I did come across this publication recently that recommended playing musical chairs with the anchor stores. Check it out, it may answer some questions.
http://uac.utoledo.edu/Publications/Erie-Street-Market.pdf
posted by lloyd at 10:00 A.M. EST on Mon Mar 06, 2006 #
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060306/NEWS16/603060344
First reaction? This is a slap in the face and totally contradictory to what Carty stated in his Toledo Free Press article about encouraging and helping small businesses.
posted by psyche777 at 10:04 A.M. EST on Mon Mar 06, 2006 #
It doesn't seem like the renovations are intended to follow recommendations of the study I just listed...
posted by lloyd at 10:15 A.M. EST on Mon Mar 06, 2006 #
I'd be concerned about the city evicting small businesses, but from what I saw a few months ago, there are virtually no businesses left in the Erie Street Market. The Libbey Glass Outlet was busy, but the rest of that place is depressing as it stands.
posted by thenick at 10:33 A.M. EST on Mon Mar 06, 2006 #
Maybe the small business that are going to be eliminated from the Westgate Shopping Center when Costco comes to town can relocate to the Erie Street Market. Carty can make the ESM part of his urban village concept.
posted by KraZyKat at 10:45 A.M. EST on Mon Mar 06, 2006 #
Wow, does that also include (evictions) Libbey Glass and the Antique Mall????
posted by starling02 at 11:20 A.M. EST on Mon Mar 06, 2006 #
No starling, from the Toledo Blade article:
All vendors in the market bay of Toledo's Erie Street Market were told yesterday that they have two weeks to move out to make room for a major renovation project.
The Libbey Glass Factory Outlet, Superior Antiques Mall, and the Civic Center Promenade will not be affected by the renovation project, which is anticipated to end before May 27, when the market will unveil its new look.
posted by psyche777 at 11:31 A.M. EST on Mon Mar 06, 2006 #
Why is this notice surprising or even angering?
Firstly, the Eerie Streetperson Market is just a showpiece for a government-managed retail operation in a dying Rusty City. Being an instrument of PR, it's not a real enterprise, so why do we even care about tenant-landlord relations there? The tenants largely aren't real retailers. Real retailers have customers, and if they fail, they bankrupt and are evicted; their stuff gets bought up at pennies on the dollar and are put to better use by real retailers, and the landlord leases out the space to the same. This just isn't happening in the ESM. When losers are replaced, they are just replaced with other losers.
In short, there are plenty of business losers (I call them "business hobbyists") in Toledo, and they can populate the plethora of small empty shops around Toledo without filling up pricey space in the ESM.
Secondly, the ESM was Carty's wet dream when he was last mayor, so it was simply his play toy. Carty is mayor again (note: thanks, Toledo, you idiots!), hence it was only a matter of time before he grabbed his play toy again. I'm sure he has some grand plan that Toledoans will ultimately have to pay for, since his immature and elitist ideas are failures.
The ESM is a joke since it is not supported by market forces. It is supported by government forces, and as I've said in many other ways, the government has no business running a business.
posted by GuestZero at 11:43 A.M. EST on Mon Mar 06, 2006 #
This really irks me. It isn’t so much that the city is giving these businesses too short of a time to relocate, That by it self is just simply rude. On the other hand, the city government has all kinds of rules and regulations regarding the relationships between landlords and tenants. Those same regulations often times require a landlord the go through a costly legal battle to evict a tenant who isn’t paying any rent whatsoever. That battle can take a year or more, all the while the deadbeat tenant is living rent-free. Now why can the city evict a rent-paying tenant by merely giving a two-week notice when your run of the mill landlord has to tolerate a deadbeat for a year?
Remember the golden rule, “he who has the gold, makes the rules”.
