http://nookularoption.blogspot.com/
They have the full press release for anyone who wants more info, as well as a pretty good webcast every Tuesday from 2 to 4 p.m.
:-)
posted by psyche777 at 09:48 P.M. EST on Mon Jan 30, 2006 #
Now, don't get me wrong. I'm all for fixing the brain drain and bringing economic and entrepreneur sprit to Toledo (believe me, if I thought Toledo could support my business, I would.)
But "Cool County Initiative"? That name right there is so uncool. Maybe they could get a "radical" dog with a surfer attitude to be their spokeman.
I do wish them luck and hope this campaign works, unlike the 123859839212 other attempts.
/Coming from a T-Town exile that left after 23 years growing up in the Glass City.
posted by jkl34 at 10:06 P.M. EST on Mon Jan 30, 2006 #
I respectfully submit that Mr. Konop's FIRST problem is his continually narrow perspective in that he's only concerned with Toledo/Lucas County. Granted, the office for which he's running is just that, but let's face the fact that the whole damn area is suffering from a chronic, if not terminal case of Head Up Ass in addition to "brain drain".
I'm absolutely convinced that NONE of these partisan morons cares about anything other than getting elected and enjoying their power and influence. I'm absolutely convinced that the A & B teams of Lucas County Democrats don't talk to each other, let alone Republicans, and that NONE of the various government officials around here, be they city/village mayors or councils, county commissioners, state reps, or Federal reps, talk to anyone. That's the first problem, territorial and partisan pissing matches.
Second part is that NOT ONE of these officials is listening to a damn thing being said. If Konop wants to know how to solve the brain drain, why doesn't he go past Government Center and find out where all these expensive studies by consultants are hiding in storage and read them?
And for all the pork that's being brought home from Washington, what's Marcy Kaptur done? $250 MILLION for a bridge to nowhere in Alaska, while Toledo's crowning achievement is a much-needed new bridge to replace an obsolete draw span on a fricking INTERSTATE. Whatever happened to running the south end of I-280 around to meet up with 75 to give us a real belt around Toledo? I bet there'd be some development out that way if it happened. Mind you, I'm no fan of ripping out farms and sticking up more condos, but sheesh, they need to replace the 75-475 split and running the traffic that goes up through downtown along an extended 280 and avoiding the split would be WONDERFUL, particularly while they're rebuilding the damn thing.
While we're on transportation failures, FOUR FOR TWO... this is another Marcy Kaptur failure. Sorry but TRANSPORTATION is important here... Toledo and the surrounding area has so much empty and unused warehouse space. For those of you with no clue, Sandusky has a "Triple Crown" facility, where special semi trailers are put on and taken off railroad wheels. There's four ways for them to come from the west on the highway, and that's 2, 163, the Turnpike, and US 20.
163 is as bad as 2 through Ottawa County, and runs into 2 near the end of the 4-lane section.
20 has enough truck traffic on it. It and the Turnpike dump the trucks off on route 4, another nasty stretch of 2-lane road, and coincidentally one of the better routes from north central Ohio to Columbus.
20, by the way, isn't in Marcy's district... but it's going to be widened.
Speaking of routes to Columbus... Toledo's the only major city in Ohio you can't get to Columbus from by Interstate. We NEED I-73/74. Hell, that will give the morons in charge in Toledo and Columbus one less excuse... a nice speedy safe way for pissed-off Northwest Ohioans to go down to Columbus to vent, and a nice safe speedy way for those morons to come up here and face reality.
While we're at it, someone needs to tell Columbus to do something about tuition, so the people around here can actually AFFORD TO GO TO COLLEGE. And UT and BGSU and MUO and Owens and Terra and whatever other schools are in NWOH need to drop the prick-waving dick fights, get their fat, overpaid presidents and deans out of their cushy offices, and figure out a coherent educational plan between them... starting with seriously good transfer/articulation agreements and possibly partnership deals. And since Ohio has something called the "Ohio Transfer Module" I'd suggest that they expand on this to include more classes. I'd also suggest uniform policies between them on the acceptance of College Level Examination Program exams for credit (better to pay $75 and test out of $700 of Composition I & II), as well as military credit, credit by experience, etc.
And THEN I would say that the expanded set of common courses be priced at a common price between ALL the schools, so we wouldn't hear the whining about "dropping freshman enrollment" and "unprepared students at UT/BGSU" which is happening because everyone runs to Owens to get a cheaper, easier education (and this has been professed to me by UT students in at Owens to pick up a few of their "harder" classes there to transfer back to UT. Maybe if the four-year schools dropped the BS about making freshmen live in the dorms and waived off people who live within X miles of campus or still with their family and will commute to class, they'd get more freshmen enrolled.
Okay, that's politics, transportation, and education... so I have to hit business and industry... after I eat. :)
posted by ZeroData at 12:05 A.M. EST on Tue Jan 31, 2006 #
I've said it before and I will always say it every time that name comes up.
Ben Konop is the wrong person for this task.
posted by BrianInFlorida at 03:45 A.M. EST on Tue Jan 31, 2006 #
Whatever happened to running the south end of I-280 around to meet up with 75 to give us a real belt around Toledo?
----------------------------------------
By God, you're right-I'd totally forgotten about that one. Shows you how long ago it was talked about/promised, I guess. It was intended to do away with the drawbridge, right? In case you weren't aware, by the way....there are but TWO places in all the United States that have drawbridges in the middle of an expressway. Toledo is one.
posted by Foolkiller at 07:00 A.M. EST on Tue Jan 31, 2006 #
And I have nothing against Konop, but it seems to me there are better possible candidates out there. Most of them aren't interested in running, though. When you take Block & his rag into consideration, I can understand why.
posted by Foolkiller at 07:03 A.M. EST on Tue Jan 31, 2006 #
CoolCounty? Good God! Weren't we embarrassed enough with the race riots?
