Actually, this time I think I agree with you 100% on this. I've rarely if ever seen ANY marketing done for COSI, so I don't want to hear them bitch if they don't get enough people or enough income. They have terrible marketing skills. On the other hand, the Zoo does market fairly well and I do see them actively marketing. I'd be more inclined to vote for a Zoo levy than a COSI levy.
posted by ToledoPlusPlus at 08:34 P.M. EST on Sat Oct 21, 2006 #
COSI is a joke, they got rid of their director and educational director and all along the board of directors is so clueless that they just go along with it. It's enough to make me bonkers, a cosi sign person came to the door and I laughed and said sorry, no chance until your organization is run like it WANTS to stay open.
Good luck to COSI, they're going to need it.
posted by gotoledogo at 06:35 A.M. EST on Sun Oct 22, 2006 #
I've only been down to COSI twice and except for a few small exhibits that were new everything was the same as they'd had there the last time I visited, and the visits were years apart.
The COSI like place up in Detroit had an awesome Titanic exhibit. Why doesn't the one here in town ever have things liike that? Maybe if they did things like that they'd get more people down there.
They only have one small area for younger kids, and if you venture out to other areas you're over run by older kids who are running amok with seemingly little adult supervision.
They won't be getting my vote thats for sure.
Heck I'm not even sure I'm going to vote for the Zoo this time around because it's just getting old, every time there is an election of any kind the Zoo trots out a levy.
If they need money that bad maybe they should stay open later then five oclock so that people could take their kids after work in the warmer weather.
posted by OhioKat at 09:29 A.M. EST on Sun Oct 22, 2006 #
If the COSI levy doesn't pass - they'll be forced to start to market - or close I suppose.
Nobody makes change (generally) until the status quo becomes unacceptable to them.
posted by katie82640 at 11:12 A.M. EST on Sun Oct 22, 2006 #
Amen on the Zoo Kat.
I will not vote for COSI because when it was put into Portside it was viewed as the "Savior of Downtown". It's proven to have been anything but.
I can think of better things to spend my tax dollars on.
posted by MikeyA at 03:59 P.M. EST on Sun Oct 22, 2006 #
The more cultural attractions Toledo builds, the more levies there are on the ballots each election cycle, the higher the taxes go, and the more businesses are driven out... Which forces the Toledo Blade to cry for more government subsidized cultural attractions built in Toledo, which means more levies on the ballots...
posted by paddington at 05:35 P.M. EST on Sun Oct 22, 2006 #
The more cultural attractions Toledo builds, the more levies there are on the ballots each election cycle, the higher the taxes go, and the more businesses are driven out... Which forces the Toledo Blade to cry for more government subsidized cultural attractions built in Toledo, which means more levies on the ballots...
AMEN!!!!!!!!!
posted by billy at 05:45 P.M. EST on Sun Oct 22, 2006 #
OhioKat stated...every time there is an election of any kind the Zoo trots out a levy.
OhioKat, to clear the record, here is a repost from comments I made on an earlier thread about the Zoo levy,
the Zoo's Operating levy request in May was the 1st in 5 years (last passed in 2000) and that the Capital Improvement levy was the first in over 10 years (last passed in 1995). I cannot see this as having a levy on every ballot.
posted by KraZyKat at 07:24 P.M. EST on Sun Oct 22, 2006 #
If they need money that bad maybe they should stay open later then five oclock so that people could take their kids after work in the warmer weather
There are many days during the summer (and winter for that matter)that the Zoo extends their operating hours for special events, education programs and private showings. These events are usualy money makers for the ZOO and do not require a complete staffing level which is one of the reasons these events are profitable.
From a purely financial standpoint, to extend the hours till say 9:00p.m. would require the following:
- A complete keeper staff on duty for an additional 4 hours resulting in increased labor cost
- A complete Visitor Service staff including Concessionary, and Administrative staff also increasing labor cost
- Extended use of energy resources which would increase the operating cost via utility expenditures
For the minimal number of increased vistorship between the hours of 5-9p.m. intake of revenues would not exceed the operating cost making the extended hours a money loss situation instead of a money generator.
posted by KraZyKat at 07:47 P.M. EST on Sun Oct 22, 2006 #
Then how about opening later so they can stay open later? That way the overhead would not be seriously affected.
posted by DoknowDocare at 06:11 A.M. EST on Mon Oct 23, 2006 #
In the interests of clarification, the Zoo's 2000 levy was a 5-year levy. They decided not to try to renew it in 2005 and waited until the spring of 2006. The capital levy is a 10-year levy.
So it's correct that they haven't had a levy on the ballot every year, but they've had a levy on the books and collecting taxes every year. Same as the Library, Area Office on Aging, Mental Health...
posted by MaggieThurber at 07:29 A.M. EST on Mon Oct 23, 2006 #
I don't think anybody is saying the Zoo isn't an integral and important part of the local landscape - I believe that we're being 'it's only'd' to death.
I want fiscal responsibility and accountability. IF an organization has provided those two things and they DO budget the community resources they are given appropriately - then I'd look at a proposal to give them new money, more money or renew the same money.
But the local belief (which defies explanation to me) seems to be - we have the money. It came from you. This, however, in no way obligates us to be accountable TO you, to represent YOUR interests or to even descend down to your lowly level to discuss the matter. But, oh - by the way, can I have some money? And I see it on every level of government here. A total and complete lack of accountability and oversight.
