New version of Toledo Talk


    November 11, 2005

Bob Frantz? - I was just told that Fred LeFebvre is going to do the morning show and that Brian Wilson is doing afternoons. Bob has been removed from the website...Anybody hear what happened?
posted by psyche777 to media at 6:04 P.M. EST     (93 Comments)


Comments ...


I didn't hear anything, but radio is a fickle industry.

If you bring in the numbers, they love you. Have a bad quarter, and you are in trouble.

Two straight quarters with unsatisfactory numbers and you are cooked.

posted by historymike at 06:24 P.M. EST on Fri Nov 11, 2005     #



Obviously it wasn't expected, I didn't listen that often but Miguel's pretty ticked off about it. He listened almost every morning.
posted by psyche777 at 06:30 P.M. EST on Fri Nov 11, 2005     #



Bob sucked. if he is gone its no loss. he thought he was funny and a brilliant debater. i find WSPD'S format tiresome. the constant news weather and sport short segments interupt any type of meaningful discussion.
posted by Angrysage at 08:57 P.M. EST on Fri Nov 11, 2005     #



Info on Brian Wilson:

http://www.radioandrecords.com/Newsroom/2005_11_03/wspdtoledo.asp

Can't find anything on Frantz

posted by lloyd at 09:31 P.M. EST on Fri Nov 11, 2005     #



psyche, i have no idea who Miguel is - but i am with him. :(
posted by alexandra at 09:45 P.M. EST on Fri Nov 11, 2005     #



I stopped listening to Bob a while ago unless I knew someone special (like Mike) was going to be on. However, there are alot of people who did enjoy him. (like my husband) I did have some fun on his blog and I also had some fun writing about him. It won't be the same without him to pick on. Hopefully he'll still blog wherever he ends up. I personally think radio stations should be a bit more upfront about personnel changes rather than just delete the person from the front page.

:-)

posted by psyche777 at 09:47 P.M. EST on Fri Nov 11, 2005     #



lol - sorry alexandra, I don't write about him often so you'd have no way of knowing. Miguel would be the republican I'm married to...

:-)

posted by psyche777 at 09:48 P.M. EST on Fri Nov 11, 2005     #



how funny and cute! I bet you both make a cute couple and balance each other out!
posted by alexandra at 09:51 P.M. EST on Fri Nov 11, 2005     #



It makes for never a dull moment, not that having five kids there could be a dull moment anyway. He is out numbered though not only in females but non-republicans.

He reads my blog every day, doesn't comment there often but tells me if he agrees or disagrees... If he agrees with me he feels it's because he's influenced me. I loved him enough to sit thru Glenn Beck's whole Ice show (shudder)

:-)

posted by psyche777 at 09:57 P.M. EST on Fri Nov 11, 2005     #



I missed the ice show.. darn it... ;)
posted by alexandra at 10:05 P.M. EST on Fri Nov 11, 2005     #



Too bad I didn't know you then, I would have happily let you go in my place.

:-)

posted by psyche777 at 10:10 P.M. EST on Fri Nov 11, 2005     #



I noticed Bob's absence on the web site, too. I thought maybe they gave him a different position so I tried his email. So far (over 3 hours) it hasn't bounced back as a bad address.

I didn't always agree with Bob, but he had his moments where he was enlightening. :)

It's just not right to have someone disappear into thin air. Especially when it's such a public figure.

posted by DoknowDocare at 10:20 P.M. EST on Fri Nov 11, 2005     #



Re: Bob

Per Fred, its both a personal and a personnel situation and he's not allowed to comment on it. Guess we'll have to wait for the Blade to locate Bob...lol

posted by luvcdrcrk at 10:22 P.M. EST on Fri Nov 11, 2005     #



Per the FrantzRants blog site - here is the scoop.

http://frantzrantz.typepad.com/my_weblog/

posted by DoknowDocare at 10:27 P.M. EST on Fri Nov 11, 2005     #



Thanks do, I checked there a few times earlier but there was nothing.

:-)

posted by psyche777 at 10:45 P.M. EST on Fri Nov 11, 2005     #



For discussing local issues and interviewing local officials, Bob is way better than anyone else WSPD has employed in recent years.

I think the Brian Wilson beach ball character is also the new program director at WSPD. Does a program director decide who does what?

From Bob blog:

"I'm switching positions and will be debuting a new show with new daily features, complete with public events, debates, appearances, and forums, which will essentially put me all over the station and all over the format clock."


Angrysage said:

"i find WSPD'S format tiresome. the constant news weather and sport short segments interupt any type of meaningful discussion."

News, sports, weather, and traffic segments are the norm for most AM stations in the morning and evening. Listen to WJR or WLW one time and you'll see.

posted by jr at 01:09 A.M. EST on Sat Nov 12, 2005     #



Get Sirius people, as in Sirius Satellite Radio. Admittedly no local talk, but the quality and varitey of national news and jabber is oustanding. I have it in all three vehicles, the house and an outdoor radio. AM is near dead, FM as you know it now will be forced to change to compete with satellite. Local talk radio stinks!
posted by holland at 01:35 A.M. EST on Sat Nov 12, 2005     #



Now that Denny's gone, I agree.
posted by Foolkiller at 02:58 A.M. EST on Sat Nov 12, 2005     #



I too am surprised to hear this. Bob brought a faster paced show to WSPD, and I enjoyed this.
posted by chrismyers at 10:03 A.M. EST on Sat Nov 12, 2005     #



I enjoyed WSPD in the morning when Mark Standrif was the host. He had a very easy-going style and the show was informative and entertaining.
posted by tbones at 12:32 P.M. EST on Sat Nov 12, 2005     #



I agree, thones. Standriff had a much more cerebral approach than Frantz who is just another right-wing blabber. His schtick is dull and boring.

It's hard for a thinking conservative to listen to talk radio. Thank God for Fox News.

posted by MemyselfandI at 12:51 P.M. EST on Sat Nov 12, 2005     #



Wait a minute. You accuse Frantz of being a dull and boring right-wing blabber, but you like Fox News? You were making a joke, right?

Personally, I prefer local news on the radio and in the newspaper over national info because the latter can be obtained anywhere at anytime. I'd rather read and hear about local business owners and local community leaders. Overdosing on national news doesn't do anything to inform you about local issues. All government is local, something like that.

I believe a greater focus on local issues is more likely to cause a person to become involed in the local community. And getting involed locally is where the most good can be done.

posted by jr at 01:27 P.M. EST on Sat Nov 12, 2005     #



Often, jr, someone gets steamed enough about a national issue to head down to the local party headquarters of their choice and involvement begins there.
posted by holland at 10:00 A.M. EST on Sun Nov 13, 2005     #



http://rescuetoledo.proboards74.com/

Some of Bob's supporters have created the forum and are planning several courses of action to get Bob back on the morning time slot. Those that are interested can click and register.

:-)

posted by psyche777 at 09:30 P.M. EST on Sun Nov 13, 2005     #



You have to create an account to simply read that site. That's rediculous. Losers.

If people are that concerned, just don't listen to WSPD. No listeners equals no ratings. No ratings cause advertisers to go running, and that translates into no profits, which means the dinks running WSPD shit their pants.

If you don't have satellite radio, and you need alternative suggestions, here are a few. In the morning, listen to 91.7, the Ann Arbor NPR. In the afternoon, listen to the Mitch Albom show on WJR from 3-6 p.m. Any other time, listen to ESPN sports radio on 1470 or Fox sports radio on 1230.

If you need your fix of Rush, again, listen to WJR. And don't forget the all-news channel: Detroit's AM 950 WWJ. Plenty of options for radio heads. Problem solved. Even Toledo's AM 1560 has some kind of conservative B-list syndicated talking head lineup.

The problem is the lack of local talk options. The only non-WSPD local talk show I'm aware of is the Troy Neff show on 1230 Mon-Fri, 6-9 a.m.

Maybe an O for someone to startup a low power FM or microradio project if one doesn't exist.

What do the WSPD call letters stand for?

We Suck ...
We Still Pound ...

I'm not creative enough to come up with something witty.

posted by jr at 10:36 P.M. EST on Sun Nov 13, 2005     #



Glancing through comments on Frantz's blog, some of the fans are claiming a liberal conspiracy is trying to abort local conservative talk radio. Can't have too many Toledoans knowing the other version of every news story, I guess.

Russ Lemmon's Nov 7 column:

"Could it be that WSPD-AM (1370), which blissfully travels in the far right lanes of the political spectrum, is moving more toward the center? The short answer is yes."

"Brian Wilson, the station's new afternoon talk-show host, believes it's important to appeal to those in what he calls "the vast middle ground." And given that he is also WSPD's program director, that may be more than just lip service."


So now we see what's happened. According to Ms. Wilson, Bob Frantz is not "middle" enough. So Bob had to go. Also, Ms. Wilson probably didn't like the prospect that he would be less popular than Frantz. How does a reject like Wilson get to be both program director and talk show host?

Fred L. is much softer than Bob and Denny, which means weak-ass questions from Fred when interviewing local officials. Boring radio.

More from the Lemmon column:

"There's little doubt that Wilson will come across as more moderate than his afternoon-drive predecessor, Denny Schaffer, who unabashedly supported President Bush in the 2004 election."

And what in the hell does Denny's support have to do with anything? The Blade unabashedly supported Kerry and just about any other Democrat up for election.

You'd think a person like Lemmon who covers the media would understand the concept of ratings. If ratings are good, what makes the difference who the talk show host supports?

See, Lemmon doesn't understand the concept of ratings because he works for a newspaper that loses millions of dollars every year and is propped up by other businesses in the Block empire.

So local talk radio on WSPD is becoming "more moderate" and more "middle ground." Translation: watered down radio in an attempt to appeal to a larger audience will in fact lead to mediocrity and lower ratings.

More from the Lemmon column:

"Wilson, 55, promises he will offer "objective analysis" of controversial issues."

Translation: No spine to take a stance on a position. Will try to get along or agree with everyone. It will be Barney the purple dinosaur radio.

