Czarty has to have his way.
Costco should just deep-six the deal, Westgate should just board up, and anyone else who wants to come to Toledo ought to just move to the 'burbs or stay away entirely.
Toledo's done nothing except make bad decisions when it comes to jobs and business and the economy.
posted by anonymouscoward at 08:26 A.M. EST on Fri Apr 14, 2006 #
I never understood why they had to tack that 57 cents on there, myself, Personally, I'd say that the cheapest you can live on (a single person) in the area would be 9 dollars an hour-from personal experience. That's not living well, but you can survive. Why didn't they just go with that? Of course, ten is better,but if you're going to continually make exceptions, why bother even having that rule in the first place? The vast majority of our politicians are worthless.
posted by Darkseid at 08:33 A.M. EST on Fri Apr 14, 2006 #
And for once, I agree wholeheartedly with AC.
posted by Darkseid at 08:34 A.M. EST on Fri Apr 14, 2006 #
Cause if they didn't add the 57 cents they would have to call it the "just surviving wage" and that, ladies and gentleman, does not sound half as prosperous as the ever so generous "Living Wage!"
posted by jdmsbyrd at 09:23 A.M. EST on Fri Apr 14, 2006 #
Can Carty screw this up any more than he already has?
According to The Blade:
Living wage requires: $10.57/hour w/ benefits of 85% beginning after 60 days
Costco offers: $10.50/hour w/ benefits of 94.5% beginning after 90 days.
It's also worthy to note that these wages are for only two positions and the benefits package includes dental and vision, which is more than many jobs can say.
In reality Costco probably betters the living wage requirement, and yet it still is not enough. Fortunately, I think the veto is going to be suppressed since they need 9 votes out of 12. Either McCloskey or Copeland will vote for this and then everything will go through.
posted by HeyHey at 10:15 A.M. EST on Fri Apr 14, 2006 #
Can Carty screw this up any more than he already has?
According to The Blade:
Living wage requires: $10.57/hour w/ benefits of 85% beginning after 60 days
Costco offers: $10.50/hour w/ benefits of 94.5% beginning after 90 days.
It's also worthy to note that these wages are for only two positions and the benefits package includes dental and vision, which is more than many jobs can say.
In reality Costco probably betters the living wage requirement, and yet it still is not enough. Fortunately, I think the veto is going to be suppressed since they need 9 votes out of 12. Either McCloskey or Copeland will vote for this and then everything will go through.
posted by HeyHey at 10:15 A.M. EST on Fri Apr 14, 2006 #
Sorry about that.......
posted by HeyHey at 10:15 A.M. EST on Fri Apr 14, 2006 #
ahhh - a little different slant than the slavery version.
This is considerably higher per hour than the minimum wage. And well within reach of TCC's 'lving' wage.
Carty didn't want Costco in the first place tho' - did he?
posted by katie82640 at 10:25 A.M. EST on Fri Apr 14, 2006 #
Living wage requires: $10.57/hour w/ benefits of 85% beginning after 60 days
Costco offers: $10.50/hour w/ benefits of 94.5% beginning after 90 days.
So...are we arguing over 7 cents? And a couple of days? The higher percentage of benefits covered should far exceed the 7 cents in my opinion.
posted by lloyd at 02:40 P.M. EST on Fri Apr 14, 2006 #
Gee, maybe the living wage should be boosted to around $35.00/hr. This would make the gas prices seem very affordable. See, simple solution. I can't believe City Council didn't think of it. Next.
posted by AmericanPie at 04:34 P.M. EST on Fri Apr 14, 2006 #
sounds like BS to me. Doesn't look like a real difference if its true.
posted by jdmsbyrd at 05:29 P.M. EST on Fri Apr 14, 2006 #
Living wage requires: $10.57/hour w/ benefits of 85% beginning after 60 days
Costco offers: $10.50/hour w/ benefits of 94.5% beginning after 90 days.
Not for part-time workers, they have to wait 180 days and so far no one has verified what the percentage of full-time versus part-time workers is going to be, or I missed that.
I'm also not sure where the Blade got their information because from what I read in 2004 Costco raised the amount it required employees to pay for health insurance from 4.5% to 8%. Still above the 85% but not 94.5%
Here's the exact link from Costco:
http://www.costco.com/Service/FeaturePageLeftNav.aspx?ProductNo=10045087
I don't think anyone would disagree with the statement that they do offer better benefits than their competitors. The website doesn't give the exact amounts.
posted by psyche777 at 06:38 P.M. EST on Fri Apr 14, 2006 #
"Not for part-time workers"
Part time workers need a living wage?
posted by billy at 06:42 A.M. EST on Sat Apr 15, 2006 #
Don't forget that the city's living wage is based upon a family of 4. It is NOT adjusted for singles or families of 2,3,5 or more.