I thought, traditionally, community leaders called town hall meetings. Isn't Ben Konop a carpet bagger moving around the state in search of an office to which he can get elected?
posted by MemyselfandI at 07:18 A.M. EST on Tue Jan 31, 2006 #
Here's an interesting concept, taking FK's comment up a notch...let's see who is actually going to run and then? Decide based on who is running not the mythical "wonder" candidate that would be so much better but? Isn't running....
I haven't decided whether I think Ben is the best candidate for Lucas County Commissioner or not, however I'm willing to listen to what he has to say.
:-)
posted by psyche777 at 08:03 A.M. EST on Tue Jan 31, 2006 #
Whatever happened to running the south end of I-280 around to meet up with 75 to give us a real belt around Toledo?
That plan has been dead for some time. The new plan is to run the new I-73 then down I-280 to Columbus and points south. But this plan has also been placed on the back burner for a while, despite the fact that it is named as a top 10 High Priority Corridor by the Federal DOT.
posted by thenick at 11:23 A.M. EST on Tue Jan 31, 2006 #
"Cool cities" program is in play in Michigan and so it looks like Konop is just taking a page from Granholm. Although Toledo is in such bad shape we probably need to try something different. As far as Konop goes, he can be no worse than the past 30 years of leadership in Lucas County. Looking at his bio, he may actually be smarter than most of the pols here. He went to UMich law school...so I may be biased being a Michigan fan.
PS. first time poster...long time reader.
posted by Ed at 11:42 A.M. EST on Tue Jan 31, 2006 #
That plan has been dead for some time. The new plan is to run the new I-73 then down I-280 to Columbus and points south. But this plan has also been placed on the back burner for a while, despite the fact that it is named as a top 10 High Priority Corridor by the Federal DOT.
I know that.
On the other hand, I-280 should be I-180, because spurs get odd first digits while belts get even first digits, and 280 is not a belt. (It doesn't connect to the same highway in two places, unlike 475 or 270 around Columbus.)
Think, though: if they actually completed running 280 around to 475 south of Perrysburg, that'd give traffic on the east side a boost, and maybe take some of the semis out of that nasty stretch of 75. If done right they'd give trucks a route to the port and docks area and the industrial area north of Oregon, plus they'd have the Front Street exit off of the new improved I-280 for access to the "Marina District".
posted by ZeroData at 11:45 A.M. EST on Tue Jan 31, 2006 #
Who cares who is the right person for the job. He is the one doing it. Look at all of the great ideas here. Will you all go to the meeting? Doubtful.
We as citizens need to take our country back. Citizens on both sides from all ends of the spectrum need to make plans for the future.
Start your own issue or get involved in one that already exists.
Sitting around and debating who is right/wrong is not action. It gets us no where.
John
posted by jdmsbyrd at 12:27 P.M. EST on Tue Jan 31, 2006 #
Zerodata:
What happened to the essay on business and industry? What kind of lunch are you taking, anyway? So far, you're batting a thousand.
I won't be attending the round table, as it is concerned with "retaining and attracting young professionals and entrepreneurs". I'm not a young, idealistic professional or entrepreneur; I'm old hoi polloi.
posted by madjack at 03:56 P.M. EST on Tue Jan 31, 2006 #
What kind of lunch are you taking, anyway?
Popeye brand spinach.
I'm busy preparing for the State of the Union Drinking Game.
posted by ZeroData at 07:14 P.M. EST on Tue Jan 31, 2006 #
JMSByrd:
I will not go to the meeting. I am not a Democrat and do not support Ben Konop.
Psych777: We have announced candidates on both sides of the aisle to choose from. Most, if not all, are better than a carpetbagger looking for a constituency that will elect him.
George Sarantou has served the city for many years as a city councilman. He's never run for anything else. He's not a carpetbagger.
Tim Wagener has been mayor of Maumee for six years now and has led that city well. He's never run for anything outside of Maumee. He's not a carpetbagger.
So, even without a set field, I know there will be a better candidate than a carpetbagger desperately seeking a constituency. I know all I need to know about Ben Konop to know I would vote for Maggie Thurber before I voted for him and it would pain me to do so.
posted by MemyselfandI at 09:42 P.M. EST on Tue Jan 31, 2006 #
MemyselfandI, what was your point in posting that?
posted by ZeroData at 10:38 P.M. EST on Tue Jan 31, 2006 #
I think to let me know that he doesn't like Ben, when that wasn't what my comment was relating to and that he's not interested in anything Ben has to say, which is fine, some of us are.
Nor was I aware that George Sarantou had formally declared he was running, the local republican party doesn't want him to last I heard.
I lived in Maumee, not while Tim has been Mayor but I know him. Harry Barlos also went from Maumee Mayor to Lucas County Commissioner. I'd listen to what Tim has to say as well if that opportunity presents itself.
The whole "carpetbagger" theme is uncalled for, especially since Ben has been in this area his whole life. It's not like he has no family roots and came here soley to run for office. I personally find that type of insult to be not necessary. If you disagree with him on his merits? Perfectly fine. I'm sure I won't agree with him on everything and as I stated, I have no idea who I am going to support when it comes time to make that decision. However it doesn't appear any of the other candidates for this office are doing much to get their views out there or to encourage involvement from those under age 35.
posted by psyche777 at 11:05 P.M. EST on Tue Jan 31, 2006 #
Did Mr. Konop live in the congressional district in which he ran? Either he is a carpetbagger here, or he was a carpetbagger there. In any event, he is a carpetbagger.