Is it true that this will be Ms. Wilson's fourth job in five years? If so, wonder why?

What's interesting is Bob Frantz was an adamant supporter of Toledo's 2003 strict smoking ban. He and Lemmon agreed on that issue. Bob Frantz also supports same-sex marriage. Standard right-wing thinking would not agree with Bob on those two social issues.

I believe Ms. Wilson nuked Frantz because of Bob's popularity and not because of Bob's political and social views. And Ms. Wilson clearly didn't want to be second fiddle in a town like Toledo.

Since Clear Channel also owns AM 1230, there's no chance of Bob finding a home for a local show there.

Russ Lemmon must be leaving orgasmic wetspots on every chair he sits in, now that Denny and Bob are no longer expressing their viewpoints to area citizens. I guess we'll just have to rely on the Blade's op-ed section for intelligent critical analysis.

posted by jr at 11:41 P.M. EST on Sun Nov 13, 2005     #



Part of the problem is that Toledo seems to be an incubater market. Those who are good move on to bigger and better things. That doesn't seems to be what happened with Bob, but history does tend to repeat itself.

Whats nice about America and capitalism is that we have "free will". We don't have to listen to 1370 if they continue to go downhill.

1560 wtod has put together a very nice lineup, and is a nice alternative to 1370.

http://www.supertalk1560.com/index.php?fuseaction=home.schedule

(Interesingly enough, Bill Bennett used to be on the lineup, but he mysteriouly disappeared after his recent p.r. flubber)

posted by lloyd at 12:37 A.M. EST on Mon Nov 14, 2005     #



If I had some extra cash stashed under the garage, I'd start up Toledo Talk Radio and bury WSPD in the local arena. They're ripe for a fall now that Bob doesn't have a show and Denny went to Atlanta.

Think of the TTR lineup. It would be loaded with as many Toledo Talk posters as possible. Now that would be covering the political spectrum. And you'd only have to co-host a show one day a week.

Users would double and maybe triple up for each show. I would like to discuss technology, sports, and the arts. Plenty of other Toledo Talk users to discuss politics, education, business, music, video games, religion, history, etc.

And I'd take Angrysage's advice and would not offer any weather, traffic, and sports updates. Definitely no school closing updates on snow days. Go to school anyway you pansies.

Non-profit community radio. Is that possible?

It would start out on Mon-Fri from 6-9 a.m. and 3-6 p.m., but hopefully would expand to other time-slots. No nationally syndicated shows. Every show would be hosted by one to three people from the local area. Would have to have BrianInFlorida be a frequent call-in guest speaker.

Wouldn't need much power. Just enough for Toledo and the immediate surrounding area. We wouldn't need to reach Tiffin or Bryan.

Well, maybe next year or the year after. I've always wanted to start a radio station. So you never know. Takes big money, but who said it would be mine? Unfortunately, the name WTTR is already taken.

Imagine a show hosted by GuestZero, anonymouscoward, and babbleman? I'd be downloading the podcast for that one, so I could hear it again.

Toledo Talk Radio would be an audio trainwreck, appealing to our natural voyeuristic curiosity. I mean, come on. Who doesn't slow down to view carnage? Toledo Talk Radio would be controlled madness. Highly intelligent insanity.

posted by jr at 01:06 A.M. EST on Mon Nov 14, 2005     #



jr - brilliant idea!!!! It doesn't take owning a station, just finding a station with bad enough ratings during those time slots that they'd be willing to try something new and different. Why not go through the Arbitron ratings and pitch the idea??? I'd help, as I think it's terrific!

ps - is there some reason you kept referring to Brian Wilson as Ms.? I'm missing the irony, I think.

posted by intrepid at 04:45 P.M. EST on Mon Nov 14, 2005     #



That is a great idea Jr. I'd help too, however I would not want to be in the middle of AC, Babbleman and Guest Zero...



:-)

posted by psyche777 at 06:13 P.M. EST on Mon Nov 14, 2005     #



Funky happenings with my Happy Hacking keyboard. No irony.

psyche777 reported on Bob's blog:

"Brian just announced Bob's new show called "Eye on Toledo" will start [Nov] 29th at 6:00 p.m."

posted by jr at 06:24 P.M. EST on Mon Nov 14, 2005     #



jr, states: Imagine a show hosted by GuestZero, anonymouscoward, and babbleman? I'd be downloading the podcast for that one, so I could hear it again.

jr, you do have some great guests on your site...love the radio talk show idea...love the idea of those three making comments...it would be GREAT LIVE...as it's GREAT in PRINT!!!

posted by MARIELORA at 07:17 P.M. EST on Mon Nov 14, 2005     #



The Petition some of Bob's Supporters from Conservatives of Toledo is ready for those who want to sign it: (No you don't have to be a conservative to sign it)

http://thiscause.org/p/menu.php?p=Sheasby06257DB

One of the posters on Conservatives of Toledo stated he talked to Wilson, that the new show will only be an hour long. Not alot more details about it at this point.

posted by psyche777 at 08:33 P.M. EST on Mon Nov 14, 2005     #



Time for some more fun and food for thought over the "new guy."

Is Brian Wilson a communist? Nothing wrong with that. Just be open and admit it, instead of hiding behind the libertarian label. Then again, a communist being open and honest doesn't make sense. If he is a communist, that would explain why Russ Lemmon is happy.

Wilson probably negotiated the overthrow and occupation of the program director's position at WSPD in order to have a real reason to come to the drained Black Swamp of northwest Ohio. He wanted complete control. So Wilson favors dictator regimes, monopolies, and big government.

And since he hasn't done anything locally to earn his right to the throne of local talk radio, Wilson probably supports corporate welfare. He favors handouts whenever possible over personal responsibility and hard work.

Since he shitcanned Bob for the common good of the station despite Bob's ratings, Wilson is probably a fan of eminent domain.

Since Bob was not middle-of-the-road enough for Wilson, Bob had to go. So Wilson opposes free speech and freedom of thought.

Since Frantz's ratings were good, Wilson didn't can Bob for business reasons. Wilson is probably jealous of Bob's popularity, which means Wilson is opposed to our free market system.

Do Wilson's actions meet the libertarian requirements? Is Wilson one of those "Do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do" dorks?

For those who listen to this guy, let us know if he says he supports capitalism, supports the First Amendment, and opposes big government. He'd be a hypocrite if he said those things.

And in the spirit of this fun time, more crude image tricks by me:



Need the work of alexandra to come up with something nicer. I'm more at home at a Nix prompt, mucking with server-side code and databases than with graphics.

posted by jr at 10:24 P.M. EST on Mon Nov 14, 2005     #



I listened off and on from 3:30-5:45.

I was unimpressed. Not that I'm anyone important :)

I didn't like that he said he was not looking at or responding to e-mail questions. Well, sorry for the person that can't get on the phone.

posted by aperson at 11:00 P.M. EST on Mon Nov 14, 2005     #



That is a great idea Jr. I'd help too, however I would not want to be in the middle of AC, Babbleman and Guest Zero...

:-)
posted by psyche777 at 06:13 P.M. EST on Mon Nov 14, 2005 #
---------------------------------------

No guts, no glory. LOL :D

And I never liked Frantz anyway, I thought he was an a$$&*le. With Denny gone, I seldom listen to the station. Nobody to challenge the Block Empire on the airwaves now. Sad. Schaffer & the one he took over for (Id & Superego hour was the zenith of Toledo talk radio-Dear God, I miss March Madmen!)were the two best things to ever happen locally. Is the madman, can't recall his name, still on later at night? It's a syndicated show, don't always agree with him, but he's sure as hell not boring. He wrote a book called "The Enemy Within'. He's really more of a Libertarian, but calls himself the last angry conservative.

posted by Foolkiller at 11:44 P.M. EST on Mon Nov 14, 2005     #



FK...No guts no glory? I tend to look at it as even I know my limits. Or as I say around here..Not even I am that crazy - lol

:-)

and you are important aperson, if enough of us aren't impressed and say something about it? Change could happen.

posted by psyche777 at 12:00 A.M. EST on Tue Nov 15, 2005     #



I am so flattered.

Well hot damn, I'm almost speechless.

If you wouldn't mind looking over a small list of deman...I mean requests to make life bearable, I wish for the following, just substitute "Brian" for "Luciano Pavarotti".

thank you.

posted by BrianInFlorida at 04:54 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 15, 2005     #



jr said: You have to create an account to simply read that site. That's rediculous. Losers.

Funny, I had to create an account here too. Does that make you a looser?

There are reasons why RescueToledo requires one to register. If you or anyone is truely interested I'd be happy to explain it to you. Somehow I don't think that is the case though.

Now, shall we dispense with the b/s and find out what's more important to Toledo?

Is Frantz enough of a butthole that you or anyone else for that matter do not care that the Blade now has a choke hold on what information gets force fed to the Toledo public?

Or does the fact that the blade now gets to define the very concept of truth, turn your stomache enough that you can look past the fact that Frantz is a butthole (to you anyway) and do something about putting the thorn back in the side of the blade?

posted by WhiteAfricanAmerican at 05:27 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 15, 2005     #



You have to create an account to read your site, WhiteAfricanAmerican. You don't have to create an account to read ToledoTalk. You have to register in order to post here. I enjoyed being able to read Toledo Talk for months before joining and deciding to post. Your site doesn't afford us the opportunity. You have to log in to find out it is something you might not even be interested in. I think jr's set up is better.
posted by alexandra at 06:38 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 15, 2005     #



Bully for jr. Let's all jump up and down.

as I mentioned, there is a reason for registering. Obvioulsy jr doesn't have the same need at this juncture. Give him and his place 2 years, and the exposure that most of us have had on Frantz's various chat boards/blogs, and that probably would change.

Interesting that you chose not to answer the question posed though.

posted by WhiteAfricanAmerican at 08:00 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 15, 2005     #



One tends to rely upon credibility for inspiration to read a blog.