Also, if 200 employees worked full time (2080 hours) at $10.50/hour before they got an increase (note that these are OPENING wages, which means there's a pay increase at some point and this estimates after 1 entire year), it means that the total difference between Costco's wage and the living wage for the year is $29,120. We're going to jeopardize the success of a $35 million project for this? As my grandmother used to say "penny wise and pound foolish."
What message does Carty's position send to the new owners of Miracle Mile?
posted by MaggieThurber at 08:16 A.M. EST on Sat Apr 15, 2006 #
Part time workers need a living wage?
Want to talk with some friends of mine who are forced to work two part-time jobs because they can't find anyone who will hire "full-time"?
How about those employers who call 32 hours a week "full-time". One of them has a name resembling "Wall Mart".
Watch your assumptions on some of this stuff, okay?
posted by anonymouscoward at 08:17 A.M. EST on Sat Apr 15, 2006 #
AC - you're right about some employers calling 32 hours fulltime. I hope you weren't referring to my EXAMPLE as an assumption...
posted by MaggieThurber at 08:56 A.M. EST on Sat Apr 15, 2006 #
I'm hoping that there will be some reconsideration from Carty's side of the fence. All I'm seeing at this point is the unions wielding power in Toledo - again.
The unions can be very good for certain support functions, but we have to be careful just how much of our lives we place in their hands. Unions are a business, too.
And, AC, I know the frustration you exhibit. Been there. But I will maintain that 32 hours is better than no hours. From my standpoint, when I was dumped back into the pool of the unemployed back a few years it was hard to make ends meet, but I found that with some adjustments to my lifestyle (eating out, clothes shopping, etc) that I was able to do it. Didn't leave anything extra, but I made it through. In truth, we all get spoiled to all the 'extras' we have come to enjoy and that makes it much harder when we have to scale back. It sucks - in general.
My wish list: Southwyck revitalized, Northtowne (Lakeside) revitalized, Miracle Mile cleaned up, Westgate modernized and improved, Great Eastern given a boost, Parkway Plaza injected with some vitamins, and the plaza on Navarre (Kmart?) cleaned up. We need to get rid of the ghost town appearance of our city. We are good people with so much more to offer.
And Carty??? Do you remember your "Pro growth, Pro business" speech?
posted by DoknowDocare at 08:58 A.M. EST on Sat Apr 15, 2006 #
How about those employers who call 32 hours a week "full-time".
That sounds like France.
posted by HeyHey at 09:08 A.M. EST on Sat Apr 15, 2006 #
"Want to talk with some friends of mine who are forced to work two part-time jobs because they can't find anyone who will hire "full-time"?
"Watch your assumptions on some of this stuff, okay?"
Coward, I sympathise with your friends issue, but forcing an employer to pay a living wage isnt the cure. All that would do is make for even less jobs.
And Im sorry your hatred for Walmart is so overwhelming, but let me ask you - if Walmart disappeared, what would all those folks they hire do? Would a whole bunch of good paying jobs materialize all of a sudden??
I do watch, Coward. And listen.
posted by billy at 09:50 A.M. EST on Sat Apr 15, 2006 #
A revilatization of Northtowne and Southwyck is out of hope with the remodeling of Westfield and the bulding of Levis Commons and Fallen Timbers.
posted by lloyd at 09:54 A.M. EST on Sat Apr 15, 2006 #
I get a kick out of the people who stick up for Wal-Mart by more or less using the "it's better than nothing" argument.