I don't know Ben personally. So I (you) can't say I don't like him personally. He might be an otherwise decent person. I separate politics from personalities. But politically, the most loathesome creature in the business is a carpetbagger.
Want to know how Toledoans feel about carpetbaggers? Ask Don Czarcinski what he's doing these days.
posted by MemyselfandI at 12:35 A.M. EST on Wed Feb 01, 2006 #
If Ben Konop's biography is accurate, MemyselfandI, you should owe him an apology for calling him a carpetbagger.
To quote from his website:
I was born, raised, and educated in the public schools of Lucas County. While blessed with a comfortable upbringing, my parents made sure that I realized the value of a dollar and cared for those who were less fortunate. While in junior high, my father would drop me off at Reverend Savage’s soup kitchen in the central city to volunteer with the homeless. At age 12, I got my first job as a paper boy for The Toledo Blade.
Throughout high school, I was active in athletics , playing varsity baseball and captaining the varsity basketball team. I was also a columnist and editor on my school newspaper, The Arrowhead.
In 1992, while a junior in high school, I became active in my first political campaign by volunteering for Bill Clinton in Northwest Ohio. The next summer, I was fortunate enough to have Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur appoint me to be a Page in the United States House of Representatives in Washington, D.C. After witnessing first hand the ability of public servants to make a positive difference in the lives of Americans, I knew that I wanted to dedicate my life to public service.
To me, that's MUCH less a carpetbagger than Senator Hillary Clinton of New York.
And IF the whole problem in Lucas County is currently the A vs B team issue, that everyone is an insider on one team vs the other, then I would think the BEST solution is to get some outsiders in there with no loyalties to either side anyhow? Wouldn't you?
posted by ZeroData at 01:26 A.M. EST on Wed Feb 01, 2006 #
Of course you're not going to read "opPROtunist" in his resume.
I know for a fact that there is someone within the Toledo Democratic Party much more qualified and sincere on regrouping the party and unless he steps forward, this "democrats for the future of Toledo" will fail.
Zero, if I wrote my resume on a web site, you'd shit your pants in shock. Ben is his own cheerleader.
I based my feelings on Ben by his intentions and ambitions. I've read where he's been and saw where he was going, and it is not pretty if you're hoping for a clean slate of candidates and Ben leading them.
Come forward and grasp the reigns, be the person that changed the political face of Toledo towards something to be proud of and create an environment to get things moving forward and completing the task of making Toledo "Ohio's City of the Future".
By the way, Data, MeMyselfAndI isn't the only person to properly label Ben a "carpetbagger", "Most of the Konop campaign was here in Allen County," Mr. Holmes said. "It was a very negative campaign. Even though a lot of people don't like negative campaigning, it works."
During the campaign, Mr. Oxley and Mr. Konop traded barbs on residency issues and experience.
Mr. Oxley called his opponent a carpetbagger because he moved to the 4th district to run for Congress.
I just googled Ben's name and got all kinds of information that helped me to base my decision on Ben. "OpProtunists" for those correcting my spelling, was intentional on purpose.
posted by BrianInFlorida at 05:05 A.M. EST on Wed Feb 01, 2006 #
So I guess when he made his last run for office, his biography read: I was born, raised, and educated in public schools in Allen County. . . Or maybe when it was convenient, he claimed to have been raised in Hancock County, or Richland county.
Once a carpetbagger, always a carpetbagger. Carpetbaggers lack principles. They just want to get elected and there is no more loathesome creature in politics.
posted by MemyselfandI at 07:29 A.M. EST on Wed Feb 01, 2006 #
On the other hand, I-280 should be I-180, because spurs get odd first digits while belts get even first digits, and 280 is not a belt. (It doesn't connect to the same highway in two places, unlike 475 or 270 around Columbus.)
Not really. A even-numbered three digit interstate just means that the road is a bypass connecting two expressways together.
Think, though: if they actually completed running 280 around to 475 south of Perrysburg, that'd give traffic on the east side a boost, and maybe take some of the semis out of that nasty stretch of 75. If done right they'd give trucks a route to the port and docks area and the industrial area north of Oregon, plus they'd have the Front Street exit off of the new improved I-280 for access to the "Marina District".
Is there enough port traffic to make that feasible? 795 seems to be more than adequate for the time being for port traffic. Also, connecting I-280 to I-475 wouldn't really create a shorter route to the Marina District, since Perrysburg residents can use the downtown I-75 exit and Maumee has the Trail. It doesn't make much sense to drive all the way out to Stony Ridge to get downtown. It may help Woodville Mall, but the impact on the Marina District would be neglegible.
posted by thenick at 09:44 A.M. EST on Wed Feb 01, 2006 #
Brian I know it came from Oxley, which doesn't make it right or correct. If Oxley posted here? I'd write the same thing to him.
I'm interested in hearing what candidates have to say. Doesn't matter what political party they are. If and when the Republicans ever come out with something similiar? If they invite me? I'll be there.
This isn't just about Ben incase you hadn't noticed, there are other people that attend these meetings. I think this area is important and I'd like to see positive things get done rather than just sitting around complaining about them.
If I think personally a Republican is the best candidate? I'll vote for him/her. If I think the best candidate is a Democrat, a Libertarian, an Independent, whatever party? I'll vote for him/her. However how can you discover who will end up being the best candidate if you don't bother to keep an open mind.....
posted by psyche777 at 10:01 A.M. EST on Wed Feb 01, 2006 #
psyche,
Believe me when I tell you I understand what you are saying, but this is what I am saying. There is one person more qualified to accomplish this endeavour and carry some credibility and respect with it as well. I appreciate your respecting my views and I'm not going to shove mine down your throat, but I am looking at this picture objectively, not politically. Personally, I could care less if we had one party or fifty parties, the person that will do the job with integrity and ethics deserves more than someone with a personal agenda.
