A great number of Jeep workers do not fulfill their responsibilities as voters within our system in the U.A.W. I cannot speak for the apathy outside Jeep, but I would assume it may be roughly the same. When you have a Committee election, and only one- third of eligible voters cast a ballot, then you have a problem. A simple rundown of the vote totals in the last three major elections will clearly show this to be true.
This absolute laziness permeates our entire society.This is a form of intellectual laziness.The failure to want to study any issues and come to an intelligent decision.The failure to use your Democratic power for effective change in government.The failure to recognize degradation in your leadership.The intellectual inability to differentiate between competing ideas and issues, due to obfuscation and smoke screens, set up by those skilled in the politics of mass psychology.
To put it simply. Most people do not even realize there is an ongoing assault upon our Constitution, going on daily. We are losing our rights, as we fail to practice them, or even understand them.This is no less than the complete abdication of freedom itself. People of like mind, who are willing to fight against Government sponsored takeaways, Union corruption, Corporate greed, and control of our legislative processes, need to find each other, and work together now. Before it's too late to work together. Before any type of meetings themselves are outlawed.
Let's keep in mind that corruption exists within a crucible of misinformation and apathy. The cheapening of our values happens when good men and women turn away from evil in any form, and refuse to deal with reality.The supposed simpleton who gains power, is the most dangerous one of all. For he is backed by psychological experts, who know what must be done, to control unrest, and consolidate power.
I think your posting is one of the best I have seen in a long time. I do ask questions. I demand answers. I know for a fact twenty people who read this on a regular basis, that haven't dared to write in any comments. They may fear sounding dumb, or saying the wrong thing. What you say here is the truth. People need to start doing a whole lot more than bitching and whining. They need to get up off the couch, and reclaim democracy.
posted by Bbcmjeep43 at 09:10 A.M. EST on Sun Nov 06, 2005 #
Cathersis and Bbcmjep43, I agree questions DO NOT get answered...it is actually SAD what our UNION has become...
I was in "Smart Manufacturing" classes a couple weeks ago, the last day of these class, "Our Leadership" and all Managers talked with the class, answering questions...note, answers given by the Managers were straight, direct, on the otherhand...
Our Chairman said he is going to re-negotiate to keep our nurses at Jeep...on another occasion, Our Chairman said he was going to re-negotiate re-call rights for the TPT's...
DOES THIS MEAN OPENING THE CONTRACT??? WHAT IS HE TALKING OF...WE MOST CERTAINLY DO NOT WANT THAT CONTRACT OPENED...MOST OF US HAVE ACCEPTED WHAT OUR FUTURE MAY VERY WELL BE WITH NEXT CONTRACT...WE CANNOT ALLOW HIM TO OPEN THIS CONTRACT...Why the concern with the NURSES??? Jobs are being eliminated throughout the PLANT with NO UNION REPRESENTATION INVOLVED...
My Committeeman does give me STRAIGHT ANSWERS, it may NOT be what I want to hear, but they're straight answers...but he will be leaving in January...
Bbcmjeep43, Get off the couch and reclaim democracy??? IS TOO LATE??? I believe the UNION is nearly broke in half...
posted by MARIELORA at 10:36 A.M. EST on Sun Nov 06, 2005 #
Pal, I hate to tell ya, but this family has been in 3 Local 12 union shops, all of which have closed down, and they all ran the same way as Jeep. Actually, a lot of them voted for the high senority fella, reguardless of qualifications simply because they didn't want a lower seniority person holding their job when it came to layoffs. But you can thank your lucky stars you don't work for Libbey in downtown Toledo. Talk about a union..err I think it is a union..at least that is what they call it. They shrug their shoulders when you come to them with a legitimate problem and love to turn and walk the other way. What I would give to be back in a Local 12 again. The benefits were a lot better and although many broke promises, at least you saw some accomplishments. I have benefits, but compared to my other 3 shops, these suck big time. Can I have your job?
posted by SOFTSUMMERBREEZE at 11:43 A.M. EST on Sun Nov 06, 2005 #
heard that skilled trades will be offered $125,000 buy outs in the spring what will that do to the job bank funds and the inverse layoffs?
posted by so_you_think at 05:19 P.M. EST on Sun Nov 06, 2005 #
Bbcmjeep43- Thanks for the compliment. The fact that you know 20 people who read this says to me you have the ear of at least 20 instruments of change. I hope you agree with me enough to put this opportunity to good use. I agree with you that people of like minds need to find each other NOW and work for positive change. Today may be the day that it all starts. I would love to hear from those who are leary of commenting. C'mon, stand up, stand together and be heard. Let us not turn away from evil but turn and kick it in the balls! This we do for ourselves and our families and those who follow us at Jeep.
posted by Catharsis at 07:51 P.M. EST on Sun Nov 06, 2005 #
Caathersis, I recall reading comments of yours a few months ago, mysteriously you disappeared! Just like our stewards and committeemen!
Me thinks you are doing some campaigning, you would "love" to hear from all of us? Then why??? did you disappear a few moths back?
