I'm still not feeling that great to be able to really add to this topic but, I think if you read some of the actual press releases that have been put out by the McNamara campaign he has suggested cuts and/or ways to fund some of his suggestions. I've tried to post all of the press releases from any of the local candidates who have emailed them to me.
http://glasscityjungle.blogspot.com/2006/10/joe-mcnamara-outlines-his-plan-for.html
http://glasscityjungle.blogspot.com/2006/09/press-release-mcnamara-proposes.html
http://glasscityjungle.blogspot.com/2006/08/press-release-mcnamara-proposes-toledo.html
There are of course many more - including one that was posted on another blog but the link is no longer live that I had linked to back from August 16th.
Toledo, OH – Consolidated services and joint purchasing between local governments would save taxpayers money and promote economic growth by fostering regional cooperation.
The Toledo City Council candidate will hold a press conference on Thursday, August 17 at 2 PM at One Government Center to call for the establishment of “Team Taxpayer,” an inter-governmental council to explore cost-saving partnerships.
“Politicians have been talking about regional cooperation for decades,” McNamara said. “Let’s do it already. Cooperation will save money for all taxpayers and empower local governments to do more with less.”
Team Taxpayer would assess the feasibility and cost-savings potential of cooperative agreements and then work to implement them. Possible partnerships might involve consolidating services such as tax collection and claims handling, joint property maintenance, or joint purchasing of public safety equipment.
Last week, McNamara announced Jobs FIRST: a three-part plan to Finally Impose Restraints on Spending and Taxes. The plan calls for a new law restricting growth in city spending, another cutting the amount of money the Mayor can spend without approval by City Council in half – from $10,000 to $5,000, and finally a new requirement that any increase in special assessments be approved by Toledo voters.
I hope some of that information will be helpful.
posted by psyche777 at 01:36 P.M. EST on Mon Oct 23, 2006 #
...discussing the need for a Full Time Economic Developer..
What would be the point? If we brought in an E.D., as soon as the guy had some recommendations that were outside what Carty thought was the way to go, he'd just fire him.
posted by billy at 01:41 P.M. EST on Mon Oct 23, 2006 #
http://glasscityjungle.blogspot.com/2006/08/on-cutting-costs-in-toledo.html
That one also has some of the specifics from August from Dave's suggestions that weren't covered in full by the one Blade article.
posted by psyche777 at 01:46 P.M. EST on Mon Oct 23, 2006 #
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061018/NEWS16/610180378/-1/NEWS
It appears the current administration recently changed their mind on the development director position:
Don Moline, assistant chief operating officer, said the administration is trying to recruit a director of development. Mr. Finkbeiner has been heading the department this year, drawing criticism from some on council who say economic development needs its own director.
posted by psyche777 at 01:51 P.M. EST on Mon Oct 23, 2006 #
I can't help but wonder if McNamara will be a puppet or clone of Wilkowski.
That is not necessarily bad by the way.
posted by Beowulf at 03:52 P.M. EST on Mon Oct 23, 2006 #
jr quotes:
Frank Szollosi said: "It's an indication that taxes are too high in Toledo."
jr quotes:
From an August 2006 Blade story: "[Carty] said the major reasons for the [population] decline are perceptions that schools are better and crime lower in the suburbs. He contended that neither is as true as people believe."
Your holding one man's word against another and construing it as fact or more right. How is Frank's opinion that taxes are too high in Toledo any more legit that Carty's opinion.
I can tell you though that my parent's and the parents of friend's that I grew up with (in Sylvania) always left us the impression that Toledo was a crime-ridden black hole with bad schools, etc. My mom wouldn't step foot in downtown Toledo until I forced her down to the Docks and shown her it's not as bad as she perceives. Do ex-Toledoan's leave Toledo because of taxes? Aren't suburban taxes much higher than Toledo's, street's and sidewalks cleaner, newer, with school's that receive better marks, safer to walk around at night, and with houses and building's that are kept up?
