What I've found in life is that you get back what you give. In reading your RANT, YOU present yourself to be quite arrogant, impatient and rude." I actually told the REPRESENTATIVE "thankyou, for your efficient, polite manner...seems CUSTOMER SERVICE is rude and impatient these days".
Automated phone systems although sometimes, irritating, are designed to improve efficiency and lower costs routing calls to the appropriate department.
I work in the health insurance industry and I know that our reps are taking call after call all day long. They don't need public relations training, it's usually just job training. Because of the potential pay scale, new people are continually moving in and out of these positions. The good ones usually get promoted to supervisors. So when you find yourself working with someone who offers no help it's probably because they don't know how to solve your problem. Kindly ask to speak to a supvisor.
From your other posts on ToledoTalk you seem to be a professional, you should put yourself in their shoes for once. CSR's aren't paid on commission, they don't get bonuses to kiss up to you. Generally they do the best the can with the information they have.
posted by fish4 at 11:22 A.M. EST on Mon Apr 30, 2007 #
There are times I have honestly believed I am speaking a foreign language of some kind not understandable to anyone
Maybe because you are to them :) a lot of CSR phone banks are in India.
Chalk one up for the global economy.
I can't get my computer fixed, but the company sure can pay some poor guy in India $1 a day to follow a script.
From my own experience, I use to do tech support for an unnamed major computer maker. I didnt actually work for them, but a phone bank. Out of the 40 or so people that was in my 1-week computer crash course I was the only one with actual computer knowledge.
Most of them were from a retail credit card services project that had been canceled. The way we were taught, we weren't getting paid to actually help people. But to keep calls under 5 minutes and get the customer off the phone as quickly as possible. Guessing they were paid per completed call rather than, actually helping people.
Another thing is quality of service. Even if we knew how to fix the problem we couldn't if it meant going outside the boundaries of the pre-scripted fill in the blanks system that was in place. One time I was on the phone with an elderly lady for over 30minutes, and was able to actually get her computer back up and running. I was in trouble for it.
So next time you are asked if you want to pay that extra couple hundred for the 5year phone customer service plan, ask who actually does the service. If it's an actual person working for the company who knows what he's doing, or just some random person in a call center with no real training and follows a script.
It's hard to not be bitter when you've been on both sides of the problem.
posted by jshriver at 12:12 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 30, 2007 #
-fish4-You got me! I totally understand point made! CUSTOMER REP., may very well make same evaluation of me! As a one who "RANTS" and is "impatient and RUDE"!
With that...thanks for the advice as to asking to speak with a Supervisor.
-jshriver-My opinion, helping the lady with her computer problem should be comended as showing you do truly care for the customer NOT reprimended!
Thanks, for sharing the 5 minute limit allowed with customers to remedy a situation, I never knew this!
posted by MARIELORA at 01:08 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 30, 2007 #
I just don't argue with them Marie. I always introduce myself and ask for their name. Right at the beginning of the call. I state why I called, and most of them time they don't respond to that - so I will just restate my reason for calling.
Most of the time that works ok. Sometimes it doesn't work - and if you get an employee who won't identify themselves (some co's give out numbers and some use just first names but they all use an identifier) I know right up front that this person may not intend to be helpful.
But I agree, once you start to get aggravated just remember you don't have to argue - just ask for the supervisor, if that fails, hang up and call back in.
posted by katie82640 at 01:30 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 30, 2007 #
Some of you may not be aware of what call center work is like...
Generally, the representatives are being hammered on a variety of statistics (how long their average handle time is, how many inquiries have to be left open for additional review vs. being able to be closed at the end of the initial call, how many calls per day they handle, etc.).
The person you're speaking with is almost literally chained to their desk (by the headset - even if they have a handsfree headset, they still have to be near their desk). Most likely, they get a set amount of discretionary time to use the restroom per day - typically around 10 total for the whole day. If you have to pee more than twice in a full day's shift (or, god forbid, have to go #2), then you'll be reprimanded. If you try to be genuinely helpful and as a result your average call time goes up, you'll be put on some sort of performance improvement plan. You end up talking to anywhere from 80-100 people or more in a day, so tell me how much in depth time do you think you get to help those people? Not much!
