Here's the link to the full story:
http://www.nbc24.com/Global/story.asp?S=4398988
posted by sparky at 08:15 P.M. EST on Mon Jan 23, 2006 #
Does downtown Toledo strike anyone else as an odd location for a Bass Pro Shop? I mean, a woodsy,
outdoorsy, hunting store in the middle of rust belt urban blight? The river is there, I guess that works, but that's it.
To me the environment that fits these stores is exactly like what Cabela's is in: rural fields and woodlands. I know that that environment is only a couple of miles from the marina, but you have to go through a couple of trainyards and refineries to get there.
I don't know. I'm not a marketing genius or anything, but it seems like a square peg in a round hole.
posted by babbleman at 09:04 P.M. EST on Mon Jan 23, 2006 #
"Does downtown Toledo strike anyone else as an odd location for a Bass Pro Shop?"
Not at all, in my opinion, for the reasons I stated a few days ago.
"The location of the Cabela's in Dundee isn't geographically pleasing. That area is nowhere near as attractive as along the wide and slow-moving Maumee River with the Toledo skyline on the other side, the high-level bridge, and the impressive new I-280 bridge in sight when it's completed."
Cabela's in Dundee sits in an open field that was a big nothing. Dundee Cabela's is not near a big hardwood or pine forest. No water. A water tower, but no lake or river. It's a good place to sell John Deere tractors.
The reason an indoor waterpark will be going in next to Cabela's is for those family members who don't have an interest in an outdoor store. Downtown Toledo has other activity options available. People can spend a night or two in downtown Toledo and visit Bass Pro and other places in and near downtown Toledo. Hotels have been built and are now being expanded near the Dundee Cabela's. Downtown Toledo has hotels.
A few days ago, I also said:
"A Bass Pro in the Marina District, located on the banks of the mighty Maumee and a short boat trip away from western Lake Erie, which is one of the best fishing holes in the county, looks too good to be true."
And don't forget that a little upstream in the Maumee River, anglers from all over the Midwest fish for walleye during the spring spawning run. So a downtown location has an outdoors-like appeal, and the downtown provides other options for visiting family members not interested in the outdoors.
If you're talking attractive locations, a Bass Pro in downtown Toledo along the Maumee River makes a lot more sense than locating it in a soybean field that's surrounded by corn fields.
posted by jr at 10:56 P.M. EST on Mon Jan 23, 2006 #
I agree JR. There's a Bass Pro Shop in Nashville....not downtown, but still definitely in the city. If anyone has ever been there then you know it must be doing wonderfully seeing the crowds there constantly. I'm assuming they're also looking at the Levis Commons area. That would be a good place as well, and it would definitely work for them. However, I don't think Levis Commons is going to draw more people than a location in downtown Toledo. In fact, downtown Toledo (and the river) offer much to a store like BPS.
I also think the City of Toledo will really push for the Marina District as far as marketing goes, so that would be a huge boost to BPS. There will undoubtedly be tax abatements for the company, and I wouldn't doubt that there are thoughts of waving other taxes for the company for a couple years. A Bass Pro Shop in the Marina District would do more for East Toledo and Downtown than most anything else that's a possibility. The traffic in and out of Toledo would be enormous and that would inevitably bring further investment in the form of hotels and restaurants and other retail.
posted by HeyHey at 11:34 P.M. EST on Mon Jan 23, 2006 #
Babbleman,
I thought the same exact thing you did until I heard jr's rationale. Now I think it is genious! Imagine all of the boat traffic it would draw!!!
But...hold on...We are in competition with Perrysburg? Oh no...there goes that idea.
posted by lloyd at 11:58 P.M. EST on Mon Jan 23, 2006 #
I thought the same exact thing you did until I heard jr's rationale.
Yes, as Jr frames it, it makes a lot more sense. Ok I'm in :)
Jr, are you in marketing?
posted by babbleman at 07:04 A.M. EST on Tue Jan 24, 2006 #
Johnny Morris, owner of Bass Pro’s Outdoor World stores also has his Worldwide Sportsman component, which has a fishing/boating emphasis. There are two of them, as far as I know, both if Florida at marinas and they have bars and restaurants. The first time I went to the one in the Keys I had to put my head between my legs to keep from passing out, then I ran to a phone to activate a credit card! Since the Toledo location would be near the marina district, although not a saltwater marina like the others, I’m imagining sort of cross between Outdoor World and a freshwater Worldwide Sportsman. I believe many boaters would welcome dockage at such a supplier of marine, sporting goods, food and libation. So would many, many motorists. And, if I don’t get back to work this morning, I may have to apply for a job there.
posted by Offshore at 08:01 A.M. EST on Tue Jan 24, 2006 #
...has a fishing/boating emphasis...in Florida at marinas and they have bars and restaurants...boaters would welcome dockage at such a supplier of marine, sporting goods, food and libation...
