Why is drama good? I attended the meeting and felt that the drama was rude people in the back who mimmick speakers and do not show courtesy. You do not see this in any other area district meetings. If you want to be on school board in the future focus on what you can bring to the table not on the drama.
posted by Teacher at 09:19 A.M. EST on Tue Aug 22, 2006 #
Let me rephrase this. I apologize how I worded it, but I think you have a lot to offer and I hope the drama is not a positive thing in your opinion. These are truly hard times and it is evident that many people who went to Cleveland were negligent in their jobs!!
posted by Teacher at 09:38 A.M. EST on Tue Aug 22, 2006 #
Teacher, yes there are comments from the crowd and you can hear them on the recording. Maybe I am used to them, but I understand how sometimes they seem out of place. Sometimes they are sometimes they are not. The drama I refer to is up front and everyone that sits up there. If you were there, you cannot deny that the different conversations between board members and between union officials and board members etc... were tense at times and you did not know where they were going. There is no doubt this is challenging and it is the people who sit up front who determine how challenging it will be.
posted by chrismyers at 10:39 A.M. EST on Tue Aug 22, 2006 #
Minutes can be downloaded here . No copyright feel free to use how you want. MP4 format, so it can play with just about any media program, but if you have a problem, please use Quicktime. It is around 33 MB, but it is a long meeting.
Enjoy:
The painters union had a sign out side expressing their displeasure with the board/district. I saw it as I was going into the board.
Meeting started at 5:33.
The meeting had an overflow crowd. The meeting was packed with issues and the board meeting became contentious at times.
Toledo Technology Academy started the meeting talking about the pace car they created for the Junior Achievement race. The created a H3 body for the card and converted it to run off ethanol. The students built it with support from GM and UAW workers from the Alexis plant, and teachers at the TTA.
The next topic was the levy. The meeting got contentious quickly. The first resolution, which passed, was about certifying the levy to present to the voters. Robert began the discussion by saying he was surprised at the resolution. He said there were still some issues that have not been addressed and was unable to support the levy. Larry Sykes asked what the issues were. Torres said that the administration did not look at other numbers and did not give enough information to guarantee support even though the poll showed they did not have support.
Darlene said to a comment that they need to discuss this issue out in public. Darlene said she understood the funding issues and the value of the employees. Larry Sykes said you should speak with I, not we as in the board.
Darlene said a levy would be a difficult sell. Darlene said putting a levy on now would be a short-term gain, but will lose residents in the long term. Darlene mentioned new management would be an issue. She asked the treasurer about the obligations the district would have if passed. The treasurer said there would be an obligation but they would not collect all of the money immediately. Darlene said she was worried about a cash shortfall.
Larry Sykes said Robert Torres has not brought up any new ideas on how to save money. Steve Steel, said that he did not know what the wait was. He said that the board has known about the numbers for a while. He did not know what was the cause for the delay and wondered what would change. He wondered why there was delay.
5:53 PM or around 23 minutes into the meeting. Robert Torres said the poll did not support a levy. He said that they have the opportunity to work with the business community and community in general. He said they are not there.
Steven Steel said that he was elected not to be run by polls. He said there was no additional information brought forward and wondered what would change.
Larry Sykes said we could debate all night but it won’t fix anything. Larry Sykes said it is your right to not support, but if you don’t support the levy, you don’t support teachers and kids. There was a big outcry from the crowd after Larry said this.
Torres said they are not the only stakeholders and that the relationship is not more than the board.
Darlene Fisher said that she wanted a complete look at the budget and solicit ideas on how to fix the problems.
She wanted to create a community report card and wanted to the district to prove it spent all the dollars wisely.
At 6 PM or 30 minute into the meeting there was a call for the vote. The resolution to create the ballot language passed 3 to 2, Fisher and Torres voting against it.
A representative from the county auditor presented the numbers. He said at 7.99 mil the district would generate 23 million over 5 years.
Next the board was presented the resolution to the levy item. Robert Torres asked what is different. The administration said that this vote was to put the levy on the ballot. It appeared that both were walk in resolutions, meaning they were not on the agenda.
Darlene Fisher said the levy mileage is important. They wanted to compete.
Steven Steel said that they just closed schools. He asked if Darlene was the chair of the finance committee.
Larry Sykes said that they should not play games. He said the only way to save money is to close schools. He said you only save on salaries. Larry Sykes said they have done everything and teachers needed a raise. He said that you will kill the district if you vote it down.
He said that Robert always says he came from nothing, and wondered how he could prevent this.
Robert Torres said they are not being creative in looking for ways to make up the budget format. Robert said the district asks the community to give, but the district needs to give back. He also said to Larry that he had an opportunity last year to put the levy on and they pulled it. They pulled it because they thought it was the bad timing, and he wanted the respect to know that it was the bad timing now.
The vote occurred and it was 3 yes, 2 no (Fisher Torres). The resolution failed because law says you need 2/3 vote.
Foley then presented a resolution to vote to put a levy on in February. He said there has not been new money since 2001. He wanted a vote on a plan to vote to put a levy on the ballot in Feb.
6:20 PM or around 50 minutes into the meeting, Steel asked about the burden that time would put. He asked about the deficit. The treasurer said that there would be a 13 million def. at the end of the year. Darlene asked if they vote would this lock them into a vote. She asked about negotiating reductions to produce savings. Darlene asked about studying different health insurance plans. She said they should produce savings so that they would not need to ask for a bigger levy.
Steven Steel asked about the need, because they have had 8 months.
Robert Torres wondered if there would be any changes by November, the date when they wanted to vote to put the levy on the ballot. He said if there were no changes, then he may not support the levy again.
The vote was taken and it passed 5-0.
At 6:32 or 1 hr into the meeting the HR committee presented.
They presented Pat Maser (sp?) new communications director.
They also presented Dan Romano, new business manager.
They also presented Carol Anne Thomas, new HR ex assistant.
At 6:34 PM or 1 hr 1 minutes into the meetings citizen comments started.
The first comment was from Carmel Smith a Scott HS graduate. He wished to improve the quality at Scott HS. He wanted to abolish the 4-school plan. He wanted a principal for the school. He was concerned about the quality of education. He said the board did not care or they did not know.
Sykes asked where he worked. He said for the Horizons Academy, he was a principal there. Larry asked if he was certified, he said no, but that did not affect his judgment.