The working conditions are a large part of the reason why good representatives leave the jobs quickly, and there is such a high turnover. What adult wants to be disciplined at work b/c they ended up spending a total of 11 minutes walking to/from and sitting on the potty per day, vs. the allotted 10 minutes per day? No thanks!
I did work in a call center for a little while when I was re-entering the workforce after taking time off to have my kids. (Sometimes you have to start lower and work your way back up...) I was good at my job...from the customer's perspective. I have plenty of background knowledge in the area (due to my prior work history), I genuinely enjoy helping people...I can't even tell you the number of people every day who thanked me for finally explaining things to them in a way that they could understand, or for finally resolving a problem that they had already made multiple calls about. That part of the job was very satisfying. However, being hounded about average call time or the number of calls you were able to crank out a day was ridiculous. Of course I was averaging 4 minutes per call while Jane Doe in the next cubicle was averaging 2 1/2 minutes per call. I was actually solving problems, not just pushing the issue off for the person to call back again later! I got the hell out of there and never looked back - I have a college degree and don't need a manager monitoring my potty time down to the exact second. (I'm not kidding - I got a daily report which showed to the second how long I was logged off the phone per day for bathroom purposes.)
Anyhow, I'm not saying that this justifies a representative being blatantly rude to you. However, knowing the sweatshop like conditions they work under might help you at least understand why you don't always get the service you want. (Some of the comments on this blog will give you a little more insight into call center work too... http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2004/01/20/unfairness ) Its not your fault, and its not usually the representative's fault either. Its the whole concept of call centers in general, and they way that they are run.
posted by mom2 at 02:29 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 30, 2007 #
Greetings -katie-! Thanks for the helpful hint of asking for a name!
I would like to make comment to statement by -fish4 and -jshriver- stating Public Relations Classes is not needed...Job Training is...I want you to know I do agree to an extent that Job Training is often at a minimum...yet, with the following article I have copied and pasting states Public Relations Classes are needed across the board...that...we the customer are venting our likes, dislikes...on venues as such i.e. "Toledo Talk".
To everyone...I am copying and pasting the following regarding "Public Relations Classes" and how badly it is needed thoughout the board. With that to relay on...classes were actually given at Jeep to teach the employees better communication skills to become more effective in a non negative manner with co workers and management.
Making the Business Case for a Social Media Strategy
There has been a revolutionary shift in the PR world. PR is no longer a one way communication channel. People talk back to brands and companies on blogs, discussion boards, and an ever-evolving array of social media formats. The message you intend to send may not be the same the consumer takes away after absorbing the spectrum of perspectives created online. Public relations professionals need to include these social networks in their communications plans. But often, senior management must still be convinced.
This whitepaper will demonstrate how the growth of social media impacts public relations and will show how listening directly to these online conversations can help you measure results, identify looming threats, and make your message more effective.
You will be armed with the information you need to convince your organization that they should begin tracking these conversations:
How widespread is the social media phenomenon? How will it evolve in the future?
How does social media impact public relations activities?
What new tools & techniques are there to effectively understand and measure how social media affects your company’s brands, products, and reputation?
Examples of how companies are using social media to deliver messages more effectively and to counter negative coverage.
posted by MARIELORA at 02:30 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 30, 2007 #
-jshriver-My opinion, helping the lady with her computer problem should be comended as showing you do truly care for the customer NOT reprimended!
Trust me, that is not what happens. If you take too long on a call...even if you end up fixing something that has been a chronic problem for a customer...you will be reprimanded. Its how call centers work.
That's why the good representatives (from the customer's perspective) leave call center work quickly and never look back. You get in too much trouble for actually taking the time to fix problems.
posted by mom2 at 02:32 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 30, 2007 #
-mom2-thanks for your feedback! It's good for me to learn the REPRESENTATIVES side!
posted by MARIELORA at 02:37 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 30, 2007 #
knowing the sweatshop like conditions they work under
mom2 I feel your pain. I did it for about 8 months, had a couple grey hairs and left. I wouldn't wish that kind of work on anyone. So when I call up these places I try to be as open minded and give compliments whenever possible, because I know I'm caller 85 for the day.
posted by jshriver at 03:06 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 30, 2007 #
mom2-thanks for your feedback! It's good for me to learn the REPRESENTATIVES side!
mom2 I feel your pain. I did it for about 8 months, had a couple grey hairs and left. I wouldn't wish that kind of work on anyone.