And the McCloskey rule, “The people who make the rules will be more than happy to make the rules in your favor, as long as you are willing to part with some gold”.
posted by mike2004 at 12:14 P.M. EST on Mon Mar 06, 2006 #
The Erie Street Market peaked in 2001. In the main bay, the place was packed with businesses. Every little end and corner spot was taken. If you wanted to open a small stand in the ESM at that time, you couldn't. On Saturdays, the place bustled, even in the winter time when the farmer's market wasn't open. It was a fun place to visit.
I think the Frogtown bay opened around 2002 or 2003 to provide existing businesses more room to expand and to attract new businesses. But the place overall began a noticable decline by late 2002 or early 2003. It didn't look anything like what it was a year or two ealier. It got depressing in 2004. I've rarely visisted the market over the past two years.
I don't know if it was true, but I thought I heard that the city jacked up the lease rates on the Erie Street Market businesses in 2001 or 2002 when it was still doing well.
Past Toledo Talk topics about the Erie Street Market.
1. - August 18, 2003 - Erie Street Market to be upgraded - "Even in tight money times, there's still $80,000 lying around to pay a consultant to determine how to improve the Erie Street Market. A couple of the ideas are good. "The city is looking at bringing in new vendors, improving the food bay and parking, and enclosing the outdoor stalls so farmers can sell their goods year-round." "
Enclosing the outdoor stalls obviously never happened.
2. - From Mayor Ford's February 2004 state of the city speech.
"One of the most common questions that I hear is: what are you doing for revitalization? There are challenges still before us. Southwyck, Westgate, Promenade Park, the Steam Plant and The Erie Street Market."
"I know there is a lot of concern about the Erie Street Market. Past administrations ignored expert advice on how to design and operate a successful market. As a result the market has always struggled. A few years ago, the market was nearly full of merchants. Unfortunately many of those merchants were not paying their rents. The City cannot and should not subsidize merchant rents. That is an irresponsible use of your tax dollars. We've gone back to the experts to propose options for the market. By April they will release their recommendations. At that time, we as a community will have some tough decisions to make, as it could cost millions."
3. - April 12, 2004 - Save the Erie St. Market by wasting money - "Well, here we go again. This is disgusting. Toledo has paid $80,000 to a consultant for eight months of work that culminates in a report that suggests the way to save the Market is to rearrange the businesses within the current building. Beautiful. I would have thought stupidity like this would be inexpensive. I tell ya, there are some gems in this story."
Here are some excerpts from that April 2004 story:
"[Realtor David] Long said the draft recommendations call for moving the food market to the Market Street end of the building, and moving the Libbey store into one of the other bays. It was not clear how the Antiques Mall and Frog Town Square would be affected."
"The redesign and relocation costs will run into the millions of dollars - money the cash-strapped city does not have in its capital improvements budget. The city's proposed capital budget for 2004 allocates $250,000 for the market."
"The Erie Street Market opened in the former Civic Auditorium in May, 1997, after the city allocated $2.7 million in federal Housing and Urban Development funds and $1.8 million in city funds to restore the deteriorating structure."
"... the problems to be addressed in the food market include lighting, the perceived walking distance between the food bay and the farmers market stalls, parking, and the stairs that must be climbed to enter the food market."
"[Mr. Long] said the expense would be paid for at least partially by higher rents, which would be justified by the increased public patronage of the reorganized market."
4. - November 7, 2004 - Messina's Leaving Erie Street Market - "Louis Messina is closing his Italian Deli at the Erie Street Market, under the cloud of a court battle, unpaid rent, and more. Messina says the City of Toledo hasn't provided proper utilities and security for the Erie Street Market. He says his business and other vendors have suffered as a result of the city's lack of support. Messina's involved in his own dispute with the market. He'll be in court next week facing eviction. The city tells NBC 24 that Messina hasn't paid his rent in months."
Messina's was one of the main anchors of the ESM.
5. - February 15, 2005 - Trying to save the market - "The former Frogtown Square area at the Erie Street Market is being converted into the Civic Center Promenade, that'll be used for special events and other happenings. Mayor Ford says local artwork and historical photos of Toledo will be used to give the space a nostalgic look." (So many businesses have left the original Erie Street Market that the Frogtown Square businesses were moved into the old ESM, leaving a big empty in the Frogtown part.) "Mayor Ford also says the market can't be forever supported by city tax dollars, and at some point if the market continues to struggle, it needs to be turned over to private hands."
