Toledo's population decline is a statewide problem. Even Maumee, Sylvania, and other communities around us is not even growing in population. The trend is clear cut statewide--nearly all cities are in decline except for Columbus because they annex every day. Until the ways of government on state-level changes the health of our state will continue to deteriorate. Economic, brain-drain, high taxes, corruption all begins in Columbus which impacts every corner of our state. It's time to change.
posted by HolyHolyToledo at 02:59 P.M. EST on Thu Jun 22, 2006 #
Supposedly even Columbus lost some population between 2004 and 2005. First time ever.
posted by paddington at 03:19 P.M. EST on Thu Jun 22, 2006 #
...maybe real estate prices will go down when they figure out that less population means less demand for housing...
posted by timault at 03:45 P.M. EST on Thu Jun 22, 2006 #
There's no single reason that Ohio's cities are losing population to Southern and Western states. It's a combination of several reasons that people are moving. When looking for a place to move people look at everything from taxes and jobs to weather and schools. People are leaving Toledo because of the weather (and many of the people that still call Toledo home are gone for three or four months a year to Florida), a lack of jobs compared to other places, high utility costs, high taxes and regulation, and high costs for public higher education among other reasons.
Ohio's in a mess. Ideally we'd start from scratch and redo everything bottom up. That'll never happen, but we can dream.
I'm going to be moving in three years to some place in the US. Right now I'm planning on going back to the South for a couple reasons. One is that it's home and I like the South better. But there's also economic considerations and quality of life considerations. Lower taxes, lower utility rates, and inexpensive real estate are all huge factors......and the weather is ideal in the South.
posted by HeyHey at 05:51 P.M. EST on Thu Jun 22, 2006 #
very good question gz. When your household budget is cut - you have to cut expenses.
He didn't really say that did ? That when your population shrinks 'your tax base tends to shrink along with it'.
Yer pulling mah leg here sir.
posted by katie82640 at 06:18 P.M. EST on Thu Jun 22, 2006 #
For too long, politicians have practiced the "divide and conquer" theory of government. Divide everyone up into groups and then cater to one or two needs of each group. Government won't be downsized because that means that some 'special interest' will have their funding cut and those 'special interests' have members who vote...so there will be repercussions to elected officials who offend a 'special interest' by telling them to make do with less money.
Politicians have spent your tax dollars on non-essential things for so long that they now believe that everything is a necessity, especially if a 'special interest' has become dependent upon the government funding.
Government will only shrink when a majority of people are elected who promise to do just that - and are then held accountable by us.
posted by MaggieThurber at 06:44 P.M. EST on Thu Jun 22, 2006 #
I can be added to the list of people who will be leaving this area. I was born here and am a college instructor contributing to our community. The last five years I have lived in the Washington Local area and pay higher taxes then I have paid anywhere. The problem is this...I live in a neighborhood where politicians and officials have closed their ears to complaints or have decided to not become involved. Carty walked through my neighborhood during his campaign and actually promised to help. He personally gave me his number and told me that what was going on was not acceptable. He hugged me and told me not to give up. Here I sit today with all the issues that we talked about and they have actually compounded. Here are the issues...I live next door to a home that has been cited by the city on numerous occassions that now has rats. These rats are now coming into my yard. These same people drink and fight all night long and burn. Their smoke fills my home with smoke from treated wood. I called the local fire department and they told me that I needed to close all my windows. Never mind that the contraption that they created to burn in has a smoke stack that they pointed toward my home. It was 75 that night. I have tried the police, block watch (we created), spoke with Mayor Ford, Carty, Skeldon (we have two illegal American Bull dogs living up the street), Officer Duncan (the assigned peace keeper), Marcy Kaptur, and other officials. NO ONE has done a thing except the people I have complained about through retaliation. My home has been hit with paint balls, my cars have been vandalized, and my property damamged. For what, so my family can live in peace. So here I sit at my computer frustrated beyond comprehension and I read this post. I know why I am leaving.
posted by VB at 08:49 P.M. EST on Thu Jun 22, 2006 #
You can't blame the weather on Ohio and Toledo's shrinking. Other northern communities have not experienced the loss we have and others have grown.
The problem is Ohio did not adapt well to the technology boom of the 90's. It stuck to it's roots of a manufacturing base and when those jobs were outsourced there were no research jobs in the state to replace them.
Toledo's problem is taxes. The cost of living in Toledo has become too high. You can't hit people's pocketbook while they sit at home and expect them to go out and spend more money on the weekends.
Ohio and Toledo have the same problem. Lack of initiative. Toledo has failed to act on Southwyck, the Arena, the Marina District, and the Steamplant. The same projects that they were discussing when I left town over 5 years ago.
It has watched Owens Corning move and Dana declare bankruptcy. When businesses have been willing to move to town (Wal-Mart, CostCo) the city and it's people have done their best to try and derail the projects as best they can.
We are getting exactly what we bargained for.
posted by MikeyA at 09:52 P.M. EST on Thu Jun 22, 2006 #
GZ the only thing that shrinks is our pocketbooks when the government says they don't have enough money, then they sock it to the people remaining, causing more to leave. The only thing that can change this cycle are the leaders making tough decisions on how to do things with less. Why can't people realize that a low tax burden can be a competitive advantage?
posted by chrismyers at 10:43 P.M. EST on Thu Jun 22, 2006 #
VB: What do you teach? What's your degree in?
You can continue to call the TPD and complain about the burning and vandalism, for whatever good that will do. You can also use video cameras to capture vandals in the act and demand that the prosecutor persue the case.