Absolutely. I don't have specific dates/citations to back it up, but I would absolutely not be surprised to find out that the "decline in customer service" that many Americans gripe about corresponds directly with the advent of the "high volume call center."
When you're talking with 80-100 people in an 8 hour shift, that's simply not enough time to really analyze the customer's needs! Certainly many people do have situations that can be resolved in under 2 minutes (requesting a duplicate copy of a bill, calling to change an address, etc.). However, people who are truly having problems and truly need service, also need the full time and attention of the person at the other end of the phone. The representative doesn't need to see a call timer ticking away showing how long they have been talking with this person (yes, they do have one either on their computer screen or somewhere on their desk/phone).
I met many very nice, bright people during my time in a call center - people who truly wanted to help others. But, their biggest gripe was feeling that their hands were tied b/c of call center management policies. (It wasn't something unique to our call center either, they all have similar rules.) Even more frustrating is the fact that you're the one on the front lines taking the brunt of the criticism for policies that you have no control over...and management sets those policies knowing full well that they aren't going to be the ones who have to listen to the angry folks.
(I hate to keep coming back to the bathroom time issue, but that's one of the things that drove me craziest as a generally responsible adult - getting monitored on my potty time usage. Anyhow, I didn't typically have a problem staying within the allotted time per day...had to make sure I didn't drink too much water at lunch, that's for sure, but I typically averaged about 6 1/2 minutes per day out of the allotted 10. Heaven help me if I had done that job while I was pregnant though...eek! Also, I had a co-worker who was prescribed a blood pressure medication. One of the side effects was increased frequency of urination. She wouldn't take the medication. It absolutely infuriated me that she had to make that decision...god forbid she need to take 12 minutes per day to walk to/from the bathroom and urinate instead of 10. But, she felt like she couldn't take the risk of getting in trouble for bathroom time. She was approaching the age where she could retire...didn't feel that she could have found another job with a comparable salary at her age if she were terminated, especially since she didn't have a college education...even though she had 20+ years of experience and was very knowledgable.)
posted by mom2 at 03:37 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 30, 2007 #
Companies that do the outsourced work for technical support are usually paid by the call. So getting the customer off the phone quickly is more money. And it is very true about getting reprimanded for long call times and getting a customers issue resolved. Call centers are about the call volume not the satisfied customer.
posted by ToledoLatina at 04:50 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 30, 2007 #
The call center operators are paid either by the call (like Latina explained), minute, number of customers, block of time, etc. It all depends. I was in the situation of operating a help desk before and outsourcing the services. It is a fine line you have to walk. Scheduling has to be perfect because if you miss any of the service levels in the contracts, you will be out thousands of dollars. This comes into play with talk time, hold times, queue times, dropped call ratios (people that hang up before talking to a human), resolution rates, etc.
Smaller operations, versus the large operators like Client Logic and Convergys, have an easier time I think blending a good work environment with the requirements of the contracts. However, if there is any spike in traffic that the customer and the call center isn't ready for - it can be a nightmare.
The call center industry is a fairly easy one to grasp, but one that can really turn into a nightmare fast. With the big centers...its about keeping the short calls short and getting people off the phone. With the smaller centers you may get away with seeing a more human side to customer service.
posted by JustaSooner at 06:10 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 30, 2007 #
You know there is a registry where you can go and check a company out BEFORE you buy their stuff.
www.ripoffreport.com
I use it pretty religiously and it has always been right.
posted by katie82640 at 08:58 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 30, 2007 #
Having installed call centers, managed call centers, and even been a lowly technician answering calls, I have several opinions on this.
1) Ask for a name - many call centers will use a fictitious name and number and you will never get back to the original person. So even getting a name is not of value.
2) Scripts - many companies, for various reasons, do have detailed scripts where the agent needs to follow. These scripts are usually there to handle the 80-90% of all calls that are minor / mundane. Now most of these are handled on the web (things like change of address, request a receipt, etc.)
