My first thought is since it's printed in a major paper I'm not sure if I believe it.
Anybody have a resource to verify the information in the article? (Sad that this is my first response but I was sent hopping on too many red herrings by the mainstream media these last few years)
posted by katie82640 at 05:18 P.M. EST on Tue Mar 14, 2006 #
http://polipundit.com/index.php?p=12435
Various sources listed as a part of this post, some that agree, some that disagree.
posted by psyche777 at 05:21 P.M. EST on Tue Mar 14, 2006 #
I should point out that is a "conservative" blog but they do provide a lot of links and information presented so that you can make up your own mind. Especially for this particular post.
posted by psyche777 at 05:29 P.M. EST on Tue Mar 14, 2006 #
Sad that this is my first response but I was sent hopping on too many red herrings by the mainstream media these last few years
Nothing to be sad about Katie. By all means check it out. I'd prefer accuracy vs hype. It's good to see that there are questions regarding what we've been told with respect to the "NO WMD", "BUSH LIED" stuff that's been bentered about.
I just wonder if the usual suspects will take a step back and say "Let's see where it goes" or if it will be dismissed as nothing.
posted by WhiteAfricanAmerican at 05:38 P.M. EST on Tue Mar 14, 2006 #
Something I'm confident of is that if there are WMDs in Iraq then it will eventually come out.....I hope that's not misplaced trust. Hopefully they'll continue to report on the findings in these recordings and documents. There's no telling what is going to be found.
All the rhetoric about WMDs on both sides is just that.....rhetoric. The real benefits and consequences of the invasion of Iraq will be hashed out once Bush is out of office for a while. It's very similar to how the world reacted to Israel bombing the nuclear reactor in Iraq in the early 80s....at first there were a lot of complaints and protests, but those same countries (ours included) are now thankful Israel bombed that reactor.
posted by HeyHey at 06:01 P.M. EST on Tue Mar 14, 2006 #
I don't know if actual WMDs will ever be found, but I believe they were there or the ingredients to make them were there.
The U.N. believed it and Bill Clinton believed it.
posted by MemyselfandI at 06:15 P.M. EST on Tue Mar 14, 2006 #
It's conservative alright - but it has good links. ABC is posting a story also.
IF this is proof that Hussein had WMD and hid them (if you look at a map - it's clear that if they did exist and are not in Iraq they ARE in Syria) do you think it'll be major breaking news? It should be after this huge huge controversy.
posted by katie82640 at 06:35 P.M. EST on Tue Mar 14, 2006 #
Some words about WMDs, from the people who brought us the Iraq war.
posted by historymike at 06:41 P.M. EST on Tue Mar 14, 2006 #
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998.
"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998.
"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998.
"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998
"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998.
"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998.
"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999.
"There is no doubt that . Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, Dec, 5, 2001.
"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
Sen. Carl Levin (d, MI), Sept. 19, 2002.
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.
"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seing and developing weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002.
"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002.
"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force — if necessary — to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002.
"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years . We also should remember we have alway s underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Jay Rockerfeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002,
"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do."
Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002.
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction. "[W]ithout question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. And now he has continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ...
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003.
posted by katie82640 at 06:44 P.M. EST on Tue Mar 14, 2006 #
I wonder if the Michael Moores of this world will eat crow or if they'll they'll shove their heads in the sand and scream that Bush is lying again.
Face it, one does not deny inspectors access to places if one does not have something to hide.
There are WMD's, they in a neighboring state. My analogy with GZ earlier about Iran harboring Iraq's fighters during desert storm is a case in point. Despite the hatred between Iraq and Iran, their hatred for America was great enough, at that moment to nullify their personal problems. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Hussein had WMD's, he hid them, and the "Blame America First" crowd believed him.
Pretty sad when they take the word of a psychopath like Hussein over that of their countrymen and other responsible agencies around the world.
posted by WhiteAfricanAmerican at 06:44 P.M. EST on Tue Mar 14, 2006 #
I just wanted to post and make sure everyone's on the same page about where the intel everyone's been pointing a finger at, actually came from.
This could be a healing point for our country - I really think that it could. If the name calling stops.
IF there are weapons of mass destruction, both administrations were right about it.
IF there were NOT WMD - then both administrations were wrong.
Sooooooooo why are we all fighting?
Just food for thought -
posted by katie82640 at 06:49 P.M. EST on Tue Mar 14, 2006 #
Oh lord, WAA... they're talking about the mid-90s.
Let's see now.
"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." -- G W Asshat
Okay, and that was January 2003. So something that happened in the period, what, 1994-1996 is "recent"?
At the very least, it's MISLEADING for Dubya to claim "recently", ASSUMING that this info is true.
Meanwhile, Saddam already had tons of "yellowcake" sitting around... under UN seal, during that time period. I'd be more worried if the evidence was there he was looking to enrich what he had, or if he was actually trying to buy highly enriched uranium.
Meanwhile, in Iran....
posted by anonymouscoward at 06:49 P.M. EST on Tue Mar 14, 2006 #
There are WMD's, they in a neighboring state.
YEAH, IRAN, IRAQ'S ARCH-ENEMY!
And Iran's leader there is blowing us the raspberry. "You're going to invade Iran to stop our nuclear program? YOU AND WHAT ARMY? HAHAHAH!"... cause you know it is true, we don't have the people for that. And if Israel gets involved, well, the oil won't matter because the area will be one giant glass crater.
posted by anonymouscoward at 06:54 P.M. EST on Tue Mar 14, 2006 #
Pretty sad when they take the word of a psychopath like Hussein over that of their countrymen and other responsible agencies around the world.
What responsible agencies would those be? The ones responsible for the YELLOWCAKE FORGERY? What, did you forget about our intelligence people believing forged documents that came from Italian intelligence that claiemd Saddam was trying to buy yellowcake from Niger?
Face it, WAA, this administration blew its credibility and continues to blow it thousands of times more than Bill Clinton's got blown.