The next speaker was Charmet Jones a teacher who wanted to be at Scott HS. She tried applying to teach after leaving and taking classes and she was told there were no openings. Robert Torres encouraged her to not give up and to try again.
The next was Cheryl Catlin. She talked about Scott HS and the achievement gaps. She said she has the public data and will watch it. She said that the board knows what works and should apply it. She wanted to get to a 75% goal.
Darlene Fisher said that we need to celebrate our accomplishments and address problems. Larry Sykes asked if she had a child in TPS. Cheryl said she did not because she was frightened and wanted to be in a school that valued academics. Someone in the crowd asked Larry where he sent his kids.
The next speaker was Francis Dumbyia (sp?) . He said that Foley did not send his kids to public school. He read a list of schools and the grades they go. He said if your schools had this performance, would you put your kids in school. He said there was resistance to meeting their group’s demands. He said they were willing to negotiate their demands.
Around 6:55 or 1.5 hrs into the meeting. Alicia Murphy encouraged the boycott of Scott HS. She said the board did not support them.
Next was Joe Mold, who was a University of Toledo employee. He said that there was a communication breakdown with the district. He had a kid who had autism and they were cutting back on the help and not returning phone calls.
The next person complained about an employee that was abusing children.
The next speaker, Theodore Sheldon, who owned a cement company complained about the lack of minority contractors in the building plan.
Larry Sykes asked if he got any business. Mr. Sheldon said they have received some repair jobs but nothing big. Larry said he would like to meet with contractors
Robert Torres said that he wanted to meet with contractors to deal with the issues.
Lisa Szbecki (sp?) said that they put out 250 signs over the weekend. She said the Point Place business community was willing to support the district. They paid for the signs themselves. She said there is lots of positive stories they needed could talk about. Robert Torres said that Lisa has put in a tremendous amount of time volunteering in the district.
Ralf Treece talked about the building plan and encouraged the board to do more remodeling.
1 Hr 51 minutes into the meeting – the painter union rep., Brian Outland talked about a company that is employing sexual offenders. The board seemed surprised. Robert Torres asked if this was the first complaint against this company. Brian said yes.
Tyrone Sturdivant talked about the Toledo Plan. He also asked if there was mandatory freshman orientation at Scott and if this applied to other HS.
Twila Paige was the next speaker. She asked that the board honor Dan Burns’ plan on renovating Scott HS. She said she demanded a new principal for the HS. She also wanted a moratorium on out of district transfers. If the district did not meet the requirements, she would encourage everyone to not vote against the levy, and attend the board meetings to see the waste of their money, as well as withholding children during district count.
Earl Murry said everyone should come together and create a roundtable to tackle and address issues. He also considered the union leaders to be featured in the news so everyone can see.
The next speaker, Tyrone Cunningham said he would not allow Scott HS to die. Speaking on behalf of the alumni association, he said they support a single principal; supporting honor classes being restored, encourage academic programs to compete in a global world. He said they did not encourage the boycott.
There was a 10-minute recess although it went on for about 15 minutes or so.
When the board came back the Toledo Federation of Teachers rep talked about her issues. He congratulated staff on the continuous improvement. She said that Darlene did not talk to leadership. She said that the deficit was affecting the ability to retain teachers. She said that there were 42 vacancies that were not filled and wondered when they would be filled because school was starting soon. She said they must be hired this week. Fran said that the district should not balance the budget on the backs of the employees.
Larry Sykes said the admin has a team that meet with the unions.
Steel requested that they go through the committees for these issues.
Steven Steel presented the curriculum committee report. He talked about applying what was going on in the academies to the rest of the district.
Robert Torres presented the policy committee recommendations. They talked about the uniform policy and modeled some uniforms from Scott HS.
There was a bunch of discussion on the uniform policy and how each are determined. Larry did not seem to like the new Scott uniforms. The district is allowing the HS to determine what they want.
Around 8:47 PM or 3 hrs into the meeting.
Next was the OFSC report. The new business manager and treasurer presented a report.
The superintendent report included the passage of several resolutions. One was a bid on an insurance consultant, which went to Brooks insurance. Robert Torres asked if they could look at a minority company for building insurance.
Darlene reported on her meeting with the mayor.
Steven Steel said that he was wondering about the super search. He said he did not look at the materials before the meeting, but knew that they need to prepare the materials.
Larry Sykes asked if there was a state law mandating certification for superintendent. Foley said it was and that only temporary or certified employees could hold the job.
The meeting adjourned at 9:17 pm.
posted by chrismyers at 10:48 A.M. EST on Tue Aug 22, 2006 #
I cannot begin to express my displeasure at the meeting. Here are several of my concerns:
How can you be chair of the HR committee and not know the hiring policies - Debbie Barnett??
Why is a noncertified Administrator being referred to as a demand at Scott? Could that not be explained to parents kindly?
Why are the Board and Administrators being blamed for the small schools concept that the teachers at Libbey and Scott voted on? Rogers staff voted no.
Where is the recruitment and retention committee that Ms. Fisher promised months ago? I guarantee the district will take a 2500 student hit during the first count.
Are Fran's #'s accurate. She said it was an incorrect projection however the numbers came from her and Craig Cotner.
Just a few of my concerns in addition to rude parents who do not even have children in the district.
posted by Teacher at 11:27 A.M. EST on Tue Aug 22, 2006 #
Teacher, all of your concerns are good ones. I don't know the answers to them. Let's see what others say.
posted by chrismyers at 01:32 P.M. EST on Tue Aug 22, 2006 #
Sorry I missed a meeting. Lots going on here and only one of me to go around.
The 'drama' among the school board during their meetings has been very insightful in helping to determine who's interested in being helpful and who's just interested in the large dollar contracts or stirring up trouble with other board members when they are speaking.
That's why I thought if their meetings were recorded and available to the public (who is normally at work on on the way to or from work when they meet) that behavior might improve.
Teacher asks very good questions. I hope they are answered. I also wonder why it is that Robert Torres keeps asking about local/minority businesses getting a fair shake on the large dollar contracts and nobody ever seems to answer him.
That's fair - we already have alot of staff who take their wages to other cities, why aren't we making sure that Toledo area businesses are getting a fair shake? And the minority owned business question is a fair one. That should have been answered the first time it was asked. ARE minority owned businesses being given the same opportunity to bid as all the other businesses?
posted by katie82640 at 01:41 P.M. EST on Tue Aug 22, 2006 #
I have a concern about questioning where people work and whether or not they have children in the TPS system. Those things shouldn't matter IF you are a resident of the TPS district who pays the taxes to support the schools.
posted by MaggieThurber at 04:13 P.M. EST on Tue Aug 22, 2006 #
The rule used to be (and is still a term of employment in places like Cleveland and Cincinnati) was that a public school teacher lived in the community they taught in. Many of our teachers live outside of TPS.