Me, I'd be tempted to hire six or so thugs to pay the cretins a visit some night and put a few in the hospital.
As to the rat problem, get yourself a nice terrier. A good rat terrier is excellent company and will make very short work of any rats it can find.
posted by madjack at 11:27 P.M. EST on Thu Jun 22, 2006 #
Mikey,
Tell that to all the people who refuse to live in cold climates. Ask Florida why they are growing at a record pace and they'll quickly tell you that they lucked out with good weather. Weather is undeniably a major factor. It's not the only factor, but it is a factor nonetheless. Other cities in cold climates have made it okay. However, they typically have something to offer that cities like Toledo and Cleveland don't. NYC, Chicago, and Boston are cold weather cities, but they all have tremendous educational, cultural and economic resources. While some cities make up for their cold climate through various means (lower taxes, low crime, good public school system, good economy, etc) Toledo has not.
When looking at cities growth over the years there are several variables that must be considered. Weather is one of those just as income taxes, property taxes, per capita income, school systems, crime, and cultural events are. Add up all these variables and you'll get a rough picture of where people are moving in the country.
posted by HeyHey at 11:52 P.M. EST on Thu Jun 22, 2006 #
By the way, I agree with you on the rest of your analysis. Toledo is stuck in the stone ages when it comes to businesses. One of the first radio commercials I heard when I first visited Toledo three years ago was a union calling for the boycott of Wal-Mart. I was stunned, and turned off immediately to that aspect of Toledo. In fact, the radio spot and the people picketing wal-mart are two of the stories I always tell when I go home to people asking about Toledo. The responses are always funny.
posted by HeyHey at 11:57 P.M. EST on Thu Jun 22, 2006 #
Two words: Jobs. Taxes.
posted by Darkseid at 01:25 A.M. EST on Fri Jun 23, 2006 #
HeyHey I'm not argueing that weather isn't a factor. What retiree doesn't think of moving to a warmer climate.
I'm saying that weather is a minor factor. I just moved here from a warmer climate and I'm happier about the weather because if I still lived down south yesterday I would have been in 90+ degree heat. But if I were a private sector businessman and not a student I would definitely not have come back to NW Ohio because the costs when weighed against other positive factors does not make sense.
posted by MikeyA at 07:31 A.M. EST on Fri Jun 23, 2006 #
MadJack,
I am a friend of VB's and have seen the daily activities that go on in that neighborhood. It is appalling to even think that one neighborhood can do so much damage and TPD, govt. officials, etc. just snub their noses, especially towards those law-abiding citizens who elected them into office. And to think, that is just one area. I can't even imagine how many others are affected with these same problems and have nowhere to turn. It seems that once the elections are over, it's easier to just close your eyes and do nothing or do as Carty did -- install a work-out facility in your office with a separate bathroom for showering afterwards. Gee, I for one am glad he did that...it will lower his stress levels by working out. HA!
Also, getting a prosecutor to persue any case is a joke. You are talking about the same public office/govt. that refuses to be of any help to begin with. It all trickles down. The prosecutor's office handles over 110,000 cases per year and there are only 7 prosecutor's to handle all of those cases. It is sad to sit and watch the scenes in those courtrooms. It's like an assembly line and justice is not a concern -- only the money spent. In fact, I was witness to a gentlemen who was held on 11 felonies from ONE single incident, to only walk away with a slap on the wrist. You think this same office is going to care if people are burning in their backyard, allowing underage drinking to continue, or vandalism to run rampant? Even if you could get the prosecutor to "pursue" a case, how can that happen when TPD won't even take a police report? I find it funny that if a neighbor decided to protect themselves by possibly becoming a vigilante, it would be THAT person going to jail. Nevermind the underlying causes and the people it affects daily.
I have lived in several big cities, including Dallas and Boston and I have never seen a sorrier excuse for crime prevention than I have seen in Toledo.
posted by vtgrzly at 08:27 A.M. EST on Fri Jun 23, 2006 #
It has watched Owens Corning move
Mikey, it was Owens Illinois that moved. (but i wouldnt be surprised if OC doesnt go soon)
I live next door to a home that has been cited by the city on numerous occassions that now has rats. These rats are now coming into my yard. These same people drink and fight all night long and burn. Their smoke fills my home with smoke from treated wood. I called the local fire department and they told me that I needed to close all my windows. Never mind that the contraption that they created to burn in has a smoke stack that they pointed toward my home.
I know how you feel, VB. the only releif we got was the people who were drunk idiots with the outdoor smoke stack mooved about a month ago (thank god!) as for the rats in our neighborhood, theres not too many but the old people next door are horrible they have a jungle next door and they come from thier garage. but we have neighborhood stray cats that handle most of that problem. we leave food out for the kitty's every now and then so they stay around (they love my leftover meatloaf).
And the cops wont do jack sh*t, unless of course your speeding while their hiding behind the sports arena or somewhere.
posted by tm at 09:01 A.M. EST on Fri Jun 23, 2006 #
That's ok, those Floridians will be back once the coastal areas are under water. And my mom is moving up here from Florida this summer, so that's a "plus 1" for Toledo. We are doing our part. :)
posted by pink_slip at 12:04 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 23, 2006 #
There is nothing that can be done about the rats/fire etc? That's awful.
I would leave also - I would first have a naive belief that there WOULD be something that could be done since the good guys are supposed to win. Then I'd spend alot of time and since some of you are posting it is so and I respect THOSE opinions, I'd fail.
Then I'd move.