Also, out of my class of 200-225 (can't remember) at St. John's, I was of the 5-10 people who decided to stay in Toledo (area). EVERYONE ELSE left to go away, mostly for the fact that while growing up there was nothing exciting going on around here -- and the mindset that college's such as UT and BG are comparitive to Owens CC and aren't held in high esteem. These school's need to market themselves better.
I can't say much about Toledo's taxes because I live in Sylvania (atleast until next year after my wedding and we look for a house -- I'm 22). I know my fiance's parents situation though -- they raised my fiance in the North End her whole life and recently moved to Sylvania in the past 2 years because of the further degradation of the North End. However, their thinking of moving back to Toledo because they can't afford Sylvania's taxes.
posted by ToledoPlusPlus at 04:45 P.M. EST on Mon Oct 23, 2006 #
ToledoPlusPlus, asks:
"Aren't suburban taxes much higher than Toledo's, street's and sidewalks cleaner, newer, with school's that receive better marks, safer to walk around at night, and with houses and building's that are kept up?"
According to Carty, your description of the burbs being cleaner and safer with good schools is a misperception. So the answer to most of your question is "No." According to Carty.
As to taxes in the burbs versus Toledo, I guess you'd have to compare the amount paid to the services received.
I'm sure all communities waste tax dollars. But how does the wasteful spending in other communities compare with Toledo?
In the thread about City Council and emergency fees, ToledoPlusPlus said :
"Wow, that is absolutely unbelievable. If that is the case, City Council has stooped to a new low level. So what DO taxes go towards too? The Blade just had an article about a huge financial deficit anticipated for TPS (sounded like though it was something blown out of proportion by Sykes the Asshole), taxes obviously don't go towards the desk driving police force or the fire station. Where the hell does it go?"
If your fiance's parents are thinking about moving back to Toledo, it would be nice to have an answer to your question, right?
ToledoPlusPlus, in the thread about funding the sports arena, you said:
"I do agree that other options should be pursued before placing tax dollars on the top of the list. And I also don't think a hotel tax is very fair because the hotels aren't going to see the increased traffic due to an arena."
In the thread about funding new lights for the Anthony Wayne bridge, ToledoPlusPlus said:
"Beautification can take the form of renovating streets, street lights, bridge lights, lawncare, etc. It's the government's job to provide that infrastructure. At the same time though, I am disappointed that his focus as been solely on beautification. There needs to be a balance with that money, such as what billy said in fixing the street lights in the neighborhood, or hiring more patrol officers, more street renovation (not just pothole filling). How big is the city's government, and what areas could downsize?(serious question -- i'm in the dark on that one)."
ToledoPlusPlus, you seem to be concerned about the size of local government, the quality of city services, taxes in Toledo/Lucas County, and how those tax dollars are being spent. Good concerns.
So how could you possibly ask: "How is Frank's opinion that taxes are too high in Toledo any more legit that Carty's opinion."
Seems to me you would be agreeing with Frank. Afterall, Carty didn't say anything with his perception comment.
When considering a move, the best thing to do may be to move out of Lucas County to avoid some of these Toledo-based financial boondoggles.
posted by jr at 05:47 P.M. EST on Mon Oct 23, 2006 #
Do I agree with Frank that taxes are too high? I do agree with you on "...how those tax dollars are being spent." How taxes are being spent are more of an issue to me than how high the taxes are.
My concern with the overall post is trying to recognize the real reasons why people leave Toledo. Frank's comments don't reflect at all any of the comments I got when I presented the question to my parents and to friend's parents: "Why did you choose to live and raise your kids in Sylvania as opposed to Toledo?". High taxes aren't the reason why people leave Toledo. Finding the root reasons for people leaving, and you can better combat it with the proper solutions. If property taxes were $5 a year, my parents still said they would have rather raised us in Sylvania because they see it as safer and with better schools.
