http://www.bizzyblog.com/?p=800
Issues 2-5 appear to be crushed.
1 winning.
No news yet on mayor elections.
posted by paddington at 08:58 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
Suck it RON!
posted by paddington at 08:58 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
I'm listening to WJR to see what's up with Detroit's mayoral race. An exit poll conducted with 800 voters showed Hendrix with 56% and Kilpatrick 44%.
posted by jr at 09:01 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
Toledo's estimated voter turnout is 35-40%, which, I guess, is lower than expected.
posted by jr at 09:04 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
In Detroit, Kilpatrick's whole campaign has been "whitey just don't want our man livin' large wit 'Sclade", that's automatically good for 20% of the Detroit vote. That and he's tall and bulky like an American football player, which is automatically good for another 20% of the electorate.
posted by paddington at 09:05 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
Could be a stormy night with politics and the weather. It doesn't happen often this time of the year, but a severe thunderstorm watch is in effect until 4:00 a.m. for Defiance, Fulton, Henry, and Williams counties. This Thursday is the three-year anniversary of the Van Wert F4 tornado.
posted by jr at 09:28 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
As of 9:31 p.m. in the Perrysburg mayoral race, WTOL is showing:
Nelson Evans 248 61%
Thomas Macklin 155 38%
with only 7% of the precincts reporting.
posted by jr at 09:37 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
The Toledo Free Press is showing counts for Issues 1-5. As of 9:45 for Issue 1:
For: 263,799
Against: 221,813
posted by jr at 09:49 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
This was mentioned in another topic: Ohio's election results page.
posted by jr at 09:57 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
13's been updating faster online than 11
http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/story?section=elections&id=3310790
posted by psyche777 at 10:23 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
Perrysburg mayoral counts as of 10:20 with 12 of 15 precincts reporting:
Nelson Evans 2,584 57%
Thomas Macklin 1,921 42%
posted by jr at 10:26 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
The Blade finally came clean on issues 2-5 now that its not looking good for their passing:
Reform Ohio Now, a coalition of unions and other Democrat-leaning groups, wanted to wrest control of elections from state officeholders, now a virtual Republican monopoly. Republicans resisted, forming an opposition group known as Ohio First.
posted by lloyd at 10:27 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
As of 10:26 with 23 of 275 precincts reporting, the new TPS levy is leading with:
For 2,503 60%
Against 1,633 39%
Still plenty of time for this miscarriage of justice to go down to defeat.
Not a stretch, but I bet Sanders is waiting until after the election to announce that he has taken the charter school job in Detroit.
posted by jr at 10:35 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
It sure warms the cockles of my heart to see the RON amendments tanking so badly. Most polls I saw showed a very tight race.
posted by MemyselfandI at 10:43 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
Latest counts from Ohio's election results website:
State Issue 2
No 63.75%
Yes 36.25%
State Issue 3
No 67.66%
Yes 32.34%
State Issue 4
No 70.53%
Yes 29.47%
State Issue 5
No 70.74%
Yes 29.26%
posted by jr at 10:48 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
Oh yeah, Issue 1:
State Issue 1
Yes 53.86%
No 46.14%
The lead, however, is shrinking.
posted by jr at 10:49 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
WTOL is reporting 8% precints in...Carty leading Jack Ford by 2,000 votes!
CARTY! CARTY! CARTY!
posted by MARIELORA at 10:56 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
Why so slow.....thought technology was supposed to speed things up???
posted by lloyd at 11:00 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
lloyd, it's moving fast now, WTOL had 34% precincts in, Carty is KILLING Jack!
CART! CARTY! CARTY!
posted by MARIELORA at 11:02 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
WTOL updated at 10:55.
49 of 324 precincts reporting:
Carty Finkbeiner 6,705 71%
Jack Ford 2,654 28%
Way early, still. Only 15% reporting by 11:00 p.m. Isn't the counting going slower than normal? I wonder if the BOE is doing extra quality control checking? The polls closed at 7:30. At this rate, we won't have final numbers until tomorrow afternoon.
posted by jr at 11:03 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
sorry correction to my comment WTOL reported 34 precincts in, NOT 34%...CARTY is KILLING Jack!
CARTY! CARTY! CARTY!
posted by MARIELORA at 11:06 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
"WTOL had 34% precincts in, "
That has to be from the TV because their website is only showing 15% reporting.
Amazing.
Today we have touchscreen voting machines and the Internet, and yet "old" technology like pencils, paper, optical scanners, and television provides faster data.
posted by jr at 11:09 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
jr, I made comment to my error...it was 34 precincts in...thought it was 34%, that's why I stated it was moving FAST...and...IT'S NOT!!!
I'm STUPID! SORRY...
34 precincts in...
CARTY! CARTY! CARTY!
posted by MARIELORA at 11:11 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
wtol's website isn't showing updates???
posted by lloyd at 11:12 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
lloyd, yes, it's showing 49 precincts in, Carty winning by 71%!
posted by MARIELORA at 11:15 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
wtvg is showing 16% in for mayor, has been for a few minutes, they just updated Council to 16%
posted by psyche777 at 11:15 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
http://news.wtol.com/election/race808.html
That's the link to Toledo's mayoral race, and it just updated at 11:14, but the numbers have not changed. Still 49 of 324 precincts reporting (15%).
posted by jr at 11:16 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
lol - wtvg and wtol have the same total numbers yet wtvg says it's 16% and wtol says it's 15%
:-)
posted by psyche777 at 11:18 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
So WTOL's website was ahead of TV. Whew. I can sort of keep my faith in technology. I still like pencils.