Absolutely, I can see the marine, boating, fishing aspect. It's the camouflage, crossbow, turkey hunting part that seems a bit off.
posted by babbleman at 08:16 A.M. EST on Tue Jan 24, 2006 #
I live in Perrysburg. For me I can be to Cabelas in 20-30 minutes. Gander Mountain, and Dick's also sell hunting stuff. For the East side and beyond there is only Woodville Surplus. So, I suppose for “locals” the camo/hunt stuff would be welcome. Also,Bass Pro has demonstrations and interactive kid activities perfect for cold winter days. Even though the boating/fishing season is short in these parts, I get giddy just thinking about a cold brew along the Maumee.
posted by Offshore at 08:33 A.M. EST on Tue Jan 24, 2006 #
God Bless Carty Finkbiner!
This is why he was re-elected. I was just about to post: "I give permission for Carty to give away the farm to lure Bass Pro World to Toledo, who's with me?" and I found this on the Blade'e website:
Mayor Carty Finkbeiner spent four hours yesterday morning with Bass Pro Shops President Jim Hagale, including escorting him on a helicopter tour to show off the city's interstate access points...
The mayor prepared for the visit by having billboards adorned with slogans such as, "Jim, Toledo's hooked on [Bass Pro]." In place of the words "Bass Pro" was the company's logo, a fish.
Mr. Finkbeiner said Mr. Hagale was shown two possible locations in the Marina District by representatives of the district's developer, Pizzuti Cos. of Columbus.
"He saw the possibility of their boating trade as a natural fit for that site," Mr. Finkbeiner said...
...included enlisting the 30-member Central Catholic High School marching band, summoned to perform the University of Notre Dame fight song during a luncheon at the Navy Bistro at The Docks. Mr. Hagale is a Notre Dame graduate.
I was just about to post a topic to solve the mystery of these billboards too...lol...not necessary now.
posted by lloyd at 09:00 A.M. EST on Tue Jan 24, 2006 #
I have to agree Carty knows how to "sell" and I would seriously doubt at least on that scale Wood County provided what Toledo did. Now will that work to convince Jim Hagale that Toledo wants Bass Pro?
Just might...
posted by psyche777 at 10:28 A.M. EST on Tue Jan 24, 2006 #
Although I think that the marching band was a little cheesy, I can't help but be impressed by Carty's enthusiasm and "pull out all the stops" strategy. Can anyone else see Jack Ford giving an executive a helicopter tour of the city? *sound of crickets chirping* Me either. I may not agree with his strategy 100% of the time, but I love that passion!
posted by Ace_Face at 11:37 A.M. EST on Tue Jan 24, 2006 #
It's not a done deal, yet. But I believe it's close. Although that Wood County visit is a surprise. I remember being excited back in 1999 or so when Rossford announced their grand plans for a new arena, a top-notch Red Wings farm team, and the amphitheater. Then the Toledo sports arena owner said he would build a new arena. The Rossford dream went up in smoke, and Toledo still has no new arena. And Perrysburg got caught up in the Rossford mess too, I think. Wouldn't it be something if Perrysburg/Wood County pulled the rug out from under Toledo/Lucas County by getting the Bass Pro to build near Levis Commons or along Rt 20 east of Perrysburg? The Bass Pro would open by 2008, and Toledo would still be without an arena.
The Bass Pro rumor surfaced last May if not earlier. The NBC 24 story from last week said:
"This is the second try to lure Bass Pro Shops to the Marina District. Former mayor Jack Ford hoped the outdoor outfitter would go into the former Acme Power Plant, a deal that failed because city officials could not guarantee asbestos would be removed from the site in time for a 2007 grand opening."
If Toledo is chosen, the Bass Pro would be in the Marina District and near the new boat marina.
Dec 15, 2005 Blade story:
"Stacks of steel I-beams near the shuttered Acme power plant attest to the beginning of something Toledo residents have looked forward to for five years - actual construction in the Marina District. William Carroll, the city's director of economic and community development, showed off the early stages of $7.6-million worth of construction on a public marina, a passenger ship terminal, and a new road."
