Well the defense made it easy for them with a no witness defense :).
posted by ToledoPlusPlus at 02:20 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 08, 2006 #
Oh if they come back with a guilty verdict today it'll be nuts and sprinkles on the day...
I feel like GUINNESS TONIGHT!
posted by anonymouscoward at 02:35 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 08, 2006 #
If I remember correctly it was a 53 count indictment. If the jury spends 10 minutes per count and breaks for a meal or two I'd say there will be a verdict tomorrow before supper time. What I'm really curious about is how much time he will spend "Dancing with Bubba" in the State Pen.
posted by holland at 02:37 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 08, 2006 #
What I'm really curious about is how much time he will spend "Dancing with Bubba" in the State Pen.
Why? He gets 27 months in Federal Pound-Me-In-The-Ass Prison first. Are you in on the pool for smokes and stuff for his cellmate/blockmates?
posted by anonymouscoward at 03:23 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 08, 2006 #
I dont think you can smoke in prisons anymore, can you?
posted by starling02 at 06:42 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 08, 2006 #
Nope, I guess it's because prisons are supposed to make you want to die but without actually doing it.
posted by MikeyA at 08:04 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 08, 2006 #
anonymouscoward - I'm thinking of wifey remaining wife and true to hubby for x number of years while he is in the slammer. I don't think she will. Right now I think both of them are in deep denial. Just wait until he trades the Mephistos for keds with no laces and she faces spending whats left of female prime time alone.
posted by holland at 10:19 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 08, 2006 #
Can't help but wonder if he'll get on a boat and disappear if a guilty verdict comes in.
Extradition laws are tough in Brazil, I hear...
posted by historymike at 10:56 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 08, 2006 #
The Blade said Noe would go into custody - to prison for his first sentence immediately after the verdict I think. So much for him hopping a boat to Bermuda. Unless he skips the country before the verdict comes in. My guess is he has big money set aside in off shore accounts for the day he gets out, and bernie knows it's there. If she stands by her man - they'll go off into the sunset together and live on hidden cash. Just a guess, but I've been wrong before. I hope she sticks by his side - they deserve each other. I kind of wonder though - it was when bernie turned on Joe Kidd first that got the investigation going on her husband, that set the ball rolling, that will put his behind behind bars. Sometimes I wonder if she hadn't set him up - but that's too mean and unlikely to consider.
posted by starling02 at 11:28 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 08, 2006 #
Oh come on......Noe and his defense team got exactly what they wanted. A change in venue. This way he can appeal and they'll go to the next level of our illustrious judicial system.
posted by unknowncomment at 05:55 A.M. EST on Thu Nov 09, 2006 #
Argentina is a country you can get lost in - however probably a little too dangerous for the Mrs.' tastes.
posted by holland at 08:39 A.M. EST on Thu Nov 09, 2006 #
Well the no-witness defense caught my attention. From a business perspective - people do an awful lot of unusual (trying not to say stupid - but stupid) things with investment funds between the investment and the return.
The fact that the prosecution would not allow the value of the coin fund currently in as evidence tells me that they are worried also.
If you invest x amount of dollars and anticipate a specific return on that investment - and you DO receive that return (or more as appears may be the case here) then everything that happened between the investment and the return - or in this case the current value of the investment - is operating procedure. And that is as good or as bad as the investment handler.
From where I sit the prosecution may be in trouble if they are not able to prove that the investment is worth less than was promised.
And without allowing IN the current value of the investment - how could they do that?
posted by katie82640 at 10:50 A.M. EST on Thu Nov 09, 2006 #
Stuff you just might not see in the Blade:
At first I thought that the jury staying out a day, now into the second day of deliberations was bad for the prosecution (sound guilty verdicts are said to come back fairly quickly, whereas juries with doubts and alot of questions take longer and often return less than a guilty decision) but there are more than 40 (I had heard 53 total) separate charges to be considered, with more than 50 pages of jury instructions. So I'm not sure the length of the deliberations are a clear indicator they're having trouble reaching a decision. It might just be that the instructions are so wieldy and the issues number so many that it will take additional time.
