[snarky comment about "Captain Obvious"]
posted by anonymouscoward at 08:48 A.M. EST on Thu Feb 23, 2006 #
Here's the posting about the ranking released in 2004.
The 2005 rankings from the Milken Institute of the Best Performing Cities:
200 Largest Metros
179 Smallest Metros
About the report from the Blade:
"The report considers a number of factors, including the type of jobs being lost and gained as well as wage and salary growth for one and five-year periods, and the concentration of high-tech jobs. From those measures, the institute calculates an index."
Seems like that "concentration of high-tech jobs" part would skew the results. Columbus has a lot of opportunities for IT people because of the number of companies there that process information, such as banks and insurance companies, but I don't think a bank or an insurance company is considered a high-tech company. What about engineers that support the auto industry? Are they counted in the "concentration of high-tech jobs" category, or are they viewed as part of the manufacturing industry?
Top 10 in the largest metro list:
1. Palm Bay-Melbourne-Titusville FL
2. Cape Coral-Fort Myers FL
3. Naples-Marco Island FL
4. McAllen-Edinburg-Mission, TX
5. Deltona-Daytona Beach-Ormond Beach FL
6. Orlando-Kissimmee, FL
7. Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV Metropolitan Division
8. Fayetteville-Springdale-Rogers AR-MO
9. Fort Lauderdale-Pompano Beach-Deerfield Beach, FL Metropolitan Division
10. Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario CA
Bottom 10:
191. Hickory-Lenoir-Morganton NC
192. Detroit-Livonia-Dearborn, MI Metropolitan Division
193. Grand Rapids-Wyoming MI
194. Cleveland-Elyria-Mentor OH
195. Warren-Farmington Hills-Troy, MI Metropolitan Division
196. Toledo OH
197. Lansing-East Lansing MI
198. Canton-Massillon OH
199. Youngstown-Warren-Boardman OH-PA
200. Flint MI
Florida dominates the top 10, and Michigan and Ohio dominate the bottom 10.
Other Michigan and Ohio cities in the largest metro list:
135. Columbus OH
149. Cincinnati-Middletown OH-KY-IN
156. Ann Arbor MI
160. Akron OH
169. Kalamazoo-Portage MI
175. Holland-Grand Haven MI
187. Dayton OH
Naturally, the top 50 is dominated by cities in southern and western states.
Top 10 in the smallest metro list:
1. Fort Walton Beach-Crestview-Destin FL
2. Bend OR
3. Prescott AZ
4. Panama City-Lynn Haven FL
5. St. George UT
6. Madera CA
7. Kennewick-Richland-Pasco WA
8. Logan UT-ID
9. Yuma AZ
10. Coeur d'Alene ID
Bottom 10:
170. Decatur AL
171. Gadsden AL
172. Michigan City-La Porte IN
173. Jackson MI
174. Elmira NY
175. Niles-Benton Harbor MI
176. Sioux City IA-NE-SD
177. Muncie IN
178. Weirton-Steubenville WV-OH
179. Springfield OH
Other Michigan and Ohio cities in the smallest metro list:
129. Muskegon-Norton Shores MI
138. Parkersburg-Marietta-Vienna, WV-OH
148. Mansfield OH
152. Sandusky OH
153. Saginaw-Saginaw Township North MI
156. Lima OH
162. Monroe MI
164. Battle Creek MI
165. Bay City MI
More from the Blade story:
"John Gibney, a spokesman for Toledo's Regional Growth Partnership, said economic development officials are disappointed and know efforts are necessary to diversify the local economy. Similar comments have been made by local officials in the past but results have gotten worse."
"Lucas County lost 11 percent of its engineering, advertising, and other high-paying professional positions from 1998 to 2003, the Census Bureau found. Such workers were paid an average of $42,300 a year in 2003."
Lucas County was the only major urban county in Ohio to show a loss of these types of jobs, and that occurred mostly under Carty's first regime.
More from today's Blade story:
"Businessmen on the boards of the Toledo Regional Chamber of Commerce and the growth partnership, as well as Mayor Carty Finkbeiner, could not be reached for comment."
What a shock. More:
"Community and business leaders are attempting to start a technology corridor that would include UT, Medical University of Ohio, Bowling Green State University, and Owens Community College. But progress has been slow."
"The Medical University of Ohio has had a 230-acre tech park available for 10 years that was supposed to create up to 6,000 jobs, but it has attracted few businesses. A Dana Corp. technical center, which opened in a new industrial park in 2004 in Maumee, was expected to be a magnet for more high-tech businesses, but little development has occurred."
posted by jr at 10:26 A.M. EST on Thu Feb 23, 2006 #
Ms. Wallace said the Toledo area should not dwell on what it does not have, but instead should emphasize what it does have, such as affordable housing
Toledo....You can afford to be unemployed here!
sigh...that's about the only positive spin I could come up with today on that one.
