Interesting news...
Does anyone think a change in ownership would change the climate at the Blade?
posted by lloyd at 04:22 P.M. EST on Fri Feb 17, 2006 #
Yes, any change over what is there now will be an improvement.
Those politicans better use those airline tickets before it's too late.
posted by BrianInFlorida at 04:45 P.M. EST on Fri Feb 17, 2006 #
Could it be said that if the sale of the Blade is partially caused to labor negotiations, that unions hurt small business? That would seem to be the case, but the Blade seems to have bigger problems than labor.
Also, the Toledo Free Press seems to be doing very well. The last couple of episodes have been very thick. I'm glad to see they are selling advertising.
posted by lloyd at 05:05 P.M. EST on Fri Feb 17, 2006 #
I repeat what Brian said-ANY change of hands would be an improvement-since it couldn't possibly be more biased or manipulating than it is now-even if George Soros bought it. Maybe we could even go back to halfway honest elections & issues. People are slowly...ever so slowly...starting to wake up, but not fast enough. This is probably too good to be true.
posted by Foolkiller at 05:10 P.M. EST on Fri Feb 17, 2006 #
Wow, thanks HM, this really made my day.
Getting the Blocks out of newspaper in Toledo would be the best thing that could happen. It would be a huge turning point both practically and symbolically.
The only thing that would be better is if it dissolved completely so we wouldn't even have the same paper name or the same organizational culture.
posted by babbleman at 10:17 P.M. EST on Fri Feb 17, 2006 #
If the Blade is bought by one of the major chains, the paper would lose its independence and maybe its freedom to do investigative journalism.
The newspaper is a business, and the Blade needs to adapt to survive. Maybe take some ideas from Naples News and Lawrence Journal-World. LJWorld is quite a bit smaller than The Blade, so maybe the ideas for one paper won't work for another.
Read more about Lawrence Journal-World in this June 2005 New York Times article (login required) titled "The Newspaper of the Future."
"A related Web site, lawrence.com, is aimed at college readers. It allows visitors to download tunes from the Wakarusa Music Festival, find spirited reviews of local bars and restaurants and plunge into a vast trove of blogs."
"The steward of this online smorgasbord is Dolph C. Simons Jr., a politically conservative, 75-year-old who corresponds via a vintage Royal typewriter and red grease pencil while eschewing e-mail and personal computers. "I don't think of us as being in the newspaper business," said Mr. Simons, the editor and publisher of The Journal-World and the chairman of the World Company, the newspaper's parent. "Information is our business and we're trying to provide information, in one form or another, however the consumer wants it and wherever the consumer wants it, in the most complete and useful way possible." "
"Owned by the Simons family since 1891, The Journal-World is a small-town paper emphasizing small-town news, but it is hardly restrained by a small-town mentality. Indeed, at a time when newspapers big and small are facing financial and journalistic crossroads, media analysts say The Journal-World, with a circulation of just 20,000, offers guidelines for moving forward."
"The Simons family, through the World Company, enjoys an unfettered and often-criticized media monopoly in Lawrence. But the family has used that advantage to cross-pollinate its properties, ranging from cable to telephone service to newspaper and online publishing, and to take technological and financial risks that other owners might have avoided."
"Mr. Simons and his associates describe their overall goals as a shared belief in quality, a deep attachment to Lawrence as a community and a constant reinvention of their business's relationship with readers, viewers and advertisers."
"For as ambitious and creative as the Journal-World team is, the newspaper still offers a menu of stories that is relentlessly, sometimes numbingly, local. Weather, local trials, local sports and other local comings and goings dominate. Some critics say that controversial topics, like divisive land-use debates, are soft-pedaled in the paper's pages."
posted by jr at 10:22 P.M. EST on Fri Feb 17, 2006 #
Does anyone know who currently owns a controlling percentage of the Blade?
Don't be too quick in thinking things couldn't get any worse...
-Dan
posted by photodan at 01:30 A.M. EST on Sat Feb 18, 2006 #
Dan, was that a rhetorical question? Sounds like you know the answer. Please share
posted by billy at 07:09 A.M. EST on Sat Feb 18, 2006 #
I have read that there is quite a close relationship between toledotalk.com and The Toledo Free Press. So, forgive me for asking about some concerns.
I don't get The Blade out here, but I did googled the Toledo Free Press address.
It shows up as Toledo Edison/First Energy. Does that mean there is some collusion with the utility? What does that portend for a future without The Blade?
Plus, friends in the area tell me that there is Noe money involved with Toledo Free Press.
Are these rumors? Or is there any truth to Toledo Free Press being subsidized by a utility and REALLY funded by rare coins?
No one should celebrate The Blade's demise. Especially, if all you get is a bought and paid for weekly and a corporate owned daily.
Well, I wouldn't celebrate, and I'm not known to be exactly liberal. ;-)
posted by Erie_Island at 04:35 P.M. EST on Sat Feb 18, 2006 #
1. No, utilities do not own the Toledo Free Press. Tom Pounds is an independent publisher who is a veteran of the newspaper business, and he struck out on his own.
2. No, there is no Noe money in the Toledo Free Press. Pounds has repeatedly disabused people of the odd notion, but the stupid rumor continues to float. The rumor started in April after the Toledo Free Press ran an interview with Noe at the beginning of Coingate in which Noe took aim at the Blade. A few dimwits interpreted this as "evidence" that the Free Press was in bed with Noe, but it really reflects an effort to take advantage of getting the other side of the story. If Noe ended up lying in the interview, all that does is show that Noe is crooked. IF he lied...
3. The Free Press is no more "subsidized" by utilities than is any other media that accepts utility ad dollars. That's like saying the Blade is "subsidized" by DaimlerChrysler because it accepts Jeep ads, or WTOL is "subsidized" by McDonald's.
4. I do not know how you came up with your conclusions during a Google search. I was unable to make Google give the response that you found, Erie Island.
5. Full disclosure: historymike writes for the Toledo Free Press when he gets the journalistic muse, or when he begins to starve.
6. historymike is not subsidized by anyone. Anyone who wants to subsidize historymike should contact him at: mbrooks AT utnet DOT utoledo DOT edu. He will be happy to allow himself to be subsidized, especially if it allows him to live a life of luxury and ostentatious wealth.
:-}
posted by historymike at 06:14 P.M. EST on Sat Feb 18, 2006 #
I had no problem finding that on google.
Also, I found this on Google, as well.
http://www.sbn.com/listings/419/list/022670_1.html
Noe Bernadette Restivo
300 Madison Ave
Toledo, OH 43604-1561
(419) 243-6281
Do you see where people get all of these stupid ideas?
posted by Erie_Island at 06:57 P.M. EST on Sat Feb 18, 2006 #
I don't understand what you are saying. You posted something from an Interent Yellow Pages site on Bernadette Noe. What does this mean?
Also, WHAT did you type in on Google to show a link with the Free Press?
posted by historymike at 07:22 P.M. EST on Sat Feb 18, 2006 #
OK, never mind, it dawned on me.
"300 Madison Avenue" is the Edison Building.
I get it. Same building as the Free Press.
When you said "address" I was thinking the Internet address. My bad.
posted by historymike at 07:40 P.M. EST on Sat Feb 18, 2006 #
Erie_Island said:
"I have read that there is quite a close relationship between toledotalk.com and The Toledo Free Press."
Is rumor mongering a hobby of yours? Close in what way? You read that where?
I put a link at the top of this website a week or so before the TFP's monthly community voices forum. And on the forum flyer, the name ToledoTalk.com is included. That's it. That doesn't sound like a "quite a close relationship" to me.
Erie_Island, back on September 15, 2005, you claimed Toledo Talk partnered with the Toledo City Paper. Can you tell me if Gannett has acquired Toledo Talk?
You seem to know more about what's happening with Toledo Talk than I do. Since I'm obviously not being invited to the meetings with the free doughnuts and bagels, can you at least send me an e-mail to let me know what's happening?
Back in September, Fuselighter said:
"I can't speak for anything JR is doing with CP, but there is no operating partnership with Toledo Free Press. We are teaming with Toledo Talk on a series of neighborhood forums, but there is no financial partnership."
Does that qualify as a "quite a close relationship?"
posted by jr at 11:50 P.M. EST on Sat Feb 18, 2006 #
The Blade financial rumors always tend to rear their heads during negotiation time. I will only believe it when I see it. If they actually cared about the losses, why have they have not done anything after years of trouble?
posted by chrismyers at 10:45 A.M. EST on Sun Feb 19, 2006 #
Michael Miller here from Toledo Free Press.
Since our inception, we have heard these rumors:
1. Another newspaper chain is funding us to one day supplant The Blade.
2. The Blade started us to drive City Paper out of business.
4. A consortium of millionaires founded us to plant stories against political enemies.
None of those rumors are true. Nor is there any close partnership with ToledoTalk, other than co-sponsoring the open forums, which involves no money or trade or compensation for either side.