Chimpy McFlightsuit was taped while being briefed about Katrina and the levees, and then said "nobody could have anticipated the breach of the levees". How the hell do you expect people to believe this guy?
posted by anonymouscoward at 07:05 P.M. EST on Tue Mar 14, 2006 #
I have always believed Saddam had WMD, somewhere hidden. The Bush haters will simply keep on screaming, whining, Bush bashing, and insist that either Bush 'made this up too', or 'Bush would have found any reason to go to war'. Bush haters cannot stand it when a truth is put out there, that goes against the mindsets that have driven them for so long. That would be like expecting Susan Sarandon to admit maybe, she was wrong about something political. Never gonna happen. I do not always agree with what Bush does; I think we've spent too much money in Iraq as it is, time to come home. But I recognise that there are much bigger, brighter, better trained minds than mine, who know far more about all this than I do. Guess that's why nobody pays me big bucks for MY opinion.
posted by starling02 at 07:08 P.M. EST on Tue Mar 14, 2006 #
AC - there was a link posted that starts the Bush administrations' comments about believing there were WMD in Iraq. That's where the citations came in. No waa - just the plain truth. If that strikes you as crying...well odd - why would it?
The link submitted above by HM starts shortly after the Clinton admin left the Whitehouse. As far as I can see it omitted the information that the Clinton admin developed that lead our government to believe, as late as (late) 1999 Iraq was a pressing issue b/c they weapons of mass destruction.
Thought it might be more balanced if the handoff and preceding chain of possession of this widely criticized intel were also presented.
Odd isn't it - when only some of the facts are submitted and only some of the facts are omitted how out of balance the truth actually becomes...
posted by katie82640 at 07:10 P.M. EST on Tue Mar 14, 2006 #
I want to see the association of 9-11 and Iraq. I could give a crap, as a taxpaying citizen and having a brother that is a Marine, about WMD's that were moved to Syria 10 years ago.
That is, of course, the "reason" the United States invaded, right? It's the only coattail George has clung onto these lo 3 years and 2000+ soldier sacrifies later.
You were moved by that stunt on the aircraft carrier, weren't ya? What was 9-11 about "Mission Accomplished"? OBL is still a free man and the insurgents shoved GW's comments back up his ass. Thanks for being a man, GW.
And do us all a favor, armchair quarterback this whole pathetic fiasco. It's easy to drop WMD associations after the fact, but the reason the "Allies" invaded was 9-11. Or was it WMD's that were never found? Bush has me all confused again.
To think the invasion of Iraq was anything other than avenging his father, I got some swampland to sell you.
posted by BrianInFlorida at 07:48 P.M. EST on Tue Mar 14, 2006 #
I missed something Brian - Bush Sr. is dead?!
posted by katie82640 at 07:53 P.M. EST on Tue Mar 14, 2006 #
but the reason the "Allies" invaded was 9-11. Or was it WMD's that were never found? Bush has me all confused again.
As I recall, it was the threat posed by a hook up between Saddam and any terror org wanting to hit the US on it's own soil.
WMD's in the wrong hands was another
Saddam's non compliance with UN resolutions, and his own agreement to end Desert Storm.
Keep in mind. He had em at Desert Storm, and never demonstrated to any one that he disposed of them. Thus, as far as any reasonable person is concerned, absent evidence to the contrary (which was Saddam's responsibility to furnish) Saddam still had em.
It would have been more embarassing for GW, had Saddam said, "come one down, see for yourself." But he didn't. Why didn't he? Why did he act like he had something to hide, if he had nothing to hide eH? Riddle me that Brian.
posted by WhiteAfricanAmerican at 08:06 P.M. EST on Tue Mar 14, 2006 #
During the years of the U.N. inspections Iraq did let the inspectors in but limited the areas that they were allowed to visit. There were (I think) 19 warnings issued.
They did not provide the requested documents from the settlement of the war until just weeks before the US invasion.
posted by katie82640 at 08:23 P.M. EST on Tue Mar 14, 2006 #
I agree with Katie the most so far. Who the hell cares about this stupid topic? What could come from looking at this topic, instead cover these fascinating topics.
Tell them to cover the possible censure and/or impeachent of Mr. President.
How is the Abramoff scandal going?
How about Ohio's governor, a criminal, who goes unscathed?
Mr. Noe, come watch my trial outside the courthouse, and his mishaps with "legal business".
Or our own, East says marina or arena, but no downtown says over here, can't see any devlopment, unless its a community shower at One Government Center?
posted by jdmsbyrd at 10:07 P.M. EST on Tue Mar 14, 2006 #
Fact: There are, to this day, between 3000 and 4000 pieces of chemical and bio ordinance (artillery shells and aerial bombs) unaccounted for. (Hussein claims to have destoyed these weapons, just didn't document it in any way. These people videotape everything, but forgot the camera on the day they destroyed 4000 chemical weapons?)
Fact: Every country on the planet large enough to have an intelligence agency, believed Hussein still had those weapons.
Fact: Vladmir Putin confirmed to Bush that Iraq was planning terrorist attacks on U.S. soil, bigger than 9/11. (notice 'confirmed' because we already knew this prewar)
Hussein + 3-4000 wmds + terror attacks on U.S.= bad
Left us with 4 options:
1 Go to the U.N. (fat lotta good that did us, especially with millions in oil for food dollars floating around)
2 Whoop some keester
3 HOPE we can stop any attacks before they happen
4 Get used to the occasional shopping mall getting fumigated of every living thing in it
I'll take 'Whoop some keester' for 'however much it takes', Alex
I believe the weapons were there and are now in Syria, or Lebanon, or just buried somewhere in the desert.
If I gave someone 15 cars, and told them to hide the cars anywhere they want in the entire state of California, and gave them 3 completely undisturbed years to do it (thanks again U.N.). How long would it take for me to find even one of those cars?
have fun
posted by Fon_Guy at 01:51 A.M. EST on Wed Mar 15, 2006 #
LOL Katie, nooooooooooo!
George Sr got a LOT of grief from allies AND Saddam about not going the full distance to Baghdad during Desert Storm. Seeing this issue isn't important to me, I'm not going to delve too much into research, but I do recall Saddam mocking George Sr by publically displaying 41's face, made of tile, at the entrance of Baghdad Hilton, I think.
Sr imposed sanctions, Saddam violated those sanctions WITH our ALLIES AND the UN and Jr just stuck up for dad.
posted by BrianInFlorida at 05:19 A.M. EST on Wed Mar 15, 2006 #
Ahh...you said avenging his father soooo...