But is there truly nothing that can be done? A civil lawsuit? A call to the state police? Nothing?
posted by katie82640 at 12:07 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 23, 2006 #
What exactly are the "state" police supposed to do? State police regulate federal laws...not municipal laws.
Although, I agree that the easiest solution would be to move. But if funds are limited then that does not seem like a possible alternative. Also, why should anyone have to move from a home that they have established? Should a citizen not have every right to feel protected and safe in an environment that they so choose? Isn't that we all pay our taxes so that we can afford such protection? Has our society turned into something we should just run from? Should we just close our eyes like the politcians have done for so long? I would hope not!! However, if that's the case...move me to an uninhabited island somewhere because it's obviously not going to get any better.
A civil lawsuit was looked into, however, it would cost entirely too much money to fight a city government that is already known to be corrupt. Good luck finding a lawyer willing to take on the city. Those are few and far between and the costs to hire such a lawyer are outrageous. Would it be worth it to bring yourself out into the open like that and possibly face more retaliation, not only from your neighbors, but from the "city" as well? Believe it or not, the lawyer stated such retaliation could and probably would occur. But, I guess it takes corruption to fight corruption. That alone is a sad statement...
Sure, "good guys" are supposed to win. That's a nice picture to paint. Afterall, history dictates that...mostly thanks to hollywood.
posted by vtgrzly at 12:52 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 23, 2006 #
"...maybe real estate prices will go down when they figure out that less population means less demand for housing..."
Umm... Real estate prices are about as low as they can get. Toledo has one of the cheapest housing markets in the country. The situation here is downright stagnant, and very painful for anyone trying to sell a house.
If you want something cheaper, I suggest you move to Somalia or something.
posted by paddington at 12:57 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 23, 2006 #
Most of the growth in the sunbelt is due to close proximity to Mexico, and enormous amounts of illegal immigration, or in Florida's case: illegal immigration from the Carribbean.
Ohio isn't going to grow as fast as Arizona, but it should at least be growing as fast as Indiana, Kentucky, etc. Both Wisconsin and Minnesota (which are much colder than any part of Ohio) consistently post much better growth numbers. So warm weather is not everything.
posted by paddington at 12:59 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 23, 2006 #
vtg you paint a grisly picture. Retaliation?
What a frustrating experience. I had it in my mind that if something went wrong and you couldn't get help from the local police (or if the local police WERE the problem) you called the State Police?
posted by katie82640 at 01:04 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 23, 2006 #
But is there truly nothing that can be done? A civil lawsuit? A call to the state police? Nothing?
There is something called the neighborhood dispute or something to that effect. The other party isnt compelled to attend, but it may be a way to get the ball rolling or at least as a scare tactic.
posted by tm at 01:10 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 23, 2006 #
TM,
Neighborhood dispute? Believe it or not, a Crime Watch was set up in this neighborhood and Officer Duncan showed up to a few meetings. In fact, Officer Duncan was assigned as a "peace keeper" for this so-called project. Flyers were even distributed to get people to attend, which worked...they showed up in full force. However, nothing and I mean abolsutely nothing was done to help rectify the situation in this neighborhood and it became so frustrating to the residents that the meetings eventually petered out. I guess they realized that nobody else cared too.
posted by vtgrzly at 01:17 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 23, 2006 #
Im sorry, i meant that you file a petition personally against your neighbors specifically. (im looking for the info, ill post it when i find it)
posted by tm at 01:29 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 23, 2006 #
509.03. Disorderly conduct.
(a) No person shall recklessly cause inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm to another; by doing any of the following:
(1) Engaging in fighting, in threatening harm to persons or property, or in violent or turbulent behavior;
(2) Making unreasonable noise or an offensively coarse utterance, gesture, or display; or communicating unwarranted and grossly abusive language to any person;
(3) Insulting, taunting, or challenging another, under circumstances in which that conduct is likely to provoke a violent response;
(4) Hindering or preventing the movement of persons on a public street, road, highway, or right-of-way, or to, from, within, or upon public or private property, so as to interfere with the rights of others, and by any act that serves no lawful and reasonable purpose of the offender;
(5) Creating a condition that is physically offensive to persons or that presents a risk of physical harm to persons or property, by any act that serves no lawful and reasonable purpose of the offender.
(b) No person, while voluntarily intoxicated, shall do either of the following:
(1) In a public place or in the presence of two or more persons, engage in conduct likely to be offensive or to cause inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm to persons of ordinary sensibilities, which conduct the offender, if the offender were not intoxicated, should know is likely to have that effect on others;
(2) Engage in conduct or create a condition that presents a risk of physical harm to the offender or another, or to the property of another.
(c) Violation of any statute or ordinance of which an element is operating a motor vehicle, locomotive, watercraft, aircraft, or other vehicle while under the influence of alcohol or any drug of abuse, is not a violation of division (B) of this section.
(d) If a person appears to an ordinary observer to be intoxicated, it is probable cause to believe that person is voluntarily intoxicated for purposes of division (B) of this section.
(e)(1) Whoever violates this section is guilty of disorderly conduct.
(2) Except as otherwise provided in division (E)(3) of this section, disorderly conduct is a minor misdemeanor.
(3) Disorderly conduct is a misdemeanor of the Fourth degree if any of the following applies:
A. The offender persists in disorderly conduct after reasonable warning or request to desist.
B. The offense is committed in the vicinity of a school or in a school safety zone.
C. The offense is committed in the presence of any law enforcement officer, firefighter, rescuer, medical person, emergency medical services persons, or other authorized person who is engaged in the person's duties at the scene of a fire, accident, disaster, riot, or emergency of any kind.
