I saw that also. Amazing. It tends to make me think the attorneys have no real defense. The trial should be interesting.
posted by max at 05:00 P.M. EST on Fri Oct 13, 2006 #
Well, that certainly is ridiculous. This should be Noe's defense -- It's the BWC's fault for hiring an incompetent, lying piece of shit.
posted by ToledoPlusPlus at 09:16 P.M. EST on Fri Oct 13, 2006 #
OK - let me get this straight - if I bounce a check I can blame the bank for allowing me to have checks to write? Or if I take $100 out of the bank and I spend it in less than 2 minutes, I can blame the bank for handing me the money? I'm so confused....
posted by DoknowDocare at 10:17 P.M. EST on Fri Oct 13, 2006 #
This is a very sorry legal tactic. Grasping at straws.
Yes, indeed. This will be a very interesting case, that unfolds.
posted by crazytimes at 10:35 P.M. EST on Fri Oct 13, 2006 #
When lawyers descend to these depths during a "defense", they probably know their client is going to be hung like a side of beef and filleted into a few dozen steaks ... so, why not use every crazy idea in the book?
Look at it this way: If you have terminal cancer, then why not try an experimental treatment regime? You're gonna die anyway, so you may as well push the envelope.
Of course, the "experimental defense" is of more use to a law firm than it is to any single client under the test. Just look at all the tax-loophole "memos of understanding" that the IRS wrote for accounting firms over the last 20 years. The firms made some serious bank in developing such arcane (and frankly fraudulent) accounting methods on the backs of a few loser clients. Later clients did make out, sure, but the early clients were the guinea pigs.
So, given that he's stuck with the "experimental defense", at this point if Noe doesn't fire his own lawyers then one or more of the following is true:
1. He's a dumb bunny. (Note well that I never ruled this out for Noe. After all, he's the bright spark who thought that denying access to government auditors would somehow ever work out.)
2. He's not actually paying for his lawyers. After all, if he could secretly funnel money to Bush's campaign from others, then others could be secretly paying for his legal bills. *cough*Blackwell*cough* The state-level Republicans are all in it together, anyway (... kind of like the Democrats in Toledo, come to think of it).
3. He's as desperate as a wriggling worm on a hook. I actually hope that this option is true, since it'll keep me toasty warm this winter whenever I think of it. Mmmmm!
posted by GuestZero at 12:47 A.M. EST on Sat Oct 14, 2006 #
OK - let me get this straight - if I bounce a check I can blame the bank for allowing me to have checks to write? Or if I take $100 out of the bank and I spend it in less than 2 minutes, I can blame the bank for handing me the money? I'm so confused....
This is a very sorry legal tactic. Grasping at straws.
Are you sure? Expensive lawyers get the guilty off every day with crap like this. (OJ?)
The old joke - "how can I be out of money when I still have checks left in my book??" is unfortunately holding true today in many ways.
There is a societal ill that is much larger than even this issue is, and that's my old mantra that 'responsibility and accountability are fightin' words to a whole lotta people, and there's a whole lotta special interest groups and even more lawyers out there ready to back them up.'
While we put up with fat people suing mcdonalds, and drunks suing bartenders, we're going to have crap like Noe's lawyer trying to put the blame on anyone but Noe.
Im leaning more and more towards a 'loser pays' way of doing things.
posted by billy at 07:23 A.M. EST on Sat Oct 14, 2006 #
I thought it was telling, of how desperate Noe's attorney's may really be, by this attorney raising this 'defense' at jury selection. Of course, the judge chastised him for doing this at jury selection - they weren't there to try the case or listen to arguments, so he was jumping the gun. But any decent attorney KNOWS this about jury selection - knows it is going to piss off the judge, and to do it anyway, makes me think they are indeed, grasping.
I think this makes three separate episodes in the Noe mess where his attorneys made questionable moves on his behalf.
1 - When they solicited letters and anecdotes of good things about good old Tom from his frinds & acquaintences, to help make him more likable, only to have it backfire horribly in the Blade.
2 - The Channel 11 segments with Bernie & Tom tugging our heart strings, how they're all about God now, and how little Bernie is just a girl "I don't know nuthin about money stuff" - I doubt very much the Noe's scripted and arranged those tv segments without the concent or advice or their attorney's, or at least the "OK, go at it" by them. Again, backfired horribly.
