We all have good days and bad. Sometimes a persons' passion for a topic is misunderstood. There are times when it seems that Bob and Denny are overly 'enthusiastic' about a certain subject, but I'm sure folks have said the same about me. They are doing their job - no more no less as far as I can see.
posted by DoknowDocare at 07:07 P.M. EST on Mon Aug 01, 2005 #
I think that you may be confusing "style" (or the lack thereof) with substance. If you can't get past the style, then WSPD radio is NOT for you.
Luckily, there are literally HUNDREDS of other stations you may find less objectional, so why not shop around?
To answer your last question, No, you are not alone, I know of at least two others with the same complaint. Then, there are the other untold hundreds/thousands of listeners that make WSPD's rate the envy of other (talk radio) stations.
They must be doing something RIGHT...
posted by Hooda_Thunkit at 07:12 P.M. EST on Mon Aug 01, 2005 #
I don't listen to Bob Frantz anymore, I used to enjoy his show but it got to the point where the bias got silly. I still listen to Denny from time to time, but when he gets on his Catholic venting sprees I change stations. Sometimes he has some really good interviews, Senator Marc Dann as just one example. So on the good days I listen on the others? Classic Rock is a fine substitute.
posted by psyche777 at 07:17 P.M. EST on Mon Aug 01, 2005 #
lmao that was funny HT
:-)
posted by psyche777 at 07:18 P.M. EST on Mon Aug 01, 2005 #
I miss Scott Sloan and Mark Standriff (spelling, didn't listen the second much though)
I miss Scott Sloan and Mark Standriff (spelling, didn't listen the second much though). Mentioned recently, I guess news radio is like television, the good ones move to bigger markets. Although, one could say that Denny seems to be pretty successful since he fills in for Glenn Beck regularly.
I'm surprised there isn't a liberal talk station in Toledo, especially with the addition of conservative oriented 1560. That seems to be 2-0 which is odd in a democratic town. I was driving through Cleveland the other day and their were several liberal stations there, including Air America. That seems to be 2-0 which is odd in a democratic town. I was driving through Cleveland the other day and their were several liberal stations there, including Air America.
posted by lloyd at 08:07 P.M. EST on Mon Aug 01, 2005 #
Sorry for the sentance repeat, looks like you caught me doing a cut/paste for spell check ;-)
posted by lloyd at 08:11 P.M. EST on Mon Aug 01, 2005 #
I often wondered that too lloyd but it seems most liberals in this area seem to prefer music rather than talk radio.
:-)
posted by psyche777 at 08:23 P.M. EST on Mon Aug 01, 2005 #
I almost always come to the same conclusions as Bob and Denny, but I think their ability to make compelling arguments for those conclusions is sorely lacking. They're passionate, they understand it and they believe it. But if I were sitting on the fence they would never sell me on their ideas. In fact they might push me the other way. The same for Sean Hannity. Glen Beck is even worse, IMO.
Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter, on the other hand, are world class. Their abiltiy to put things in perspective and bring home a point is second to none. I wish we had some of their caliber here - even a 10th of it.
posted by babbleman at 08:34 P.M. EST on Mon Aug 01, 2005 #
I love most they do and say.
posted by fequalsma73 at 01:29 A.M. EST on Tue Aug 02, 2005 #
I REALLY miss Scott Sloan. I thought he was the best the town ever offered. Who was the sportscaster who shared an hour with him before he did his show? Seems his first name was Scott, too. They called it "The Id & Super-Ego Hour," or something like that. They were FANTASTIC together, IMO. Anyone remember "March Madmen"? Sheer brilliance, and funny as hell.
posted by Foolkiller at 01:29 A.M. EST on Tue Aug 02, 2005 #
After reading these posts about the radio station, and looking back at some other posts from the "regulars," I'm not surprised about the comments. While trying not to generalize too much, it's indicative of general perspective. Those with a more liberal perspective seem to not like Bob and Denny - those with a more conservative perspective do.
When Bob first got here, I didn't like his show...really missed Mark Standriff. I never listened to Denny on his former station, but really liked him when he switched to WSPD.