That's not necessarily bad in my opinion but the economic repercussion is damaging if salaried teachers are spending their money in another cities economy. Toledo needs all the help we can get - holding teacher hostage to those terms isn't necessarily the solution - but it's a loss to us since that change.
In August of '03 the school board called for a review of the policy that allowed teachers on the roll that lived outside the district.
Your concern was about teachers who live IN the district - my concern is about those who live outside. Another loss of economic revenue for the city.
Although with current events - I've considered moving outside Toledo for the last six months.
Fight? Or flight? That is the question.
posted by katie82640 at 04:52 P.M. EST on Tue Aug 22, 2006 #
Once again, Chris, great job.
If Sykes wants to ask these questions, then it seems fair that the public knows how many TPS employees live outside Toledo, and how many TPS employees send their kids to schools other than TPS.
posted by jr at 05:01 P.M. EST on Tue Aug 22, 2006 #
Let's start this off on a positive note: It could be worse.
To illustrate, the recent issue of Forbes has a delightful exposition by His Fiscal Majesty himself, Steve Forbes, titled "Blasting the Blob". It goes into some details about a class-action lawsuit (Crawford v. Davy) filed in part by a father in a New Jersey case against his children's school system. Mr Crawford just wants to get his kids out of the filth that his local school system had become. If we think we have problems with the TPS, just imagine being in a public school system that:
• spends $17000 per student
• has an average teacher salary over $76000
• has 80% of the high school student body failing in math
The base idea we have to get across to the public and particularly public-school officials is that although state constitutions mandate education of children, there is NO such correspsonding mandate (explicitly or implicitly) that such education has to be provided by a public school system as is so often organized in cities and towns. The issue of parental choice of educational outlet is utterly correct and all movements away from enabling that choice is by definition the wrong move.
The lawsuit mentioned above specifically covers the idea that a lack of resources is NOT the problem in troubled educational districts. This article says:
"It is difficult to argue that the deficiencies are a result of lack of resources. The average per-pupil expenditure in each of the defendant school districts exceeds $10,000 -- in many cases, closer to $20,000 -- far above the national average."
So, I'd have to say that Fisher and Torres are right on target. They were right to refuse to levy-out this disgusting set of systemic problems to the public. Getting more money from the taxpayers is not the answer. Trimming schools is part of the right answer. Furthermore, the recent Blade article on this meeting mentioned specifically that Torres wanted to go over 'high dollar' items in order to target cost savings. I'm hoping that 'high dollar' is a code phrase for "army of overpaid do-nothing administrators", and also that Torres and Fisher have the gumption to demand that such an army be mustered out.
P.S. This article alleges a few excuses by school officials that should sound quite familiar to TPS-watchers:
• ''The New Jersey Education Association thinks [the lawsuit is] a "PR" stunt[.]''
• ''The school board president in Camden thinks the lawsuit is "outrageous." ''
• ''The Superintendent of one of the districts named recently said she doesn't think the answer is to take away money from the public schools.''
• ''Another school board member in another district believes we all need to work together and make the public schools better, not abandon them.''
Brr! Deja vu like this can get fairly chilly!
posted by GuestZero at 12:40 A.M. EST on Wed Aug 23, 2006 #
In regards to Mrs. Thurbers comments, I was inquiring as to why parents of children who don't have students at Scott are criticizing the small schools. To me, the parents should be meeting with the school teachers and small school leaders. I have heard many positive comments from parents that I tutor younger siblings. I understand that they are all taxpayers but on topics such as this, I feel it should be parents who have a vested interest. Concerning the levy and past inadequacies of the board I have no problem. Furthermore the Lincoln Academy has shown what can happen when everyone buys into success. With so many people in attendance from the Scott community I would like to see more community groups working with Fulton, Pickett, Hale and Robinson.
posted by Teacher at 10:41 A.M. EST on Wed Aug 23, 2006 #
Teacher - I understand your concern, but also it's worth mentioning that for those of us that don't have children at all we still pay those taxes. We pay to build new schools, etc. This is part of how your property value is determined when you try to sell your home. If you have a home in a school district that is under performing, then your home (mansion or bungalow) is not worth near as much as you think. No matter how nice or well kept it is.
We all need to work together to help TPS succeed. There are a couple of stumbling blocks to this achievement, IMO, and it rests with some of the more 'seasoned' board members. Fresh members with fresh ideas and opinions are what's needed.
That's just my $.02 worth.
posted by DoknowDocare at 11:38 A.M. EST on Wed Aug 23, 2006 #
I agree with you on everything you said. Sometimes, a pilot program needs to be monitored closer. It usually goes 3 years. Another issue. Does anybody not wonder why John Foley did not ask Jan Kilbride to comment on the fact that Scott does have Honors classes as stated in the Toledo Blade today. Is she another one who doesn't know her job that well or what is going on in her area of expertise???
posted by Teacher at 01:23 P.M. EST on Wed Aug 23, 2006 #
Next year there will be an election. Both Larry Sykes' and Deborah Barnetts' terms will be up.
doknow said it well - we need some fresh faces. I will vote for Chris Myers if he'll run.
posted by katie82640 at 04:39 P.M. EST on Wed Aug 23, 2006 #
TEACHER
Let me start by saying that I am a home owner in the Scott feeder pattern.
I was one of the "rude" people in the back so I will tell you how I came to be "rude."
First of all I have five school age children and three school age grandchildren. Two attend Scott one attends Bowling Green State University (home schooled) 2nd year, two I home school and three grandchildren attend a charter school but live in the Scott feeder pattern/Old West End, also in a home that I own. So I do have a vested interest. I think that is a double vested interest.
Why I am criticizing the small school is because it is an experiment that is not working. There are no honor's classes at Scott, what they do have are honors credits. A student signs a contract to do x, y or Z and then receives honors credits. An honors class is a class in which not only do you get honors credits but you have a course that is being taught on a higher level of thinking, etc. Such as, if you are teaching math to a first grader. You would teach 1 plus 1 equals 2. In an honors class you would teach the basics that 1 plus 1 equals 2 but you would carry it further and teach a plus 1 equals 2 and b plus 1 equals 2, therefore a plus b equals 2. That will tell you that a is 1 and b is also 1.