"The Toledo-Lucas County Port Authority is developing the terminal, which will serve Great Lakes cruise ships. The terminal will have a U.S. Customs office, shops, a restaurant, and amenities for boaters tying up in the adjacent marina, such as shower and restroom facilities, swimming pool, and playground."
"Toledo Councilman Frank Szollosi, chairman of council's economic development committee, said the facilities are set to open in mid-2007."
So the boat marina and a Bass Pro could be open by mid to late 2007.
The shocking thing about Toledo is:
"Mr. Carroll said Toledo currently has no full-service public marina."
A show I like to watch on PBS is Great Lakes Ports O' Call. The show hosts, naturally, visit towns on the Great Lakes via a boat. They'll profile a town's history, industry, tourist attractions, etc. During the show, they'll show you entering the town's marina. They'll talk with the marina owner or an operator of the marina who will discuss all the aspects of the marina: landmarks when entering, facilities.
Of course, Toledo has not been featured on the PBS show. It's amazing that a city the size of Toledo does not have a full-service public marina.
Ports featured on the PBS show:
Ashtabula, Ohio (Lake Erie)
Beaver Island, Michigan (Lake Michigan)
Caseville, MI (Lake Huron)
Charlevoix, Michigan (Lake Michigan)
Cheboygan, MI (Lake Huron)
Detroit, Michigan (Detroit River)
Door County, WI (Lake Michigan)
Erie, Pennsylvania (Lake Erie)
Frankfort, Michigan (Lake Michigan)
Goderich, Ontario (Lake Huron)
Grand Bend, ON (Lake Huron)
Harbor Springs, MI (Lake Michigan)
Holland, Michigan (Lake Michigan)
Kelley's Island, Ohio (Lake Erie)
Kewaunee, Wisconsin (Lake Michigan)
Kincardine, Ontario (Lake Huron)
Leamington, Ontario (Lake Erie)
Leland, MI (Lake Michigan)
Lexington, Michigan (Lake Huron)
Ludington, MI (Lake Michigan)
Mackinac Island, MI (Lake Huron)
Mackinaw City, MI (Lake Huron)
Manistee, MI (Lake Michigan)
Manitowoc, WI (Lake Michigan)
Marquette, Michigan (Lake Superior)
Michigan City, IN (Lake Michigan)
Munising, Michigan (Lake Superior)
Muskegon, Michigan (Lake Michigan)
Pentwater, Michigan (Lake Michigan)
Port Clinton, Ohio (Lake Erie)
Port Elgin, ON (Lake Huron)
Port Huron, MI (Lake Huron)
Port Washington, Wisconsin (Lake Michigan)
Presque Isle, MI (Lake Huron)
Put-in-Bay, OH (Lake Erie)
Sandusky, OH (Lake Erie)
Saugatuck, MI (Lake Michigan)
Sault Ste. Marie, MI (Lake Superior)
South Haven, Michigan (Lake Michigan)
Suttons Bay, MI (Lake Michigan)
Tawas City, MI (Lake Huron)
Vermilion, OH (Lake Erie)
Cleveland isn't on that list either. Don't they have a full-service public marina?
At least with Cabela's, these outdoor stores are more than hunting and fishing. Cabela's has a lot of camping gear. Ohio's state park system is rated high nationally. I assume Bass Pro also sells camping gear. Also, Cabela's in Dundee has a women's clothing area. It's not formal wear, of course, but it's not camo and hunter orange either. If you haven't been inside Cabela's, you should check it out just for curiosity reasons. Go upstairs to their restaurant and get yourself a caribou burger or something like that. Interesting menu. They also serve pizza for the less adventurous.
posted by jr at 12:44 P.M. EST on Tue Jan 24, 2006 #
Bass Pro definitely sells camping gear. They also have a good sized golf section and an outdoor practice and testing area. It seems like I remember a winter sports section too. At least that's what the Nashville store has. Bass Pro also has a fairly extensive selection of boats, both pleasure and fishing. The Nashville store has at least 30 boats or so in the store, and I think they also have some campers/RVs located outside. There are also ATVs in the store, and since this is Toledo it would make since that they include snow mobiles. Having been in both Cabella's and Bass Pro, I think the Cabella's in Dundee has more in the way of displays of stuffed animals and aquariums. Bass Pro has those things, but it's not quite as extensive. The number and variety of products sold seems to be larger in Bass Pro.
posted by HeyHey at 12:59 P.M. EST on Tue Jan 24, 2006 #
I would have never realized the impact of a Bass Pro Shop on the Marina District project without reading these postings. I have to admit I am a little geeked up.