The BOE needs to replaces their Commodore 64 computers with something from this century to speed things up a bit.
posted by jr at 11:19 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
wtol doesnt have many of the other races updated
posted by lloyd at 11:29 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
The ones I'm monitoring:
Perrysburg mayor - 11:23
http://news.wtol.com/election/race1412.html
TPS levy - 11:14
http://news.wtol.com/election/race873.html
Toledo council district 6 - 11:14
http://news.wtol.com/election/race809.html
Toledo council at large - 11:14
http://news.wtol.com/election/race810.html
Toledo mayor - 11:14
http://news.wtol.com/election/race808.html
TPS school board - 11:14
http://news.wtol.com/election/race844.html
The webpages are updating but the numbers aren't changing because the BOE is going slow. The BOE must be doing extensive verification. Or the truck hauling the computer disks crashed into the Maumee, and they're dredging the river.
posted by jr at 11:36 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
Anyone know how to check on Sylvania and Springfield?
posted by alexandra at 11:40 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
Listening to WSPD at this moment and all I have to say is: Who in the hell voted for McCloskey? It sure wasn't us East Siders.
posted by SherryET at 11:42 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
Funny you mention that JR because I got a letter from the IRS the other day saying a truck filled with 3rd quarter estimates got in an accident in San Francisco and overturned on the Golden Gate Bridege and all of the contents in the truck went into the Bay.....odd huh
posted by lloyd at 11:43 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
Click here and scroll down to Sylvania and Springfield:
http://news.wtol.com/election/Luca.html
posted by jr at 11:44 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
Carty's talking about doing away with the whole A and B team...he's challenging all Northwestern Ohio and Southeastern Michigan to come to gather to create a vision that will lift up the great lakes region.
I guess this is the I might have won but not sure yet but since it's already midnight I better say something now speech.
:-)
posted by psyche777 at 11:50 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
What really yanks my chain is hecklers yelling out remarks while someone is talking. I don't care if it is a nice comment....I think its rude.
I think the people are generally attention seeking, attention starved people...probably drunk
lol
posted by lloyd at 11:54 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
Well they are at Gumbos...
:-)
posted by psyche777 at 11:55 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
jr, thanks for the links. None of the springfield precincts are reporting yet. That means one more vote is on it's way against 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5!!! :-)
posted by alexandra at 11:56 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
Here is the Lucas County Board of Elections website. What irks me is the last informational posting by the BOE on their own website was the Sep primary election results dated Sep 13.
I don't have a problem with the BOE taking extra time counting the votes because of the new system, but where is that information posted? How did someone know that the BOE wasn't going to post updated results on-line? Maybe I'm weird, but I would assume the BOE would say on their website that they wouldn't be posting election results online and give a reason why.
And what's wrong with posting an update every hour or so on their site, blog style, to let the public know how the counting is going and to let us know what's causing the delay?
Quality control, hey, no problem. Get the count right. But tell us that is what's going on. Are they still gathering computer disks from the polling locations? Is there a serious problem?
I don't understand why someone at the BOE doesn't blog updates to keep the interested public informed. Rediculous. But then again, that's the government.
posted by jr at 11:57 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
"Carty's talking about doing away with the whole A and B team...he's challenging all Northwestern Ohio and Southeastern Michigan to come to gather to create a vision that will lift up the great lakes region."
You're right, lloyd. They're drunk.
posted by jr at 12:01 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
jr, i am with you 100%. I am surprised the results are not on the website. It makes it seem like we are a small town - and we are not!
Best source for info tonight, aside from Toledo Talk, i would say WTOL. I like how they have everything organized.
posted by alexandra at 12:04 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
BYE - BYE JACK!!!!!!!
posted by Foolkiller at 12:04 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Jr, it is lame that the BOE can't provide data. However, bfrantz was saying this morning that they (the BOE) wouldn't be posting online. So he knew.
posted by babbleman at 12:07 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
This is strange, think one of them made a typo
WTOL:
Karen Shanahan 5,155
WTVG:
Karen Shanahan 4,155
Rest of the numbers are the same though they have a difference of opinion in the percentage reported
posted by psyche777 at 12:07 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Ohhhhhhhh Dear GODD....So-Lousy is running neck-and-neck with someone....IF this ugly arrogant scumbag elitist P^%&# were to lose TOO-let's just say, it would make my YEAR! Too much to hope for, though,
posted by Foolkiller at 12:07 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Oh...and-BYE - BYE CYNTHIA (you dingbat)!!! You & your hats won't be missed either.
posted by Foolkiller at 12:08 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Don't get too excited Foolkiller, it's not over yet
:-)
Now watch because you wrote that? Ford will come from behind and win.
posted by psyche777 at 12:11 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Okay...WTVG evidently figured out that 30% was really 23%
:-)
This is almost fun...(note I said almost)
Like watching paint dry....
posted by psyche777 at 12:13 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
The darn returns have been the same for the last half hour-45 minutes!!
posted by lloyd at 12:13 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Toledo Mayor - 40% of Precincts Reporting
(D) Carty Finkbeiner 12,730 71%
(D) Jack Ford 5,175 29%
WTVG just updated...do they have the percentage right this time?
posted by psyche777 at 12:20 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Look at state 2-4. OMG, this is great. Two Novembers in a row that the Blade is on the wrong side of popular opinion.
After being assaulted by their leftist brainwashing program on a daily basis it is so uplifting to see that, in reality, they aren't really speaking for anyone but themselves and a small minority.
posted by babbleman at 12:22 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Sigh...now WTVG changed it back to 23% - lol
posted by psyche777 at 12:24 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
"bfrantz was saying this morning that they (the BOE) wouldn't be posting online."
Right. That's how I found out. I think Bob mentioned that on Monday or maybe even last Friday as well. How did he know? Is it posted somewhere on the Lucas County website, and I missed it? Where else would it be posted? It doesn't make any sense.