This is a pretty simplistic view but the concept requires a higher level of thinking and teaching. It requires a more disciplined work ethic and will better prepare you for college. It requires a committment from teachers to think that the student can learn and are not throw away kids.
The honors credits are credits that are given for contracts that students sign to get honors credits. They sign contracts to be at school on time (which to me is a given and not wothy of extra credit), to do extra assignments, to hand in homework on time and other things that can be thought up to call a class an honors class. This is crap!!!!! This school prepares students for prison not college.
On the issue of the Principal not being certified. Dan Burns was not certified to do anything but was appointed the Business Manager of TPS. It is my understanding that he came from the mail room. TPS gives waivers and extra time for teachers, principals and anyone to become certified all of the time. There were no demands there were requests.
Lincoln and Continuous Improvement, Lincoln did not meet AYP and received 2 out of 10 indicators. Of the 16 schools in AA neighborhoods that were in academic emergency last school year, three were closed permanently, seven remained on academic emergency, five went to academic watch, one (lincoln) went to continuous improvement. none received AYP and none reached over 2 indicator out of 10 and the Middle schools received 0 out of five except for one that received 1 out of 5 indicators.
And you think I should be quiet? My neighborhood schools are in crisis and to me it is an emergency. Scott High School from what I have been told was one of the best high schools in the city and now it does not function as a school at all. It is also the oldest with the greatest needs but is last on the list to be renovated or rebuilt. A week before school starts and gang grafitti is still on the front door where it has been all summer and you think I should be quiet?
Most Scott students love it because it is very socially stimulating. Not much learning was going on last year and there will be even less going on this school year, four small schools or twenty four small schools.. The uniform policy is going to be a large issue that will
loom on the first day of school. Now, some schools are relaxing their uniform policy and others are going to be very strict. The will be no consistency, just as there is no consistent discipline policy.
TPS is in a mess and instead of embracing any of our suggestions( or any of our suggestions over a 10 year period) or trying to find some common ground TPS had dug in it's heels and we aren't going away as long as there is a dual system within TPS. We demand a quality education for all students. We have high expectations of our students, dreams and aspirations, and from the teachers we expect that they honor those dreams, aspirations and expectations. Nothing more, nothing less.
posted by purnhrt at 11:46 P.M. EST on Wed Aug 23, 2006 #
PPS
Until there is some sincere movement we will urge parents to not vote for any levy, attend board meetings and to not send their student to school during the Enrollment Count Week in October.
Here is what I read at the Board Meeting so that there is no mistake about what I said.
To: Toledo Public School Board and Superintendent John Foley August 21, 2006
Re: The restoration of Jessup W. Scott High School, structurally, academically, and programmatically must begin immediately.
From: The Concerned Citizens Group In Support of Toledo Public School’s African American Students.
Hereby requests the Board’s Responses on the Following:
1.That Dan Burns’ commitment to the Scott building plan presented to the Alumni Association on April 14, 2005, be honored and that this plan must start within the next twelve months.
2.That Scott High School return to a world wide Principal/Headmaster system and that this system be implemented for the school year 2006-2007.
3.That Scott High School must hire a highly qualified, capable, competent principal, vested in the school and community. Our recommendation for this position is Carnel Smith, a former Scottstudent and teacher who will finish his PHD degree at BGSU by the end of this year 2006.
4.Beginning school year 2007-2008 we are asking for a moratorium on all out of district transfers
WHY THE REQUESTS?
These four requests are of utmost importance because without them Scott has deteriorated both academically and structurally into a school that continues to be a failure. Scott has no organized parent group, no honors classes, offers only one foreign language, which is Spanish, sends it’s best students, (academically) to Bowsher/ Start and other schools on Out of District Transfers, thereby depleting the school of it scholars, while not bringing in students from other schools to replace them. The Skill Center and the programs that were successful in the past have been dismantled. This Skill Center started by the late Flute Rice was one of the gems of the Toledo Public School System. Consequently the school is a haven for discord in the community.
Unless the School Board orders that the Superintendent facilitate these request in a timely manner and negotiate fairly and in good faith we will encourage, strongly, that all Scott Feeder Pattern parents/guardians:
1. Vote against the next TPS levy.
2. Attend Board meetings on a monthly basis to see what their money is being spent on and see which board members are making good decisions that affect their school.
3. Ask that parents/guardians keep their student home during the Enrollment Count Week during the first week in October for either one, two, three, four or five days.
Scott High School is the oldest TPS high school in the district, built in 1911 and has produced some of Toledo’s most illustrious people, black and white. We must Bring Scott Back to high academic standards, high quality extra curricular programs, to it’s structural beauty and its restored place in the city of Toledo.
This is not what was reported in the Blade but this is what I said at the Board meeting
posted by purnhrt at 11:57 P.M. EST on Wed Aug 23, 2006 #
Thank you purnhrt.
posted by MrsPhoenix at 09:34 A.M. EST on Thu Aug 24, 2006 #
Are there any community members who attend committee meetings, such as the Finance or Curriculum committees, when they meet?
I believe that it is an available option for citizens to attend the committee and planning meetings. And I think it should happen. I say this because most of the time in the public meetings the resolutions are announced by number and a short summary is read. The public rarely has a chance to understand what the vote is being called for, let alone bring suggestions, community options the board isn't aware of or objections.
I can't do it. I'm already stretched too thin and I missed the meeting on the 21st.
But isn't it important that a representative from the community be aware of the rationale and the responsible parties for these decisions before they're presented for a vote?
And I hear you purnhrt. Our children are our future and this cities' future. Every single one of them in every single school deserve the very best we can give them in preparation for adult life. It needs to start getting done.
And if you have 'gang' graffiti on the front door of your school, your group needs to approach the Mayor and the Chief of Police and tell them to get some of the officers that are on 'administrative' duties, off of their butts and onto a foot patrol and SOLVE THAT PROBLEM.
posted by katie82640 at 09:35 A.M. EST on Thu Aug 24, 2006 #
katie82640
The mayor and Navarre are too busy denying that there is a gang problem. So if you have gang grafitti in the middle of your street they won't even send anyone out to clean it up, because it does not exist. Much less the schoolhouse door.
posted by purnhrt at 10:33 A.M. EST on Thu Aug 24, 2006 #
Chris, thanks for the hard work and helping the community to get first hand information unfiltered by our local paper!