I'm seeing a bunch of credibility here.

Insults and antagonistic reasoning aren't defined under "credibility".

As far as relying on The Blade, one must partake in reading of said medium to be influenced by such. Judging from the voter's decisions, The Blade also has no credibility.

As far as Bob Frantz, he's just a victim of an egomaniacal program director with an agenda, and unless Bob truly has the testicular fortitude to fess up and be honest and open with his audience, he deserves the humiliation of publically being taken off the air and totally removed from the radio station website. Altho I do know "burning bridges" isn't a good idea in radio, having the stigma of being taken off the air with the ratings Bob had is worse, especially when his new name tag reads "Floater".

Feel free to lay waste into me. I'm due.

posted by BrianInFlorida at 09:17 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 15, 2005     #



I hear you Brian.

One has to appreciate the predicament Frantz is in. Burning bridges is not a good idea for him.

A thought on the blade.

If they are not as influential as you suggest they aren't, why is it necessary for a sitting mayor of toledo to travel to PA to pay homage to the Block concglomerate and kiss the ring of JRB.

How is it that the same pinheads remain in power in toledo decade after decade.

I don't doubt that the blade is loosing ground, but somehow I don't think they're about to go gentle into that good night either.

posted by WhiteAfricanAmerican at 09:27 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 15, 2005     #



I don't doubt that the blade is losing ground, but somehow I don't think they're about to go gentle into that good night either.
--------------------------------------

Yeah, that's my assessment too. The last two November elections showed that Block's power is slipping, even to their council endorsements-as the 'barely made it' last place showing of So-Lousy shows, as well as the issues. I'm not sure if the paper endorsed the female elitist that lost, but if they did, good. But I couldn't tell you how many times when I've went to vote, that I've seen MANY people waiting in line with that damned 'suggested ballot' from the rag in their hand.

I think the rabid, day-after-day rantings, columns, and editorials trying to get the smoking ban amendment to fail opened the eyes of a lot of people-it backfired on them, due to extreme overkill. I had about three people tell me back then something like: "You know, I never really believed you before about Block & the Blade's brainwashing, but now with this issue, I can see it."
They still carry a lot of clout, though, and I don't care how much money the rag loses, the other things the family owns in their conglomerate will enable them to keep putting it out. Their agenda is what's important to them-they already have enough money.

posted by Foolkiller at 11:46 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 15, 2005     #



Jack Ford, Frank Szollosi, Skip and others that owe their political careers to John Robinson Block will have to live with the "Scarlett Letter" of being JRB's buttplugs.

Fortunately, with readership down all over and elected officials that aren't obligated to "orally pleasing" JRB's ring finger getting voted in, the iron grasp of that deranged old man is rusting away.

With that idiot Szollosi claiming to "want to purge Ohio of it's ethical flaws", he may want to start in the mirror, then look at his hero and work his way across City Council.

Bob Frantz and Denny Schaffer have opened doors for local radio to afford an open venue to illicit conversations and comments from people around the area concerning issues that affect them.

I have never heard one Bob Frantz show, and have listened to Denny's almost everyday before he left. The voices I heard on Denny's show represent what Toledo public is thinking, not something canned or conjured up.

As much as I would enjoy signing the petition, for never hearing one episode of Frantz Radio, it would be wrong to vote on something I know nothing about.

posted by BrianInFlorida at 04:28 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 16, 2005     #



But Bob explains to everyone here.
posted by BrianInFlorida at 05:00 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 16, 2005     #



We have the real story on Bob's sudden removal as morning host today at Toledo Tales.
posted by Subcomandante_bob at 07:42 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 16, 2005     #



Personally, I can't wait for Bob's "eye on Toledo." Isn't it about time there was someone OTHER than the Blade investigating and researching issues? How many times, on this site, have people asked about things that just seem to be swept under the rug?

McCloskey's lawsuit/investigation/whatever?
Telb's sicktime payouts in violation of the law?
Steam Plant?
Constant contradictions - can't have pay to play in Columbus, but it's okay in toledo.

I hope Bob's able to address some of these and I'm really looking forward to it - if only to point out the hypocrisy.

posted by intrepid at 08:54 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 16, 2005     #



Need the work of alexandra to come up with something nicer. I'm more at home at a Nix prompt, mucking with server-side code and databases than with graphics.
posted by jr at 10:24 P.M. EST on Mon Nov 14, 2005 #


jr, missed this comment until now. Thanks for the compliment! You're right, the stars need to go. WSPD, need help?

posted by alexandra at 02:33 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 16, 2005     #



ok, here you go jr - not as good as yours, i would say, I didn't really take care to add any special graphichs or clean up the lines...


New Brian Wilson logo:





posted by alexandra at 03:08 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 16, 2005     #



Folks, I'd put money on the fact that Frantz is getting the shaft, and that he is not happy about it.

so back to my question?

What is more important, JRB choking this area into submission, or reinstating Frantz?

Ok, I said I wasn't going to beg, but I'm going to beg now. Enjoy it because you'll never see it again.

Please get on the forum and go sign the petition. Ok, please.

This has less to do with Frantz as a host and more to do with the fact that there are wanna be elitists that think they have the God given right to tell you what you need to hear and believe.

They want to be the rockefellers of Toledo. And as always we have a choice. We can sit back on our thumbs or we can actually do something.

We need thousands of signatures, not hundreds. There is no doubt in my mind, from people I have chatted to, that this is 100% political. It's either part of the plan to force OH into a win for the DNC, or it's payback seeing as how Frantz almost single handedly caused Ford to get the ass whoopin he deserved.

Either way, it's unethical and people need to take a stand.

So, what do you say?

posted by WhiteAfricanAmerican at 05:14 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 16, 2005     #



I think we should not rush to judgement of Brian Wilson and try to make him feel welcome.

I certainly can't form an opinion of him yet since I have listened for a total of 15 minutes. He did say some things in that 15 minutes which I liked:

1. Don't call up his show to knock Toledo.
2. He's doesn't understand Toledo's self-esteem problem and stated that Toledo is a nice area to live and that he wants to be here.

It must be tough to be the "new kid on the block" (interpet use of word "block" as you like)

posted by lloyd at 06:21 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 16, 2005     #



More news on the Bob Frantz-WSPD saga just in from Toledo Tales, your #1 source for news of an unreliable basis.
posted by Subcomandante_bob at 10:58 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 16, 2005     #



alexandra, thanks twice. Once for the new logo and for setting WhiteAfricanAmerican straight who obviously doesn't know the difference between reading and writing.

WhiteAfricanAmerican states, "... the Blade now has a choke hold on what information gets force fed to the Toledo public"

Yet, that loser site is closed to anyone who wants to read it. Don't complain about someone else controlling information when the webiste you're supporting is closed or was closed to the public for reading. So what bullshit reasons do you or did you have for requiring people to create an account to READ the damn thing?

WhiteAfricanAmerican also says:

"Obvioulsy jr doesn't have the same need at this juncture. Give him and his place 2 years, and the exposure that most of us have had on Frantz's various chat boards/blogs, and that probably would change."

What in the hell are you talking about? Need? His place? What his place? What's that two-years thing? And what would probably change? I don't understand, man.

Toledo Talk has been open to the public since January 17, 2003. That means in two months this site will be three years old. I gave you a little help there in case math is as tough for you as reading.

I can't think of any reason for a website to be open and then become closed for reading after a given period of time unless the site is in China.

Popular sites MetaFilter and Kuro5hin have both been around for several years, and both require user registration to post to the sites, but both are open to anyone for reading.

posted by jr at 11:37 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 16, 2005     #



WhiteAfricanAmerican's website: http://rescuetoledo.proboards74.com/ is still closed to the public for reading. Interesting. The site title is "Conservatives of Toledo." So Toledo conservatives don't believe in open sharing of information, eh? Well, anyone can manage a website anyway they want, and that's one way.
posted by jr at 12:12 A.M. EST on Thu Nov 17, 2005     #



Alternative Radio

I've heard low-power radio in Toledo already. For instance, I picked up a great anti-New World Order rant on some crazy band from my basement in West Toledo in 2001. In another instance, some old Black guys were chatting on the CB channels about the ways things used to be around Toledo.

This kind of thing is probably still out there, but with limited audiences, poor consistency and low persistence, it's likely to remain less than a sideshow. Hence, there's little chance that we'll have a "Pump Up the Volume" (Christian Slater) movie moment ... and with the Internet, low-power radio can't compete with the availability and persistence of websites (like ToledoTalk!).

Wilson's Rules

Lloyd, them's fightin' words thar, that Wilson done issued!

What the hell does he mean, don't "knock Toledo"? That's only a formula for cheerleading and the overall avoidance of critical analysis. Heck, I've been accused of exactly such, several times just on ToledoTalk about my viewpoint being "negative".

And for a self-esteem problem ... well, this issue comes up many times in talking about Toledo. Wilson is obviously not one of the working poor. I don't know, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't have to live in a sh*tty apartment off of Laskey Road. With a good income, virtually any city will seem like a great place. I made great money while I lived in Boston, but all I had to do was go to places nearby (like Allston) to see homeless, and things like Asian ladies walking to work at their sweatshops. Cities are wonderful places for pretending that nothing is wrong with society, since you can willfully drive by bad areas on your way to the ritzy areas where you spend your money and rub shoulders with similarly-monied people.

There are people in Toledo who live without telephones, regular heat, and even bathrooms. When gas hit $3/gal, I had several friends in serious trouble handling such increased expenses. Wilson can't in all intellectual honesty pretend that these people are brainwashed or deluded into thinking Toledo is bad place to be ... for the working class (largely qualified as non-unionized, but even the unionized folk are entering the "working poor" picture with the two-tier wage system).

Wilson is simply NOT laying ground rules for informative radio. In contrast, he's clearly establishing PROPAGANDA. And it seems that like all Imperials (Conservative or Liberal forms) he is unabashed about it.

