violating the federal, state and human right's laws that say an American child, regardless of race, color or creed is entitled to a free and appropriate public education.
The youngest segment of Toledo's population become victims when these laws are violated
Please be specific as to which laws are being violated.
posted by Offshore at 08:46 A.M. EST on Mon Sep 18, 2006 #
Please be specific as to which laws are being violated.
If this one school has consistently failed to provide an education that meets the minimum standards set by the state, and the school system has known about it and failed to act, the school district could be subjected to a law suit. The civil rights of the children under The Constitution's Fourteenth Amendment (Equal Protection Clause) have been violated.
My guess is the teachers' union would say more money is needed. Another guess is that no amount of money could fix the problem.
posted by YakRider at 08:59 A.M. EST on Mon Sep 18, 2006 #
federal laws are being violated, laws such as No Child Left Behind.
Wasn't the No Child Left Behind Act underfunded by the feds by like $27 billion?
posted by pink_slip at 10:53 A.M. EST on Mon Sep 18, 2006 #
from the Blade website:
Number of failing schools nearly doubles; 82 in region fall short of standards for 2 years
Friday, August 18, 2006
The number of northwest Ohio schools that must offer tutoring and allow students to transfer nearly doubled in 2005-06 over the previous school year.
Three chronic offenders in the state, including Toledo's Pickett Elementary, have been on the list for seven years, longer than any others.
posted by toledotalk23 at 10:59 A.M. EST on Mon Sep 18, 2006 #
The Blade generally refuses to cast the TPS in any bad light, other than illustrating boardroom conflicts that are slanted against that radical minority (namely, Mr Flagg, Claudia, and now Fisher and Torres). In truth, Sanders, Sykes, Barnett, Silver, and the army of administrators are the REAL minority here, in that their actions oppose the rational advancement of child education in Toledo (particularly Toledo's downtrodden economic areas which are festooned with deeply troubled grade schoools). Even parents who care less, and who tend to prioritize work and entertainments over their hood rats' educations, do voice some concern when prompted about the education system and how it just doesn't serve their society.
However, the Sanders Army makes up in power and influence what it lacks in numbers and moral basis. Maj. General Sanders was sent to another theatre to command education-destruction operations there, so command has now fallen to Brig. General Sykes, who continues to deploy his Paper Commandoes to keep the Toledo Theatre running awash in red -- red with budget deficits from massively irresponsible spending, and red with the blood of all the kids who grow up into thugs from their terrible educational experience.
We can't look to the Blade for true coverage of the TPS. From what I've seen of the TFP, we probably can't count on investigative reporting there, either. What remains is direct citizen action. Mr Myers occupies a natural leadership position in this conflict. I say we give him serious consideration for a TPS Board position this November, and we can rally behind him and the real Three For Change.
posted by GuestZero at 11:03 A.M. EST on Mon Sep 18, 2006 #
If this one school has consistently failed to provide an education that meets the minimum standards set by the state,
Three chronic offenders in the state, including Toledo's Pickett Elementary, have been on the list for seven years, longer than any others.
Why does this happen;who is not doing their job? Are the teachers not highly qualified are not skilled in pedagogy?
Are the teachers in the suburbs better teachers?
Is the cafeteria food devoid of nutrients?
Does the principal not attend to duties?
Why does Harvard Elementary do better? It's a TPS school right?
posted by Offshore at 11:06 A.M. EST on Mon Sep 18, 2006 #
I agree with offshore, purnhrt. You're woefully short on specifics about "crimes" being committed. We can all make the generalzation that inner city public schools are failing to provide the required learning tools to their children. This is a national problem, not just TPS. Unless you know something more...
posted by McCaskey at 12:05 P.M. EST on Mon Sep 18, 2006 #
Wasn't the No Child Left Behind Act underfunded by the feds by like $27 billion?
OHHH BURRRNNNNN
posted by anonymouscoward at 12:12 P.M. EST on Mon Sep 18, 2006 #
You couldn't pay me enough to be a schoolteacher today. They have to put up with crap from punks who, when you try to discipline them, have parents,(check that, usually a mother) that refuses to believe her baby could do any wrong.
I don't believe it's possible to force someone to learn if they refuse to put any effort into it.
My guess, and this is purely speculation on my part, is a majority of kids that go to that school have only 1 parent at home.
posted by JeepMaker at 12:21 P.M. EST on Mon Sep 18, 2006 #
Hard Work and High Expectations: Motivating Students to Learn
Introduction
Popular opinion has it that students' academic success depends on the quality of their teachers and textbooks. Ask the students themselves, however, and you get a different view. Here is how they account for their academic achievement:
Most students believe their ability and effort are the main reasons for school achievement. By the same token, if asked whether they would prefer to be called smart or hard-working, they will choose smart almost every time. Why? Because they believe that hard-working students risk being considered either excessively ambitious or of limited ability, both of which they would find embarrassing.
To avoid unpopular labels, students--especially the brightest--believe they must strike a balance between the extremes of achievement, not too high and not too low. Many students adopt an attitude of indifference to hard work, a stance that implies both confidence in their own ability and a casual regard for academic success.
At the extreme, many low-achieving students deny the importance of learning and withhold the effort it requires in order to avoid the stigma of having tried and failed.
These beliefs were voiced by educational researchers at a conference on student motivation sponsored by the Office of Educational Research and Improvement (OERI). They are a consequence of long-standing as well as more recent conditions of school life that limit student effort and academic achievement. Among these conditions, the following four emerged in the course of the conference discussions:
Students have few incentives to study. Most educators believe that, as an ideal, all students should learn as much as their ability and effort will permit. Yet, most schools reward high achievement alone, apparently assuming that the lure of high grades and test scores will inspire effort in all. Because high ability students usually capture the best grades and test scores, the labor of less-talented students is seldom acknowledged and the grades they receive for it do not inspire effort. Hence, low-ability students and those who are disadvantaged--students who must work hardest--have the least incentive to do so. They find this relationship between high effort and low grades unacceptable, something to be evaded if possible. Some of them express their displeasure by simple indifference, others by disruption and deception.
Many school policies discourage student effort. Many well-intended education policies and practices have unwittingly worked against the goal of higher achievement. For example, to increase graduation rates, some schools have allowed students to design their own courses of study, offered credit for less-rigorous alternatives to core subjects, and awarded diplomas to students who merely stayed the course and accumulated credits. While such steps may have been taken to ease the task of learning and boost the educational progress of the nation's neediest students, they have also allowed students to evade difficult academic tasks, undercut the need to make the effort, and substituted the appearance of educational attainment for its reality.
Peer pressure may discourage effort and achievement. Peer pressure profoundly influences the academic behavior of students. By the time students reach their teens, peer groups may actually define the stance most of them take toward academic achievement and effort. Typically, peer pressure motivates students to stay in school and graduate, but even as they frown on failure, peers also restrain high achievement. Wise educators seek to enlist peer influence in support of higher expectations and the pursuit of excellence. But, some student cultures actively reject academic aspirations. In this case, high grades can be a source of peer ridicule; and when effort is hostage to peer pressure, those high achievers who persist anyway may face strong social sanctions.
Good intentions often backfire. Many teachers are at cross purposes about setting higher expectations for low-achieving students, especially those who are disadvantaged. Simply put, teachers seek to reconcile the added student effort that higher expectations require with their concern that disadvantaged and low-ability children may be excessively burdened. In their attempt to be fair and to protect their pupils' self-esteem, teachers often excuse disadvantaged children from the effort that learning requires. This practice obscures the connection between effort and accomplishment and shields children from the consquences. The practice also sets the stage for later failure.
posted by KraZyKat at 12:41 P.M. EST on Mon Sep 18, 2006 #
Kat, why do suppose the OERI study placed such an emphasis on the disadvantaged?
posted by Offshore at 12:56 P.M. EST on Mon Sep 18, 2006 #
JEEPMAKER u are 100% correct. We keep pouring more money into education and the results are still the same. Poor parenting reaps poor students.
posted by rooky at 01:29 P.M. EST on Mon Sep 18, 2006 #
why do suppose the OERI study placed such an emphasis on the disadvantaged?
As Jeepmaker stated...
My guess, and this is purely speculation on my part, is a majority of kids that go to that school have only 1 parent at home.
I think the OERI recognizes the facts that students labled in the disadvantaged demographics are those most prone to issues (both environmental and social) preventing them from aquiring a decent education.
Many teachers are at cross purposes about setting higher expectations for low-achieving students, especially those who are disadvantaged. Simply put, teachers seek to reconcile the added student effort that higher expectations require with their concern that disadvantaged and low-ability children may be excessively burdened.
Burdens like a lack of two parents, parents who fail or refuse to get invoved in a childs life, Social environments where living on welfare and the prospect of easy money by selling drugs or what-nots become the norm and condone the thoughts in these students that the need for a higher state of education is over-rated. Some of these ills are as a direct result of lack of personal responisibilty of the parents, others by a lack of education by the parents themselves (because they were also caught up in this cycle) who cannot efectivley provide a learning environment for the kids at home.
All of these reasons and plenty more curtails a disadvantage childs ability or willingness to learn prompting teachers to customize their course outlines so that they can provide passing grades to otherwise failing students who refuse to learn [either voulentarily or not]; because if they do not they run the risk of loosing Federal or State funding or worse yet their own teaching careers.
I don't know what the answer is but it seems that it needs to start at home with some type of Adult Education for the Parents and governing protocols which hold the parents civily liable if they fail to provide their sons or daughters a learning theater which is condusive to their educational capabilities. Maybe we could call it "No Child left behind from Home".
posted by KraZyKat at 01:57 P.M. EST on Mon Sep 18, 2006 #
Yakrider
Not only is the school system failing to act they have marketed to the public that TPS is in continuous improvement when last year 16 schools were in academic emergency and 11 schools were in academic watch. Pickett has been in these categories for 7 straight years. When a school has been in AE for more than two years there are specific actions that must take place. It is too time consuming for me to write each action but I can give you the web site that addresses the actions. Each school in this category is supposed to have a School Improvement Plan in place.
Toledotalk 23
you are correct and school choice and tutoring are a part of the School Improvement Plan. But allowing students to transfer and then not providing transportation is like not allowing them to transfer. Having teachers tutor after school when it didn't take during school hours is another catch 22 for parents.
GuestZero
I am with you 100 percent. Mr. Myers has my vote.
