"Can't the government and private businesses work hand in hand? For instance, if the 7.5 million marina district project gets people out spending money while creating jobs, wouldn't that attract private businesses to the area? "
You'd think so, wouldnt ya? Thats why we voted to go ahead with it on that terrible day 9-11-2001...
I'd thought that's why the local population voted for a mayor who "gets results"...
So far - no Marina district, no Southwyck, no movement on the steam plant...
We did lose a chief of police the cops seemed to like tho
posted by billy at 12:22 P.M. EST on Thu Jun 29, 2006 #
Website: Americans for Propserity
From Sourcewatch:
"Americans For Prosperity Foundation (AFP) is a section 501(c)(3) organization "committed to educating citizens about economic policy and a return of the federal government to its Constitutional limits." "
"AFP was established in 2003 with money from the Charles G. Koch Charitable Foundation as a successor to Citizens for a Sound Economy Foundation, following an internal rift at the organization."
"AFP is affiliated with the Independent Women's Forum. Both organizations share the same Washington address, and they also share most of the same operational staff."
About IWF:
"The Independent Women's Forum (IWF) is an anti-feminist organization funded by Richard Mellon Scaife, Koch Industries, and other right-wing ideologues. Materials on IWF's site claim, for example, that "the battered women's movement has outlived its useful beginnings." "
"In October 2003, the IWF announced an affiliation with Citizens for a Sound Economy, now the Americans For Prosperity Foundation, which whom it shares premeses and staff."
"While claiming to challenge "radical feminists," IWF primarily targets mainstream feminists and feminist organizations, as exemplified by such figures as Hillary Rodham Clinton and such groups as the American Association of University Women."
"IWF is a secular counterpart to Religious Right women's groups like Eagle Forum and Concerned Women for America, but these groups often work together. People for the American Way describe IWF as a group that "opposes affirmative action, gender equity programs like Title IX, and the Violence Against Women Act." "
"IWF members include academic women who are paid to write papers that denigrate the idea of equity for girls and women in education. One of these papers, by Judith Kleinfeld, a professor of psychology at the University of Alaska at Fairbanks, has questioned an MIT study on discrimination against women in MIT's science department, calling their findings "junk science." "
"IWF's constantly-updated web site shows an ever expanding sphere of concerns, all viewed from right-wing perspectives."
Probably a good guess that the left-wing is not a fan of Americans for Propserity.
posted by jr at 01:58 P.M. EST on Thu Jun 29, 2006 #
Probably a good guess that the left-wing is not a fan of Americans for Propserity.
Probably right about that jr. But does that mean the right-wing types here are not in favor of these projects? That they are a waste of taxpayers money?
posted by pink_slip at 03:35 P.M. EST on Thu Jun 29, 2006 #
Beats me. The way I see it, I don't think any watchdog group has to worry about the marina district project or a new sports arena because those projects have been stuck in the planning stages for years, so they aren't wasting that much taxpayer money.
What about the taxpayer money that has funded and is still funding the Erie Street Market? I'd say that's a big waste of money based upon the ESM's "success." Selling the market bay to a private developer would have been the smart thing to do. Why in the hell is the government involved in developing grocery and craft stores?
posted by jr at 03:49 P.M. EST on Thu Jun 29, 2006 #
Since Czarty fired Pizzuti back in April, the Marina District is currently without a real developer. I guess a local Kiwanis club is now in charge of developing the Marina District or something like that.
Anyway, what I've always wondered is this. 125 acres of ready-to-build waterfront property exists in downtown Toledo, opposite and slightly downstream of the city's skyline. Why aren't developers and investors from around the country and even outside the U.S. lining up to sell city officials on their ideas for developing that land?
Toledo shouldn't have to look for a developer. It seems to me, that if developing that land was worthwhile, Toledo could sit back and have its pick of developers. Investors would be begging Toledo for the chance. Everything would be paid for by the developer's investors except for maybe some basic infrastructure costs.