The idea of a Marina District, particularly, the retail and residential expectations always seemed a little weird to me. The east side has a lot of potential, but much of this area needs to be cleaned up. The restaurants at the docs do not see enough actual TPS patrols. There is half ass security, but cars are still being broken into regularly- often by juvenile delinquents in the area. I guess what I am saying is that the crime issue in this part of town needs to be acknowledged.
Sorry to take you off subject. The Maumee is definitely one of Toledo's core assets. I will just cross my fingers that this thing could happen in the City rather than aid the westward sprawl.
posted by nick44 at 06:12 P.M. EST on Tue Jan 24, 2006 #
I heard nothing about parking. Have you seen the parking lot at cabela's? Do you think our toledo leaders will give up precious land for parking? The reason that all the downtown events don't work?...PARKING...I wonder if that chopper went over Oregon?? Probably not, they are a little slow, besides they don't like businesses like Home Depot...
Sorry Oregon.
posted by TIME at 07:05 P.M. EST on Tue Jan 24, 2006 #
I say take him to one of Toledo's fine strip clubs! Woot!
posted by paddington at 08:56 P.M. EST on Tue Jan 24, 2006 #
Jr-
You seem to bring up an interesting point, but it makes me wonder: how do you think the potential Marina District would compete with Port Clinton or Put-in-Bay
posted by lloyd at 09:16 P.M. EST on Tue Jan 24, 2006 #
What if a Jet Express-like service existed from Toledo to Put-In-Bay? Toledo wouldn't get as many Jet Express runs, naturally, because of the distance. I'd drive from West Toledo to the Marina District in 5-10 minutes. Hop on the the Jet Express for a nice ride across the lake to Put-In-Bay. Spend the day and the evening there and take the last Express back to Toledo. Then another 5-10 minute drive home instead of driving late a night for an hour or more on Rt 2.
It would be a long ride across the lake so I'm not sure such a service would be feasible. But wasn't something like this tried several years ago?
I don't think there would be competition between the Marina District and Port Clinton/Put-In-Bay. I'd think a lot of boaters from Michigan and Ohio would like to stop at the T-town marina and check out the downtown activities. Maybe a night or day game at the Hens or whatever. With public transportation, a boater docked at the Toledo marina has the ability to more easily see other Toledo sites that are outside the core downtown district.
How do boaters at these other marinas get around the town they are visiting? Bicycle, golf cart, walk. To get to the Toledo Zoo, a boater will need more than a golf cart. Is there a study that shows how far a boater will venture from her boat to see the town she is docked in? I would think with buses and taxis, Toledo provides more options to get further away from the marina than a small town marina would. In some of these small places, you don't need to go any further than what you can do with walking or with a golf cart. With Toledo's marina, we want boaters visiting to not spend all of their time near the marina.
posted by jr at 09:03 A.M. EST on Wed Jan 25, 2006 #
I think we are on to something here, but I am thinking the opposite of you jr. I think the Marina District can pull away customers from Put-in-Bay. Perhaps Toledo could be a stop in a Jet Express loop.
I am starting to think part of the incentive package for Bass should include a marketing blitz to areas north and east of here going up to Detroit and Cleveland. There is alot of potential customers out there:-)
posted by lloyd at 09:25 A.M. EST on Wed Jan 25, 2006 #
Sounds like Carty and crew were thinking what I was thinking:
In addition to hearing a high school band play the Notre Dame fight song and taking a helicopter to tour Toledo, Bass Pro president Jim Hagale, scouting the region Monday for a new location, also was subjected to kitchen-sink schtick.
As part of the show, Don Monroe, executive director of River East Economic Revitalization Corp., picked up a fiber-glass sink and feigned handing it to the executive, demonstrating a willingness to give everything for Bass Pro to come to the Marina District, Councilman Bob McCloskey said.
It was the full-court press: Fifth Third Field lit up its lights for Mr. Hagale, and University of Toledo football Coach Tom Amstutz gave him a Toledo Rockets football helmet and a jersey with number 1. Mr. McCloskey gave him some local books about the history of East Toledo.
Billboards donated by Lamar Outdoor Advertising showed the Bass Pro logo, a fish, and welcomed a Jim without listing the company, an effort to hide the visit from the media, Mr. McCloskey said.
This is great! Jack Ford would have never done anything like this!