(f) As used in this section,
(1) "Emergency medical services person" is the singular of "emergency medical services personnel" as defined in section 2133.21 of the Revised Code.
The only other advice i can give is print the code out, call the cops everytime (even if they dont show up) if/when they do show up, show them the printout, and demand that they at least talk to the other party. I know its not much and it probably wont help. but maybe??? Its also pretty sad that the cop who was elected as the peace keeper isn't doing anything either. You gotta love the TPD.
posted by tm at 01:39 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 23, 2006 #
Thanks for the additional info TM. I will pass it along to VB. The next step is back to Carty's office but I have to gather my sense of humor before doing so.
posted by vtgrzly at 01:42 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 23, 2006 #
From the above:
(a) No person shall recklessly cause inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm to another; by doing any of the following:
(5) Creating a condition that is physically offensive to persons or that presents a risk of physical harm to persons or property, by any act that serves no lawful and reasonable purpose of the offender.
I would think generating smoke that invades someones living space, creating a health hazard that results in vermin and screaming all the time consistutes a condition that is physically offensive.
I sure feel for you. I'd hoped with a new police chief things were going to get better. Sounds like more of the same where you live.
posted by katie82640 at 02:30 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 23, 2006 #
Of course, all of this is just fine and dandy. Gotta love that Ohio Revised Code!! However, any legal term can fit anyone's definition...it just depends on how you define it and if you can convice someone else to see it the way you do. That is why they call it "vague." Obviously, TPD uses their own definition depending on what mood they are in and whether or not the local donut shop had their favorite donut(s) in stock.
Ok, I'm resorting to sarcasm, but something has to keep me sane!!
posted by vtgrzly at 03:12 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 23, 2006 #
If your neighbors have a fire in their yard NOT used for cooking out, here is the applicable Toledo Municipal Code.
1777.02. Open burning prohibited.
(a) No person shall permit any open burning in the City without prior approval of the Administrator.
(b) It shall be prima-facie evidence that the person who owns or controls property on which open burning occurs has caused or permitted such open burning.
(c) No person shall conduct, cause or permit the conduct of a salvage operation by open burning.
(Ord. 646-80. Passed 9-16-80.)
(d) Exceptions to prohibition against open burning.
(1) Fires for noncommercial cooking of food for human consumption.
(2) Fires for the disposal of dangerous materials, where there is no alternate method of disposal and such burning is approved by the Commissioner of Pollution Control.
(3) Properly supervised fires set for fire fighting, ceremonial or research purposes or for abating a fire hazard may be permitted upon proper application, in writing, to the Commissioner, stating the purpose, time and place of such burning.
(4) Fires for other essential purposes for which written approval has been granted by the Commissioner.
(Ord. 46-93. Passed 2-2-93.)
I'd take a really good picture, go down to the police station and file a police report, take the police report and file an individual compliant in the Court.
If you want help on how that process works, let me know... (disclosure - as the former Clerk of Toledo Municipal Court, I know the process but am NOT giving legal advice...)
posted by MaggieThurber at 03:58 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 23, 2006 #
Maggie - this is good information. And that's all it is.
But it would be good to see this person get some help.
posted by katie82640 at 04:10 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 23, 2006 #
Let me be clearer then. Anyone can call me or email me and I can give them more information about how to go about this process on their own without having to wait for the police. It may not be successful, but it's a better option than doing nothing at all...
posted by MaggieThurber at 04:31 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 23, 2006 #
To Maggie, and the rest of you that posted copies of the law to help.
IT DOESN'T WORK IN THE REAL WORLD!
When they were burning in their backyard in a metal container with a stove pipe pointing toward our property and it stunk. It wasn't wood burning smell. It smelled like treated wood or some kind of plastic. Anyway, we called 911 to ask who to complain to and they said the fire department. We then called our fire department. Moments later a full size fire truck screams down our street. We thought, "Finally, some satisfaction and we can open our windows.". But, the joke was on us. The fire people went into their backyard. I heard some talking and then they came to our front door. So much for remaining anomyous. The fire department guys said, "They are not burning garbage so it's O.K." We then asked what about the smell and smoke in our house. The firemen said, "If the smoke and smell bothers you, close your windows."
It didn't matter whether or not I had a copy of the law, it didn't matter if they were burning human sacrifices, IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.
So here we are again this summer sitting with our windows shut, watching the smoke from our neighbors backyard billow into the air. Yes, I could use my A/C, but why should I have to?
Pictures? Sure, I'll do that. And when I find pieces of my fence broken away because some idiot finds out it's me what then? No, I don't have an attorney on "staff" to file these numerous lawsuits to prove a point.
THE BOTTOM LINE IS THIS: YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO CALL THE POLICE AND/OR FIRE DEPARTMENT AND THEY SHOULD ENFORCE THE LAWS. IF NOT, PLEASE MOVE ME TO THE EAST SIDE. AT LEAST THERE MY TAXES WILL BE LOWER.
posted by tommy1 at 07:57 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 23, 2006 #
TM :My educational background and my degrees are not the issue. I am educated and working.
Maggie and all, I have numerous pictures, videos, police reports (when taken), and copies of citations given. I have documentation that police reports were not taken when they should have been. I have all of the codes and laws ( I do my research). These are laws of convenience. A wonderful example is the two American Bull dogs that are deemed vicious according to the law. The dog warden has documentation that both of these dogs reside at this home. The law states that only one of these dogs can be owned. The documentation and the video that the dog warden told me to take was not enough. These individuals are RENTERS and the dog warden was not powerful enough to do a thing. Neither was the law because this person was breaking four of them. It got held up in our courts and guess what the dogs are still there dispite the current ruling. Fine, law of convenience.