Overall Alternatives

It's really up to us to capitalize on our natural Brownian Motion and wriggle our society to a state of higher excitation, information-wise. The Internet has turned out to be immensely empowering. Looking back to my teenhood in the 1980s, I can see that I'm truly living in the future, now. Sure, there isn't a moon base, and neither are there manned missions to Jupiter ... so much of my reading of "Omni" magazine turned out to be mental masturbation. But an information-soaked society is here. I can send a letter to someone at the farthest reaches of the world, and as long as they have some form of data connection, they can get my letter within SECONDS. From the 1980s standpoint, that's futuristic. The future is here. And it turned out to be a lot more boring than we ever expected.

The future-now is boring since we just didn't have realistic expectations on the integration of technology with socialization and economics. Since we must deal with the present at all times, it is up to us to realize that the future has indeed arrived and that we may well have to resort to a WORK ETHIC to capitalize on it in ways that will produce a "future-future" more in line with the fantastic musings seen in forward-looking publications of the past.

Jr has already made his future. He runs ToledoTalk. I did something similar in the late 1990s when I ran a moderated Usenet newsgroup. These things aren't really critically-pathed by any other factor than WORK. If we work at them, they will bloom. The flower may well be a mutant that we find strange, but strange can be wonderful.

For example, Jr may well decide that he can afford to pipeline ToledoTalk from his computer's Internet connection, through a text-to-speech program, thence into a low-power transmitter with a range of about a mile. (Below a certain power, people are generally free to broadcast as long as they don't interfere with established (i.e. licensed) stations. I really don't remember the range limit for the power level, but it could be as large as a mile.) If there's anything that our computer-intensive society has achieved, it's cheap equipment ... so such a setup shouldn't be prohibitive.

Let's look at another example, albeit it is more nebulous in my mind. WiFi has the potential of re-accomplishing the pre-Internet Internet, known as Fidonet. Fidonet was a pervasive standard way of linking one bulletin-board system (BBS) to others. Basically, one BBS would call another BBS (setup as as Fidonet node) a relatively short distance away, hopefully avoiding long-distance call charges. Mail and other messages would then hop from BBS to BBS in this fashion (often overnight when calling rates were generally cheaper), so eventually your message would get there. The Internet does this kind of thing automatically now, through a massive infrastructure of primarily-router-based equipment.

Well, the point I'm trying to make here with WiFi is that as people load up their homes with cheap networking equipment, WiFi could coalesce areas into natural networks that anyone can dip into. These subnets can carry all kinds of things (even (alas) illegal things like child porn and copyrighted movies). Barring security problems, such distributed common networks can finally produce local media that we've sought all along but have seldom achieved (for instance, local cable channels, which are widely avoided in America despite the early plans).

So a ToledoTalk-like or -sponsored show could find itself blooming over Toledo's eventual WiFi cloud. Anyone can join in, just by buying a $20 WiFi access point and directing their web browser to, er, toledotalk.toledo.oh.us.wifi.

posted by GuestZero at 12:33 A.M. EST on Thu Nov 17, 2005     #



GuestZero.... i find your technology lesson very interesting. Can you explain to me, this "WiFi" cloud.... Are you explaining that with the rise in all the in-home wireless networks, there is pretty much eventually going to be "free internet" for the taking? Do you think this is a definite eventuality? Is this because you feel most people do not protect their networks? (i.e., my wireless is set up with not only a security code, but also, each computer's Mac ID.) No one can park in front of my house and use the internet... but accidentilly, when my network was down, my computer automatically connected to one of the available networks in my apartment complex....

Anyway, if you could explain what you said again, further dummied down than previously submitted, I would greatly appreciate it. :)

posted by alexandra at 12:49 A.M. EST on Thu Nov 17, 2005     #



What the hell does he mean, don't "knock Toledo"? That's only a formula for cheerleading and the overall avoidance of critical analysis. Heck, I've been accused of exactly such, several times just on ToledoTalk about my viewpoint being "negative".

And for a self-esteem problem ... well, this issue comes up many times in talking about Toledo. Wilson is obviously not one of the working poor. I don't know, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't have to live in a sh*tty apartment off of Laskey Road. With a good income, virtually any city will seem like a great place. I made great money while I lived in Boston, but all I had to do was go to places nearby (like Allston) to see homeless, and things like Asian ladies walking to work at their sweatshops. Cities are wonderful places for pretending that nothing is wrong with society, since you can willfully drive by bad areas on your way to the ritzy areas where you spend your money and rub shoulders with similarly-monied people.
--------------------------------------------


DING DING DING!! WE HAVE A WINNER!! As usual, GZ, you beat me to it. You expanded your comments a bit more than I was going to, but basically, I was going to say the same exact things. If you can't 'knock Toledo', that means you don't dare say anything critical -about Block, his rag, So-Lousy, Wade the Wonder Boy, McStuffsky, or anyone or anything else that is wrong or screwed up here. And yeah, ANYWHERE is a fine place to live....if you're financially well off. If I had bucks falling out of my ass, I'd probably feel that way too, had I never suffered. -it's human nature. The difference is, I've been homeless myself in years past. Twice. I wasn't really starving, but it wasn't fun, either. I just thanked God at the time -even though I'm not a super-religious person-that both times, it was during the Summer months. I do NOT like this new attitude by WSPD, and I've got a bad feeling about it-even though I couldn't stand Frantz, and never listened to his show.

posted by Foolkiller at 01:50 A.M. EST on Thu Nov 17, 2005     #



A few added random thoughts: Geez, Psyche! Your marriage sounds like James Carville & Mary Matalin (only in reverse)! LOL I think she's a babe (when she doesn't have a crappy hairdo), and could never understand what she saw in Old Serpenthead. If you can make it work, what the heck, I guess. Their situations' a little different than yours, though, since they're both advisors/commentators. Weird. I think it was their getting hitched that showed me once & for all how phony politics are.
--------------------------------------------

Alexandra: I agree totally with your view on the site registration angle. There is a big difference.

---------------------------------------------

And you're right, GZ. The future is now, and it's boring as hell. By the way, I'm a lot older than you, you whippersnapper, but I used to read OMNI too. :-D

posted by Foolkiller at 02:10 A.M. EST on Thu Nov 17, 2005     #



Maybe someone can convince Google to set up a WiFi network in Toledo for free. A MeFi posting:

"The Mountain View, CA City Council has approved an offer from Google to rent the city's street lamps for $12,600/year to install city-wide wireless internet. Some residents are concerned about privacy and health issues, but the city council says that's beyond their scope, and chooses to take the free lunch."

posted by jr at 05:01 P.M. EST on Thu Nov 17, 2005     #



I sometimes check out a community site called iBrattleboro, which supports the town of Brattleboro, Vermont. The small town also has or had Radio Free Brattleboro, but it ran into a little trouble with the FCC earlier this year.

"radio free brattleboro, a non-commercial and commercial free all access independent community radio station, began broadcasting on July 13th, 1998."

"rfb's operating expenses are covered by monthly dues paid by its DJs, listener contributions, various fund raisers, and sales of T-Shirts and a CD of music recorded in live performance in our studios. For more information about rfb's recent legal problems with the FCC, as well as other current information, check out our News&Events page."

posted by jr at 05:45 P.M. EST on Thu Nov 17, 2005     #



Things are going dangerously wrong at Clear Channel studios. Toledo Tales has the story of another angry Toledo mob.
posted by Subcomandante_bob at 11:26 P.M. EST on Thu Nov 17, 2005     #



Am I reading some of these posts correctly? Are certain people actually believing that getting rid of Bob's show is part of a conspiracy by Block?

I don't see Clear Channel doing something so... local. I think it's more likely that they've recently discovered a trend that works in other cities, and true to their cookie cutter form, they're going to try it here as well. Because that's what they're good at - replicating themselves and everything they broadcast. It was only a matter of time before they got to talk radio... they've been ruining FM radio for years.

posted by valbee at 11:51 P.M. EST on Thu Nov 17, 2005     #



Alexandra, WiFi has the potential to provide pervasive local networks, not just convenient connections to the Internet.

Firstly, "cloud" is a networking term. Just imagine that a network is a figurative, puffy and opaque cloud that hides its composition but allows people to form arbitrary connections through it. In network diagrams, you'll often see people drawing in a "network cloud". Another way of thinking about it, is to consider the network to be a "black box" that somehow functions in ways we don't care about for the purposes of discussion and illustration.

Think of the cellphone networks around here. Let's simplify it by saying there is only 1 cellphone "cloud". That would mean that ANYWHERE within a certain range of Toledo, people can whip out their cellphones and make a phone call.

But that's not the entirety of my speculations. Cellphone networks are tightly controlled and rather centralized. So, what if you could make phone calls while inside the cellphone cloud to another phone without the excessive involvement of a central authority? (Disclaimer: Network optimizers probably do something like this already, but let's not lose the thread of my argument.)

Note that for cellphones, that's not very useful. Cells call other phones, and that uses the centralized databases of the network for authorization purposes.

So let's return to the data-network model. What if we created a network cloud over Toledo through proliferation of WiFi equipment, AND let people opt to open up at least portions of their equipment bandwidth (i.e. data-carrying capacity) for free-form networks not connected to the Internet? Some people will opt to leave their WiFi stuff closed off to the public. Some will opt for a partial sharing. And some will open theirs up all the way, at least part of the time.

People run distributed processing projects (SETI@Home being the most famous) by capitalizing on (1) voluntary participation, and (2) off-duty or idle computing and network resources. These projects run quite well. So why couldn't we eventually have a Toledo-only network that's dedicated for Toledoans to run amok with their own projects, by using those same traits?

These Toledo-only network projects can be advertised by various methods, to try to convince people to (1) open up their WiFi equipment (at least partially in time or bandwidth), and (2) convince people to join the project in question. The project that Jr may envision can be "toledotalk.wifi", typed into the browser on any WiFi-connected computer. He can then form a general forum, a set of columnists, and a set of "radio shows".