3 - This latest ploy during jury selection of blaming BWC for writing a bad contract and trusting Noe to begin with - pissing off the judge in the process, and coming off as desperate.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if Noe asked to fire his lawyers, because they didn't do him well, to delay this trial, meaning he'll be home for Christmas.
posted by starling02 at 01:23 P.M. EST on Sat Oct 14, 2006 #
Holy Rare Coins, starling! Half of your speculation makes sense. Maybe Noe's team is trying to get a trial delay through, er, Tomfoolery, so that it can easily slide past the Nov 7 election without any further Republican-damaging revelations in court.
Give yourself a gold star. Suddenly it all makes sense now. I luuuuv ToledoTalk. :^)
posted by GuestZero at 02:09 P.M. EST on Sat Oct 14, 2006 #
Ha, ha! Which half makes sense? I was just thinking out loud - after the 'anecdotes from friends' incident, I wondered if Noe would complain his attorney's aren't doing their best by him - and demand new attorneys and start over, putting off even longer his time behind bars. Hell, if it was MY lawyer who advised or did this stuff that made the public even more pissed off at me, and made me look even more repugnant, I'd fire them in a heartbeat. Anyway, ya got me curious - was there really a half part that made sense of my ponderings?
posted by starling02 at 06:04 P.M. EST on Sat Oct 14, 2006 #
The half that said the antics of Noe's lawyers are aimed at delaying the trial. The other half was that you said the delay was for getting Noe home for Xmas. I dspute that half, and offer the speculation that the delay is instead for getting Republicans out of all the hot water that they deserve this election cycle. Remember, the national GOP is concentrating on a few, high-profile Senate races. Ohio's is one of those. My beloved WSJ for Oct 14/15 tells me:
“Republicans have increasingly concentrated on three Senate seats -- Tennessee, Missouri and Ohio -- to try to salvage at least a one-seat majority. [...] The party's national and Senate campaign accounts have recently spent $14.1 million to hold the seats of retiring Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist of Tennessee, Missouri Sen. Jim Talent and Ohio Sen. Mike DeWine -- with $8 million spent on Mr DeWine alone.”
The national GOP has spent eight million bucks to assure DeWine is re-elected. From that, there's literally no way they'll let a Republican-scandal event like Noe's coin-fund trial reach the news in full force. For a minor expense of, say, $10000 in legal fees, the Republicans can do the math on trying to delay (even throw) a trial.
Recall that Noe's wife now works for the Republican state government in Florida. This is all a current affair, starling, and all interconnected. You were "righter" than you knew, methinks. :^o
posted by GuestZero at 05:00 P.M. EST on Sun Oct 15, 2006 #
If Noe's attorneys do a bad job - it's grounds for an appeal I think. So they might not get canned.
I'm quite curious to see what the defense will be.
Interesting note - years ago, In Michigan - at my Dad's dealership a man stole a car that a mechanic had left the keys in. The lot had one of those cable chains across the driveway so he tried to drive through the drainage ditch and rolled the car. Hurt himself.
Sued my Dad. Won. It's called creating an 'attractive nuisance' and it's probably not spelled right - but it means if you dangle something in front of a thief it's your fault.
Like you should KNOW how a thief thinks and what they'll want to steal.
posted by katie82640 at 08:27 P.M. EST on Sun Oct 15, 2006 #
I love listening to your conspiracy theories GZ. They make me laugh.
BTW~ The Republican party announced it's diverting funding earmarked for Dewine toward other Senate races. Most notably Missouri, Tennesse, and Virginia. So your second to last paragraph there is on shaky footing as the current situation stands.
posted by MikeyA at 12:38 A.M. EST on Mon Oct 16, 2006 #
NY Times story:
"Senior Republican leaders have concluded that Senator Mike DeWine of Ohio, a pivotal state in this year’s fierce midterm election battles, is likely to be heading for defeat and are moving to reduce financial support for his race and divert party money to other embattled Republican senators, party officials said."
posted by jr at 01:06 A.M. EST on Mon Oct 16, 2006 #
Thanks for the link, Jr.
