What idiot would put the bus route on a school's front door...Alternea, would you please name the school??
posted by MrsPhoenix at 08:11 P.M. EST on Sat Aug 26, 2006 #
I second that. Safety isn't a foremost thought maybe...
posted by katie82640 at 08:39 P.M. EST on Sat Aug 26, 2006 #
I remember going to see the bus routes posted on the door of Stranahan in the early 90's when I was a youngster there. I definately agree that this method could be exploited by sex offenders, however personally mailing bus-stops to thousands of individual homes would a huge task. Besides... all an individual has to do to find a bus stop is drive around a neighborhood around 7:00 AM.
Is the cost-benefit really there? The best thing that parents can do to protect their kids - from all kinds of trouble - at the bus stop is to keep an eye on what goes on out there.
posted by cameramano at 08:43 P.M. EST on Sat Aug 26, 2006 #
My kids are in their 20's now, but they always mailed the bus routes, schedules to us in the mail - Washington Local schools.
posted by starling02 at 09:38 P.M. EST on Sat Aug 26, 2006 #
I can see the concern, I don't know how warranted it is. I can only speak for myself-living in Sylvania.
Usually in the morning it's 3-4 kids waiting for the bus, parents looking out windows, heavy morning traffic and police patrolling the nieghborhood. Same situation after school. Probably the last place a pedophile wants to be seen. And it's been mentioned-by the 2nd day of school anyone that really wants too know will find the bus stops.
Maybe I'm not being protective enough, but I don't live in fear of the bad man, and let my daughter go outside with her friends. The bad man's out there, but maybe the fear is overblown. If your kids young enough that you're concerned about pedophiles, you should probably be watching the kids at the bus stop.
posted by Bruno at 10:39 P.M. EST on Sat Aug 26, 2006 #
Aaaand another piece of an open society bites the dust. There's no limit to security features that can be enacted once you start constantly living in fear.
Next, parents will dress up their kids in hunters' gillie suits just in case a pedophile spots one of the poor dears on the street somewhere. In such a suit, you can train one of your constantly-threatened brood to run from bush to bush to take advantage of the cover. (It'll also be good pre-training for the only profession the Empire will offer them in the future: soldier. But I digress.)
There is no army of pedophiles, folks, hidden or otherwise. What's true instead is the extremity of your stomach-clenching media-fed fear.
posted by GuestZero at 02:19 A.M. EST on Sun Aug 27, 2006 #
Hmmm, let me guess, GZ has no children?
posted by JeepMaker at 09:28 A.M. EST on Sun Aug 27, 2006 #
I'm guessing I'm not getting the point, Springfield has listed bus routes and classroom assignments on their doors for years.
I'd also point out the logic of if a pedophile really wanted to target school children all they would have to do is follow the bus while on it's route. So whether the route is posted or not these routes take the same roads, make the same stops every day.
And I do have children - five of them.
:-)
posted by psyche777 at 11:03 A.M. EST on Sun Aug 27, 2006 #
We've lived in Sylvania for 11 years and the school bus routes have always been posted, along with class rosters, outside the elementary school (Whiteford) of our district.
I must say it never occured to me that this was a safety issue. For one thing, there's almost always a GROUP of 3-4 kids waiting together in a neighborhood setting. On the few occasions that only one child is waiting, there was almost always an adult present (presumably the kid's parent or sitter).
I agree with the general slant of GuestZero's posting.
posted by McCaskey at 11:05 A.M. EST on Sun Aug 27, 2006 #
While I don't necessarily share the original posters concern, I understand it. It's a dangerous world out there.
posted by JeepMaker at 11:25 A.M. EST on Sun Aug 27, 2006 #
Fact: A pedophile will ALWAYS know where the children are.
Teach your children how to recognize danger, but don't make them fearful to be alive.
Teach your children who to contact in an emergency, don't make them fearful of life.
I am not diminishing the importance of parental involvemen/concern. I am trying to be honest about the world as we know it now.
To think that a pedophile will not know the school bus route just because it's not posted on the school door is naive, at best. The evil mind will know where your children are, even when you don't. It's a sad fact of the issue.
Teach them, love them, be vigilant, and be concerned. But please don't foster a level of fear that will prevent them from becoming healthy, well balanced teenagers and adults.