I can then go get a WiFi card for my computer, and a WiFi access point of some kind, and then join in. If I put all that crap onto a laptop, I can have the damned thing with me often, and simply type into guestzero.columnist.toledotalk.wifi (or the general area forum.toledotalk.wifi) ... or issue audio or video, which can be taken from my laptop at any time (provided I leave it on).

Jr can convince a few friends to be "storage" points for the data on toledotalk.wifi, as well as his own equipment.

Eventually, as the tech matures, Babbleman will get so incensed at some iconic socially-liberal thing I say, that he'll snap like a dried twig and challenge me to an audio debate. I'll accept, and Babbleman will post a notice on forum.toledotalk.wifi that a new link has been created, called zerobabble.show.toledotalk.wifi. Eventually if we like screaming at each other like Hannity and Colmes, we decide to make things more formal and post some rules and scheduled times for our so-called debates.

Well, anyway.

This techie future is ours to create. All we have to do is make use of the technology we're given and expand upon it earnestly in ways that provoke equipment and software manufacturers to reply to our market demand. If we try to make local networks of hopefully-high bandwidth, they will eventually be made and we can then take the net step in evolving their usage.

posted by GuestZero at 02:11 A.M. EST on Fri Nov 18, 2005     #



Yet, that loser site is closed to anyone who wants to read it. Don't complain about someone else controlling information when the webiste you're supporting is closed or was closed to the public for reading. So what bullshit reasons do you or did you have for requiring people to create an account to READ the damn thing?

Thank you! I'm refreshed and challenged by your unique point of view, you ridiculous little carnival freak. Rumor has it that you are almost incomprehensible in person (as revealed by your desperate urge to babble nonsensically on message boards.) No doubt, this rumor is true.

You should offer your posting style to hospital operating theatres as a highly-effective alternative to unconsciousness-inducing medications.

Here's a tip: no one will ever know that you've had a lobotomy if you wear a wig to hide to the scars.

If you're going to say something that ignorant, you could at least fake a stroke.

As Robert Wilensky said: "We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare." Now, thanks to the Internet and your post, I know this is not true.

Most repair manuals are far more interesting than you, and far less turgid to read.

Anyway, I'm not really good with fools, but a friend who is good with fools wrote something down for me. Oh, yeah, "Shut your cake-hole, stupid!"

posted by WhiteAfricanAmerican at 06:14 A.M. EST on Fri Nov 18, 2005     #



WhiteAfricanAmerican's website: http://rescuetoledo.proboards74.com/ is still closed to the public for reading. Interesting. The site title is "Conservatives of Toledo." So Toledo conservatives don't believe in open sharing of information, eh? Well, anyone can manage a website anyway they want, and that's one way.

Are you always this ignorant, or are you making a special effort today?


So, let me see if I understand you correctly. In your insignificant little world, the folks running rescuetoledo are "loosers" because they choose to go about things differently than you do?

They're loosers because they feel the best way to run their site is to ask people wishing to contribute to register, so they can filter out trolls that have been f-ing up other forums set up by Frantz in the past. Seeing as how they have the IP's of these trolls, they decided that it would make sense to have people register in order to log IP's an in so doing makes it easier to ID the trolls and remove them.

because of all these little things, that the owners of rescuetoledo CHOOSE to do, they are branded loosers by jr?

Tell me jr, who died and made you God anyway?

So what we see, is that this has nothing to do with "not wanting to share information openly" as the jellyfish sucking mental midget, jr, suggests. It has everything to do with the OWNERS of rescuetoledo not fitting the MOLD of what the wannabe internet god, jr, deems to be the offical format that a forum ought to look like.

BWAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Hey jr, you are one pathetic individual.

posted by WhiteAfricanAmerican at 07:12 A.M. EST on Fri Nov 18, 2005     #



WhiteAfricanAmerican - to me - you sound so foolish running your mouth off like a 3rd grader. I don't see anything productive in your argument. Your personal flaming of jr in my opinion should be grounds for dismissal of your participation of ToledoTalk... my wishful opinion....

Back to the origional HARMLESS opinion and point that both JR and I seem to agree on....

I think a lot of people would agree that they prefer to try it before they buy it - and in the case of your site, before giving all of your personal information to a site, we would rather read it and see what it is about first.

The only preface we have to your site is that you want to make a change for Bob Frantz. Personally, I dont think your little blog is going to do a darned thing.

Additionally, to promote your site, you spammed a bunch of people and emailed them without permission.

Lastly, you come on here and babble like a maniac giving conservatives like me a bad name by claiming you are conservative yet talking with such detest and foul in your mouth. You can't take the heat? Why not move on if you hate jr so much. Enjoy your little board.

posted by alexandra at 07:34 A.M. EST on Fri Nov 18, 2005     #



GZ - this technology info should be on a new thread. I really enjoyed reading about it, and I certainly would like more discussion on it! Thanks for taking so much time to open the discussion! I also appreciate your dumbing it down for me LOL :)
posted by alexandra at 07:36 A.M. EST on Fri Nov 18, 2005     #



Gz - one more question - what about viruses? If I open storage at all, is it possible to open myself up for viruses?
posted by alexandra at 07:40 A.M. EST on Fri Nov 18, 2005     #



ZeroBabble....I LOVE IT!!!!!
posted by intrepid at 08:00 A.M. EST on Fri Nov 18, 2005     #



GuestZero, excellent posting. Good ideas. I like your statement, "This techie future is ours to create."

Hardware is fairly cheap today. Some companies that have done fairly well, like Google and Yahoo! have made heavy use of open-source software. It's easier today than 10-15 years ago to pull something like this off. It's an idea that warrants more thought and attention. If the project fails in the end, at least the attempt was made. It's better to go down trying than to never doing anything and always wonder.

posted by jr at 09:09 A.M. EST on Fri Nov 18, 2005     #



WhiteAfricanAmerican - to me - you sound so foolish running your mouth off like a 3rd grader. I don't see anything productive in your argument. Your personal flaming of jr in my opinion should be grounds for dismissal of your participation of ToledoTalk... my wishful opinion....

Yeah, I'm the one that catagorized him as a looser from the outset, despite a nice explanation as to the reasons for requiring registration. Time to take the rose petaled glasses off honey.

Shoe doesn't fit so good when it's on the other foot, now does it?


Back to the origional HARMLESS opinion and point that both JR and I seem to agree on....

I think a lot of people would agree that they prefer to try it before they buy it - and in the case of your site, before giving all of your personal information to a site, we would rather read it and see what it is about first.


Try before you buy? If I was asking for your credit card number or a DNA sample, before being allowed access, you'd have an arguement, as it stands neither you nor him have one. What it amounts to is junior over there ripping on a group of people he knows nothing about, BEHIND their back.

Notice he calls them loosers HERE, but doesn't have the chutzpah to email one of the mods and take it up with them.

The only preface we have to your site is that you want to make a change for Bob Frantz. Personally, I dont think your little blog is going to do a darned thing.

More b/s. I've stated ON HERE what the purpose is. Odd that you haven't noticed that. Perhaps you haven't even read what I've had to other than skimming thru it to find fault. And as far as my 'little blog' not changing a darn thing.....you're probably right, no doubt because toledo is full of people like YOU and junior who are content to whine and complain about stuff but will not lift a finger to effect it.

At least those that have signed the petition and are comming up with ideas to attempt to affect change, are doing something

Additionally, to promote your site, you spammed a bunch of people and emailed them without permission.

My most profound appologies your highness, I won't do it again.

Lastly, you come on here and babble like a maniac giving conservatives like me a bad name by claiming you are conservative yet talking with such detest and foul in your mouth. You can't take the heat? Why not move on if you hate jr so much. Enjoy your little board.

Nice to see junior has a mother figure to wipe his ass. But, tell me alex. Who was talking to you or even taking you into consideration?

I'd tell you to grow up, but your probably afraid of heights.

posted by WhiteAfricanAmerican at 10:05 A.M. EST on Fri Nov 18, 2005     #



WhiteAfricanAmerican is a bit sensitive. Got some thin skin. A bit of a lightweight for the message board arena.

"Rumor has it that you are almost incomprehensible in person."

That's because when I'm in public, I'm always speaking Klingonese. I can't help it if the rest of society is too slow to adopt this sophisticated language. Ditto for the metric system. Or maybe my incomprehensible personality is due to my southern Ohio drawl of an accent. You people around here talk funny. I've lived here long enough now that I've picked up some your accent. Yes, Toledoans, you have an accent. It's not quite as strong as the Clevelanders' accents, but it has similarities.

I said: "Yet, that loser site is closed to anyone who wants to read it. Don't complain about someone else controlling information when the webiste you're supporting is closed or was closed to the public for reading. So what bullshit reasons do you or did you have for requiring people to create an account to READ the damn thing?"

Yet, you will notice that waa never addressed the issue I brought up, nor did he answer the question about why it's a closed site for reading.

waa said in his first comment: "If you or anyone is truely interested I'd be happy to explain it to you. Somehow I don't think that is the case though."

First, waa presumes to know how everyone here thinks. Second, still waiting for that explanation. You see, we shouldn't have to ask waa to explain why the site is closed to reading. waa should open up and voluntarily give the reasons. They may good reasons, but we don't know if waa doesn't tell us.

After alexandra explained to waa the differences between reading and writing, waa responded with: "as I mentioned, there is a reason for registering." But once again, waa chose not to give the reason.

waa said, "So, let me see if I understand you correctly. In your insignificant little world, the folks running rescuetoledo are "loosers" because they choose to go about things differently than you do?"

I said anyone can manage a site anyway he or she wants. The problem I have is that you have been begging people here and at Toledo Tales and who knows where else, to come to your site. But we cannot read it to decide if we want to sign up. If a person on his or her own stumbles onto your site and decides to sign up to check it out, that's one thing. But you're trying to recruit people sign up without giving us the option to read it. I'm all for more message boards, especially when they're concerned about the Toledo area.