Teacher, I have been going to school board meetings including special and committee meetings for over 10 years. Granted I have not been to all of them nor have I stayed the entire time. Nonetheless, I have probably observed 60% or more of what has transpired. Further, I have seen how 3 superintendents and 16 different board members have handled the business of the district over this time.
I got involved when my youngest child was still in elementary school. Both of my children are now in college, but I realized just how important a quality education system is as a cornerstone to a prosperous and productive community. I also understand how much a drag a poor system is on a community as is the case with TPS. Practically all the administrators and board members over the past 10 years seem to think that if only the community knew about all the success stories they would embrace us and support us. These individuals are charter members of the “the only thing wrong with public education is the public’s perception of public education” club. Previous boards and administrators have done their best to sweep the problems under the carpet. They refute the claims with misleading facts and half truths, they claim that anyone who brings an issue before the board has an axe to grind, they focus on the solution and dismiss it while ignoring the problem that prompted the proposed solution or they attempt to crucify the messenger hoping that by tarnishing the messenger the message will be dismissed or at least overlooked.
At no time have the salient questions been asked when someone identifies an issue: Are these issues legitimate regardless of the demands or proposed solutions? What information and facts do we have available to review the situation? What are the possible solutions that could meet the concerns, not necessarily the demands? ….
The administration does not share information and set people down together and say: Can we agree on the situation and facts? Now that we know the facts, what solutions including those presented are available to us? Can we agree on a plan of action knowing that some situations will take time to fully implement? What are the time frame involved and the benchmarks to evaluate the program that we can agree upon?
Fisher and Torres are the only board members I have seen that have challenged the other board members and staff to look at the issues and stop trying to assassinate the character of those that bring the problems to you. From what I can ascertain, they believe the district must prove itself by addressing the pressing issues before them.
Let me see if I can provide some insight into the questions you have asked throughout this thread.
How can you be chair of the HR committee and not know the hiring policies - Debbie Barnett??
Through observation at board and committee meetings I believe that Ms. Barnett looks at the Board as something you put on your resume and get patted on the back for your selfless sacrifice for the children. She has never come prepared. She seldom asks questions and when she does they are questions she should long ago have had the answers to. At the last meeting, I don’t think she added anything to the discussion except to indicate her utter unpreparedness of the position she holds in the public interest.
Why is a noncertified Administrator being referred to as a demand at Scott? Could that not be explained to parents kindly?
This is not the demand; however, some have identified a person that would require certification. But the real issue is that there is a perceived concern that procedural rules are being used to limit the diversity in the staff within the TPS. Many see these “rules” as a form of institutional racism (I am one that feels this way). At the same time, rules seem to be waived or overcome if the person fits the right profile or has the right connections. I don’t believe those making the demands wish to see unqualified people responsible for their children. But hiring practices must be fair and rules that appear arbitrary must be justified or discarded. There is probably a middle ground here, but TPS has all the cards and they really won’t discuss the rules of the game and how they can be applied fairly to all while finding a means to get minority teachers and administrators in positions and to be fully qualified. I’m sure you know the statistics regarding the number of AA students vs. AA faculty. Toledo was at the last census 22% AA. TPS’ staff comes is below that percentage and well below the percentage of AA students attending TPS. I think the concern is real, but the solutions are difficult given the current environment. That does not mean we can continue to avoid such problems simply because they are challenging and solutions are not easy.
Why are the Board and Administrators being blamed for the small schools concept that the teachers at Libbey and Scott voted on? Rogers staff voted no.
First, why should a concept such as small schools be implemented or not based upon a majority vote of teachers? Policy belongs at the board level. Teachers and administrators are the experts that are called upon to provide background, identify solutions and recommend actions. However, there are other stakeholders that also can provide input into a proposed action. The board is responsible for seeing that the homework is done, the pros and cons are properly addressed, there are benchmarks to monitor the process and that it is monitored. Personally I am in favor of setting an educational environment, such as small schools, and requiring staff to interview for the positions open (come to think of it didn’t the TFT agree to this very concept with Grove Patterson and Old West End?). The school has a philosophy and the staff applies based upon their interest. Votes by teachers always means there will be some who don’t agree and we all know how hard people work to implement solutions that they don’t agree with – don’t we? BTW – Rogers teachers first voted for the small school proposal and then after some were upset with implementation (e.g. who was going to get the school leaders positions) so another vote was held and teachers were persuaded to vote no the second time.
FYI – Here is a link to a story in Business Week-regarding the Gates Foundation and how their projects/experiments have fared. You will note that a school in Denver – sounds similar to Scott – used the small schools concept and the school is now closed. IMO, this article is a must read if you are interested in this subject.
Where is the recruitment and retention committee that Ms. Fisher promised months ago? I guarantee the district will take a 2500 student hit during the first count.
The recruitment committee is an ad hoc committee that has been meeting. I don’t think any of us could begin to believe that a committee just set up a few months ago could have much impact on student retention this year or maybe even next year. This is especially true when TPS still seems to think slogans can win back students – Still the Best Choice. How does this convince those that have left or are experiencing the frustrations from coming back or staying? How long will someone keep buying a generally inferior or failing product because of a catchy marketing slogan? Successful students will keep families and bring families back!
I believe you are right about the 2500 students – which will mean an enrollment of just over 27,000 students.
Are Fran's #'s accurate. She said it was an incorrect projection however the numbers came from her and Craig Cotner.
The actual number of positions to cut is an estimate based upon the budget deficit. After the estimate is put together, contractual terms require that those being furloughed must be notified by a certain date. Events can occur after these termination letters are sent such as changes in the funds necessary to cover expenses, e.g., the self insured health plan, or they may have more teachers retire than anticipated. This means that teachers may have to be called back to fill these positions or funds are now available to fund a position – generally it is the former. The real problem is that the district has not notified people of these positions and that they are unfilled. This is a function of HR and obviously they are not operating very effectively – to say the least.
Projections are estimates and estimates are only as good as the information and experience you have as an input.
Just a few of my concerns in addition to rude parents who do not even have children in the district.
I understand that they are all taxpayers but on topics such as this, I feel it should be parents who have a vested interest.