One question. If it turns out that there are WMD, have been WMD and we've all been used by basically turning neighbor against neighbor for the last 3 years as play things for the mainstream media - how do you feel about that?
posted by katie82640 at 09:32 A.M. EST on Wed Mar 15, 2006 #
katie
I would feel shitty. But, that is partisan politics. That is what those people do. They move up the ladder and keep their job by how well they raise money, rally volunteers, keep a clear message, use the media. On both sides.
Until citizens demand something different, this is what we'll get, every four years. I doubt there are enough people who want to do anything about it. I do, but hey...
posted by jdmsbyrd at 11:25 A.M. EST on Wed Mar 15, 2006 #
Ok - well we can only control today - what we can do. I promise jdmsbyrd not to call you names. I promise not to denegrate you because you have a different viewpoint than my own.
Hey....it's a start :-)
posted by katie82640 at 01:53 P.M. EST on Wed Mar 15, 2006 #
The WMD thing is the usual war- and chicken-hawk distraction from the real issues of national sovereignty. I have never condemned Iraq for either having or wanting WMDs; it's just that the WMDs were not found that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Powell and the rest of the Neo-cons or dupes claimed existed.
I'll never condemn a Middle Eastern state for having WMDs, even Israel (NOTE: the only Middle Eastern state to actually have nuclear weapons -- not that the US or UN is pushing to disarm them from THOSE). After all, Iraq was disarmed, and look what happened to it. WMDs are arguably necessary items for any Middle Eastern state, considering that outrageous example.
I expect Iran to have WMDs, and I will tolerate their attempts to attain them. If they have any brains they can see that a Western coalition dominated by America is very intent on invading, occupying and realistically destroying their culture and laws. I expect a threatened culture to look to self-defense.
If the Neo-Cons like WAA had their way, Germany would still be a vassal state of the Allied powers from WWII, since there's never a release condition. (And seeing that the US maintains many thousands fo troops on their own bases in Germany still, this has an ironic core to it, eh?) Iraq could not morally remain under the thumb of America-dominated UN resolutions, and that becomes doubly so given how America refuses to censure Israel in the same fashion for the same offenses (largely, having WMDs, attacking other nations, and abusing Human rights).
It's clear that Iraq did a bad thing by invading Kuwait. That's indisputable, despite the Kuwaiti "slant drilling" accusations. The Arab states were not disciplined enough to police the whole matter themselves, and some coalition (again, dominated by America and Britain) invaded Kuwait, then Iraq. I can understand all that. BUT THEN ... Iraq was effectively put into a prison for the next decade. Clinton and his Democrats were more than willing to keep the Warm War upon Iraq going for all that time, just to keep things bubbling enough for the next Republican President to escalate to a Hot War.
(After Iraq's imprisonment, it was then taken out and beaten like a dog. I hear American militants like to imprison and torture people, so this is just not surprising anymore.)
There is no rationale for being so harsh on Iraq ... unless of course you want to steal her oil fields and convert her culture to Christianity and Corporate Capitalism.
The recent duty-refusal of an SAS soldier outlined this lack of rationale. The soldier said something like "Britain should not enact the foreign policy of the USA". He's right, and was very moral in refusing to continue being a British soldier in Iraq, helping the West keep the nation under slavery. Equally so, the USA has no right to enact Israel's foreign policy either, however under threat the Israelis are.
To summarize: Whether Hussein had WMDs or not is a distraction argument. There's no such thing as "WMDs in the wrong hands" when those hands are national governments with full sovereignty under international laws and natural determination besides. Whatever Iraq did or didn't do, did not morally deserve being invaded and occupied, its oil fields commandeered by Westerners, and to have its legal system transformed into a Corporate Capitalist one.
Iraq is the whipping boy of the Western Empires and that's all there is to it. Now Iran is up next to the whipping post. It's not just; rather, it's just an exercise in bullying, and is placing the entire world in very real danger of another world war. We are daring fundamentalists to nuke armored divisions at their borders, and we are daring them to ship a few tac nukes into the West via uninspected shipping containers. A nuclear explosion in the Port of New York would destroy the American economy ... DUH!
WAA, world wars are "bad things", FYI. You may want to risk it, but you've no right to place all of us in danger from your extreme militancy. Shoulder a rifle and attack Iran yourself, Mr Chickenhawk.
posted by GuestZero at 02:15 P.M. EST on Wed Mar 15, 2006 #
"WAA, world wars are "bad things", '
Amen, amen, amen. Let's just pray it doesn't come to that...now.
posted by katie82640 at 02:19 P.M. EST on Wed Mar 15, 2006 #
even Israel (NOTE: the only Middle Eastern state to actually have nuclear weapons
Did they admit that openly?
Wikipedia doesn't list them as an admitted nuclear state, only a suspected one.
If Israel tested the bomb, or admitted to having one, shit would hit the fan over there.
posted by anonymouscoward at 03:52 P.M. EST on Wed Mar 15, 2006 #
Israel's attempts are legendary at keeping secret their nuclear capabilities. However, no serious expert or reporter doubts this anymore. Israel is still abusing one of the whistleblowers in this matter, Mordechai Vanunu.
Recently we were treated to another news story shedding more light on this intentionally murky picture. Israel undoubtedly obtained its nuclear material from the West.
The Arab states know full well that Israel has "the bomb". Still, using the bomb is problematical for any state ... even the screamingly and salivatingly fundamentalist ones that WAA thinks or fears Iran is.
Speaking of dangerous fundamentalists, here's a quote from the mentioned article:
"While Israel has not publicly conducted a nuclear test and does not admit or deny having nuclear weapons, it has not signed the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty. This means the International Atomic Energy Agency does not have the power to inspect Israeli nuclear facilities."
Well! It looks like the famous Western Double-Standard System is still chugging along. After all, America invaded Iraq since mean old Hussein allegedly didn't let them inspect for weapons programs, but Israel can thumb its collective nose about the entire thing and there's nary a peep about it. To be even clearer: Jews are allowed to develop nuclear weapons in a highly unstable region, but Muslims aren't. This "message of ours" to the Middle East is particularly clear.
posted by GuestZero at 06:11 A.M. EST on Thu Mar 16, 2006 #
I guess for Girlie-Men (Assuming Zero is infact a man, if so it might explain the complete lack of understanding with respect to the history of the world) like Zero over there, it's preferable to play the ugly prom date in the back seat of Militant Islam's car.