I'll apologize for my first loser comment in my first mention about your forum. It just pissed me off that I couldn't read it after someone else directed me to the site because I think Frantz was wrongly removed too. So I'm sorry I called your message board a loser site. (BTW, maybe Frantz can sue WSPD on the grounds of age or viewpoint discrimination.)

waa said, "Hey jr, you are one pathetic individual."

Well that's obvious, since I'm responding to you.

Is it just me, or did the Nazis that signed up and posted here last month behave better and were more coherent than WhiteAfricanAmerican? And I never banned the Nazis. That brings up another point. Bill White's Nazi site Overthrow.com is open for anyone to read, but the Toledo Conservatives message board is not. Is WhiteAfricanAmerican typical of what exists at that Toledo Conservatives message board? I didn't think being so closed with information was the conservative way. Rescue Toledo sounds like a great idea.

WhiteAfricanAmerican, I don't care how you manage your site. Barries to entry, they differ from site to site. Some have low barries where anyone can post without any registration like Joel On Software. Some have medium barriers that require users to create an account with a valid e-mail address in order to post to the site, like Digg.com. And others have high barriers where a user has to create an account in order to read the site, like The Well. All are fine.

I used to have an account with The Well. It cost $10 a month. The Well has been around in some form since the mid-1980's. You can read more about this classic message board in Wired.com's The Epic Saga of The Well .


But ...

WhiteAfricanAmerican, you are going around to different sites and demanding that people go to Toledo Conservatives and sign up. That's fine. Except some of us would like to read it first. Why require registration to read the site? You'd have to expect some criticism over this.

I can understand needing registration to write to the site in order to cut down on the noise. Nobody is debating that. That's why I require registration here, and why I disabled the "Guest" account earlier this year.

You're going to get criticism at times. It's the nature of managing a message board. You need to learn to take it.

posted by jr at 10:18 A.M. EST on Fri Nov 18, 2005     #



waa, your site should have a preview for guests to read; and you keep missing that point. Thank you for apologizing for spamming my mailbox, I accept your apology; even within your pitiful sarcasm knowing you probably didn't mean it....

waa, says:
Nice to see junior has a mother figure to wipe his ass. But, tell me alex. Who was talking to you or even taking you into consideration?


I can respond to posts on this message board as I so choose to. If you wanted a private conversation with jr, and were unwilling to take public opinion on it- then you chose the wrong forum to address jr. You should have maybe emailed him directly.

When you came to this board, to our private email addresses and to other boards recruiting for membership, you opened yourself to criticism. Deal with it like a mature adult. I am suprised you didn't use the phrase "I'm rubber, your glue, whatever you say bounces off to me and sticks to you" since you used every other line in the book.

jr, great post. Maybe waa now realizes, you are very capable of wiping your own a*s.


waa, FYI, jr and I do not agree on everything and we have disagreed in the past on this board. Just because I agree with him on this point, doesn't mean I am wiping his a*s. If you want, take some time and review other threads. It is very commen when fellow posters agree with each other, they back each other up and add on to the points. I didn't just jump in on this when you attacked jr this morning; I gave you a thoughtful response which you chose not to address. Instead you whined, threw a tantrum, and yes, acted like a 3rd grader.

As you can see, we are all free thinkers on this site. We all joined this site after reading it for at least a few days. An opportunity you do not afford for us on your site.

My deeper question, what do you expect to happen after you blog about Bob's job loss. It really doesn't make sense to have an entire blog to simply whine about it. I don't think WSPD will care about the online petition either.

posted by alexandra at 10:57 A.M. EST on Fri Nov 18, 2005     #



WhiteAfricanAmerican is a bit sensitive. Got some thin skin. A bit of a lightweight for the message board arena.

Believe what ever you want if it makes you more secure about yourself there junior.

Yet, you will notice that waa never addressed the issue I brought up, nor did he answer the question about why it's a closed site for reading.

au contrer I've addressed it TWICE. I guess your inability to communicate efficiently extends to your ability to read too.

As to the whole controlling info 'issue' that too has been addressed, I'd suggest a course in remedial reading for you.

First, waa presumes to know how everyone here thinks.

Kinda like how you presume to know that everyone on rescuetoledo is a looser because they somehow choose not to conform to what your concept of a forum 'ought' to be?
BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Second, still waiting for that explanation. You see, we shouldn't have to ask waa to explain why the site is closed to reading. waa should open up and voluntarily give the reasons. They may good reasons, but we don't know if waa doesn't tell us.

We also know now that junior can't read. Oh well, perhaps if junior actually tried to read he might be able to extract his foot from his mouth.

I said anyone can manage a site anyway he or she wants. The problem I have is that you have been begging people here and at Toledo Tales and who knows where else, to come to your site.

First off, I came here to qualify the link that someone else out up. I belive it was lisarenee that presented the link first.

Secondly, I responded to you and your puerile comments and suggested that the issue is less a case of saving frantz, and more a case of are you (collectively) happy with the blade dominating what is establised as news in this town or not. A question, I might add, that you have yet to answer yourself. In some circles, junior, pitching a hissy fit while avoiding issues yourself, would make you the quintessential hypocrite.


But we cannot read it to decide if we want to sign up. If a person on his or her own stumbles onto your site and decides to sign up to check it out, that's one thing. But you're trying to recruit people sign up without giving us the option to read it. I'm all for more message boards, especially when they're concerned about the Toledo area.

Gee, Junior, how many ways can you say the same thing? I count three so far, and each time the answer remains the same. Oh well, I guess you suffer from selective amnesia too.


I'll apologize for my first loser comment in my first mention about your forum. It just pissed me off that I couldn't read it after someone else directed me to the site because I think Frantz was wrongly removed too. So I'm sorry I called your message board a loser site. (BTW, maybe Frantz can sue WSPD on the grounds of age or viewpoint discrimination.)

Now we come to the crux of the matter. FYI, you referred to those that frequent the site as loosers on two occasions, the second was to justify your original position.

Notice, that "it pissed you off". Because this site's management choose to operate differently, you get pissed off.


To what end?

Did it occur to you that perhaps one of the reasons they chose to have folks to register, is to do away with a few trolls who have essentially spammed previous sites that frantz set up to death, that perhaps the IP's of these trolls have been logged. Therefore by having people register, they can ID these trolls before they become a problem?

Now, why does all this sound familiar? Oh, yeah that's right, because I've said it before!

Well that's obvious, since I'm responding to you.

OOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooo that's some razor sharp wit you have there junior, did you think that one up all by yourself?

Is it just me, or did the Nazis that signed up and posted here last month behave better and were more coherent than WhiteAfricanAmerican? And I never banned the Nazis. That brings up another point.

Wow, now I'm worse than a Nazi? Am I now supposed to feel hurt? I wonder if my behaviour is worse because you were intellectually superior to them, but now that you've run into someone more obstinant than you are, that now it becomes necessary for you make comments like that.

Like I said, you are pathetic.

Bill White's Nazi site Overthrow.com is open for anyone to read, but the Toledo Conservatives message board is not. Is WhiteAfricanAmerican typical of what exists at that Toledo Conservatives message board? I didn't think being so closed with information was the conservative way. Rescue Toledo sounds like a great idea.

That's four.

Do you have an original thought at all, or are you so bent out of shape that you don't have carte blanche access that you have to keep repeating yourself?


WhiteAfricanAmerican, I don't care how you manage your site. Barries to entry, they differ from site to site. Some have low barries where anyone can post without any registration like Joel On Software. Some have medium barriers that require users to create an account with a valid e-mail address in order to post to the site, like Digg.com. And others have high barriers where a user has to create an account in order to read the site, like The Well. All are fine.

So why then is it necessary for you to wig out four times about the access controls the owners of the site have chosen to establish?


I used to have an account with The Well. It cost $10 a month. The Well has been around in some form since the mid-1980's. You can read more about this classic message board in Wired.com's The Epic Saga of The Well .

See this map, see that tiny island in the middle of the Pacific? That's where the people who care live.

For someone who has sooooooooooo much experience with message boards you sure know how to bitch about something as insignificant as a registration requirement.

WhiteAfricanAmerican, you are going around to different sites and demanding that people go to Toledo Conservatives and sign up.

Demanding?

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

As for the different sites, let's see.

There's FrantzRantz, where I've been a regular for over 2 years.

This one, and the only reason I commented here as because someone else posted a link, and I thought it might be an idea to qualify the posting

And one other blog there some anonymous user posted a link, and I decided to give it a face with my blog ID.

Yah.....you're right I have been to different sites (all THREE of them) and DEMANDED people join

You've just graduated from pathetic to miserable. Get your facts straight junior, there's a good chap.

That's fine. Except some of us would like to read it first. Why require registration to read
the site?


....And that makes FIVE.

I thought you were the message board god?
I thought you've been on sites where they require you pay $10.
I thought you didn't have an issue how people chose to establish their site?

Seems to me that you have more of an issue with how rescuetoledo is run than you choose to admit.


You'd have to expect some criticism over this.

And by criticism you mean being branded a 'looser' by..........you????

BWAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I can understand needing registration to write to the site in order to cut down on the noise. Nobody is debating that. That's why I require registration here, and why I disabled the "Guest" account earlier this year.

Ok, so now you do understand the need to register??

Man, you are hysterical.

You're going to get criticism at times. It's the nature of managing a message board. You need to learn to take it.

You can't even make up your mind over whether you understand or don't under why rescuetoledo
has a registration, now you presume to lecture me about taking criticism?

You haven't presented ANY valid criticism, other than labelling the operators as 'loosers'.

posted by WhiteAfricanAmerican at 12:05 P.M. EST on Fri Nov 18, 2005     #



I can respond to posts on this message board as I so choose to. If you wanted a private conversation with jr, and were unwilling to take public opinion on it- then you chose the wrong forum to address jr. You should have maybe emailed him directly.

Odd, seems to me you're the one telling me I ought to be banned because i gave jr a taste of his own medicine? So much for being unwilling to take public opinion. Makes you as much of a hypocrite as junior seems to be.