They are the biggest retailer there is, every one of the Walton heirs is on the list of the richest billionaires in the world, and they can't pay a decent wage or provide benefits? Bull. It's pure greed.
posted by JeepMaker at 10:45 A.M. EST on Sat Apr 15, 2006 #
Sorry Jeepmaker, I cannot agree with your union mentality. Its communistic.
posted by billy at 11:26 A.M. EST on Sat Apr 15, 2006 #
Out of curiosity, what do YOU do for a living?
posted by JeepMaker at 01:38 P.M. EST on Sat Apr 15, 2006 #
I have to ask our mayor and the two councilmen who are not in favor of waiving the living wage law (an anti-business act of legislation if there ever were), how can they sleep at night knowing they may jeopardize the chances of 300 people working for Costco and making $10.50 an hour? How many of these people are now unemployed and looking for work? How can they deny these people a job over what would be about 100 dollars per person per year? Don't they ever think that these people can use this money to pay their bills and contribute to the city's economy? How can they mess up a great chance to add more city income taxes to our budget so more police and fire personnel can be hired (Lord knows we need them!)? If Costco walks, remember Finkbeiner, Ashford and Balderas when they run for reelection. You can blame all of this on them. And I voted for Carty. At the time there was no choice between him and sleepy-headed Ford. I'm not a Democrat or a Republican in case you want to rip me for that.
posted by toledojim at 01:50 P.M. EST on Sat Apr 15, 2006 #
Costco isn't going to not come here if they have to meet the living wage stipulation. It was never promised to them and was not included as a part of the abatements already granted to them. This whole OMG if we don't give them everything they want the won't come can only go so far.
Given the Mayor can only do this twice a year, and he has already once, the real question should be given this is April...do you want him to give up the second and only waiver for Costco knowing that they have already been given several million dollars worth of "incentives" and have nothing left to offer any future employers that might come to Toledo for the remainder of the year?
If you guys are really against this you should encourage City Council and the Mayor to do what would be necessary to drop the whole living wage ordinance that way it would not be an issue and would be one less thing that Toledo demands that the burbs do not.
posted by psyche777 at 01:59 P.M. EST on Sat Apr 15, 2006 #
"Out of curiosity, what do YOU do for a living?"
Im a material planner. I monitor inventory levels in various warehouses in a couple mfg plants and distribution centers our company has and schedule production runs for the various different kinds of products our company makes. Kind of a balancing act between trying to maintain a minimum quantity of inventory (a cost) vs a maximum level of customer service (sales).
posted by billy at 02:03 P.M. EST on Sat Apr 15, 2006 #
Now I have a question for you jeepmaker - How come all you union guys hate the Walton family so much because theyre so rich, but we never hear a peep from you about Bill Gates?
Only certain rich folks are on the shit list and others skate?
posted by billy at 02:06 P.M. EST on Sat Apr 15, 2006 #
Well said ToledoJim.
posted by lloyd at 02:42 P.M. EST on Sat Apr 15, 2006 #
To go a little further than ToledoJim even did: Letting this deal go through for $100 would not only affect potential Costco employees but also any additonal hiring done to meet increased demand from the presence of Costco. Costco is a known regional draw. Unlike a drug store, restaurant, or Wal-Mart, Costco is going to draw people from a radius of 50 miles around. That's a net influx of money from outside the area, and is key to furthering the economy of any area. That means developers are no longer limited to serving the immediate area's population around Costco. They will also serve customers coming from Findlay, Dundee, or Sandusky. There should be the creation of new jobs (not just transferring from one part of the city to the other) because of the increased number of people coming from outside the area.
Psyche,
I was under the impression that the mayor can only give two exceptions per year without council approval. They should be able to give as many as they want with council approval. I could be wrong, and if I am someone point it out.
posted by HeyHey at 03:08 P.M. EST on Sat Apr 15, 2006 #
Now I have a question for you jeepmaker - How come all you union guys hate the Walton family so much because theyre so rich, but we never hear a peep from you about Bill Gates?
Because Microsoft employees aren't "union-type people" like Wal-Mart's. They ignore that Wal-Mart allows them to buy food and other goods for a much-reduced rate, if not from directly buying from Wal-Mart then buying at competitors who have to cut costs to keep up as well. They also ingore that Wal-Mart is way above average in pay and benefits when compared to the retail sector. Retail never has been, and never will be, a high-pay sector of the economy.
posted by HeyHey at 03:15 P.M. EST on Sat Apr 15, 2006 #
Mayor Finkbeiner is allowed by city law to authorize two waivers a year. Earlier this year, he granted a waiver to a downtown employment firm that received a city grant to relocate its offices downtown.
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060413/NEWS16/604130355
So he chose not to use his final waiver, doesn't say if Council can approve without him and if he veto's it and he doesn't have the votes to over turn it? Not clear if that counts as one of his veto's or not.