Offshore
Not wanting to get into why students at Pickett are not learning and Harvard students are, I can say that all children want to learn and all children can learn. But when the school has failed for seven years and the School Improvement Plans (6) are not working that is cause for concern, especially when the public is not privy to the Improvement Plans.
McCaskey
Whether it is a national problem or just local I am concerned about my community and the community that my children grow up in. An uneducated population or an uneducated population in certain neighborhoods are cause for concern because an uneducated child is a child with no tools to interact with civilized society. Therefore these children are destined for the many prisons which is the new growth industry. Prisons don't hold criminals forever. Whereas my children may be learning, they will cross paths with children who are not learning and that is like mixing oil and water.
JeepMaker
If you consistently put out a bad Jeep, it doesn't matter if you have a wife and children at home or only have a pet. your job is gone. So it shouldn't matter if you have one parent, two or are being raised by grandparents, if the school consistently puts out a bad product you (the school) should be out the door. Instead you (the school) put out a bad product year after year with tax dollars and blame is placed at the door of the student. Adjustments need to be made in the curriculum, teaching staff, give power back to the principal or change the principal or any number of other things and see what happens. You can't keep doing the same thing and expect a different outcome.
The Blade needs to do an investigation into these issues that plague TPS just like they did the Noe Coingate. What about the TPS Achievementgapgate?
posted by purnhrt at 08:22 P.M. EST on Mon Sep 18, 2006 #
yakrider and any one else interested, here is the website for actions to be taken by schools such as Pickett.
http://www.ode.state.oh.us/GD/Templates/Pages/ODE/ODEDetail.aspx?page=3&TopicRelationID=1063&Content=15096
posted by purnhrt at 08:58 P.M. EST on Mon Sep 18, 2006 #
Purnhrt, you make accusations like you do, then say something like:
Not wanting to get into why students at Pickett are not learning and Harvard students are,
What the heck? Why don't you change your name to "Ostrich".
posted by Offshore at 05:24 A.M. EST on Tue Sep 19, 2006 #
Purnhrt, sorry to be so glib but I truly want to get to the root of the problem.
posted by Offshore at 08:23 A.M. EST on Tue Sep 19, 2006 #
Offshore
You sound sincere so here goes. Pickett School is an elementary school composed of 450 students of which 97% are ecnomically disadvantaged, African American students beginning with kindergarten. Beginning in kindgarten all children have a thirst for learning regardless of race color creed or how many parents they have at home. All parents have dreams and aspirations for their children whether that parent is the CEO of a 500 corporation or a prisoner. You ask any parent what they want for their children and they will almost always say the same thing. They want their child to have better than what they had.
Pickett school and Harvard begin with the same 5 year old, curious, trusting, eager to learn. What happens along the way where one school progresses and one school doesn't?
At Pickett Elementary no one is doing their job. On the ODE website all of the teachers have at least a masters degree. This is the 7th year on improvement status, the only goal met was attendance. So parents are sending their students to school at Pickett.
Are the teachers skilled in pedagogy? I believe that they are skilled but whether they chose to use this skill is up for question. Are the teachers in the subburbs better teachers? Yes and no. Teachers normally relate to what they know. If they don't know the students, cannot relate to the community and have no respect for the parents it doesn't matter how much knowledge they have, the problem is whether or not they want to part with that knowledge and give it to someone they may deem as not being worthy of being taught or maybe even think that they cannot be taught.
Is the cafeteria food devoid of nutrients? The students qualify for free and reduced lunch so yes the food is devoid of nutrients, sometimes spoiled. The lunch room (when I was there) had huge boxes of used clothing near where students were being made to stand and eat because of some infraction. No one saw anything wrong with this situation. This would not happen at Harvard.
Harvard has recess, Pickett doesn't. Harvard's parents are allowed to interact with the teachers, Picketts aren't.
Does the principal attend to duties? Principals in any TPS building, because of the TFT, have no power in the buildings. The buildings are run by the building committee.
Harvard does better because the teachers are committed to high academic standards for the students, high expectations and an environment that is conducive to learning.
What I feel is criminal at Pickett is the fact that the School Improvement Plans (an action that must take place after two years in academic emergency)have not been implemented and no action steps have taken place to improve the school. Otherwise the school would not be in it's seventh year of improvement.
Otherwise you would have to assume that the children can't and don't want to learn. I do not believe that, because I have been involved with families from Pickett and have had three children at Harvard. Parents at Harvard are respected by the teachers abd administration and Parents at Pickett are not.
posted by purnhrt at 09:51 A.M. EST on Tue Sep 19, 2006 #
Pickett School is an elementary school composed of 450 students of which 97% are ecnomically disadvantaged, African American students beginning with kindergarten.
Now we are getting somewhere.
At Pickett Elementary no one is doing their job.
Teachers normally relate to what they know. If they don't know the students, cannot relate to the community and have no respect for the parents it doesn't matter how much knowledge they have,
the problem is whether or not they want to part with that knowledge and give it to someone they may deem as not being worthy of being taught or maybe even think that they cannot be taught.
Are you telling me the teachers don’t want to teach?
Who sets the curriculum? And, since test scores drive achievement ratings, where is does the necessary communications between teacher and student breakdown?
Did not these teachers learn teaching methods, learning theory, modalities, technique etc. at the same place as all teachers? Do you presume they don’t care, or are there other barriers to this essential process?
What is the student’s responsibility in this process? You already said they were eager to learn.
The students qualify for free and reduced lunch so yes the food is devoid of nutrients, sometimes spoiled. The lunch room (when I was there) had huge boxes of used clothing near where students were being made to stand and eat because of some infraction. No one saw anything wrong with this situation. This would not happen at Harvard.
Since school meals are mandated to contain given nutritional value your comment suggesting that qualified student’s food is spoiled is interesting. Why does this happen to disadvantaged students?
Harvard has recess, Pickett doesn't. Harvard's parents are allowed to interact with the teachers, Picketts aren't.
Why is this? And, are you saying that parental involvement is important?
Very interesting points concerning the limited power of the principals!
Harvard does better because the teachers are committed to high academic standards for the students, high expectations and an environment that is conducive to learning
Again, why would teachers not commit to high standards?
Why is the environment not conducive to learning? Is it the actual building? Harvard is not exactly a modern marvel, so what makes the environment so different?
Parents at Harvard are respected by the teachers abd administration and Parents at Pickett are not.
What did Pickett parents do to deserve that?
posted by Offshore at 10:56 A.M. EST on Tue Sep 19, 2006 #
purnhrt,
you stated...
"If you consistently put out a bad Jeep, it doesn't matter if you have a wife and children at home or only have a pet. your job is gone. So it shouldn't matter if you have one parent, two or are being raised by grandparents, if the school consistently puts out a bad product you (the school) should be out the door"
I feel you analogy is flawed. You assume that the only reason JEEP might put out a bad product are the direct results of the company not providing the necessary resources to produce such. Jeep workers also share the burden and personal responsibility of producing a good product. A supportive family and education go a long way towards providing a Jeep employee with the skill sets (both mental and tangible)needed to produce that good product. This same supportive family environment for school children is a neccessity for insuring that the School is able to produce a good product [student]as the students themselves share the responsibility in creating it. The schools cannot and shoud not be held 100% liable for the success or failure of a childs education.
You also stated "...the only goal met was attendance. So parents are sending their students to school at Pickett." Are the parents sending their children to school for the right reasons? Are they being sent there to learn or to serve as a babysitting service? Or maybe it's because the law mandates it.
Teachers normally relate to what they know... the problem is whether or not they want to part with that knowledge and give it to someone they may deem as not being worthy of being taught or maybe even think that they cannot be taught Bull. I know of many educators and have teachers in the family. I feel (with few exceptions) that teachers have a legal, moral and ethical obligation to share their knowledge with students regardless of their social or economic status. To suggest otherwise is pure BS.
Harvard's parents are allowed to interact with the teachers, Picketts aren't Please explain. Do not parents of Pickett students have Parent Teacher conferences, are they not allowed to form PTA's or call up the school counselers to arrainge for one-on-one discussions about their children?
All parents have dreams and aspirations for their children whether that parent is the CEO of a 500 corporation or a prisoner. You ask any parent what they want for their children and they will almost always say the same thing. They want their child to have better than what they had. Point is some Parents take the needed steps and show the responsibilities to make sure their kids do succeed and can have a better life then they have. Others simply don't!
posted by KraZyKat at 11:03 A.M. EST on Tue Sep 19, 2006 #
Purnhrt:
While I agree with some of what you have said, you overgeneralize in the opposite direction.
Some of the teachers might not respect some of the parents, but it is no more a universal problem than black kids who don't want or are unable to learn. The problem is far more complex than teachers who are inadequate or students and parents who don't try hard enough.
Moreover, you say that all parents will say that they want more for their kids. In many cases that is true, but again it is by no means universal. There are far too many parents who either don't concern themselves with their kids' future or don't believe that a better future is possible. That is not a problem that stems from teachers or principals, it goes much deeper.
I am not saying that Toledo Public Schools are a shining example of a successful public system. What I am saying is that there is plenty of blame to go around for the failures, and more than you admit lands squarely in the lap of the students and the parents. Certainly we need to push for improvement, but how often have you been berated by a jerk of a boss? Did that inspire you to improve? Contructive criticism is beneficial, but calling names (not by you necessarily) and assigning blame only serves to alienate.
posted by MoreThanRhetoric at 11:04 A.M. EST on Tue Sep 19, 2006 #
Which is why I qualified my position as being only my position. Which is why I did not want to get into the whole teacher thing black student issue thing. My commentary was based on why the Toledo Blade took so much time with Tom Noe when there is a glaring problem that needs investigation because it harms children albeit black children and to me involves tax dollars and criminal activity. When a school has been rated as needing improvement for seven years and the one entity that could investigate is still on Tom Noe, my question was who is the real criminal? Over 4 million dollars have been, for last year alone, squandared, misspent or misappropriated and to me that is criminal, when laws have been broken that could pull this school out of its present condition.
posted by purnhrt at 12:17 P.M. EST on Tue Sep 19, 2006 #
My commentary was based on why the Toledo Blade took so much time with Tom Noe when there is a glaring problem that needs investigation
The Blade did an article 8-18-06 titled:
Number of failing schools nearly doubles
Here is en excerpt from that article:
Three chronic offenders in the state, including Toledo's Pickett Elementary, have been on the list for seven years, longer than any others.