What the left wing limp-wrists fail to understand, is that the only place in the world where idiots like these limpwrists are taken seriously, is the west. Anywhere else, their fate might be as lucky as being exported to as unlucky as being shot in the head with an AK (as the female who was caught teaching girls in the Taliban's A'stan).
These idiots have this utopian concept of what the world 'ought to be', and in some small way I guess it would be a better place. But what Zero and his ilk fail to grasp is that there are powers out there that do not give a rat's ass about shiney happy people holding hands, in fact when they encounter these shiney happy people holding hands, the powers I speak of invariably, make these limp wrists, grab their ankles, and they get raped.
In my humble opinion, Zero has no right to talk about war, seeing has how nZero has never picked up a rifle in defence of liberty. Zer doesn't know what it's like to watch a friend die in one's lap, or witness a medic running to save a fallen soldier, only to be killed himself.
Zero has no tolerance for this ugly side of life, DESPITE the fact that this ugly side of life is what allows him to make his dumbassed clinical remarks with respect to war.
Here's a reality check folks.
1) There are people out there that VIOLENTLY want to end your life.
2) These violent people hope and pray that the limpwrist way of life become dominate, simply because it means little or no resistance to them.
3) These Violent people understand only one language: VIOLENCE! Anyone that thinks, like Zero, that peace and negotiations will yield results is living in a fools paradise. What this negotiation b/s will do is serve to prolong the inevitable, typically only long enough to get all their ducks in a row before acting.
What kills me, is that the 'protests', left wing crackheads like Zero engage in, serve only to embolden the enemy.
It's a fact that the manner to defeat the USA in a war, is to sway public opinion against the action. This doctrine has been taught to every country's military.
One would have thought the USA would have learned from Vietnam. Too bad really.
When the leader of the Taliban, on national TV tells the entire world that "American's cannot endure a protracted engagement", you'd think people would pay attention.
When AQ's #2 tells their boy in Iraq exactly the same thing, and all that he has to do is hold out, you'd think people would re-evaluate their positions, and steele their resolve.
I'd put money on the fact that if the public of the US had thrown 100% of themselves behind the Presidents position as soon as it became evident that an insurgency was occuring, this conflict would have been over with.
However, true to the definition of insanity (doing the same thing, the same way expecting different results) the left wing crackheads have guaranteed that more troops will die, just as Hanoi Jane single handedly did, as well as every pot smoking limp wrist bastard did in the 60's.
BTW, when was the last time Israel's foreign policy included the eradication of a sovereign state?
When was the last time Israel teamed up with 4 or 5 other countries and attempted to sextuple team a single country on the most holy holiday?
When was the last time Israel constantly attacks the civilian population of this state that they had sworn to eradicate from the face of the earth?
As soon as Zero shows me where Israel has engaged in activities like this, I will throw my entire support behind demanding Israel dismantel their alleged nukes.
But, given the restraint Israel has exercised over the past decades, I'd say that Israel would only use their nuke, or bring it out from the shadows if they themselves are threatened by some one like say Saddam's Iraq or Iran with assured destruction.
But none of that is taken into concern. Nope, Israel is evil because it's supported by the West. I mean, according to Zero it is preferable that Israeli's be exterminated, that way peace would come to the middle east. Ha!
Saddam had WMD's, he hid them. He had freakin 12 years to do so. Shit, US forces dug up freaking fighter planes out of the desert, what the hell do you think he did with his program.
Saddam was a threat, with demonstrated links to terrorist orgs. But I suppose it's better that a nuke detonate in downtown NYC, before Zero and is patsies feel the need to do anything. Hell, they'd probably justify the attack, and dramatically change their lifestyle to accomodate the enemy.
"I'm sorry, what was that Mr. Terrorist? Oh, you don't like the way we dress? Tell you what, how about we make it law that all the women have to be covered from head to toe? Oh, you don't like the kind of government we have? tell you what we'll change it. If we do these will you leave us alone?"
Freakin pathetic.
This is going to sound like a "chicken hawk" but tough shit, either you do what's necessary to keep the liberties you have, or you become the ugly prom date in the back of the enemy's car.
It's your choice.
Oh, and Zero, until you take up a weapon to serve your country, do not lecture me about sacrificing for mine. Been there, done that, got the scars (physically and emotionally) to prove it.
posted by WhiteAfricanAmerican at 05:10 P.M. EST on Thu Mar 16, 2006 #
I will lecture you as I please. To wit:
Considering my 7 years military service and long years of gun ownership, your head is obviously buried firmly in your own ass. You cannot accept that an armed and educated man with a military background is unable to frag Muslims whenever he sees them. You are a pathetic piece of shit-trash who should die in the blood that you are so eager to spill.
I will not be railroaded into militarizing American society to service your fears. We are NOT in an actual ("declared") war since the Congress is all its cowardice refused to declare one. Even if we were in an actual declared war, I still have rights, which I will defend by the strength of my right arm.
I will not countenance the attacking of the Middle East to service Israel's foreign policy. Israel is a sovereign nation and is NOT the 51st state of the USA. They've defended themselves on their own rather successfully, and must deal with their enemies (neighbors!) on their own. Their abuses of civil rights are their choice and are a major source of Arab anger these days.
Anyway, America has a long history now of attacking the world, and the rest of the world is just fucking TIRED of it. So am I. You may dismiss that, but at 5% of the world's population, the continuance of this Imperial activity is going to lead to retribution that will make 911 look like poor urban planning.
The world cannot be made into a Christian Capitalist Corporation. Your agenda to push such a structure is too obvious. You are outnumbered and outgunned. If you continue this outrage of unilateral and now pre-emptive attacks upon other nations, you're just going to go down fighting like any perp does in Toledo when he waves a gun at people.
Doubt my manhood all you will, but when push comes to shove here in America, I'll just bet that I'm a better shot with my .308 than you are with yours. Not to dismiss what's happening in Iraq, but the real war is going on here, in America, as the sensible folk are fighting a war of words with the highly militant assholes who accept all risks (world war, tac-nuke retaliations, etc.) in order to achieve their goals of making the Middle East into Christian Capitalist Corporate states.