I couldn't find it on a quick search of the City Charter, all I found was this:
In June, the Toledo City Council voted 12-0 to enact a living wage ordinance that covers employees working on city contracts over $10,000 (and more the 25 employees) and employees working for recipients of subsidies from the city of more that $100,000 (with more than 50 employees). The living wage shall be at least 110% of the federal poverty level for a family of 4, currently $10.23/hour, if health coverage is provided or 130% of the poverty level, currently $12.09 (05/05), without health coverage. Employees of the tenants in properties that have benefited from financial assistance from the city are covered.
But I'll keep looking it has to be in there somewhere...
:-)
posted by psyche777 at 03:45 P.M. EST on Sat Apr 15, 2006 #
Found it:
contractors, subcontractors or employees of financial assistance recipients working on a project which the Mayor has determined is crucial to the economic development of the City. No more than two (2) exemptions pursuant to subparagraph (c)(10) shall be granted during any calendar year.
That reads as if only two can be granted period...
187.36 Living wage definitions
http://www.amlegal.com/toledo%5Foh/
posted by psyche777 at 03:50 P.M. EST on Sat Apr 15, 2006 #
They ignore that Wal-Mart allows them to buy food and other goods for a much-reduced rate, if not from directly buying from Wal-Mart then buying at competitors who have to cut costs to keep up as well. They also ingore that Wal-Mart is way above average in pay and benefits when compared to the retail sector.
I see someone's been reading from the Wal-Mart "Facts" website... how about you stop taking the company line and actually THINK for a change, or has that overpriced education you claim you're getting fried your brain?
Ask some union people about the history of shopping at the company store... and it's a good thing Mall*Wart gives its employees a discount, because hey, when you work at Mall*Wart, you can't afford to shop anywhere else.
Mall*Wart has a history of hiring illegals to clean their stores and of locking employees IN to do unpaid work. They clearly don't want to pay Americans for the work they do.
Shop at Mall*Wart, support unpaid labor, support illegal immigrants, and support the Chinese economy.
Oh, and be sure to stop by your local EXXON station and fill up. After $34 BILLION IN PROFITS last year (the world record in profits for a corporation), they're giving their CEO a $400 MILLION RETIREMENT PACKAGE.
Let's hear one of you goddamn conservative fuckers defend THAT. I double motherfucking dog dare you pussy-ass cowards who love Wal*Mart and their business practices to defend Exxon's CEO getting $400 MILLION to retire.
posted by anonymouscoward at 09:31 P.M. EST on Sat Apr 15, 2006 #
You're the most immature and vulgar person on this site. You always resort to profanity and claiming that no one who disagrees with you can think for themselves. That's a great way to debate. Has it ever occurred to you that you may be the one not thinking? Or are you too closed minded to think about that? You are the very same type of person you gripe and complain about in 90% of your posts on here. Why is it that you turn to personal attacks at the very outset of a discussion?
posted by HeyHey at 10:18 P.M. EST on Sat Apr 15, 2006 #
Why is it that you turn to personal attacks at the very outset of a discussion?
Because you're a fool and I don't suffer them gladly at the moment.
posted by anonymouscoward at 10:21 P.M. EST on Sat Apr 15, 2006 #
'How To Win Friends & Influence People' by AC. LOL
posted by Darkseid at 11:57 P.M. EST on Sat Apr 15, 2006 #
'How To Win Friends & Influence People' by AC. LOL
AC is under a lot of stress at the current time, and really doesn't have the time to play nice with people and repeat the same things over and over hoping that they sink in... like explaining what a theory is.
AC is also sick of the real cowards who roll over and surrender their civil liberties and rights to the government just so they can feel "safer". AC feels less safe knowing the government is wiretapping his phone and Internet, and those of the people he knows, because the people doing the tapping are claiming they have the unchecked power, and power corrupts.
AC is also very scared about the reports that we are planning to use bunker-busting nukes if we go after Iran. If we start whipping out tacnukes, a hell of a lot of other countries are going to want their own nukes in defense of the threat a USA willing to use nukes is. What are we going to do then, nuke them as well? Invade and occupy those nations?
AC is also very displeased at the state of the local/regional economy and how difficult it has been for him, a certified computer guy, to land a job in his field anywhere. AC is more than willing to work, but nobody wants to take a chance in hiring him.