If anyone has any questions about our business, they are welcome to call me at (419) 241-1700, ext. 2 or e-mail me at mmiller@toledofreepress.com. If I can't answer your questions, our publisher can. Also, I am vailable at each Community Voices forum to talk. I'm the cynical-looking fat guy at the head table, feverishly communicating with the Noe, Block and Bush families on my 2-way wrist radio.
posted by Fuselighter at 10:53 A.M. EST on Sun Feb 19, 2006 #
"You seem to know more about what's happening with Toledo Talk than I do. Since I'm obviously not being invited to the meetings with the free doughnuts and bagels, can you at least send me an e-mail to let me know what's happening?"
jr. We don't have doughnuts and bagels, but I have noticed that after eating the brownies that I tend to think wierd thoughts.
:-)
I would rather like to monger up some $$$, like HM, rather than monger up rumors.
Gosh. sorry. I really didn't mean to imply any financial arrangements between TFP AND TT.
Also, I agree with your assessment of what a legacy media outlet should do to become more relevant in the 21st century.
Yours,
EI (mongerer)
posted by Erie_Island at 10:53 A.M. EST on Sun Feb 19, 2006 #
None of those rumors are true.
That's too bad. I really like option 1 :)
posted by babbleman at 11:16 A.M. EST on Sun Feb 19, 2006 #
"Michael Miller here from Toledo Free Press."
OOoooh! Now the big guns are here!
How about answering the questions, I have in this venue? Or are you unwilling to discuss this unless you are emailed or phoned privately?
1) What IS the connection between Forst Energy and Toledo Free Press? Are there any financial issues between First Energy and Toledo Free Press? Any? Frankly, I think that it is disingenuous to propound a series of exclamations that do not address the issue that I raised. Your readers need full disclosure. Right now they are suffering under the heel of the utility with whom Toledo Free Fress cohabitates. Or worse may be subsidizing. This is a very fair question. Fred on WSPD is screaming about the utility rates here. What is the Toledo Free Press reporting?
2) What ABOUT the fact that Bernadette Noe's office is ALSO in the same building? Is this a coincidence? Again, another issue that your readers should be informed about.
posted by Erie_Island at 06:19 P.M. EST on Sun Feb 19, 2006 #
Erie Island;
Offering my contact info was meant to be a public gesture, not a private one.
Edison's management runs the building in which our offices are located, but does not financially subsidize the paper. They don't even regularly run ads. We have recently purchased a Downtown building and will move into our own offices before summer.
There are numerous offices in the Edison building; banks, law firms, utilities, etc. I do not know what business, if any, the Noes operate from 300 Madison Ave., but it has nothing to do with us.
We have run 3 cover stories on the utilities, electric and gas, trying to get explanations on the bills and profits and amounts. We do not "scream" about anything; we report.
And since you are so interested in full disclosure, why not tell us why you have such a chip on your shoulder about us? Why the confrontational approach?
You are welcome to keep the details of your "little gun" issues to yourself.
posted by Fuselighter at 06:48 P.M. EST on Sun Feb 19, 2006 #
Erie Island,
300 Madison Avenue is a multi-tenant building with a diverse tenant base. If you had an office in the 5/3 Bank building downtown, you wouldn't be forced to bank with them. There is no conspiracy going on.
From the first 2 pages of a google search, here are some of the businesses that rent space at 300 Madison Avenue:
Toledo Chamber of Commerce
Anspach, Meeks Ellenberger, LLP
Toledo Area Small Business Association
Shindler, Neff, Holmes & Schlageter, LLP
Toledo Area International Trade Association
Bernadette Restivo Noe, atty
Pharmacy Benefit Management Institute
Deindoerfer, Todd L.,CPA
Findley, Davies & Co., benefits administration
Toledo Edison /First Energy
Toledo Free Press
and on, and on, and on.
posted by jimavolt at 07:08 P.M. EST on Sun Feb 19, 2006 #
fuselighter...
Thank you, sir. I appreciate you candor. However, money or some other consideration is changing hands between your media outlet and the utility. That is not helpful to your goals of objectivity.
I am VERY glad to learn that you are leaving 300 Madison, Ave.
jimavolt -- nice nick -- very electrifying ;-)
There is a world of difference between law offices located at a utility's residence and a media outlet that is expected to be "fair and balanced." -- Especially when it is a utility that is charging almost 30% more than the Michigan utility just minutes from your headquarters. Oh, I mean First Energy's headquarters, jimaVOLT.
posted by Erie_Island at 07:37 P.M. EST on Sun Feb 19, 2006 #
Well, having been to the Toledo Free Press offices? I'd rent there whether they were owned by Edison or not. It's no different than renting from 5 3rd or any of the other downtown businesses that rent out space in their office buildings, which would be most of them.
At the Edison building, the view is amazing, location excellent and the parking is easy to access. Not to mention a parking attendent that actually cares enough to make sure you know how to get where you are going.
Yes, the whole full disclosure thingy...I write a weekly column for the Free Press and? I'm not interested in anyone fully subsdizing me at this point. Unless of course it involves a full book and movie deal.
:-)
posted by psyche777 at 07:59 P.M. EST on Sun Feb 19, 2006 #
E.I., I definitely think you're over reacting and reaching to find conspiracy. If you're going to call the Free Press's objectivity into question, you should really have more than one piece of indirect, circumstantial evidence.
I'm not making an accusation but asking honestly. Would you have kept propagating this rumor if Michael Miller hadn't been here to answer your questions or would you have written the Free Press directly to get their answer?
-Dan
posted by photodan at 08:01 P.M. EST on Sun Feb 19, 2006 #
umm Erie, that's Jim's real name. Jim Avolt...I'd suggest you check his profile.
:-)
posted by psyche777 at 08:03 P.M. EST on Sun Feb 19, 2006 #
EI,
Sure didn't mean to give the impression that I'm in favor of First Energy or their pricing structure. I wrote because it's not fair of you to question the integrity of Mike Miller / Tom Pounds because their temporary rented office shares a roof with a company (or companies) you don't like.
If First Energy gave power away would TFP deserve praise for prudent office selection? The answer of course if no, one has nothing to do with the other.
posted by jimavolt at 08:11 P.M. EST on Sun Feb 19, 2006 #
Firstly.. If a newspaper, or other media has a finincial arrangement of ANY kind with a utility (other than paying their electric bill) - a UTILITY -- whether a great company, or not -- it is a very clear conflict of interest.
Also, psyche777, I am happy you think that TFP's digs are cool. However, it just isn't germain to this discussion.
And jimavolt, it IS indeed fair to question the management of a news organization regarding ANYTHING that may seem to impede their objectivity.
If all we have a re apologists here because everyone hates The Blade, then where does that leave the people of Northwest Ohio?
Answer: in a worse position than I thought before this discussion began.
posted by Erie_Island at 08:28 P.M. EST on Sun Feb 19, 2006 #
"If a newspaper, or other media has a finincial arrangement of ANY kind with a utility ([b]other than paying their electric bill) - a UTILITY -- whether a great company, or not -- it is a very clear conflict of interest."
That makes no sense. On what basis do you draw a distinction between buying electrical service and renting space? How does one overtly influence the objectivity of the Free Press while the other doesn't? As long as the Free Press is being charged the fair market value for both services that is available to any other client, there is no conflict.
I love that you so quickly label people with a contrary opinions apologists. You seem to judge many things without supporting your assertions.
-Dan
posted by photodan at 09:15 P.M. EST on Sun Feb 19, 2006 #
Location was I'm sure part of the reason that particular building was selected. The view is part of that which is why it is germain.
In real estate it is location, location, location...
I don't hate the Blade, I use them at times as a source. I think the main reason for the disdain with this particular topic is this is not the first time a company has magically threatened to sell when entering union contract negotiations. Especially when you are dealing with employees who have had their wages/benefits frozen and want increases and the Company wants more cuts.
However, it sounds like this is not the first time you've made these accusations against the Free Press. Doesn't appear you were right the last time when it came to Toledo Talk and I don't think you are right this time either.
posted by psyche777 at 09:16 P.M. EST on Sun Feb 19, 2006 #
EI,
Over the last couple of days on this very thread, you've:
Posted and then corrected rumors of the close relationship between Toledo Talk and Toledo Free Press;
Accused TFP of collusion with First Energy;
Rumored a Noe investment in the TFP (along with all the negative connotations that follow the word Noe); and,
Alleged additional TFP improprieties because Mrs. Noe rented space in the multi-tenant property that houses TFP's temporary offices.
That's hardly "questioning the management of a news organization". It's a shotgun approach to discrediting the TFP. Do you / did you work for the Blade ?