:-)
posted by psyche777 at 01:05 P.M. EST on Thu Feb 23, 2006 #
No surprise here. I didn't know things were this good in Toledo.
I guess the real question is, What could be done to improve the Toledo metropolitan area in terms of economic growth without damaging the ecology?
The only thing I can come up with is small business loans and start up capital.
posted by madjack at 02:37 P.M. EST on Thu Feb 23, 2006 #
Whoa! Lots of complaints, few positive suggestions.
posted by toledo_lurker at 04:35 P.M. EST on Thu Feb 23, 2006 #
I pointed out a positive....so did Jack, infact Jack's was not only positive but a solution.
:-)
posted by psyche777 at 04:40 P.M. EST on Thu Feb 23, 2006 #
I want to give a shout out to my neighbors in Palm Bay! WHOOOOOO HOOOO!! WAY TO GO!!!
Want to hear something else hilarious? The Mayor of Vero Beach's monthly salary is $500 with a $495 a month car allowance. City Council makes $400 a month with a $395 a month car allowance. Vero is only 30 miles south of Palm Bay/Melbourne.
Someone is getting way overpaid up there.
posted by BrianInFlorida at 04:43 P.M. EST on Thu Feb 23, 2006 #
By the way, it's about the same distance from Toledo to Bowling Green as it is from here in Vero to Melbourne/Palm Bay.
Vero Beach, by the way, is number 64 on that small cities list.
Vero Beach FL
Overall Rank: 64
MSA Population: 124,114
5-yr Job Growth (1999-2004)1 Score: 109.61 Rank: 25
1-yr Job Growth (2003-2004)2 Score: 100.87 Rank: 59
5-yr Wages & Salaries Growth (1998-2003)3 Score: 113.96 Rank: 11
1-yr Wages & Salaries Growth (2002-2003)4 Score: 109.79 Rank: 1
Neighbors Ft Pierce and Pt St Lucie made #12 on the BIG cities list. 20 miles south.
posted by BrianInFlorida at 04:57 P.M. EST on Thu Feb 23, 2006 #
If you take the 300 largest metro areas in the U.S. and rank them by population growth since 1960, Toledo is 295th. No joke. The only ones that have done worse than us are the rare few that have actually lost people (city and suburbs put together) like Buffalo and Pittsburgh.
So when the Toledo Blade goes off on one of their "anti-sprawl" anti-suburban growth rampages, it's completely idiotic because the growth in the suburbs is just barely enough to offset the declines of Toledo city. And it's not a 1 to 1 movement from Toledo to suburbs. A lot of Toledo residents are leaving for the sunbelt, whereas the suburbs are pulling in some former Toledoans but also folks from elsewhere in the country.
posted by paddington at 05:16 P.M. EST on Thu Feb 23, 2006 #
Brian,
Do you have friends/family that live in Palm Bay? Most of my dad's side of the family lives there. That place is growing like crazy, and it doesn't seem to be slowing down any at all. I remember my grandfather telling me that Palm Bay had 20,000 residents when they moved there 20 years ago. They're well over 100,000 residents now.
posted by HeyHey at 07:01 P.M. EST on Thu Feb 23, 2006 #
I go to that John Andretti Go Cart park sometimes on a sunday morning during racing
season "to get my head on".
Hey HeyHey, I remember when Palm Bay was a citrus grove and a chevy dealership right off 95...now they have decorative stone/landscaping welcoming you to the community.
I'm down here on my own, bro. My nearest family is Millbrook Ala and Northwood Ohio. My In-Laws live overseas and I have six friends. Learned a lot growing up in Taleder.
I think the point I want to make is I know there is a big difference with location and such, but logistically and politically, Carty's paltry $11,333.33 a month stipend versus the $500 and a car payment for the same job here says alot about where your tax money is going. Don't forget about your city officials either.
With median home prices for my area at a stable $252,000 versus what I have no idea what Toledo's is, but I know it isn't that high, says a lot about the return on your taxpaying investment, judging from the ratings.
Toledo deserves so much better.
posted by BrianInFlorida at 07:43 P.M. EST on Thu Feb 23, 2006 #
I think we can do better. I think a number of citizens need to get together to encourage change.
I also think it is Ohio in general. A lot of our cities are losing out. Why?
This state is in a bad way.