How technology ass-backwards does the BOE have to be to not maintain a blog space over the past month and especially today and tonight about the general election?
Let me get this straight. Toledo/Lucas County officials supposedly want to bring technology to the area. The Technology Corridor, right? And yet, the BOE cannot properly use web technology to inform the very public that pays their wages.
posted by jr at 12:27 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
I have been covering the Ford campaign tonight.
Talk about technological weaknesses - you mean to tell me I can get a wireless signal in the middle of a riot at Mulberry and Central, but there is no wireless at Local 12?
Give me a break.
BOE can't even tell the candidates what precincts and wards the votes are coming from - what a joke. There is a hell of a story in where the money went on this new technology that no one seems to be able to get operating.
The local pols at the union hall on Ashland, as a group, were highly pissed off. This, at least, bodes well for somebody's ass getting kicked over this.
posted by historymike at 12:39 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
wtol said they are getting updates once an hour...next one at 1am
posted by lloyd at 12:40 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
babbleman, i totally agree w/you re: the blade. i wish there was a way we could abort the blade and start a new paper. All of us bloggers could write editorials. Hopefully there would be a spellcheck in place for me :)
posted by alexandra at 12:40 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
psyche, your paint is drying? It looks sopping wet over here :)
posted by alexandra at 12:41 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
The AP declares Issue 1 passed.
Reform Ohio Now didn't get defeated by a slight margin. RON got slaughtered. None of them were remotely close. What a massive waste of time and money by RON.
And what do these crushing defeats of RON mean? It means the majority of Ohio voters said, "F*ck you!" to the rest of the country who tried to come into Ohio and tell us what to do.
Well, back to the 'ol drawing board for the Bl*de and their kind. The front page text and photographic editorials supporting RON failed miserably.
posted by jr at 12:42 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Not to be mean, but it is almost 1 a.m. so who cares...
What do we expect when the average age of a poll worker is 85???
posted by lloyd at 12:43 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
hehehe Alexandra, I'm trying to keep myself amused. If I doze off somebody wake me up when it's over....
:-)
posted by psyche777 at 12:46 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
If they were really interested in "reforming" Ohio...would they have left all of those loopholes.
That's why they failed...Ohioans aren't as dumb as Michael Moore makes us out to be :)
posted by lloyd at 12:46 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Sorry, alexandra. I did some checking into adding a spell checker to Toledo Talk, and it's too expensive.
-----
Nov 8 WTOL story:
"Voters in 44 [Ohio] counties will use touch-screen machines for the first time in Tuesday's election."
Have the other 43 counties experienced the same long-ass delays as Lucas?
posted by jr at 12:47 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
By the way...did anyone notice C.D. Cappuccilli won mayor of Monroe with only 14 votes!!!!
Shows that "every vote counts"
posted by lloyd at 12:49 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Now, folks: let's get equally pissed the next time conservative groups dump money from outside Ohio to influence an election, OK? Liberals do not have a lock on financial border crossing.
I agree that RON, on the whole, was poorly-written law. The monetary "reforms" were thinly-veiled gifts to the unions, and the other reform measures were too flawed to pass the muster.
I just get frustrated when the debate is not over the substance of the amendments, but centers on "outside" money.
Face it - every big election has outside money. Don't like it? Start a new initiative.
posted by historymike at 12:51 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Ford just conceded
posted by psyche777 at 12:52 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
"... there is no wireless at Local 12?"
But remember, our officials want to bring technology to the area.
Heck, some of our frigging local McDonald's and Burger Kings have WiFi access.
posted by jr at 12:53 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Who side do you think the Blade was on: Former two-term mayor Carty Finkbeiner, known for his temper and embarrassing gaffes, sought yesterday to oust the man who replaced him — Jack Ford, the city’s first black mayor.
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051108/ELECTION2005/51106008
Sounds like Carty has 4 tough years of news print ahead of him.
posted by lloyd at 12:58 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Conceded, with only 27% of the precincts reporting. Maybe Ford just wants to go to sleep.
Unbelievable. WTOL updated its mayoral count page at 12:54 and it says 28% of the precincts reporting.
At 11:00 p.m., it was 15% reporting.
At 1:00 a.m., it's 28%. After five-plus hours, not even a third of the precincts have reported in. At this rate, it will take about 12 more hours to get 100% reporting.
posted by jr at 01:00 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Goodnight everyone...I can take this anymore
posted by lloyd at 01:01 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
night lloyd...
:-)
posted by psyche777 at 01:07 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
OK - my unofficial surf-poll of the local media websites and the announcement of Ford's concession shows the following (in order of first posting on the Web):
1. Toledo Talk
2. Historymike
3. Toledo Blade
Admittedly, we have no editorial staff and can post information in near-real time, but this shows the power of bloggers.
Good job, all - you outperformed the "real" media in getting information out!
posted by historymike at 01:08 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Faster typists...
:-)
posted by psyche777 at 01:11 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
"I just get frustrated when the debate is not over the substance of the amendments, but centers on "outside" money."
With me, it was clearly the substance of the amendments. But along with most of the money, I believe a good bit of the substance also came from outside of the state.
Why were Democrat U.S. Senators from PA, MI, and IL making computerized phone calls to Ohio voters, telling them to support RON?
posted by jr at 01:11 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
For the same reasons that celebrities and famous politicians always do this.
P. Diddy and Schwarzenegger did it in the last presidential election. Why should I, in Toledo, have to hear the Terminator telling me to vote for Bush, or the Diddy-head telling me the world will end if Kerry is not elected?
The out-of-state politicians saw this as an opportunity to turn Ohio from blue to red, or red to blue, or maybe make it purple.