As for me, I think The Blade sucks primarily because of they slant news stories to agree with their editorial positions. If they rented space in a building I owned, The Blade would still suck.
posted by jimavolt at 09:24 P.M. EST on Sun Feb 19, 2006 #
So. That's what it's all about for you, isn't it jimavolt?
Since you hate The Blade, then you'll support anything and anyone who'll help you get vengence. AND, accuse me of complicity with the object of your hate.
I never corrected myself! Where did you see that? I simply made certain that jr knew that I did not make accusations regarding any financial connections Toledotalk might have with TFP. I said "close." That doesn't necessarily mean financial. However, there IS a relationship, isn't there?
It seems to me that I have hit a nerve here. From you reation, it seems that I must be on the way of the truth. The only person with a horse in this race is you, jimavolt and YOUR company First Energy. Whether The Blade sucks or not has no bearing on this issue.
You guys are robbing the people of Northwest Ohio. You can justify it in your mind anyway that allows you to sleep at night, but don't fool yourself into thinking that we don't know who to hold resposible.
Nightie-night
posted by Erie_Island at 10:19 P.M. EST on Sun Feb 19, 2006 #
Oh, and Dan, ask Michael how much they pay in rent. Maybe then we can judge objectivity. I would like to know what the "fair market" rate is. Wouldn't you?
posted by Erie_Island at 10:23 P.M. EST on Sun Feb 19, 2006 #
Silly me, and I thought this thread was about the Blade possibly being sold. I'd also point out to you Erie, that you might want to consider doing just a second of research. It's really easy...Click on Jim's profile. He has no connection to First Energy. He owns the Distillery...
:-)
posted by psyche777 at 10:38 P.M. EST on Sun Feb 19, 2006 #
...ask Michael how much they pay in rent. Maybe then we can judge objectivity. I would like to know what the "fair market" rate is. Wouldn't you?
I'm not the one attempting to impugn the Free Press. I suggest *you* do your research before continuing with your public assertion. The accuser should bear the responsibility of proof.
If you find they are receiving some special discount that nobody else can have then you have a valid concern and a cause to investigate further. Until then, you're just jumping to conclusions with zero proof, which isn't a strong leg to stand on.
posted by photodan at 10:44 P.M. EST on Sun Feb 19, 2006 #
Oh my gosh,
This questioning is crazy! Perhaps you should direct the badgering towards the Blade, for they seem to be more deserving of it.
posted by lloyd at 10:44 P.M. EST on Sun Feb 19, 2006 #
I also have to say if it wasn't for high speed internet Block Communications would be much worse off than it already is.
posted by lloyd at 10:46 P.M. EST on Sun Feb 19, 2006 #
Lake Erie;
I repeat: "Since you are so interested in full disclosure, why not tell us why you have such a chip on your shoulder about us? Why the confrontational approach?"
ToledoTalk already has one Anonymous Coward; I suppose there is room for another.
posted by Fuselighter at 04:13 A.M. EST on Mon Feb 20, 2006 #
ToledoTalk already has one Anonymous Coward; I suppose there is room for another.
HEY NOW! There's no call for that.
AC would like to note that the TFP is actually getting around Owens, while the TCP is missing in action. AC would also like to request the TFP start showing further afield from Toledo; hell, expand it out to Monroe, Wood, and Ottawa counties. It's actually worth reading compared to the Ottawa County Bacon.
posted by anonymouscoward at 05:09 A.M. EST on Mon Feb 20, 2006 #
fuelighter.
I honestly don't have a chip on my shoulder about anything in Lucas County. Now, for AC to deman the Ottawa County Beacon, well, that's another story! I will defend the Ottawa County Beacon with my very last breath, or in this case fingertip.
Anyway, fuselighter, Brian in Florida set the tone here, not me. jr had to respond to his rant. I was just adding to jr's point.
I read TFP on line. And I read The Blade online. I am DEFINATELY more unhappy with Blade's editorial positions than anything you have written. I get neither out where I live.
Fuselighter, you might be confusing the shock that I experienced by finally understanding the location of your offices with a "chip on my shoulder."
Full Disclosure is for those who claim to be journalists, not someone like me who is participating in a blog discussion with people who call themselves babbleman, anonymouscoward, etc. So, you can call me anonymous coward or whatever you like. That won't change the location of your offices and your First Energy relationship.
And yes, The Blade sucks!
posted by Erie_Island at 06:23 A.M. EST on Mon Feb 20, 2006 #
And yes, The Blade sucks!
EI, I knew we'd find common ground.
On a more serious note, I've heard that Mike Miller gets free extra sauce AND Parmesan cheese on his Marco's orders. Surely the TFP is in league with Big Pizza.
I've also read somewhere that Noe likes pizza.
There you have it - absolute proof of absolutely nothing.
posted by jimavolt at 07:48 A.M. EST on Mon Feb 20, 2006 #
Well, one thing we don't have in common is an attraction to lame metaphors.
There is no equivalence between pizza and a news organization accepting favors from a public utility. Additionally, I may be over-reacting to the Noes' office being in the same building, but it sure doesn't look good coupled with the lessor and lessee issue.
"If it looks like Duck..."
"Does it pass the smell test?"
Also, I am the only one, other than AC who doesn't have a dog in this race who has been commenting here. If jimavolt isn't First Energy, but IS a bar owner, then his opinion is as tainted as fuselighters.
posted by Erie_Island at 10:06 A.M. EST on Mon Feb 20, 2006 #
Erie Island You talk in circles, don't back up your rather bizarre comments and yet everyone else is wrong????
posted by bogeylola at 11:10 A.M. EST on Mon Feb 20, 2006 #
Bizarre?!
Fact: TFP is renting space from the local utility. I guess Toledoans must be so used to local corruption, and sick of Blade that they'll tolerate such an obvious conflict of interest by a local news organization.
In terms of talking in circles? That charge is indeed bizarre.
Don't you think that having a news business with a cozy relationship with a utility that is causing your local politicians to march on Columbus to demand election of the PUCO at least a little questionable? Granted Columbia Gas is part of the problem, but electricity costs scare business away from Toledo -- well, at least that is what the local radio stations are claiming.
All I have asked is the nature of the deal between First Energy and TFP.
We'll just give TFP the benefit of the doubt concerning Noe.
"Where there's smoke there's fire."
posted by Erie_Island at 11:52 A.M. EST on Mon Feb 20, 2006 #
You've also accused jimavolt of being tied into First Energy. You have no factual basis for any of your accusations.
posted by bogeylola at 12:06 P.M. EST on Mon Feb 20, 2006 #
"You have no factual basis for any of your accusations."
Is that so?
Is or is not First Energy renting space in their building to TFP?
Of course they are! How's that for "factual basis?"
You can blow all the smoke that you want, but it won't obscure the truth.
posted by Erie_Island at 12:32 P.M. EST on Mon Feb 20, 2006 #
I'm missing how a bar owner who is forced to pay higher utility bills that would have a direct impact on his business is somehow "tainted".
If anything if there were some sinister connection between TFP and First Energy he'd be the first one to have an issue with it.
You are trying to create "news" out of something that is not only not news but? Has nothing to do with the Blade possibly being sold. Unless of course First Energy is going to buy the Toledo Blade.
posted by psyche777 at 12:42 P.M. EST on Mon Feb 20, 2006 #
Right, their RENTING space. That, so far as I can see, is the only truth so far. My husband also rents space for his business, does that mean he's in collusion with his landlord???
posted by bogeylola at 12:47 P.M. EST on Mon Feb 20, 2006 #
As I said, we're moving into our own building before summer, so these concerns will be moot in six months. Although, we are moving next to Fifth Third Field, so I suppose there will be rumors we are being subsidized by Fricker's.
posted by Fuselighter at 12:57 P.M. EST on Mon Feb 20, 2006 #
"My husband also rents space for his business, does that mean he's in collusion with his landlord???"
If your husband is a member of the press, and is renting from a news maker, like First Energy, then yes! Journalists claim to have high standards of conduct. They are compelled by their code to reveal business arrangements with companies that they report on. fuelighter already admitted that TFP has reported on First Energy. If that is so, then the right thing to do is issue a disclaimer regarding any story that includes a mention of First Energy, or not report on First Energy issues, at all.
Can you imagine the uselessness of a media outlet that can't report on a local utility?
Think a litle more about this before you attempt to discredit the obvious fact that there is a business relationship between First Energy and TFP. That business relationship should have been disclosed LONG AGO. Now, that makes me wonder if there isn't some kind of sweatheart deal regarding rent, else TFP would have made a disclosure.
posted by Erie_Island at 12:58 P.M. EST on Mon Feb 20, 2006 #
Erie Island -
I agree with Bogeylola.
And, Fuselighter, although you've responded to the rumors of being subsided by Big Chicken money, you've yet to respond the the alleged collusion with Big Pizza. How about it, huh, huh, huh ? ?