And no, I don't have children. But before you tell me it's easy to speak from my side of the fence - I worked law enforcement and emergency services for most of my life. I know what is out there.
posted by DoknowDocare at 12:14 P.M. EST on Sun Aug 27, 2006 #
Most pedophiles don't need a bus route to find their victims.....they just walk down the hall to the kids' room. For those that choose to abuse children other than their own there are easier ways to go about getting them than using a posted bus route....maybe just look out the windown and watch kids being dropped off.
posted by HeyHey at 12:30 P.M. EST on Sun Aug 27, 2006 #
DoknowDocare>>>Teach them, love them, be vigilant, and be concerned. But please don't foster a level of fear that will prevent them from becoming healthy, well balanced teenagers and adults.
I've raised 3 to healthy, well-adjusted adulthood and I totally agree. well said.
posted by nana at 03:43 P.M. EST on Sun Aug 27, 2006 #
JeepMaker said: "Hmmm, let me guess, GZ has no children?"
I have nieces and nephews, and will defend them to the death if necessary. But that's not important. I don't need to have any family (or other personal connection to children) to identify that what's important is what is TRUE. And what's TRUE is that there is no army of pedophiles just cruising Toledo, following a route map or not, looking to grab some kids.
Get some perspective and stop living in fear, JM. My nieces and nephews are not under attack, and neither are your kids. Teach them awareness, caution, and self-defense and we'll all be better off for it.
psyche777 said: "I'd also point out the logic of if a pedophile really wanted to target school children all they would have to do is [CENSORED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY]."
OMG! You just helped the pedophiles! Now, not only do we need a law against "following a school bus or other student-transportation for more than 2 blocks", but now we need an anti-information law to cover yapping mouths like yours! Why do you hate America? {guffaw}
posted by GuestZero at 07:03 P.M. EST on Sun Aug 27, 2006 #
I'm sorry GZ - I was a bad girl...
:-)
posted by psyche777 at 09:03 P.M. EST on Sun Aug 27, 2006 #
We are discussing what WE do. It's important to understand pedophiles don't think like us.
Quote from the linked story: "Child molesters seek out places where their victims congregate - schools, teams, scouting groups, churches.
Then they wait."
Studying psychology when the information given out by pedophiles about how they hunt the children, it's a frightening experience. These people are called predators for a reason. Some children are taken from their beds, in locked houses, while the family sleeps. You cannot 'prepare' enough to avoid this kind of event.
It is irresponsible and a risk to make information available on how or where to find children when they are away from their parents and schools' protection.
posted by katie82640 at 08:21 A.M. EST on Mon Aug 28, 2006 #
Wow - I've seen paranoia, and I've seen paranoia, but this takes the cake. I agree with those who have said that pedophiles will find the kids without the schedule.
There is nothing irresponsible about posting the bus routes. Unless, that is, you plan on using unmarked vehicles to transport the kids. You don't need the route information to spot the big yellow beasties.
posted by MoreThanRhetoric at 02:55 P.M. EST on Mon Aug 28, 2006 #
We don't actually call concern over topics like the threat to children posed by pedophiles paranoia here - maybe we shouldn't be concerned - just what they heck.
I just can't bring myself to a cavalier belief that it's a crap shoot and hey, they'll either find my kids or they won't. I'm not good with that.
Children have a right to expect that the people responsible for them will be as educated as possible about the dangers to them while they grow up and take reasonable steps to provide as safe an environment as possible.
If you consider that to be a mental illness - you're sure entitled to your opinion.
posted by katie82640 at 03:13 P.M. EST on Mon Aug 28, 2006 #
should be 'what THE heck'.
I guess I can quit dreaming about a career as a professional typist.
posted by katie82640 at 03:14 P.M. EST on Mon Aug 28, 2006 #
Some children are taken from their beds, in locked houses, while the family sleeps. You cannot 'prepare' enough to avoid this kind of event.
How much more can anyone 'prepare' for an event like this? The children are in their locked house, with their parents present. What more can one possibly do? Post a Dobermann outside the kids' room? Hire private security to guard the house at night?
As several posters have pointed out, a pedophile doesn't need a bus schedule to prey on a victim.
posted by McCaskey at 03:57 P.M. EST on Mon Aug 28, 2006 #
How much more can anyone 'prepare' for an event like this?posted by McCaskey at 04:57 P.M. EDT on Mon Aug 28, 2006
Well it appeared fairly evident that this was the original posters complaint - that posting the children's bus routes - where and when they will be in transit during the day (away from teachers and parents, many of them going home as latch key kids) would provide a ROAD MAP TO FOLLOW THEM HOME and make them far too available to hunting pedophiles.
posted by katie82640 at 05:08 P.M. EST on Mon Aug 28, 2006 #
And as stated, posting that information on a school door does not create any more of a threat than already exists given bus routes are the same every day.