The article goes on to say:
But [Mr. Hagale] explained to us … that they are the No. 1 seller of boats in the country," he said, meaning that potential buyers could actually try out boat models on the Maumee.
This sounds like a match made in heaven if you ask me!!
posted by lloyd at 09:35 A.M. EST on Wed Jan 25, 2006 #
Yes JR it seems they did try a ferry to Put-in-Bay. The whole thing would certainly be a boon to the Western end of Lake Erie in general. Personally, I’m not crazy about “The Bay” and in spite of my user name, would much prefer a closer and more accessible location.
posted by Offshore at 12:10 P.M. EST on Wed Jan 25, 2006 #
On Monday January 23, Carty was flying over Toledo in a helicopter with the Bass Pro president, trying to sell the city to Bass Pro.
Later that same in evening in his state of the city speech, Carty: "chastised an absent Liz Holland, chief executive officer of Westgate's corporate owners, not to make Toledo settle for low design standards."
From Carty's speech:
"I point to Levis Commons as a prime example. Toledo recognized this truth about high quality development when our 20/20 Master Plan formally designated the Westgate area to be developed as an urban village with walkable streets and a proper balance between the automobile and the pedestrian. Liz Holland, the owner of Westgate property, lives in Chicago where high design standards have been very successful. She needs to work with the City to support the neighborhood principles at Westgate that have so enhanced property values in her hometown."
First of all, this is a low-class move by Carty. What a scumbag Carty is. He calls out Holland by name and attempts to paint Holland in a negative light. Uncouth, that's Carty.
Here are the list of names Carty used in his speech:
"Thank you and good evening, President Ludeman, ..."
"I again salute Presidents Johnson and Jacobs, and their respective boards, on this cooperative venture."
"And Get Fit Toledo will support in every way, shape and form, the journey to fitness of our spokesperson, Toledo’s favorite coach, Tom Amstutz."
"Recently, we submitted to Governor Taft, ..."
That's it. Holland's was the only name Carty used in negative fashion.
Should we send a copy of Carty's speech to the Bass Pro president and to General Motors and to Costco, so those businesses can see what they're up against in Toledo and Lucas County?
Carty didn't mention Bass Pro in his speech.
Westgate is a $35 million development on 23 acres. Perrysburg craps turds bigger than 23 acres and worth more than $35 million.
How can Carty compare Levis Commons to Westgate? It can't be done with any kind of intellectual integrity. Well, maybe that explains why Carty brought up Levis Commons.
Levis Commons is a monster compared to Westgate. Levis Commons announced last week a $150 million expansion.
Carty's and the county's attitude toward Holland is disgusting. And I have a hunch why. She's a woman, and redneck Carty believes he can push her around.
See, Toledo needs Bass Pro, but Bass Pro doesn't need Toledo. Toledo needs GM, but GM doesn't need Toledo. So you won't see any of this stupid, bullying behaviour from Carty when negotiating with GM and Bass Pro.
Holland's grandfather built Westgate 50 years ago, and Carty knows or assumes that no matter what, Holland will continue to manage Westgate in Toledo. Carty assumes that Holland won't tell Toledo to go to hell and spend that $35 million somewhere else in the country.
Carty knows he can get away with being a prick with Holland. He knows he can't do that with GM and Bass Pro. Bass Pro is looking at Wood County. GM is looking at Flint and Mexico for their expansion. Holland isn't looking anywhere else to put Westgate. As far as we know.
The Marina District plan calls for a 150,000 sq ft retail anchor store. That's a big box store. If it's Bass Pro and even if it's not square, it's a damn big box store. Where's the outrage for such a large big box store in the Marina District?
The Marina District is 125 acres and the development for that project will probably run into the hundreds of millions of dollars. A valid comparison is comparing Levis Commons to the Marina District and not to Westgate.
Carty and the county needs to get the hell out of Holland's way and focus on the big fish projects. Otherwise, who knows, it could all come crashing down. GM goes to Flint. Costco and Bass Pro go to Wood County.
posted by jr at 05:59 P.M. EST on Wed Jan 25, 2006 #
JR, very well said.
posted by Offshore at 08:35 P.M. EST on Wed Jan 25, 2006 #
I've been to Put-In Bay several times (at the urging of others) and think it sucks, myself. But I'm all for the Bass Pro shop coming here.
posted by Foolkiller at 06:10 A.M. EST on Thu Jan 26, 2006 #
The “Bay” to me is a bunch of sloppy, obnoxious drunks…and that’s only the afternoon. The merchants and cops are generally unfriendly... yada, yada.