So the Blade is not asleep at the presses when it comes to investigating.
posted by KraZyKat at 12:56 P.M. EST on Tue Sep 19, 2006 #
Since we're being so honest, let's take off the kid gloves.
In areas served by schools like Pickett, too many parents send their kids to school for 2 horrible reasons:
-free babysitting
-the kids get food
These 2 important "customer" expectations do not create an educational environment ... in fact, those expectations are destructive to an educational environment.
The babysitting aspect comes along from too many people having too many kids that they just didn't want or need in the first place. There's no way to fix that, since a Human life was created in each child and we must accomodate his/her existence. ("The live birth is a measure of worth.") These children are also wards of their parents, and the only way to fix that would be to implement social policies that would create race riots that we can only imagine. So unless you want an actual police state, that can't be fixed, either. Also, we can't push these children back onto their parents, since the Ohio state constitution mandates public education. So the schools are stuck with legions of problem children.
The food issue can't be fixed, either. Rioting would follow any attempt to cut off the supply of food to these children.
So, we are only ending up with criminal recruitment camps we laughingly call public schools (particularly those in economically-destroyed zones like inner cities). These children are largely starting out in a life-long criminal system that will continue to eat away at the middle class from underneath.
The Republicans have come up with an excellent way of handling these kids once they become adult incompetents, by creating an endless state of war that will absorb these losers as cheap labor, cannon fodder, and other sitting ducks. Hence, it's not surprising that these same Republicans have invoked NCLB (as well as unmeasured charter schools) in order to perpetuate the basic system that helps disadvantaged children become slaves, criminals or sacrifices.
We could start caring about each other again, but that leads to practices at best described as Socialism. Hence, that won't happen. America is strongly heading towards Fascism first. Any Socialism as I imply will have to follow the collapse of that Fascist state.
P.S. The school food issue is a complex one. There are indicators that the food we shove into the system is much more serving of corporate profits than it is of Human nutrition. We could be feeding our students much better, but that would require real food, prepared in real ways, by real cooks. Each step in that chain is arguably more expensive or bothersome than one governed in pre-packaged, low-bidder ways by some crony corporation. Ultimately, our population's students are only eating as progressively poorly as we eat our own meals ourselves: pre-packaged and minimally prepared; rich in oils, sugars, salts and chemicals; and overall cheaper. We're strongly prepared to treat our children in the same despicable manner as we treat ourselves. It can't be too shocking, then, that we're serving "shitfood" to students as a matter of course.
posted by GuestZero at 12:59 P.M. EST on Tue Sep 19, 2006 #
What Kat, More, Rooky and GZ are saying, if I may, is that it is very easy to spout statistics about the results of a problem but, the challenge seams to be, objectively indenting the problem.
And, the schools alone are not the
only culpable parties and, in fact, may be the least innocent entity in your exposé.
Instead, look at the horrible problem from a much larger point of view; as a societal/cultural one. The malady of poverty and all that it infers stands as the true culprit that infects large urban areas. Included are its schools.
To fix the problem means to begin at its roots which are, again, societal/cultural. There, we see that the reason for poor performance for a school is not necessarily within the school but within the immediate community in which the school is situated.
I always like to consider that someone had those precious children for five years before the schools got a hold of them. Then the schools have them 180 days for 7 hours.
What about the other 85 percent of the time?
It seems that the challenge is dealing with what can the schools do to offset the outside influences?
This from a previous thread.
Family background is critical.
It has long been thought and cited in the scholarly literature that academic achievement is influenced by the student’s background, financial resources and other influences outside of the school. For example, it has been believed that poorer students were exposed to high levels of lead poisoning, lack of eyeglasses, poor sleeping accommodations etc. as factors contributing to low academic success.
The literature shows that children from poverty do make yearly progress but at a much slower rate than their more affluent counterparts. In addition to the all too familiar advantages of parents with higher levels of education and being reared in surroundings that encourage academics like access to books, technology, educational vacations, it is thought that what a student does over summer break is also key.
Whereas middle –class students may attend camp and read more often, disadvantaged students may tend to stagnate.
A Johns Hopkins study on this subject which suggested that:
• Family is really important in that it is hard for schools to offset family disadvantage.
• Inner city kids placed in suburban schools do better.
• According to the Center on Education Policy: The better the housing, the better kids do on tests.
• Achievement is directly related to gaps children face outside the classroom.
• Lack of affordable housing makes student more transient therefore more apt to lose more progress.
• Middle-class parents may be more creative in the way they read to their children.
• Schools won’t change until the ills of poverty are corrected.
posted by Offshore at 01:14 P.M. EST on Tue Sep 19, 2006 #
Sorry edit: least guilty
posted by Offshore at 01:18 P.M. EST on Tue Sep 19, 2006 #
GuestZero
Not wanting to get into a gloves off confrontation I would ask you how many parents do you know who send their children to school for free babysitting or free food. If this is something that you have experienced I have other questions to ask about these parents.
The parents that I deal with who have children who go to these schools in the inner city are generally afraid to send their child to school but do so because it is a law, not because they want free babysitting.
posted by purnhrt at 01:19 P.M. EST on Tue Sep 19, 2006 #
Offshore
I would buy that except there are schools that work in high poverty areas.
posted by purnhrt at 01:23 P.M. EST on Tue Sep 19, 2006 #
You cannot even compare Pickett to Harvard. I subbed at Harvard and taught at Pickett. While I do think there are some underlying issues at Pickett I find it insulting to blame the Teachers. There has been been some active parents at Pickett, but unfortunately several of these parents opted for the vouchers and sent their child to Toledo Christian... I applaud them. The majority of students there come to school unprepared, return no homework and have no support system at home. I encourage some of the people who comment to volunteer in a school and see what many teachers are up against. We need community organizations to assist, such as the Lincoln Academy - Alpha Phi Boule Fraternity and Stewart Acdemy - The Links. It takes a village to raise a child! I do however admit there is room for improvement, however, it starts at the top.
posted by Teacher at 01:33 P.M. EST on Tue Sep 19, 2006 #
I would buy that except there are schools that work in high poverty areas.
Yes, and that should be encouraging! But, we cannot dismiss the facts and, statistical outliers hardly skew them. The Johns Hopkins study, as well as many, many others support these findings and it is the reluctance to accept the facts that creates the perpetuating blinders of blame and not solutions.
posted by Offshore at 02:13 P.M. EST on Tue Sep 19, 2006 #
purnhrt - I think you stuck your neck out in posting this matter. In kind - I'll tell you what my thoughts are on the matter.
I think that the schools in the areas with the lowest income and the highest crime rate get the least amount of funding. I think their school maintenance isn't the same as an area that is not challenged.
For instance - the grafitti on Scott the week before school - do you think that would have remained on the front of Harvard? Or Bowsher?
I think not. But that's my own opinion.
Bringing the parents in it's always the easiest route to blame the victim. This alleviates any necessity for anyone to solve any problems. If the parents were better, and the students were better - then the school would do things differently. This doesn't actually make sense - but alot of people feel that schools make administrative decisions based upon the 'quality' of their students.
Additionally there are a few posters here who think that the right to hold your opinion applies only to them But there are a lot of thoughtful posters who actually can debate without attacking. Some of them posted here in response to you.
I feel that way also - yet for a wholly different reason.
I feel that there is a significant lack of equity between the differing schools in our system. Case in point - the Ohio State Supreme Court has ruled that Ohio's funding system is unconstitutional in that the direct result of the funding system is that economically challenged areas receive less funding and offer a substantially lower quality of education. Now some of these folks here wish to argue and say that these parents are poor and don't care about their children and that's why this problem is occurring. I disagree. I think that in all schools, in all areas, you find negligent parents. The parent who brings down a 6 figure income and thinks that being a good parent is buying alot of stuff and making sure they are alive is a negligent parent.
In each of these areas you will also find parents who love their children passionately. They desire great things for them, and a solid education is high on those parents' list of priorities.
We've been over this - you cannot say that poverty causes people not to love their children. That is an unfair and incorrect bias.
What I'd like to see people dialogue about (and we have some educators here that post) is that since we have a Supreme Court ruling that this is, indeed, happening now in our schools in the state of Ohio - how do we begin to demand some equity?
Do we need to remind some of those who started in challenged homes and achieved greatness in their lives? Do these families really have to justify why they are as deserving as a child who happened to be born in a different neighborhood? If so, why?
All schools cannot be identical. But they ought to have a fair shake in the funding. Maybe alot of people don't remember this, but being poor in America isn't a crime.
posted by katie82640 at 03:48 P.M. EST on Tue Sep 19, 2006 #
RE GuestZERo's ealier comments,
again:
from the Blade website:
Number of failing schools nearly doubles; 82 in region fall short of standards for 2 years
Friday, August 18, 2006
The number of northwest Ohio schools that must offer tutoring and allow students to transfer nearly doubled in 2005-06 over the previous school year.
Three chronic offenders in the state, including Toledo's Pickett Elementary, have been on the list for seven years, longer than any others.
WHAT part of this story "refuses to cast the TPS in any bad light"
I think you're wrong. do you even read it
posted by toledotalk23 at 04:15 P.M. EST on Tue Sep 19, 2006 #
Katie82460
The annual expenditure per pupil at Pickett was $10,604 in 2004-2005. So it is not a money issue.
posted by purnhrt at 04:58 P.M. EST on Tue Sep 19, 2006 #
I'm new here, but I had to comment on my personal experience. My children have been in TPS for 4 years now. Their first 2 years at TPS were in an inner city school, filled with low income students and minorities. Those 2 years were a very positive experience.
What I seen from that school was an ENTIRE staff who worked together as a team to give children an education. I seen an administrative staff that were very involved in the students lives in a positive way, as well as in a disciplinarian way. The biggest thing that left an impact on me was how the staff worked together as one. They respected each other and that respect showed through how they taught and through their students.
The past 2 years have been outside of the inner city. I will not name their specific schools, but I will only say that they experience has not been as good. I can't and won't point a finger at any specific person or area, I simply see the exact opposite of what I seen in the inner city school. What I see is a staff that don't and won't work together and teachers who don't respect other teachers.
Perfect example would be a meeting last year with several of one of my childrens teachers, all in the same room. Some teachers had good things to say, some had not so good things, which was fine. What bothered me was seeing the teachers with the not so good comments roll their eyes or use other negative body talk while the teachers with good comments were talking. But the teachers with good comments paid attention and showed respect while the others were talking. It was VERY obvious the staff in that school does not work together as a whole. For them to disrespect another teacher in front of a childs parents only tells me that they do worse when parents aren't around!!