Isn't the lack of interest in the Marina District by developers from around the country telling? Is it because of our weather, our energy costs, our high taxes, our high labor costs, or our political environment? Is Toledo on some kind of "Do Not Develop" national registry?
I wonder something else. Of all the cities in the U.S. with a population over 100,000, does Toledo have the biggest parcel of undeveloped, unused downtown waterfront property that also seems to have the least amount of interest from developers? How does Toledo's available waterfront property compare with these other cities?
Mobile, Alabama (198,915)
Little Rock, Arkansas (183,133)
Peoria, Illinois (112,936)
Evansville, Indiana (121,582)
Cedar Rapids, Iowa (120,758)
Wichita, Kansas (344,284)
Louisville, Kentucky (256,231)
Grand Rapids, Michigan (197,800)
Minneapolis, Minnesota (382,618)
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania (334,563)
Providence, Rhode Island (173,618)
Knoxville, Tennessee (173,890)
Madison, Wisconsin (208,054)
Population numbers are based upon 2000 census. Toledo's was 313,619.
Are these cities and others of similar size begging for someone to develop their empty waterfront property, if they have any?
Downtown Toledo's waterfront is prime. And with the close proximity to Lake Erie, an incredible opportunity exits with the Marina District land, in my opinion.
posted by jr at 07:52 P.M. EST on Thu Jun 29, 2006 #
The state money currently in place for the Marina Distric is $2 million remaining from the original $7.5 million in White Paper dollars originally committed to the project in 2002 or 2003. It was originally earmarket for an Arena in the Marina District. The $2 mil remaining is now earmarked for an amphitheater or related project. The other $5.5 million was moved to the downtown arena project.
The fact is if we don't spend it all soon the state legislature is going to give it to another project somewhere else in the State. The money is going to be spent somewhere, we might as well try to get our fair share for a change.
posted by steiner at 09:07 P.M. EST on Thu Jun 29, 2006 #
"... an incredible opportunity exists with the Marina District land ..."
Not exits, although a few developers have exited the project.
posted by jr at 09:09 P.M. EST on Thu Jun 29, 2006 #
billy said: "I'd thought that's why the local population voted for a mayor who "gets results"... So far - no Marina district, no Southwyck, no movement on the steam plant..."
Whoa, wait a minute. The Steam Plant? Exactly WHO is to blame for that? Czarty? Hell, no. The city already paid a $200K initial investigation fee or something like that (i.e. a bribe, which I personally suspect became a kickback to Ford, perhaps for his impending campaign). The so-called developer claimed to have had $20 million or so investment lined up. What happened to all that?
If a private developer doesn't actually spend his $20 million on the investment property itself, then there's nothing rational or moral for government to do further.
These sentiments apply equally to Southwyck and the Marina District. Southwyck is not important in the civic setting since it is NOT a function of government to provide us with retail shopping outlets -- as Jr clearly intimated. The MD itself has long been cleared to even exist by the government -- which is where government involvement must stop since all the rest is private citizens and corporations spending their own money to perform development.
Jr said: ''Americans For Prosperity Foundation (AFP) is a section 501(c)(3) organization "committed to educating citizens about economic policy and a return of the federal government to its Constitutional limits".''
Obviously I support such a thing as given, from all my postings. It's too bad that it's probably just another rightwingnut front group that is more apt to push for decreasing taxes on the elite while stopping little Johnny from putting his dick in someone's consenting ass.
posted by GuestZero at 02:17 A.M. EST on Fri Jun 30, 2006 #
jr, i'm with you on this. if this was going to be so successful, why is there such a lack of interest? i see another portside coming.
i'll tell you what they need to include....a casino. the chances for success go up tremendously if they were ever able to do such a thing. of course, though, ohioans take the "high and mighty" road and don't allow it (except for bingo, all the lottery games, monte carlo night, horse racing, etc, etc).
at the same time, we see money going to neighboring states. sorry...i'll get off my soap box. maybe this could be an issue for another forum.
posted by wholesaler1972 at 08:53 A.M. EST on Fri Jun 30, 2006 #
i want to get on my soapbox for a moment.