It's all about 2008.
posted by historymike at 01:15 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Have the other 43 counties experienced the same long-ass delays as Lucas?
It's all Diebolds fault..
posted by NoCmpromiz at 01:17 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Will the Repugs now run that favorite Buckeye, Bob Taft for President in 2008. With Tom Noe as his running mate? HAAAAAA! HAAAAAA! HAAAAAA! Well it seems he would carry Ohio, not necessarily the Nation.
posted by jamsmitty at 01:18 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Tom Noe the poster child of Republican ethics! As G.W. Bush said during the 2004 debate 'Wanna by some wood? hee hee' Tom Noe can say 'Wanna buy some coins? hee hee?' A sure winner in the Buckeye state Bob Taft and Tom Noe.
posted by jamsmitty at 01:21 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
I was surprised to se Chris Myers poll so low, especially since he was the most visible of the "3 for Change."
Torres and Fisher seem to have a lock on 1-2, but Chris is running 6th right now.
Nothing against any of the other candidates, but why only vote "2 for Change," and why leave out the sort of driving force behind the concept? I am very puzzled on this one.
Surprised also that Steven Thomas is polling so low - despite the bad press that TPS has been getting, he is a decent guy. Must be a case of getting dragged down in a political undertow.
(BTW, I think Steve Steel will make a solid school board candidate)
posted by historymike at 01:39 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
If you take a look at all the election results thus far, you might notice that most of the candidates that were endorsed by the "official" Lucas County Democratic Party for Toledo Mayor, City Council, and School Board are faring better than either the Republican slate or the slate of the "alternative" Democratic organization.
It will be interesting to see whether or not that patterns continues through the remainder of the vote count. It's difficult to project without knowing which (not how many) precincts have been counted thus far.
posted by RolandHansen at 01:47 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Yes, WTVG's website has been full of typos tonight. Here is the latest:
Frank Szollosi 1,005 votes 1% (with 40% of the precincts reporting).
Frank has been 5th or 6th all night. They must have forgotten a zero, which would put him over 10,000 votes and over 10%, good enough for a solid 6th place, and within striking distance of Betty Schultz.
posted by historymike at 01:49 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
One aberration to Roland's theory, though, is Mark Sobczak. The guy went from about 7th place (the last time I checked in the polls) to a 3-way tie for first with McCloskey and Copeland.
An incredible finish for him, if these results hold strong.
(Note: I am not endorsing Sobczak; I am just commenting on his strong political finish).
posted by historymike at 01:52 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Bob McCloskey and Mark Sobczak were both endorsed by the "official" Lucas County Democratic Party, while Phil Copeland was endorsed by the "alternative" Democratic organization.
posted by RolandHansen at 02:00 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
From http://www.yourvotecountsohio.org
Columbus used an electronic voting machine. Cincy and Cleveland used punch cards. Dayton and Canton used the same equipment as Toledo. If I'm viewing the map correctly, Lucas County is the most populous county using the the touch screens. Is that correct?
I think the only fair comparisons for Lucas County will be with Montgomery and Stark counties.
Checking results from the Montgomery County BOE, you get a stinking PDF file. I tell ya ...
Anyway, their PDF results file is updated as of 12:22 a.m. An election for the Dayton CSD Board of Education has 159 of 173 precincts reporting, which is 91.9%.
The Stark County BOE website does not have any results for this election. Their last results are from back in May.
The Canton Repository newspaper website fortunately has results.
Stark County, Ohio
General Election
November 8, 2005
Summary For Jurisdiction Wide, , All Races
Unofficial Results 11/08/05
23:45:30
Registered Voters 265997 - Cards Cast 89554 33.67% Num. Report Precinct 364 - Num. Reporting 359 98.63%
posted by jr at 02:10 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
As far as the TPS school board election, I think it's still way to early to assume winners and losers, provided WTOL is reporting accurate info. Their TPS school board webpage was updated as of 1:52 a.m. but with the same info from a long time ago:
Precincts Reporting: 76 of 275
Percent of Total = 28%
posted by jr at 02:16 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Making some progress. As of 2:21, 52% of precincts reporting for the Toledo Council at large and mayoral elections.
Carty 62%
Ford 37%
Looks like it's tightening up a bit for council.
Copeland 11%
McCloskey 11%
Sobczak 10%
Betty Shultz 9%
Sarantou 9%
Szollosi 8%
Vasquez 8%
Hancock 7%
Shanahan 7%
Dave Schulz 6%
Terry Shankland 5%
Ernie Berry 3%
posted by jr at 02:29 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Wow, 2,3,4,&5 weren't just defeated-they were CRUSHED! I love it. Babbleman & Alexandra were right-TWO Novembers in a row J.R. Block got his ass handed to him. I would say people in Toledo ARE finally starting to wake up. Well, if it weren't for McCloskey...and So-Lousy....and (Betty) Schultz, and Copeland...and ....Oh, well.
posted by Foolkiller at 02:35 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Bob Taft and Tom Noe the Buckeye Dream Team! Hee Hee!
posted by jamsmitty at 02:51 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Bob Taft for President! 2,3,4,&5 defeated! Taft Rules! "Wanna buy some coins?" Ha Ha! Tom Noe has hit a big one this time, I see the Republican Party coming to his aid, providing legal and financial support, for him and his wife, after all he is a Bush 'Pioneer'. And he is, like Karl Rove, a whiz kid in the Republican Party!
posted by jamsmitty at 02:57 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
I chose to NOT vote for mayor and only vote for the issues et.al because neither mayoral candidate has proven to me trustworthy to SERVE this city in that capacity (keyword: SERVE). Carty's back, huh? 4 more years of more bullshit
posted by MrsPhoenix at 05:49 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
According to the Detroit Free Press, Mr. Kwame Kilpatrick has won (http://www.freep.com/index.htm).
posted by MrsPhoenix at 05:54 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Hancock finally gets kicked off the Council by the voters...YEAH! She is a disgrace to her father!