I personally feel that for any school to succeed it takes an entire staff to WANT to succeed. If they can't work together towards a common goal as one then they will not succeed at giving our children what they deserve. Until TPS does something at Pickett, or any other school with similar problems, to get the staff working together, the school will not succeed. They also need to get the school staff to start communicating with parents better. If parents are upset, they won't get involved with a school either.
posted by justsimplyholly at 06:20 P.M. EST on Tue Sep 19, 2006 #
I have an aunt who taught at Pickett for years (retired now), and I remember some of her horror stories of the lives some of these kids live (no coats in the winter, one parent who has to work leaving unattended kids after school resulting in homework not getting done, parents with addiction/lifestyle problems, extreme poverty, etc.). My aunt would collect coats, hats, gloves for these kids in the winter. More often than not the parents didnt show up for parent-teacher conferences, or were indifferent. I don't know personally, first hand - but my guess is that it doesnt matter how wealthy or poor a school is that matters so much as what's going on in that child's life outside of school. A very simplistic way of looking at it would be to look back on schools 100 years ago or more. All schools were poor, poor heating, supplies, etc. But the kids learned.
posted by starling02 at 07:24 P.M. EST on Tue Sep 19, 2006 #
starling
looking back a hundred years ago school was always a safe haven. Regardless of what was going on at home, school was always someplace where you could go and was able to learn something from a teacher who was vested in you. What you learned in school was a reflection of them.
I was poor when I grew up and so was my whole neighborhood. But still we learned because the teachers were vested in us. They knew our families. My parents were never involved in my school. The communication between the parent and school was the report card and in my house it had better been good.
Toledotalk23 and katie
Each student at Pickett was worth $10,604 last school year and at 457 students that equals 4 million, eight hundred fifty-six thousand and twenty-eight dollars ($4,856,028) and any way you look at it that is a lot of misspent money for the school to have gotten only 2 out of ten indicators. This is the part that I see as criminal, not the teachers, not the parents, not the students. We as taxpayers spent almost five million dollars at a school and got nothing in return. We need a better return for our investment, don't you think? Wouldn't you like to know where that money went? I do and I think the Blade should investigate this school like they investigated Tom Noe.
When I was g
posted by purnhrt at 08:39 P.M. EST on Tue Sep 19, 2006 #
Teacher
what is the difference between subbing and teaching. Therein may lie the problem.
posted by purnhrt at 08:46 P.M. EST on Tue Sep 19, 2006 #
purnhrt said: "Not wanting to get into a gloves off confrontation [...]"
You should want to. Our society is steadily converting schools into thug-recruitment and then -training institutions. While we ponder these problems, we still have to go to work, only to come home to see if our homes were broken into during the day while these thugs wandered the streets unchecked. And if we check them, we only railroad them into prisons, which will necessitate not only a semi-police-state but also increased taxation that hits us where we work as well. Care, and confront. If your skin is too thin for such a thing then simply knuckle down and thicken up.
If not, I'll start using sports metaphors on you, and you'll REALLY regret that! :^P
purnhrt said: "I would ask you how many parents do you know who send their children to school for free babysitting or free food."
Uh-uh. That tactic won't work, chum. We all largely operate off of a combination of widely variant reading and then personal anecdotes. When I bring up my general impressions, my lack of certified footnoting doesn't detract from my statements. You don't footnote your statements either, and I don't expect you to. Our combined experience is what we should be after. If that's not what you're after, then I can only ask what the hell you expected on this (or any) online forum.
As for my anecdotes, I personally know and knew 3 teachers who attained various levels of seniority in the TPS, and as well I know many parents whose students are TPS enrolled (although like myself these parents are mostly middle class). I draw a bit of my judgments from what they have said over the years. But the process of testimony continues; currently and notably, I'm regaled weekly by a specific grade-school teacher from one of the most trouble TPS schools. You can dismiss her tales all you want -- I don't, regardless of how uncomfortable her stories make me. Hers are classic tales of an educated, White, female teacher who lives in the distant 'burbs, who earns her living from teaching/herding ignorant, primarily Black children from Toledo's worst economic zones.
I do believe that I'm mature enough to put her tales into context, since that dichotomy is so strong. Or should I vet them all through YOU first?
purnhrt said: "If this is something that you have experienced I have other questions to ask about these parents."
I'm sure you do. As well, you should realize that if these schools started stocking cots and had nightly/weekend overseers, 100s to 1000s of children in Toledo would no longer go home, since their so-called parents, guardians and whatnot would summarily dump them on the school system full-time. Try asking around about THAT particular view.
Judas Priest, purnhrt! Do you realize just how many of these children don't actually have real homes to return to each afternoon? Why do you think they get sucked into gangs so easily? Why do you think their neighborhoods are overrun with children at all hours of the day and night? The percentage of students in Toledo's most troubled schools that come home to foster and non-parental care is staggering. It's like a different world ... at least from my middle-class perspective.
I only WISH that my information was inaccurate and in fact fantastical. But it's not. The "inner city" of Toledo's poorest neighborhoods is buried under a daily tsunami of ignorance, various addictions, a lack of moral fiber, almost most significantly: a deep financial despondency. I didn't have a particularly safe or wonderful childhood myself from where I lived on the edge of what was then called Larchmont Gardens apartments in West Toledo ... yet the hood is much, much worse. The teachers, parents, and police officers that I know all tell me roughly the same thing. The 'hood is a child-destruction zone.
purnhrt said: "The parents that I deal with who have children who go to these schools in the inner city are generally afraid to send their child to school but do so because it is a law, not because they want free babysitting."
I don't doubt that that factor is there. I certainly can't claim that every parent in the inner city is uncaring of their children to the point that "free babysitting" is the only issue. But it is still a significant issue. Look at the so-called welfare reform of the 1990s. We only tossed a lot of single mothers into the working poor, which put enormous social pressure on their family structures (such as they were). So, economically at least, free babysitting looks damned attractive to the single, working mother who lives along Dorr Street. She may start out regretting it, but work soon dulls most of her social senses and she just ends up accepting it all.
TELL ME I'M WRONG, purnhrt. I so want to be wrong that it's making my eyeballs throb. :^/ {sound of popped cap on aspirin bottle}
posted by GuestZero at 12:46 A.M. EST on Wed Sep 20, 2006 #
I think that the schools in the areas with the lowest income and the highest crime rate get the least amount of funding.
Throwing money at the problem: constitutional or not, there is a calculation to provide additional funds for districts that have a high percentage of economically disadvantaged students called Disadvantaged Pupil Impact Aid (DPIA)
Among the highest per-pupil district costs in Ohio are:
Urban Low SES, high poverty areas.
Large Urban Average SES, high poverty areas
and Major Urban Very high poverty areas.
Source: Ohio Department of Education.
Incidentally, concerning technology: Ohio ranks high in its computer-to-student ratio but, the Center for Childrern & Technology (CCT)reveals that lower income students have less connectivity at home and rely on teachers more than family and peers for help than middle-income kids do.
posted by Offshore at 08:56 A.M. EST on Wed Sep 20, 2006 #
purnhrt - you may think that more than 10 grand was spent on each child in that school - but I don't.
Short story - my belief is that those students are treated differently. I think that there is a belief that a lower standard of performance and scholastic atmosphere will be accepted b/c of the neighborhood the school resides in.
This is what I take issue with. If you say it isn't the case - you may be right. But my experience makes me believe that differences in socio-economics on a neighborhood by neighborhood basis - result in a very different quality product.
The Supreme Court agreed - so I must be missing something here -
But we keep discussing the parents here. How exactly is it the parents have an impact on what is taught - the books that are purchased and what the level of customer service is - INSIDE THE SCHOOL?
Or is there a presumption here that all the parents are employees of the school? Again - missing something because to me it's akin to a manager of a retail store saying - 'well my customers are all (fill in the blank - jerks, unaccountable....poor) - so I'll just cut out delivering any quality product and drop our customer service policies'.
WTH?
posted by katie82640 at 11:45 A.M. EST on Wed Sep 20, 2006 #
I would buy that except there are schools that work in high poverty areas.
Purnhrt: I work nights and was unable to give your statement the full credit it deserved:
I have cited studies indicting outside influences as factors contributing to poor achievement, now it is time to examine the third part of what I call the holy triumvirate of education: student, parents, and the school.
Yes, as I said that is wonderful that some urban schools are reporting gains. But, on the down side, reports skew perceptions. Reports are only reports and often don’t include study methodology. Much of what I have read continues to indicate that the “better” of the schools within the urban districts make achievement gains far easier than the rest and therefore “carry” the district. Bear in mind that even in the so-called worst areas students do gain, just not at the desirable rate.
There are many organizations that dedicate huge amounts of energy and resources addressing the problem. And as you said, many of them work but, the underlying forces that create the problems are also addressed within the solution. That said, TPS is a blameworthy component. District personnel must be dreadfully aware of the various influential factors that make for gains and frustrated that their efforts haven’t worked at Pickett to satisfaction.
Educational researchers and district personnel alike hypothesize, theorize, test, re-test, compile, intervene, analyze, set and re-set goals, adjust curriculum, retain and select quality staff, assess class and building size, adopt and adjust program selection, create collaborative and cooperative learning environments, map performance as well as what educators like to call “root cause analysis” which should include external factors.
I believe it was you in another thread that mentioned a gifted minority teacher candidate whom did not have the money for Praxis. That, is also one of the social ills of poverty that affects urban education. Urban parents don’t love their children any less than they do in the burbs; but social conditions have made it less conducive to formal learning.
GZ is correct in his conclusion that the hood is a child destruction zone not a construction of learning zone. In it, we have a battle zone between the two forces.
posted by Offshore at 12:11 P.M. EST on Wed Sep 20, 2006 #
Getting back to the original point - I know that the Blade has not taken the same kind of investigative approach which identifies issues and helps all of us get information that we can use to create a community consensus that action is necessary. Why do I know? Because I have suggested to Blade reporters for years areas that need scrutiny and which the public needs to know about. One that I have suggested a number of times is an investigation of TPS' charter schools. These schools appear to be holding areas for students that the district believes will hold down their test scores and graduation rates. One area that needs to be looked at is the number of kids that sign up for a virtual class through the Phoenix Academy versus how many students actually complete the course. You know that the Blade has not been shy about looking at other charter schools. Why does TPS get a free pass? There are other issues that need to be examined, but my post would go on and on.