The union has lost what little power they had, Supplier Park $12.00 per hour jobs, that were once our Jeep jobs paying $25.00 per hour, jobs continue to be eliminated and you are complaining on Jeeps Everywhere Topic about profit sharing???
Why don't you let us all know what it is you are up to, Cathersis, cleansing of some kind, where is it going to get you? What can YOU do for us?
Talk to us!
posted by lets_talk_serious at 08:34 P.M. EST on Sun Nov 06, 2005 #
$6.50 per car per day!?!?!?!?! I'm going out tomorrow and buy up all available land within easy travel distance of the Jeep plant. I will offer it to them for $5.50 per day percar!
posted by DoknowDocare at 09:33 P.M. EST on Sun Nov 06, 2005 #
lets_talk_serious states: Caathersis, I recall reading comments of yours a few months ago, mysteriously you disappeared!
That is true, you had actually commented to me stating you would propose some of your ideas for change...possibly you've been thinking about this and now are "getting back to us"...it's true Cathersis, that is what our union representation says to us...
Also, I would like your opinion to the question I had asked in an earlier comment of all this re-negotiating "Our Leadership" has commented on...would this entail OPENING THE CONTRACT?
DoKnowDoCare...I can do better, I'll charge $5.00 per day for storage of the Jeeps!!!
posted by MARIELORA at 10:03 P.M. EST on Sun Nov 06, 2005 #
this is how the problem all started i realize you are just kidding about cutting the rate on storing jeeps but can you see how a company can always go and find people willing to do the work for less money just like you say i am not greedy like that guy getting $6.50 i will do it for $5.00 a lot of people look at jeep workers and say i am not greedy i will do it for $12.00 people in the south started it then mexico then off shore and now the chinese so my take is this doknowdocare and marielora are no differant they will help drive the price of storing cars down to 50 cents
posted by so_you_think at 09:21 A.M. EST on Mon Nov 07, 2005 #
so_you_think, Hi, enjoying an Inveress week...as you had mentioned in earlier comment "how much longer will Inveress last" so enjoying a week now!
I get your point and you are correct there always is someone that will offer a service at lower cost...
Know I have a coupon for the "Big Blue Deck" parking at Detroit Airport, which has a roof...for $5.00 per day...this includes transportation to the airline from my vehicle and from the airport to my vehicle.
$6.50 per day to store vehicles in an uncovered lot sounds like highway robbery...with security or not...with lites or not...sounds high...
posted by MARIELORA at 10:29 A.M. EST on Mon Nov 07, 2005 #
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9954494/ tells of the travels of President Bush to Panama...why is he there? To talk of FREE TRADE with that country and the U.S.A.
posted by MARIELORA at 10:58 A.M. EST on Mon Nov 07, 2005 #
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9954494/ tells of the travels of President Bush to Panama...why is he there? To talk of FREE TRADE with the U.S.A.
posted by MARIELORA at 10:59 A.M. EST on Mon Nov 07, 2005 #
I too am in a union-and what I find is the average person is not involved at the activist level-they pay dues and that is it-we all must be active and hold our leaders accountable no matter what!..but we need to let the average member know that they can and should speak up...I can not believe the number of members that do not vote in key issues and that never come to meetings-then bitch about leadership!
posted by divamom26 at 12:48 P.M. EST on Mon Nov 07, 2005 #
Cathersis and BBjeep, who is this evil we need to stand up to?
posted by ajeepthing at 05:49 P.M. EST on Mon Nov 07, 2005 #
TOPIC: Rank and File UAW Members Important Meeting
Local1231 union hall was full of concerned union members from across the country as far away as New York in the east and Iowa from the west. For a first meeting it was a good start lots of ideas, lots of information. One recurring theme, what happens at Delphi happens to all UAW plants given enough time. Another concern; how do we wake up the membership to this real and growing threat. Many retirees were collecting information for a class action lawsuit to safe guard their pensions and benefits. This was serious business. What these workers are facing is truely sad, I feel for them..... I ownly hope when our time comes, that we are better prepared.
The link below was press of the up coming event In the Grand Rapid Press.
http://www.mlive.com/news/grpress/index.ssf?/base/news-25/1131277738326010.xml&coll=6
posted by UnionWanted at 07:26 P.M. EST on Mon Nov 07, 2005 #
The largest Rank-and-File meeting held in years took place on November 6th in Comstock Park, Michigan. Members discussed issues and preparations regarding possible future actions at Delphi including strikes, lockouts, Work to Rules and possible loss of income.
UAW Members from Ford, GM, D/C, Writer's Unions, Mitsubishi and others were also in attendance to show support and solidarity for their Delphi Brothers and Sisters.
There was time allotted to discuss the GM Health Care Concession package being voted on this week at most GM Locals. Copies of the tentative agreement were available and will be available at the meeting in Kokomo.
If you were unable to attend this meeting, a second meeting has been scheduled in Kokomo, Indiana on November 13th at 2:00pm. For Directions go to:
www.tapsnews.com/november13.html
Should you attend? It's your future. You owe it to your family to participate and stay informed. It's their future too.