I have been blessed with an open mind. That same open mind accessed as much information as possible and had the ability to make a judgement call with the evidence presented.
I appreciate you defending Ben's character. But I know there is someone within the Democratic Party that's just as fed up with the "politics as usual" and these petty faction spats that someone will come forward and bring the Democrats TOGETHER.
In my opinion, with all the Googled evidence presented unto me, Ben is not that person. That's all I can say.
posted by BrianInFlorida at 04:47 P.M. EST on Wed Feb 01, 2006 #
I agree. I've never voted a straight ticket in my life. I could very well vote for Tim Wagener.
But there is nothing that could make me vote for an unprincipled carpetbagger which is what Ben Konop is.
posted by MemyselfandI at 06:00 P.M. EST on Wed Feb 01, 2006 #
Okay guys, that's fine but I hope you don't mind if some of us just continue the conversation as to what ideas Ben and some of the others had. If I decide Ben is that person for me? I know Brian, you and I will continue to talk and agree on what we do agree on and disagree on that. Like I said though, I haven't made that decision and there is more to these meetings than just Ben. It's hearing what other people have to say and are thinking. Then of course teasing Ben because well, that's a part of my personality.....
John, thank you for coming tonight, I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to talk to you more, and I'm interested in what you thought about tonight too. I'm going to transcribe my notes and? Will post more later.
:-)
posted by psyche777 at 09:22 P.M. EST on Wed Feb 01, 2006 #
http://glasscityjungle.blogspot.com/2006/02/reinvent-dream-for-lucas-county.html
My notes and my impressions from what happened at tonight's meeting for those interested.
:-)
posted by psyche777 at 10:58 P.M. EST on Wed Feb 01, 2006 #
Thanks for posting the notes. The Arts in Toledo, eh? I've read Dr. Florida's book, and I listened to him speak when he was in town back in the fall of 2003. I believe Toledo could do more with the arts. Back in 2003, I saw a list of the top 25 arts cities in the U.S., and along with the usual suspects, Columbus and Pittsburgh were on the list. Why not Toledo?
I have a feeling that the regime change at Toledo's mayoral position will not help Toledo's arts. In Carty's state of the city speech, he never discussed the arts. The arts were blanked. Ford set down a foundation for building the arts in Toledo.
Here is a posting I made almost a year ago that I was planning to re-post based upon Carty not mentioning the arts in his speech.
"Strategic Toledo Arts plan - Are the "arts" in Toledo being used to improve our economy? In his last three state of the city speeches, Mayor Ford mentioned the arts as an economic engine. Regular public meetings about the arts were held throughout 2002 with a prelim plan released in Sep 2003. A dedicated website (www.toledoarts.org) launched in Oct 2003. The arts plan was officially released during the Mayor's Summit on the Arts at the Art Museum in Nov 2003 where guest speaker Richard Florida spoke about how the arts can be used to improve a region's economy. Dr. Florida's ideas have both supporters and detractors. Dr. Florida uses the gay and bohemian indexes to determine a city's prosperity. Lastly, there's hardly any local interest for an arts levy."
Here is a 2005 Top 25 arts cities listing that's a bit different from the one I saw in 2003 because this one does a top 25 for different sized cities.
Category 1: Big Cities
(Populations of 500,000 and over)
1. New York, N.Y
2. Chicago, Ill.
3. San Francisco, Calif.
4. Washington, D.C.
5. Los Angeles, Calif.
6. Seattle, Wash.
7. Boston, Mass.
8. Austin, Texas
9. Philadelphia, Pa.
10. San Diego, Calif.
11. Baltimore, Md.
12. Charlotte, N.C.
13. Dallas/Fort Worth, Texas
14. Denver, Colo.
15. Portland, Ore.
16. Phoenix, Ariz.
17. Houston, Texas
18. San Antonio, Texas
19. Nashville, Tenn.
20. Columbus, Ohio
21. Milwaukee, Wis.
22. Memphis, Tenn.
23. Jacksonville, Fla.
24. Indianapolis, Ind.
25. Detroit, Mich.
Category 2: Mid-Sized Cities
(Populations of 100,000 to 499,000)
1. New Orleans, La.
2. Albuquerque, N.M.
3. Scottsdale, Ariz.
4. Las Vegas, Nev.
5. Honolulu, Hawaii
6. Atlanta, Ga.
7. Savannah, Ga.
8. Ann Arbor, Mich.
9. Miami, Fla.
10. Pittsburgh, Pa.
11. Tucson, Ariz.
12. Colorado Springs, Colo.
13. Cleveland, Ohio
14. Minneapolis, Minn.
15. Kansas City, Mo.
16. St. Louis, Mo.
17. St. Petersburg, Fla.
18. Providence, R.I.
19. Alexandria, Va.
20. Tampa, Fla.
21. Cincinnati, Ohio
22. Tacoma, Wash.
23. Buffalo, N.Y.
24. Athens, Ga.
25. Salem, Ore.
Category 3: Small Cities and Towns
(Populations under 100,000)
1. New Hope/Lahaska, Pa.
2. Berkeley Springs, W.Va.
3. Saugatuck, Mich.
4. Tubac, Ariz.
5. Eureka Springs, Ark.
6. Taos, N.M.
7. Benicia, Calif.
8. Asheville, N.C.
9. Northampton, Mass.
10. Sarasota, Fla.
11. Aspen, Colo.
12. Burlington, Vt.
13. Carmel, Calif.
14. Portsmouth, N.H.
15. Charleston, S.C.
16. Santa Fe, N.M.
17. Naples, Fla.
18. Boulder, Colo.
19. Laguna Beach, Calif.
20. Key West, Fla.
21. Cumberland, Md.
22. Corning, N.Y.
23. Chapel Hill, N.C.
24. Sedona, Ariz.
25. Brattleboro, Vt.
Buffalo, Pittsburgh, and Cleveland, but no Toledo.