However, I'm concerned that Bob doesn't seem to have the depth of knowledge of some of his topics. I remember him saying once...I know about this, this and this and I've formed an opinion, but I don't have all the facts...I'm looking for my callers to help educate me.
Guess I always thought that you gather all the facts before you form an opinion. Sometimes, too, I think he brings two sides to the mike and then doesn't always follow up on the facts of what both sides present - he just takes each of them at their word. However, I do believe he's getting better and, as he's in Toledo for a longer period of time, he's getting a better understanding of the players and history.
I also agree psyche777 about some of the topics. I don't mind Denny's Catholic faith so much as I just can't listen to the priest abuse rants/guests/etc...
But then I remember that they're talk show hosts, not reporters...bound by a different standard and listened to because they have opinions.
And I do miss Scott Sloan - every now and then when I'm in Cinci, I get to hear him....
posted by intrepid at 05:58 A.M. EST on Tue Aug 02, 2005 #
I don't listen to Bob Frantz usually. I listen to Denny Schaffer on occasion, and generally find him to be an insufferable ass.
Schaffer has a HUGE axe to grind with the Roman Catholic Church. He is in the habit saying that he is a Catholic know-it-all, and then saying that Catholicism is comfortably in his past, and then saying that Catholicism is tantamount to communion with the Devil.
Schaffer rightly complains that the Toledo Blade is a slanted rag. However, Schaffer is incapable of seeing the slant in his own propaganda broadcasts.
Here's one final thought: I am likely the most conservative writer on this forum.
posted by AirTrainer at 06:12 P.M. EST on Tue Aug 02, 2005 #
I doubt Air America will ever come to Toledo because they are not in a position to expand or really thrive in current markets...it's getting horrible ratings in NYC (fewer people listen to Al Franken than Michael Savage) and NYC is the liberal bastion of the country. Limbaugh is the King of talk radio when it comes to ratings and Hannity is a close second. That's why so many stations carry them and not many carry Air America.
posted by HeyHey at 10:34 A.M. EST on Wed Aug 03, 2005 #
I don't have statistics to back this up - but it seems as if Air America is more for the elite/academic liberal. Toledo on the other hand is made up more of blue collar/labor liberals.
Al Franken works for blue collar/labor liberals, but he is not one of them.
posted by babbleman at 11:06 A.M. EST on Wed Aug 03, 2005 #
Air America Radio could be mired in a possible scandal. Aug 1 story from the New York Sun???
"The top executive at a Bronx youth organization said [Sunday] that the former director of Air America Radio received more than $800,000 in loans for himself and the radio network from the nonprofit organization while serving as its development director. Mr. Cohen told the executive director of the organization that he needed the money to pay for chemotherapy for himself and other medical expenses for his ill father."
"Ms. Graves said that Mr. Cohen also received another $213,000 loan for Air America in a check that was approved without her authorization and stamped with an imprint of her signature, and that the club wired more than $400,000 to him without her knowledge."
"In June, the city's Department of Investigation announced the suspension of city grants and contracts with Gloria Wise, worth millions of dollars, because of allegations, among others, that its officials had approved "significant inappropriate transactions and falsified documents that were submitted to various city agencies." "
Sounds like others went to the same "How-To Swindle" conference attended by Tom Noe.
"Ms. Graves said Air America has agreed in writing to pay back the full amount of more than $800,000 in installments over the next two years. It is unclear whether the funds allegedly obtained from Gloria Wise were ultimately received or spent by Air America."
posted by jr at 11:18 A.M. EST on Wed Aug 03, 2005 #
AirTrainer wrote: "Schaffer rightly complains that the Toledo Blade is a slanted rag. However, Schaffer is incapable of seeing the slant in his own propaganda broadcasts. "
The difference, AirTrainer, is that Schaffer is a talk show host - NOT a reporter. The Blade's reporting should not be biased, but it's columnists and editorials certainly can be. When the opinions cross over into the news stories, that's inappropriate - and Denny is right when he says it's wrong.