Jan Austin
Click here: List: Plants, workers on the line - 10/9/05
posted by UnionWanted at 07:39 P.M. EST on Mon Nov 07, 2005 #
let's talk serious - I disappeared before because I was new to this site and didn't quite know how things worked. Unlike others, I don't have daily computer access (let alone time to write) and by the time I returned it seemed that the emphasis had moved on to another subject. I think now I'll just throw it out there and let what happens happen.
Campaigning?! Far from it. If I am being forced to define myself I would say I am more of a Crusader than anything else. I don't see any runs for office in MY future but if my words spur a well-qualified, well-intentioned individual to action then my job would be partially complete. I am crusading to ensure that I have the same safe retirement that our union forefathers fought for and aquired. This has been promised to me from the day I hired in and now that it's getting close enough to touch things look as though they may change on us, (look at United Airlines for an example). I, we, have made life-altering financial decisions based on the promise of that pension (including benefits) and now the Rebublicans (read: NOT pro-labor) look as though they are going to let it all be taken away. It is not too far-fetched to look into the future and see Daimler, in response to a quarterly loss, hold a press conference to announce,"Our pension obligations have become burdensome to the point of hurting profitability therefore we are severing our ties with our retirees. Thanks for the ride and good luck." Of course, it may not be exactly like this, they would find a more politically correct way to say, "screw you", but I think it's starting to happen now. The groundwork is being laid at places like Delphi and United Airlines. At times like this I would love to see every, and I do mean EVERY, labor union in this country come together and stage a slow-down, sick-out, or an all-out strike, even for one day. This is the response we should have taken when Reagan fired the air traffic controllers over 20 years ago. That was the beginning of our downfall in my opinion. Yes, I know we can LEGALLY strike only over certain issues but how else do we show that we mean business? The unions were built by butting heads with the laws. The laws are all in the favor of the corporations and that means they don't fear going to the bargaining table because they will come out smelling like a rose. We need to flex our collective muscle, if we can remember how, that is. The withholding of labor is our chief means of defense and has been since the unions began.
marie lora - This would be the first change I would propose in the quest to better our lives at work and secure a better future for us and ours. We must look at the people we elect and ask ourselves if this is the best we've got to send against a bunch of Ivy League trained corporate lawyers. In most cases I think you may find the answer to be NO. Ask yourself if your present elected representative was elected because he/she was well-liked, tough, fearless, a loud-mouth, etc... ? Wouldn't you feel better if you could answer that question by saying "she has a master's degree in this or that", or "he built a successful business from the ground up", or "he graduated law school and passed the bar". Anybody can beat their fist on the table and make a demand but to take on someone intellectually requires a lot more "smarts." If we can make changes for the better here than we will be much better off.
In response to the question of "what evil? I would have to reply that evil is all around us and takes more than one form.
Corporations that want to take bread off your table and damage your ability to provide for your family, all in the name of the bottom line, is most definitely at the top of the list. They want us to kick-in for our health insurance instead of straightening out the problem at the source- the doctors, hospitals, and insurance companies that have raped us for years with their jacked-up prices.
I think it is evil for someone to run for office based not on how well qualified they may be but on how well they get inside your head and manipulate you. The intentions of these people are self-serving from the onset. How can we possibly expect them to change for the better down the road? We've put these people in office for many years and look where we're at. Are you tired of this crap yet? Of course, we should accept much of, if not most of, the blame here. We keep putting them in office in the first place. Are there other forms of evil in our worklives? You tell me.
I was asked a while back what I would do to change things for the better. Changing ourselves is the logical place to start.
Now, let the debating begin!
posted by Catharsis at 06:14 A.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
Cathersis, Hi and welcome back...
It's difficult to attend Friday Nite Union Meetings for many of us...there is only a 15 minute question and answer session, with the Chairman chosing who will speak...
That's where "Toledo Talk" helps...the union has monitored this site...they are reading our feelings and thoughts...
My mother is retired from Jeep and is concerned of her penison...she told me...she's grateful her home is paid off and she has savings...then she said...how could YOU KIDS let this UNION come to this...
How right she is...I will have my 30 years in a year and half...I have accepted the cold fact that Pension and Healthcare will be cut...as will future COLA for active employees, Supplier Park is OUR writing on the Wall...$12-13.00 per hour wages.
You commented we need intelligent representatives to negotiate our contract...
Wasn't Lloyed Mahaffey involved with our negotiations? Nick Vuich? Or were you speaking of future negotiations? I strongly believe whether we have genius's or not with next contract KJ Body and Paint will be owned by Suppliers, Pension and Healthcare will be cut as will active employees wages FROZE. That's OUR future...my opinion...
My thinking being...we're allright until our current contract is up...UNLESS it's re-opened...that's why I have asked more than once on Our Leadership's comments regarding renegotiating re-call rights for TPT's and renegotiating employment for the Plant Nurses...would that entail re-opening our contract?
I feel bad for Delphi, I feel bad the Big Three has to offer incentives for 2005 vehicles still today and it's nearly 2006!