It seems more and more people are living downtown, and a properly managed ESM could work. The ESM of 2001 may have been a little ahead of its time.
6. - June 24, 2005 - $90,000 loan paves the way for wine, meat outlets - "Check out today's Blade about the City forking over almost $100k to open two shops in the Erie Street Market. The ESM sinkhole keeps sucking up city funds without any apparent oversight. But that doesn't keep our officials from pouring more money into what is now a flea market. The Erie Street Market seems to be the local equivalent of the state's workers' compensation giveaway."
Here's a comment from March 17, 2004 that made reference to a posting at the now defunct but always entertaining if not believable The Mental Block website, which I think was Ray Kest's baby:
"In a big hush-hush deal, the city offered the Erie Street Market to the Toledo School for the Arts last week. Word of the offer leaked out to some of the remaining market vendors, who are outraged that the city would go behind their backs and make a deal to put them out on the street. Several are looking to get out of the market. It looks like Portside all over again."
From today's Blade story:
"... the vendors were given notices shortly before the market's closing last night. They will have to vacate their spaces and storage rooms by the close of business on March 20 ..."
The city gave the vendors two weeks notice. How magnanimous of the city. ESM has been on a decline for nearly four years. What's the hurry now?
"All the vendors that were given notices will have to submit business plans that will be reviewed by the CitiFest committee, and all rent structures will have to be renegotiated, said Mr. Boyer."
Sounds similar to what happened at Westgate with the current tennants there in regards to the new Westgate.
posted by jr at 12:26 P.M. EST on Mon Mar 06, 2006 #
I agree Jr, that's pretty much my take on this as well, when I blogged about this in the morning I stated:
Thanks for your support in having a store here but we think we can do better now so...shooo...and if we decide you can stay? You'll pay more...
If this is how things are made easier for small businesses in Toledo? Someone might need to rethink what the word "easier" means.
Considering Carty's recent statement about making it easier for small businesses, this is very contradictory. I find it hard to believe that there was no way they could have made other arrangements or at least a more reasonable time period to vacate.
posted by psyche777 at 12:50 P.M. EST on Mon Mar 06, 2006 #
Speculative Prediction: Carty is prepping a new look for the ESM to prepare to have it on its own levy at most by Nov 2007. The levy might even hit as early as Nov 2006, but that's really rushing the scam. Carty's got a good 2 years to load up Toledoans with levies to support all the elite and non-viable crapola that he obviously likes so much.
posted by GuestZero at 03:10 A.M. EST on Tue Mar 07, 2006 #
Not to worry. 'Carty gets Results.'
posted by aldringham at 09:57 A.M. EST on Tue Mar 07, 2006 #
If bay one of the Erie Street Market was privately owned like it should be, and this private owner was kicking out the vendors in two weeks and spending his or her own money to renovate the bay and then charging higher lease rates for new tennants, what would the reaction be of Carty, city council, and the county commissioners?
Government gets upset when a private owner like Holland of Westgate wants to redevelop her own property, but when government wants to redevelop its property with taxpayer money, and it does so with a more violent approach toward its renters, well, that's okay.
From the March 6 Blade article:
"Mayor Carty Finkbeiner did not return calls."
From the March 7 Blade article:
"The mayor's office did not respond to requests for information about city expenditures on the market."
"Mr. Finkbeiner did not return phone calls seeking comment."
Do you Carlton would be so silent if a private owner was doing all of this?
posted by jr at 12:39 P.M. EST on Tue Mar 07, 2006 #
Bay 4 not Bay 1, I guess. Whatever the bay is that contains the vendors when ESM first opened several years ago.
More from the March 7 Blade article:
"The city of Toledo-owned Erie Street Market lost $41,361 last year."