Here are my thoughts. The “rude” individuals all have a vested interest in the district regardless of whether they are parents or not. Just because someone is not the parent of a child in TPS does not mean that we don’t have children in the system that we care about. I have friends, neighbors and colleagues who have children in TPS. Why would I not care about these kids? I have gone to birthdays, graduations, and honors ceremonies for children that I know but are not related to me! I love these kids and I care about these kids. But regardless, I do know that all these kids will be making decisions affecting my life and I’d rather they were well educated.
I have watched numerous board members and administrators use this argument to undermine the legitimacy of the issues brought before them. It is a tactic to divert attention and avoid the issue. Why do we care if they are parents or not? Should we not be concerned about whether their concerns are valid and merit attention?
I have found many parents to be unwilling to bring their case, no matter how justified, before the board. Remember their children are in the schools and classrooms of the people and practices they are criticizing. And please don’t tell me you have not seen situations where the children have borne the brunt of their parent’s actions. Sometimes it’s best for those of us without that type of interest to address the issue.
As to rude people, you are right that the crowd was vocal and expressed their views. Okay, even if they were rude in your opinion, should you write off their concerns because of their perceived behavior? I personally felt that most of the criticism coming from the audience was justified based upon the way the board has treated community members for years. This is what happens when people get frustrated after years of asking and made to feel powerless and being ridiculed publicly for speaking out. Respect is earned and I don’t think anyone that has been associated with the board and administration of this district in the past several has really cared about the fact that it is the community that "owns" the school district and they all serve at our pleasure. We have a right to expect results, we have a right to question, we have a right speak out - no we have an obligation to speak out when we know a problem exists.
I would prefer we all act as adults, gather the information, sit down together and come to conclusions as to the problems and find solutions based upon the problems that have been jointly agreed upon. But that takes two parties to work together and TPS is a fortress apart from this community!
posted by sflagg at 10:45 A.M. EST on Thu Aug 24, 2006 #
I've seen alot of emotion in the audience at times during the meetings. Sflagg, your group has worked on public education issues in Toledo for a decade or more - is that correct?
I've seen people get frustrated, angry and in several instances upset enough to cry.
It's an emotional issue for the people who's involvement is their children's welfare, their community school - and many people attended those same schools in years past and remember better times. People who wonder if their children are going to suffer economically as adults because these parents know they aren't providing the education the kids could have. That they should have.
This is all very emotional stuff. We don't know what the teachers are thinking about all this because I don't believe teachers are allowed to speak at the board meetings. Anybody know the rationale behind that rule? I don't. But it seems to me educational issues would be better addressed if the professional educators were involved. Maybe I'm wrong. Happens alot.
I think that when people have faced the same problem year after year that you will see a reaction out of them. And I think that's only human.
I know a story about a woman who worked on these issues for many years, brought some issues forward, left her children in the public school system while she knew they could become targets because of her activism yet just couldn't seem to get resolution to the issues.
You may all know her as well. She's currently the President of our school board.
posted by katie82640 at 02:24 P.M. EST on Thu Aug 24, 2006 #
Sflagg said: individuals all have a vested interest in the district regardless of whether they are parents or not
Truer words have never been spoken (or typed). I am not a parent. I don't have children. But I do have a stake in the public school system.
As a citizen, and a taxpayer, the effectiveness of the school system causes me great concern in relation to my property values, the amount of property taxes I pay, and the lack of real education that some children are receiving.
I know teachers, for the most part, are doing everything they can to teach. But as employees of the district they have to teach within the parameters set by the board. Mostly budgetary limitations from what I have seen.
Until we (ALL of us) realize that we entrust the responsibility of education to teachers for 12 or more years of our childrens lives, and so must support those men and women who actually spend more time with the children than the parents do. (Generalization here, don't get upset.) For this great responsibility we reward the teachers with an inadequate system and a lack of supplies.
If we support our children and the teachers we will come away with a win-win. The key to better education is the tools to teach. You can't build a house without a hammer, and you can't teach a child to read without books.
And, IMO, Darlene Fisher and Robert Torres are a very positive step. Getting Chris Myers up there with them is next. Now we just need one more concerned/dedicated person to step up and completely re-furnish the board.
posted by DoknowDocare at 04:02 P.M. EST on Thu Aug 24, 2006 #
No answer from Chris Myers. I wonder if he can be enticed to run again?
I think people are far wiser than they were last November. We got part of the job done - now we see the need for a clean sweep.
posted by katie82640 at 04:07 P.M. EST on Thu Aug 24, 2006 #
as for this:
"The mayor and Navarre are too busy denying that there is a gang problem. So if you have gang grafitti in the middle of your street they won't even send anyone out to clean it up, because it does not exist. Much less the schoolhouse door.
Ouch!!! posted by purnhrt at 11:33 A.M. EDT on Thu Aug 24, 2006"
I plan to and anybody who's incensed at the idea that a gang has marked a school house door in our city and it went unaddressed, should also call the Mayor's office.
Children will be going to school there in a matter of days. A gang marked the school. What do those who manage our city services need to alert them to this problem - the bodies of children? C'mon!
Contact info is here
posted by katie82640 at 04:20 P.M. EST on Thu Aug 24, 2006 #
I've no intention of dissing Mr Myers, but Mr Flagg should consider running for the TPS Board. We need activist candidates to provide a viable alternative to the "safe bets" of people voting resignedly for Barnett and Sykes. Besides, watching Barnett or Sykes sitting next to Mr Flagg and stewing in their own juices is just to precious a possibility to reject.
For current TPS management, the medium has become the message and we have little to nothing else to work with after that. It's all style and no substance. The do-nothing Board members and administrators quite simply have to be voted out and fired.
posted by GuestZero at 04:28 P.M. EST on Thu Aug 24, 2006 #
Wonder if we can get a comment from Mr. Myers and Mr. Flagg.
That'd sure change things around wouldn't it?
:-)
posted by katie82640 at 05:47 P.M. EST on Thu Aug 24, 2006 #
barnett and sykes terms will be up. those are the only seats up for election. therefore steve and barnett and sykes will not sit together. we need to get sykes and barnett out. I doubt if either runs for school board.
posted by purnhrt at 07:56 P.M. EST on Thu Aug 24, 2006 #
It'll be comical to watch if they do try to run. I'd actually buy a ticket to see that show.
We just need to make sure they don't groom their own replacements.
posted by katie82640 at 09:53 P.M. EST on Thu Aug 24, 2006 #
"There was a bunch of discussion on the uniform policy and how each are determined. Larry did not seem to like the new Scott uniforms. The district is allowing the HS to determine what they want."