I believe out of respect for our grandparent's for all they did to enable us our well paid jobs with great healthcare, we need to have a sit out, slow down, something...just out of RESPECT for them...my gosh, I feel awful for their PENSION...WE sat back, DID NOTHING...they STRIKED AND STRIKED, some loss their lives, fighting for US...we need to show them some kind of RESPECT...
My mother was hired when our Jeep Plant was Kaiser Jeep in the 60's, she was out on Strike more than once, always in the freezing cold...We owe her and all the others as her SOMETHING...it's highly likely our retiree's will be cut with next contract...let's show them we CARE...let's show them we APPRECIATE everything they did...we have to SHOW THEM SOMETHING!
posted by MARIELORA at 01:15 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
Link to radio show on Delphi and how companies are using bankruptcy, with
American Axle retiree Dianne Feeley and Labor Notes Editor Chris Kutalik.
http://www.againstthegrain.org/audio11.07.05.mp3
It should be top center. Click on 'listen' to hear the program (it's a big
download, be warned)
http://www.againstthegrain.org/
http://www.againstthegrain.org/audio11.07.05.mp3
posted by EYESWIDESHUT at 08:36 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
P.S. Cathersis and UnionWanted, my feelings, two-tier wages killed everything solidarity means...that's when I lost my respect for the union and I am ashamed, very much ashamed that I voted YES to allow retiree's to have first dibs at double hourly pay and added pension income with Supplier Park, yet agreed for new hire's to earn $12.00-13.00 per hour...Shame on all of us...and...Shame on our representatives for NOT fully explaining this to us when it was up for vote.
Now...we're all worried and upset as it may very well be US, YOU and I trying to support our families on $12-13.00 per hour wages, but we were fine and dandy with our children earning it! This I believe, my parent's would have NEVER accepted such a deal, they believed equal pay for equal work, my parent's would have NEVER accepted OVERTIME with LAYED OFF WORKERS...but, WE accepted it all as long as we BENEFITED...now we're SCARED...
Well, I will end my say on all this JEEP TALK with...We need to do something that is totally unselfish...we NEED to guarantee our retiree's pension...even if it comes out of OUR POCKETS...WE OWE OUR RETIREE'S THE SECURITY OF THEIR PENSION...the Company isn't going to do...no matter how many intelligent union rep's., are in talks with next contract...and...if it were up to me...two-tier wages would NOT exist at Jeep Corp., if needed we would take a CUT to equal all wages, there's NO SOLIDARITY in two-tier wages.
posted by MARIELORA at 10:36 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
Cathersis, thanks for taking the time to answer my questions of you.
You made comment you would like to debate, allright.
I don't see much life left in the unions, the companies are breaking them in two. I don't believe there are contract negotiations, I believe the company gives the union a few package deals to look over and they the union choses which one they'll accept.
If you would like to debate with me, convince why we would need a union, when non union employers pay $10-13 per hour. Toyota, Honda are non union, they earn $20 plus per hour, Supplier Park once our jeep jobs, those people minus the retiree's will earn one half what we did, what kind of union would have given our jobs away? Most people that make comment on this site, look at Northwest Airline topic believe unions are not viable anylonger.
Convince me an intelligent union representative would make a difference, I don't see it, as posters have commented on this site, jeep unit union is paid by the company therefore they work for the company, we work for who pays us.
Show me I am wrong.
posted by lets_talk_serious at 11:56 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 08, 2005 #
We all at Jeep should consider what the Delphi workers are doing with the work -to-rule. When the "smart police" eliminate your job why do you or your fellow workers immediately volunteer to work overtime to make up any loss production? Why don't the membership stick together as a Union? Don't we realize are bodies can't keep up at that pace for long. Don't help the company increase your work load your ownly hurting yourself. It's obvious they don't give a damn about us, SO STOP HELPING THEM. Link of gaining support for Delphi workers. http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0511/08/C01-375725.htm
posted by UnionWanted at 05:35 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
another hot topic when it comes to our committee members and their pay: up until about a year ago committee members were getting 48hrs pay for 40hrs of work, if they worked any overtime that was added on top of the 48hr base pay, the company stopped this practice saying that it could be perceived as a bribe: it sure does look like one to me, ask any com. maember about it
posted by so_you_think at 09:42 A.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
so_you_think, BRIBES? Wouldn't their whole paycheck be considered a BRIBE??? The company paying their wages...It will NEVER make sense to me a company paid union...BRIBES...yes, NOW...that makes sense!
posted by MARIELORA at 01:57 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
P.S. CARTY WON!!! YES, CARTY! CARTY! CARTY!
posted by MARIELORA at 02:11 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
MARIELORA,
Do I detect a bit of excitement from your postings regarding the outcome of the Toledo Mayoral election?
posted by RolandHansen at 02:56 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
RolandHansen: YES!!! I love Carty's ENERGY...he's ALWAYS doing something/somewhere for Toledo...some say he's a HOT HEAD...I call it PASSION...I am THRILLED he WON!!!