The Blade for years has had a virtual monopoly on what gets to this community. For some reason they have been in bed with the old board and were particularly enamored of the spin doctor called Sanders. I could give you all kinds of corroborating evidence that suggests an "alliance" of some type that deprives this community of the information they need to know about what is happening in TPS and makes it extremely difficult to hold this institution accountable. And please don't ask me to post anymore information on why - I'm not going to do it at this time. I'll leave it to each of you to believe me or not for the time being.
Anyone think the Blade has done a good job? Yes, they sometimes cover stories that are unflattering to TPS, but it’s mostly because someone else is driving the process and they have to report on it. Even then, have you noticed the adverbs and adjectives used to describe groups and people? Bury the messenger and maybe the message won't get heard.
Go through the posts and information at tpsinfo.com and ask yourself how much of that has been in the Blade. Come to think of it they did not cover the issues involving the rear facade at Scott.
posted by sflagg at 12:34 P.M. EST on Wed Sep 20, 2006 #
In it, we have a battle zone between the two forces.
Ouch!!! posted by Offshore at 01:11 P.M. EDT on Wed Sep 20, 2006 I agree with this statement. One idea though - we have a battle zone with two fronts. This isn't a single issue problem. And to focus on one as the culprit is almost to absolve the other.
We have cultural issues at work in our community that don't have good intentions for our kids. The schools, conversely and separately, aren't turning out a quality problem. These issues co-exist and both need addressing. The cultural issues in no way absolve the district of providing a quality product and good customer service.
Sflagg - we're seeing the Blade reap the reward of their heavy handed and partisan tactics. How could anyone think that Blade has done a good job as a community news provider? A journalist reports these things, who, what, when and where. The why is an editorial matter - but the Blade apparently never took that class. They editorialize as a replacement for reporting news. And they've been very successful in harming the community by doing it.
posted by katie82640 at 01:06 P.M. EST on Wed Sep 20, 2006 #
Short story - my belief is that those students are treated differently. I think that there is a belief that a lower standard of performance and scholastic atmosphere will be accepted b/c of the neighborhood the school resides in.
A key to working with inner city students is to keep standards high, but If a 4th grader can only perform at a 2nd grade level, it automatically starts the lower (2nd grade) standard.
But my experience makes me believe that differences in socio-economics on a neighborhood by neighborhood basis - result in a very different quality product.
There is a high correlation between SES and academic achievment but not a perfect one.
But we keep discussing the parents here.
Parents have a legal and moral obligation to their children. The frame of reference the child grows to know as their world view is certainly a result of their parents or guardian's surroundings.
How exactly is it the parents have an impact on what is taught - the books that are purchased and what the level of customer service is - INSIDE THE SCHOOL?
Since the school is a public entity, the public (parents) should have a high degree of say-so. This is generally done by but not limited to the officials they elect.
And to focus on one as the culprit is almost to absolve the other.
No, of course not, But it is a matter of degree.
The cultural issues in no way absolve the district of providing a quality product and good customer service.
Correct, not absolve but they can greatly, slow, and prevent a districts efforts.
posted by Offshore at 01:44 P.M. EST on Wed Sep 20, 2006 #
sflagg
thanks for bringing the subject back to my original point.
Katie
Really, the Ohio Department of Education's website gives all kinds of statistics about individual schools. Pickett's annual expenditure per pupil was $10,604. Now how that money was spent is another story. Which to me should be a good reason for an investigation. All you say is true but whether at Harvard or Pickett the expenditure is the same but the outcome is a lot different.
GuestZero
Whatever your socio-economic lot in life is all families are going through the same issues. All communities are child destructive zones not just the "hood." Whether it be from a suburban soccer mom or an inner city mom they are equal as far as the destruction of children is concerned, remember Susan Smith? It is just a little harder for an inner city mom to keep it together for the outside world to see. They are heavily scrutinized by any agency that needs the income that a dysfunctional family will bring. I digress, but
drugs, alcohol, incest, spousal abuse, child abuse, infidelity, divorce, step parents, babymama drama exists in all neighborhoods, yes, even in Ottawa Hills. Bad behavior is not endemic to inner city neighborhoods.
From my glasses I see that most child molesters and serial rapists and murderers, mass murderers etc. are white men from white rural America. Remember Tim McVeigh? So it is not good to dump on inner city residents until you look at the whole picture.
posted by purnhrt at 04:15 P.M. EST on Wed Sep 20, 2006 #
Bad behavior is not endemic to inner city neighborhoods
Endemic...maybe not
Pandemic...absolute
posted by KraZyKat at 06:19 P.M. EST on Wed Sep 20, 2006 #
All you say is true but whether at Harvard or Pickett the expenditure is the same but the outcome is a lot different. <--purnhrt
This is the outcome that concerns me.
I believe that every child, no matter whether they are born into wealth or poverty - to loving or neglectful parents deserve everything a community can offer to them. A child cannot control where they are born or to whom.
It is up to each child to take the opportunity or not - but it ought to be there and available for them. Many children buck great disabilities to rise to great things in their lives. Abusive, absent or substance dependent parents - poverty, racism - and they should have the opportunities to rise above their circumstance as adults.
Our children, our own and those around us, are the single enduring thing we leave on this planet as an enduring legacy. Buildings, wealth, homes - hell even cities come and go but our lineage is our legacy. We'd ought to be offering them our best - not this.
posted by katie82640 at 08:42 P.M. EST on Wed Sep 20, 2006 #
Katie82640
Well said.
posted by purnhrt at 09:59 P.M. EST on Wed Sep 20, 2006 #
Just to throw out there...Dr. Sanders and his crew, however reviled by others, have done a fantastic job overall in the Toledo Public School district. TPS is the best urban school district in the state, according to recent reports, and had been experimenting with many new academy formats to meet the ever-evolving needs of their constituents. There is much work to be done, and mistakes were made, but they should be commended for what they had done, and for those that support the "three for change", remember that their change is not necessarily better, and in fact has thus far been to the detriment of the district. Majorly.
And of interest might be the very nature of schooling itself. If you think of how school is done today, it is pretty carbon-copy of how school was done 30 years ago when I was a kid, and the same as it was 30 years before that when my parents were kids. There aren't many institutions that have changed so little in the past 100+ years (and definitely not industries), despite what is currently known about how people learn and what kinds of jobs will be available in the future. The very nature of NCLB, with it's focus on high-stakes testing and verbage of "research-based practice", itself goes against what is known about best practices in education. Accountability is important, absolutely, but the types of assessment used are out whack with the purpose of the educational system. Continual assessment, with recursive feedback into the system, is key to the educational process. Once-a-year testing that determines funding, progress, etc., is not....
Just some things I think about at 1:30 in the morning...
posted by wombat at 12:33 A.M. EST on Thu Sep 21, 2006 #
Purnhrt, surely you jest! :^P {thhhbbppt!}
purnhrt said: "Whatever your socio-economic lot in life is all families are going through the same issues."
No, we're not. Even raised as a lower-middle-class White kid in West Toledo, I was never ("never" = 0.01%) hungry, unclothed, cold, damp or injured, and I never had to deal with: dodging bullets, attending a funeral for a sibling or other relative dead by violence, being moved from foster home to foster home, avoiding drug dealers or making connections with same, etc.
I didn't have the best childhood, since my childhood was devoid of love (compassion, intimacy, understanding) and a father, but compared to what's going on commonly in the 'hoods of Toledo, I lived like a prince. In comparison, I had it good.
purnhrt said: "All communities are child destructive zones not just the "hood." Whether it be from a suburban soccer mom or an inner city mom they are equal as far as the destruction of children is concerned[.]"
You can't seriously be suggesting that, say, Toledo's stable neighborhoods (like much of West Toledo, etc.) are anywhere near child-destructive as the ghettoes/'hoods are. Even allowing for Uncle George coming over to feel up his niece at Christmas in a nice white-painted suburban home, the incidences of selling crack, slappin' hoes, bustin' a cap in someone's ass, and other wild examples of violent criminality are MUCH MUCH LESS in the stable neighborhoods. In addition, stable neighborhoods are not subject to the extreme hopelessness and welfare that is so prevalent in the ghettoes/'hoods. The bungalow with the white-picket fence was an icon for family stability in America (albeit unsustainable due to the low price of gasoline and other fuels in that era).
purnhrt said: "From my glasses I see that most child molesters and serial rapists and murderers, mass murderers etc. are white men from white rural America. Remember Tim McVeigh? So it is not good to dump on inner city residents until you look at the whole picture."
What percentage of all prisoners in America are Black? Even considering that enforcement efforts tend to concentrate upon social, economic and racial areas, hence disproportionately affect the least classes in each area, it's clear that violent and young Black men are America's Number One criminal class. This can't be much of a surprise since we've tolerated the formation of 'hoods and bad schools that promote many of the conditions that lead to the young Black male becoming violent, then institutionalized, then rather thoroughly acclimated to his despondent condition.
The ghetto is a big problem. It's not the only problem, since a child can be shot, drugged, beaten, arrested or molested in Ottawa Hills as well as along Dorr Street, but statistics clearly show that the Dorr Street child is much more likely to have one or more of these things done to him. We can't properly deal with the ghetto problem if we spend our time assuming that it's no more or less a problem as with any neighborhood structure in the American range.
Basically, the sustainable middle class is what most Americans should consider to be ideal, hence something to work towards or at least admire. The 2-income family isn't a part of that. Neither is the 1-parent family. Neither is the McMansion bought on an IO ARM with no money down. Neither is the shitty rental house. Neither is the Tom-and-Bernadette-Noe social set. Neither is the hood-rat culture. I could go on, but surely you can see my point by now. We should reject the criminal or irresponsible underclass as well as overclass, to arrive at a population of strong self-sufficiency, self-worth and self-image.
posted by GuestZero at 12:42 A.M. EST on Thu Sep 21, 2006 #
wombat - surely you jest! Dr. Sanders and his crew have left this district in major distress – academically and financially! In fact, it was his antics over the last 8 months before he mercifully ended it along with help from his henchman, Larry Sykes, who is responsible for the dysfunction you now see in how the board operates. In addition, Mr. Sykes has become a major impediment to any progress by the board (more on this subject at a later date as we gather and post information). You also seem to forget that the 2 of 3 members of 3 for Change that were elected do not form a majority of the board so they can’t do anything and are blocked from making any changes by the 3 for Children coalition that was formed in June (illegally I might add) by the other 3 board members who constitute a majority voting block. I believe you must blame 3 for Children for the performance of the district to this point – with major emphasis on the 2 holdover board members of Sykes and Barnett.