Anyway,
We need to continue to question our leadership and begin working together as citizens to make a difference. Does anyone agree? What would that look like if we did?
John
posted by jdmsbyrd at 08:05 P.M. EST on Thu Feb 23, 2006 #
The Blade allegedly said: "John Gibney, a spokesman for Toledo's Regional Growth Partnership, said economic development officials are disappointed and know efforts are necessary to diversify the local economy. Similar comments have been made by local officials in the past but results have gotten worse."
(Emphasis mine.)
Pouring tax abatements upon each existing (or prospective) huge retailer (or manufacturer) is not the way to arrange economic diversity. Toledo-based politicians continue to give away the farm, taxation-wise, while pointedly ignoring the small businesses that are in reality a full cylinder in America's 2-cylinder corporate economic engine.
I don't approve of any tax abatements whatsoever. But if they have to be given out, they should be handed to the small businesses. Large businesses like Jeep and Wal*Mart don't need tax breaks, considering they can take full advantage of economies of scale over the small businesses, and as well they are well known for downsizing for their cost-cutting measures. Large businesses like GM are well able to capitalize their own flight, thank you, which is in marked contrast to the 100-man business who tends to be much more stuck.
The Blade allegedly said: "Community and business leaders are attempting to start a technology corridor that would include UT, Medical University of Ohio, Bowling Green State University, and Owens Community College. But progress has been slow."
Progress has been "slow" since this is not an area that understands (1) initial investment, (2) cultivation of the investment, and then (3) managed profiting. On top of those failures, Toledoan businesses are rife with a terrible complacency much nourished with tax abatements and other corporate welfare. Put simply, unless the bribe is large enough, this "technology corridor" won't happen. My underlying theory is that Toledo is so fiscally exhausted that it cannot produce these levels of bribes anymore.
toledo_lurker opined: "Whoa! Lots of complaints, few positive suggestions."
Whoa, yourself. Anyone who dares suggest that we stop tax abatements -- or even swing them away from the large companies -- runs into the HappyTalk{tm} problem around here (Toledo in general, and ToledoTalk in a further small way). Offering a Jeep-scale abatement instead across a range of small businesses can only be derided as a negative suggestion. Big tax abatements to big companies are always treated as "positive suggestions" in the public mind. Even the marked absence of larger businesses is not a clue to the public that tax abatements ultimately don't work anywhere close to their intentions; they delay the inevitable flight of business, and just make it more painful when they do.
posted by GuestZero at 08:46 P.M. EST on Thu Feb 23, 2006 #
The voting populace in generally suffers from apathy, but in Toledo you can barely tell the difference between the votes and the residents at the cemetery. People who are extremely qualified to hold office wouldn't have the position if it was given to them, and the folks that are in office now don't belong there, for the most part.
The first thing I'd do is cut back as much as possible on franchised business and put money into growing small business and proprietorships. The reasoning here is that proprietorships will increase the velocity of money and employ local people.
Give small business expansion and, more importantly, startup loans. A thriving business that we would like to have in Toledo won't relocate here. New businesses will have to be started.
Increase the public transportation system, and fix the TPS. Both of these are major challenges, but I believe that with the right leadership the TPS could be completely fixed in ten years time. That's not easy, but possible.
While Lucas county controls the zoning, I've never seen them do anything but cave in to whatever harebrained project some idiot wants to build. Here's a clue: Stop building stuff. The downtown area and vicinity will never develop while people can build in the outlying areas, where there's less crime, more green space, no boom cars driving around at three AM.
Anyone else?
posted by madjack at 08:57 P.M. EST on Thu Feb 23, 2006 #
jdmsbyrd mused: "I think we can do better. I think a number of citizens need to get together to encourage change."
We do a portion of that on this board. It's not everything we should be doing, but it's a good concurrency.
jdmsbyrd mused: "I also think it is Ohio in general. A lot of our cities are losing out. Why?"
Because people and businesses are moving away, as they are perfectly free to do.
But that's not all. The government structures that remain are largely unwilling to do the thing which must happen eventually: DOWN-SIZING. With people and businesses leaving in such numbers, it should be predictable that there is a cultural malaise that leads almost directly to a lack of proper political oversight. The people left behind tend to be poorer, hence more likely to be victimized by government officials who want to spend, even wanting to spend increasing amounts of public funds and credit.
jdmsbyrd mused: "This state is in a bad way."