i think people need to quit looking at it as state tax dollars or local tax dollars.
they're our tax dollars and that's our money. they take it excessively from our paychecks and wallets.
while i'm not sure of this particular watchdog group, i'm glad these groups exist (especially the "grassroots" type). they seem to do their best in serving as a instrument of accountability. i just wish alot of these groups had a louder voice.
posted by wholesaler1972 at 09:07 A.M. EST on Fri Jun 30, 2006 #
while i'm not sure of this particular watchdog group, i'm glad these groups exist (especially the "grassroots" type)
I feel obligated to mention the sheer number of "astroturf" groups (fake grass roots) that exist now, fronted by Big Business or a particular political party. The "Hands Off the Internet" group is one such body.
posted by anonymouscoward at 04:05 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 30, 2006 #
GZ - I agree with the responsibility argument. I had understood the czarty position to manage the city and it's services. Not to develop them. However, that said, he does a great job at promising more than the scope of his position.
The world I come from - development is handled by and created by - well, gee ;-) businesses. The supplying services and urban landscape is provided by the managed city services.
I think that we may have swallowed a fish tail here.
posted by katie82640 at 07:37 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 30, 2006 #
and steiner - that's mind boggling. Can you share your resource? I hadn't any idea.
posted by katie82640 at 07:38 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 30, 2006 #
katie,
I've been active on this project since Kass made the first announcement (except fot the years when Mayor Ford excluded East Toledo from the process.) There is a lot of negativity on this site towards the Marina District and that is understandable but disapointing for me.
There is significant progress being made in a quiet way that is generating interest from private investors. There is however several regulatory issues that need to be taken care of before any significant development can begin. There is reason to be very optimistic about the Marina District project but the people currently involved understand that much has been promised and little delivered to date. Public announcements will be made only after the potential projects have a resonably high certainty of being completed.
This project remains the single most important project for the future of Toledo and we only get 1 chance to do it right. If we remain patient and persistant the Marina District development will have a major positive influence on Toledo.
posted by steiner at 11:27 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 30, 2006 #
"There is a lot of negativity on this site towards the Marina District ..."
Where on this site is there negativity toward the Marina District? Provide some links. I'm interested in reading them.
"This project remains the single most important project for the future of Toledo and we only get 1 chance to do it right. If we remain patient and persistant the Marina District development will have a major positive influence on Toledo."
That's right, so why was Pizzuti fired? After Czarty acquired office, why did he give Pizzuti only three months? Is that being patient? Pizzuti had only been on board for about a year.
steiner, you said:
"I've said it before: Pizzuti being gone is a good Thing."
Last year, Pizzuti did study on the sports arena, participated in the Marina District brainstorming session that was only attended by a couple local politicians, and last fall, Pizzuti produced a plan for the Marina District.
You're right, this isn't Westgate, which can be simply designed and built rather quickly. So where was the patience for a real developer like Pizzuti?
Pizzuti projects:
Build to suit
Industrial
Office
Land development
"This project remains the single most important project for the future of Toledo and we only get 1 chance to do it right."
Fine, Pizzuti wasn't it, but do you trust Czarty's team to successfully build this once-in-a-lifetime project? What's the porfolio of completed projects by Czarty's team that convinces you the Marina District project will be done right?
posted by jr at 12:13 A.M. EST on Sat Jul 01, 2006 #
Where on this site is there negativity toward the Marina District?
Negativity? I'd like to see SOMETHING POSITIVE happen. It's just that like everything else in Toledo, it's a proposal that degenerates into a pile of verbal masturbation and a few pictures (see above). If there's any negativity, it's not towards the idea, it's towards the idea of it ever happening, as in "yeah right, it'll get built right after they get done with [other proposed thing] or [right after Hell freezes over/aerial pigs infest the city/monkeys fly out of Czarty's ass/certain people drop dead].
And I must say I love how the Czarty meme is spreading. One of these days I'll see it in the Blade or hear about it being used on-air and probably do a spit-take at influencing the minds of so many.