Here's a posting I made on Nov 14, 2003 that may shed some light on the thinking that exists in Toledo. First of all, Dr. Florida preaches in his book talent, technology, and tolerance. On the same day Dr. Florida was speaking at the Art Museum, the Blade published a story about how Toledo City Council was going to address the pressing issue of building colors.
From that Blade story:
"The bright palette of Mexico and other Latino cultures might have to be muted under a proposed set of standards for building facades in Toledo. Several buildings in the 1200 block of Broadway are painted in bright colors evocative of Mexico. The colorful storefronts favored by Mexican culture probably would not be permitted under the design standards as now written. The code could make an exception specifically for the Viva neighborhood."
I never followed up to see what happened with this and whether or not an ethnic neighborhood had to mute their colors. Tolerance, eh?
Some of my other comments from that Nov 2003 posting:
"The Mayor introduced Dr. Florida, and I'm guessing other city leaders were present as well. Hopefully they got the message. Dr. Florida's discussion today was as fascinating and enlightening as his book."
"Dr. Florida said cities should stop sprawl. Nice idea, but good luck with that one around here. He emphasized "density" in a community."
"Dr. Florida suggested cities shouldn't invest in mega projects. I wonder if the languishing Marina District project counts? He said governments should make a lot of little investments. He suggested leaders should also invest in neighborhoods."
"Dr. Florida mentioned the "squelchers" who stifle creativity. Seems this ridiculous city ordinance about the colors used on building facades would be a "squelcher." "
The whole 2002-2003 Toledo Arts process, culminating with "the plan" looks like another project that had initial energy but soon ran out of steam. I don't expect much to change from a government standpoint with the art-less Carty is at the helm.
On Carty's mission statement that lists 34 things he wants to get done, the arts are not mentioned.
posted by jr at 11:56 P.M. EST on Wed Feb 01, 2006 #
Maybe with some assistance from the County some of that could be encouraged even from the art-less Carty. Especially if he takes the time to listen to what some of these Democrats are saying. He supposedly wants to keep and attract more young professionals.
Thanks Jr., I'm glad I went and I'm interested in seeing what John's impressions were since he was there too.
I have to admit the aqua farming intrigued me as an idea. Especially since the numbers of fish eaten that are farmed versus wild is increasing.
:-)
posted by psyche777 at 12:25 A.M. EST on Thu Feb 02, 2006 #
My notes from the November 2005 New Urbanism meeting where someone from Toledo Grows gave a presentation and discussed many things, including fish farms.
"Seafood imports are second largest contributor behind oil/energy to U.S. trade deficit. Aquaculture or fish farms are one of three new major economic opportunities available in the new millenium. Tilapia popular species from these enclosed fish farms, which can function in northern climates."
posted by jr at 12:47 A.M. EST on Thu Feb 02, 2006 #
This kind of thing is what worries me most about Mr Konop. I believe that he's not facing socio-economic reality.
Let's take a for-instance. The Blade reported Dec. 14th 2005 that Mr Konop "previewed his entry yesterday [for the 2006 commissioner's race] with a call to modernize the county's struggling economy".
The problem with that viewpoint is that a struggling economy IS modernized. Keeping the workforce lean and hungry is the 21st Century business model. This workforce will eventually collapse as consumers, but that's the long-term view, and only short-term (i.e. looting) actions are valid in the same model.
Even more damning for Mr Konop is this statement further down in the article:
"[Mr Konop] said he'd like to help Lucas County develop a smaller, more specialized manufacturing base."
Other than that being exactly what's happening already without Mr Konop (or Ms Thurber, for that matter) being involved, altogether we can only question a politican's desire for a smaller base, considering all the unemployed around here.
A smaller, specialized base is simply serving the Corporate Monobloc that is trying to rule this area. We're being driven to the brink of poverty by their demands already (to wit: they want the tax base to pay all their expenses, but they don't want to be IN the tax base). Continued concessions are only going to reach the Rhineland '36 stage, where it's either a future of slavery or war.
What we need to hear from Mr Konop is the admission that they (county government) will not counter corporate power, hence the government itself is too large. Jobs will continue to flee and that takes the tax base with it. Lacking income, the government should downsize.
posted by GuestZero at 05:30 A.M. EST on Thu Feb 02, 2006 #
So what Mr. Konop is saying is he wants to shrink our industrial base, make it more "specialized", and therefore, more vulnerable to recession.
Wow! Did Findlay and Lima dodge a bullet!
You want to EXPAND the industrial base and you want to INCREASE the variety of businesses in the county so when recession hits, the damage is much less severe and more dissipated.
Let us hope Lucas County can also dodge the bullet so the Konop road show can go to Cadiz, Ohio and see if he can get elected there.
posted by MemyselfandI at 06:08 P.M. EST on Thu Feb 02, 2006 #
Not even close MMI
Increasing the variety of businesses as well as retaining what you have is part of the Creative Economy. Maybe you might want to read the book, it's pretty good.
Creating opportunity for specialized industry does not mean he is trying to shrink anything. Reality is the automotive industry is not going to continue to be a source of jobs in the future.