Vengence will soon be mine, Bwwaaaahhhh, haaaa, haaaaaa. (evil laugh)
posted by jimavolt at 01:34 P.M. EST on Mon Feb 20, 2006 #
As I said, we're moving into our own building before summer, so these concerns will be moot in six months. Although, we are moving next to Fifth Third Field, so I suppose there will be rumors we are being subsidized by Fricker's.
The Toledo (Mud Hens) Free Press?
If they use Macs in the creation of their paper, does that mean they're in collusion with Apple?
For that matter, the student government and paper at Owens resides in the Block Center... and coincidentally right after that Buckeye Telesystems redid the entire phone system for Owens... I guess that means all calls to Owens are taped and Block listens in as part of a sinister plot to fsck over the area youth while making the administration at Owens even richer.
posted by anonymouscoward at 01:51 P.M. EST on Mon Feb 20, 2006 #
"As I said, we're moving into our own building before summer, so these concerns will be moot in six months."
Thank you, again, Michael.
The rest of the people on this thread obviously don't get it.
Michael said "these concerns." Notice that he didn't cast aspersions or deny.
posted by Erie_Island at 02:05 P.M. EST on Mon Feb 20, 2006 #
Erie Island I think your the one that doesn't get it.
posted by bogeylola at 02:11 P.M. EST on Mon Feb 20, 2006 #
Yes, since both are apparently part of his readership, Michael Miller has to "concern" himself with crackpots as well as rational people.
-Dan
posted by photodan at 06:30 P.M. EST on Mon Feb 20, 2006 #
So Dan, did you ask Michael how much the rent that TFP pays to First Energy?
Oh, that's right only a crackpot would "concern" himself with press honesty and full disclosure.
posted by Erie_Island at 08:01 P.M. EST on Mon Feb 20, 2006 #
It's not my job to verify *your* unsupported assertion.
Try doing your own homework, then maybe you'll find people more receptive.
-Dan
posted by photodan at 10:35 P.M. EST on Mon Feb 20, 2006 #
So the home offices of First Energy are at the Distillery, eh? Think of the office parties.
"I said "close." That doesn't necessarily mean financial. However, there IS a relationship, isn't there?"
Spin it all you want, but you're still wrong, Erie_Island. You're playing immature games with words. You're leaving out all intellectual honesty. You were wrong about me and the Toledo City Paper, and you're wrong about me and the Toledo Free Press. I know it's hard to admit to being wrong about something, but try it. You can do it.
Do you call seeing Miller once a month at the public community voices forum a relationship?
Erie_Island, you said:
"Anyway, fuselighter, Brian in Florida set the tone here, not me. jr had to respond to his rant. I was just adding to jr's point."
I have no idea what you're talking about with those two sentences. Where did I respond to BrianInFlorida's so-called rant? What rant?
My first comment in this thread was a little about the Blade and general one about the newspaper industry where I pointed out what was being done at Lawrence Journal-World.
Erie_Island, my second comment was a response to your misleading comment about a close relationship between Toledo Talk and Toledo Free Press, which does not exist. This is my third comment to this thread.
I had to respond to Brian In Florida's rant? From what I can tell, Brian only has one comment in this thread, and this is the entire comment:
"Yes, any change over what is there now will be an improvement."
"Those politicans better use those airline tickets before it's too late."
That's a rant? Two sentences is a rant? I had to respond to that? I don't think so. I was responding to the original topic. And really, my first comment in this thread isn't anything new from me. I've made similar statements about the Blade and the newspaper industry in previous topics.
posted by jr at 12:52 A.M. EST on Tue Feb 21, 2006 #
Well, it sorta was a rant of some sort, only because it will cost about $50 to change the destination from Pittsburg to the destination of the users choice, and JRB won't pay for it but he will claim the frequent flyer miles.
posted by BrianInFlorida at 04:34 A.M. EST on Tue Feb 21, 2006 #
jr.
Please reread the first three posts. I stand by my assertion. You were reponding to Brain and babbleman.
Also, I stand by the FACT that media doing business with a utility, other than paying the utility use charges, is VERY suspicious - especially Northwest Ohio.
I won't dig up all the discussion here (archived) about TFP and Toledotalk - and I don't mean where I accidentally used TCP, instead of TFP.
The intellectual dishonesty here is that which refuses to even consider such an obvious lack of disclosure - not mine. But it's your site, so whatever.
And Dan - "It's not my job to verify *your* unsupported assertion."
And you consider yourself some kind of journalist?
This is the problem with journalism in gerneral. It all depends on whose side one is, as to what is "my job."
posted by Erie_Island at 06:27 A.M. EST on Tue Feb 21, 2006 #
Dan,
I was also following up on your point that:
"Don't be too quick in thinking things couldn't get any worse..."
How worse?
Well, if babbleman had his way, then the Blade would disappear. If the Blade disappears, then what's left?
Well, I thought about that and looked a little closer at where 300 Madison St is.
Low and behold! The same address as the utility! All of you commenting here (other than me) must have known that all along and are fine with it. To someone who sees this from a distance, well...
So, I was really shocked by the reaction. I just didn't expect it.
posted by Erie_Island at 08:21 A.M. EST on Tue Feb 21, 2006 #
Erie;
We're not exactly USA Today in terms of building a world headquarters right out of the gate; no matter where we pay rent, there's going to be a landlord with a set of his/her/their business concerns, which are not allowed to interfere with the editorial process. In a building as big as the Edison Plaza, I'm not sure why you're shocked by a new business needing professional office space (which is, again, for your clarity, not subsidized).
Turn your questioning around; have you seen a series of "Edison rocks!" stories in our paper? Have we ignored the utilities issue? No on both counts. If you can isolate some editorial bias, I can address your concerns point-by-point, but this general sense of unease you have isn't justified by our coverage.
Once we're in our own building, we won't be near Edison's "influence"; just the bank that loans us money, the suppliers who sell us goods and services and the 800 advertisers and clients who support us. And we'll deal with each of them the same.
Say, did anyone hear the Blocks are open to selling The Blade?
posted by Fuselighter at 10:53 A.M. EST on Tue Feb 21, 2006 #
"Please reread the first three posts. I stand by my assertion."
You're pretty sure of yourself, aren't you? You keep changing your words. First you said I had to respond to Brian's rant, and now you claim I was responding to Brian and babbleman. Erie_Island, you can stand wherever you want, and I can still say you're wrong about what I said. So where is this rant you speak of that I supposedly had to respond to?
This isn't the first time sale of the Blade has come up. My first comment in this thread was a response to the topic and to anyone in the present or past who thinks selling the Blade is a good thing. Who knows, maybe it is? But ...
The people who clamor on about how we need independent businesses at Westgate or wherever, those same people should support the Blade's independence and not being sold to a chain. We hear how chain stores are ruining everything. Well, can't the same be said of newspaper chains?
Here is an October 31, 2003 posting I made titled "The Blade receiving credit." I quote from the news source that says:
"The Blade is rare in modern America in being owned by a wealthy local family, the Robinson Blocks, who have a strong commitment to investigative journalism. That means money and time is available for The Blade's reporters to bring in a major scoop."
In a comment to that 2003 topic, I said:
"A lot of us take shots at the Blade, but the newspaper is needed. Newspapers inform and help the public, and newspapers are good at uncovering corporate and government scams."
My February 24, 2004 comment in a Ray Kest topic:
"I believe most journalists are honest, and journalism would be a fascinating profession to be in. Some would like to see the Blade go, but I don't. We need a daily newspaper. It provides a community service. The good points of the Blade, such as local sports, religion, events calendar, the arts, food, and business, outweigh the few bad parts, which receive most of the attention."
"A newspaper is not all about investigative journalism and op-eds. Even without the front section, the Blade is still a good paper when we can get excellent articles like the one in today's Blade titled A taste of India. I'm a fan of Indian cuisine. Sunday's blade had a fine article on the local poetry/spoken word scene. I've attended a few open-mics, and it's cool experiecene, so it's nice that it's receiving some pub. And we need local sports and business coverage. I'm a big fan of outdoor writer Steve Pollick."
On June 21, 2005 in the topic about William Block Sr dying, I said
"What's wrong with a family-owned business? Is the Blade owned by some large media conglomerate that owns zillions of other newspapers? I don't think so. I think in the world of Big Media, the Blade is about as independent as a paper can get."
On September 13, 2005 I said:
"The Blade does have a certain amount of independence because its not owned by one of the big guns."
On November 14, 2005, I said:
"You must be reading a different version of the Blade than I read on-line and receive on the weekends. I like the second news and neighborhood news sections. I like the business section. I like the sports section and Steve Pollick's outdoor column. I like the tech and religion sections on Saturday. I like the Peach section. And I can't forget the food and arts coverage. It's a good paper for those topics. The op-eds, a couple of columnists, and the front page news doesn't add up to 99% suckage."