CARTY! CARTY! CARTY!
On the otherhand, there's Jack Ford, He literally KILLED many business with his smoking ban...Resturants, Bars, Bingo Halls, Bowling Alleys, that's Toledo...and...THEY SMOKE...
Jack Ford also, my opinion, seemed to be a kept Mayor...meaning...The Blade and the "A" Team owned him...
Carty...well..he's definetly his own man and he LOVES TOLEDO...
CARTY! CARTY! CARTY!
posted by MARIELORA at 03:08 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
RolandHansen, P.S., let me add, my 28 year old daughter voted for Jack Ford!!!
She likes him, she told me he's a very nice person...
I asked her...What makes you feel he's "NICE", she replied...when she was employed at the Toledo Club downtown he came in regularly and was always polite and kind to the WAIT STAFF...
I then asked her...Did you ever meet Carty at the Toledo Club while employed there...
She replied..."NO"...but, he doesn't sound Polite and Nice, she said look at the commotion caused just with him getting an oil change at BP, then she added look at the poor owner of Pepe's Restuarant, he had an attack because of Carty...
Kind and Polite to a WAIT STAFF...well...that's not enough to want me to want Jack Ford as my Mayor!!!
CARTY! CARTY! CARTY!
posted by MARIELORA at 03:17 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
UnionWanted, you ask of us to stop volunteering for over time, whose volunteering, it's mandatory in our contract! How can we stop the over time when it's contractual?
MARIELORA, I share your enthusiasm with Carty's win, he won by 61%, we knew he would!
posted by lets_talk_serious at 08:24 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 09, 2005 #
Here's an idea...a VOTING POLL...VOTE FOR WHO YOU WOULD LIKE TO BE OUR NEXT CHAIRMAN...NO ONE WILL KNOW WHO YOU ARE...
CLICK LINK TO VOTE... http://snappoll.com/poll/47446.php
posted by MARIELORA at 05:36 P.M. EST on Sun Nov 13, 2005 #
Marie, you've got to make it clear to your daughter that the (s)election of a mayor is a process of finding a good manager for the job, and that is NOT at all related to the process of finding "a nice guy".
I didn't vote for Ford, and by several accounts he personally helped one of my family's members with some direction for aid for her child's autism. Sure, that was a very nice thing to do. But he still sucked as a mayor. He is obviously not qualified for the job and should never hold such an office again, until he holds a lower office (like the manager of a city department) and demonstrates competence in it.
posted by GuestZero at 02:11 A.M. EST on Tue Nov 15, 2005 #
GuestZero, my daughter is 28 years old...she thinks for herself...I tried to explain to her...whether Carty had his episodes or not...he was the MAN for the job!!!
I also told her...being nice...does NOT qualify anyone for anything...
Still...she voted for him...I think becase she felt a personal knowledge of Jack Ford...why else...would she have voted him???
Thanks, for your comment...
posted by MARIELORA at 11:43 A.M. EST on Tue Nov 15, 2005 #
What happened to Cathersis? I had thought he/she wanted to debate us.
posted by lets_talk_serious at 03:58 P.M. EST on Tue Nov 15, 2005 #
LET'S TALK SERIOUS- I'm still around. Like I said before, I don't have a regular schedule for internet access. Actually, I was hoping to prompt others to debate the issue at hand.
You want me to convince you unions are necessary? Considering how far things have slid over the past 10 yrs. that is a tall task. I guess I would start by having us all envision where we would be without them. Yes, the republican controlled supreme court and national labor relations board have tipped the scales in favor of big business but unions still have a say, although a smaller one than we used to have, in how things go. The absence of the UAW would leave the corporations open to take things back 100 years- no benefits, medieval hours and working conditions, no health and safety considerations, and wages at pre-world war one levels. These are the things that prompted labor movements in the first place. You could also say goodbye to the middle-class in america. Do you think big business will pay current wages just out of the goodness of their hearts when they see more profits on the horizon? Ain't gonna happen. They will squeeze every drop of blood out of this rock that they can. It's time to start looking at things with this in mind.
Toyota, Honda, and the other non-union companies who pay well do so to stave off attempts of infiltration by the labor unions. If they pay just about as much and give comparable, but not as quite as much, in the way of benefits that makes it so that it's not as attractive for the rank and file to vote "yes" to ratification. And money aside, can you picture your work day if you didn't have the option of sicking your steward on some punk-ass young boss, fresh out of college, who wants to give you a hard time? Without the unions what's to stop him? He could do what he wants because you would have NO recourse.
LET"S TALK SERIOUS the unions might be damaged but they are not beyond repair. Just like it took us a long time to dig ourselves into this hole it will take us a long time to climb out too. What you are saying in your post is exactly the way Daimler wants us to think. This is just another step towards breaking the unions. Don't be suckered along for the ride.