Thanks for your positive insight though - lol
:-)
posted by psyche777 at 07:41 P.M. EST on Thu Feb 02, 2006 #
This whole "give them stuff to do and they'll stay" routine is bullshit. Give them jobs and young people will stay and then people will open the businesses and such that cater to them. That is the natural progression.
The free market takes care of everything. This artificially induced crap like financial incentives to art galleries (please) won't do anything to keep young people if they don't have jobs.
Forget the Florida book and read THE WORLD IS FLAT by Thomas Friedman.
Guys like Konop who want to create a program to solve the ills of a crappy are just engaging in mental masturbation. Get government (and the unions) out of the way of the economy and let it thrive.
posted by MemyselfandI at 09:48 P.M. EST on Thu Feb 02, 2006 #
I found Friedman's book to be a major yawn. Very disappointing considering some of his past work. His book contained information that anyone who has paid even the slightest attention to as far as globalization already knew. The only real thing his book showed me is how to become a best seller on name not content.
But then again I enjoyed and agreed with the major premise of the Tipping Point, so we are probably on opposite ends of even which books we like.
:-)
posted by psyche777 at 11:54 P.M. EST on Thu Feb 02, 2006 #
MemyselfandI said: "he wants to shrink our industrial base, make it more "specialized", and therefore, more vulnerable to recession"
Hmm, good point. I confess I missed that nuance.
psyche777 said: "Reality is the automotive industry is not going to continue to be a source of jobs in the future."
Why? The need for more fuel-efficient or -alternative vehicles is certainly rising -- rising so much that even the autocratic Lords of the Current Industrial Order are starting to notice. Why can't there be a resurgence in automotive activity around here? Do we think that we'll be driving oil-based cars for more decades from foreign designs and construction?
If you believe that America's automobile corporations are incapable of innovating themselves away from the end result of market death, then your conclusion is probably correct.
posted by GuestZero at 08:17 A.M. EST on Fri Feb 03, 2006 #
Guys like Konop who want to create a program to solve the ills of a crappy are just engaging in mental masturbation. Get government (and the unions) out of the way of the economy and let it thrive.
Ah, yes, the tired old standard, 'get everyone's out of the way and business will prosper...' axiom.
Sigh.
I suppose you are right, MMI, those labor and safety laws are a real bother. Mr. Big ought to have every right to do what the hell he pleases in his own factory. Keep government inspectors out and have them mind their own business! After all, this is the Wild West and President Tyler ought to take care of protecting us from terrorists rather than harassing the poor, defenseless businessman who is just trying to make a living for his family...
posted by limedrops911 at 08:26 A.M. EST on Fri Feb 03, 2006 #
I'd say the history of the American Automotive Industry and the increasing pension/benefits cost issue when in relation to newer and non-US manufacturers is going to be a continuing issue. I also don't believe an area should place the majority of its "eggs" so to speak in one basket. If you have a manufacturing base that is varied the chances of having a major crisis if one or two smaller companies leave is survivable.
I'd also point out Ben stated he would work to retain and build on what was already here in Lucas County, however I assumed that would be a given. The meeting was focusing on an exchange of ideas surrounding the concept of the Creative Economy model.
posted by psyche777 at 02:09 P.M. EST on Fri Feb 03, 2006 #
No Limedrops. That is not what I meant and you're smart enough to know that!
government programs to "create" jobs are almost always a waste. They make politicians feel good and it makes it look like they are doing something.
They have gone out of vogue on the federal level. Liberals like Humphrey, Muskie, and McGovern, used to introduce bills like "Work America Now" and the "American Full Employment Act" full of stupid job training programs that wasted a lot of money. Reagan had the good sense to kill the Comprehensive Employment and Training Act, but the Democrats that controlled congress replaced it with the Job Training and Partnership Act. And they blame Reagan for the deficit.
posted by MemyselfandI at 06:37 P.M. EST on Fri Feb 03, 2006 #
I have only read excerpts from Dr. Florida's book, but I attended his lecture here in Toledo. A strong arts community is a result of a healthy economy -- not the cause of it. My point is, make the economy healthy with jobs and the arts will follow.
Carpetbagger boy is talking about this because he doesn't have anything else to talk about. His party has conrolled this city since the 1960s and look at the mess we're in.
posted by MemyselfandI at 06:39 P.M. EST on Fri Feb 03, 2006 #
The arts community was just a small part of it as well as a small part of what I wrote was discussed.
Nor did I say or Ben say that the arts community alone would create a healthy economy. It is a part of what young people want in a community.
Anyway, at least "Carpetbagger boy" is willing to discuss ideas rather than be a naysayer. Lord knows there are enough of those around and some seem to have that down to an art form of their own.
:-)
posted by psyche777 at 08:31 P.M. EST on Fri Feb 03, 2006 #
OT, MMI, I read where you asked why people assumed you were a guy...I'm guessing that means you aren't a guy.
I thought you were a guy, so I apologize for calling you "he". You came across to me as a guy and your profile doesn't say either way.
posted by psyche777 at 08:35 P.M. EST on Fri Feb 03, 2006 #
Liberals like Humphrey, Muskie, and McGovern, used to introduce bills like "Work America Now" and the "American Full Employment Act" full of stupid job training programs that wasted a lot of money.
Job training programs that wasted a lot of money? Do I see an oxymoron here?
Those damned LIBERALS, wanting to help out folks to get a job, throwing YOUR MONEY down the drain.