AC is also just really tired of how the majority of people never bother to ask questions, particularly of themselves, and of how they never bother to enlighten themselves with answers, or worse, rely on the first answer they're given. AC would like nothing more than to see people actually out learning things and finding answers outside the places that people habitually look for them (e.g. looking at sources other than the Bible, Fox News, the so-called liberal media, the liberal blogosphere, whatever). AC would especially like it if people would stop acting like most of his "fellow" "students" -- bitching about the course material, the instructor, the instruction method, and so on, all while being woefully unprepared for the actual class or practical application of such knowledge -- and take some matters into their own hands. AC is sick and tired, for example, of being the only person in chem lab who actually knows what he's doing, what the equipment is called, and how to use it. If AC doesn't know something, he admits it and goes off to look it up. AC tries to find out as much as he can from other sources BEFORE he bothers someone or asks someone for help. AC had to learn most of his knowledge the hard way: trial and fuck-up. AC didn't have happy hand-holding when he was learning stuff, he had cruel laughter.
Instead of watching TV and getting all wrapped up in music and sports and entertainment/gossip BS, AC decided to ask himself questions and then go find the answers. AC is really tired of people who can't even think of questions to ask so they can get started on finding answers. AC's tired of finding people living with broken things, issues, and problems that they could fix if they'd start with "why does my computer give me a STOP 0x000007E blue screen" and then proceed to spend a few evenings doing some heavy research learning about computers rather than doing all those other things people do for entertainment purposes and then calling AC to make with the fixing. AC is dreadfully worried that some disaster's going to wipe out all electronics in America or something and AC will be the only person for 500 miles who can do math without a calculator and figure out logarithms and stuff because AC has a math book, an abacus, and a slide rule handy.
AC learns how things work while other people remain ignorant. Since ignorance = bliss, those people are happy while AC is continually pissed off, not least because those happy ignorant people have no idea how much more complex they make AC's life, and how much AC sacrifices so that they can continue their ignorant blissful lives.
AC's going to take a break again before he really snaps. Thank you for listening.
-- Tyler Durden
posted by anonymouscoward at 04:06 A.M. EST on Sun Apr 16, 2006 #
Hey Billy, was it you that came up with "The Pledge" on Frantz's site?
Might be pertinent here
posted by WhiteAfricanAmerican at 07:05 A.M. EST on Sun Apr 16, 2006 #
I cant remember who did it. but right now, naw, he's too funny. Do you remember the time he bitched because people shortened his handle to just 'coward'?
And WHO chose that handle?
"AC is also very displeased at the state of the local/regional economy and how difficult it has been for him, a certified computer guy, to land a job in his field anywhere. AC is more than willing to work, but nobody wants to take a chance in hiring him."
Ive had friends with IS degrees who are enviable because they are able to find jobs rather quickly here in town - I know one of them who just hired straight outta college at Owens Corning at a great wage - It might have to do with the "Let's hear one of you goddamn conservative fuckers defend THAT. I double motherfucking dog dare you pussy-ass cowards who love Wal*Mart and their business practices to defend Exxon's CEO getting $400 MILLION to retire" kind of attitude, but then I wouldnt know -
AC learns how things work while other people remain ignorant
Ignorant Billy WORKS while AC whines about is situation and wonders if maybe AC needs a reality check.
posted by billy at 07:37 A.M. EST on Sun Apr 16, 2006 #
Let's hear one of you goddamn conservative fuckers defend THAT. I double motherfucking dog dare you pussy-ass cowards who love Wal*Mart and their business practices to defend Exxon's CEO getting $400 MILLION to retire"
I suppose it has nothing to do with the fact that any given CEO has spent the better part of 10 years getting an MBA?
Or the fact that not any schmoe can run a multi billion doallar company successfully?
Or that fact that your average Jeep worker would be unwilling to put in the hours your average CEO puts in WITHOUT OT.
Or that your average Jeep worker wouldn't know how to deal with the stress that your average CEO has to put up with.
Nope, non of that factors in, I mean all a CEO does is show up to work, sit in his office (BTW, has anyone seen what Walmart's CEO's office looks like?, I've seen some cubicles with better decor and lighting), spend 8 hrs there doing nothing, plays a round of golf and cashes his paycheck.
Easiest Job in the world, eh Coward? You ignorant slut!
posted by WhiteAfricanAmerican at 08:04 A.M. EST on Sun Apr 16, 2006 #
For the record --- I appreciate those of you that took the time to respond to this topic. I am disappointed in the turn it has taken of late with the abrasive language and some ongoing dissention between a couple of posters. I find it disheartening that people reduce themselves to name calling and vulgarity when their statements could have been made more intelligently.