What's the porfolio of completed projects by Czarty's team
Yeah, I'd like to see this as well, for ALL of his time in office. I suspect that it'd fit on one page, double-spaced.
"Got my condo moved to Marblehead"
"Got Owens Corning to build new HQ"
"repaved some streets"
"continued to screw with Erie Street Market"
"pissed off police"
"got shower for personal use built"
Really.
posted by anonymouscoward at 01:14 A.M. EST on Sat Jul 01, 2006 #
From the article:
I think that it’s about time that the pork found its way to Toledo since it’s seemed to have stopped many times in Cleveland and Columbus and Cincinnati,” Mayor Carty Finkbeiner said yesterday.
Wowsers, that is all I can say is wowsers. That statement really says alot about the beliefs of the Democratic Party.
The phrase comes to mind "be a part of the solution, not part of the problem." Does it sound like Carty is trying to be part of the solution to out of control spending?
I can see some $$ being used for economic development, but we all know the money is being used for studies and political handouts and that we haven't seen a lick of progress in getting either project moving.
posted by lloyd at 11:36 A.M. EST on Sat Jul 01, 2006 #
steiner there is alot of negativity about carty right now and since the project is on his desk - I'd think people aren't feeling too positive about it.
I think you are right. The cities I've lived in with thriving retail/residential downtown had developed (private development) in community approved phases.
The inner harbor in Baltimore is a fantastic example of this type of co-operative development. It has a hopping bar district, upscale restaurant and a four story mall/retail - a little bit of residential, a maritime museum, the aquarium and the USS Constellation. Which you can tour and it's just a great weekend or week night destination. The harbor is not large and we have a lot more water front acreage available for this project. It has great potential - the access on both sides - alot of acreage for co-operative development and the people of Toledo want it done.
I just don't think we should opt for government development - but rather a citizen's group of local business people could be formed to go out and entice business to buy and develop the area. That's what alot of other cities have done.
Then what would the Mayor have to say about that? If you can't go through it, go around it :-)
http://www.baltimore.org/baltimore_inner_harbor.htm
posted by katie82640 at 12:21 P.M. EST on Sat Jul 01, 2006 #
I think that it’s about time that the pork found its way to Toledo
Aww. But it's true, Dem and Republican alike divert the pork to the three-Cs while the politicians in Toledo are too busy with their own little turf wars and nepotistic affairs to pull in some pork that will benefit the people rather than some narrow self-serving interests.
That statement really says alot about the beliefs of the Democratic Party.
And which party has controlled the state for the past 12 years? Which party has controlled Congress since 1994? Which party's been involved in a massive scandal involving $50 million in state funds going to a certain donor who managed to lose $12 million of that and who was involved in illegally funnelling money into certain candidates from a certain party?
Oh, and which party has been predominant in the news recently about taking dinners and plane rides and hotel stays and all that? (Hint: the party icon is an elephant.)
Does it sound like Carty is trying to be part of the solution to out of control spending?
No, but neither have the state and federal level Republicans. I double-dog dare you to disagree with me on that. And Czarty and Toledo blowing a few hundred grand jerking off with these various projects and studies doesn't really compare to the state funding Tom Noe's childhood dreams or Republican campaigns, and it doesn't scale up at all to blowing $500 BILLION on Dubya's revenge.
rather a citizen's group of local business people could be formed to go out and entice business to buy and develop the area.
Since I'm on your LIST I doubt you'll even read this but could you stop copying my ideas. Anyway, it wouldn't work, because trying to get citizens and businesspeople to do anything in Toledo is like trying to herd comatose cats: even if you could get them all awake and to care enough to move, keeping them pointed in the same direction and getting them to move forward is impossible.
posted by anonymouscoward at 01:18 P.M. EST on Sat Jul 01, 2006 #
But according to this website:
http://www.emich.edu/public/geo/557book/d370.innerharbor.html
"But the work had just begun. The City was only halfway through its 30-year plan and to finish turning the Inner Harbor vision into reality would still cost millions. Fortunately, during the 1970s the federal government was very supportive of innovative revitalization efforts and provided funding through Community Development Block Grants (CDBG) and Urban Development Action Grants (UDAG) and Baltimore accepted the help without question."