Denny, on the other hand, gets paid to voice his OPINION - agree with it or not.
Reporters should report the news - not provide a slant or bias to it.
posted by intrepid at 12:05 P.M. EST on Wed Aug 03, 2005 #
The name you're looking for is Sean Baligian. He and Scott Sloan were the two best things on Toledo radio in decades. I miss them both.
Remember when they used to organize blacktop hockey games in the parking lot after they got off the air?
-Dan
posted by photodan at 03:29 P.M. EST on Thu Aug 04, 2005 #
Intrepid, I understand the point you are trying to make, but in today's media environment, I don't think the distinction holds much water. The evening news can easily be classified as 'info-tainment', and many media outlets are configured via party lines.
I'll give you this about Schaffer - one can rarely tell how he is going to skew some new topic. I will agree that he doesn't toe a party line. The one consistency with Denny is that is he is more than willing to only tell the portions of a given story which support his opinion. That makes him as worthless as any ABC/NBC/CBS.
The airwaves are owned by John Q. Public, and broadcasters such as WSPD ply their trade at the pleasure of you and I, as administered by our bureaucratic friends at the FCC. Riddle me this - how is Schaffer serving the public interest when he is in editorial mode from 3pm to 6pm?
At any rate, I've never heard a radio personality with such an intense passive/aggressive complex. I'll explain; Denny incessantly whines that no one is calling into his show, and that he doesn't understand why Toledoans aren't more outraged about 'issue X'. Then, when someone calls the show, Denny is as rude and short as can be. I have no idea at all why Glenn Beck is associated with Schaffer. It must be some sort of corporate link.
The bottom line is that WSPD fails to serve the public interest from 3pm to 6pm weekdays, and I will be voicing my opinion to the FCC when WSPD's license is up for renewal.
posted by AirTrainer at 05:13 P.M. EST on Thu Aug 04, 2005 #
I am also one of Scott's 26 listeners. I love it when he filled in for Shaffer. Sloan opened one show last year with "Well, still arguing over the smoking ban, J-Fo is quiet as ever, and the city is still in massive debt. So what exactly has changed since I left?"
I usually can pick up 700 in my car at night or stream it every once in a while. Still good as ever. He does a lot of national issues, not just Cinci issues. HELL of a lot better than the nut on from 9-12 on WSPD... oh what's his name...
And, yes, March Madmen was fine radio.
posted by UTKev at 06:21 P.M. EST on Thu Aug 04, 2005 #
I believe Sean is on AM 1270 out of Detroit.
I remember Sloan used to do a bit where he talked like a hick, and his character was called Hoyt or something like that.
posted by jr at 07:58 P.M. EST on Thu Aug 04, 2005 #
The name you're looking for is Sean Baligian. He and Scott Sloan were the two best things on Toledo radio in decades. I miss them both.
Remember when they used to organize blacktop hockey games in the parking lot after they got off the air?
-Dan
posted by photodan at 04:29 P.M. EST on Thu Aug 04, 2005 #
--------------------------------------------
That's it-pronounced "Bah-lee-jan." Many thanks. They were the best damned team ever to be on radio here, imo.
posted by Foolkiller at 10:52 P.M. EST on Thu Aug 04, 2005 #
Here's one final thought: I am likely the most conservative writer on this forum.
posted by AirTrainer at 07:12 P.M. EST on Tue Aug 02, 2005 #
------------------------------------------
I wouldn't be too sure of that. swd comes to mind. ;)
posted by Foolkiller at 10:55 P.M. EST on Thu Aug 04, 2005 #
I don't have statistics to back this up - but it seems as if Air America is more for the elite/academic liberal. Toledo on the other hand is made up more of blue collar/labor liberals. -babbleman
-------------------------------------------
ANY large city or "urban area" is composed of nothing but elitists. Which is precisely why I never want to see Toledo grow.
posted by Foolkiller at 10:58 P.M. EST on Thu Aug 04, 2005 #
Airtrainer wrote: "Intrepid, I understand the point you are trying to make, but in today's media environment, I don't think the distinction holds much water. The evening news can easily be classified as 'info-tainment', and many media outlets are configured via party lines. "
You're right, Airtrainer, that the distinction doesn't hold much water. My point is that it SHOULD! News programs used to be known for their unbiased, direct reporting. They clearly separated their opinion from the news and, as a watcher/listener, one clearly understood where news ended and opinion began.