On November 28, 2005, I said:
"I like the Blade's sports, arts, religion, neighborhood news, and Peach sections. In this Sunday's paper, I enjoyed reading the articles written by Blade writers about migrating waterfowl along the lakeshore and about Jeff Daniels who lives just up the road in Chelsea. Plenty to read in the Blade besides politics. I'm guessing now, but I think the Blade bashing that's done here is restricted to only a small part of the paper. The bashing doesn't apply to everything the Blade writes, in my opinion."
On January 18, 2006, I made posting titled "Deconstructing the newspaper". It contained suggestions made by someone else on how to improve a newspaper with the main suggestion to improve a newspaper being to focus more on local news and info. I added to the posting:
"I still like holding a newspaper in my hands. I sometimes read the online editions of a newspaper. We get the Fri, Sat, and Sun print editions of The Blade. I ignore news stories, op-eds, and columns that are not specific to our local area because I can read about national and international issues online."
On January 26, I added a comment to that topic about the changes made to the NaplesNews.com, and the guy leading those changes came from Lawrence Journal-World.
On September 14, 2005, in a Blade-bashing thread, I added a comment:
"Has the Blade done anything different in their print or online versions to attract the 18-34 group? The Blade could learn from LJWorld.com and Lawrence.com, "The Newspaper of the Future." "
I think I've successfully proven my point when I said above: "... my first comment in this thread isn't anything new from me. I've made similar statements about the Blade and the newspaper industry in previous topics." I was clearly not targeting only one or two individuals with my first comment in this thread, like Erie_Island mysteriously claims I did.
Past postings here about the Blade possibly being sold and union contract news:
August 2003 posting:
"A Toledo Blade Spokesperson denies the company negotiators told the Toledo Newspaper Guild during contract talks that the paper could be sold if they don't get their way. The Blade is balking at a health care agreement."
"The Toledo Newspaper Guild says a great sacrifice may be required to force management to bargain fairly. A letter from Blade official Allan Block indicated that the talks are about the economic feasibility of the Blade continuing under Block Communications ownership, and that difficult financial times are making the negotiations difficult."
October 3, 2003 posting:
"A union representing reporters, drivers and other workers reached a tentative agreement Thursday with The Blade on wages and benefits. Contract negotiators still must work out some noneconomic issues, such as work rules, but both sides said resolving the economic items was a big step."
Another news story in Oct 2003:
"The majority of the Blade workers do not yet have a contract, despite the publicity given a tentative agreement on economic issues earlier. The Toledo Council of Newspaper Unions officials say most of the 650 workers still have no agreement on non-economic issues."
October 29, 2003 news:
"BCI faces negotiations with unions at both newspapers in 2006."
BCI, of course, being Block Communications.
From a February 23, 2004 WSPD news item:
"More talk about selling the Toledo Blade, and this time it comes from the Blade's managing director Alan Block, who in a letter to the employes says the attitude that the "Block's will never sell the Blade" is "unrealistic" because of current market pressures which could force a sale to a large chain."
"Alan Block says in that letter, that the "days are over" when one division, the cablevision division which he runs, will send profits to rescue the other and the Blade hasn't turned a profit since the early 1980's. Block informed the employes in that letter that the Blade "isn't healthy" and that no job will be secure until it is."
Erie_Island, as to the rest of what you say, building locations, rent, utility comanies, I don't know anything about those things. I'll leave that up to you and the rest to figure out what's going on.
I'm simply straightening out Erie_Island's misleading comments about Toledo Talk having a relationship with another business, and me supposedly being forced to respond to the invisible rant and, hopefully, contributing some to the original subject matter of this thread: possible sale of the Blade, and why I wouldn't like to see the Blade sold to a chain.
Who else would buy the Blade besides a chain?
posted by jr at 11:24 A.M. EST on Tue Feb 21, 2006 #
I dont take the blade, but I check the Blade.com every day. Most of the folks I know are the same, and I assume there are some posters out here who also fit that category.
Question - if in an effort to salvage itself, the Blade were to charge a monthly fee to access the blade.com, would any of you subscribe?
posted by billy at 12:50 P.M. EST on Tue Feb 21, 2006 #
Nope, same as I don't pay for online news from any other source. I already made the mistake a few times for paying for archived articles from the Blade, I then discovered that if you belong to the Toledo-Lucas County library you can access the archives for free online.
The New York Times recently made some of it's articles "premium content". So I don't read those journalists anymore.
posted by psyche777 at 12:54 P.M. EST on Tue Feb 21, 2006 #
I don't think charging a fee to read the on-line Blade would do much for the Blade. At the most, it would only slow a little the inevitable. It's a business that needs to adapt to the 21st century by combining print on paper, print on the web, audio, video, and feedback/contributions from readers. And it really needs to attract more people under the age of 40.
Some related topics posted here:
Media tidbits - June 14, 2005
Infotainment - November 18, 2004.
Newspaper circulations - May 3, 2005
Toledo Blade average daily circulation:
1996 - 147,365
1997 - 145,800
1998 - 146,138
1999 - 144,887
2000 - 137,792
2001 - 140,406
2002 - 140,628
2003 - 139,520
2004 - 139,346 Sunday circulation of 183,632
Also from that topic about newspaper circulations:
"Twenty-nine percent, or 239 daily newspapers, reported gains, mostly coming from small and mid-sized markets. Only three papers with circulations over 500,000 reported increases. Twenty-five percent of papers with circulation between 250,000 and 500,000 noted circ gains. For the 100,000-to-250,000 category, 25% showed growth, as did a quarter of the 50,000-to-100,000 category. Of those papers with circulation between 25,000 to 50,000, 30% showed growth. And finally papers with circulations of 25,000 or less faired the best, with 31.1% showing an increase."
Sounds simple, but from a business perspective, why not study the newspapers that are growing? Maybe they are doing something that the Blade can implement to increase its circulation.
posted by jr at 01:38 P.M. EST on Tue Feb 21, 2006 #
You're pretty sure of yourself, aren't you?
Yes. Very sure! And frankly, Michael, it isn't the content. You are very well aware that your news organization should have disclosed an unusual utility relationship in any story that you ran - favorable OR UNFAVORABLE to the ultility. And I stand by the fact that you were obligated to inform the public. Not after the fact, when I point it out in this forum.
"You keep changing your words. First you said I had to respond to Brian's rant, and now you claim I was responding to Brian and babbleman. Erie_Island, you can stand wherever you want, and I can still say you're wrong about what I said."
First, what you wrote, above, would be rant, jr. Frankly, your splitting hairs. The question was: "Why did I bring up this up in the context that I did." Not, that I specifically saw ONLY your response. What I said was true. You can attribute all the negative motivations to my concerns as you wish. It does not change the fact that TFP is renting from First Energy. And the FACT that at least I see it as a violation by TFP of the public's trust.
"So where is this rant you speak of that I supposedly had to respond to?"
jr. You are splitting hairs. Perhaps it's because I thought that toledotalk and TFP have a close relationship.
Yes. I said, "I have read that there is quite a close relationship between toledotalk.com and The Toledo Free Press. So, forgive me for asking about some concerns." If I hit a nerve, then sorry.
Now, for the FIRST time, Michael claims that TFP is paying an UNSUBSIDIZED rent to the utility. OK, as long as you are being truthful, Michael, then fine. However, if TFP does have some sweatheart deal with the utility, then you're the one who'll take the heat.
posted by Erie_Island at 02:56 P.M. EST on Tue Feb 21, 2006 #
E_I, did someone put something in your water? Or did they turn your tinfoil hat inside out so that the shiny side of the foil is "in", not "out" and reflecting the Evil Mind Control Space Lasers?
Sheesh.
posted by anonymouscoward at 03:36 P.M. EST on Tue Feb 21, 2006 #
Darn!
I knew I should have read those instructions!
Glad I paid attention to those Claymore instructions -- where it says: "This side towards enemy"
posted by Erie_Island at 04:12 P.M. EST on Tue Feb 21, 2006 #
It's not like the whole world disagrees with you, EI. Many haven't read your postings yet.
posted by bogeylola at 06:32 P.M. EST on Tue Feb 21, 2006 #
Some sweetheart deal if the TFP is moving into a different building.
No nerve was struck, Erie_Island. Don't give yourself that much credit. I can't stand bogus, baseless claims like you have made multiple times now about Toledo Talk.
jr -- Why did Toldeo Talk partner with ToledoCity Paper?? - a hit-and-run posting by Erie_Island on September 15, 2005. Erie_Island didn't respond anymore to that posting.
EI said:
"I was sad to see that Toledo Talk seems to have become another outlet for Toledo City Paper. Does the Toledo City Paper have some equity in Toledo Talk, or are they helping defray some your operating expenses? I hope that they are. In that case, survival is more important than all the high-falutin' ideals? It's just that the posts seem to have "TCP this" or "TCP that" a lot, now."