Well, the onus is upon each Ohioan to stop this bad way from infecting his own life. Allowing the government to operate like the Taft-Petro-Montgomery clan is a great way to socialize such a disease. Downsizing the government is really the only thing which will work, and it's doubly incumbent upon us to do it, since the Ohio government must collapse eventually under the weight of mismanagement and a lack of support from economic activity. Since we must downsize it eventually, why not now, when it's least painful?
jdmsbyrd mused: "We need to continue to question our leadership and begin working together as citizens to make a difference. Does anyone agree? What would that look like if we did?"
Well, any realistic Ohio government structure under my reasoning can only be a lot smaller. Instead of armies of consultants allegedly exploring "economic development", Ohio's public employees should largely be enforcement officers of some kind ... either in direct law enforcement, or indirectly through tax collectors and auditors. There won't be any need to conduct "fact-finding" missions across the world by legistlators and other high elected officials, since no Ohio taxes or assets can be collected in those locations.
Direct public involvement is a very good wind in the sails of government. If the corrupt officials try to go another way, it would at least take a great deal of tacking against this wind, which is exhausting and hopefully will cause such officials to waste their energies until election time appears again.
posted by GuestZero at 09:07 P.M. EST on Thu Feb 23, 2006 #
If Toledo ever wants to get business back, it needs to get the regulations off the back of businesses. It also needs to eliminate the quarter percent income tax. The reason businesses want to leave is they can get personal service in the suburbs. Don't be fooled by people that say bigger is better. Smaller is better because you get better service. Toledo has too much red tape that is too suffocating. Get rid of the red tape lower the taxes and you will see the tide turn.
posted by chrismyers at 09:29 P.M. EST on Thu Feb 23, 2006 #
Toledo is at an inherent disadvantage that is signigicant.....our weather SUCKS! How many people leave Toledo every year to move to Florida, Georgia, Arizona, etc.? I think this is a factor that a lot of people downplay as a factor in our declining local economy. The weather isn't the biggest reason that we're failing though. It may only make up 10% of the failures we see.
The biggest reason is that there is so much waste in government. I once looked at how much money Toledo (and about 20 other cities) spends annually per resident. IIRC, Toledo spend about $1400/resident/year. In other words we're charging each individual that much to live here in a year. Compare that to growing cities and you'll find they spend less than $1000/year/resident. If we cut local government in half (and many cities operate on this) then we wouldn't have to worry about tax abatements to large companies anymore and small companies would be on eaqual footing as their bigger counterparts.
I am of the opinion that government cannot create consistent economic investment over a period of time; government can only create an environment conducive to investment. More ecnonomic development will occur if the government is hands-off than will occur when government has its hands in everything.
posted by HeyHey at 09:33 P.M. EST on Thu Feb 23, 2006 #
I think a great place to start cutting dollars would be the high salaries given out to some of these people. Look at what the President of UT makes (I won't say earns), in addition to all the perks; meanwhile, tuition keeps going higher and higher, probably to pay his salary. I don't know how much money most of these higher ups make, but I'd bet it's way more than it needs to be. Ditto the top people in big industry; Daimler, GM, all of them. I'm talking high management, the people who never actually go INTO the plants.
posted by starling02 at 09:59 P.M. EST on Thu Feb 23, 2006 #
I think the problem is that Toledo is so obsessed with manufacturing. Instead of thinking forward, we're still stuck in the same place. Starling, Tuition rates increase because of a decrease in state funding. Ohio State gets it all anymore (plus the republican government insists that private education is better, which it isn't).
posted by junta330 at 02:34 A.M. EST on Fri Feb 24, 2006 #
Tuition rates increase because of a decrease in state funding.
Not to mention that several weeks after the approval of an increase, they usually approve a massive pay increase for the senior administration of the college.
posted by anonymouscoward at 04:46 A.M. EST on Fri Feb 24, 2006 #
Questions to consider concerning UT: How much of a college education does tuition cover, all, some, what percentage?
How much of the president’s “perks” are paid for by the separate UT Foundation?
Does the president’s the role as fund raiser yield a substantial return on the investment?
posted by Offshore at 08:41 A.M. EST on Fri Feb 24, 2006 #
http://www.toledofreepress.com/?id=2560
Here's an article that points out some good news.
:-)
posted by psyche777 at 09:00 A.M. EST on Fri Feb 24, 2006 #
I am of the opinion that government cannot create consistent economic investment over a period of time; government can only create an environment conducive to investment. More ecnonomic development will occur if the government is hands-off than will occur when government has its hands in everything.
Does this mean that government bulldozers should smooth the path for private entrepreneurs so that they can thereby step in and begin to make their profits, often tax-abated?
Where in the Constitution is the 'government' mandated to use tax dollars and manpower to enable private businesses?
To me it looks like entrepreneurs cozy up to politicians so that the government does the 'dirty work' for them by clearing the path to success.