I can't believe the TPS "renewal" levy passed...DAMN
posted by MrsPhoenix at 06:09 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Sorry, Roland, I mis-read your post.
When you used "official" and "alternative" Dems in quotes, I thought that you were shooting for irony.
Yes, Sobczak is in tight with Carty.
posted by historymike at 06:42 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Ok, I've just wasted the last 20 minutes poking through the sites of newspapers, television channels and the BOE, but I can't find anywhere a comprehensive list winners, losers and margins.
All I can find are stories, analysis, opinions and videos of Jack Ford.
Can someone hand me a link to somewhere that I can see all of the races and their standings?
posted by babbleman at 07:29 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
i totally fell asleep! :) CRAZY - with all the excitment of the quick number reporting, I can't believe i fell asleep. (jr, this is an attempt at sarcastic writing - how did I do?)
historymike, i hear ya, but I wonder if you saw my entire post on reasons to vote no on issues 2-5. Outside money was just one small piece of the debate. This issues were not about reforming ohio, they were about loopholes and about changing the rules to help ensure a blue state in 08. Its not that I have a huge issue with outside money, I had an issue that they advertised themselves as Ohioans trying to reform Ohio. My point wasnt that outside money is bad (even though, why not worry about your own state?) but that were not ohioans at all.
Anyway, YEEAHHHHH for the defeat of RON!!! Steve Fought, where are you now??? Do you think rules will be bended for him and he will be allowed his city job back? Or maybe Marcy Kaptur will take him back.
Oh, and jr - no worries abot the spell check. I totally understand. :)
posted by alexandra at 07:45 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Shamelessly whoring out my Toledo Free Press column, I'd like to ask this question of Toledo Talk bloggers, especially Carty supporters: Do you actually believe in your guy? Or was he merely the lesser of two terrible choices?
posted by BFrantz at 08:36 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Considering the events of yesterday morning up to this morning, I expect heads to roll at the Board of Elections (again)...
To some extent, the snafus of yesterday morning could have been expected; they will get better over time, but the mess on the 3rd floor...
A big push broom and maybe a wet mop are in order there.
There is also no excuse for the Boards Web site not being updated... None!
In the end, the voters did a pretty good job except for City Council.
IMO
posted by Hooda_Thunkit at 09:26 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Carty Finkbeiner being elected mayor of your city is nothing to be happy about.
Oh well, at least Toledo is not as bad as Detroit (yet). People in Toledo like uncouth slobs like Finkbeiner and Ford. In Detroit, people want a tall black man who acts like a football player and tells whitey to go shove it.
posted by paddington at 09:31 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
BFrantz: LOL! LOL! Oh man, that column is great.
posted by paddington at 09:36 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
"...uncouth slobs like Finkbeiner and Ford..."
What is it, paddington, that makes these two men the way in which you describe them?
I have interviewed both of them, and while I disagree with each person on some issues, I found neither of them to be "uncouth slobs."
I am not even going to respond to the quasi-racist nonsense that you have repeatedly directed toward Kwame Kilpatrick and the voters of Detroit, as well as towrd Jack Ford.
One of the strong points of this board is that intelligent discussion of the issues is valued. I respectfully suggest that you raise your rhetoric to a higher standard, or find a more appropriate web venue to engage in racist blatherings.
posted by historymike at 10:13 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Uh, ever hear of the phrase "half a mind?"
Some folks have much less than that and consequently do not have the ability to do anything more than blather and wallow.
posted by RolandHansen at 10:25 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
WTOL is now reporting 94% on the school board race. I am 10k below the other two. It appears straight ticket voting was the way things went. Since I was not on the official D ticket, I did not get the votes. The school board will not doubt have some interesting dynamics now. There will be 3 groups, Sykes & Barnett, Torres & Fisher, and Steel. There will need to be more consensus, which won't be a bad thing. While I would have preferred to be the third person, if I did not get it, I personally would prefer Thomas to get on, he is a really nice person. I believe he listened to Sykes too much, and that really hurt his campaign. He was nowhere on the campaign trail and the election history is littered with appointments that took the campaign trail for granted. I think Sykes told Thomas you don't need to work for it, and Sykes put his foot in his mouth...again. I went through the interview process for appointment and it was clear the board wanted someone that would tow the line, so Thomas was this person. I wanted to thank all of you that voted for me. I did work hard, stood up on the issues, but did not come up on the winning side. I am disappointed in my showing, but hey this is what elections are about. 2 out of 3 is not bad.
Darlene Fisher 24,429 19%
Christopher Myers 14,987 12%
Steven Steel 21,420 17%
Steven Thomas 20,873 16%
Robert Torres 24,979 20%
Jim Whiteman 17,577 14%
Robert Hayman 106 0%
posted by chrismyers at 10:40 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Mr. frantz,
From talking to a great many people, my take on the citizens who voted for Carty is that they weren't even voting for the lesser evil. More like the lesser of two tragic comics.
The reasoning people used in voted for Carty was mirrored on his campaign signs. That slogan is a masterstroke because it describes Carty perfectly. "Carty gets results" Could that get more ambiguous? Good results, bad results... whatever. When Carty is around, *something* is going to happen.
I believe the people of this city decided they were tired of inaction, of yet another consultant being brought in on projects started years ago, of seeing no firm plan on how to bring this city out of the economic backslide.
Whether incorrect or not, the Ford administration was perceived as a deer in the headlights of the oncoming ruin this city will suffer if things do not change. As shown by the election results, most would rather see Toledo dart the wrong way than see it wait for impact wide-eyed.
