of the old building, and we are not yet persuaded that is the best place for it."
So where does the Blade editorial board want the new arena?
"It's quite likely that most Toledoans who one day visit a new Sports Arena would prefer to use the new I-280 bridge when it is finished. While the arena belongs in the Marina District, the majority of arena patrons live on the west side of the river. That suggests an arena location closer to the new bridge or at least more centrally located in the Marina District."
The Blade editorial board wants the new arena built out by the new I-280 bridge. I guess out by the original Tony Packo's?
What if this feasibility study said put the arena on the west side of the river? No chance of that happening, in my opinion. I bet Toledo has already dictated to the people doing the study to only look at the east side of the river. No way of knowing that. It's just a hunch.
I also have a hunch that the $50K study will show that the best place for the arena will be out by the new bridge.
posted by jr at 05:44 P.M. EST on Mon Feb 28, 2005 #
From Saturday's Blade:
"Mayor Jack Ford [last Friday] set in motion plans for design and construction of a new Toledo sports and concert arena, likely as part of the Marina District. The mayor announced he was recommending the Pizzuti Cos. of Columbus, already on board as developer of the Marina District, as master developer of a new multiuse arena."
Mayor Ford said:
"We are looking at the East Toledo location as the preferred site. This study will confirm the best possible set of circumstances for success, including location."
'The' location? That sounds like one spot. Why spend that much money to look at one location? From my previous comment, there are at least two locations on the east side.
"Jim Miller, an executive vice president of Pizzuti, said CSL International of Minneapolis will do the feasibility study. "It'll compare the Toledo market with how successful cities like this have developed arenas around the country," he said. "It'll be a very broad-based study." He said study topics would include potential revenue sources, location, and seating size."
"Pizzuti was selected in December to manage the Marina project. So far, the company has not revealed its vision for the 125-acre site on the east bank of the Maumee River between the Martin Luther King, Jr., and I-280 bridges."
"... Pizzuti would then have 45 days to provide conceptual drawings."
I'll feel better with yet another artist's sketch.
posted by jr at 06:01 P.M. EST on Mon Feb 28, 2005 #
The sports aroma could be Toledo's biggest puss-spewing boil. It's been fine for some of the heavy metal concerts I've attended where I've been on the floor pushing people around. But come on, how can our sports arena be anything but an embarrassment for the city? It tells outsiders that Toledo has no sophistication, and we'll settle for whatever sludge is available.
I guess I've been spoiled by the new arenas and ball fields because I won't take my family to an event at that decrepit relic. At least not without us wearing steel-toed boots and a hard hat to give us a fighting chance in case it collapsed. And we make sure we're up-to-date on all of our shots before entering. What a shithole.
Which is why I laughed at the letter to the Blade editor titled: Sports Arena unsafe, unworthy of Toledo.
"Until my family and I attended a recent presentation of "Disney on Ice," it had been many years since I had been inside the Sports Arena. I had forgotten how antiquated and dilapidated this structure was and I wondered how the hundreds of people, particularly small children, would fare in the event of a fire or bomb threat evacuation with tight seating and dim and narrow passageways."
"A more immediate concern was the total lack of adequate restroom facilities. During intermission, my 4-year-old granddaughter needed to use the restroom and I naturally took her to the one closest to our seats. I was appalled to see 30-40 people already in line to use it."
"My family and I left the program early and, needless to say, we will not be attending future events at the Toledo Sports Arena."
Because of the inadequate restroom facilities, women use the men's restrooms at concerts.
posted by jr at 07:04 P.M. EST on Fri Mar 11, 2005 #
Yes, I read that opinion page, but it immediately sparked the question:
How, exactly, is the problem of the current Sports Arena owners not maintaining the site, alleviated by building a new site? Will the new owners feel compelled to spend money to maintain the new site? If they will, then what's the difference between then and the owners of the old site? Also, how much will it cost to build a couple more bathrooms in the current arena? Why hasn't that money been allocated over the years and spent to perform the construction?
This reminds me of the Mud Hens situation. People were saying paraphrasedly "boy the old stadium is looking like sh*t" ... but again, whose fault was that, exactly? Furthermore, if the owners of the stadium were salivating over a new one for years, what does that imply about their plans for a maintenance budget for the stadium?
I think that people are getting fooled AGAIN about the Sports Arena. Noting the current condition is just another smokescreen to promote the new plan, new site, and new arena. What the Blade SHOULD be asking is why the old arena is not being maintained, and how the new arena will avoid the same fate.
posted by GuestZero at 04:05 P.M. EST on Sat Mar 12, 2005 #
I'd say the owner, Gladieux or whoever, doesn't give a damn about providing something decent to the public. If people are willing to plop down money to see events at the current arena, why should the owner spend money improving it? If people just stopped going to the arena for all events, including watching goon hockey, that would get someone's attention. Apparently, enough Toledoans are willing to accept crap and fork over their dollars to go to the arena, and that's just fine for the owner. I haven't been to a concert at the arena in about four years.
Do we know if the current sports arena owner will be involved in a new arena? Back in the mid-90's, the sports arena owner announced plans to remodel the current arena. Obviously, that never happened.
Then Rossford announced their grand plans in '99 or 2000. That woke up the sports arena owner who immediately announced he would build a new arena. Well, the Rossford dream died, and still nothing happened with a new arena in Toledo.
Too bad UT didn't decide to build a new arena. They did announce the other day plans for "Savage Hall rehabilitation and addition – To provide additional event and practice spaces, as well as office and support spaces." This is part of UT's "master plan" for the next decade. So who knows if it really happens and how grand the Savage Hall fix up will really be. But it will probably be completed before Toledo gets a new arena.
I don't think the sports arena/Mudhens stadium comparison is the same thing. It was said that the stadium in Maumee was the worst in the league, and there were scare tactic threats that the Hens would be moved to another city if a new stadium wasn't built in Toledo.
Toledo's first plan to pay for the new Hens stadium was to tax the citizens, but twice voters said no way. Voters said we'll send the Hens elsewhere before we pay for it. Amazingly, Toledo figured out a different way to fund the development.
I suppose people are happy a new Hens stadium was built, but it's good for only one thing: baseball. And that's for only a few months out of the year. People who don't like baseball wouldn't care if the Hens left town. But an arena can be used year-round for a lot of events.
In fact, between the two, a new sports arena would do far more for downtown Toledo than the Hens. I don't see a lot of people coming to Toledo in January to see a snow-covered baseball field.
posted by jr at 04:38 P.M. EST on Sat Mar 12, 2005 #
"Toledo City Council yesterday voted to contract with Pizzuti Cos. of Columbus to plan a sports and concert arena despite criticism of a potential conflict of interest involving Mayor Jack Ford's former arena project manager."
"Steven Best, who recently resigned as real estate commissioner and Marina District project manager, had an undisclosed family connection with SSOE Inc., one of the arena and Marina District contractors."
"Mr. Best resigned March 15 after the city began an ethics inquiry into his referral of city-related real estate deals totaling $1.7 million to a firm that employs him and his wife as agents."
posted by jr at 11:28 A.M. EST on Wed Mar 23, 2005 #
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