TPS is not the best urban district in the state and you would have to go back to the 2003 report card to be even close on this one. As of the last report card, the performance index for Akron - 85.8, Canton - 83, Cincinnati - 81.5 and Toledo - 80.4. I believe that puts them at 4th of 8. It takes an 80 to be ranked as Continuous Improvement so Toledo skinned by on the hair of its chin! Of the 8 urban districts that TPS loves to compare themselves with, only Cleveland had a smaller increase in its performance index than Toledo last year. So now they are 7th of 8. There are other ways to look at district performance and TPS does not stack up well. (See last year’s report card analysis – we have one for this year in the works and it should be posted soon.) In 2004-05, Akron had an 80.4 to Toledo's 76.5. TPS made continuous improvement on the Adequate Yearly Progress indicator and would have been in Academic Watch last year based upon the broader performance index measure. Even in their best year in 2003-04 when TPS first achieved continuous improvement based upon the AYP standard, Akron had a PI of 75.3 as compared to Toledo at 75. So over the past 3 years the TPS ranking has fallen and at least 3 other urban districts have higher sustained progress than TPS.
Now why would anyone be happy with being the best urban district? Do you really think being best of bottom of the barrel is much to crow about? Sure we have all heard that you can’t compare TPS to other districts because of the demographics, etc. but TPS does not compete for students with Cleveland, Cincinnati, etc.
And as for TPS's experiments with "academies" - well that is another subject, but I will say that along with uniforms and TPS charter schools it was just more smoke and mirrors to keep us from asking the hard questions about academic performance.
wombat – you are exactly the kind of person that Sanders loved – you swallowed all the spin based upon the facts “cherry picked” by his staff and dutifully reported by the Blade – his cohort in the spin. I will also say that more revelations about how TPS has operated are on their way. I’d love to see your response in say 12 months from now..
And one more for you wombat, do you even know what kinds of “change” the 3 for change candidates were talking about? Let’s start with their first premise – open, transparent board operations. The problems you are seeing stem from their commitment to this issue as in the past the board would go into “illegal” executive sessions to discuss any controversial subject. The problems you are seeing now were there before but none of the prior board members dared break their vow of public silence. Anita Lopez broke that silence after she won election to the county recorders office. Larry Sykes bitterly attacked her after her comments that Sanders and Sykes were more interested in “taking steps to get good headlines” as opposed to making actual educational improvements. Ms. Lopez had a number of other pointed and critical remarks for which Mr. Sykes said in an infamous Toledo Journal article, “She reminds me of a dog that can’t pass a fire hydrant without urinating on it.” Sometimes change is exactly what you want as in resign Larry Sykes!
One must be careful in "buying" all the headlines printed in "One of America’s Great Newspapers".
posted by sflagg at 02:28 A.M. EST on Thu Sep 21, 2006 #
GuestZero
It is thinking like yours that gives American's a bad name all over the world. This is not where I was trying to go when I started my commentary "Will the real criminal please stand up Tom Noe, TPS or the Toledo Blade." A quote by Randall Robinson says it all as far as me and mine are concerned, "Until America accepts the fact that the book never closes on massive unredressed social wrongs America has no future as one people."
You seem to be the kind of guy who accepts the fact that America is divided and is willing to live in a divided country and that is fine with me but give me the same opportunities as the people on your side of the street, just like you were given.
Now can you get a little focused on why the Blade will not do an indepth reporting on what is really going on at TPS? Or at least stop the "inner city blues versus me and my middle class neighbors are so great."
posted by purnhrt at 08:40 A.M. EST on Thu Sep 21, 2006 #
It must be time to go fishing cause you just opened a big ol can of worms. But since we are discussing inner-city education we should consider inner city racial demographics, school performance and diverted funds for security. This is all very much related as it becomes a barrier to formal learning.
purnhrt said: "Whatever your socio-economic lot in life is all families are going through the same issues."
All communities are child destructive zones not just the "hood." Whether it be from a suburban soccer mom or an inner city mom they are equal as far as the destruction of children is concerned[.]"
According to U.S. Department of Justice statistics, twenty-five percent of young black men possess criminal records, either in jail, on parole or on probation. For the most part, murder victims are killed by a member of their same race. But, although blacks comprise only 12 percent of the population, blacks commit 54 percent of murders, 42 percent of forcible rapes, 59 percent of robberies and 38 percent of aggravated assaults.
In the case of interracial violent crime, blacks are 50 times more likely to commit violent crimes against whites than whites against blacks.
The U.S. Department of Justice’s National Crime Victimization Survey lists the frequency of certain crimes. One category is interracial crimes.
An Agency publication during the late 90s reported on data collected in 1994 a reverse and perfect correlation. During that year, there were about 1,700,000 interracial crimes, of which 1,276,030 involved whites and blacks. In 90 percent of the cases, a white was the victim and a black was the perpetrator, while in 10 percent of the cases it was the reverse." For the year 2000, according to another Agency survey, blacks committed over 1.5 million violent crimes in 2000, with half of those involving white victims.
Why are there more black men in the age cohort that is considered to be traditional college age 18-23, in jail than college when it cost twice as much to incarcerate at a state penitentiary than educate at a state university?
According to John U. Ogbu, anthropology professor at the University of California at Berkeley, different priorities, such as more concern among black students for non-academic activities, such as sports, entertainment, and hanging out with friends in person or on the phone.
“But behind the different priorities of black students -- and of their parents -- is a pervasive suspicion and hostility to the white school authorities and to the whole culture which they perceive as a white culture that they must resist as a threat to black "identity.".
Source: Race Matters - Why Are Black Students Lagging John U. Ogbu
posted by Offshore at 09:20 A.M. EST on Thu Sep 21, 2006 #
Offshore
I thought we were talking "inner city." Are we talking Black versus White or are we talking inner city versus suburbs as it relates to social conditions? Please make it clear to me because these are two different distinct issues.
posted by purnhrt at 09:28 A.M. EST on Thu Sep 21, 2006 #
We're talking about Picket School which you said was mainly black, as are most inner-city schools. We are talking about yours and my money being spent and we are talking about a horrible thing called racism and how the ills of poverty have affected minorities in particular. And, the fact that all these things are certainly variables to consider when we try to figure out the disconnect between the teacher-learner communications process that cause poor academic performance.
Yes TPS is culpable but do think they don’t want success? Sure there are bad teachers, admins, etc, but we cannot ignore all of the expensive factors.
Do you think that a new school board is going to produce a magic bullet that will offset affects that began long, long before there was ever a Toledo? The valid, scholarly data suggests that it is a universal inner-city school problem and that the poor little kids come to the school with barriers to learning because of the horrible, unsafe and crime ridden surroundings GZ describes.
posted by Offshore at 10:02 A.M. EST on Thu Sep 21, 2006 #
ok - offshore. I think you have an idea of how you think things 'should' work. I did too. Then I went to the school board meetings. I suggest you do same or watch the video if you can stomach my camera skills.
But you are really out of touch with the realtime TPS's situation.
Point in case - the last school board meeting before Mr. Burns left - were you aware that he stood and addressed his 'shame' - in response to Mr. Sykes discussing 'customer service' and 'educational issues' all of a sudden? That he used the words 'we should be ashamed' and 'I AM ASHAMED'?
I think you're possibly out of touch with what's actually happening here...
Were you aware that the man actually looked Mr. Sykes right in the eye and said that two years ago the district didn't buy any books? That he was ashamed that the budget he managed didn't include ONE SINGLE TEXTBOOK?
And once again, do you really relate this to somehow people who live in the inner city: 1. must be black, 2. must not give a crap about their kids and 3. are responsible for the poor adminstrative decisions for more than a decade at the school board building?
I'm just not seeing how your logic is hanging together here - can you help me understand this?
posted by katie82640 at 11:26 A.M. EST on Thu Sep 21, 2006 #
offshore
Do I think TPS doesn't want success? I wonder. One avenue of building success is the vehicle called the "School Improvement Plan" which each school has to build and implement after two years of failure. In the case of Pickett there have been six School Improvement Plans and still the school is in it's 7th year of failure. So I can come up with only two conclusions. 1. The School Improvement Plans are either not being done or done haphazardly or 2. Black inner city children either can't or don't want to learn due to whatever reasons.
I reject #2 because I am surrounded by 10 beautiful black children from all of the conditions named by GuestZero, from a child having no parent, to children having both parents in the home and working. Among these children are children from drug addicted parents, from prostitutes, from prisoners, alcoholics and dysfunctional families, I guess what GuestZero would call "Hood Rats." These children are loved by their parents are doing very well in school and you can see the desire to learn in their eyes. Of course none of these children have ever attended a TPS school (except for two and only for a brief minute).
I see that same desire to learn in children when they first start in a TPS school as wide eyed eager to learn children. That fire is quickly burned out and by second grade signs of PTSS sets in.
Again I ask the question who is the real criminal, Tom Noe, TPS or the Blade. Mr. Noe is in the Blade again today.
posted by purnhrt at 12:34 P.M. EST on Thu Sep 21, 2006 #
As usual purnhrt - when you pass out the blame - there's always a nice helping for everybody at the table.
As a forward look toward problem solving - I'll comment that I likedalot of what the two new school board members (sorry - I guess I think of S. Steel as one of the old guard - I refer to Fisher and Torres) had to say about an agenda. Due to the fighting and subvertive tactics by the old guard this year,(again, now joined by Mr. Steel) no forward progress can be made at this time - unless of course you have no desire to talk about curriculum, student achievement and are willing to address large construction contracts, administrative exit packages and pay raises or new administration hires. The old guard likes these things...passionately.
Barring coming up with some short term solutions we'd ought to work very VERY hard at the two seats that will be coming up for election on the school board next year. We need two more like minded folks who have a true desire to reign in spending and shift the focus over to academics and meeting the kids needs. The teachers and school administrators have alot of potential as a help in problem solving - but of course, they're not even permitted to speak at a school board meeting. Heaven forbid they'd offer some solutions from inside the schools...
posted by katie82640 at 12:47 P.M. EST on Thu Sep 21, 2006 #
But you are really out of touch with the realtime TPS's situation.
Point in case - the last school board meeting before Mr. Burns left - were you aware that he stood and addressed his 'shame' - in response to Mr. Sykes discussing 'customer service' and 'educational issues' all of a sudden? That he used the words 'we should be ashamed' and 'I AM ASHAMED'?