"The mayor has committed up to $300,000 to subsidize rents for the first new year of operation."
"[Larry Boyer, chairman of CitiFest's Erie Street Market committee] said the Libbey Glass Factory Outlet, Antiques Mall, and Civic Center Promenade are successful. But he said only eight to 10 vendors remain in the fourth bay, and of those as few as two are current on their rent."
CitiFest has proposed to spend:
$90,000 on improvements to the fresh meats, deli, seafood, produce, and flowers area.
$395,000 for a new building facade and lighting in the market, and to enclose one wing and raze another wing of the adjacent Toledo Farmers Market.
$45,000 for a cooking demonstration kitchen.
$60,000 for a computer network upgrade and audio-visual components for the Civic Center Promenade.
$58,000 to upgrade the ceiling, lighting, and stage in Bay 4.
"Councilman Michael Ashford, whose district includes the market, said he was as surprised as the merchants. "We've never received a plan from the administration as to what was going on," Mr. Ashford said. He said the short notice to vacate shows a lack of consideration. "That is their livelihood. They should have got way more notice than that," Mr. Ashford said."
It's interesting that a city councilman doesn't even know what Carty is doing.
Point 15 from Carty's list of 34 campaign promises:
"15. Will actively and personally work to restore the Erie Street Market as a centerpiece of downtown revitalization."
Point 6:
"6. Nurture small-business development, and establish a 25-person business advisory council, consisting of our best and brightest small-business leaders, to advise the administration on how it can help business develop in our region and eliminate government obstacles. This advisory council will review council legislation passed during the last 25 years, and we will rescind any laws that have hampered job creation."
posted by jr at 12:59 P.M. EST on Tue Mar 07, 2006 #
Article quote: "The city of Toledo-owned Erie Street Market lost $41,361 last year, but operators still hope a fresh start for the nine-year-old market eventually will make it profitable."
How many fresh starts need to happen before the people of Toledo recognize something is a failed idea? If your business hasn't made money by the 9th year, you're just a welfare case. The IRS or state generally doesn't recognize your business as valid if it loses money for too many years in a row.
Article quote: "$630,500 federal grant"
Welfare from the federal government.
Article quote: "Larry Boyer, chairman of CitiFest's Erie Street Market committee, said yesterday he is hopeful that a new emphasis [...] would stanch the city's losses at the market."
How nice that he's "hopeful". I'm "angry". I'm angry that he's "hopeful" in playing with our money.
Article quote: "He said the mayor has committed up to $300,000 to subsidize rents for the first new year of operation."
I KNEW IT! Toledo's sap taxpayers are going to be paying directly.
Article quote: "It was not clear who made up the financial loss [of an operating deficit of $41,361 for 2005]."
If it's "not clear", then it's perfectly clear that Toledo's sucker taxpayers covered it.
Article quote: "Mr. Finkbeiner did not return phone calls seeking comment."
Any other time, he'd be bursting to tell you about his great ideas. Of course, Carty may not be talking to the Blade on principle (yeah, I know, a rarity for him), so we'll have to see what the TFP holds about all this.
psyche777 said: "Considering Carty's recent statement about making it easier for small businesses, this is very contradictory."
You voted for him, Toledo! Now he has 4 more years to drain Toledo's coffers for his stunningly stupid ideas. If he isn't doing something absolutely insane, he's doing something unabashedly elitist.
posted by GuestZero at 01:18 P.M. EST on Tue Mar 07, 2006 #
What about the city's $4 million deficit? When the 2009 mayoral election rolls around, we'll be wishing for only a $4 million deficit. Isn't the city still paying off on a couple of Carty's projects from his first regime?
Higher taxes some day for Toledoans? Well, maybe not. Check out point 9 from Carty's campaign promises:
"9. Encourage and promote a regional government to include, city, county and suburban governments all under one roof, in as many ways as possible."
In other words, get the rest of the county to pay for Toledo's financial screw ups.