Well, Mikey, I quoted a news article what was at most 2 days old in real terms, but by publication date it was ZERO days old (WSJ October 14/15 issue). Oh, damn me for being 24 HOURS off! Bad GuestZero!
At any rate, nothing's changed from all the now-current indicators, since Noe's trial is underway (albeit at the jury-selection level). As for more that's not really changed, Jr's article is telling:
“Mr. DeWine has proved to be a successful fund-raiser on his own, and, with $4.5 million on hand, already enjoys a large financial advantage over his Democratic opponent, Representative Sherrod Brown; he is not dependent on financial support to keep campaigning. The Republican National Committee and the Republican Senatorial Campaign Committee have already spent $4.6 million on his race; party officials said they concluded that there were now simply more opportune races to focus on.”
Firstly, $10000 to delay a trial is still an affordable maneuver. DeWine's electability was an aim. If that focus has changed, then it's changed NOW, but before it changed it probably resulted in a Republican scheme which may now still be in operation. The Noe trial preparations took place weeks ago. His lawyers probably received their marching orders a long time before that, when they knew the trial's timing would affect the election. The invoice from Noe's lawyers' firm was probably already cut, delivered and paid.
Secondly, Ohio has more than just a Republican senator at stake. There's also a Republican Gov candidate, Blackwell. This candidate has a big elite program lined up, that would well situate the Republican assholes in Ohio and nationally. Blackwell is working to do some major stuff that means A LOT to the power-Republicans in the USA; he's going to put Jesus on a throne in Columbus, privatize everything in sight, cut even more taxes on the wealthy, and finally force Ohio's working poor to buy disastrously-costly health insurance from the wealthy insurance industry.
If the national GOP is diverting some real energy away from DeWine, he has plenty of money in the first place. Also, they still have to face the reality of possibly losing Ohio from the Noe scandal. Inasmuch as it can be, Ohio is important to the Republican plan for destroying the American Republic and converting it into an outright Empire (which kills, enslaves and terrorizes the poor domestically and abroad ... which explains why pols like DeWine and Blackwell like they idea so much, since they hate the poor and foreigners). Ohio is about 20 electoral votes that went for the Republican Presidency in 2004. It's a big prize on that basis ... which is why that goddamn elitist pig-fücker DeWine received such a lion's share of GOP money in the first place.
Nothing's changed, until it truly changes. The next week (starting NOW, since I'm posting at 6am on Monday morning) should be particularly interesting. If Noe's lawyers start letting the trial happen, and then start letting Republican-damaging statements make it to the public record, then I'll be scratching my head and start to concede that my theory is faulty.
posted by GuestZero at 05:19 A.M. EST on Mon Oct 16, 2006 #
No - I think they threw Dewine overboard. Noe has been making some overtures toward the Republican party and I think they're testing the water to see what'll happen.
The Rep's tossed Noe to the wolves when the game came crashing down. I'll bet he is positioned to return the favor.
But the one thing I don't have to bet on is that they'll all be very sure it had to be somebody else's fault. It'd just be too easy to say what happened and everybody take their own reprecussions and move on.....silly thought ain't it?
posted by katie82640 at 08:27 A.M. EST on Mon Oct 16, 2006 #
Friday, October 13 Washington Post story:
"The Republican National Committee, which is using its substantial resources to supplement the party's Senate campaign committee, has spent virtually all of its television money in just three states -- Ohio, Missouri and Tennessee -- hoping to build a levee strong enough to save those seats and the Senate majority."
"But recent events, among them the problems facing Republican Sens. George Allen in Virginia and Mike DeWine in Ohio, make that task even more difficult, GOP strategists privately concede."
From the Power Line blog:
"[RNC Chairman Ken] Mehlman denied reports that the party is effectively pulling out of Ohio and Pennsylvania. He said that resources get moved around depending on varying needs from state-to-state. Thus, a given "tool" or "resource" may be shifted from one state to another. But Mehlman insisted that the overall effort in Ohio and Pennsylvania remains strong."
"Real Clear Politics took a look at the New York Times' report that the RNC is pulling out of Ohio, and found it wanting. The real story here appears to be that Senator DeWine has plenty of resources to do what he needs to do for the next three weeks."