I think I understand where you are going, MMI: cutting those programs is a double benefit to CONSERVATIVES:
1. they help you keep your precious tax dollars and
2. it keeps you right-wingers happy that, as a result, the welfare rolls increase and you can rant about 'those damned welfare cheats!'
posted by limedrops911 at 08:47 P.M. EST on Fri Feb 03, 2006 #
Toledo should not abandon it's manufacturing roots. If anything, Toledo should work hard to grow them. Toledo has a brand new Jeep plant, and several new suppliers have also started up in Toledo in recent years, right?
Toledo needs GM to expand its Powertrain plant here. This is by far the most important issue for the city right now. Have you seen or heard much about this in the news? Stories are created almost daily about the measly $35 million Westgate fiasco. I just hope the city, the county, and the state have done everything possible to convince GM to expand in Toledo.
It's almost as if people don't realize the auto industry uses technology. Have you driven or ridden inside a relatively new vehicle lately? Isn't there a good bit of technology in there? Don't the new Jeeps have high-tech inside them?
The high tech companies aren't just IBM, Sun, Cisco, Microsoft, and Google. GM, Ford, Chrysler, and related companies are also high tech firms. Doesn't the auto industry hire engineers too?
Saying Toledo needs to convert to a knowledge-based econonmy is easy rhetoric. I mean, we know we have to embrace technology.
Toledo isn't all of a sudden going to attract a bunch of banking, insurance, health care, and other information-intensive companies like the kind that exist in Columbus. Toledo is South Detroit. Toledo won't ever be North Columbus.
Toledo should continue to exploit it's base, which is the Maumee River, Lake Erie, I-75, I-80, agriculture, and the auto industry. The Anderson + Jeep. One will produce biofuel for the other. Technology is needed for that.
The San Francisco area has Silicon Valley. Manhattan has or had Silcon Alley. The Detroit area has Automation Alley. A lot of high tech companies exist in and around Detroit in order to support companies related to the auto industry. Toledo needs to attract more auto industry-related companies. The technology part will then take care of itself.
Nice tech ideas for the Toledo area do exist, such as the biotech corridor and the technology corridor, but they are still ideas. But auto-industry businesses exist now in Toledo. That's reality.
posted by jr at 12:40 A.M. EST on Sat Feb 04, 2006 #
Limedrops,
I don't blame Mssrs Muskie, Humphrey, and McGovern for trying. It was something new and their cause was noble.
However, it has been proven that government programs don't create jobs. Caring about the unemployed does not make throwing taxpayer money away somehow noble.
posted by MemyselfandI at 01:29 A.M. EST on Sat Feb 04, 2006 #
Psych777,
Maybe I am the proud home of a Y chromosome, or maybe I'm of the XX variety. I'll never say.
My ideas on economic development are:
Spend money cleaning up the mess left by our industrial heritage so the land can be put back to productive use.
Reduce the influence of organized labor.
Lower taxes (our income tax is the highest in Ohio and what do we have to show for it?)
End one party rule in the city (if it's good at the state level, certainly it will benefit us on the local level)
Quit ridiculing ourselves and show some pride in the city that Robert LaFollete once called the Crown Jewel of Urban America.
I'm not a native Toledoan. I'm here by choice. I actually like it here and I like the city. For some reason, natives don't.
I'm not sure where Ben is from. Maybe he's from Lima. Maybe he's from Findlay. Maybe he's from Mansfield or Crestline. He sure seemed eager to represent them in Congress. Now he wants to come "back" here and tell us how we ought to run the county.
posted by MemyselfandI at 01:35 A.M. EST on Sat Feb 04, 2006 #
I must address these ideas of yours, hopefully avoiding criticism birthed of your concision:
MemyselfandI said: "Spend money cleaning up the mess left by our industrial heritage so the land can be put back to productive use."
This industrial heritage was concurrent with the concept of OWNERSHIP. Hence we should locate these owners and charge them appropriately for things like environmental cleanup. Toledo has been completely incompetent at ever doing this. In fact, just chasing down owners of small properties and making them pay their taxes has proven to be out of the city's skillset. For instance, the Arbuckle Building. Has the owner paid his back taxes on that property? If not, has the city seized the land? Has the city charged him for the cleanup after the fire, and then seized appropriate property in lieu of payment?
MemyselfandI said: "Reduce the influence of organized labor."
Why? Without economic democracy, we cannot have political democracy. I agree that the excesses of unions should be curtailed, but that's a task for the union membership and companies involved, not the general public. To date, the union at Jeep is clearly out of control and should be reorganized, even disbanded temporarily.
MemyselfandI said: "Lower taxes (our income tax is the highest in Ohio and what do we have to show for it?)"
But the elite running the government and the media cheerleaders who run their PR, don't agree with this statement when it comes to YOUR pocket over the pocket of the rich man. Any plan for lower taxes is simply going to be aligned with the wealthy, and the comman man is necessarily going to find himself poorer as he is tapped to make up for the difference. (Of course, I'm assuming that the government won't downsize in response to lesser income. Any honest view of Toledo's city and county government shows a clear inability to downsize.)
MemyselfandI said: "Quit ridiculing ourselves and show some pride in the city that Robert LaFollete once called the Crown Jewel of Urban America."
I can agree against using ridicule without thought, but since the last mayoral election constrained our choices to "Lazy or Crazy", the avoidance of ridicule is equally the avoidance of REALITY. The reality of Toledo is that it's a post-industrial city that's in economic free-fall. As with Detroit, so much capital has fled that what remains is very suspect to rule by mediocrity. Literally, what's left is so not worth fighting for, that charlatans can largely rule the political scene. Literally, one of the top vote-fetching councilmen is man under serious legal indictment. What morons voted for McCloskey, knowing full well he's as corrupt as a leper sore? Literally, a councilwoman with a clear public contempt for the rule of law almost achieved her former seat. What morons voted for McConnell-Hancock, knowing full well she considers herself above the law?