Someone said he didn't want the Erie Street Market to become the Southwyck of dowtown Toledo. That's an interesting comment, considering that the ESM is government managed, and it appears city government wants to do the same for Southwyck. With the government's success with the ESM, we can only look forward to wonderful things with the new Southwyck.
How about getting the Cherry St/MLK bridge fully operational for more than a few months. That four-plus year construction disaster does not encourage people to go downtown.
posted by jr at 02:09 P.M. EST on Tue Mar 07, 2006 #
"What about the city's $4 million deficit? When the 2009 mayoral election rolls around, we'll be wishing for only a $4 million deficit. Isn't the city still paying off on a couple of Carty's projects from his first regime?"
Not to worry jr,
There is always an "announced" deficit when the City has labor contracts to negotiate, which miraculously disappears right after the contracts are signed; it has been that way for decades ;-)
It is the same way with the Bd. of Ed.
They always "find" some unexpected money or an unexplained “accounting error,” once the peons have been given the short shrift yet again...
posted by Hooda_Thunkit at 11:01 A.M. EST on Wed Mar 08, 2006 #
Well, Hooda, we should call them on that bluff:
"Oh, you're $4 million short? Well, go ahead and perform some serious cuts in the city administration."
posted by GuestZero at 01:22 P.M. EST on Wed Mar 08, 2006 #
GuestZero,
"Oh, you're $4 million short? Well, go ahead and perform some serious cuts in the city administration."
Amen!
;-)
posted by Hooda_Thunkit at 10:56 P.M. EST on Wed Mar 08, 2006 #
March 13 Blade story about the Findlay Market in Cincinnati's Over-the-Rhine neighborhood.
"Located in one of Cincinnati's oldest and poorest neighborhoods, Findlay Market has been open for business continuously since 1855."
"Scallops, tuna steak, Chilean sea bass, rainbow trout, Florida blue gill, and organic Irish salmon are among the items available at Lukens' Poultry, Fish, and Seafood counter at the center of the market. And that's just the seafood part."
Bluegill, now you're talking. One of my best fish meals was fried bluegill from the 17th Street Bar and Grill in Murphysboro, Il.
More about Cincy's Findlay market:
"The neighborhood encroaches on all four sides. People congregate on nearby corners. Brick townhouses dating to the 19th century - a new urbanist's dream - line the streets surrounding the market."
"The Findlay Market still relies heavily on the city government, which has made the market one of its top economic development priorities. The city government has budgeted a subsidy of $632,000 this year from its Community Development Block Grant to keep the market afloat."
"In 2002 and 2003, the city spent $7 million to rebuild the market, replacing everything except the historic iron framework, expanding the stalls, adding roofs and roll-down doors for the outdoor stands, and building in new electrical fixtures, plumbing, and refrigeration."
I wonder if the Blade writer for this market story also visited the Bass Pro in Cincinnati for another story?
posted by jr at 12:30 P.M. EST on Mon Mar 13, 2006 #
The Blade is continuing to support the idea that government can succeed in "economic development". They've taken this overly Socialist approach to a dying economy and are now applying it to the Erie Street Market.
I firmly believe that Toledo is suffering from capital flight or "perching". There's more than enough wealth in Toledo to reform it prosperously, or at least to give it a good chance of attaining a lower but solid level of prosperity. But wealth has decided to play in the stock and housing markets, not invest in Toledo-based work. What lesser wealth remained after that flight, is simply not investing in Toledo. The pittance that remains is applied locally, but has given us the terrible results that we can see from street to street across the city. It's not enough, and it's largely being governed by nitwits.
Yet government cannot step in and allocate public funds to make up for this admittedly enormous hole in Toledo's investment scheme. Toledo's government is twice as much disqualified from such a thing in the first place, since it is dominated by the union (or "entitlement") mentality. These people are not principled and disciplined investors. They are primarily drunkards, thugs and assorted losers who were unable to support themselves in the private sector.
posted by GuestZero at 04:27 P.M. EST on Mon Mar 13, 2006 #
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