-Dan
posted by photodan at 10:45 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
[[sigh]]
...meet the new boss.
Same as the old boss.
Looks like sleepy is out and angry is back.
posted by timault at 10:54 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Great analysis, Chris, and a very classy response to the election results.
I underestimated the partisan factor in the school board race, which reflects my independent mentalité. I tend to forget that partisan voters are very partisan, and that they don't think like me. This would be a problem for me if I ever got the notion to run for public office, as I would discount partisan politics to my detriment.
It's much easier to write about politics than to actually practice the craft. :-}
Love the Who quote, timault. I am still holding out hope that Carty has truly mellowed and has become wiser after his hiatus.
I guess we will find out in January.
And photodan nailed the reason for Carty's stunning victory - the best campaign slogan I have seen in 16 years of living here. "Carty Gets Results" was simple, powerful, and effective, and Carty and his Army stayed on message, vertically integrating this slogan into a mantra.
Unfortunately for Jack, he was never able to counter this deceptively plain message with a strong marketing campaign of his own. I also think that some of Jack's advisors did not take Carty seriously until it was too late.
posted by historymike at 11:14 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
carty fuxxk off you asshole jack is a man your a puxxy
posted by Boota at 12:10 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
Great song reference timault. Now I can't get it out of my head - especially that yaaaa part. I saw the Who at the Silverdome on the same tour as the tragic show in Cincinatti (77, 78?). It was a show or two after Cincinnatti. Blackfoot opened. I was a junior in high school I think.
Way OT I know.
Please resume.
posted by babbleman at 12:12 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Ah. Now THERE is intelligent discourse. Your mother must be very proud.
posted by historymike at 12:13 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
That was directed to Boota.
Babbleman: that was the best scream in rock history. The great thing about that song is that it is political without taking sides. It can be sung by a communist, libertarian, or even George W. Bush and still resonate.
It represents both cynicism at the inanity of politics, while being self-deprecating and realistic that life continues on pretty much the same no matter which side wins an election.
"Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
And I get on my knees and pray...
We don't get fooled again!"
posted by historymike at 12:40 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
good-bye Lazy -- Hello Crazy!
posted by unknowncomment at 12:47 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
The new TPS levy:
For 57%
Against 42%
So how long until Sanders announces he's taking the charter school job in Detroit?
TPS School board election, two out of three ain't bad. And even though Chris didn't make the top three, he kept some of us well informed, and I appreciate that.
Birmingham wins District 6 Council. The Republicans gained another seat on Council? That should be national news.
Szollosi finished sixth. He must have been sweating it out some. He was northwest Ohio's campaign manager or something for Reform Ohio Now. He tried to Noeize Carty. He constantly Kested Carty. A small suggestion. When he runs for some kind of state position in '06, he might want to focus on what HE is doing and not on other people and other issues.
Final mayoral election numbers:
Carty Finkbeiner ... 47,351 ... 61%
Jack Ford ... 29,169 ... 38%
Okay, so 76,520 Toledoans voted for a mayor. Carty and Jack were the only choices. No write-in option. Does anyone know the total number of Toledoans that went to the polls? The reason I ask is, I'd like to know how many Toledoans went to the polls but DID NOT select a mayor? I'm in that group.
posted by jr at 01:10 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
May as well post the final Council at large numbers for possible future reference:
Phil Copeland ... 38,044 ... 11%
Bob McCloskey ... 36,421 ... 10%
Mark Sobczak ... 34,895 ... 10%
George Sarantou ... 32,961 ... 9%
Betty Shultz ... 32,044 ... 9%
Frank Szollosi ... 30,253 ... 9%
----
Bob Vasquez ...28,014 8%
Karen Shanahan ... 26,742 ... 7%
Karyn Hancock ... 24,209 ... 7%
Dave Schulz ... 20,181 ... 6%
Terry Shankland ... 17,804 ... 5%
Ernie Berry ... 12,942 ... 3%
Amanda Scott-Rice ... 282 ... 0%
Compare with the Sep primary results. Same top six, but in a different order:
Bob McCloskey
Phil Copeland
Betty Shultz
Frank Szollosi
George Sarantou
Mark Sobczak
posted by jr at 01:22 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
PDF file of the unofficial election results from the Lucas County BOE.
posted by jr at 01:28 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Lucas County BOE doesn't have that as a breakdown, all they have listed in their unoffical count is the number of total votes cast for the whole county - which is 136,860.
It looks like given the number of total votes for judges and for city council more people voted in the mayoral race.
posted by psyche777 at 01:30 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Voter turnout for Ohio was 39.7 percent.
"Voter turnout in Ohio was nearly 4 percentage points higher than in previous odd-year elections. There were 3 million votes cast in Tuesday's election, or 39.7 percent of Ohio's 7 million registered voters. The highest turnout by percentage was in Noble County, 60.2 percent. The lowest turnout by percentage was 32.4 percent, in Athens County."
posted by jr at 01:34 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Has the Lucas County BOE gave an official response to the slow count? It's definitely not on the Lucas County website. I haven't had a chance to troll the media, but I heard from someone else that the delay was caused by stuck memory cards. Is that right?