1. Defense closing: "When it was the defense’s turn, attorney William Wilkinson reiterated his claim that Noe’s contract with the state agency allowed him to use the money as he wanted.
Noe could “borrow money effectively from himself and determine the terms on which he would borrow. He was allowed to do that,” Wilkinson said. He acknowledged that Noe
didn’t keep good records, possibly in violation of the contract, but Wilkinson said that wasn’t an issue for the jurors to consider. "
2. ABC wrapup/summary/timeline
posted by katie82640 at 12:02 P.M. EST on Thu Nov 09, 2006 #
It's been my general understanding that the handling of public funds is covered under various state and/or federal laws that trump the details of the contract. In short, Noe's failure to keep adequate records is a violation of law, regardless of what the contract said. Also, when handling public funds, you are NEVER in the position to "borrow from yourself", since those funds are not ever yours due to the accounting requirement I just talked about.
Combine this violation of law with the missing millions, and you have a clear case of theft that goes beyond reasonable doubt: Tom Noe is a thief.
Hopefully the jury didn't buy Wilkinson's propaganda.
posted by GuestZero at 05:20 A.M. EST on Fri Nov 10, 2006 #
We'll see. Wouldn't it be interesting to read that contract and do you think we'll ever be able to do so?
These are the two things that are bugging me and I'm sure glad I'm not on the jury.
1. The defense says that the contract allowed for the borrowing. (I can't imagine that but I can't see the contract either. This must be a DOOZY of a contract if that's accurate)
2. How can the prosecution say that 2m is missing if they won't produce what the investment is worth now? In that - what if the investment is currently worth 8, 10 or 15 million more than the original investment? How is the jury supposed to say that the fund is SHORT 2m if they aren't told what the value OF the fund is?
If Noe gets off - I think it'll be because of those two things.
If he gets convicted I wonder if the unwillingness to address the value of the coin fund will be cause for appeal? Need a legal eagle to address that. But if that's an 'error' it could tie this thing up a long time.
posted by katie82640 at 10:14 A.M. EST on Fri Nov 10, 2006 #
a few things to think about: whatever the coin fund is worth today does not reflect on the fact that money was taken and misused. Tom probably told bernie "if you leave me i will rat on you". I wonder how bernies kids feel about their step dad and changing their names, now that the noe name is mud and all it can do for them is get them a visitors pass to whatever prison he goes to. Oh yea one other thing that was hinted at in the trial. no income tax was paid on all that money "he earned" so you think the IRS is eagerly waiting for the verdict? bernie will not be able to use the "I did not know excuse" if she signed the 1040 she is guilty and then florida can not protect her or her house
posted by so_you_think at 10:34 A.M. EST on Fri Nov 10, 2006 #
If Mr. Noe is so confident that his long-time friend and confidante, Mr. Lapointe, was lying on the witness stand, then why didn't Noe take the witness stand and tell "the truth" himself, under oath? Instead, he relied on his attorneys to cast that shadow of a doubt on the jury by implying that it is Mr. Lapointe's word against Tom's. No problem; that's what you get when you can afford millions for a defense team (I reference the 1.9 million-dollar lien on the Florida house, by the Noes' own admission).
Truth is, there are people who know the truth. And they took the witness stand for the prosecution, with nothing to be gained by telling anything less than the truth. Their reward, in fact, was a level of public exposure that is nothing but embarrassment in having been associated with this guy at any level.
Noe's forte for a long time has been the talent for creating spin. He has been known to pride himself in making verbal contacts, as opposed to written communications (leave no trail). I don't believe a word that comes out of his mouth or his attorneys'.
It would be a real injustice to the State of Ohio if this jury finds him not guilty on these charges, but the sad fact is, his attorneys' spin may have worked on the jury. That remains to be seen.
Bottom line is, the truth is the truth. Noe will have to live with the verdict, Guilty or Not Guilty, because he KNOWS what he did.
Denial is an amazing sedative that sometimes never wears off.
posted by crazytimes at 12:38 P.M. EST on Fri Nov 10, 2006 #
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