The Early College HS is allowing their students to wear jeans. I think they realized that the students wanted to dress like other college students and not stand out in nerdy pants that have high waistlines. That is not fair. My daughter would love to wear jeans but can't attend the Early College HS. She is attending PSO college classes and should be able to wear jeans too. What did the Scott HS "uniforms" look like? I wasn't at the meeting. Don't call them uniforms because TPS refers to it as a dress code so they won't have to provide clothes to the hs students like they do in elementary and jr high.
posted by rebelrebel at 10:20 P.M. EST on Thu Aug 24, 2006 #
Mr. Flagg,
I appreciate your comments and insight. I guess sometimes teachers look at things from a different prospective. I do take offense when I hear teachers being criticized because I give 100% everyday. Like every profession, there are always people who should not be in that profession. But I do feel that certification is a must. Yes, I know that people have been put in jobs uncertified. But I can also tell you there have been more than you realize across the board. (quite racially balanced I might add) I can also tell you that I didn't become a teacher until I was 36, and as much as I thought I was a good substitute, the education I received to become certified was invaluable. I am also very disappointed in Dan Burns performance and completely blame Dr. Sanders for that. His pompous attitude at the end made me sick. But I also think he got that attitude from contractors who were receiving business. I do think the minority contracts or lack of are going to come back and haunt both of them. I do not think Dan Romano will cover for certain contractors anymore. He is a man of integrity who I have know for over 20 years. I think John has made some good appointments and deserves a fair chance. To criticize John for sending his children to St. Mary's when he was a teacher is totally unfair. You are a strong advocate through Parents for Public Schools, yet you didn't always choose public education. Correct?? I think that is your CHOICE. This is where I felt the rudeness came in. Robert Torres did not send his children either, so I felt it was unfair to single out certain people. If I was a parent in Hale or Pickett area and I felt that I was doing everything as a parent to help my child succeeed and was at the school weekly seeing what was going on, with no results, I would not hesitate to apply for a vouchure and go to Toledo Christian. Unfortunately, there is a lack of parent involvement yet we are budgeting 100,000.00 for 4 coordinators who I feel are useless. We have yet to have one turn up at my school. This is why I voted for Darlene, Chris and Robert last November. I do not have a problem with parents having an active role in our buildings. We need stronger parent involvement but we need to realize that in many building it doesn't exist. And these are many of our failing buildings. I was at Pickett believe me I know that it is rare to see a parent unless you are giving something away. The parent coordinator needs to step in and create a welcoming atmosphere that will make parents want to become involved. Mr. Flagg, I am of the belief that the majority of parents do the best that they know how. It may not be what you or I would do, but it is basically what they know. Darlene has said this many times. Sorry for the ramble, but I think that the Scott Community that has lost the most students to Charter of nay other needs to reflect on the lack of parent involvment in many schools. The coordinators role in my opinion should be to assess why?? Is the office not welcoming? Does the principal not encourage parent involvement (yes there are some that do not want it)? Does the teacher fail in communicating and explaining things to parents in a friendly, kind manner? These are major issues that I feel are being neglected and for that reason I forsee King parents to go elsewhere. Glenwood failed to show up at Hale last year, Warren failed to make it to Lagrange and Franklin didn't quite make it to Garfield. This year the combined three elementaries are 767. I'm anxious to see what happens. Who is contacting these parents to say, "what can we do to help make your transition easy?" The proof if in the pudding.
Oh well, I have rambled enough, keep up the fight, I guess I should only comment on what I know best.
posted by Teacher at 09:22 A.M. EST on Fri Aug 25, 2006 #
Teacher - you make some good points and you seem to be willing to open your mind and ask questions. I can understand how you can feel when teaching is questioned - I doubt that when those issues get raised that you are who is being questioned. Lawyers are the butt of many jokes and a lot of criticism. Some of it comes with the job and is obviously not valid for the majority of any profession. I'm not one to let parents off the hook either.
I'm pressed for time right now. I'll provide some insight later.
Enjoyed the comments about being a board member. Thanks for the chuckle. I'm supporting Chris Myers and we are looking for a second good candidate. For a number of reasons, I don't think I should be the other candidate. We will need money and volunteers. My email address is in my profile - let me know. It is never to early to start.
posted by sflagg at 05:17 P.M. EST on Fri Aug 25, 2006 #
Steve, I appreciate your support, but you may be jumping the gun a bit. I have not decided if I will run. In the comments I hear here, plus the many people who are encouraging me to try again off-line is really humbling and I appreciate it. I am sure everyone will know if I decide to run.
Teacher, thank you for your support last year. I am still certified to teach until the summer of next year, I have been on both sides of the desks so I appreciate your comments. As you hint at, there are many issues-from top to bottom-that are affecting the school system. I think that we both agree that good leadership is the cornerstone of a good system. What I have been doing by posting the audio and notes (and now pictures) is to let the community see who are good leaders and who are not. To me it is clear, and it seems like from what you were saying, it is clear to you too by observing what is going on. Many people sweep the school system under the rug, but it is one of the most important community/economic development tools a city has. The schools, especially TPS, must be the focus of the entire community because it can make or break a city. Let's not lose sight of this fact and any assistance to bring the district to the forefront and holding high expectations must be welcomed and encouraged.
posted by chrismyers at 06:43 P.M. EST on Fri Aug 25, 2006 #
teacher
While your comments are very disturbing to me, they just reflect my thoughts for our need for more minority teachers in the inner-city schools.
Parents are not wanted in Hale, Scott,Pickett, Warren, Glenwood (if it was open)or Lagrange. The police presence is greater than the parent presence. That is why parents are sending their children to charter, private and home school. They trust that their children will be safe and they can visit the schools (of choice)without giving 24 hours notice. Parents are able to better control their student's
education when they are welcomed into the school. Not like TPS where the TFT union contract says that you must give 24 hours notice before visiting the classroom and if you ask to visit too many times it is considered harassment and a safe school can be
filed on the parent.
"I was at Pickett believe me I know that it is rare to see a parent unless you are giving something away."
With all due respect to you as a teacher, with that statement I wouldn't want you to come within 20 feet of my child. The only thing you could give me is a quality education for my child, not bookbags, school supplies or a chicken dinner. Just the basics readin', ritin' and 'rithmatic. Nothing more nothing less.
"Mr. Flagg, I am of the belief that the majority of parents do the best that they know how. It may not be what you or I would do, but it is basically what they know."