C'mon.....
posted by katie82640 at 08:13 A.M. EST on Mon Oct 23, 2006 #
For the minimal number of increased vistorship between the hours of 5-9p.m. intake of revenues would not exceed the operating cost making the extended hours a money loss situation instead of a money generator
Since they have never (as long as I remember at least) stayed open regularly during the time period of 5pm -9pm how on earth can they say they wouldn't make enough money to justify it?
Private Showings and Special events are not usually things you consider for family time. I'm not talking about elite programs, I'm talking about just regular ol "zooin it".
I love taking my son to the Zoo and we do it quite often, as I usually have a Zoo membership. We often times just go over to see the polar bears and ride the train and never even get over into the main area. I am not anti-Zoo. I just think that extended "regular" hours in the warmer weather would be a good thing for people who can't get to there between 10 and 5.
I'll admit I was wrong saying they seem to always have a levy on the ballot.
It just seems like they do.
posted by OhioKat at 01:43 P.M. EST on Mon Oct 23, 2006 #
They're not going to parade the elephant around again to get this thing passed. I feel cheated.
Aparently the voters saying No once wasn't good enough. Well I'll just have to say No again. No prob for me I could pull that little lever all day but the Board of Elections won't let me.
posted by MikeyA at 02:23 P.M. EST on Mon Oct 23, 2006 #
I think COSI is a great teaching tool, but so is the Toledo Museum of Art. Its free to get into the museum and they never ask the taxpayers for a dime. Why doesn't COSI just raise they're admission $5.00 and leave the taxpayers out of this.
posted by joelwashing at 11:09 P.M. EST on Tue Oct 24, 2006 #
COSI is a great teaching tool. Over 100,000+ schoolkids every year go through that door, from what they report. And you can't open the doors later on school days - the kids' bus schedules need for them to get there early so they can make it back to school by 1-2:30. That's their prime audience on those days, and they're responsive to it.
The Toledo Museum of Art has an incredible endowment from the old money of the Libbeys, etc. That is not unusual for museums built 100 years ago - that is the only reason they can be free to the public. Perhaps smart money would be on COSI going through a 5-year cycle of asking for more money, perhaps double what they're asking now. Build up their endowment so they don't have to rely on a second or third levy down the road. Many museums that are going through current capital campaigns are doing just that right now, wrapping in an endowment piece into the overall project.
There are a ton of marketing efforts that have gone on from COSI - the Blade frequently covers changes going on there, pubs like Toledo Parent routinely have bits on COSI, they're on morning shows a few times a month. 250,000 visitors a year is a decent number for a city of Toledo's size in comparison to other science centers around the country in similar markets. Oh, and by the way, we have all paid for the zoo's excellent marketing. The money for the operating levies we have passed go, in part, to pay for their TV ads, production, print pieces, etc. I'm not saying that's a bad thing at all - it's smart...They earmark some of the funds we give them to ensure that we'll keep giving them money. They may not say as much, and may claim it comes from elsewhere, but in a zero-sum budget game the money we contribute might all be put toward one line item, which then frees up the funds already encumbered there to be used elsewhere.
And lest any forget, the zoo circa mid-'80s was a horrible, nasty place, with things broken down and sadly depressing. The revitalization of the Zoo has come about because the public passed the levies to help make it a place Toledo is proud of, and one that millions of people enjoy. One I'm happy to share with others.
Having a vibrant downtown is something that will attract businesses, not drive them away. Places like OI have left not because of higher taxes, but most likely because they have to pay taxes period (I'm guessing that they received a sweetheart tax-free period from Perrysburg?!?!?) Works by Richard Florida and others detail the importance of cultural attractions on bringing in the next waves of business into regions. Toledo has to be the kind of place that you want to locate your business - great education (which I applaud so many in this list for spearheading), great community, and great weather (well, OK, it's tough to do this last one).
As for no oversight, places like the zoo and COSI do have oversight - it is a private board. If you're going to give them money, demand that they open up their minutes to the public. Make sure that a place on their board is set for a commissioner or some other elected official to oversee (and not just on the board, BTW, on the uber-committee, where most decisions in private organizations are usually done). That's absolutely fair. But it's important to keep pushing forward for an active and alive downtown Toledo, and COSI is a strong part of that.
posted by wombat at 03:34 P.M. EST on Wed Oct 25, 2006 #
If the COSI wanted to move to the zoo and the zoo wanted that as part of their "capital improvements" levy then I might be inclined to vote for it. But COSI doesn't get enough people and I don't believe will ever be a moneymaker. Also I've gone on the record here before that I believe the zoo overcharges families which limits attendance. I believe attendance should always be the first source of revenue and with COSI it's not there with the zoo it's limited.
posted by MikeyA at 07:06 A.M. EST on Thu Oct 26, 2006 #
Wombat, correct me if I'm wrong, but the levy says nothing about opening the meetings or otherwise adding public directors to COSI's board. It can't be "absolutely fair" if it's just not going to happen. What's ONLY happening here is the levy. That ONLY means increased or diverted tax revenue being sent to COSI.
It just means that COSI is going to steal some public funds, and it only requires 50%+1 of the voting public (a subset itself) on Nov 7th in order to steal money from EVERYONE -- the superset 100%.
posted by GuestZero at 02:18 P.M. EST on Thu Oct 26, 2006 #
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