In short, you're the American Taliban, and an anathema to free men everywhere. {spit}
posted by GuestZero at 02:29 A.M. EST on Fri Mar 17, 2006 #
OOOOOOOOOooooooo I've found a nerve.
My money says that 'if' you've served, it was probably in some REMF position and that now qualifies you as having experience.
Allow me to enlighten you a little Zero.
Had South Africa a dictator who had a rap list like Hussein, I'd have been behind the EXACT same action as op IF, DESPITE, the fact that my family resides in South Africa.
See Zero, I've lived in a 3rd world country, I've lived under a dictator. Friends of my father have been murdered by that animal. So I'm a little more familiar with the tribulations that folks like the Iraqi's face.
You on the other hand have no fucking clue.
My position Zero, is one of survival, yours is one of capitulation. That's the difference.
As for Israel, that country fights for it's survival. The Yom Kippur war is a case in point. While Israel was getting the shit kicked out of it by it's neighbors, no one did a thing. Didn't raise a finger to stop it. It wasn't until the tide turned & Egypt's tank divisions were about to be annihilated, that "the world" thought about doing something.
So you're a better shot than I am eh? It's hysterical that it's necessary for you to tell me that. Seems to me you doubt your own manhood and find it necessary to validate yourself.
BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAH
So if I'm the American Taliban eh?
Damn your ignorant.
posted by WhiteAfricanAmerican at 06:05 A.M. EST on Fri Mar 17, 2006 #
America has a long history now of attacking the world,
Welcome to the "Blame America First" crowd.
There are thousands who were On the Lusitania, who were at Pearl Harbor, who were in the Marine barracks in Lebanon, who were aboard the USS Cole, who were in the World Trade Center who would disagree with that statement.
While I think dissent against any war is a good and necessary thing, I think you're just a piss-poor American for that stupid statement alone.
posted by MemyselfandI at 07:52 A.M. EST on Fri Mar 17, 2006 #
I know that talking to real soldiers who are still in Iraq and many who have come home what the actual situation they found IS.
1. For many years there Hussein kept a 'secret police' service. The SS. Sound familiar? Any dissenter was picked up, tortured OR tortured and killed. His two sons were known to drive around and pick up random folk - and do this like we'd go to the movies.
2. In almost all area now the work is complete on sanitary water supplies and sewage systems. The schools have been built and children are going to school.
3. Many of the doctors in the hospitals are women who were not allowed to practice until the US came in.
The people still live in fear of the Secret Service and their allies who sneak across the borders and make bombs. They bomb the CIVILIANS. The civilians love the US being there. Not the terrorists - which is all you're really being shown on CNN. Take a sec and look at the pictures again sometime. You'll see a sobbing man or woman around the wreck of a car or a bus or a SCHOOL. They need us. They needed ANYBODY and we stepped up. How'd you like it if those lunatics were YOUR local police force? That'd be ok? For you to get blown up at a grocery store when you are guilty of nothing? Hey - this has only been happening to these people for a couple of decades now.
No, they didn't need any help. Not at all. How about the toddler a Marine picked up? She was like a stray dog he said. For days she's skit away whenever he tried to approach her. Finally she took some food from him. He tried to ask her where her family was. This kid is 3. When she pointed at the ground and the Marines dug they found an unmarked mass grave. The bodies were a couple of years old, maybe two. That kid was on her own at 1. One year old. Now we find out that these people did have WMD and ANYbody could argue that people that bomb their own civilians, make orphans out of babies will play nice with WMD?
C'mon. It's easy to make wide and sweeping statements and fight. But there is a civilian population over there. Think about them. We have not taken one drop of oil from the region without paying market price. The new doc's do confirm the WMD. Why can't anybody get past fighting and name calling?
posted by katie82640 at 09:04 A.M. EST on Fri Mar 17, 2006 #
For many years there Hussein kept a 'secret police' service. The SS. Sound familiar?
Yes, because Bush has the same thing going on. It's called "extraordinary rendition". It's called "illegally wiretapping Americans". It's called "having Homeland Security visit you for paying off a credit card debt".
How'd you like it if those lunatics were YOUR local police force?
They already are. All that needs to be done is to invoke the magic word "terrorism". Mind you, they don't come around and burn your house down and blow up your car, in part because they know they can't get away with that yet, and because we have enough of an armed populace to fight back if it did happen. But what is happening is that the government, particularly the Executive, is claiming that they're at "war" and this gives them the almighty power to tap your communications, search your home and person in violation of the Fourth Amendment, and hold trials in secret and not just *seal* the decision but *CLASSIFY* it as Top Secret, in violation of the Sixth Amendment.
I'm looking you right in the virtual eye, katie, MMI, WAA, and the rest of you who back Bush and his little war in Iraq, and I'm accusing you of not giving a damn about the Constiitution, the document on which this country is founded, and this nation by extension. You sold out to Bush, you sold out to his distraction in Iraq, you put American tax dollars that by rights ought to go right back to American taxpayers and American schoolchildren and American needy into the hands of Halliburton and Arab moguls. You sold this country out because you chose to believe the lies of the Great Leader, because you bought into the lines he and his other followers spouted the lines about how questioning them is unpatriotic, how not following and supporting them is unpatriotic, and because you're all COWARDS who are SO AFRAID of the big bad terrorist boogeyman that you signed over your liberty for security.
Billions of dollars have been blown in Iraq. Our troops are bogged down. We have record deficits, the national debt has gone up by THREE TRILLION DOLLARS since Bush took office, we're paying $2.70 a gallon for gas while the oil companies are making RECORD PROFITS *AND* GETTING TAX CUTS. When you bought into Iraq, you SOLD OUT AMERICA. You sold out your children, who are now paying a nice high fixed interest on federal student loans, whose grants have been cut to pay for Iraq. You sold out your parents, who can't afford to heat their homes or even drive to the local Wal-Mart to work for $5.15 an hour as a greeter.
You dare to promote how great we're making things in Iraq? Get your goddamn asses down to the Gulf Coast and talk to Katrina survivors and ask them where the HELL the government was for them. You want to talk about schools and hospitals in Iraq? Excuse me, but don't we have some schools to build HERE IN AMERICA? Why are WE paying for socialized health care in Iraq? I don't have health insurance. If there's a terror attack here in the US and it causes me to lose an arm and a leg, I'm going to end up paying a hundred thousand dollars in medical bills... which will cost my my remaining arm and leg to pay off.