As for your comment about the union reps, don't you think we owe it to ourselves, our families, and future generations to have our best and brightest negotiating in our corners? Look what past ways and old-school ideas have done for us lately. It's a thinking war now and we're completely defenseless and out-gunned. We are going against artillery with slingshots in most, but not all, cases. In warfare, sports, or any type of confrontation if your current battle strategy doesn't work YOU MAKE CHANGES! You don't keep fighting with the same tired plan that your opponent already knows how to beat. We need an infusion of fresh blood with fresh ideas. Out with the old, in with the new.
posted by Catharsis at 04:33 A.M. EST on Sat Nov 19, 2005 #
Well, Catharsis, the REALITY is that the present rank-and-file have ZERO ability to withstand the natural supremacy (or "advantages") of the owner class. The union ranks are filled with "pre-rich" ... they spend about 103% of their income. There is no margin for anything remotely unionistic like conducting a long enough strike to make a difference.
Your union members are acting economically like spoiled children, and the grown-ups are coming along with the biggest paddle you've ever seen. And there's really only one set to blame for this primarily: the consumers.
Sometime in the 1990s even the densest union member had to understand that America was being looted in order to make a new international elite. Even "trickle down" (i.e. supply-side economics) would not return any benefits domestically whatsoever anymore, since most margins among the West's wealthy are chasing overseas assets in order to exploit a larger ROI. Factories had been closing in significant numbers since the 1980s. So what did the average union member do with his $25/hr?
Why, he went out and SPENT IT ... on larger homes, larger vehicles, endless entertainment services (cellphones, Internet access, video rentals, etc.), expensive niche items that should have been luxuries (vacation homes, motor homes, boats of all kinds, jet-skis, ATVs, etc.), outrageously expensive luxuries heaped upon children (private schooling, music lessons, cellphones, computers, vacations, etc.) ... and so on.
I see rafts of people shopping at Wal*Mart, and I just shake my head. Your (temporary) money simply leaves the country thereby, and pads the insatiable profit margins of the domestic wealthy which become more like Medieval nobility with each passing year.
Globalization as presently enacted is just a program for reducing America to a Third World status. But said globalization requires our day-by-day cooperation. Union members should understand this, hence should then stop cooperating. Before the sheriff comes one day to abruptly reduce your standard of living, you should REDUCE IT YOURSELF.
I used to be paid relatively large wages while I lived in Massachusetts. As a single renter, I was middle-middle-class (upper-middle-class compared to Toledo) and didn't realize the fundmental truth of the matter: that my status was temporary and that I had to constantly live with the anticipation of having essentially ZERO income for years at a stretch. I did save significant amounts, and arrived here in Toledo in 1997 with about $40K, but again, I still didn't fully realize the extent of my position. I have no degree and have the wrong last name. As far as the owning class is concerned, those facts mean I'm a migrant laborer and should be paid accordingly (i.e. starvation wages if possible).
Large wages as currently enjoyed by many (remaining) union members is a temporary thing (and the same thing applies to the generic degreed folk whose work is also moving overseas). $25/hr is a great wage, but is actually a terrible wage if you find yourself on the hook for various (largely voluntary) expenses and are facing years of un- and under-employment, which at the end puts you into the $10/hr category of worker for the rest of your working life.
The 19th Century is returning to America, using the unsecured capital gains of the 20th Century to force-form the 21st Century labor force. You well suspected that from what you already said. What matters is what we can do about it. I've already given up on populism. The general public are essentially sheep who don't dare challenge the owning class for very important (but stupid) reasons. I expect the government to form an even closer alliance with the needs of corporations over citizens, and large businesses over smaller ones -- and all the while cheered onward by the pre-rich Capitalism loyalists swimming in debt. What matters in this dim picture is personal choice. What can therefore be done is the starvation of the corporate-government axis by the reduced demands of the people, as they carefully husband their own resources and reserve those resources for their own needs.
By the early 1990s, Americans had about twice the standard of living enjoyed by those in 1940s America. The 1940s weren't that bad. So we have a large margin which we can give up in order to secure the remaining standard of living. I pity the dipsh*ts who don't understand this as they ride their paychecks into the ground. The times are coming where they will be unable to make any further significant choices. The sight of homeless upon American streets will become quite common. I'm just not stirred by sympathy thereby ... and doubly so since I've my own homelessness to stave off (having narrowly avoided it only 3 years ago).
posted by GuestZero at 02:15 P.M. EST on Sat Nov 19, 2005 #
Cathersis comment: The absence of the UAW would leave the corporations open to take things back 100 years- no benefits, medieval hours and working conditions, no health and safety considerations, and wages at pre-world war one levels. These are the things that prompted labor movements in the first place. You could also say goodbye to the middle-class in america. Do you think big business will pay current wages just out of the goodness of their hearts when they see more profits on the horizon? Ain't gonna happen. They will squeeze every drop of blood out of this rock that they can. It's time to start looking at things with this in mind.
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My reply: Unions, not only the U.A.W. did bring what is NOW labor laws, which is a good thing, our retirees and those before worked hard to bring what is now today, let's talk today, the unions are not viable, they can no longer negotiate higher wages, examples: Northwest, Delta, DELPHI last but not least SUPPLIER PARK, OUR JEEP JOBS SOLD OFF, EMPLOYEES WILL EARN $12.00-$13.00 per hire (unless a Daimler retiree who will earn $25.00 per hour) Toyota, Honda who are NON UNION pay their employees $20.00 plus per hour.