Either they accept this corruption or they are willfully ignorant ... leading directly to the absolute justice of heaping ridicule upon such a system.
Toledo's problems are deep-seated and rife with dishonesty towards ourselves and each other, as well as the outside world (towards which prosperity is fleeing). This system only merits contempt.
MemyselfandI said: "I'm not a native Toledoan. I'm here by choice. I actually like it here and I like the city. For some reason, natives don't."
Want some things to put it into focus for you?
We have too many streets with combinations of potholes and speed bumps. The Romans knew more about roads than we do, since they at least knew that roads must be FLAT.
We had a mayor (and have him again, note well!) that required fire hydrants be repainted in colors that made them blend in during summer, and made them much harder to find in winter with snow drifts. Like all emergency equipment, hydrants MUST be a bright and alarming color like RED. But when you're an effete simpleton like Carty, this truth cannot penetrate your brain; and when you're a highly complacent Toledoan, the result is of no consequence.
Suspicious fires are brushed off, as if the fire department has better things to do. I myself had called out a fire team about a suspicious environmental spill (by Arnie's in 2002), but the head guy from the pumper who showed blatantly said that (paraphrasingly) "how do you KNOW that's toxic?" and left in disgust.
Police detectives probably know more about playing fantasy football in their offices than finding drug dealers, murderers and pimps.
2/3rds of the city police force are not policing. They are either driving desks or "non-service" patrol cars.
Factories with prosperous wages are being replaced with service businesses that only at best offer living wages. Thousands of Toledoans are being forced to take 2nd jobs to retain their prior standard of living, and often don't even retain it anyway.
A crew of crooks had been stealing manhole covers in West Toledo. They had stolen so many that I'm careful about driving in that area now.
Having lived in several other American cities, I've literally never seen a society of people so intensely disengaged from everyone else. People go to work, then rush home, seldom emerging.
The examples are just endless. So if you like Toledo, you must be engaging in willful ignorance, or you simply don't care about how poor your neighbors in general are becoming, and as well you just don't care about what will happen to the local society when a few bumps are encountered during this economic free-fall. The recent North Toledo rioting was just a field test of the muscles of social unrest.
MemyselfandI said: "I'm not sure where Ben is from."
The Blade has clearly reported that Mr Konop was born and raised in Toledo. His seeking a local office here is not a carpetbagging event.
posted by GuestZero at 11:01 A.M. EST on Sat Feb 04, 2006 #
In many cases, GuestZero, the owner of polluted land is dead, doesn't exist anymore, or can't be located. It has to be done. We have to do it. No more waiting on federal "Superfund" programs.
I endorse the principles under which organized labor was created. However, do you really think they are principled anymore? They wield way too much political influence (They care a lot more about their political influence than helping their members). It scares off potential employers.
I'm not going to address that class-envy bullshit. If my wallet is bigger than yours, go out and get a bigger wallet or quit whining.
A city is not defined by its government; it's defined by its people. I love Toledo.
Can't argue with you about the government. I still love it here.
So Ben WAS a carpetbagger, but isn't now? He developed some principles in the last year or so? Somehow, I doubt it. He has the same level of morality of a bob McCloskey.
posted by MemyselfandI at 12:04 P.M. EST on Sat Feb 04, 2006 #
MemyselfandI said: "In many cases, GuestZero, the owner of polluted land is dead, doesn't exist anymore, or can't be located. It has to be done. We have to do it. No more waiting on federal "Superfund" programs."
So sorry, but in many cases it's instead the case that city, county, state and federal officials are just not keen on looking up one of the monied elite and holding them responsible for their property. And even if dead, dead people have estates that might be seized (although I'm ignorant on the specific laws for such). This just a failure of will, not an action of justice.
And when it then comes down to it, to add insult to injury, these properties are cleaned up on the public dime and then handed over to those welfare queens (US corporations). We're supposed to be AGAINST centralized economic planning, remember?
MemyselfandI said: "[D]o you really think [organized labor is] principled anymore?"
Not really. You can see that from my statements. I firmly believe that (for instance) the Jeep union doesn't exist in a practical sense, and the rank and file should reorganize or disband it ... which I've said before.
MemyselfandI said: "[Organized labor] scares off potential employers."
Potential employers these days are scared off merely by the demand that they pay taxes like everyone else. So ask me if I care that much about what "scares" them. Besides, given what's happening at the Jeep supplier plants, I seriously doubt that unionization even CAN spread to a new factory in town.
MemyselfandI said: "I'm not going to address that class-envy bullshit."
Huh? You should learn to quote if you want me to follow along.
MemyselfandI said: "A city is not defined by its government; it's defined by its people. I love Toledo."
The people around here are seeing a distinct hit to their quality of life due to this government. And it's not all government that I complained about; for instance, its the people themselves that are performing robberies in broad daylight in West Toledo, are taking huge loans on new houses, etc. So, what's to love? What aspects of Toledoan living and its people do you find so snuggley?
MemyselfandI said: "So Ben WAS a carpetbagger, but isn't now?"
I'm saying quite clearly that a native boy returning to take up a political office in his hometown is not a carpetbagging act. If he carries the "carpetbagger" moniker for you for the rest of his life for running against Oxley, then so be it, but you should say so.
MemyselfandI said: "[Konop] has the same level of morality of a bob McCloskey."
Now we must demand proof for such an overreaching statement. At the very least, McCloskey is under indictment. Where's Konop's indictment? What exactly places Konop in McCloskey's same corrupt class for you?
posted by GuestZero at 09:30 P.M. EST on Sat Feb 04, 2006 #
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