And here's some information for you folks who think Iraq was a really nasty place under Saddam. You need to check out the situation in Darfur and other parts of Africa. Rape, genocide, famine, every day. Instead of doing anything about that, you had to go pick a fight with Saddam. $300 billion later, the country is about in civil war, our troops are tied up, and Iran is now building The Bomb... which is only to be expected since we "own" nations on either side of them. One of the stories I've encountered was that Osama bin Laden's attacks against the USA stem from the Saudis inviting us to put bases in for the first war in Iraq, and that they wanted us to stay around over there while Osama wanted us gone -- that it was shameful for Saudi Arabia to be dependent on the USA for defense when Osama had ten thousand Arab troops ready to defend. When the Saudis told him they wanted us to stay, he got pissed off and started his bombings in order to try to get us out of there. If any of you ever bother to review your history, we backed Iraq in the Iran-Iraq war... except for how we also backed Iran as part of Iran-Contra. If I was a government, I'd be pretty wary of the USA playing each side off the other in a war. Face it, we are not very welcome over there. If we want to make the Middle East happy, we should get the hell out of there. We could have been in Africa and putting a stop to the problems there.
Take a guess at what the poverty rate is in Toledo. You don't know because you are the ones who hate America. You obviously hate your neighbors, because you gave the money to Halliburton.
posted by anonymouscoward at 11:38 A.M. EST on Fri Mar 17, 2006 #
MemyselfandI said: ' Welcome to the "Blame America First" crowd. '
No, this is the "Recognize America's Faults" crowd. But Imperialists cannot tolerate any criticism or even clearly-stated recognition of their violent culture.
MemyselfandI said: "There are thousands who were On the Lusitania, who were at Pearl Harbor, who were in the Marine barracks in Lebanon, who were aboard the USS Cole, who were in the World Trade Center who would disagree with that statement."
American victims of foreigner violence do not have a monopoly on the course of American foreign policy. Furthermore, American victims still do not give America the right to attack nations who had nothing to do with said victimization. Iraq had nothing to do with 911, hence there's no rational correlation between the WTC and the Iraq War -- despite immense Republican screeching to the contrary.
You're just being an advocate of brainless vengeance. Brainful vengeance instead would have sent 140K American troops into AFGHANISTAN instead of Iraq, since Afghanistan essentially admitted they harbored OBL and had no intention of giving him up for justice.
For Pearl Harbor, America didn't then go and attack, say, China. It attacked Japan -- the nation clearly responsible. And not only that, America actually DECLARED WAR, too, in accordance to the stipulations in the US Constitution. All these rightful responses are missing from the current Iraq equation.
MemyselfandI said: "While I think dissent against any war is a good and necessary thing, I think you're just a piss-poor American for that stupid statement alone."
You can think and say what you like. I remain an equal citizen to you. You obviously do not respect dissent, from this statement of yours and many others on the topic of America's violence against the world.
MMI, I now have an honest question: Do you EVER have a thought in your head about American foreign policy that WASN'T put there by Rush Limbaugh and the rest of the Republican Echo Chamber?
katie82640 said: "C'mon. It's easy to make wide and sweeping statements and fight. But there is a civilian population over there. Think about them."
... which is sheer irony, considering tens of thousands of Iraqis are dead from the American invasion and occupation. Next are we going to hear from you the cliche of an omelet and a few eggs?
Saddam Hussein was his OWN population's problem. The rightful overthrow of his dictatorship was for Iraqi citizens to employ. You don't "free" nations by invading them (case in point, thousands of Amerian troops which still occupy bases in Germany).
People in America like to pretend that honoring national sovereignty is somehow acting in support of dictators like Hussein. They can pretend this all they like. Logically, it's just false.
American troops continue to assault the Iraqi population. They not only attack them with military weapons, but Abu Ghraib proves that they are torturing them too. No moral man or woman should stand for this. The justifications for even starting this warfare were largely lies, and the facts having emerged to knock them down one by one, the obviously-militarist leaders in America continue to assault Iraq. WMDs? They just weren't found, even if you agree that Iraq should have been disarmed. 911? There's no link between Iraq and 911. Hussein? Well, he's been out of power for some time now, and American troops continue to occupy the country.
How much MORE blatant contradiction is the American public prepared to swallow?
When is REAL vengenace going to operate, here? To wit: When is Bush finally going to put all those thousands of troops towards finding Osama bin Laden? Anyone here remember OBL? Anyone?!?! {echoing sound}
posted by GuestZero at 12:27 P.M. EST on Fri Mar 17, 2006 #
I'm sorry GZ, but I have to admit these comments are hilarious. Girlie-man? That is classic. I enjoy reading a variety of viewpoints, but some of this shit was beyond words. Why bother responding?
posted by nick44 at 12:30 P.M. EST on Fri Mar 17, 2006 #
GZ makes some sweeping statements and very astounding observations. I'm looking you in the virtual eye - who told you I'm an advocate of war? I'd like a name please - or an apology.
You are grossly misinformed. You hold ME accountable for the war? Sorry - never been a President of a member of Congress. Never saw any of this coming - never signed on for this. But for all you'd like to make inaccurate statements and change a conversation when you don't like the way it's going - in the case you can't.
War is horrible. But out of war can come growth. Out of war can come independence. You live in a country with civil rights and as you sit in your enjoyment of freedom of speech - bought by a war and the blood of countless of thousands - you spew hate for that very process.
You have the right to express your opinion. But you confuse your right to speak it with an obligation of others to give you an audience. I've read enough of your comments to know that there's nothing kind or loving in you - if you post your true feelings. You would go into mourning if the warring political factions ever came into understanding and worked together. Your ilk thrive on controversy and name calling. You receive benefit at the suffering of those around you. You are a divisive force and that is a bad, bad thing.