What POWER does the unions have when they: negotiated contracts that have language that we can only STRIKE ON HEALTH AND SAFETY, in ENGLISH: THE UNION HAS LOST THE ONLY TOOL THEY HAD, STRIKE!
Any suggestions on who would be an intelligent factory work to negotiate our contract? Why doesn't the union have the company not only pay their wages as they currently do, but pay for 5-6 attorneys to sit in on these TALKS?
The writing is on the wall Cathersis, it's called GLOBALIZATION, CHINA, COMPETITIVE, N.A.F.T.A. and as GuestZero's comment says, it all began in the 1990's.
Question Cathersis, Bethleham Steel, UNION, CLOSED, A.P. Parts, UNION, CLOSED, Toledo Scale, UNION, CLOSED, L.O.F. UNION, CLOSED, DELPHI, U.A.W. $10.00 per hour.
Good luck Cathersis with your QUEST to find an intelligent representative to negotiate our contract. Unions are dying a slow painful death.
Happy Thanksgiving, enjoy your PAID HOLIDAY'S, who knows if it will be negotiated again.
posted by lets_talk_serious at 05:51 P.M. EST on Sat Nov 19, 2005 #
Cathersis you also made comment, "out with the old, in with the new".
Who would be "the new" you commented yourself as a "crusader" "out with the old", would this include Region 2B?
posted by lets_talk_serious at 06:29 P.M. EST on Sat Nov 19, 2005 #
GuestZero, Yes, we are becoming a Third World Country...the Middle Class is being eliminated and yes union auto workers wages will be cut drastically, this I believe...
I may sound selfish, but I believed I had it licked, I was getting out of there without a scratch last March, (with the 28 years and out)...our Leaders, Chairman and Vice, obviousely relayed BAD information to us, for me with this Union Business is NOT believing in them...somehow, they have forgotten their job was to SERVE us, listening to talk on the line during the contract negotiations was as such "our union representatives are staying in a hotel, wining and dining hookers, getting drunk and high..." that's the amount of RESPECT we the members have for our representatives.
It's going to take more than SMART REPRESENTATIVES...My belief being, there will be a REVOLUTION...and...OUR CHILDREN WILL BE FIGHTING IT...they have lived this NEW LIVING WAGE...atleast my daughter has, she's 28, they have NO HEALTHCARE (as we complain of our co-pay of $10.00 for a prescription, co-pay toward an office visit)...they have NO PAID SICK LEAVES, CHRISTMAS BONUS, PROFIT SHARING, THEY ARE SICK AND TIRED OF WORKING 2 JOBS AND STILL CANNOT AFFORD A DECENT VEHICLE, NEVER A VACATION...
Yes there will be a Revolution...
posted by MARIELORA at 07:55 P.M. EST on Sat Nov 19, 2005 #
How am I to feel about any union representative? At Stickney we were given two interpretations of the language in the contract (contract books we still do not pocess) on overtime. With one representative saying yes, it's contractual, another saying no, it is not! I will agree intelligence was never something I saw in my representation. Though I do think the company will have the last say, that is who we all work for. Look at the job eliminations, they don't stop. Talk on the line is job bank funds are being watched carefully, appointed position hours cut, some eliminated, with the appointed postion hours cut, it has become a cut throat situation, appointed positions bumping a worker for the overtime only, how can an appointed position have the option to hold 2 jobs? 40 hours appointed, overtime bump a line worker. Line talk is our union is not united, the comparison was that they are all from different countries all knowing a different language that's why we have so many different intrepretations of the contract (which we still do not pocess).
Lets_talk_serious, there has to be a tool to mediate between the worker and company, that tool being human resources, which many call before they bother to call a representative.
MARIELORA, we all know you feel misled. Don't feel alone every one of us has been lied to by our representatives at one time or another.
I'm not going to talk about the jeep mess anymore. I don't care who is voted in for chairman, etc.,it makes no difference to me.
posted by ajeepthing at 03:46 P.M. EST on Sun Nov 20, 2005 #
Assuming "contract books" are the actual written text of the company-union contract, and further assuming that these books are the only sources available to the workers, then I think the lack of contract books is a clear statement to the workers that they are not actually in a union anymore. The so-called confusion of union reps about contract details is either a logical conclusion from a lack of information, or is a calculated move by management to sow confusion amongst the rank-and-file. Confused people are very poor decision makers, and when acting, move in an uncoordinated fashion.
It strikes me as a valid prediction to say that within 5 years, there will still be a union at Jeep, but that it will do absolutely NOTHING for workers. Instead, it will collect dues and file reams of make-work (or existence-justifying) paperwork. The workers will learn to avoid the union reps since they are either hostile, confused, or both. The dues will come out of smaller paychecks, but workers will still mouth the myth that a union is needed to "keep their jobs" (note the conspicuous lack of language about "good wages").