Burning, drinking and disturbing my home at three in the morning, not enforcable. My eight year old daughter's room is right next to the neighbors' backyard. So this screaming foul language wakes her up. I have seen people beaten to the point where a gun has been threatened and have informed 911. No response. We saw the people and could identify them...not enough. We have watched thirty people fighting in the street...called TPD...how long for the response...30 mins. Too late. My daughter is screaming and crying holding onto my leg..VIOLENCE. End result....nothing. Last weekend the neighbors decided to break part of a privacy fence that I put up and throw it into my yard. This has been going on for three years and it is getting worse. Yes, If I could afford to move I would. So I created a safe place in my backyard so my daughter could play safely without hear foul language and people drinking and driving going down the street at high rates of speed. Now, we have their rats coming into my yard. (TM, I own three dogs and as far as thugs go, no thanks I refuse to resort to violence.)
I think we have a weak excuse for law enforcement as well as other officials. If it does not touch their lives so it is not an issue. It would be tragic if these things were happening to those individuals. I have never asked for unreasonable things. I want peace and safety for my family. Don't we all want that.
posted by VB at 08:30 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 23, 2006 #
tommy - I do understand your situation...sorry I was trying to help. I agree that you should NOT have to do this on your own - a call to the police and the fire department should be all it takes. However, since you said it didn't work as it should, I was trying to offer an alternative way to address the problem. The offer still stands - you don't have to accept it.
VB - have you called the health department about the rats? If so, how did they respond? If you want to email or call me at my office with your information I'd be happy to ask them to check it out.
This is part of my job - to take constituent inquiries and help address such problems. However, I can't promise any specific outcomes because these agencies don't work for the commissioners - but I'll do what I can.
posted by MaggieThurber at 09:42 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 23, 2006 #
mayor.toledo@toledo.oh.gov
I went to a Town Hall Meeting and Carty said the best way to get something done was to e-mail him. I did about garbage in the alley from two doors down. I got immediate results. E-mail him the same thing you posted here and see if it works. It sure worked for me.
posted by SherryET at 09:50 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 23, 2006 #
I know how hard it can be when you've got a neighbor who is a jackass and acts without consideration to others. I too have tried to get the police to interviene to no avail. When left with no satisfactory legal resolution, sometimes you have to take matters into your own hands. I won't get into the specifics of my situation, because the statute of limitations is not up yet, but there are several legal ways to retaliate. As my grampa always says, "Spite makes right."
Best way to get your neighbors out of their backyard at night? I recommend a couple of 400w security lights, pointed directly at their house. Home Depot or Lowe's has them for about $25 a piece. Have the other neighbors who are also aggrivated by the noise and smell do the same. Keep them on all night long, and if possible, aim one so it also shines in a bedroom window or two. Unless they paint their windows black, those lights will shine through.
Next, try playing polkas intermittently through speakers placed outside throughout the night until the party ends. Or a few Josh Groban songs. Nobody likes him but middle aged housewifes.
Home improvement is your friend. Wake up early on weekend mornings and start cutting wood with a power saw. Even if you're just cutting a 2x4 into increasingly smaller pieces, the noise will drive them crazy as they try to recover from the previous night's excesses. Again, this works better if you have your neighbors follow suit.
Want to really freak them out? Try sitting on your porch, sharpening knives and listening to Kids Bop. Do this right after cutting wood at 7AM. They'll be up. When they come by to complain about the light or the noise, don't acknowledge their presence, just continue to sharpen, only pausing to ask them, "Do you think this is sharp enough?" When they ask what it's for, go back to sharpening.
The effect is two-fold: They may actually be freaked out enough to stop partying all night and who's going to retaliate against the neighbor who sharpens knives while listening to children's music?
I've got some other ideas, but they involve a bit of trespassing, so I won't mention them here. All I'll say is that Agent Orange isn't as difficult to get ahold of than you'd think. I've never known a landlord who looked favorably at a tenant who killed all the plant life on their property, including trees.
Free that inner-Charles Bronson.
posted by thenick at 10:37 P.M. EST on Fri Jun 23, 2006 #
"Wake up early on weekend mornings and start cutting wood with a power saw. Even if you're just cutting a 2x4 into increasingly smaller pieces, the noise will drive them crazy as they try to recover from the previous night's excesses"
Im with nick - If you dont like to use a power saw, find something - plywood, cardboard, anything, and put on a few coats of paint with a wagner power painter - same effect.
We had a neighbor who'd like to throw parties where at about 2am the clothes'd come off and they'd start screaming and jumping in the pool -
Might sound fun for some, but Im sure you're picturing the 25 year olds in your girls gone wild tapes...
Try chicks over a half century old and some 'breast/bellybutton/breast' action...
We just shut the windows and put on an environment sounds cd and drownded them out. Then mowed the lawn and used the string trimmer and leaf blower at about 8am
posted by billy at 05:47 A.M. EST on Sat Jun 24, 2006 #
Damn nick & billy, you 2 are hardcore (good for you)!
posted by MrsPhoenix at 05:49 A.M. EST on Sat Jun 24, 2006 #
For any out there who are sighing wistfully about the idea of moving to Florida as some sort of paradise, either DON'T, or just WAIT. The data (going back to the 1800s) strongly suggests that the atmospheric disturbances that waft westward from Africa that form our hurricanes have a 25-30 year cycle of intensity. Literally, people flocked to Florida to build out an enormous inventory of housing during the hurricane minimum. We are now in the maximum period, and it's likely to stretch for another 5 years. The Gulf Coast is simply screwed, and you'd have to have your head examined to want to move into the veritable jaws of that particular beast. Florida is too near sea level, and has destroyed too many wetlands (which buffer storm surges at a rate of maybe 1 inch per mile) to be a safe place in the current era.