Guess what? You'll not like this because you seek control over others (especially through humiliating as witnessed by your blatant inability to have a rational or civilized discourse) - I don't have to listen to you. Even though you think I do - I don't, I'm deaf to you (and your secret society). I'm going to do what I can when I can because that's all I have. And if I listened to people like you I'd think I had no power. In the words of a wise man -Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common?
posted by katie82640 at 03:00 P.M. EST on Fri Mar 17, 2006 #
AC "Get your goddamn asses down to the Gulf Coast and talk to Katrina survivors and ask them where the HELL the government was for them"
I don't know what the hell is wrong with FEMA but again - I don't have any control over them, today.- I'm just one little woman living in Ohio raising a big family on my own :-) Going to do what I can with what I have today.
I wanted/want to go to the gulf. Couldn't afford to do it - we arranged for trailers (mostly bigger campers) and clothing etc. The churches sent aid and are still doing it. We have a food drive now - have sent about 55 tons I think out of our local church networks.
posted by katie82640 at 03:48 P.M. EST on Fri Mar 17, 2006 #
Dear GZ and AC,
You two must have hoped I'd become bored with ToledoTalk. Not true. Since I'm not a Toledo native, I've been learning a fair bit over the past couple of months about Toledo politics. Kudos to JR for a temporary restraining order on national topics.
Since both of you have pulled old, flawed rhetoric out of the closet, I invite you to pick up where you left off with those respective topics. Or perhaps I should say, where you ran off.
***********************************************
Coward,
Viable WMD threat
Your inability to read
FISA wiretaps
More FISA wiretap talk
We can talk about Hurricane Katrina anytime you like.
***********************************************
Zero,
How's your internet connection now?
***********************************************
So, which one of you two geniuses is related to Jay Bennish?
HUGS! :)
posted by AirTrainer at 09:02 P.M. EST on Fri Mar 17, 2006 #
Guest Zero,
I apologize for calling you a piss-poor American.
I stand by the rest of my post.
BTW, I despise Rush Limbaugh.
posted by MemyselfandI at 09:32 P.M. EST on Fri Mar 17, 2006 #
Ah, so AirTroller admits to being a troll. Since you're not from this area, please practice safe sex: go f*ck yourself.
posted by anonymouscoward at 09:41 P.M. EST on Fri Mar 17, 2006 #
Your sabbatical was not nearly long enough, coward.
Did you really think I'd let you disgrace this nation with your poorly formed and unsubstantiated words?
How's your virtual eye now? It looks a bit black to me.
Don't make me bring back BugsBunnyMode.
posted by AirTrainer at 10:01 P.M. EST on Fri Mar 17, 2006 #
This thread was started with a link to the Washington Times Saddam's WMD activities. In that article, it is stated that there are roughly 500 more hours of tapes to be translated and reviewed, and 48,000 boxes of Iraqi documents.
I'm pretty sure there is a crow dinner waiting within for AC and GZ.
From the Times' article:
Of the tapes released so far, Mr. Hoekstra said, "Everything [Saddam] is doing is saying, 'Let's take it and hide it' with a clear intent. 'As soon as this is over, we're going to be back after this.'
posted by AirTrainer at 10:15 P.M. EST on Fri Mar 17, 2006 #
Saddam Hussein was his OWN population's problem.
Tell it to the people in the mass graves. Tell it to the people lacking hands, or arms, or feet, as a result of Hussein's version of justice.
Tell it to the women raped by Uday and Qusay Hussein.
***********************************************
... You don't "free" nations by invading them (case in point, thousands of Amerian troops which still occupy bases in Germany).
Nitwit! Have you heard of NATO? Those troops are on German soil with the consent of that nation. You will be gladdened to know that our military commitment to that region is being withdrawn at this time.
posted by AirTrainer at 10:29 P.M. EST on Fri Mar 17, 2006 #
...considering tens of thousands of Iraqis are dead from the American invasion and occupation.
Would you have those reading your tripe believe that none of those Iraqis were pointing a weapon in the direction of American forces?
Further, considering the multi-national forces present in Iraq, what makes you think that all of the Iraqi dead were killed by Americans? Did the British, Italian, Korean, or Polish forces arrive in-country armed with spitwads?
Maybe those cartoons were our fault, too, right?
posted by AirTrainer at 10:40 P.M. EST on Fri Mar 17, 2006 #
Hey, I hear something...
It's coming from the right...
It's the call of the nutjob... from FreeRepublic... they want you back, AirTroller... they miss you... and they say it's your turn to give Bush and Cheney blowjobs.
Speaking of sabbaticals, it took you long enough to get back here... because, you see, we know you're a troll, or quite possibly MMI's alter-ego.
Your boy George is at 34% approval and the majority of Americans actually approve of censuring him. Aw ding!
Speaking of WMDs, if we knew Saddam was hiding them, then why didn't we go invade wherever he hid them? OH SNAP! Bitch ain't got a response. Come on, bitch, tell me where Saddam hid the WMDs. Why didn't Bush trumpet that as well? Man, Saddam must be a fucking GENIUS to hide the WMDs where we wouldn't find them. If a little dick-tater like him can HIDE WMDS FROM THE GREAT AMERICAN INTELLIGENCE APPARATUS, then tell me what good spying on Americans is? NO WONDER WHY WE CAN'T FIND OSAMA OR HIS CHIEFS! Bush couldn't find Waldo if someone drew an arrow to him with finger paint, let alone his own ass without Karl Rove's assistance.
By the way, fucko, the bill for making Halliburton and Big Oil richer, killing 33,000+ Iraqis and 2200+ American troops, while providing social services to Iraqis at the expense of doing so for Americans is going to hit ONE TRILLION DOLLARS. Here's some advice: if you support the war so much, take out a second mortgage on your home, sell all your country music CDs, your guns, go down to the bank and withdraw any money you may have, and send it to Bush to pay for the fucking war yourself, because a fucking lot of us are tired of giving fiscal blowjobs to DICK Cheney & Co. And after you get done mailing that big fat check to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave, go sign up at the nearest Army Recruiter and fight the war you support. Set an example for the 101st Fighting Keyboardists over at Powerline and Freep.
Oh wait, your little bitch ass won't go do any of those things, because you're a pussy-ass troll.
I see you've also still got a hard-on about Sealed Case... but you don't know what the fuck dicta is... hint: it's not a former Bears head coach. Mind you, you've also ignored BushCo's changing justifications on domestic spying as well.
Out of six topics you posted, ONE has involved Toledo.