3) We as consumers are as responsible for the migration to call center customer service as are the companies. People will not pay a premium for human customer service. One of the great killers of AT&T as a phone company was they had live people handling the phone at 12 cents a minute per call, the general public though thought it was a better deal to buy for 8 cents a minute from a competitor without customer service or automated service. Since people on average call the phone company only once every 3 years - the economics forced out the high cost of the call center.
4) Many companies have tiered levels of service tier 1, 2, 3 based on the complexity of the question. You cannot get to tier 3 until you pass tier 1 and 2, yes very very frustrating, but tier 3 is more expensive help.
5) I have actually sat through phone IVR sales presentations where a sales person pitches how they can make it so a low value customer never talks to the agent. Studies show it costs more to service this customer, than to loose it. I don't think its right, but our business is run by people with a short term financial focus only. And Wall Street rewards such.
6) A call center rep job is monitored very closely as it can be. Not only is time online/offline measured and codes to check out (i.e. potty, lunch, etc) but the calls can also be monitored for quality control. A person, somewhere in the corporate sphere, can do a random check of the conversation to monitor the conversation, the keystrokes used in the application, even the up sell requirements before closing a call. Not for the faint of heart, a reason while so many agents don't care.
7) Call centers for sales are more responsive than care centers.
8) Call centers are becoming a thing of the past and more self-service web portals are replacing them. How often do you see 800 numbers posted on ads, vs. how many ads have urls? Also, how many hold messages say, you can do this on the web if you go to www.xxx.com?
Finally, unless you are a high profit customer, your customer service experience will continue to be handled in a "groundling" way. After all, would you pay a person $8 an hour to spend 20 minutes on a call with a customer that generated $2 profit on the item purchased? Not saying its right or wrong, but it is a matter of value. And if the revenue is already booked, service to you is a cost. And on a final note, technology is driving even more self service and unavailability to a disgruntled purple haired call center rep.
Dave
posted by davldavis at 09:15 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 30, 2007 #
F**k call centers. After working for several years at The Great God Convergys, it soured me on the human race (and the 'new workplace') forever. Actually altered my personality. I used to be outgoing and gregarious. Worst white-collar job I ever had, bar none. It was the height of insanity. Whenever I think about it, I thank God I'm retired, not that othwer places are much better. The Red Cross is another fine example of an organization that's badly f***ked up. And the people at the top make far too much money.
posted by Darkseid at 09:56 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 30, 2007 #
Amazingly, I've never had a bit of a problem with S.S. in fact, I'd venture to say they're one of the VERY FEW that actually help people. For one thing, they all speak good english. 8^D
posted by Darkseid at 09:59 P.M. EST on Mon Apr 30, 2007 #
Whenever I find myself having to deal with an off shore call center I always ask for a native English speaker. Sometimes I get transfered to a second off shore person before they finally transfer me back to the US and a native English speaker. I'm not rude or complaining, I just politely insist. So far it has worked every time, although I have had to repeat a couple of requests on occaision. The US CSR's seem less harried and much more informed. I began doing this because of the worst time I ever had that was with a dental insurance question. Try understanding dental/medical procedures and coding with someone who has a thick Indian accent. We were totally unable to communicate. Now I don't even try. I just get someone who can REALLY speak understandable English. While I'm at it I will not converse with someone on the phone who is audibly chewing gum. That actually happened. I hung up. My rudest experience all time ever? The Ohio Department of Commerce Division of Financial Institutions. I won't bore with details, but at the conclusion I wanted to drive to Columbus and strangle the guy.
posted by holland at 01:32 A.M. EST on Tue May 01, 2007 #
"[W]ould you pay a person $8 an hour to spend 20 minutes on a call with a customer that generated $2 profit on the item purchased? Not saying its right or wrong, but it is a matter of value. And if the revenue is already booked, service to you is a cost."
Dave, nothing is more costly than landing a customer, then losing him, then having him think and speak badly of your company thereafter. Keeping customers happy is not an expense; it's an INVESTMENT.
At any rate, we have so many companies abusing their customers that there is a great opportunity for those who deliver considered customer service. I heard a friend call these large companies "dinosaurs" recently. They're already obsolete in how they treat people, and are simply too large to have dropped dead yet. But they will. You can't keep abusing customers and survive into the medium term, much less the long term. Even before the dinosaur falls to the earth for the last time, all manner of predators are picking away at it.