There seems to be societal phenomena where retail substitutes for what was formally a town square or church or “center” to congregate. A couple of years ago I was in a small town in Kentucky where I went to a Wal-Mart on a Saturday night and the place was packed; kids eating ice cream cones amid adults chatting and mingling, and it was nearly midnight. A well-planned marina district could provide that same sort of thing with a far- reaching economic multiplier affect as outlined above. That’s not an original idea. But, to have an anchor like Bass Pro would complete it nicely. Unfortunately Carty’s bluster may blow it and Bass Pro may come to Pburg where I live…hey...keep it up Carty!
posted by Offshore at 07:59 A.M. EST on Thu Jan 26, 2006 #
If you want to spend a fun and relaxing day on a Lake Erie Island, go to Kelley's Island.
The reason Carty was so low-class in his speech was because the previous Wednesday afternoon, Jan 18, Westgate's management and Toledo leaders held a private meeting. Is Carty one of the Toledo leaders and was he in this private meeting? If so, whatever Carty needed to say, he should have said it there when he was face-to-face with Holland. Instead, he chose the cowardly approach by giving Holland orders via Carty's public state of the city speech. Simply embarassing.
Remember too, that after last Wednesday's private meeting, Holland and Costco held a public meeting, so the residents could ask questions, and Carty didn't attend this public meeting. He's really a coward.
posted by jr at 11:03 A.M. EST on Thu Jan 26, 2006 #
Jan 25 WTVG story:
"Carty heard Bass Pro was coming to look at a spot in Wood County so he didn't waste any time in setting up billboards, helicopter rides, artist renderings and even a high school band. Toledo wants to lure a big retailer to Toledo's marina district and it seems Bass Pro may bite."
That's interesting. I missed this tidbit of info before, or it wasn't mentioned earlier this week. I assumed, incorrectly, that Wood County was the secondary visit for the Bass Pro president. Turns out that Wood County was the primary reason Bass Pro visited the area on Monday.
More from the story:
"If Toledo lures Bass Pro to the marina district, development of this site could be just months away. Bass Pro likes the idea of sitting along a river since the company makes and sells boats and being close to Cabela's could help Bass Pro steal some business."
"Councilman Bob [doesn't give a damn about the Marina District project] McCloskey says Bass Pro was impressed with Toledo's aggressive sales pitch and even got the developers idea of how Bass Pro would fit into the marina district."
"But Toledo is competing with Wood County in luring Bass Pro. Bass Pro wants to open store in the summer of 2007. It would take a year to build which might mean a deal could be worked out in the next couple months."
Jan 26 WTOL story:
"The competition to attract a major outdoor sporting goods retailer to northwest Ohio is heating up. The city of Toledo and Wood County are baiting their hooks, trying to snag the Bass Pro Company for a mega shopping complex similar to the Cabela's store in Dundeee, Michigan."
"While the Rossford arena-amphitheater project is dead in the water [and Toledo years later still has neither], officials in Wood County are hoping to seal a deal with Bass Pro to build one of its new stores in the nearby Crossroads Mall. That shopping center has been rapidly expanding, adding several big-box stores in the last few years."
Crossroads Mall, that's the area, I believe, along Rt 20 east of I-75.
More from the story:
"But not everyone is happy with the prospect of the company coming to town. Gary Lowry owns the Maumee Tackle Shop. His store is very busy during the spring walleye runs, and he says Bass Pro would take a bite out of his business. "The area's already saturated with sporting goods stores," said Lowery. "It'll impact not just us, but a lot of places." "
"Lowry says Toledo's mayor is contradicting himself by trying to attract a firm like Bass Pro. "If he's all for helping the small business like he says, then why is he bringing in a major store like that to compete with other businesses?" said Lowry."
When I want fishing tackle, I shop at Gary's store and Jann’s Netcraft along with Cabela's. Gary's store is the "hangout" during the spring walleye spawning run. People traveling into the area for the spring run will still go to Gary's store because he's so close to where the spring walleye fishing in the Maumee actually takes place. The main fishing areas for walleye in the Maumee during the spawning run starts just below Perrysburg and goes upstream past I-475.
posted by jr at 02:24 P.M. EST on Thu Jan 26, 2006 #
Gary’s is a great store. So is Jann’s, but their niche is largely mail order for rod builders and do-it-yourself lure makers. As you say JR, Gary’s proximity to the epicenter of the Walleye run is a huge advantage. The run season is short and I suspect Gary makes the bulk of his profits during that season. I wonder if Cabelas has hurt him. Gary has competition for lures and jigs from vendors along the river and one can get tackle at Anderson’s and Dick’s but Gary seems to thrive. Two things Gary has the others don’t are EXPERTISE and bait.