Springfield and Swanton both posted this information on their front doors along with classroom assignments for years and could have very well done so this year but I don't have one attending. There is no bus assignment for my youngest's school since everyone is a walker.
If anything a pedophile approaching a school building and studying a bus map is going to create more of a possibility of being seen and later be able to be identified than one following in a car. Given Elementary Schools are clearly marked and buses are clearly indentfied as buses and bus stops are the same every day trying to claim the mere posting of a map is irresponsible and somehow creates a greater risk than already would exist is one I disagree with.
Given that the majority of children who are abused by pedophiles are already known to them it's pretty safe to guess they know where and when they come off the bus.
While we should teach our children to be careful we also can go to far in creating a society of fear. Children already have a skewed view of what a pedophile "looks" like. Research shows this fact over and over again.
Two experts on sex offenders estimate that 80 percent to 90 percent or more of all child molestations are committed by people who know the victim. And sex offenders who abduct children they don't know make up only about 5 percent of those who have served time in state prison, said Doris Mahlum, a district administrator for the California Department of Corrections Parole Division.
http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2005/05/01/news/top_stories/22_39_364_30_05.txt
posted by psyche777 at 05:39 P.M. EST on Mon Aug 28, 2006 #
How much more can anyone 'prepare' for an event like this? The children are in their locked house, with their parents present. What more can one possibly do? Post a Dobermann outside the kids' room? Hire private security to guard the house at night?
You can check this site regularly. It's been posted out here before, in fact i GOT it from here. But if it's been a couple months, run your zip code thru it again. People move. And if they're actually trying to slip thru the cracks, they move a LOT.
Personally I think Katie had the best idea when she brought up hunting pedophiles.
(ok, so i took it out of context! Im sure as hell not the first one out here to do that!!!)
posted by billy at 07:08 P.M. EST on Mon Aug 28, 2006 #
How much more can anyone 'prepare' for an event like this? The children are in their locked house, with their parents present. What more can one possibly do? Post a Dobermann outside the kids' room? Hire private security to guard the house at night?
Well, yeah, until the Dobermann or private security guard turns out to be a pedophile.
posted by anonymouscoward at 03:53 A.M. EST on Tue Aug 29, 2006 #
LOL, AC.
Billy, yes, that's a worthwhile link to check out now and again. Thanks.
posted by McCaskey at 11:22 A.M. EST on Tue Aug 29, 2006 #
Well, parents have to know, and the schools can post such information INSIDE the school, where parents are always warmly welcomed and deeply respected ... er, aren't they?
Pedos can just follow those big yellow busses. They can also freely drive down the public streets at certain times of day and clearly see children congregating at spots at the side of the road. Schools and parks are also clearly marked and instantly recognizable. Not posting such information at the school is not going to stop the pedos.
The truth is the same here for determined pedos as it is for all determined criminals, be they burglars, robbers, murderers and the like: the determined criminal is going to commit crimes. Period. The determined robber can enter any retail store and brandish a weapon at the cashier. The determined burglar can use a crowbar to get into 100% of the homes in the United States. The determined killer only has to aim. And ... the determined pedo can grab nearly any kid he wants since they are out walking on the sidewalks, playing in parks, standing at bus stops, and sitting at home.
We can't stop the determined pedo. However, we can make his choices difficult, and in the post-911 environment, we can and will give chase, also ending in a physical manner that will deter more pedos (who naturally don't want to be beaten to death on a public street). We are not victims hanging like fruit from a tree, waiting to be plucked. We are hard to remove and sting like fuck when grasped. Or, at least we SHOULD be so. Learn to be aware, accept the responsibility and right of being armed, learn to defend yourself, keep in good shape in case you have to run (as I ran after a post-office robber one fine day over a year ago -- yay me), and -- most importantly -- pass these values onto your kids, other family, neighbors and co-workers. Develop this kind of society and we'll make sure that the man who dares grab a kid from the sidewalk will soon be running for his very life and -- again, most importantly -- will often not survive the snatch-n-grab act.
posted by GuestZero at 03:56 P.M. EST on Wed Aug 30, 2006 #
Syndicate ToledoTalk