I can't find ONE comment of yours that pertains to Toledo in looking back to the start of the year. That tells me you are nothing more than a wandering troll who just wants to weigh in on national issues. For all the faults of limedrops911, at least limedrops could talk about this area. You can't.
See, I got a few things going for me that you don't. One, I've been here longer than you. Two, I actually live in the area. Three, I actually give a damn about the area and the state (in multiple senses of "state") it is in. Four, at least several members of this forum, whether or not they disagree with me, respect me and, as a bonus, find me humorous. Finally, while I may have my moments of being an arrogant, foul-mouthed asshole, I'm not an incessant troll like you.
I don't wanna talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper! I fart in your general direction! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!
posted by anonymouscoward at 11:06 P.M. EST on Fri Mar 17, 2006 #
Aw ding?
Oh snap?
What, did you drop your dungeons&dragons alter-ego in favor of going hip-hop? Your I.G.U.N. buddies down in Bowling Green are going to feel so disappointed.
*************************************************
As always, you just can't bring yourself to do any, and I mean ANY, background reading. For all of those who think I've been gone afield, just click on my screen name. It will bring you to a screen that shows all of my comments over time to ToledoTalk.
coward, you're an idiot. Remember your reference to Neal Stephenson's Cryptonomicon? Yeah, I bagged it 59 minutes after your post. It only took me that long because I didn't see it until 50 minutes had already elapsed.
***********************************************
I live here...I am a native of northern Ohio...I have served in our nation's military far in excess of the typical military contract.
You tried that NEWB bullshit before. Do you really want that to blow up in your face?
***********************************************
Finally, I'm going to give you eight years to hide 20 F-150s in an area bigger than New Mexico. If I can't find them in the first three years of searching, are you a good hider, or am I a bad finder? Is it writ that I am never going to find those trucks?
***********************************************
You have ABSOLUTELY NO BASIS for connecting oil profits to the war in Iraq.
Bluster on, coward.
Before you reach for your keyboard, be prepared to present ACTUAL LINKS to REAL-WORLD DOCUMENTS.
posted by AirTrainer at 11:48 P.M. EST on Fri Mar 17, 2006 #
Before you reach for your keyboard, be prepared to present ACTUAL LINKS to REAL-WORLD DOCUMENTS.
I've already done that. The authenticity of yours is in question. See also the Niger yellowcake forgery. I mean, they were SO GOOD they fooled "British Intelligence" and George Dubya Bush, else it wouldn't have made the State of the Union address, eh?
posted by anonymouscoward at 12:17 A.M. EST on Sat Mar 18, 2006 #
AC wrote: I've already done that.
You must think that scrolling up and down through a thread is really difficult.
By 'actual links' I was speaking of ACTUAL HYPERTEXT LINKS that would allow the user to view documents at a third-party's website. You should probably avoid Barbara Streisand's or Michael Moore's servers.
Where in this thread, or in another ToledoTalk thread, have you provided supporting links to your assertion that current oil company profits are linked to the war in Iraq?
posted by AirTrainer at 12:41 A.M. EST on Sat Mar 18, 2006 #
AC - my grandmother told me that vulgar language was a weak mind struggling to express itself. It doesn't seem to me that you have a weak mind in any way - why the language that prohibits dialogue on an honest level?
Methinks you are angry and possibly holding people responsible who are not responsible for the object of your anger.
In turn - instead of realizing that the parties are in all actuality helpless - you decide the won't fix the source of your anger rather than can't.
Just a thought - surely there is plenty to be angry about in the world today.
I just can't help reading some of your posts and thinking - geesh - hey those two were saying the same thing. But now they've lost that b/c they're mf'ing each other so all reason is lost.
posted by katie82640 at 01:37 P.M. EST on Sat Mar 18, 2006 #
Saddam Tapes & Documents
For those of you interested in this topic (tapes)..... please visit
IntelligenceSummit.org for translations.
For those of you interested in the release of the documents, here is information about the release:
http://news.com.com/2102-1028_3-6054640.html?tag=st.util.print
A new acquaintance of mine, Mr. Joseph Shahada (jervitas) is in the process of translating some of the newly released documents. It is a slow process and only a handful of translations have been completed and more than 48,000 boxes full of documents have been recovered. Here is a write up from the Boston Journal with info on Shahada:
http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2006/03/18/us_puts_iraqi_documents_on_the_web/
yes, Mr. Shahada is a conservative contributor to Free Republic and has donated his time and expertise. He has been contacted by the media and his translations are being used from time to time when the MSM bothers to report on these documents. For those who have issues with a 'conservative' doing the translating, I welcome a link to a translation by a liberal. To my knowledge, none exists.
Here is a link to his translations:
http://iraqdocs.blogspot.com/
Titles of translated documents to date include:
Saddam Regime Training and Using Foreign Arab Terrorists as Suicide Bombers
Afghani Taoliban Cousul Spoke of a Relationship between Iraq and bin Laden, 2001
Zarqawi in Iraq Long Before the War Started
Saddam Ordered the Use of Chemicl Weapons in Northern Iraq
Iraqi Intelligence met with Bin Laden in 1995
Saddam Ordered $25,000 for Each Suicide Terrorist Against Israel in March 2002
Chemical Gears for The Chemical Group, February 2003
Chemical Platoon Still Exists and Active in 2001
Saddam Gives CNN the Priority for Coverage, 2001
The French and German Connections in January 2003
Iraqi Intelligence Asks hamas to Conduct Terrorist Attacks Against the U.S., 2003
How to Use Coalition Dead Troops and POW's as Propoganda Tool, 2003
Saddam Meeting with His Nuclear Group in 2002
Saddam Regime Recruits Suicide Terrorists to Hit US Interests, 2001
Orders to Remove All Information Related to WMD from Computers, 1997
Chemical Platoons Applied Training In Chemical Lab to Detect Nerve Agents, VX Agents......., 1999
Secret Research rograms Related to WMD, 1998
Destruction and Hiding of WMD Documents and Archives, 2002
Russian Company Sells Mig 29 Parts to Iraq, 2002
Here are links to the official government sites who have posted the original arabic documents.
http://www.ctc.usma.edu/harmony_docs.asp
http://fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/products-docex.htm
posted by Mraz at 01:55 P.M. EST on Sat Apr 15, 2006 #
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