All in all, I’m hoping Bass Pro, with its wide array of products and services, goes in at the Marina District, not Wood County, serves its economic development role well, in spite of Carty. By the way…the Walleye run is just around the corner.
posted by Offshore at 03:03 P.M. EST on Thu Jan 26, 2006 #
Offshore, if you haven't visited Jann's, check it out. Jann's sells a lot of fishing tackle in their small walk-in store. They carry a good selection of soft plastic lures by Kalin's, Berkley, Gary Yamamoto, etc. And Jann's makes their own versions of the popular soft plastics. They sell a lot of lead-headed jigs and hooks, crankbaits, rubber-skirted jigs, you know, the usuals.
I've bought Dan Gapen river and stream fishing books from Jann's. My last fishing rod was built by Jann's. I picked out the parts I wanted in their catalog, walked into their store, and placed my order. Tennessee handle, of course.
I would think Gary would be hurt more by Gander Mountain and Dick's than Cabela's.
Gary no longer does Lake Erie fishing charter trips, but I still have a gift certificate for a charter with him that was given to me as a gift. He said he'd still honor it. Gary's a good guy, and that helps his business too. Another plus for Gary, he sells Charlie Brewer Slider fishing worms, which no one else seems to sell.
posted by jr at 08:47 P.M. EST on Thu Jan 26, 2006 #
The “Bay” to me is a bunch of sloppy, obnoxious drunks…and that’s only the afternoon. The merchants and cops are generally unfriendly... yada, yada.
---------------------------------------------
That was pretty much my take on it, along with over-priced goods.
posted by Foolkiller at 09:13 P.M. EST on Thu Jan 26, 2006 #
I'll third that.
posted by lloyd at 09:16 P.M. EST on Thu Jan 26, 2006 #
As a Rossford resident, I'd love to see the Bass Pro Shop locate here. Dundee South? On the other hand, Carty and the LCCs will probably put the screws to that (re: arena project) and the Toledo area will be left with nothing. Not Wood Co, not the Marina District, not anywhere.
FWIW, I think the Marina District would be a great location for BPS, so I pray these guys (Wood Co leadership or Lucas Co leadership) don't screw this thing up.
CLOSE THE DEAL !
posted by BulldogBuckeye at 10:50 P.M. EST on Thu Jan 26, 2006 #
Offshore, if you haven't visited Jann's, check it out. Jann's sells a lot of fishing tackle in their small walk-in store Thanks, my wife will love that!! All kidding aside, my wife loves to fish more than I do. Her best catch is a 130lb tarpon!
posted by Offshore at 07:50 A.M. EST on Fri Jan 27, 2006 #
I'll agree about the bay. Being stuck there is my own personal hell.
posted by nick44 at 08:17 A.M. EST on Fri Jan 27, 2006 #
The “Bay” to me is a bunch of sloppy, obnoxious drunks…and that’s only the afternoon. The merchants and cops are generally unfriendly... yada, yada. ---------------------------------------------
That was pretty much my take on it, along with over-priced goods.
I'll third that.
I'll agree about the bay. Being stuck there is my own personal hell.
Examples of Island resorts that the “Bay” wishes it was:
Friday Harbor, Washington in the San Juan Islands, Avalon-Santa Catalina Island, California, Kelly’s Island, even Key West.
posted by Offshore at 08:25 A.M. EST on Fri Jan 27, 2006 #
Honestly, when you last went to the Bay, what did you expect? That's not your scene? Then why would you go?
Personally, I love the place: sloppy obnoxious drunks and all.....although I do feel it has potential to be much much better.
posted by BulldogBuckeye at 09:23 A.M. EST on Fri Jan 27, 2006 #
Honestly, when you last went to the Bay
Two summers ago
what did you expect?
More
That's not your scene?
Not really..its okay for a while.
Then why would you go?
Give it an open minded chance.
Personally, I love the place: sloppy obnoxious drunks and all
I was probably one of them :)
although I do feel it has potential to be much much better.