I think you're possibly out of touch with what's actually happening here...
Were you aware that the man actually looked Mr. Sykes right in the eye and said that two years ago the district didn't buy any books? That he was ashamed that the budget he managed didn't include ONE SINGLE TEXTBOOK?
I’ve repeatedly said that TPS is culpable and I agree I went to a larger, root problem picture.
Now you are getting to specifics about the questions I asked days ago concerning the disconnect.
Katie that pisses me off too.
And once again, do you really relate this to somehow people who live in the inner city:
Yes as it is a mostly inner city phenomenon
p1. must be black,
Not always but demographics bear this out.
2. must not give a crap about their kids
In an above post I said this: "Urban parents don’t love their children any less"
I’m looking at a larger more horrble picture and have cited at least two refernences.
purnhrt made reference to similarities in neighborhoods. The inner city of almost any city is comprised of mainly black individuals who have become deeply entrenched in the ills of poverty described in the Johns Hopkins study I cited many posts ago which include crime.
Also cited was:
Race Matters - Why Are Black Students Lagging John U. Ogbu
A Johns Hopkins study on this subject which suggested that:
• Family is really important in that it is hard for schools to offset family disadvantage.
• Inner city kids placed in suburban schools do better.
• According to the Center on Education Policy: The better the housing, the better kids do on tests.
• Achievement is directly related to gaps children face outside the classroom.
• Lack of affordable housing makes student more transient therefore more apt to lose more progress.
• Middle-class parents may be more creative in the way they read to their children.
• Schools won’t change until the ills of poverty are corrected.
Prnhrt I've also stated at least twice that even the worst schools do make gains.
I know very, very well, many black students that learn well.
I've also buried many of them.
Look up recent reports concerning Boston and Miami schools for encouragment and forward them to TPS officials
posted by Offshore at 12:53 P.M. EST on Thu Sep 21, 2006 #
Purnhrt said: "It is thinking like yours that gives American's a bad name all over the world."
Purnhrt, you'll just have to put your emotion aside with addressing this topic.
I can sympathize with young criminals while also holding them accountable for their actions. Call it "tough love" -- which coincidentally is an ideology that is very much missing in Toledo. I have found waaay too many instances where people were tough, leading to viciousness, or loving, to the point of self-abuse. These stupidities will have to stop one way or another.
Purnhrt said: "This is not where I was trying to go when I started my commentary[.]"
That's because we get off on topical tangents and I'm always willing to follow those as far as they will go, since people tend to rely on one-liners and assumptions in meta-topics that hardly ever get questioned. That is the heart of the media propaganda system in the USA.
We cannot advance as a culture by acting, or not acting, without public discourse. I'm sorry if this kind of thing annoys you, but it's the very annoyance that signals to people like me that we're generally on the right track with pursuing such discussions.
Purnhrt said: "You seem to be the kind of guy who accepts the fact that America is divided and is willing to live in a divided country and that is fine with me but give me the same opportunities as the people on your side of the street, just like you were given."
There's a world of difference between accepting and acknowledging. We DO live in a divided nation along many dimensional lines (wealth, education, social connections, race, geography, skillsets, etc.). I'm willing to live in such a society since I have no choice otherwise. When I get up tomorrow morning, the 'hood will still be there no matter what I do today. Of course, this is not an absolute statement, as it's just a matter of timescale, in that what I do today may help ensure the 'hood dissolves in a generation or two. But it WILL be there tomorrow.
Purnhrt said: '' Now can you get a little focused on why the Blade will not do an indepth reporting on what is really going on at TPS? Or at least stop the "inner city blues versus me and my middle class neighbors are so great." ''
The funny thing is that you already answered that. Those who have followed the "news news" will have noted that media outlets have transformed themselves into serving rather narrow constituents. In short, the ideal (or majority) news consumer is generally a White middle-class female. Newspapers and particularly television cater to this primary constituency. Hence, they will tend to indulge in reporting or creating sensationalism and fear -- like violent crimes over nonviolent crimes, fashion and health tips, huge avoidance of national financial topics, "family friendly" and other "values" topics, etc.
The Blade is not really talking to the residents of the 'hood. The newspaper is talking instead to the largely White, trendy and middle-class people who almost always avoid the 'hood. From that, we can see that the Blade is not going to put the TPS's situation into a spotlight beaming from the ground upward. The spotlight instead shines on it from above -- where Sanders, Sykes, Silver, Barnett, Foley and all the rest live.
Put more pointedly, the Blade isn't going to sell fiscal conservatism to a society gone bonkers with fiscal liberalism. The TPS is an expensive school system that is as much a luxury as is each $200K+ home that too many people are making payments on. The Blade's current function is to convince that mid-30s White female professional or mother to continue spending like there's no tomorrow. Exposing the TPS's problems (which are largely financial, when you think about it) would ruin that function.
posted by GuestZero at 01:10 P.M. EST on Thu Sep 21, 2006 #
GuestZero
My bad on your last paragraph.
posted by purnhrt at 02:10 P.M. EST on Thu Sep 21, 2006 #
offshore - I missed your two comments above. Thank you for repeating.
Social ills will never be cured - it's a part and parcel of the issue of the human condition.
But for a system to be as well funded as our school system is - it should be offering a quality education to every student. Regardless of whether they appreciate it or not.
That's my big complaint. Not that I do not recognize socio-economic conditions. I surely do. I've also been to far too many funerals for young people.
None of that is an excuse for non-performance on the schools part.
posted by katie82640 at 04:23 P.M. EST on Thu Sep 21, 2006 #
I jest not sflagg! Well, only partly-
I appreciate your thoughtful comments. Your passion for education comes through, and I applaud that. I do not applaud your assumptions, though - I'm glad you think I just get my information from the Blade, "swallow it whole", and that I'm the "kind of person Sanders likes". Pretty patronizing, BTW. Akin to the things you accuse others of on the board. I have advanced degrees in Education, and have been around the Toledo Public School districts for years, pre-, during, and now post-Sanders.
I stand (er, sit?) corrected, sort of. My main point isn't that Toledo is the best, rah, rah (BTW, thanks for catching my error) - it's that Toledo does compare well with the major metro areas of the state. Comparing the PI of Toledo to Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton, Cincinnati, and Akron, it ranks out behind Akron but about on-par with Cincinnati and Columbus, give or take a point. Looking at the simple comparison of TPS scores with the "similar districts" item on the report card, they fare better than average up through sixth grade (what happens then, I wonder? Thoughts anyone?). There are major issues with urban (and, btw, rural) education, but Toledo Public has held up well. With a loooong way to go, absolutely.
You are also stacking statistics in an interesting way, and one that reveals one of the quirks of AYP. Well, one of the many quirks. First, your ranking schools based on year-to-year improvements in PI score is an important indicator of progress, but blindly comparing school's "improvement" paints a skewed picture of how the districts are doing. For example, looking at Dayton City Schools, they improved their PI by around 11 index points! For an overall score of 73ish...So their improvement is great, but their overall quality is low. It's like a Yugo putting a side airbag in and stating that it did more to improve it's safety record over the last year than any other car - I still wouldn't want to drive one!
The other quirks revolve around issues such as the criteria for AYP (reading and math as the only counting core subjects - what a joke!).
I think you undersell efforts that many of the teachers, parents, and administrators have done with places such as Toledo Technology Academy, Grove Patterson Academy, the TAPESTRIES science initiative, UT3 grant program, etc. There have been a number of very successful initiatives put in place by some of the people who have vacated, forged through building relationships with many passionate educators in the community. For a district the size of Toledo to be able to successfully secure the amount of federal & national funding to try various innovations in education is something to be commended.
I do not offer any of these comments to try and say that the landscape of urban education is the picture of health, that TPS is the cat's meow, condone unprofessional behavior at board meetings, nor offer anendorsement for all of the folks that left. There are people who needed to go (and some who still do). There were a lot of good folks in the mix, though, and many of the posting lump someone's bad behavior with everyone's competency. You paint a dire picture of everything, and it is all not so. There is a lot of good being done in TPS, and yes that is through a lot of the work done by people in Sander's administration.
Thanks a ton for the lively dialogue - great food for thought on Thursday! And as you state, I look forward to more posting down the road and revelations...Makes a better show than Lost!
posted by wombat at 04:42 P.M. EST on Thu Sep 21, 2006 #
Oh Katie, we all want the same thing. I've been involved in urban affairs locally as well as with wider scope. Too many young people who don't make the connection between effort now, and happinees in the future. I't dammed frustrating do have school contributing to there problem when they, as we all agree, can be working together to advance their lot in life. I hope I can make it to the coffee thing so I can explain further.
posted by Offshore at 05:51 A.M. EST on Fri Sep 22, 2006 #
Accountability is important, absolutely, but the types of assessment used are out whack with the purpose of the educational system. Continual assessment, with recursive feedback into the system, is key to the educational process. Once-a-year testing that determines funding, progress, etc., is not....
Yes, you are on to something there.
posted by Offshore at 11:05 A.M. EST on Fri Sep 22, 2006 #
offshore
I know very, very well, many black students that learn well.
I've also buried many of them.
I have been involved with black students all of my life,and have lived in the ghetto with the "hood rats" (to quote GuestZero) all of my life but I have never been to a funeral for a young black child. There is a quote on the side of the library that states "Education has freed more people that all the wars in history."
GuestZero
Purnhrt said: "It is thinking like yours that gives American's a bad name all over the world."
Purnhrt, you'll just have to put your emotion aside with addressing this topic. I don't think that was emotion speaking, just the facts.
posted by purnhrt at 01:13 P.M. EST on Fri Sep 22, 2006 #
I don’t blame GZ for his label. During the past 20 years, almost each year, I have been associated with a young man who has either been killed or has done the killing. The last one, just a few months ago, lost half his head during a pissant drug deal gone bad.
Why?
posted by Offshore at 03:54 P.M. EST on Fri Sep 22, 2006 #
offshore
either you are in the criminal justice system or you need to find a new set of friends.
posted by purnhrt at 07:46 P.M. EST on Fri Sep 22, 2006 #
purnhrt - I don't know offshore, but I can think of numerous jobs, not necessarily in the criminal justice system, that would bring him/her into association with individuals who had killed or been killed...social work, ministry, education, medicine, or even a business owner.