And according to
http://www.citypaper.com/news/story.asp?id=3314
Altogether, Baltimore won UDAG grants totalling about $100 million, which leveraged $450 million in private investment in the city.
But "The UDAG program, however, was killed by Congress in 1988, under the Reagan administration. At the time, conservatives denounced UDAGs as "an urban slush fund [that] lines the pockets of developers."
So it would seem that government spending was indeed involved in the revitalization of Baltimore's Inner Harbor project.
posted by pink_slip at 01:19 P.M. EST on Sat Jul 01, 2006 #
Toledo's problems are twofold for the purposes of attracting or managing a so-called public project:
1. Enabling ... Welfare. What should be a government working to manage the regulation of a project, becomes a government that tries to pay for all of it. Developers then take advantage of that, and end up mired in Toledoan egos and an innate inability to pay for much of anything. Both sides become stupid greedbags whose combined greed kills the financial reality of the project.
2. Egos and Kudos. Somewhere along the way a project runs into an utterly unforeseen and otherwise incomprehensible restriction. The Westgate developers ran into this with Czarty and his "Walk Westgate" plan ... and incomprehensibly so, as if he owned the property himself. From all the news reports, the Westgate development was proceeding in accordance with building codes, and THAT is where politicians should have stopped obstructing.
It's bad enough when businesses get so greedy that (in Wal*Mart's case) you can end up as America's largest employer YET you can't or won't pay a living wage. This problem becomes impossible to solve once such greed rubs up against the most inane pack of politicians ever devised. Toledoans have to stop NOT CARING about politics and have to get out there and promote smarter people for public offices ... and then vote for them. Critical of Mr Konop though I am, at least he exhibits energy, morals and smarts. Czarty is wholly lacking in the latter two categories. Equally so, the city council is overstaffed with immoral twits.
We largely cannot control a scumbag corporation like Wal*Mart. But we CAN directly control the other scumbag in-corporation known as the City of Toledo, per its political aspects. WE put Toledo's executives in place, and WE have put ruinously bad execs in place in election after election. PLEASE STOP!
posted by GuestZero at 03:27 P.M. EST on Sat Jul 01, 2006 #
Ah it seems someone has learned to google. - glad to see it!
Yes, many of the CEOs of 50 major companies form the Greater Baltimore Committee ...were able to access pieces of available public funds. this is a good business practice. A game = play with other people's money. Fallback B game = pay the balance out of your own checkbook.
It's almost as old a game as prostitution.
Great observation. Now rather than trying to trip me up - how about discussing some local business CEO's that might make a good committee to get our OWN area jumpstarted?
posted by katie82640 at 03:57 P.M. EST on Sat Jul 01, 2006 #
fyi the inner harbor in Baltimore's revitalization plan was laid out in the 1950's. Built over the years and it's quite a statement about how people who work together for a common goal can do just about anything.
posted by katie82640 at 04:05 P.M. EST on Sat Jul 01, 2006 #
local business CEO's that might make a good committee
-5 points for improper use of apostrophe.
We have local business CEOs?
Let's hear some names out of you first, katie. What are our local businesses and why should they care?
posted by anonymouscoward at 04:23 P.M. EST on Sat Jul 01, 2006 #
So......which opinion belongs to you katie82640? This one:
I just don't think we should opt for government development
or this one:
Yes, many of the CEOs of 50 major companies form the Greater Baltimore Committee ...were able to access pieces of available public funds (tax money). this is a good business practice. Which is it??
Also, in answer to this:
how about discussing some local business CEO's that might make a good committee to get our OWN area jumpstarted?
That was not the point of my original post. Is was to question the validity of this "American for Prosperity", by saying that the 7.5 marina project (or whatever is left of it) is wasteful spending. Do you agree with this? You seemed to agree when you stated:
I just don't think we should opt for government development and yet you agreed that partial government development of the Baltimore Inner Harbor was: a good business practice Just pick a side.