If a person helps with the election, does that mean the individual can also be a part of the counting process, or is the count done by full-time staff? I think I'll volunteer to help next year, and if possible, be around for the count, so if something's amiss, I can inform others. I don't understand the lack of information coming from the BOE.
posted by jr at 01:43 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
http://www.co.lucas.oh.us/boe/UnofficialResultsNovember%202005.pdf
is all I have, no response to the issues except having read they didn't have enough volunteers.
posted by psyche777 at 01:47 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
I am thrilled that Carty won!!! With Jack in office I felt our city was dying...I'll tell you...what he did to the business's here in Toledo with his smoking ban...hmhm...he hurt business owners with that ban, cost them thousands and thousands building smoking enclosures...my gosh...did anyone actually believe he had a chance??? I remember the Dirty Bird Restuarant and Nick and Jimmy's Bar and Grill both hanging banners on their business fronts stating "Mayor Jack Ford Not Welcome"...I think we all felt that way about him "Not Welcome running Toledo"...it doesn't STOP with the smoking ban with my dislike of Mayor Jack Ford as our Mayor...but, I will stop! He doesn't live at Government Center anylonger...thank goodness!
I liked Carty as Mayor, so he has a reputation as a "hot head", I call it passion...I loved his determination keeping graffiti off overpasses/underpasses, buildings and such, the painters were constantly, nearly non-stop painting the underpass here on Seaman...I loved it when he busted our garbage men sleeping...I agreed, why should they be paid for sleeping? I even loved the fire hydrants painted green! Carty was always doing something, somewhere to improve our city...right down to the airport!!!
I have been feeling our city Toledo has NO HOPE with all the Industry and Manufacturing jobs leaving...Carty in my opinion, gives our city HOPE...and...we can trust him NOT TO SLEEP ON THE JOB!!!
B.Frantz, your article was good...but, I don't believe those of us that voted for Carty voted him as the lesser evil...we appreciate what Carty did for Toledo while in office and with Jack Ford in office realized just how much Toledo needs Carty!
posted by MARIELORA at 01:54 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
So Kilpatrick "won" re-election in Detroit, eh? I'm sure there were no voting irregularities in that city.
A June 26, 2005 Blade op-ed about Detroit and Kwame:
"Today, [Detroit] is a ghastly nightmare of abandoned buildings; 895,000 people, most of them desperately poor, and some of the worst politicians this side of Fallujah. If nothing changes, the entire state of Michigan may be dragged into the abyss."
"The city, which is legally required to have a balanced budget, is facing an estimated $300 million deficit, though the real number is hard to know, since Detroit's independent auditor general has said he doesn't think Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick's administration understands its own figures."
"What the mayor does understand is how to live it up at the expense of poor taxpayers. Records show he blew vast sums on $5,000 per-night hotel suites in Las Vegas, Moet & Chandon champagne, and trendy nightclubs in Washington, and spent thousands more to hire limousines, which he sometimes kept waiting for hours in the street."
"There are plenty of other culprits to blame for the mess, from white flight and pure racism to the current city council, which for months insisted on paying the salaries of seven staffers for another council member who didn't need them - she had been dead for some time."
"If Detroit reaches the point where it can no longer pay its bills, something that seems increasingly likely if Mayor Kilpatrick is re-elected, Michigan will be forced to take it over, and send in an emergency administrator who will have near-dictatorial powers to run the city."
So Fallujah, MI could be run by a dictator someday soon. Has a familiar ring to it.
The part of the op-ed I disagree with:
"Whatever the solution is, it is clear that Detroit didn't get into this fix by itself, and it can't get out of it without help from the rest of the state."
So Detroit isn't soley responsible for its problems? Yeah, right.
More from the op-ed:
"Regionalism hasn't been popular until now, but it is about time to start - that is, if Michigan is serious about having a future and becoming economically competitive again."
"For as long as the state's biggest city looks like a combination of rural Guatemala and a World War II battlefield, and as long as Detroit's schools are terrible and the city services so poor, there is, frankly, no hope."
posted by jr at 02:13 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
historymike: Don't feed the Boota troll! Mother...I wonder if he kisses her with that mouth.
posted by Offshore at 02:40 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
From Bob Frantz's column about Carty:
"He promised new jobs by the boatload ..."
Yeah, it did seem that everything Carty discussed during the campaign was a high priority for him if he won.
From back in October:
"Mayoral candidate Carty Finkbeiner said that if elected he would make a proposed Toledo area research and technology corridor a high priority in his administration."
I don't think Carty is qualified to discuss bringing technology and other high-paying jobs to the area. He needs to hand that task off to others.
Once again, referring to the results of a study reported in an August 2005 Blade story titled 'Top-paying jobs flee Lucas Co.'
Based upon the story's title, one would think the blame for this goes to Ford. But the five-year study period was from 1998 to 2003. Four of those years were under Carty, assuming the years included in the study were 98, 99, 00, 01, and 02.
From the Blade story:
"Toledo's home county, Lucas, is the only one of Ohio's major urban counties to lose private-sector professional, scientific, and technical services jobs over the latest five-year period."
"Some of the losses clearly involve shifts within metro Toledo. The claim seems to be supported by Census Bureau data showing that such employment in neighboring Wood County grew by 23.5 percent."
So Toledo/Lucas County lost these types of jobs while Wood County gained them, and this happened mostly under Carty. That's why I don't buy the idea that Carty would have somehow kept OI from moving its headquarters to Perrysburg.
More from that August Blade story about engineering, advertising, and other high-paying professional positions leaving Lucas County:
"Lucas lost almost as much as the other 18 northwest Ohio and southeast Michigan counties in the region gained during the five-year period."
posted by jr at 02:44 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
"He needs to hand that task off to others."
To be specific, I mean the entire Carty administration needs to NOT be involved in trying to bring to the area the types of jobs that were lost under Carty's second term.
Just step aside. Don't get in the way. Let the private sector deal with it. Don't invent any rediculous ordinances or laws or new taxes. Don't play politics to get someone's name attached to a project. Clear a path and let the business people solve the problem.
posted by jr at 03:00 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
I heard there was problems with the Detroit vote and FBI involvement as well.
2005-11-06 from WDET
The F-B-I is opening an investigation into alleged voter fraud in Detroit…just days before the city’s mayoral election.