Probably by 2012, after many billions of dollars of McMansions have been swept into the Atlantic, Florida will become a worthy retirement and living spot once again. If you retire at 65 around then, you are likely to die naturally in your Florida home rather than from it collapsing or washing away. Too bad your kids will inherit a home that will be subject to the next hurricane maximum.
posted by GuestZero at 02:11 A.M. EST on Sun Jun 25, 2006 #
GZ - after living in the Sunshine State for 23 years I can tell you......it ain't no picnic!
We all tend to think (or hope?) that the grass is greener on the other side. It's not.
Why was I there 23 years? Because once I got there I couldn't afford to leave. And I didn't live on the beach, drive a new car, etc. I worked - most times 2 or 3 jobs.
Florida is NOT a panacea.
posted by DoknowDocare at 08:37 A.M. EST on Sun Jun 25, 2006 #
BTW - to further illustrate that Florida is not a gold mine.....(taken from a trade magazine)
Florida
Please come. Although Orlando has traditionally been billed as affordable compared with other big resort areas, Central Florida employers say rising prices lock workers out of housing and make it difficult to attract employees to the area. The $259,700 median home price in Orlando and surrounding areas puts home ownership out of reach for many households, and with unemployment at 2.8 percent, employers face a hard time filling jobs if workers leave for cheaper housing. economist Mark Vitner told the Orlando Sentinel, which reported on the problem May 14.—Robert Freedman
posted by DoknowDocare at 09:54 A.M. EST on Sun Jun 25, 2006 #
tommy and vb - everyone believes you. Please don't think otherwise. My Mom is always doing this. I have a problem - she states the obvious - usually something I've already done or tried. I used to get so mad at her - but then I realized - she has to start at a to get to z just like me. But if I let her go till we reach the end of what I DID already try - alot of times she can go a mile further.
:-)
Also, I used to have a family member who called me, in my younger years - at about 6:00 on Sat. or Sun morning. I finally realized it worked in reverse. I'd call them about 1:00 on Friday night and holler the same thing they'd been asking me on Saturday morning, "OH! DID I WAKE YOU UP?!" Funny but the early morning calls stopped right away.
You could pull a reverse on your neighbors. Some ideas above :-)
I'd also see if you couldn't round up a very large party that starts...oh say 6:00 in the morning on a Saturday or Sunday? I'll bake one of those breakfast casserole thingies and I can get very loud if provided with cappuccino.
Additionally there are some Toledo Talkers who show up at things :-) Maybe one has a leaf blower and another one of the fence pole auger thingies - have you heard those? We could have a breakfast/gardening and fence putting up party.
posted by katie82640 at 03:51 P.M. EST on Sun Jun 25, 2006 #
TM :My educational background and my degrees are not the issue. I am educated and working.
Vb, I dont recall saying anything like that? what are you refereing to? we are simply trying to helpful.
(TM, I own three dogs and as far as thugs go, no thanks I refuse to resort to violence.)
Uh, that was madjack who said that not me.
Nick, the more you comment, the more i like your thinking! One thing that i did to my nieghbor (the one behind me who has sence moved) was they left their fire pit unattended once so i just got the old hose out and had me some fun.
And that breakfast party is a great idea. i would add about 20 extremly hyper kids.
posted by tm at 11:54 A.M. EST on Mon Jun 26, 2006 #
From that Blade article about Toledo losing population:
Top Losers
Rank - City - % decline from 2004 to 2005
1 Norfolk, Va -2.3
2 Cincinnati -1.6
3 Fayetteville, NC -1.6
4 Hialeah, Fla -1.5
5 Boston -1.5
6 Detroit -1.4
7 New Orleans -1.4
8 Cleveland -1.3
9 Pittsburgh -1.3
10 Salinas, Calif -1.2
12 Lansing, Mich -1.2
13 Toledo -1.1
21 Flint, Mich -0.9
23 Dayton -0.8
35 Ann Arbor -0.7
50 Akron -0.5
Top Gainers
Rank - City - % increase from 2004 to 2005
1 Elk Grove, Calif 11.6
2 North Las Vegas, Nev 11.4
3 Port St. Lucie, Fla 11
4 Gilbert, Ariz 11
5 Cape Coral, Fla 9.2
6 Moreno Valley, Calif 7.3
7 Rancho Cucamonga, Calif 6.4
8 Miramar, Fla 5.2
9 Chandler, Az 4.9
10 Irvine, Calif 4.9
Cincy Enquirer article about Lexington, KY, which grew 0.6% last year and has grown 2.9% since 2000.
"Aaron Walker is the guy Cincinnati is fighting for and losing. Walker is a 25-year-old electrical engineer, a graduate of the University of Cincinnati who is designing helicopters at Belcan Corp. in downtown Lexington."
"Walker says he has found more than a job - he's found a home. "It seems safer to me here," Walker said. "I don't mean to bash Cincinnati. I like Cincinnati. But Lexington is a lot cleaner, especially downtown. There aren't too many rundown areas. It's just a good place to be."
"Walker personifies what recently released U.S. Census numbers suggest: Lexington and Fayette County in Kentucky are growing; Cincinnati and Hamilton County are not."