The problem is that we've allowed it to become "info-tainment" and many still believe it is just news - failing to understand that they're getting a bias when they tune in.
I don't always agree with Denny, but I (for the most part) enjoy his show.
I understand the difference between a talk show - on radio or TV - and news. I don't mind opinion on talk shows, but I do in the news.
I just wish most people felt the same way, but then, I'm not sure we're even teaching discernment these days...we're too worried about being "judgmental..." It used to be that being judgmental or exercising discernment was a good thing.
posted by intrepid at 06:50 A.M. EST on Fri Aug 05, 2005 #
Intrepid, what influence do major advertisers have on news content? I have heard that news unfavorable to a major advertiser may be pulled or softened. I do remember one allegation by Robert Kennedy Jr. about Marisol, a preserative in childhood immunizations thought to be resposible for autism. Apparently he had a special documentary scheduled to air very unfavorable to Marisol. The special was heavily edited at the last second in such a manner that it actually reversed the initial message. I think it was ABC. The maker of Marisol (a big drug company whose name I don't recall) was a big advertiser. Even if true though, it certainly does not excuse the media outlet from biased reporting.
posted by holland at 08:28 A.M. EST on Fri Aug 05, 2005 #
"what influence do major advertisers have on news content?"
announced this week:
"General Motors Corp. has ended an advertising boycott against the Los Angeles Times that began in April because of what the auto maker called factual errors and misrepresentations in newspaper's coverage."
"GM spent around $21 million on ad space in the Times in 2004, up from about $9.9 million in 2003. Times spokeswoman Martha Goldstein declined to comment on the financial effect of the boycott. The Times, along with other newspapers across the nation, has been struggling amid sluggish advertising demand and a downturn in circulation."
I wonder what the so-called errors were and were they really errors?
A little more about this story:
"General Motors placed a full-page ad in Monday's edition of the LA Times, ending a boycott the automaker began in April when the paper published a column calling for the ousting of GM's Chief Executive Rick Wagoner, according to the LA Times. At the time, GM executives said they had concerns beyond Neil's column but declined to talk about them publicly."
That's all it was? A column calling for someone to be fired. Like that hasn't happened before.
"In the ensuing months, the Times and GM engaged in talks, the result being that the two companies have "respectfully agreed to disagree on some of the issues," said GM spokesman Brian Akre."
A little more about this:
"The advertising was pulled in April after Times automotive columnist Dan Neil, in his review of the Pontiac G6 sedan, called on GM to "dump" Chairman and Chief Executive Richard Wagoner. GM denied that a single article triggered the move."
posted by jr at 09:31 A.M. EST on Fri Aug 05, 2005 #
"what influence do major advertisers have on news content?"
Actually - they shouldn't have any, but I recognize that often, weak-minded individuals will let the influence occur.
In an ideal world:
- News article are factual - not imbedded with biases.
- Columnists voice opinions.
- Editorials clearly state a position and back the position up with the facts. Facts that somehow indicate an opposite conclusion are documented and addressed.
- Advertisers are encouraged to write an op-ed piece if they disagree with a columnist or editorial position.
- Advertisers are interviewed and accurately documented if a story is about them.
- Advertisers - or even individuals - are okay with the news stories because they clearly presented all sides fairly and accurately.
- Advertisers - or even individuals - are free to start their own paper if they don't like the editoral/columnist opinions. They are also free to stop their advertising or subscriptions for any reason.
My ideal world.
posted by intrepid at 11:51 A.M. EST on Fri Aug 05, 2005 #
One more time to the question: "What influence do major advertisers have on news content?"