Detroit Public Radio’s Quinn Klinefelter has more…
For years many voters have complained of long delays and other problems at Detroit polls.
Yet the official in charge of the elections – City Clerk Jackie Currie – has consistently been re-elected herself.
But now the FBI is investigating Currie.
Despite a recent judges ruling forbidding the City Clerk from sending-out mass mailings of absentee ballots – Currie continued to do so.
Her election workers allegedly hand-delivered ballots to people suffering from dementia -- who could not name the Mayor of Detroit or remember if they voted in the August primary…but had reportedly fully-completed their absentee ballot – with the help of Currie’s workers.
When questioned by reporters about the possible illegality of such actions…Currie’s two word response was – quote – “Prove it.”
posted by psyche777 at 03:20 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
http://www.detnews.com/2005/metro/0511/09/A01-377060.htm
More detail...
posted by psyche777 at 03:23 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
just remember, when looking at the total number of Toledo voters that you can't count votes for Toledo Municipal Court...people in Ottawa Hills and Washington Township vote for those positions, but not mayor and council in Toledo...
posted by intrepid at 03:59 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
B.Frantz, your article was good...but, I don't believe those of us that voted for Carty voted him as the lesser evil...we appreciate what Carty did for Toledo while in office and with Jack Ford in office realized just how much Toledo needs Carty!
Thanks for the responses, Paddington, Dan, and MarieFlora. That's what I'm looking for.
Personally, I think Subcomandante Bob's piece on Carty the Saint is more accuracy than satire...for some. Too many people, it appears, think this guy is actually capable of doing everything he says...and that's just not healthy thinking. I, like everyone else, hope HIS second-coming truly IS the proverbial second-coming, but I'm more realistic. And as such, pessimistic.
Regardless, the right choice was made...this city couldn't have survived another 4 years of economic stagnation.
posted by BFrantz at 08:16 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
The election of Finkbeiner, AND the Usual Suspects for city council, AND the passage of Issue 1 do collectively suggest to me that Toledo is in for 4 years of ill-funded hype that can only end badly ... as badly as many people in Toledo found out in the period of 2000 until now.
If Toledoans are going to be dreaming of past economic glories, you all should make sure that you have the cash to pay for that particular charge account at the end of the month. Toledo has very little ability to attract businesses that pay prosperous wages. What wages are being paid now, are falling. The city liabilities are relatively large. Hence, this is not a future that motivates the granting of socio-economic credit.
Bob Frantz hit this kind of thing nearly squarely in his TFP article. To wit: Finkbeiner made a lot of promises that simply can't be honored. Finkbeiner spent months speaking with a lavishness that doesn't match economic reality and recent history. Jr pointed out right here that the flight of prosperous jobs happened significantly under Finkbeiner's watch, too, so there is a pointed set of evidence that the new mayor is incapable of delivering.
I still maintain that Finkbeiner is facing a critical period in 2007 when it will become too apparent that he will be unable to meet significant city obligations. He'll have to layoff cops and firemen. Certainly he would prefer to layoff them instead of his 5- and 6-digit "economic development" consultants. His "economic development" plans will start to look like Jack Ford is still running them.
P.S. I was prepared for Bad or Worse news this morning. Ford's re-election would have been Worse. But what we did get is still Bad.
posted by GuestZero at 11:26 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
I really didn't give Herr Finkenstein my vote(although I did select him on the ballot)-I really voted AGAINST Block's puppet. (sorry, GZ-had to hold my nose )
posted by Foolkiller at 04:25 A.M. EST on Thu Nov 10, 2005 #
Anybody notice that Evil Carty ALMOST came out during the speech last night? When the crowd (Fink's supporters, who were probably all drunk by that time) wouldn't be quiet, but kept applauding/cheering? I say almost, because Good Carty quickly kept him in check, rather than give his detractors more fodder.
So-Lousy came SO close to losing-DAMN!! So, as I predicted a longggg time ago here-in this town, you're LUCKY if you get rid of ONE of them. I'd rather Hancock would've got back in than So-Lousy, but-what the hell-she was a smug bitch, herself, who also considers herself better than the common rabble (as they all do)so good riddance. Can't believe that Schultz guy didn't do better than he did. At least issues 2 through 5 got massacred.
posted by Foolkiller at 04:26 A.M. EST on Thu Nov 10, 2005 #
Another good outcome-The Bulldog did NOT come in first-so he can probably kiss his head of council position goodbye-and, you know that's what he was going for.
posted by Foolkiller at 04:28 A.M. EST on Thu Nov 10, 2005 #
I also noted The Invisible Man (Rob) was there, he apparently finally turned off his invisibility cloak-hmmm...wonder if it was all a plan between him & Carty? Lud's "non-candidacy" , I mean. Just wondering out loud.
posted by Foolkiller at 04:33 A.M. EST on Thu Nov 10, 2005 #
Another good outcome-The Bulldog did NOT come in first-so he can probably kiss his head of council position goodbye-and, you know that's what he was going for.
Being top vote getter is not what determines eligibility for President of Council. Just look at Escobar's history. I believe he was 5th or something like that.
posted by DoknowDocare at 07:54 A.M. EST on Thu Nov 10, 2005 #
That's partly true, DoKnowDoCare, but by finishing second McCloskey loses a key piece of claim to the presidency.
Many, but not all, council presidents have historically been the top vote-getters. By finishing second, plus his ethical baggage, McCloskey should have no real claim to the top spot.
Unless Subcomandante Bob's take has some merit:
http://toledotales.blogspot.com/2005/11/mccloskey-addresses-new-council.html
posted by historymike at 09:01 A.M. EST on Thu Nov 10, 2005 #
Do is right...
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