I wouldn't necessarily make a big fuss about how high the taxes are, but I'd be making a fuss at how they're being spent and find ways to use it more effectively and efficiently. That's why I really like ideasfortps.com, because it looks for ways to more effectively and efficiently run a school system.
I don't think the problem is higher taxes, but rather a quality of life issue. Carty is right on with his assessment that many suburban people perceive Toledo as he described. To some degree, those perceptions can be translated to reality but I hardly think Toledo is as bad as my parents made it out to be while growing up, which is why I frequent bars, clubs, coffee shops, and restaurants around Toledo and urge a lot of my friends and family to go to the Docks, go to a Mud Hens game, go to a concert at Headliners, Bootleggers, or the Seagate Center.
As to taxes in the burbs versus Toledo, I guess you'd have to compare the amount paid to the services received.
What services in Sylvania would require the higher taxes?
posted by ToledoPlusPlus at 11:41 P.M. EST on Mon Oct 23, 2006 #
"What services in Sylvania would require the higher taxes?"
You answered that with:
"... my parents still said they would have rather raised us in Sylvania because they see it as safer and with better schools."
From the August report card, Sylvania public schools met all 25 academic standards while TPS met 6.
Toledo contains 68% of Lucas County's population, but Toledo is home to 90% of Lucas County's registered sex offenders.
To me, those perceptions look a lot like cold, hard facts. If taxes are the same or only a little higher in the burbs, then why stay in Toledo when the reality is the burbs are safer and have better schools? Is a cheap home a reason to move to Toledo?
ToledoPlusPlus said:
"I wouldn't necessarily make a big fuss about how high the taxes are, but I'd be making a fuss at how they're being spent and find ways to use it more effectively and efficiently."
But the two go together. Maybe Toledo's taxes are high because the tax dollars are being wasted, and we still don't have enough police on the street.
posted by jr at 12:43 A.M. EST on Tue Oct 24, 2006 #
The first concept we must accept that Joe McNamara is head and shoulders above Bob McCloskey. Again considering that Joe McNamara isn't part of the 'endorsed' Democratic team of 'Carty' Finkbeiner Indeed I see no reason why McNamara shouldn't be given the chance to redeem the Irish name so flaunted, by Bob McCloskey. Indeed give the Irish the chance!
posted by jamsmitty at 12:56 A.M. EST on Tue Oct 24, 2006 #
From the August report card, Sylvania public schools met all 25 academic standards while TPS met 6.
Toledo contains 68% of Lucas County's population, but Toledo is home to 90% of Lucas County's registered sex offenders.
To me, those perceptions look a lot like cold, hard facts. If taxes are the same or only a little higher in the burbs, then why stay in Toledo when the reality is the burbs are safer and have better schools? Is a cheap home a reason to move to Toledo?
They are cold hard facts. I didn't mean to come off as myself saying they were perceptions, but whether it is a perception or a fact they both can be fixed. Lowering taxes isn't going to bring in residents, it's going to satisfy the status quo while the population continues to decline all the while not correcting the underlying problems of crime, schools, cleanliness, police/fire, etc. My overall complaint was over "Toledo shrinks 13th-fastest of U.S. cities, census says; 1.1% population drop in '05 among worst in Ohio, Frank Szollosi said: 'It's an indication that taxes are too high in Toledo.'" I hear a lot of people say that and it's just not the response you'll get when you talk to an outgoing Toledoan.
Perhaps what I'm hoping is that Carty actually recognizes his own quote as fact and start from there. Though, many of the people I know in the burb's do have misperceptions of Toledo that I try to debunkify based on my own experiences.
A great starting point for turning Toledo around are these sites like ToledoTalk, ideasfortps.com, etc. It's having these sites that allow for me personally to have these exchange of ideas and learn from other people's perspectives.
What are some of your ideas for what should be done? Maggie asked me this and I honestly thought about it for days. All I know is that taxes aren't the reason for the masses leaving Toledo. This is where I'd have to admit my shortcomings being only 22 and not a Toledo insider, as I don't know exactly how the operations are inside the police department or school system. From the outside looking in, however, I get the perception that operations are run poorly and not because of a lack of funding or too much funding but because they fail to streamline and work efficiently.