Lately, we've had a lot Ch 24 WNWO postings here, so I guess that means Toledo Talk has partnered with them too. And never mind the zillion links to the Toledo Blade.
I didn't want to let the cat out of the bag early, but Toledo Talk is purchasing the Toledo Blade. I'm the winner of that big powerball thingy this past weekend. I was visiting family in NE recently and I bought a ticket for the heck of it. I always thought, if I ever hit the big one, I'm going to buy a newspaper and a Mr. Microphone. First order of biz, is to hire several more outdoor writers, and put everything Steve Pollick writes on the front page above the fold.
posted by jr at 07:13 P.M. EST on Tue Feb 21, 2006 #
People keep worrying about the blade being bought out by a major chain.
How many papers does one have to own to become a chain? Arent the Block's a chain?
posted by billy at 07:33 P.M. EST on Tue Feb 21, 2006 #
"It's not like the whole world disagrees with you, EI. Many haven't read your postings yet."
Look. I really don't give a rip what people think. It seems obvious to me that there must be something up, because of the reaction.
And jr, For crying out loud! I mistook TCP for TFP, back in September. I meant TFP. You have been very proud of the TFP relationship. No problem. That's why I prefaced my first comments with that fact and asked for forgiveness.
"So, forgive me for asking about some concerns."
I meant that! Well, up until now. frankly, I don't care what you do or whether you or anyone else thinks that I have basis for my concern. If TFP is getting free rent from your utility and you Toledoans don't have a problem with it, then fine, neither do I.
posted by Erie_Island at 08:05 P.M. EST on Tue Feb 21, 2006 #
The Blade has been family-owned for decades, right? Gannett, Tribune, and Knight Ridder are three of the top newspaper chains.
"Gannett Co., Inc. is a leading international news and information company that publishes 91 daily newspapers in the USA, including USA TODAY, the nation's largest-selling daily newspaper. The company also owns nearly 1,000 non-daily publications in the USA and USA WEEKEND, a weekly newspaper magazine. Gannett subsidiary Newsquest is the United Kingdom's second largest regional newspaper company. Newsquest publishes more than 300 titles, including 17 daily newspapers, and a network of prize-winning Web sites. Gannett also operates 21 television stations in the United States and is an Internet leader with sites sponsored by its TV stations and newspapers including USATODAY.com, one of the most popular news sites on the Web."
Knight Ridder owns over 30 newspapers. Knight Ridder may be up for sale. From a Feb 19 article about the possible sale of Knight Ridder:
"While 70 percent of people age 65 and older read a daily paper, only 39 percent of 18- to 34-year-olds do, according to the Newspaper Association of America."
A blurb about newspaper ownership:
"Hundreds of owners run the nation's 1,457 newspapers, but about two dozen companies dominate. The top 10 chains account for more than half of all circulation in the United States - 51 percent daily and 56 percent Sunday."
posted by jr at 08:27 P.M. EST on Tue Feb 21, 2006 #
"I meant TFP."
Then how come you didn't say that in a comment to your topic back in September? You know, a correction.
"You have been very proud of the TFP relationship. No problem."
Circles. You must love circles because you constantly talk in them. There you go again with that relationship crap. Proud of what relationship? Where have I talked about being proud of some relationship? How many times do a I have to say a relationship doesn't exist? You're being rediculous, you know that? You're making up things as you go to suit yourself.
Try sticking to the topic, which is about the Blade possibly being sold.
posted by jr at 08:37 P.M. EST on Tue Feb 21, 2006 #
Look. I don't have any idea what you mean by "circles."
One more time. It is WRONG for TFP to have a business relationship with First Energy, other than paying their utility bill.
Frankly, I am not willing to look up all of the comments regarding the "relationship" issue.
jr. YOU are the one who continues to rant on ONE sentence that I mentioned preliminary to my comment - WHICH WAS ON TOPIC!
You HAVE a relationship with TFP. You HAVE a relationship with anyone who contributes to this forum. And right now, our RELATIONSHIP is becoming somewhat strained.
posted by Erie_Island at 09:56 P.M. EST on Tue Feb 21, 2006 #
You HAVE a relationship with TFP. You HAVE a relationship with anyone who contributes to this forum. And right now, our RELATIONSHIP is becoming somewhat strained.
Must resist making snarky comment... must resist making snarky comment....
posted by anonymouscoward at 11:22 P.M. EST on Tue Feb 21, 2006 #
If TFP is getting free rent from your utility and you Toledoans don't have a problem with it, then fine, neither do I.
posted by Erie_Island at 08:05 P.M. EST on Tue Feb 21, 2006
It must be my eyesight, but where does it say "free" or "reduced" rent in any of fuselighters postings.
I just want to make sure my brain isn't deleting any conspiracy connections as my eyes read it and make my postings biased.
egads.
posted by BrianInFlorida at 05:57 A.M. EST on Wed Feb 22, 2006
posted by BrianInFlorida at 05:58 A.M. EST on Wed Feb 22, 2006 #
It must be my eyesight, but where does it say "free" or "reduced" rent in any of fuselighters postings.
I just want to make sure my brain isn't deleting any conspiracy connections as my eyes read it and make my postings biased.
It's not just you... someone did put something in E_I's Kool-Aid.
posted by anonymouscoward at 06:42 A.M. EST on Wed Feb 22, 2006 #
You HAVE a relationship with TFP. You HAVE a relationship with anyone who contributes to this forum. And right now, our RELATIONSHIP is becoming somewhat strained.
And Damned boring. Give it a rest.
posted by billy at 07:45 A.M. EST on Wed Feb 22, 2006 #
Regarding my "IF -- IF TFP is getting free or reduced rent..."
Frankly, the reaction here to the suggestion that there might be a sweatheart deal between First Energy arouses my suspicions.
Everyone here, except AC (and I'm not sure about him) seems to have a connection to TFP.
And just because I thought jimavolt might be First Energy doesn't EVEN diminish this issue. If jimavolt is a bar owner, then he might even be a principal investor in TFP. Why? Even out here, I could see the HATE directed at The Blade over the smoking ban by bar owner. If I were a bar owner, then I woulod probably feel the same way. HOWEVER, I would be tempted to strike back at Toledo Blade any way in which I could. So, frankly whether jimavolt is First Energy or a bar owner doesn't surprise me at all.
AC, would fuselighter admit that his firm needed a little help to get started? Would he admit it, here in this forum? I think not.
Should fuselighter disclose in the next TFP edition that there is a "relationship" between the utility and TFP, well YES!
I have been willing to let this thread die, but as long as there are those who are willing to continue harassing me over this topic, then I will respond.
If I was really a bad person, then I would have started a new post about his topic.
Frankly, I believe that this is getting out of control.
To give jr the respect that he deserves... I, hereby, request that this part of the Blade getting sold topic die. HOWEVER, I reserve the right to respond whenever I can to demeaning assaults on my character and arguments about TFP and First Energy. That includes starting this topic up on The Blade's website.
posted by Erie_Island at 07:52 A.M. EST on Wed Feb 22, 2006 #
Uh, okay Erie Island.
So, despite the fact that your conspiracy theory has major holes in it, what you are saying is that you are going to cling to it?
Also, it is pretty slick to go and make these false accusations again, and then try to take the high moral ground by declaring the topic "dead."
Sorry - if you are going to persist in publicizing these baseless rumors, people will continue to shred your arguments.
You have had the editor-in-chief of the paper plus a writer (me) reassure you and go on record that there is no link between TFP and First Energy. If you have some proof, you should bring it forward.
Otherwise you just look goofy.
By the way, Erie Island - have you ever set foot in the First Energy building? They only take up a couple of floors, and they rent out the rest. There are probably over 100 other tenants in the building. Are you going to connect dots between every tenant, or just the ones that fit your conspiracy theory?
posted by historymike at 08:35 A.M. EST on Wed Feb 22, 2006 #
You're right Mike - it's not fair to throw a handful of mashed potatoes and then stand back and declare a truce in the food fight, offering peace to those who were hit.
But I'm not going to strike back. Instead, I have made a move that will help everyone involved. This morning I went to my Ameritrade account and put in an order for 25 shares of First Energy (FE) at $49.60 per share. I'll soon be a principal investor in this 16 B....B....B...BILLION DOLLAR company. In this small way, one of EI's baseless accusations will actually be validated and we can all walk away from this messy thread with our heads held high.
posted by jimavolt at 10:17 A.M. EST on Wed Feb 22, 2006 #
Erie:
I admit our firm needed a little help to get started.
I admit our firm will need a little help to continue.
But not help from First Energy as you are accusing.
What start-up company doesn't need help getting started?