When you came to this board, to our private email addresses and to other boards recruiting for membership, you opened yourself to criticism. Deal with it like a mature adult. I am suprised you didn't use the phrase "I'm rubber, your glue, whatever you say bounces off to me and sticks to you" since you used every other line in the book.

Nice to see you have no arguement again, there alex. I can take criticism any day of the week, however, branding a group of people as 'loosers' because they are not "mini-me's" is not criticism, by any stretch of the imagination.

jr, great post. Maybe waa now realizes, you are very capable of wiping your own a*s.

Personally, i'm of the opinion that Junior's post was full of holes, as I've demonstrated. But good job on propping him up, too bad his arguement can't stand by itself though.


waa, FYI, jr and I do not agree on everything and we have disagreed in the past on this board. Just because I agree with him on this point, doesn't mean I am wiping his a*s.

Right, that's why you got involved in a tit for tat that didn't involve you.

What ever you say alex.


If you want, take some time and review other threads. It is very commen when fellow posters agree with each other, they back each other up and add on to the points. I didn't just jump in on this when you attacked jr this morning; I gave you a thoughtful response which you chose not to address. Instead you whined, threw a tantrum, and yes, acted like a 3rd grader.

Hold on, let me go and review...............nope you're wrong. Not supprising.

You made a 4 line comment on the manner in which rescuetoledo is run, and I responded to you and everyone else, pointing out that this isn't about Frantz that it's about a greater issue, namely media domination by the blade.

But then I guess if I really really streatch reality for a second, I can see why you'd think I was ignoring you.

As you can see, we are all free thinkers on this site. We all joined this site after reading it for at least a few days. An opportunity you do not afford for us on your site.

Which I have explained now about twice.

My deeper question, what do you expect to happen after you blog about Bob's job loss. It really doesn't make sense to have an entire blog to simply whine about it. I don't think WSPD will care about the online petition either.

Do you even care?

Judging by the response on Frantz's blog, some folks thought it'd be a good idea to attempt to harness the outrage and channel it in a direction that might actually benefit Frantz ,his audience and most noteably the public.

However, it required actually getting up off one's ass and doing something. Thus it appears it's doomed even before it began.

Too bad really. At least there were a number of people that TRIED to do something.

posted by WhiteAfricanAmerican at 12:25 P.M. EST on Fri Nov 18, 2005     #



Final comments for you to chew on.....

Joining a blog does not constitute "getting off your ass and doing something".

Do I care about Bob Frantz?

Absolutely. Bob Franz had an excellent show. I appreciated him, and even when I disagreed with him, I thought he covered topics very well.

I don't listen to WSPD in the morning or the afternoon anymore. If enough ratings drop, then maybe that will say something to WSPD... I have also written several letters to WSPD. It's my opinion that this is much more productive. I don't need a blog board to make sure I announce to everyone how much I am doing. WSPD doesnt care about the blog, WSPD doesnt care about your petition.

You were asked to explain a simple reasoning behind your choice to close off your site to the public. And again, you still haven't answered it. If you are not the group owner, than you hardly have an backbone to even sit here and defend it. Perhaps if there was an open forum for guests to visit, maybe we might see it as a productive tool; but we wouldn't know, would we?

This is no longer worth discussion as far as I am concerned. You like to talk circles without really saying anything. I would tell you to grow up, but you are probably afraid of heights. (Ooooooooooooooooooooooo, good one, right? I learned it from the best!)

posted by alexandra at 01:12 P.M. EST on Fri Nov 18, 2005     #



Actually, waa you have never answered the question.

For the final time: Why require registration to read the site?

You keep talking about spamming and such, but how can people spam and troll on a site when they're just reading it?

You're reason for requiring registration is:

"Did it occur to you that perhaps one of the reasons they chose to have folks to register, is to do away with a few trolls who have essentially spammed previous sites that frantz set up to death, that perhaps the IP's of these trolls have been logged. Therefore by having people register, they can ID these trolls before they become a problem?"

I'll go slow. A person who only reads a site cannot troll and spam on that site. Trolling and spamming requires writing.

Once again, we understand the need to require registration when it comes to posting. But the question still remains, why require registration to read the site? And that is a question, no matter how many times I ask it, that you have not answered.

I'll admit that calling the rescue Toledo forum a "loser site" was a bit strong, since I have not read it. Anti-social or closed-source might be better terms. I quickly lose patience with websites. Faced with a login page to read rescue Toledo got to me, and I sounded off a bit harsh with "losers" or "loser site."

And you can infer whatever you want from my comments, but I didn't call you a Nazi. I simply found the comparison amusing. Toledo Conservatives vs Nazis. One closed to reading and the other open. I don't see how being a closed-to-reading discussion site is a way to rescue Toledo.

But I certainly enjoy reading your entertaining responses here, although I have the sudden urge to donate money to MoveOn.org and increase my subscription to the Toledo Blade.

posted by jr at 01:31 P.M. EST on Fri Nov 18, 2005     #



Joining a blog does not constitute "getting off your ass and doing something".

Creating one does, as well as creating a petition, as well as asking, and siging one.

Do I care about Bob Frantz?
No, do you even care what the 'reasons' were for the attempt to get frantz reinstated were.

Absolutely. Bob Franz had an excellent show. I appreciated him, and even when I disagreed with him, I thought he covered topics very well.

Uh huh


I don't listen to WSPD in the morning or the afternoon anymore. If enough ratings drop, then maybe that will say something to WSPD... I have also written several letters to WSPD. It's my opinion that this is much more productive. I don't need a blog board to make sure I announce to everyone how much I am doing. WSPD doesnt care about the blog, WSPD doesnt care about your petition.

By the same token then WSPD doesn't care about your letter or the fact that you stopped listening........unless more people write letters and more people stop listening, then they will start to care.

And, by the same token, if more people signed the petition, WSPD would start to care to.


You were asked to explain a simple reasoning behind your choice to close off your site to the public. And again, you still haven't answered it. If you are not the group owner, than you hardly have an backbone to even sit here and defend it.

One, there are a few owners of the site,
Two, experience has taught me, when people run out of things to say, they start to get nitpicky about the use of grammar. A favourite is when people use the word "I" alot. Given the 'looser' comment, I chose not to provide any more ammo than was necessary.

"Perhaps if there was an open forum for guests to visit, maybe we might see it as a productive tool; but we wouldn't know, would we?"

I don't know what you're on about, you were registered there, so I don't get what all this sanctimonious b/s is.

It's a freakin username and an email address for crying out loud. It's not as if you don't have one that you use for spam and forums like this.

Or do you think I use my personal email address that is spam free to get access to this site?

I mean we all know how vastly more intelligent you and junior are than I am. So, it goes without saying that if I have 5 email accounts which I use for this sort of thing, you two have the same thing.

This is no longer worth discussion as far as I am concerned. You like to talk circles without really saying anything.

All I do is respond, line for line, to what you say. So, if you think I'm talking in circles, you ought to asess what your saying.


I would tell you to grow up, but you are probably afraid of heights. (Ooooooooooooooooooooooo, good one, right? I learned it from the best!)

And you're unoriginal too.

posted by WhiteAfricanAmerican at 02:18 P.M. EST on Fri Nov 18, 2005     #



Actually, waa you have never answered the question.

For the final time: Why require registration to read the site?

You keep talking about spamming and such, but how can people spam and troll on a site when they're just reading it?



Hehehheheheeh, you're setting your self up, you do realise that?

You're reason for requiring registration is:

Yup, u sure did, here let's put that in perspective:

First you said:
Actually, waa you have never answered the question.

Then you say:
You're reason for requiring registration is:

LOL

I'll go slow. A person who only reads a site cannot troll and spam on that site. Trolling and spamming requires writing.

See, this is where this internet god thing comes in. I never thought about that. I thought that I'd make it registration from the get go, log the IP's and delete any of the regular trolls that showed up. And so far it's worked pretty well. We've had quite a few of them show up.

Seems to work ok for the 50 odd who have signed up. Haven't had any of them complain about it.

Perhaps they aren't as 'sensitive' to creating an account as you are.

*shrug* Whatcha gonna do.

Once again, we understand the need to require registration when it comes to posting. But the question still remains, why require registration to read the site? And that is a question, no matter how many times I ask it, that you have not answered.

No, actually I have, you're just splitting hairs.
The answer remains that it's a preemptive measure to minimize trolls.

no matter which way you do it, the trolls stay out.


I'll admit that calling the rescue Toledo forum a "loser site" was a bit strong, since I have not read it. Anti-social or closed-source might be better terms. I quickly lose patience with websites. Faced with a login page to read rescue Toledo got to me, and I sounded off a bit harsh with "losers" or "loser site."

Took you long enough. What I don't get, is that you tell me that you have no problem paying $10 to be part of a forum, but then you have an anuerism when you come across another site that wants you to give it a handle and an email address.

You have issues old man.

And you can infer whatever you want from my comments, but I didn't call you a Nazi. I simply found the comparison amusing. Toledo Conservatives vs Nazis. One closed to reading and the other open. I don't see how being a closed-to-reading discussion site is a way to rescue Toledo.

Uh huh what ever you say man.

But I certainly enjoy reading your entertaining responses here, although I have the sudden urge to donate money to MoveOn.org and increase my subscription to the Toledo Blade.

That's just lame old man, you and I both know you'd swallow toxic waste before that would happen.

posted by WhiteAfricanAmerican at 02:29 P.M. EST on Fri Nov 18, 2005     #



WAA, do you log the IPs of everyone who signs up? Or just those belonging to the trolls?

Also, what type of behavior makes a troll on your board?

posted by valbee at 02:46 P.M. EST on Fri Nov 18, 2005     #



"What I don't get, is that you tell me that you have no problem paying $10 to be part of a forum, but then you have an anuerism when you come across another site ..."

Please. Apples and oranges. You can't compare any other site to The Well.

"That's just lame old man, you and I both know you'd swallow toxic waste before that would happen."