"It's Wednesday night downtown, approaching 11 p.m. Triangle Park, in the middle of downtown, is bustling. There's no big attraction going on. Rupp Arena is dark. No major conventions. Summer sessions have started at the University of Kentucky."
"Yet more than 30 people are sitting on park benches and enjoying the fountains. There are families, children splashing in the water; couples talking quietly on benches. They are old and young; black and white. It's apparent they feel safe hanging out downtown at this hour."
"Walk down Broadway and turn right on West Short, and you'll find yourself at Cheapside. Once the slave-trading capital of the south, Cheapside now is a row of bars and pizza joints. No national chains here, just locally-owned hot-spots. The bars are all packed - think Main Street in Cincinnati on a Friday night."
Another Lexington resident said:
"Lexington is a bubble of forward-thinking people. And it's a cheap place to live. I moved out to L.A. a few years ago but it was too expensive. This is just a really cool place."
Unigov or something like it seems to be helping Lexington:
"The Lexington-Fayette County government has worked hard to keep downtown a growing, unique place. Milton Dohoney, Jr. has been the top administrator of this merged city-county government for three years. He said a number of programs are aimed at those very things."
"One program offers $15,000 to needy, first-time home buyers if they buy their home with a few mile radius of downtown. Counseling to improve credit also is offered."
"Another program pays farmers $2,500 per acre if they agree not to sell their land for development. The goal is to protect 50,000 acres of horse and tobacco farmland surrounding downtown. To date, they've spent more than $32 million protecting about 15,000 acres. "We protect the ring around the city, and that drives investment inward," Dohoney said. "It's an assurance that development won't overrun the things that make Lexington Lexington." "
"Government also is using bonds to pay for improvements in 17 targeted neighborhoods. In addition to those programs, a program called Hope 6 will help in the demolition of the last public housing project in the city, to be replaced by a mixed-income neighborhood. Two new schools - one a public community school and one a private school - have chosen to be downtown."
Some more about Lexington/Fayette County:
"There are other notable differences between Cincinnati and Lexington. No blighted or abandoned buildings are obvious in Lexington, compared to Cincinnati's 1,700 vacant buildings. Downtown here is more compact downtown, with restaurants, bars, hotels, convention center, universities, arena, opera, children's theatre and neighborhoods all in easy walking distance."
"Among other important issues, three Fayette County schools made the top of the list for Kentucky on accountability tests in 2005, and two were named to Newsweek magazine's Top 1000 Schools list for 2005."
Another article titled: 'Golden Triangle' dominates list of Kentucky's fastest-growing cities.
"Half of Kentucky's fastest-growing cities are in the "Golden Triangle" bounded by Louisville, Lexington and Northern Kentucky."
Info from City-Data.com on Toledo and Lexington-Fayette.
Toledo average temperature:
Lexington-Fayette average temperature:
Toledo snowfall:
Lexington-Fayette snowfall:
It's a few degrees cooler in Toledo, and we get about twice the snow as Lexington-Fayette, but blaming weather for a decline in population seems to be a stretch.
Cincinnati is number two on the U.S. list of cities losing population last year, yet that city's weather won't be much different than Lexington's.
posted by jr at 01:40 P.M. EST on Mon Jun 26, 2006 #
Guest'Zero states: For any out there who are sighing wistfully about the idea of moving to Florida as some sort of paradise, either DON'T, or just WAIT. The data (going back to the 1800s) strongly suggests that the atmospheric disturbances that waft westward from Africa that form our hurricanes have a 25-30 year cycle of intensity.
NOW YOU TELL ME!!!
posted by MARIELORA at 05:48 P.M. EST on Mon Jun 26, 2006 #
Real estate prices are about as low as they can get. Toledo has one of the cheapest housing markets in the country. The situation here is downright stagnant, and very painful for anyone trying to sell a house.
...just my point. I see "for sale" signs up all over Toledo, but people aren't buying. Basic Economics 101 says that when demand decreases, so does price.
Saying that real estaate prices are as low as they'll get just means that homeowners, real estate companies, and the auditor's office are in denail that their homes have lost value. They think of homes as investments, that they gain value over time. If they had the value these pepole think they do, they'd be able to sell them, no?
Hence, their prices are too high. They haven't realized that their homes have lost money as our economy (and thus location) has become less desirable.
Here's something else to chew on: a car, over time, depreciates in value. Why? Because the older the car is, the more it is necessary to make repairs. It gets older and begins to fall apart. (there are your 57 Chevys and GTOs out there, but they are exceptions) The same rule of depreciation applies for just about any product you buy.
But not housing (or so many people think).
My brother and his fiancee are having a new home built in an new subdivision. Turns out the cost of the home at $168,000 new is less than what they've seen people selling similiar sized 7-8 year old homes on the market. You buy a used home and you have home repairs, water heater, roof, furnace, etc. to do. And you can buy a new home for less than a used one??!
We know the 3 rules of real estate: location, location, location. And on an national level Toledo is not the place to be right now.
posted by timault at 06:49 P.M. EST on Mon Jun 26, 2006 #
The other day I read a posting on psyche777's Glass City Jungle blog that was about an opinion by former Toledo Mayor Jack Ford that was in The Soujourner's Truth newspaper. Today, I picked up the June 28 issue of the paper that had Ford's reasons why Toledo is losing population.
As mentioned on psyche777's blog, Ford said giving water to the burbs has made it easy for people to flee Toledo. But as I read Ford's opinion, something else Ford said caught my eye.