That’s my point..cheers!
posted by Offshore at 09:44 A.M. EST on Fri Jan 27, 2006 #
On Friday, Feb 10, Bob Frantz gave a little info on his "Eye of Toledo" show about Bass Pro possibly coming to northwest Ohio. He said he has a lot info about the topic, and he didn't get to divulge much because of the McCloskey news that broke in the afternoon. Frantz said he may need a few shows to get through all the Bass Pro info he has. Sounds like a Bass Pro mini-series.
I know WSPD doesn't make MP3 downloads of the show available, but hopefully Bob will post a summary of the Bass Pro info on his blog. I'll mention here a couple points from Bob's show on Friday.
Bob said the Bass Pro president was NOT impressed and/or pleased with Toledo's red carpet treatment at the end of January with the marching band, the billboards, McCloskey giving the prez the kitchen sink, and the media attention. The Bass Pro president didn't want this crap.
He wasn't in northwest Ohio to see Toledo. He was here to see the land out in the Crossroads area of Rossford. He was doing Toledo a favor by taking some time to see the Marina District, but he wanted the Toledo visit to be low-profiled.
Frantz's starter info on Friday confirmed my hunch that northern Wood County is the preferred place in the mind of the Bass Pro president. Bob said Wood County and Bass Pro have had discussions for 14 years, and the discussions have grown more serious over the past 2 1/2 years.
Bob also mentioned that Rossford and Toledo have had a joint economic development zone agreement since 1991. Bob said no one in the Ford administration was aware of this agreement. I wonder if that agreement included the land where Rossford was planning to build the new arena and amphitheater?
Bob said Bass Pro is highly interested in being close to the intersection of I-80 and I-75.
posted by jr at 11:08 P.M. EST on Sat Feb 11, 2006 #
So basically what is happening is Carty is using the media to conjure up feelings and move his agenda instead of lying out facts.
With using the medium to extort Westgate to see his way, he's using the same medium to extort Bass Pro shops to moving to Toledo by using the pomp and circumstance, making them look "selfish" if they chose not to locate downtown.
Ingenius.
Problem is, Carty has mud on his face with both debacles. Time for a new PR guy, I think.
posted by BrianInFlorida at 05:55 A.M. EST on Sun Feb 12, 2006 #
Can I challenge Czarty to a fistfight, winner runs Toledo?
I don't even live there but man he's pissing me off.
posted by anonymouscoward at 06:33 A.M. EST on Sun Feb 12, 2006 #
March 18, 2006 Blade article:
"Sporting goods super-retailer Bass Pro Shops would get back 75 cents of every $1 paid in county sales taxes if it locates in Wood County - or anywhere else in Ohio - under a bill expected to clear the Ohio House next week."
" "This isn't good public policy," said Zach Schiller, senior researcher for Policy Matters Ohio, a nonprofit research group in Cleveland that focuses on the economy from a lower to middle-class perspective."
"The tax incentive would last 10 years or until the Springfield, Mo., retailer recoups its investment in land, buildings, and equipment, whichever is shorter. The language is narrowly tailored so that it could apply only to a minimum $50 million investment of a retail/tourist attraction like a Bass Pro or Cabela's. It also includes a Dec. 1 deadline for the retailer to commit itself in order to take advantage of the tax break."
"The language was added this week to a mid-term budget correction bill, providing one piece of a package that northwest Ohio officials hope will attract an "impact facility" to the area."
posted by jr at 03:22 P.M. EST on Sat Mar 18, 2006 #
Since Ohio has been handing out tax abatements like candy for many years, and the revenue from corporate income taxes have fallen steeply to about 7% (for the last year I had this statistic, which was probably 2003), I'd have to say this is STUPID. After all, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results can only count as STUPID.
... and did I mention immoral? Aren't bribery and privilege (i.e. tax abatements are bribes, and they treat businesses differently besides) bad things which a moral society abhors? Aren't VALUES VOTERS the ones most likely to reject such actions?
I'm talkin' to the wall here. My voice echoes around, and over that lonely sound I can hear off and far away the sniggering of greedy men in board rooms and legislatures.
posted by GuestZero at 06:25 P.M. EST on Sun Mar 19, 2006 #
I don't even fish any more, but I really think it would be cool if they built it here.
posted by Foolkiller at 06:55 P.M. EST on Sun Mar 19, 2006 #
I guess my question, as a commissioner, would be - who's $.75 of every sales tax dollar gets abated? The state's or the county's?
That question aside, ditto GZ's comments (apologies to those who think this is a Rush-ism).
posted by MaggieThurber at 07:28 A.M. EST on Mon Mar 20, 2006 #
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