If you'd like to write a letter to the editor commenting on the fact that we rent space form Edison but we do not mention that in the paper, I'll run it in print as long as your name is on it.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to meet Big Foot and the Loch Ness Monster on the grassy knoll at Area 51. Jimmy Hoffa's been acting up again and we need to feed the leprachauns before they start killing unicorns again.
posted by Fuselighter at 10:23 A.M. EST on Wed Feb 22, 2006 #
Well.
Your people amaze me!
You're paying 30% more than your neighbors a few miles away for electricity, and yet you find nothing wrong with a news outlet renting from the utility that's ripping you off.
There's a name for people like you, but I won't use it here.
posted by Erie_Island at 10:28 A.M. EST on Wed Feb 22, 2006 #
Erie?
Let me clue your ignorant mind in on something, I live in Florida.
Clue you in on something else? You've lost focus.
Trying to align me with a newspaper is insane. I have better things to do, like hold the local politicans accountable.
Trying to label me is inappropriate. I was once under the impression you were cohearant. Since this thread and your inclusion in it, you've removed all doubt.
I'm starting to think you're detoxing from that jail food, personally. I recommend a stint in a toxicology rehabilitation center, and six weeks of time to kill, cuz sister, you're delusional.
posted by BrianInFlorida at 05:39 P.M. EST on Wed Feb 22, 2006 #
BrianInFlorida:
You are a joke. You were run out of Toledo by the cops. You obviously have done time, since you seem to know so much about jail food. Frankly, you are simply a loser. That is quite obvious from all of your previous comments.
posted by Erie_Island at 07:42 P.M. EST on Wed Feb 22, 2006 #
Maybe the Blade can hire this guy some day. Found this story at Signal vs Noise:
"World-famous newspaper designer Mario Garcia embraces the challenge of blending the old with the new as he helps reinvent the Wall Street Journal."
"After 30 years in the business and more than 500 projects on his resume, Garcia is something of an industry legend. Among newspapers' leading designers, you would be hard-pressed to find someone who hasn't worked with or for him. (He also serves on the National Advisory Board of the Poynter Institute for Media Studies, which owns the St. Petersburg Times, and will co-lead a World Tabloid Conference at the school for journalists in March)."
"Garcia and these [WSJ] editors aren't just squeezing the page size of the Journal's national edition by 20 percent - a move announced late last year that is expected to save $18-million annually. They are reimagining the entire newspaper for a new, leaner era, amid reports of rising newsprint costs and dropping circulation."
"The last idea echoes notions from Garcia for improving newspapers that might horrify more traditional journalists: more celebrity news, more fashion and trend pieces, shorter and snappier stories."
Fashion and celebrity news in the WSJ?
More from the story:
"Still, the Journal likely won't adopt the one idea Garcia thinks all newspapers will eventually embrace: a conversion to tabloid size."
I prefer the tabloid format used by the Toledo City Paper and the Toledo Free Press over the broadsheet format used by the Toledo Blade.
In the U.S., when someone hears the word "tabloid" they think of the papers at the grocery checkouts that contain stories about humans giving birth to three-headed aliens. Or Americans here about wild stories in the London tabloids.
A media article I read last year said this perception of the word "tabloid" is what's causing newspapers in the U.S. to not change from the cumbersome broadsheet format to the easier-to-use tabloid format. Americans have this idea that "tabloid" means sleazy or unprofessional journalism. Tabloid is a formatting or publishing style.
Have you ever heard: "In the New York broadsheets ..."? How often do you hear the word "broadsheet" when talking about a newspaper versus the incorrectly-used word "tabloid?"
More about this Garcia guy:
"Compact. That's the term Garcia uses to describe tabloid-sized papers. It's a smooth bit of wordplay that sidesteps American readers' association of tabloids with celebrity scandals and sensational headlines."
"Garcia reasons that an audience raised on cable TV and the Internet needs a more portable, navigable newspaper."
"Garcia [is] a 59-year-old father of four who enjoys youth-oriented tabloids such as the Times' tbt."
Garcia said:
"In five years, you will hit a generation of readers who don't remember life without the Internet. People who are coming from . . . the screen of the Internet are used to reading within the confines of a smaller place and transfer more quickly to the tabloid."
More:
"Despite his confidence, Garcia admits a new design can't save a newspaper - or the newspaper industry - by itself. "A redesign is like plastic surgery . . . it can change your nose, but not your personality," Garcia said. "My design will bring the story, the photos, the whole package to someone who gives it 10 seconds of attention and decides, I read or I don't read." "
Opposition to the tabloid format:
"Alan Jacobson, president of Brass Tacks Design in Norfolk, Va., is a prominent critic of the drive toward tabloids. U.S. newspapers make most of their revenue from advertising, where clients are charged by the size of each ad. So a move to tabloid would shrink the size of full-page ads, cutting revenue by 22 percent, Jacobson said."
"Instead, Jacobson said newspapers must revitalize several areas at once, including customer service, production, circulation and marketing. It's an area where he and Garcia agree: New designs are not enough."
"But as papers ranging from the Journal to the Orlando Sentinel and the St. Petersburg Times develop new designs, they walk a tightrope between delivering what longtime readers expect and offering a fresh look to attract a new audience."
If the Blade switched to a tabloid format, they would be swamped by angry readers. Change is hard for some.
Maybe the Blade should produce another paper that's targeted toward a younger audience. Tabloid format with shorter and snappier stories with more humor. It should also have more stories about fashion, music, movies, and video games. Also local news stories with some short national wire stories thrown in too. Get this group that doesn't read newspapers used to the paper. As they get older and get more interested in the news, the tabloid format is normal for them.
Garcia said:
"Younger readers want to read about fashion. They want to know which suit to buy. And if the Wall Street Journal doesn't give them that, somebody else will."
Fashion stories may attract a younger person to the paper, but maybe they stay with it because of the news stories that are in it too. Whatever works, but the point is, the future survival of a newspaper is in getting the under-40 crowd to read it.
posted by jr at 11:27 P.M. EST on Wed Feb 22, 2006 #
Erie?
I left Toledo because I was tired of the police harassment because I impregnated Marti Felkers daughter when he was the police chief.
As far as my time spent in the clink in Ohio, one hour in a holding cell in the Safety Building and no hor de voures. Nice try tho.
It's not just the fact that you're throwing stuff against the wall hoping for something to stick, it's the fact that you're facts lack teeth. You've accused a bar owner to being associated with an electric company so he goes and purchases stock to shut you up, you've associated a newspaper with the electric company because they rent space in the same building. You have no facts to back anything you said up.
I think you're just upset that the Toledo Free Press is more successful than any endeavour you've attempted.
posted by BrianInFlorida at 05:04 A.M. EST on Thu Feb 23, 2006 #
....the future survival of a newspaper is in getting the under-40 crowd to read it....
I think the best writer they have Christopher Borrelli. Love his movie reviews, awhile ago he wrote an atricle about kit built robots, it was great. That's what I want to read, instead we get the society page. The Blade has two guys writting tech stuff-one columnist talks about getting the most out of word processor, and the other tells me things I learned about two months ago.
Less pictures of so and so at the yacht club, no more word processor hints, more Christopher Borelli articles about robots. That would really help my opinion about the Blade.
posted by Bruno at 06:27 A.M. EST on Thu Feb 23, 2006 #
in re Bruno's comments:
In the manufacturing business Im in, our sales force is in constant contact with our customers, always asking them what their needs are - what they're looking for in the building supplies they buy from us and other people.
To any Blade subscribers on this forum - have any of you ever been contacted by the Blade asking how's your service? What could the paper do to improve?
I subscribed for years before getting fed up with its quality, and in probably 12 years of taking the paper, never once was I asked for any feedback. Could be they already had customer focus groups in place and I just wasnt selected.
Has anyone else been asked what they can do to improve their product?
posted by billy at 09:00 A.M. EST on Thu Feb 23, 2006 #
Fuselighter said: Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to meet Big Foot and the Loch Ness Monster on the grassy knoll at Area 51. Jimmy Hoffa's been acting up again and we need to feed the leprachauns before they start killing unicorns again.
Don't forget that you're doing lunch with the other heads of the Vast Liberal Media Conspiracy tomorrow. It's a buffet including puppies, kittens, and babies to eat.
Crackhead, I mean E_I said: You're paying 30% more than your neighbors a few miles away for electricity, and yet you find nothing wrong with a news outlet renting from the utility that's ripping you off.
Wait. First you were going on about the TFP getting a cut-rate and kickbacks from WorstEnergy... now you're complaining that they DON'T?
Fox News has some editor and writer positions on their website. I suggest you submit your résumé to
Fox News Channel
Dept. of Human Resources
1211 Avenue of the Americas
2nd floor
New York, NY 10036
Fax: 212-301-8588
Email: Resumes@foxnews.com
You'd fit right in.
posted by anonymouscoward at 09:04 A.M. EST on Thu Feb 23, 2006 #
AC: "sticks and stones..."