I donated a little green to Howard Dean's campaign in early 2004. Does that count?

posted by jr at 03:39 P.M. EST on Fri Nov 18, 2005     #



WAA, do you log the IPs of everyone who signs up? Or just those belonging to the trolls?

Just the trolls, actually the IP's we have came from a previous forum. And we picked them off as they registered on the new forum.

Also, what type of behavior makes a troll on your board?

I know where you're going with this, I wasn't born yesterday. Sorry, I aint playin

posted by WhiteAfricanAmerican at 05:40 P.M. EST on Fri Nov 18, 2005     #



If you know where I'm going with this, maybe you could enlighten me? I have no idea what you mean by that. I'm also not sure I deserved that response, given that this is the first communication between us. You're not making a very good first impression.

Thanks for at least answering my IP question.

posted by valbee at 08:16 P.M. EST on Fri Nov 18, 2005     #



Hey - isn't this a Bob Frantz thread????

Toledo Tales has Bob's first interview since the Clear Channel axe fell.

Toledo Tales - your number one source of specious news!

posted by Subcomandante_bob at 09:34 P.M. EST on Fri Nov 18, 2005     #



"Hey - isn't this a Bob Frantz thread????"

It certainly isn't about civil discourse anymore...

posted by Hooda_Thunkit at 09:45 P.M. EST on Fri Nov 18, 2005     #



I'm taking back control of the thread.

Yes it was me who posted the link to the Conservative Toledo Board, I also stated while you had to register you did not have to be a conservative to participate. If that was a requirement I'd never be allowed.

I understood why the site was based on an approval method and I did not have a problem with it. Not only was I approved but I'm a moderator there now. If it was anti-liberal? They would not have asked me. I've made my reasons for wanting Bob back very clear not only because of my husband but because I feel Bob did provide a view point that now that he and Denny are both gone is missing. Even I realize we need balance.

It's my fault you were emailed Alexandra because I personally stated I knew you from here and that you might be interested in helping. So for that I apologize. WAA and Don didn't know you but I did. Jr, I think you were unfair in calling them losers because they were being cautious. If you really wanted to sign up it is rather painless and you could have remained somewhat anonymous as others have who do post there. Worst case scenario since Waa does not post here? I would have been asked and as I said with Alexandra (since I'm using her as an example) as well as a few others - YEP I know them and they are cool.

There are people playing games posting comments on blogs claiming to be who they are not so I don't blame Waa and SouthToledoDon for being cautious under the circumstances, especially during the intial planning stages.

But I'm going to keep helping them to do what we can to get Bob back. Not only for a man that I happen to love but because I believe whether I agree with Bob or not? We need alternative voices in Toledo and Brian Wilson is not going to cut it as an alternative voice.

End of this Lisa rant and I will continue to wear my "token liberal" badge with honor.

:-)

posted by psyche777 at 12:39 A.M. EST on Sat Nov 19, 2005     #



The first comment to this pile of bilge said it all when historymike said:

"... but radio is a fickle industry."

Boom. Done. That summed it up. That's about all we needed to know.

Bob Frantz got screwed. We all know that. Guess what, a lot of people get screwed in their workplace, and we never hear about it. Wasn't there a lot of Convergys talk here about people at that company getting screwed? How many people get reamed, and it never makes the paper, the radio, a blog, etc?

Frantz will be fine in whatever he does and wherever he goes. I'm not worried about Frantz. He has his ratings on his resume. The jokers at WSPD can't take away his numbers.

It does suck that we don't have any local talk radio, but guess what, life does go on. Plenty of other radio stations to listen to even if they aren't local.

All of our local newspaper websites and the sites of our local TV news stations combined with Toledo area bloggers will have to suffice for local info and discussion. Mix in a continued increase in independent and Big Media podcasting, and you probably won't miss local talk radio.

posted by jr at 01:46 A.M. EST on Sat Nov 19, 2005     #



Finally remembered the name of that guy that was on later at night, although don't know if he;s on wspd any more-Michael Savage. He's syndicated, so I've listened to him on other stations, even if 'speedy' dropped him, I'll still be able to pick him up somewhere. Anybody ever listen to him? Don't always agree with him, but the guy is sure passionate about his beliefs. He says "Where have all the conservatives gone?" I pretty much agree with that, when he says we that tend to be more conservative really have no one in office speaking for us anymore, as everyones trying to appeal to the middle-Repubs, that is. While I think there are some in politics, this state is owned and operated by RHINOS for the most part.
posted by Foolkiller at 05:12 A.M. EST on Sat Nov 19, 2005     #



Bob Frantz speaks (sort of). Read his thoughts on the recent changes at WSPD.
posted by Subcomandante_bob at 11:17 A.M. EST on Sat Nov 19, 2005     #



I don't know how Jr got connected to the TFP for their monthly meetings, but it seems like it was a good move and we'll see how it all turns out over time. I'd bet that TT's reader base expanded slightly, which is always a good thing (provided Jr can foot the bandwidth bill).

Frantz is also connected to the TFP. That's probably another good idea. I personally don't like Frantz and his support for American Imperialim is disgusting to me, but it's undeniable that he has a good head on his shoulders, hence I must place significant value on that fact.

I don't know where Frantz and TT are going. It's not really for me to make blatant plans for them. Frantz probably did get screwed at work, but like the Rest Of Us, he's found out that he's just an employee at will, so it's up to him to secure his life's goals while his work situation is uncertain. He at least has an obviously loyal audience and much can be done with such a base of support.

And the same thing applies to TT. Jr can take this thing in any direction he sees fit. His readership has grown to the point where outside projects can be implemented. The Blade is weakening, the TFP is still a niche product, and overall paper media is suffering (perhaps giving ground to online forums and sources). TT could be at a crux where certain decisions could have profound results within a 2-yr period.

I can only and humbly advise people like Jr and Frantz to carefully husband their public reputations and make small moves toward audience expansions. Think of them as small businesses that have solid products and are working on building brand loyality. This is the kind of thing that political parties have given up over the years, which is ALSO another mental vacuum that such forums can fill.

posted by GuestZero at 04:08 A.M. EST on Sun Nov 20, 2005     #



Absolutely brilliant analysis, GuestZero.

The natures of journalism and communication are rapidly changing, as the number of people who rely on the traditional media for information falls. I subscribe to the Blade, but mostly so my wife can do the crosswords. When I feel the need to actually read something from it, more often than not I read the online version.

I agree that jr has in his hands a diamond-in-the-rough (or whatever cliche' you would like to use). I believe that forums like this will play an increasing role in communication in the next decade, and that ToledoTalk could become a profitable enterprise should jr wish to bring his offspring into the commercial world.

posted by historymike at 10:49 A.M. EST on Sun Nov 20, 2005     #



Good comments, once again, GZ. If Toledo Talk had a board of directors, besides my two cats, you'd have to be on it. Actually, some kind of a "board" would be a good idea at Toledo Talk. I'm surprise no one has ever brought it up before.

I'm talking in terms of a "board" or whatever protecting all that's been written here. Protecting it from me. Nothing exists to prevent me from pulling the plug on this site. In a flash, all of the time invested by people reading and writing to this site would be gone. I have no plans to end this site, but what if I drink a bad batch of Guinness that causes me to wig out?


TFP editor Michael Miller asked Toledo Talk to "sponsor" community forums. The only requirement from Toledo Talk was to mention the location and time of the monthly forums. That's about it. I think Miller said he got the idea for the forums from someone he knew at a newspaper in Pennsylvania.

I believe the so-called "partnership" is merely a basic example of traditional journalism working more closely with concerned citizens. And that's a good thing. At this site, we point to all kinds of media sources, and it's possible that ideas for future TFP stories come from what people are saying here.

Historymike is an example of combining traditional and citizen journalism by writing for both the TFP and for his own blog. This kind of activity will continue to grow. It doesn't mean you have to write for a paper. Just give up a little time once in a while to attend a city council, school board, or development meeting or attend any kind of event. Take some pics and notes and report back on your own blog. The Toledo area has its own active and growing blogosphere with interesting postings. I wish more of them spent a little time writing about local issues.

At Toledo Talk, I wish there was more conversation about issues in other communities in northwest Ohio and southeast Michigan. I said before somewhere here that the name Toledo Talk probably turns off people from other communities. I put "Toledo" in the site name, thinking it would make the site more indentifiable to area residents if it showed up in their favorite search engine.

The plan from the beginning was to rely on search engine traffic. Most of the traffic a couple years ago and maybe last year too was from people coming to Toledo Talk via a result in one of the major search engines. I base those beliefs on the few times I edited the web server log files back then. I don't do any log file analysis. The hosting company provides some simple stats, like page requests per day, but the data is cleared out every week or two.


Traditional journalists will always be needed. They have the time and resources to cover the stories. It's their job. I believe newspapers that focus more on local news and issues will be better off. I can get national news and analysis anywhere on the web. But only a few options exists to find out what's happening in our local communities. How much time does the evening local TV news actually spend on local news, issues, and events?

GZ suggested:

"I can only and humbly advise people like Jr and Frantz to carefully husband their public reputations and make small moves toward audience expansions."

Small moves indeed. When this site started in Jan 2003, I promised to give it at least a year of consistent posting. Some others joined in the conversation. After one year, I decided to give it one more year. And last year, more people joined in the talk. Back in Jan of this year, I decided to let the site go indefinitely. For whatever reason, traffic in Feb and Mar of this year started picking up, and it's had a continued, steady increase since.

The site is still quite small, and that's fine. I never set any goals about traffic or users or anything like that. One goal of the site has been met: I can do more reading instead of writing. Other people are finding interesting topics to post. The best thing is to let others decide what direction the site goes, to let it evolve naturally, and to think long term. No business plan here. I view the time and money spent with the site as some kind of community service or simply a hobby.

Here's an essay from last week about someone starting a community journalism site called H2Otown for Watertown, MA.

posted by jr at 01:46 P.M. EST on Sun Nov 20, 2005     #



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