As to Mehlman, an LA Times story yesterday claimed Mehlman and Bob Ney's good buddy, the crooked Jack Abramoff, were a bit too close.
posted by jr at 12:16 P.M. EST on Mon Oct 16, 2006 #
Time to clean house!!!!
posted by katie82640 at 12:26 P.M. EST on Mon Oct 16, 2006 #
Opening Statements! Predictably, the Noe lawyers are blaming the state for allowing every bit of Noe's funny business. (They seem to be behaving themselves for now, however.)
posted by GuestZero at 01:03 P.M. EST on Mon Oct 16, 2006 #
Well if this holds true the State may be in trouble. Is it possible that Noe had a contract that gave permission for all that he did?
It will be pretty interesting to see the exhibit of the 'contract'.
posted by katie82640 at 03:01 P.M. EST on Mon Oct 16, 2006 #
Gee, the Noe trial started in October-wow, just a short time before the election. My-what a coincidence!
posted by Darkseid at 04:29 P.M. EST on Mon Oct 16, 2006 #
katie - I am stunned that car thief won the lawsuit. Disqusting. I'd heard of burglers suing and winning, from getting hurt though. Something is very wrong with our legal system.
posted by starling02 at 06:00 P.M. EST on Mon Oct 16, 2006 #
speaking of criminals suing-a kid broke into my home-hit my dog in the head with a brick as he was trying to climb over the fence with some of my things and his mother tried to sue me for the deliquents bite on his leg. by my dog....thankfully the Judge threw it out.....
...why is anyone surprised as to the lenghts that the Noe's will sink.....they have no conscience....I feel for the children.
posted by divamom26 at 09:41 P.M. EST on Mon Oct 16, 2006 #
Katie, the contract didn't give him permission to pay off his debts with the money, but they did give him remarkable freedom to choose what investments he cared to make on the state's behalf. That's how he was defending the deals he made with Ulmer, isn't it?
I wonder why Bernadette is taking her lawyer to court with her. Does she expect to be charged?
Darkseid, there's no coincidence in the timing. Tom's lawyers are who kept pushing for extra time. Finally they ran out of delay cards. This thing could have been underway ages ago if it weren't for the foot-dragging on the Noe side of the case.
posted by CrankyEastSider at 01:40 A.M. EST on Tue Oct 17, 2006 #
I think so cranky - I'm hoping it all comes out in the trial and we can see that contract the BWC made with him. Don't know about Bernadette - but if Tom Noe was MY husband I wouldn't go to the bathroom without an attorney :-)
Starling - every few years it comes up in conversation w/our family. That's lawsuit. It really does just boggle the mind, after all these years.
posted by katie82640 at 10:24 A.M. EST on Tue Oct 17, 2006 #
Zing! ... latest (maybe) article:
The chairman of the Republican National Committee, Ken Mehlman, scheduled a rare strategy-divulging conference call yesterday to rebut a New York Times report that GOP leaders have concluded Mr. DeWine “is likely to be heading for defeat and are moving to reduce financial support for his race and divert party money to other embattled Republican senators.”
Mr. Mehlman called the story “very inaccurate” and said the RNC plans to spend “millions” more on turnout and message in the next three weeks.
“Ohio is and remains a top priority for us,” Mr. Mehlman said, adding later: “No state will receive more resources from the RNC than Ohio.”
[...]
Mr. Mehlman also dubbed Mr. Blackwell’s campaign a “top priority.”
From the horse's mouth. Of course, Republicans have been known to strrrrretch the truth a bit.
posted by GuestZero at 01:27 P.M. EST on Tue Oct 17, 2006 #
If anybody catches any trial coverage today - will you post? Not that I don't trust the Blade's coverage....ok - you caught me. I don't :-)
posted by katie82640 at 09:51 A.M. EST on Wed Oct 18, 2006 #
Well, Kate, we can probably trust the Blade's coverage as long as Claudia Cooper doesn't show up. Ms Cooper is apparently a walking "news distortion field" as far as the Blade is concerned. Why, in the Sykes vs. Cooper trial, apparently the Blade reporter was so affected by this field that he actually started thinking of guitars.
posted by GuestZero at 01:20 P.M. EST on Wed Oct 18, 2006 #
'Parently so :-)
That's funny right there....
posted by katie82640 at 01:26 P.M. EST on Wed Oct 18, 2006 #
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