Our government [Federal and local] ought not to be in that 'business.'
posted by toledo_lurker at 10:23 A.M. EST on Fri Feb 24, 2006 #
Look at what the President of UT makes (I won't say earns), in addition to all the perks; meanwhile, tuition keeps going higher and higher, probably to pay his salary.
Do you realize that President Johnson recently gave $100,000 (close to a year's salary) to UT's capital campaign?
I think you're barking up the wrong tree here.
posted by photodan at 10:25 P.M. EST on Fri Feb 24, 2006 #
Not to mention that several weeks after the approval of an increase, they usually approve a massive pay increase for the senior administration of the college.
Can you back this statement up with some kind of proof?
posted by photodan at 10:29 P.M. EST on Fri Feb 24, 2006 #
From a March 4, 2004 posting that referenced a Blade column by Homer Brickey:
"Toledo, a hotbed of entrepreneurship? Well, perhaps that's overstating it a bit. But a pretty good case could be made that Toledo is at least entrepreneur-friendly."
"One important piece of evidence is Entrepreneur magazine's ranking of Toledo as the sixth best in its listing of "best cities for entrepreneurs" among midsized Midwest cities for 2003. That ranking puts Toledo ahead of cities like Lexington, Ky., Ann Arbor, and Akron and Dayton. In front of Toledo are Madison, Wis.; Omaha; Appleton/Oshkosh, Wis., Des Moines; and Fort Wayne, Ind. Overall, Toledo ranked 40th out of 84 midsized cities in the survey."
"Toledo did very well, based on a blend of entrepreneurial activity (start-ups over a five-year period), small-business growth, job growth in the last three years, and risk (as judged by failure rates)."
posted by jr at 12:53 A.M. EST on Sat Mar 04, 2006 #
Can you back this statement up with some kind of proof?
posted by photodan at 10:29 P.M. EST on Fri Feb 24, 2006
Oh yes I can, Danny-boy.
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?Date=20040321&Category=NEWS21&ArtNo=403210350&SectionCat=&Template=printart
In August, the board of trustees, happy with Dr. Adams' performance, approved a $25,500 increase in perks for her.
Her salary remained unchanged at $189,280, about $46,000 above the state average for community college presidents, according to the Ohio Association of Community Colleges.
Three other top administrators received raises ranging from 3.8 percent to 7.4 percent and additional perks.
And more recent info:
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051115/NEWS21/511150389
At Bowling Green State University, President Sidney Ribeau is paid $286,443. He turned down a raise last December that would have increased that amount. The university also provides him with a home and car.
Similarly at UT, President Dan Johnson has a home and car as part of his perks. His salary jumped this year to $254,616 from $243,600, an increase that was provided to him as a result of two years of overall faculty raises on campus, with one of those years retroactive.
At the two-year Owens Community College, the salary for President Christa Adams also jumped this year, putting her over the $200,000 mark. Her base salary is $204,725, up from $196,851.
In March 2004, Dr. Adams was making $190k plus perks. She just topped $204k.
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20030813/NEWS21/108130090
Yeah, in August 2003 they got a massive pay increase, following a tuition increase in April 2003.
Administrative salary has just gone up again, and guess what? Students at Owens are being told there'll be another maximum limit tuition increase AGAIN in time for summer or fall.
So, Dan, I think this nice tall glass of STFU juice is yours. Why don't you get your photo-butt over to https://www.owens.edu/trustees/minutes.html
and take a look for yourself... assuming that they are actually giving you all the info there, because I've personally witnessed the members of the media getting a much thicker packet than the ordinary members of the public do, and do some research on who got what increase or perk when, when the tuition increases were, and compare that with, say, the inflation rate?
Oh, and while the presidents of UT and BGSU give their money away, I don't hear a damn thing about Dr. Adams or anyone else at Owens giving up significant amounts of their salary (like half, good job Dr. Johnson) to anything useful.
The last time I did any in-depth checking, by the way, there were plans to re-do or build a new Ivory Tower, I mean Administration Hall. At the same time, they can't be bothered to figure out how to MOVE CLASSES OUT OF THE GODDAMN TRAILERS WHICH ARE RIGHT NEXT TO THE RAILROAD TRACKS.
And I won't even mention the complete shit state of their student distance learning/email system... oh wait I just did... and it's a complete piece of shit that has a lot of students absolutely screaming, not to mention instructors tearing their hair out, because assignments and emails are being lost all the time.
The administration there is getting more money while the students and even the faculty are getting DICKED.
posted by anonymouscoward at 08:28 A.M. EST on Sat Mar 04, 2006 #
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