"But the two go together. Maybe Toledo's taxes are high because the tax dollars are being wasted, and we still don't have enough police on the street."
I don't see it that way for some reason. I see it as adequate funding that's being directed to the wrong areas and hence the situation that Toledo is in. Bad school system? Perhaps its because not enough of that funding goes directly to providing the necessary tools for students to succeed, but to the unnecessary number of administrators or what not (go to ideasfortps.com :)). Not enough police officers? Perhaps they are focusing too much of their efforts on fruitless operations like over the border liquor purchases or an unnecessary amount of desk patrols. Taxes don't need to be lowered, they need to be redirected to the appropriate places.
I'll end there. Sorry for the post being all over the place, I don't often have a coherent message to start off with but rather go off on tangents :).
posted by ToledoPlusPlus at 04:01 A.M. EST on Tue Oct 24, 2006 #
T++ it's a big topic!
The surrounding schools do have result scoring that leads people to believe that they would get a better education for their children OUT of Toledo. I think that needs to and can change for Toledo. Sadly this biggest stumbling block has been a select number of school board members who engage in behavior that we would NOT accept in our classrooms out of 7 year old children. And possibly the ones who do have an idea on how to get us on a corrective course cannot be heard. No more Mr. Nice Guy - that's what I would say to Darlene Fisher and Robert Torres. It's time for people to either become a part of the solution or escort them from the room until such a time as they can control themselves enough to BE in a boardroom.
The school board and adminstration, as a whole, would do well to focus on the delivery of education directly to the students.
The CITY of Toledo would do well if the adminstration would get hyper focused on the delivery of quality city services. Everything else could be addressed after that is accomplished. Businesses would come to Toledo, and have historically, with quality services and reasonable tax liability.
What I see the city doing is akin to painting a house that is on fire. Maybe it's just me - but I'd think putting the fire out should be the primary focus. People do consider Toledo's crime rate as the top or one of the top reasons for leaving the city. I can state that moving out of Toledo is officially under consideration at my house for these reasons:
1. We weren't able to navigate the school system and use the public schools. I'm doing what I can think of to get that turned around - but I wonder if it is having any effect. That creates tuition at my house. I believe my job to parent my kids is my highest priority. I took my kids out of the schools, but I remember what my Dad taught me. Nobody gets left behind. But economically, I would be better off out of Toledo.
2. The crime situation is indeed out of control. We do have gangs in Toledo. I've heard dialogue about how to address creating an idea of how to approach the acknowledgement of their presence in the city. Again, painting a house that is on fire. They're here. They bring drug, prositution and theft crimes. They are repeat offenders and a small population of the city. Remove them from the streets and crime drops dramatically. Not an opinion - proven fact in many cities over many years. It isn't getting done. On this vital topic, my family would be safer if I move out of Toledo.
3. Taxes, I pay a higher property tax, income tax and sales tax because I live in Toledo. Fiscally, my family would be better off if I move out of Toledo.
4. Property values, the bulk of my families financial worth is wrapped up in the purchase of our home. According the the last tax valuation statement I received from the city - I lost $17,000.00 in value in three years. This means that in roughly 26 years, at this rate -= my real estate investment (according to the city) will have a value of $0.00. However I would not pay off this house until 2033. How is this a responsible choice for the head of a family? How is it a responsible situation for a business developer to bring their employees and families, consciously, into the above situations? It isn't right and that's why we have business looking at other areas when Toledo does have so much to offer.
Do you think as the head of my family, in light of these facts, that I can build a case for staying IN Toledo?
I can't build a logical argument for staying in Toledo - I can only tell you that when I came here I loved the city, the history and most of all the people here. I know that every one person who does leave means one less vote for change. One less point of accountability for the people who ARE being paid to address the delivery of services to handle the above problems - and frankly are not getting the job done.