In answer to this:
Now rather than trying to trip me up
But it's sooooo easy....
posted by pink_slip at 04:31 P.M. EST on Sat Jul 01, 2006 #
WTH? You make no sense. How is not opting for government development and advocating for business development confusing you?
There were government funds available that the BUSINESS committee accessed for a funding option. How is this confusing to you? This makes no sense at all.
Sure it's easy to rip somebody apart if you have that intent and are willing to never let any facts get in your way.
Oh hell - you're on the list :-) Why'm I bothering with you :-)
Dances away happily.....
posted by katie82640 at 05:00 P.M. EST on Sat Jul 01, 2006 #
katie82640, don't read this--
Americans for Prosperity---they seem to advocate the curtailing of state spending.
But, we have already paid tax money to the state. We as taxpayors should be able to benefit from these taxes, no?
Therefore, shouldn't Americans for Prosperity advocate for the cessation of state taxes?
posted by pink_slip at 05:19 P.M. EST on Sat Jul 01, 2006 #
The Marina District is planned as a public/private development. The concept is similar to those used all over the country. The public makes it's investment in infrastructure and public spaces throughout the development and the hope is that that public investment will then draw private investors to the project. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't but that's the concept. It's a risk/reward scenario. The planned public investment for the Marina District will include a public marina and a marine passenger terminal just north of the Acme plant, the design phase of this project is in the very final stages and is less than 60 days from going to bid. The Marina itself is days from going to bid. If you drive by the site you can see that the sheet pile for the actual marina is already in place. Another public investment project will be the riverfront walking path. This is planned to extend the entire lengnth of the project and include gathering and resting areas. The riverfront in proposed to remain public. A public/private partnership is planned for an amphitheater. The dollars mentioned that started this thread are proposed to provide incentive to a private investor to partner with Toledo or a non-profit entity and make the remaining investment in the project obviously with the hope of making a profit for the private partner and generating a positive economic impact for Northwest Ohio. The recently purchased Olive Branch rail line is proposed to be developed into a bike path and there is some non government funding already committed to this project courtesy of the Toledo Rotary Club. Additional public funding sources are in place with more being sought.
It's working. There has been REAL interest generated by the progress being made. The committee continues to work on several proposed private project's but you won't hear any public announcements until the ink is dry on the deals.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, there are still regulatory details needed. For instance, the City does not yet have a No Further Action letter (NFA) from the EPA. This is essential prior to any development takes place. Believe it or not the time line for this is right on schedule and the necessary documents are being prepared for submission. There also needs to be an Urban Renual Plan approved and in place prior to development. This is where the previous administration really dropped the ball. I recently saw a critical path for this that projected submission of the plan in 2001. It was barely even started. It is now on the fast track and signifcant has been made in the last 6 months thanks to the hard work and dedication of several public employees and other committe members.
Things are really going well but it's not glamorous and don't expect to hear about any private investment until it's chisseled in stone.
I've probably said too much but I think it's important for people to understand that there is progress being made and the potential of this project has not been diminished.
posted by steiner at 05:59 P.M. EST on Sat Jul 01, 2006 #
"And which party has controlled the state for the past 12 years? Which party has controlled Congress since 1994?"
And bringing it down to the local level where it matters most, in my opinion, which party has controlled Toledo and Lucas County for so many years? And what has been "accomplished" with their leadership?
1. - "Toledo's home county, Lucas, is the only one of Ohio's major urban counties to lose private-sector professional, scientific, and technical services jobs over the latest five-year period."
Blade stats for each county and the % change in employment in these types of jobs:
Summit (Akron) 45%
Montgomery (Dayton) 16%
Franklin (Columbus) 15%
Hamilton (Cincinnati) 14%
Cuyahoga (Cleveland) 2%
Lucas (Toledo) -11%
How did Akron and Dayton manage the biggest growth when they are not part of the three-Cs?