Within 3 years from now, your $12/hr workers will start avoiding proper OSHA reporting, since they will be so scared of losing their jobs. People will start getting hurt from all the bad conditions that will persist in all the silence.
Of course, about 8 years from now when Jeep tries to get more blood (i.e. tax abatements) out of a stone (i.e. Toledo), the city will be unable to offer anything since it will be so desperate for tax revenue from any source whatsoever. And then Jeep will move to another municipality that offers the highest bribe (kind of along the lines of what O-I will be doing in 2006).
Case closed. After all, it appears that Jeep's workers voted FOR a contract that specified that strikes can ONLY happen for "health and safety" reasons. Nice way to disarm yourselves, chums! You have ZERO power in the face of a rapacious enemy (i.e. Jeep management and owners). Historically the end results are a mass rape followed by a mass grave.
posted by GuestZero at 10:30 P.M. EST on Sun Nov 20, 2005 #
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10138507/...It keeps happening each and every week...now...General Motors announces Plant Closings with 30,000 employees CUT!!!
Atleast, DELPHI is reaping MORE THAN THESE 30,000 employees...IS WHAT OUR U.A.W. REPRESENTATION IS MORE THAN LIKELY SAYING!!!
It's all so SAD...I am AFRAID!!!
posted by MARIELORA at 10:21 A.M. EST on Mon Nov 21, 2005 #
I had commented...Atleast, DELPHI is reaping MORE THAN THESE 30,000 employees...IS WHAT OUR U.A.W. REPRESENTATION IS MORE THAN LIKELY SAYING!!!
As SAD as it is...it's the truth!!!
posted by MARIELORA at 10:44 A.M. EST on Mon Nov 21, 2005 #
The end of our union way of life is at hand and what are our unions doing, road trips and racing. What a life man.... some have got it made... do a couple of photo shoots a month... post them on the web & paper and call it a day!!! Meanwhile workers are loosing pensions, taking huge pay cuts, and job eliminations...but life goes on see you in Vegas. Well... maybe not you and I. Because we can't take a day off without proper notification three weeks in advance and in triplicate forms of documentation.
http://www.uawdcx.com/resources/news.cfm?NewsID=1345
http://www.uawdcx.com/resources/news.cfm?NewsID=1385
posted by UnionWanted at 05:29 P.M. EST on Mon Nov 21, 2005 #
What have we been saying on this website for the past 8 months. The company paid union is in bed with Daimler’s representatives literally. Allegations of sexual harassment reported in the November 23rd 2005 Toledo Blade http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051123/BUSINESS02/511230349/-1/BUSINESS
By line workers in the form of a lawsuit in U.S. district court. Our local 12 employee assistance program coordinator was also named in the lawsuit as compliant. If you remember just a few months ago this EAP leading coordinator was featured in the BLADE as qualified and trained. This story, I believe, was spoon fed by our Local 12 to the Blade as a way to calm the general public after Mr. Myles and recent Cox shootings. I believe the only reason the Blade printed this story was the fear that the Detroit News or others in Toledo would scoop this Story. These people are not chosen by their talents but by their loyalty to the leadership. Teamwork is alive and well at jeep it's run by the darkside. The workers have no one to turn to; no one represents their true interests.
At jeep we do have an Ethics Code but it is generally not followed by our leadership, company or Union.
In closing, take a look over the past years at all the Jeep press that has boiled to the top and reported by the Media. Do you agree that there is trouble in paradise? We the workers do not care to work in this environment with all the problems in the auto industry one would think our real leadership should stop the games and consider serious change. Or watch our union completely die from its own doings.
Scott Batey attorney representing these jeep unit workers states in the Toledo Blade, "Toledo officials seem to retaliate against women who report harassment instead of supporting them. Part of the problem is the close relationship Chrysler and Local 12 have at Jeep “he said” They tend to be partners Mr. Bates said. ”They were supposed to represent these women, and they weren’t doing that.”
posted by UnionWanted at 04:49 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 23, 2005 #
UnionWanted, my opinion on the alleged charges...Number One...Frazier and Lee Herbert should be suspended immediately pending outcome of the lawsuit...
Number Two...wohmever these ladies talked with in our Jeep Unit Union and Local 12 with NOTHING being done in their support...should be made available to all of US the members...who should VOTE to keep SAID REPRESENTATIVES that did NOTHING about the complaints these ladies has/had.
Number Three...Great Courage these ladies do have, they're going against Local 12 and our Jeep Unit Representatives probably moreso than the Company Management...
Lastly...I agree whole heart and have actually made comment to the fact that we NEED professionally trained personel at Jeep Corp., not a line worker chosen by Jeep Unit Union to represent us as an EAP Rep., obviousley...
May I add...BRAVO Julie McKinnon for reporting this story...I am sure this wasn't an easy story to get in PRINT...BRAVO to you, Julie!!!
Have a Happy
Thanksgiving!!!!
posted by MARIELORA at 05:34 P.M. EST on Wed Nov 23, 2005 #
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