First, Ford about the water thing:
"Current office holders say it is the loss of jobs and poor schools that drive folks away from Toledo. I disagree. I say the main culprit is H2O."
Ford then blathers on about water agreements with the outlying areas. He said:
"These agreements allowed areas to take virgin farmland, water it and transform it into retail and residential centers."
A sidenote, that's an interesting statement Ford said, "water it" when you think about it. A lot of this area was part of the Great Black Swamp. Water was removed to make way for farmland. And now water is put back to make way for housing divisions.
Anway, that water thing is not what caught my eye. But before moving on, someone should survey households in the burbs that have kids, and ask if schools are high on the list of reasons why they don't live in Toledo.
And what about the people still living in Toledo who are pulling their kids out of TPS and enrolling them into charters? How does water in the burbs explain that?
Okay, getting to the good stuff about what Ford said:
"Since someone working in downtown Toledo can opt to move to Bedford Township and still have only a 15-minute communte down Jackman Rd, why not?"
Taxes may be a lot lower in Bedford Township than in Toledo. Frank Szollosi said Toledo's taxes are too high.
More from Jack about why Toledoans move to the burbs:
"It's greener, it appears newer and we think it is safer. And, for those of us who really are honest, it's whiter!"
Yes, Jack Ford used the exclamation point after "it's whiter."
Ford then champions the idea of Toledo needing regional government. Sure, Toledo needs it, but do the other communities?
And when a former Toledo mayor makes such an obviously ignorant, blanket statement like "it's whiter" which insults thousands of people, why should other communities want to have anything to do with Toledo?
Pretty obvious why Jack got his ass booted from office. That's an inflammatory statement that does nothing to remove any divide that may exist between Toledo and the outlying communities.
Ford said:
"Toledo will die a slow death unless we figure out how to change the outline of [our] government structure."
When a public figure like Ford makes an asinine statement like "it's whiter!" maybe Toledo deserves to die a slow death.
Where's the outrage over that comment by Ford? A bit of an uproar arose when Carty called Chief Bell 'king kong.'
Ford blames water and accuses former Toledoans of being racists. Well, that last part I'm inferring from Ford's comment, which is so damn insulting.
Frank Szollosi said about Toledo's population loss:
"It's an indication that taxes are too high in Toledo."
And Ford thinks it's not about poor schools, it's not about crime, but it's more about water going to the townships and because the other communities are whiter with an exclamation point after "whiter."
Szollosi's reality is the one that will solve Toledo's problems, not Ford's insult.
From the Editor's note in The Soujourner's Truth after Ford's opinion:
"Jack Ford is an executive in residence at Bowling Green State University where he teaches American Government, Black Politics and other courses in the political science field."
posted by jr at 07:32 P.M. EST on Thu Jul 06, 2006 #
Sheesh!
"It's whiter!"...
....what a guy, that Mr. Ford. Throwing in the race card to explain why people would leave a city he was mayor of.
psst...Jack, maybe, considering the potholes in the roads, the poor economy, and the riots, it could be people left because you were running the place?
"It's whiter!"...get a clue.
posted by timault at 08:45 P.M. EST on Thu Jul 06, 2006 #
And what about Ford's other comment about why people move to the burbs:
"... we think it is safer ..."
Think?
No community is immune to sex offenders, but it certainly seems Toledo has the lion's share.
75% of the county's population is in Toledo. I downloaded Lucas County's lastest file of registered sex offenders, which was updated last week.
The file contains 740 records with 669 listing a Toledo address. That's 90%.
The data set from last summer that I used in the mapping of the county's sex offenders also shows 90% of the offenders with a Toledo address.
posted by jr at 09:41 P.M. EST on Thu Jul 06, 2006 #
It's Whiter! that is SAD...funny...when not knowing how to answer a question...give ideas...give anything that may be useful...it's back to...It's Whiter!
I'll tell you what...I am close to running for my life out of Toledo...
Number ONE reason...HIGH TAXES and UNEMPLOYMENT
Number TWO reason...Neighborhoods looking SLUM LIKE...
Number THREE reason...Poor School System...
We were commenting on another Topic here on "Toledo Talk" of the POSTIVES of Toledo...and...now this It's Whiter! comment from our former Mayor and current Professor of some sort at B.G. University...well that's SCAREY! Atleast he's NOT teaching anything in Toledo!
posted by MARIELORA at 09:45 P.M. EST on Thu Jul 06, 2006 #
At least Jack practices what he preaches. He left Toledo, so now ... it's Whiter!
{runs away}
posted by GuestZero at 01:59 A.M. EST on Fri Jul 07, 2006 #
Have to agree with jr on this one...
"... we think it is safer ..."
Yeah, of course moving away is safer. The lower the spatial density, the less people you have living nearby. Thus there are less people to commit crimes against you.
(And you don't have to worry about gang riots because your mayor is too afraid of scaring off his base by cracking down on the gangs)
{running away too}
posted by timault at 10:40 A.M. EST on Fri Jul 07, 2006 #
...then again, in all fairness, not cracking down on the gangs could've been because of incompetence and not politics...
{okay, now I'm running}
posted by timault at 10:42 A.M. EST on Fri Jul 07, 2006 #
Actually, I don't think Toledo has 75% of the county's population. I believe it's more like 68%. So 68% of the population but 90% of the registered sex offenders.
posted by jr at 11:58 A.M. EST on Fri Jul 07, 2006 #
They were probably attracted by the Mayor's red light district.
posted by katie82640 at 12:03 P.M. EST on Fri Jul 07, 2006 #
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