2. - "Fifth from the bottom. That's how Toledo ranked in the latest national study of job growth among the 200 major metropolitan areas. The No. 196 ranking was worse than the previous report more than a year ago by the Milken Institute, a California think tank."
Other Michigan and Ohio cities in the largest metro list:
135. Columbus OH
149. Cincinnati-Middletown OH-KY-IN
156. Ann Arbor MI
160. Akron OH
169. Kalamazoo-Portage MI
175. Holland-Grand Haven MI
187. Dayton OH
Bottom 10:
191. Hickory-Lenoir-Morganton NC
192. Detroit-Livonia-Dearborn, MI Metropolitan Division
193. Grand Rapids-Wyoming MI
194. Cleveland-Elyria-Mentor OH
195. Warren-Farmington Hills-Troy, MI Metropolitan Division
196. Toledo OH
197. Lansing-East Lansing MI
198. Canton-Massillon OH
199. Youngstown-Warren-Boardman OH-PA
200. Flint MI
3. - "Toledo shrinks 13th-fastest of U.S. cities, census says; 1.1% population drop in '05 among worst in Ohio."
Biggers population losers in 2005.
13 Toledo -1.1
21 Flint, Mich -0.9
23 Dayton -0.8
35 Ann Arbor -0.7
50 Akron -0.5
What's Akron doing that puts them ahead of Toledo in all of three of these stats?
posted by jr at 09:27 P.M. EST on Sat Jul 01, 2006 #
How did Akron and Dayton manage the biggest growth when they are not part of the three-Cs?
Conservative bases that directed the pork there.
posted by anonymouscoward at 09:47 P.M. EST on Sat Jul 01, 2006 #
Scrolling...scrolling :-)
Hello Steiner. It's heartening to read that there are inroads over the last six months. I did not realize this and I thank you for the information. I won't ask for more information but it is quite good to read what you wrote. Thank you kindly sir :-) I like the positive. And I'll get behind it.
jr that is one eye-opening set of stats. I don't know about Akron, but I have a good business associate who lives there. I'm sending an email to him tonight - but he probably won't answer till Wed. I'll let you know what he says is happening, community/business development wise. I like the way you think. Find out what works and do it here - yes?
posted by katie82640 at 10:34 P.M. EST on Sat Jul 01, 2006 #
http://www.ci.akron.oh.us/attract.html
http://www.rubberbuzz.com/akron-businesses/
http://www.wkyc.com/entertainment/
posted by katie82640 at 03:40 P.M. EST on Sun Jul 02, 2006 #
"But, we have already paid tax money to the state. We as taxpayors should be able to benefit from these taxes, no?
Therefore, shouldn't Americans for Prosperity advocate for the cessation of state taxes? "
You do realize that there's a connection between taxes and spending, right? The more money politicians spend, the higher the taxes have to go.
If spending is cut back, then over time the treasury will run surpluses and either this money will have to be redistributed to the public, or taxes will have to be cut in the long term.
posted by paddington at 12:24 A.M. EST on Mon Jul 03, 2006 #
"How did Akron and Dayton manage the biggest growth when they are not part of the three-Cs?
Conservative bases that directed the pork there.
posted by anonymouscoward at 10:47 P.M. EST on Sat Jul 01, 2006"
Sounds worth a try. The liberal base we have had for 30 years sure aint kickin it
posted by billy at 06:08 A.M. EST on Mon Jul 03, 2006 #
Katie - that Akron site is pretty enlightening. I noticed that as a city run website that it appears to promote the positive view of the city instead of the politicians themselves. Perhaps that is what we need to try?
posted by DoknowDocare at 07:35 A.M. EST on Mon Jul 03, 2006 #
I think so too doknow. It's very positive and looks like the area is active.
posted by katie82640 at 08:29 A.M. EST on Mon Jul 03, 2006 #
I understand what you are saying paddington. Does anyone here think the Marina district project is a "pork-barrel project", or wasteful spending?