All jobs require knowledge, ability, time and dedication - some require more than others. I believe that without the overpaid (?) CEOs there wouldn't be companies that provide jobs for all the others. Someone has to captain the ship.
Toledo needs businesses that have the potential to attract other businesses. Whether you like WalMart or Costco or you don't, you would think that their presence draws other businesses that want to thrive based on the level of traffic and overflow. It's trickle down economics. If I owned a small business that could position itself in the traffic line of a WalMart or Costco, I most certainly would do that. Just the exposure is worth a lot.
None of us are always going to agree on all the facets of economic development for Toledo/Lucas County. That's a given. But we all should consider all points of view to be valid as we all see the world through different eyes.
Thanks to all of you that have weighed in on this one.
posted by DoknowDocare at 08:40 A.M. EST on Sun Apr 16, 2006 #
So far as I know Microsoft pays a good wage and their employees have benefits. Gates also annually gives away many millions of dollars to various charities. I don't have a problem with all rich people, just ones that wish to maintain their wealth by treating their employees like serfs.
posted by JeepMaker at 08:41 P.M. EST on Sun Apr 16, 2006 #
ac: "Let's hear one of you goddamn conservative fuckers defend THAT"
I think it's a good idea to take a break. This kind of talk cannot possibly be authored in the intent of honorable discourse. It serves only to inflame and far from being helpful - this is the exact kind of behavior that is ripping a country apart that desperately needs healing. And that is going to require honorable behavior from honorable citizens.
As I said - we need a hero.
posted by katie82640 at 10:53 A.M. EST on Mon Apr 17, 2006 #
I'd consider myself a conservative and I darn sure wouldn't defend companies like Wal-Mart and the tactics they use.
I'm not saying that CEO's aren't worth good money, but it's gotten ridiculous. We have these bigwigs making more money, sometimes many times more money in ONE DAY than the average guy makes in a year. Thats a joke.
posted by JeepMaker at 02:27 P.M. EST on Tue Apr 18, 2006 #
Some of these guys make more in one year than many of us will make in a decade.
posted by katie82640 at 02:49 P.M. EST on Tue Apr 18, 2006 #
"I double motherfucking dog dare you pussy-ass cowards who love Wal*Mart and their business practices to defend Exxon's CEO getting $400 MILLION to retire."
AC - I think that amount is crazy and beyond the grasp of most people but if you ran my company and obtained $34 billion in profits for my shareholders I would give you $400 million any day of the year.
So AC I have a job for you - Let me know when you want to start working - $400 million dollars for you but only if you can give me the same $34 billion in return
posted by Toledolaw05 at 03:07 P.M. EST on Tue Apr 18, 2006 #
Katie - you're absolutely right. BUT - some of the CEOs actually work harder than I'm willing to do at this point. I've gotten lazy in my old age. :)
posted by DoknowDocare at 03:10 P.M. EST on Tue Apr 18, 2006 #
AC - please email me, thanks.
posted by GuestZero at 10:49 P.M. EST on Tue Apr 18, 2006 #
Hell, it's EASY to garner 34 billion for your company when you're talking about selling an ABSOLUTE NECESSITY as opposed to a COMMODITY. When it's a life-or-death NECESSITY as any form of energy( or any life-saving medicine) is , you can basically charge whatever you damned well please, because people are going to HAVE to run their vehicles or heat their homes. I could make 34 bil for any oil company-so could anyone here. Ain't like running something with true competition like generous motors. I'm not against capitalism, I'd just like to see more of it these days.
posted by Darkseid at 11:12 P.M. EST on Tue Apr 18, 2006 #
Darkseid,
I think the problem with oil prices is the fact that it is a commodity now. It's traded on world markets, so world-wide demand will drive up prices in places that are incresaing demand.
I think an important fact about oil companies is that their margins are pretty typical for other sectors of the economy. In other words the amount of profits in relation to their revenue is the same as many other sectors such as pharmaceuticals, auto companies, hospitals, and technology firms. The primary reason for oil companies' record profits is that the sheer size of these companies.
I don't think anyone would say it's fair to tell Microsoft that they can't make any more than 20% profit on every Windows unit they sell. Or it wouldn't be fair to tell Toyota that they can't make any more than 20% profit on every Camry they sell. Yet there are calls for Big Oil to limit their profits in the very same manner. Just because a product is essential doesn't mean the company should have to adibe by different rules. A lot of what I'm hearing from people (not just here, but around the country on blogs and in the news media) is that they want to begin regulating the operations of oil companies. If we are going to limit executive salaries or start limiting profit margins to a certain percentage then we are in essence regulating that sector.