Not to pick on you, Dave, but the rest of your posting shows the utter complacency extant in the world of customer service. You spoke about "fictitious" without acknowledging that it's pure LYING. You spoke several times about "low-value customer". I mean, really, no company that wants to survive should let you anywhere near a customer with an attitude like that. The rest of us have excessively tolerated corporate structures that let your kind of attitude spread and mature.
In case you're interested, I've been performing customer service for over 20 years and in many ways (in person, in the field, on the phone, in repair depots, etc.). By the time anti-customer sentiment becomes pervasive, the company is in serious trouble. Don't help the matter along by holding customers in contempt.
Myself, I love customers. Without them, I'd have no job, no career, and we'd all be in serious trouble from a lack of business enterprise. One day, I may spend personal hours fixing a customer problem; the next day, that customer may be keeping my local power plant running so I can use this computer. It's all the circle of life. We're all in this together.
posted by GuestZero at 06:06 A.M. EST on Tue May 01, 2007 #
t's all the circle of life. We're all in this together.
That is very profound. I really enjoyed your post.
posted by jshriver at 09:17 A.M. EST on Tue May 01, 2007 #
Myself, I love customers. Without them, I'd have no job, no career, and we'd all be in serious trouble from a lack of business enterprise. One day, I may spend personal hours fixing a customer problem; the next day, that customer may be keeping my local power plant running so I can use this computer. It's all the circle of life. We're all in this together.
Bravo! GuestZero, WELL SAID...thankyou!
posted by MARIELORA at 11:23 A.M. EST on Tue May 01, 2007 #
GZ it must be the warm air bringing out your optomistic side. Nice to see it!
posted by fish4 at 11:38 A.M. EST on Tue May 01, 2007 #
As an aside ... .
I like to let companies know when I've been particularly pleased with their customer service, and I've been known to write letters to corporate offices stating just that. I think it's important to do this once in a while, and let the bigwigs know that, hey, I'm going to stay with your company because of the courtesy I was shown by your CSR.
My letter by itself probably doesn't mean much, but if more people did this and companies were receiving these sorts of "thank you" letters regularly, I feel it would be an incentive for more company-wide customer-friendly policies. It's human nature to be motivated by past successes; and businesses, after all, are ultimately run by people.
So I suggest that when you DO get a particularly good customer service rep on the phone, take five minutes and send a letter or e-mail letting the company know.
posted by jmleong at 12:32 P.M. EST on Tue May 01, 2007 #
jmleong: that letter is worth gold to a CSR. Granted saying "Thanks you, and you did a great job" is nice emotionally, and if a QA person is listening in also possibly good. But things said are only good for the moment, since the boss on top will forget it.
If someone writes a letter it goes in the CSR's file, and that looks good down the road for job placement or possibly getting that extra 5min break, or closer parking. Whatever the benefit, at least it's something.
In the time I did that kind of work I never had a single letter but a several thank yous, but nothing was ever put in my file showing it.
So now I write letters to.
posted by jshriver at 12:55 P.M. EST on Tue May 01, 2007 #
-jmlelong-I will defintly begin writing emails to the companies that have provided me with good Customer Service.
To all Posters on Topic:
I will close with...many thanks to all of you for your input on subject matter; I have learned through all your comments companies are the culprit...the one to blame for poor Customer Service Representatives; I never knew of a 5 minute limit to calls, I never knew there were companies out there that did not care if customer's problem were resolved or not...that it was all about call volume! I never knew Customer Service Rep's., were NOT trained to know where to transfer call for what problem. Not only the companies with excellent Customer Service but, these companies too, deserve an email...not with the goal to hurt the Customer Service Rep., but to ask the company if there is any change upper management can make inorder to have an efficient Customer Service Department!
With all of that...IF...I should encounter one that is RUDE, at a lost to my question, problem...I will insist on speaking to a Supervisor.
Thanks for all your feedback...I have learned greatly from it!
posted by MARIELORA at 07:20 P.M. EST on Tue May 01, 2007 #
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