I trust that I'll get an apology, once the truth comes out?
Anyway. I am a real fan of Fox News. Too bad I'm not in a business that even remotely related.
Laugh it up while you can.
Love,
Erie
posted by Erie_Island at 12:12 P.M. EST on Thu Feb 23, 2006 #
Frankly, E_I, since you've accused the TFP and jimavolt and jr/ToledoTalk of all having some sort of abnormal fidiciary relationship amongst themselves and FirstEnergy, and you've provided absolutely zero evidence to back your claim up, they'd be well within their rights to sue the pants off of you for libel/slander/defamation. In fact, the only way you could actually WIN such a lawsuit is if you actually DID have evidence and presented it in your defense.
Of course, none of the above parties stand to gain anything from suing you at this time, because you haven't done enough bleating of bullshit to cause enough harm to their reputations, and because if they did, you and any like-minded conspiracy theorists would claim the fact that they are suing you as proof they really are all in bed together and have something to hide.
There will come a point, though, if you continue to keep spouting unfounded bullshit, that the damage you cause and the benefit of suing you to put a stop to it outweighs the negatives of suing you.
My advice to you is that you can either show your cards (empirical evidence of monetary kickbacks, for example) or fold by withdrawing your accusations.
If you wish to claim that time will prove you right, then that is your right. I claim that time's going to prove me right on the ineptness and corruption of the Bush Administration. I'm sure not everyone will think I'm right, and it's a given nothing will convince everyone, but once the majority agrees with the majority of my arguments, I'm the winner (just like in an election, no less). However, you're the one making claims that there's some vast conspiracy headed by FirstEnergy or something involving the TFP, ToledoTalk, and jimavolt/The Distillery. Other reporters and investigators have got the documentation on what Bush has been up to and I can cite all that as evidence to make my case. The only things you can cite are the fact that a number of people who work or write for the TFP frequent this board, that the TFP is currently housed in the Edison building, and well, as far as I know, jimavolt buys the electricity for The Distillery from FirstEnergy. Guess which one of us can print out reams of documents to back our assertions up and which of us has a pile of intangible circumstantial evidence?
I have a question for you, E_I. Given that I've told jr on a few occasions to, to put it politely, attempt to reproduce elsewhere and then cease existing, and otherwise been bold and brash enough to voice what I think of him and how he runs his website, would it be more evidence of collusion and conspiracy if I went to work for the TFP, or would it prove that there is no connection between the jr/ToledoTalk and the TFP?
Come on, smart guy, I want an answer.
posted by anonymouscoward at 12:58 P.M. EST on Thu Feb 23, 2006 #
AC: You're hired.
posted by Fuselighter at 02:09 P.M. EST on Thu Feb 23, 2006 #
"smart guy" to dim bulb...
"smart guy" to dim bulb...
come in dim bulb
Oh, ther you are AC...
Are you trying to turn this issue into another excuse for Bush bashing?
And you think I'm single-minded!
Listen, dim bulb, what would be REALLY hilarious would be a lawsuit coming from either First Energy and TFP directed at me. Let me make sure that you understand this. I will type very slowly. None and I MEAN NONE of these people would like this to go to court. Why, because they would have to produce the documents regarding rent. If you think that this forum is damaging to TFP, a court case would eat them alive.
Now, again, dim bulb, to a person who doess NOT live in the immediate area, doesn't a nickname like jimavolt sound a little electric to you?
Oh, that's right, I'm the smart guy. At least, according to AC.
Well, it's been fun, but I'm starting to get a little bored with the bipolar members of the community attacking me with nonsensical claims of things that I never said.
Again, if you Toledoans don't care about his, then I guess Erie County can ignore it as well.
posted by Erie_Island at 03:05 P.M. EST on Thu Feb 23, 2006 #
Dude, shouldn't you be wearing a tinfoil hat (shiny side out) to protect your brain from the evil mind control radiation coming off of First Energy's power lines? I mean, we've all heard that living under the high voltage lines causes cancer and things like that.
Maybe Erie_Island is really the ErieVoices guy and has been drinking water from the same source that Elsebeth Baumgartner uses... certain aspects of poisoning, particularly heavy metal poisoning, could cause this sort of thing... as well as syphillis... that sound you're hearing, E_I, is LifeFlight coming to take you to the ER for help... it is NOT a black Army-CIA helicopter coming to take you to the alien mothership... stay where you are, all will be better shortly....
posted by anonymouscoward at 03:55 P.M. EST on Thu Feb 23, 2006 #
So that's what's wrong?
I have the hat inside out!
Now he tells me!
posted by Erie_Island at 04:05 P.M. EST on Thu Feb 23, 2006 #
As I began to read the 95 'theses' posted in this topic, I must have taken a wrong turn somewhere because I lost the discussion about the Toledo Blade.
Are there some road signs a fellow could follow?
posted by toledo_lurker at 04:33 P.M. EST on Thu Feb 23, 2006 #
While I think about it, gee, how many other places have super secret deals with area utilities and so on?
Owens gets their phone service from Block *GASP* that's why there's never any negative coverage about Owens in the Blade!
I bet all the Toledo TV stations also get special deals from WorstEnergy cause they're such big consumers of electricity... that's why I never heard anything about WorstEnergy almost killing us all by nearly blowing up Davis-Besse!
So I guess the stories I read in the Blade about natural gas prices are a direct result of the Blade not getting a special deal on gas rates... right?
And that means the whole Tom Noe/Coingate thing got started when one of the Blocks found some rare quarters in one of their newspaper machines, went to Noe, and couldn't get as much as they thought it was really worth out of him?
... I GOT IT! All these "studies" done by "consultants" on things like Southwyck, Westgate, an arena, an ampitheatre, downtown, the "brain drain", "high-tech growth" and so on, they're a conspiracy between the Blade, the politicians, and the consultants... the politicians pay off the consultants so they, the politicians, look like they're doing something, and the consultants pay the Blade off in turn for publishing all their findings and their lavish plans as a form of advertising... and that way the Blade doesn't get dirty money directly from the politicians.
The big color-changeable lighting panels going up on the center pylon of the new bridge... yeah, the minute it goes up, it's going to say "FirstEnergy: Our Energy Is Working For You" on it... then it'll say "CARTY GETS RESULTS"... and right after that, tomorrow's Blade headlines today!
By the way, E_I, I hear Fuseligher and historymike and the rest of the TFP staff drive Hondas because they are all secretly anti-union and hate Jeep, GM, and Ford. And they all have special ID cards that identify them as Liberal Media members in good standing. And on the back of those cards are the special Liberal Media hotline numbers that get ahold of the red Bat-phones at CNN, MSNBC, NBC, CBS, and ABC... within ten minutes of calling them with a hot tip that bashes any conservative, there will be "BREAKING NEWS ALERTS" up and news helicopters in the sky racing towards the story....
I also forgot that Carty Himself has ordered all members of the TFP to be given cut rates on their water/sewer bills so they don't write anything bad about him... and they get super-secret discounts while shopping at Erie Street Market... and they're exempted from Toledo taxes as well.
posted by anonymouscoward at 04:43 P.M. EST on Thu Feb 23, 2006 #
That's it AC, now you have gone too far. You promised you wouldn't talk. OMG what's next? The secret unicorn location?
:-)
posted by psyche777 at 04:47 P.M. EST on Thu Feb 23, 2006 #
Like I said,"I'm getting bored..."
toledo_lurker:
There is a plot to post so much information that it will obscure the REAL First Energy -- TFP plot.
Like the 3 letter agencies have said, since 9/11, "It's like trying to drink from a fire hose."
Bottom line toledo_lurker, Do you think that a news media outlet should have a renting type relationship with a utility? Especially considering all the vacant properties in Toledo? If that media outlet DOES rent from the utility, shouldn't they disclose that fact when they report on the same utility?
Don't let all the snoke these people are blowing obscure the truth, toledo_lurker.
posted by Erie_Island at 05:16 P.M. EST on Thu Feb 23, 2006 #
Hey Erie For the last and final time....it's Jim Avolt, it's not a nick name it's his actual name, it's a fact.I looked it up so I know. See how I backed up my comment with a fact!!! Maybe you should try it.
posted by bogeylola at 07:07 P.M. EST on Thu Feb 23, 2006 #
Thanks, AC.
EI reminds me of edie. Remember edie's conspiracy theories about me and Toledo Talk? AC came to my rescue in that incident too. 'Ol edie said goodbye last August.
toledo_lurker, a fresher thread about the possible sale of the Blade exists here. It only has a few comments. I should have posted my recent Blade/newspaper industry comments in that thread instead of here.
I think we've gotten all the mileage we can possibly get out this puppy. What do you say, I shut her down for comments?
posted by jr at 12:24 A.M. EST on Fri Feb 24, 2006 #
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