Now if gouging or price fixing is going on then that has to be stopped, and the executives should go to jail. However, there's been no evidence of that, and the FTC has been looking into claims of gouging since Katrina.
It's no surprise to me that gas prices have gone up dramatically. When we refuse to increase production (through drilling ANWR, Lake Erie, etc) and when we start making states use mandatory additives it's going to make the price go up. Supply and demand rules still apply, and if we refuse to increase supply in a rate comparable to demand then prices will rise as we've seen.
posted by HeyHey at 10:38 A.M. EST on Wed Apr 19, 2006 #
I'm still really confused on the COSCO issue. Can you guys tell me what you think is going on?
I know that I voted for the Mayor. I had hoped he'd get into office - get loud, beat on his OWN chest and get some things done. He said, then, that he wanted to attract big business to Toledo but now he doesn't want COSCO which would drive alot of traffic into that shopping area.
I cannot figure out for life of me - why? It looked like it was a cost of living issue - but then when the numbers actually appeared, the packages approach the asking price, with an advantage in availability timing of health insurance coverage. That's not it.
Asthetics? Could this just about a difference of opinion on decoration? I can't believe that.
What's the deal? Anybody know? What is it that could cause a newly elected Mayor to deflect a proven traffic provider from setting up shop where they are so badly needed?
posted by katie82640 at 01:05 P.M. EST on Thu Apr 20, 2006 #
Katie - I know that Carty has a couple of issues, but one that really upsets him is the money that the CITY has to pay WLS. Under the provision in State Law that is covering Westgate's tax abatement is a clause that requires a city to "make the schools whole" or "make some other arrangement." So since Toledo made the deal on the tax abatement, they had to come to an arrangement with Washington Local School Board to address their portion of the abatement. Under the deal Ford put together, the City pays them around $300,000 (I don't know the final figure).
I know that this is one issue that really upsets Carty because he believes that the owner of the property should make the schools whole. However, this provision was added by the state legislature to make sure that this type of abatement (which actually has pretty stringent criteria) is used appropriately by cities.
Anyway, there's this issue and the fact that Carty, IMHO, just likes to have his own way. I believe he truly thinks what he is doing is best for Toledo, but sometimes, he focuses on the tree while the forest burns. And in this case, he's sent a very powerful message to a lot of property owners and it wasn't a very friendly one, either.
posted by MaggieThurber at 08:59 P.M. EST on Thu Apr 20, 2006 #
Well that makes some sense, Maggie - thank you. I'm not too happy with our Mayor right now - however - this just didn't make sense.
The tax abatement is steep and I imagine since the taxes aren't coming and will be going out to WLS that's got to hurt in the budget.
This is still under negotiation or is the tax abatement a done deal? I guess I'm asking if there's room to meet in the middle.
posted by katie82640 at 10:18 A.M. EST on Fri Apr 21, 2006 #
not sure, Katie, but I know that WLS board already voted on the matter...
posted by MaggieThurber at 09:40 A.M. EST on Sat Apr 22, 2006 #
I'll see if I can find out what the vote was. I guess, given the tax situation - there's a different face on the story other than a .07 or (/) .09 difference in wage.
posted by katie82640 at 12:14 P.M. EST on Sat Apr 22, 2006 #
Actually, Katie, in order to qualify for abatement under this section of the ORC, the investment criteria is pretty stringent and much higher than for other types of abatements - which is why it's not been used very often in Ohio.
posted by MaggieThurber at 09:02 P.M. EST on Sat Apr 22, 2006 #
AC - please email me, thanks.
posted by GuestZero
Sorry, I only do email if I'm provided with an 8192 bit encryption key first.
posted by anonymouscoward at 02:10 A.M. EST on Sun Apr 23, 2006 #
Maybe it won't fly then Maggie.
posted by katie82640 at 06:48 P.M. EST on Sun Apr 23, 2006 #
No, Katie, Westgate has the abatement. Maybe I misunderstood your question...??? I guess when you asked if this was still under discussion I thought you meant from Carty's perspective. My understanding is that Carty would like to stop the abatement if he could find a way...Is that what you meant?
posted by MaggieThurber at 07:04 P.M. EST on Sun Apr 23, 2006 #
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