"Of the three major free tabloid-size daily newspapers that have arisen in the Bay Area in the last decade, two, the San Francisco Examiner and the Palo Alto Daily News, allow advertisers to determine some journalistic content and distribution. Advertisers or ad reps are writing news, and journalists are doing promotional stories that read like ads."
"David Danforth helped start the Aspen Daily News in Colorado and is still involved in free papers in Santa Monica and Conway, N.H. One of the reasons he said he could no longer work with his former colleagues was their avoidance of news stories that might embarrass advertisers."
The only way to be a true independent media source is to not take advertising dollars. But then how do you make a dime? Subscriptions? Donations?
posted by jr at 11:51 P.M. EST on Sun Aug 07, 2005 #
jr - the solution is to keep very separate the sales and news departments and to not allow the editorial positions to determine the slant in the news portion.
It's worked well for decades, I believe, but it needs strong individuals who know how to stand up and do the right thing and not be driven solely by the almighty dollar.
posted by intrepid at 05:48 A.M. EST on Mon Aug 08, 2005 #
As a journalist I have not personally witnessed advertisers affecting news in this market. In fact, the usual response from editors and publishers - when a major advertiser might be pissed about an article - goes something like this:
"Screw them. It's the story that counts. They'll get over it."
That being said, there is always extra pressure when a writer knows that a story might cause advertisers to bolt. Better make sure everything is perfect when you bite the hand that feeds you.
Intrepid makes a good point about separation between sales and news departments. One can just imagine the potential for abuse there.
Things get murkier when you have stories about new businesses, and then ads start running in the same venue. Did the outlet do a deal where they would throw in a fluff piece in exchange for future ads? Or did the outlet's sales reps just follow up after the story ran, just like every other outlet?
While not a news show, the Clark-and-Shaw program on WSPD/WCWA was aptly named: "Saturday Morning Confusion." Most of the three hours served as radio infomercials, and the hosts were sales reps for the stations. The golf segment featured a local golf store owner, and his ads ran in that segment. Same with the other features; it was hard to tell where "show" ended and "ad" began, hence "Confusion" suited the show well.
In print, reporters who write fluff pieces that sound like press releases are, at best, just guilty of laziness. At worst, they might be participants in ads disguised as news, which is crappy journalism.
A poster (jr?) criticized a TV news piece on the Erie Islands region that featured the local chamber of commerce president. Anyone remember the details of that piece?
posted by historymike at 10:38 A.M. EST on Mon Aug 08, 2005 #
That posting was about Ch 24's week-long series about Port Clinton, which was sponsored or co-presented by the Port Clinton Area Chamber of Commerce. It doesn't sound like the kind of thing that should be shown on a news program. The PBS show Great Lakes Ports O' Call would be a better home for such a documentary.
posted by jr at 11:01 A.M. EST on Mon Aug 08, 2005 #
More info on the influence major advertisers have on news and opinion. [Via Arbor Update]
"A Michigan newspaper columnist who was fired Tuesday claims his dismissal was punishment for a column he wrote on Saturday criticizing American cars."
"James Briggs, a former columnist and news editor at The Daily Telegram of Adrian, Mich., says the publisher canned him for writing the column that upset auto dealers and others so close to Detroit's auto manufacturing power houses. The publisher told E&P that auto advertisers did complain, but says there's more to it than that."
"What he wrote was a column in Saturday's paper that described his decision to switch from driving an American car to a foreign model. Briggs, 24, said he received no feedback from the newspaper until Tuesday morning when Publisher Paul Heidbreder approached him during his meeting with Lenz. "He said it was insensitive for me to write such a column given our proximity to the Big Three [automakers]," Briggs said. [Lenz] said no advertising had been lost so far, although some auto dealers had threatened to pull ads."
So much for the free press.
From Briggs's column:
"Given that family history, I was more than a little uncomfortable to see my grandfather this spring. Because after driving four GM vehicles - including that trusty S-10, which I hear has served at least two owners faithfully since me - I jumped ship to a foreign automaker."
