I Like Carty
If he announces in the affirmative tonight, he will win. At this time in the history of Northwest Ohio we need someone that will at the least make a effort to better our area good or bad, and not take the city to the a High Level for a second attempt to kill it. To cement the job he needs to enlist the common people ie; making sure sections of Toledo like the old South End is at least rep'd by someone. Helping these people ban together by finding a developer to buy a whole city block (ie: the triangle of land behind the old fire station on Broadway) so something new can be built there, not putting 20k into a 5k building
that will look like a 10k building in 10 years.
posted by rentapen at 10:18 A.M. EST on Thu Jun 30, 2005 #
In Ford's defense, Carty was mayor in a period of greater economic well-being.
While some may criticize Ford for not accomplishing much, Carty had more money to play with.
After years of growth, the City's revenue shrank in 2000-2001; it leveled off in 2002-2003, and showed a miniscule growth 2003-2004:
http://www.ci.toledo.oh.us/images/Finance/051305%20ais2005.pdf (Go to page 40 for general revenue figures).
I am not a Ford apologist, so do not smack me down as such. I am just reminding the Cartyites that he was the beneficiary of revenues that increased over time due to a stronger economy. As long as there is revenue growth, almost anyone can look good, whether in government or in business.
Almost.
posted by historymike at 10:52 A.M. EST on Thu Jun 30, 2005 #
Ah yes the numbers, history vs. bottom line. The bad money years with Reagan's great personality and hard money choices vs. Clintons great economy (from Reagan?) and his lifestyle. Carty sitting on his hands during the good years vs. Mr Ford's cheerleading and campaign to keep jobs and leaving no stone unturned looking for more jobs.
Pop quiz, place the names from the last paragraph in the correct position.
regards and
posted by rentapen at 02:21 P.M. EST on Thu Jun 30, 2005 #
I do not disagree, in general, with your hidden points.
Funny test, by the way. Of course, arguments could be made about for almost any placement of names. I am tempted to link Ford with the "lifestyle" blurb.
I agree that Carty may have been Toledo's best cheerleader, with the exception of Samuel "Golden Rule" Jones.
I am not convinced he managed the city's finances well.
I admit to a fondness for certain Carty-isms, like when he would take property owners to task for allowing their property to look like hell. I smile at the memory of the hyperactive Carty going into a downtown hotel and berating them for leaving their Summit Street lobby litter-strewn.
Carty, though, when he freaked out about the possibility of Jeep leaving, negotiated an awful deal with DamilerChrysler and allowed DCX to screw the city, TPS, and WLS out of a lot of tax revenue. I have talked with a lot of influential people who said that Carty's team signed a lousy deal for the city.
posted by historymike at 02:53 P.M. EST on Thu Jun 30, 2005 #
historymike - are you sure about the schools? I thought they were made whole...
posted by intrepid at 03:33 P.M. EST on Thu Jun 30, 2005 #
My undestanding is that they lose out on tax revenue until 2008, but that they got about $1 million each at the signing.
I once read the agreement between Toledo and DCX.
Someone correct me if I am mistaken; I can't seem to find the document.
posted by historymike at 05:02 P.M. EST on Thu Jun 30, 2005 #
historymike wrote:
”In Ford's defense, Carty was mayor in a period of greater economic well-being.”
This is certainly true enough.
-and-
”While some may criticize Ford for not accomplishing much, Carty had more money to play with.”
True enough, but Carty, spending like a drunken sailor on shore leave, saddled the incoming Ford administration with a $ 16 Million budget hole, which has yet to be overcome… In many respects, I would relish that $ 16 Million hole coming back to roost squarely on Carty’s”I am not a Ford apologist, so do not smack me down as such. I am just reminding the Cartyites that he was the beneficiary of revenues that increased over time due to a stronger economy. As long as there is revenue growth, almost anyone can look good, whether in government or in business.
Almost.”
Mike, you don’t come off as a Ford apologist, but as someone who has, accurately represented the historical facts (at least, we seem to agree on the history).
history mike’s next follow-up:
”I agree that Carty may have been Toledo's best cheerleader, with the exception of Samuel "Golden Rule" Jones.
I too agree about Carty’s cheerleading skills, along with his obvious love of all things Toledo.
BTW, nice reference to Samuel “Golden Rule” Jones, who was one of Toledo’s greatest mayors (IMNHO). Despite Sam’s declared political leanings, he was one of the best!
As far as this statement:
”I am not convinced he managed the city's finances well.”
Your position deserves a choir of Amens, and Hallelujahs approaching biblical proportions!
And, regarding the balance of your response, let me respond with a Carty evaluation of own:
What I remember about Carty’s first 8-yesr reign:
Carty received a bad rap by being credited with the idea of moving deaf people to the houses near the airport (which was actually sent to him by one of his constituents, a doctor, as I recall. Carty was only guilty of sharing the idea with the media, who promptly hung it around Carty’s neck like an albatross.
Carty had (and probably still has) a very short fuse.
Carty was the consummate micro-manager. His directors and department heads were impotent without Carty’s prior blessing.
Carty had a “gift” in not being hampered by reality. When Carty wanted something done, there was no reason good enough for you not to get it done.
Ah yes, the good ‘ole dayze…
Disclaimer:
I voted for Carty when was running for council.
I did NOT vote for Carty for Mayor, nor will I.
I did NOT vote for Jack Ford for Mayor, nor will I.
I have tried to make positive (but painful/truthful) factual statements about both of these men.
I am still undecided as to whom I will be voting for in the August primary (but it won’t be Opal Covey either).
Keith Wilkowski: I am not yet convinced and will continue to watch/listen…
Rob Ludeman: If the election were today, Rob would definitely get a vote from me, despite his low profile campaign “style.” (I always lean towards candidates that have real world experience vs. a professional/perennial political candidates.)
And (IMO), the true total cost to keep Jeep has yet to be made known to the citizens of Toledo…
posted by Hooda_Thunkit at 08:39 P.M. EST on Thu Jun 30, 2005 #
I also would love to see the total figures. Hopefully I will also be here in 2099 to see that final citizen income/tax tally of the new plantS and support Plants.
Regards and
posted by rentapen at 11:35 A.M. EST on Mon Jul 04, 2005 #
Its funny how the same people that defend Jack Ford about inheriting a lousy economy were/are quick to critique President Bush for "wrecking the economy" when he also inherited an economy going into recession.
The economy excuse can probably be made for JFo, but the fact that Jack Ford is a very low key person is going to hurt him, and the fact that Carty is very outspoken and excitable is going to help him.
It’s also funny how so many Democrats are excited about Carty when he sounds like such a Republican and holds a lot of Republican views. Come on, a Democrat supporting tax break (especially for businesses! they're inherently evil according to many dems;)). Also monitoring TPS Levy requests, I thought Dems wanted to give schools endless streams of money.
Another irony is when JFo went to the Democratic convention saying Bush has cost Toledo jobs, but is now is claiming positive creation on his taxpayer supported campaign website (toledoworks.org)
I'm just playing Devil's advocate but I think Carty is exactly what this city needs. If he can unite both Democrats and Republicans (which it seems he is), more power too him.
I hear a familiar chant that probably annoys many people:
FOUR MORE YEARS!!!
posted by lloyd at 11:08 P.M. EST on Sun Jul 17, 2005 #
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