So if this McNamara guy is talking about fiscal restraint and lower taxes (at my house we call it getting by on less) then I'm going to listen to it.
posted by katie82640 at 09:59 A.M. EST on Tue Oct 24, 2006 #
Katie - the one thing folks sometimes overlook (or don't realize) is that for every dollar of property taxes they pay, a very small percentage of that comes back into the city to pay for the necessary services. In a normal world, it would stand to reason that where you live and pay your taxes is where the money is allocated. Not so.
Just because your address is in Toledo and your taxes have a Toledo address on them, that check you write does not all wind up in the coffers of city government.
Many services are shared with the county. Your taxes are paid to the Lucas County Auditor. Not the City of Toledo Dept. of Taxation. It's confusing, but it's the way it is.
As for not building a logical argument for staying in Toledo? On one hand I can understand that, but on the other you say that for every person that leaves there is one less vote that demands accountability. Personally, I believe you are too much of a fighter to abandon the match. And just remember - you are part of a larger picture. ;)
Joe McNamara (aside from being The Blade's 'chosen' one) is bright, intelligent, intuitive and holds a vested interest in our city. He's got the interest of Toledo in his heart from conversations I've had with him. He not only has ideas, but he has formulated plans to make those ideas work. That's more than I can say for most. The ideas are easy, the plans for implementation are more difficult - getting it done without a fight is going to be impossible.
I'm staying put. Toledo is home. It will remain home. I will not be run out of my home by politicians, thugs, dopers, or wannabes. They can all cash their reality checks 'cause this resident isn't budging. I tell every politician I talk to that when they make that promise to have an open door, an available ear, a true listening interest.....that they can expect to see lots of me. And that when they see me they better be ready to live up to what they promised in order to get that office. If not - then the next go round I will do all I can to change the name on their office door.
If they want my vote and my trust, then they should live up to what they promise and quit trying to pump sunshine through a drinking straw. It's up to ALL of us to hold ALL politicians accountable to their bosses - and that would be US.
posted by DoknowDocare at 10:52 A.M. EST on Tue Oct 24, 2006 #
You are right about the tax dollars. I have been having a dialogue with someone who I would like to bring to Toledo to work in my new business venture. The tax question has come up there and now here so I did get a break down from a very nice man.
Our property taxes are assessed by the county and in Toledo the breakdown is this:
63.7% of property tax goes to Toledo City Schools
24.7% goes to County wide agencies, the zoo, childrens' services etc.
8.1% goes to the City of Toledo for the city fund and services pensions.
3.3% goes to TARTA
Where I live I also found that my assessments (per half) are currently:
Mosquito spraying, street services, lights and tree maintenance.
So 28% goes to the county and the balance goes to Toledo.
You are right that I'm a fighter - I'm also getting tired. But not ready to give up.
We are the employers of the politicians. What's the key to getting control and accountability?
posted by katie82640 at 11:34 A.M. EST on Tue Oct 24, 2006 #
The first concept we must accept that Joe McNamara is head and shoulders above Bob McCloskey. Again considering that Joe McNamara isn't part of the 'endorsed' Democratic team of 'Carty' Finkbeiner Indeed I see no reason why McNamara shouldn't be given the chance to redeem the Irish name so flaunted, by Bob McCloskey. Indeed give the Irish the chance!
I'm irish and I don't see the Irish name as being needed redeeming because I think they're two separate things.
Don't be fooled by the A vs B team rhetoric. If we wouldn't have been shown McCloskey's schemes and there was no opposing democratic candidate they'd still be backing McCloskey and turning a blind eye to his discretions.
posted by MikeyA at 12:59 P.M. EST on Tue Oct 24, 2006 #
Hmmm, redeem the Irish name, huh? If that is the case, then LC Dem Chairman John Irish should be the councilman and the next mayor. His capo Dom can be the trash man.
posted by Beowulf at 06:07 A.M. EST on Thu Oct 26, 2006 #
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