"Maybe I'm hitting a late rebellious streak. Maybe I'm simply unpatriotic, ungrateful or un-American. Or maybe the domestic automakers have slipped so far down that purchasing an American vehicle has become moronic. I'll go with that answer."
"Because even with access to the GM employee discount - before each of the domestic automakers were handing them out like balloons at a tent sale - I found time after time that foreign vehicles come with a smaller price tag and more than twice the warrantee as what the Big Three offer."
"I traveled to dozens of dealerships and searched every auto Web site I could find. Invariably, I reached the same conclusions at every turn: Foreign cars are more dependable and less costly."
"Finally, common sense trampled my American ego - especially when I realized the GM vehicle I was driving had been built in Mexico, while the Japanese vehicle I was test-driving had been built in Indiana. Which one is more American?"
"The Big Three should be frightened. No longer boasting the best products or the lowest prices, domestic automakers are losing their strongest selling point: bullish American pride."
posted by jr at 03:03 P.M. EST on Fri Aug 12, 2005 #
Just like Daimler-Chrysler having a major product manufacturing plant in Toledo and the Toledo City motorpool is stocked full of Fords?
posted by BrianInFlorida at 04:31 P.M. EST on Fri Aug 12, 2005 #
I'm not disappointed Schafer's leaving Toledo. I can't listen to him, nor Frantz. Factless opinion, loud yelling, cutting off challenging calls, namecalling, etc. This is what talk radio has come to? Denny said a few weeks ago he works for Clear Channel, a conservative company, and he'd be stupid to cross them. So only the conservative opinion can be shared. I'd like to see someone allow all opinions like Mitch Abloom on WJR. Based on WSPD's past history, I don't see it happening. I wrote 1560 when they were changing formats and asked that they consider Air America. They went w/ conservative talk and if you check the ratings, they are non-existent. Why not offer something different? Terrestrial radio is nearly unlistenable.
posted by coyote at 07:32 P.M. EST on Tue Aug 30, 2005 #
Denny said Clear Channel is CONSERVATIVE???? This is the biggest Clear Channel number making station in it's family, and it is so far from conservative....
Midday's, 11-3, the Love Doctors. What Denny fails to tell you is that if he would allow a liberal bend to his show, his ratings would decline. Try competing againt the Jerry Springer Show. Dave Ross, with Clear Channel Miami, has the Jerry Springer Show on middays. Denny DID say "..said a few weeks ago he works for Clear Channel, a conservative company, and he'd be stupid to cross them."
All Clear Channel wants is high Arbitron numbers.
posted by BrianInFlorida at 04:59 A.M. EST on Wed Aug 31, 2005 #
CORRECTION: in "talk" format. Not music radio.
posted by BrianInFlorida at 07:09 A.M. EST on Wed Aug 31, 2005 #
Agreed, Brian. It's all about the Benjamins for Clear Channel. They would give Fidel Castro a mike if he pulled the market share and helped them sell a s***load of ads in Miami.
posted by historymike at 07:21 A.M. EST on Wed Aug 31, 2005 #
People, people, people, it's called free enterprize and free speech.
And, best of all, you can choose to listen to it or not.
Ain't America Great?
posted by Hooda_Thunkit at 04:38 P.M. EST on Wed Aug 31, 2005 #
Bob Frantz moved his blog from Blogger to Typepad for better admin functionality.
http://www.frantzrantz.typepad.com/
posted by jr at 10:22 A.M. EST on Thu Sep 01, 2005 #
jr,
Thanks for the corrected link!
posted by Hooda_Thunkit at 08:16 P.M. EST on Thu Sep 01, 2005 #
Although I wasn't a hugh Denny fan, like I've said before, the good ones move to bigger markets. I'm curious, who will take over for Denny?
posted by lloyd at 06:54 P.M. EST on Fri Sep 02, 2005 #
I wish someone in Toledo would pick up Ed Schultz. I can listen to him out of Detroit from 3-6 on 1310, but it fades in and out...
posted by timault at 01:49 A.M. EST on Sat Sep 03, 2005 #
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