Although I'm alarmed by how many deaths s/he has witnessed....
posted by MaggieThurber at 09:06 P.M. EST on Fri Sep 22, 2006 #
MaggieThurber
purnhrt - I don't know offshore, but I can think of numerous jobs, not necessarily in the criminal justice system, that would bring him/her into association with individuals who had killed or been killed...social work, ministry, education, medicine, or even a business owner.
Although I'm alarmed by how many deaths s/he has witnessed....
On a previous post to this same commentary Offshore stated "I know very very well, many black students that learn well, I've also buried many of them.
Offshore also stated I don’t blame GZ for his label. During the past 20 years, almost each year, I have been associated with a young man who has either been killed or has done the killing. The last one, just a few months ago, lost half his head during a pissant drug deal gone bad.
Why?
First of all he agreed with the lable of "Hood Rat" for inner city children. With that type of mentality it would be hard for me to believe that a social worker, minister, teacher, doctor or business owner had been intimately involved with twenty young black students who have been killed or have killed over a span of twenty years. If I was a young black student who learns well and was involved with Offshore in whatever his profession is I would steer clear of him.
The only profession that I could think of would
be either a probation officer, a policeman or someone who worked in the criminal justice system if only for the contempt he shows for these students. Would a doctor or a teacher feel this way about their patients or students? I would hope not. As the saying goes "Familiarity breeds contempt."
posted by purnhrt at 12:15 A.M. EST on Sat Sep 23, 2006 #
Maggie: it’s quite true. Want names? They’re written on t-shirts under their pictures and RIP all over the rotting hood.
Professions purhrt? It’s possible for the concerned to assume multiple roles: scholarly, practitioner, and those required by one’s sense of duty.
Contempt purhrt: Would you like the Cricket phone number of the Crip that called me two days ago to ask for a ride to the job I helped him get?
Contempt: Would you like to join me in the damp bowels of abandon buildings with Gang Task Force members, flashlight in one hand, looking for drug activity?
Contempt: How about wipe the nose of an infant on one knee while explaining algorithms to the child’s 15 year old mother.
Contempt: Do you mean like the creation of a boxing club for rival gang members?
Contempt: Log onto Ohio Offender Search and view those that got away, and feel a sense of despair and wish you had done more. Want names? See above comment to Maggie for their killers.
Contempt: Ask a young black woman for black female role models and names like Mia Angelo and Condoleezza rice totally escape them, but Lil Kim, Foxy Brown, Trina, and Da Brat spring to mind.
Contempt: When $200 shoes (Koolkicks), oversized chrome wheels, and pitbulls, become more important the mother of their baby and baby.
Contempt: Do you mean like for the chauvinistic roles for ghetto women (girls) as “mother f#cking ho” and punching bag?
Contempt: Do you mean like stepfathers who continually try slipping into daughter’s bed after Momma passes out?
Contempt: Do you mean for the time a nineteen year old is sent to a state prison at Christmas time and he says, “it’s okay, I have family there”
Contempt: Do you mean for the feeling of utter despair at being the only white in a graveyard of grieving black relatives?
Yes: I have contempt, for the festering conditions of the hood, my callused soul, and you.
posted by Offshore at 08:05 A.M. EST on Sat Sep 23, 2006 #
Offshore, is that angry tone in your post a cause for concern? Sounds to me like you need a break from working with whatever group of folks you deal with.
posted by Judy at 10:25 A.M. EST on Sat Sep 23, 2006 #
Offshore
Do you think that a quality education for these people that you are involved with would help turn this ship around, especially if they are young people? As I posted before, written on the outside walls of the downtown library, is a quote, "Education has freed more people that all the wars in history."
"Hood Rats," Crips, Rival gang members, LIL Kim Devotees, all need an education. Once these young people are engaged in the educational process do you think the process for change would begin for them.
Pickett school would be a perfect place for this process to begin as it is an elementary school and according to different posts the dregs of society's children go there. If education begins at birth and according to various post the homes and parents are failing the children at Pickett, can the ball be picked up at the elementary level by the educators?
Do you think that any of these children can be saved? If so I have some ideas as to how we can save the 457 students at Pickett.
Oh, and by the way who is Mia Angelo? I am pretty well versed in my black female role models but have never heard of Mia Angelo.
posted by purnhrt at 11:16 A.M. EST on Sat Sep 23, 2006 #
Judy, no angry tone here. I love, repeat, love, the young people I am associated with and they have demonstrated the same toward me.
I have been associated with urban affairs for many, many years on many different levels all aimed at correcting ills and helping young people, particularly the lives of minority youth. Why is it so hard to understand it is the conditions I’m fighting against that I despise, the conditions that surround them, stifle them, turn precious little toddlers into convicts and corpses?
Why is it so hard to believe that there have been so many useless murders? Read the Blade. Just last week there was a murder/drug deal gone bad involving a young man that I once knew. Each summer, especially when there are no summer youth programs there are more of them. Hell, it’s month 9 of the year and I can already list one dead and one accused of the killing.
Incidentally, I never called anyone a hood rat; I empathized with somebody who did because I know very intimately why these perceptions exist. We all see it, he said it.
Purhrt, of course I can believe education, at home and school can make a difference. Isn’t that what we are talking about? I don’t just talk, I do.
Familiarity doesn’t always breed contempt, it breeds tough love. I champion a cause against ignorance, racism, poverty.
P.S. Maya Angelou pre-coffee!
posted by Offshore at 12:22 P.M. EST on Sat Sep 23, 2006 #
Offshore - would you please email me? I think you and I may be struggling for the same result but attacking from two different angles. My email is in the profile.
Perhaps we could be of help to each other.
Thanks.
posted by DoknowDocare at 01:59 P.M. EST on Sat Sep 23, 2006 #
Offshore not only talks the talk, but also walks the walk. A very admirable person, Offshore is. We need more persons of such character, virtue, and commitment to children and community.
posted by RolandHansen at 02:18 P.M. EST on Sat Sep 23, 2006 #
DoKnow: yes I will soon, Thanks
Roland: thank's and bless you.
posted by Offshore at 02:24 P.M. EST on Sat Sep 23, 2006 #
offshore
Neither is the hood-rat culture.
stated by GZ and you posted " don’t blame GZ for his label."
To me you were using the equation of a=b, c=b therefore a=c.
If I misquoted you I am sorry and I am glad that you are doing the work that you do. I am now asking you if you really want to make a change for the people that you tough love with?
And if you do I have some ideas that we can use and it would start with Pickett school where the school has been failing the children for seven years which leads to the situations you are involved in.
posted by purnhrt at 07:55 P.M. EST on Sat Sep 23, 2006 #
Purnhrt, this link may help. Look at what Boston schools does. It mimics Wombat's advice. http://www.broadfoundation.org/
The best part of child/youth advocacay is when the kids realize that they had it in them all along. God bless them all. You too.
posted by Offshore at 07:55 A.M. EST on Sun Sep 24, 2006 #
Offshore
purnhrt, this link may help.
May help who or what? I offered a hand out to come together to transform Pickett Elementary to a school that works. Visiting websites are good but it does not take the place of actual work to make things better for the people who you are involved with. Out of respect for you and what you do to help the underdog, I went to the website and will visit it again.
Posters have vouched for your credibility on this site so I am assuming you are for real. Again I ask, are you willing to dig in and use some of the ideas I have, to turn Pickett around?
posted by purnhrt at 08:51 A.M. EST on Sun Sep 24, 2006 #
purnhrt:Given the limitations of this type of forum, risk of conflicts of interest, the fact that I don’t live in TPS district, I’m trying to be discrete.
The improvements at Boston and Miami show some extra monitoring of various aspects. Contact the foundation. This is what they do.
What did you have in mind?
P.S. I'm very much for real.
posted by Offshore at 07:02 A.M. EST on Mon Sep 25, 2006 #
offshore
this can all be done without revealing who you are in real life.
posted by purnhrt at 12:07 P.M. EST on Mon Sep 25, 2006 #
Good, give details or list your email under Members, I too will list mine as soon as I get a new one. I'm in transition. Thanks
posted by Offshore at 12:48 P.M. EST on Mon Sep 25, 2006 #
:-)
purnhrt - I've dialogued/debated with offshore before - I think he is for real too.
posted by katie82640 at 04:26 P.M. EST on Mon Sep 25, 2006 #
School Board meeting tomorrow at 5:30 at Manhattan and Elm. Try to get there early as the administration is going to stack the room tomorrow.
posted by purnhrt at 08:47 P.M. EST on Mon Sep 25, 2006 #
Try to get there early as the administration is going to stack the room tomorrow.
Ouch!!! posted by purnhrt at 09:47 P.M. EDT on Mon Sep 25, 2006
And if you don't believe that - go and see for yourself...it's kind of strange. One of the board members brings their own goon squad.
posted by katie82640 at 07:53 A.M. EST on Tue Sep 26, 2006 #
I'm a teacher-I never took a class in college about what you do when a student is murdered. I have been to many funnerals in my 20 years of teaching-most gang releted,all were young black men with the exception of a little black girl murdered by her own metally ill mother. I came from a 2 parent household,and it was NOT pretty.It took me a while to find myself and I went through a lot-failed in school-could not hold a job,self medicated etc......school failed me,or I failed school because they simply could not help me with my home life. WHen I got out of that hell hole it still took years to realize that I HAD THE POWER to make my life GOOD and worth living. As a teacher now-I do try to get into my students world when I see problems,there is only so much I can do-I even became a foster parent....I have a little boy now who's father beats the hell out of his mother-he wants to KILL his father-he has told me this...do you think this child does well in school?.....yet he lives with both parents....I work with him the best I can,talk with him,try to guide him...share my story...and "NO child left behind."..biggest piece of crap to come down the pipe-and no,.... money will not fix most of the problems in our schools-parent accountability-THAT IS WHAT NEEDS TO BE LAW!
posted by divamom26 at 02:33 A.M. EST on Sat Sep 30, 2006 #
Divamom26
I'm not quite sure what your post is all about. But what it looks like to me is you are saying black boys are the only boys who are in gangs and are murdered and the black female child is the only child killed by her parent? What about Andrea Yates, does she qualify to be included in your synopsis of parent accountability and what is right about schools.
I think what parents want most is for teachers to teach their children, reading, writing and arithmetic, not to be a foster parent to their child, not to share their story.
Being a teacher, you might want to spell check before you post.
posted by purnhrt at 04:23 P.M. EST on Sat Sep 30, 2006 #
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