Btw steiner, thanks for the info...
posted by pink_slip at 08:52 A.M. EST on Mon Jul 03, 2006 #
I asked of Toledo's Marina District land:
"Toledo shouldn't have to look for a developer. It seems to me, that if developing that land was worthwhile, Toledo could sit back and have its pick of developers."
June 21, 2006 Toledo Free Press story about the Rossford land in the golden triangle.
Ed Ciecka, Rossford city administrator, said:
"The city owns no property in the area; we're working with private developers. They're coming to us."
But then again ...
"Rossford oversees what some builders call the most valuable undeveloped land between New York and Chicago."
Also ...
"Rossford annexed the land from 1992 to 1999, incorporating approximately 1,200 acres. McMahon said annexing, as opposed to the city purchasing the land, sped zoning processes."
"Miller said beneficial zoning, available utilities and the area's attitude toward promoting development have “opened the door” to businesses. “The amount of development, particularly in the retail area along the Route 20 corridor — there is none that matches it, including areas like Levis Commons [in Perrysburg],” Miller said. “The amount of footage developed there in the past five years has exceeded anything in the Toledo metropolitan area.” "
Regionalism
"Ciecka doles out credit for Crossroads growth to developers, real estate agents, Wood County and the Rossford/Perrysburg Township Port Authority. No one government group takes credit."
Ha! Imagine that happening in Toledo.
"He said the Wood County development group serves as a point of contact and works with tax assistance packages, which are approved by Wood County commissioners. Gottschalk said most developers have received almost no tax break packages. Ciecka said Rossford has fewer tax abatements than neighboring cities."
"Verbosky said Rossford has a proactive planning commission. He said that as a new mayor, and with a new administrator, he has seen the city's relationships with developers strengthened and renewed."
But what's out in that area?
"Now, within a two-mile radius, shoppers can find almost all of the nation's big box retailers, McMahon said. One stretch includes Home Depot, Giant Eagle, Target, Lowe's and Meijer."
Isn't Wal-Mart also planning to build in that area? Pretty bland. It seems more interesting businesses would have sprung up around a new arena and outdoor amphitheater.
Bass Pro would be interesting, but so far, nothing official about a store opening up out there.
"Crossroads Centre, which spans the south side of Route 795 bordered by I-75 and the Ohio Turnpike, could become home to a Bass Pro Shop, most of the United States' largest retailers and related retail and hotel developments."
"Bass Pro's presence has become common in speculation despite the company's reluctance to announce."
One unique project is being built on the Rossford crossroads land:
"The 75,000-square-foot [Gold Medal Indoor Sports] complex, scheduled to open in October, will have facilities for sports including soccer, lacrosse, and flag football for youths and adults."
I wonder if downtown Rossford will ever see any benefits? Downtown Rossford has multiple empty storefronts, and it's not nearly as interesting as the old downtowns of Perrysburg, Maumee, and Sylvania.
posted by jr at 09:59 A.M. EST on Mon Jul 03, 2006 #
In the 2004 posting titled "Toledo loses business incubator," a poster said:
"The 3C's still reign in Ohio and it has everything to do with Northwest Ohio being solidly Democratic and State government being Republican. Republicans in Ohio support other Republicans, while we in NW Ohio can just fend for ourselves."
Yet, a June 2004 WTOL story said:
"As Republicans have controlled all statewide non-judicial state offices for 10 years, Democrats have turned to the cities for their power. Democrats run Ohio's six largest cities, including Toledo."
posted by jr at 12:19 P.M. EST on Tue Jul 04, 2006 #
Thank you Steiner. This makes sense.
Rossford info - really interesting...have been watching the developments (no pun intended) there.
posted by katie82640 at 02:03 P.M. EST on Tue Jul 04, 2006 #
I'd have to say that on the basis of Jr's observations, Dems in Ohio are in trouble. They are turning the cities for their power bases, but those cities are in decline due to flight to the countryside (or partial countryside as expressed by a further ring of suburbs). The next step in this political war is regionalism, as the Dems try to attain control over the outer rings.
posted by GuestZero at 02:42 A.M. EST on Wed Jul 05, 2006 #
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