Again with all due respect for you as a teacher, but when did you become the expert on parenting? And who is the "they"? The parents at Pickett? I have quite a few friends with children at Pickett. I think that is a very patronizing attitude for a teacher, which once again is an excellent reason for more minority teachers for schools like Pickett. And another excellent reason for me not to want you within 20 feet of my child.
When writing in a forum such as this people can say they are anything, because we don't know who each other is so for the sake of the children at these inner city schools I hope and pray that you are really not a teacher but maybe a waitress in a bar.
posted by purnhrt at 09:53 P.M. EST on Fri Aug 25, 2006 #
Oh, and Chris you got my vote!
posted by purnhrt at 09:56 P.M. EST on Fri Aug 25, 2006 #
purnhrt, thank you for that response! Teachers like "Teacher" probably mean well, but in the end do more damage than good...and are also the type of person that Czar Fran Lawrence fight to keep in while helping to kick out good teachers like Gloria Sturdivant (sp?)
posted by MrsPhoenix at 07:07 A.M. EST on Sat Aug 26, 2006 #
…teachers look at things from a different prospective.
We all look at situations “biased” by our own background and experience. This is where intellect is supposed to kick in and you have to ask yourself the how, what, why, where and when not to mention being willing to put yourself in someone else’s shoes. Have you put yourself in the shoes of an inner city parent struggling to raise a child?
Purnhrt is right when she says, “I am of the belief that the majority of parents do the best that they know how. It may not be what you or I would do, but it is basically what they know." When I say I am not one to let parents off the hook, I mean there is plenty of blame to go around. Teachers should certainly be more sympathetic and parents should make sure they understand all the facts before blaming a teacher. But my experience is that in general teachers in TPS don’t want to be bothered by parents. Administrators don’t want them in their buildings. And the board could care less – just don’t bother us with this!
You can’t have parent involvement if you are not willing to welcome parents, consider them partners in the education of their children, and make accommodations for the work schedule as any parent has to put food on the table above going to a PTO meeting or a parent-teacher conference. It is the teacher’s job to reach out to the parent (that is what we pay you guys for) and not the other way around. Although I do believe parents should attempt to engage teachers in a productive relationship that can benefit their child. Don’t take it wrong, parents also have responsibilities here!
But I do feel that certification is a must.
No disagreement in general. I said, “But, the real issue is that there is a perceived concern that procedural rules are being used to limit the diversity in the staff within the TPS.” I don’t have a problem with requiring that certain standards be met. I do have a problem with “rules” without a basis. Frankly, I would change some of the courses required for teaching which would change the certification – but that is another discussion. What I believe is necessary is to look at each individual case, ascertain any perceived deficiencies and then help those individuals attain certification. We can’t simply put this in black or white as I feel many would differ in some degree or another about certification standards. And frankly I’d give the same opportunity to all, but we have to admit there is dearth of minority teachers and it is going to get worse over the next several years as many who were recruited in the 70’s and 80’s are retiring and minority hiring has not been a priority for this district over the past 15 years that I have watched the district.
To criticize John for sending his children to St. Mary's when he was a teacher is totally unfair. You are a strong advocate through Parents for Public Schools, yet you didn't always choose public education. Correct??
John Foley is superintendent of TPS. His choices for his children are subject to community review since he is under Ohio state law a “public servant”. Mr. Foley may have legitimate reasons for selecting schools other than TPS for his children. However, it is perfectly legitimate for community members to point it out. It is his job to explain his choice or not. If he does not explain why he is not supporting the system that provides him income, he should expect the criticism to continue.
How does anyone think they can promote a district as “Still the Best Choice” if they don’t send their kids to TPS or won’t explain why? Do you think we should believe them when they don’t put their money where their mouth is? I’m not promoting TPS as “Still the Best Choice”.
I might also add that life is not fair and never was fair. We should strive for a standard of fairness, but in reality seldom is anything really fair.
…we are budgeting 100,000.00 for 4 coordinators who I feel are useless.
Now this is something we can really agree upon – they are useless and it is a waste of money. The coordinators are there to keep tabs on parents, feed them propaganda that people like myself are “bad” and you don’t want anything to do with them, to divide parents so they don’t get organized and to be workers when it is time for a levy. There is more here. We could also say the same about the district ombudsman – now there is a real waste of money.
The coordinators role in my opinion should be to assess why?? Is the office not welcoming? Does the principal not encourage parent involvement (yes there are some that do not want it)? Does the teacher fail in communicating and explaining things to parents in a friendly, kind manner?
While I believe we can go further here – I could not agree more! Also, there are more than some principals that don’t want parent involvement when you consider those that only want parent involvement on their terms. I would say that 80% or more really don’t want “genuine” parent involvement because that would mean making parents part of the governance structure of each local school.
The district does not want parent involvement for if they did parents would be part of the discipline process. Right now TPS determines innocence or guilt, doles out the punishment and by excluding parents becomes the de facto parent. Parents are naturally going to want to come to the aid of their children. When you place the parent in an adversarial role, you get an adversary instead of an ally. Parents are the only constant in a child’s life and they are responsible for everything affecting their children 24/7 for 18 years! They should have a role in the discipline process! They should have a role in what the environment is like at their child’s school! This is what started my advocacy for parents and students in TPS way back in 1995.
I’ll finish by saying what I said earlier, successful students are the best retention and recruiting tool! Concentrate on the results and parents won’t want to search for another choice.
posted by sflagg at 09:01 A.M. EST on Sat Aug 26, 2006 #
Chris, as always it is your decision. You have developed a great deal of support and public awareness. We all hope you make the right decision for yourself and hopefully for us.
posted by sflagg at 09:04 A.M. EST on Sat Aug 26, 2006 #
sflagg
That was not my quote that was "teacher's" quote!!
posted by purnhrt at 11:08 A.M. EST on Sat Aug 26, 2006 #
Thanks Mr. Flagg, I appreciate your thoughts. I truly am a teacher and very proud of my performance. I am sorry that others would not want me within 20 feet of their child, however, I would not teach in a charter school so I am not concerned. Except for Bennett Venture, which is still basically TPS children, the others charter schools performed dismal. Incidentally, Bennett Venture opened a fourth-first grade class. One of our displaced teachers took the job because she could not wait any longer to get called back. I am still sticking to my 2500 number. Now that Bennett is over 500, I think Whittier will take a bigger hit than I anticipated. I would absolutely support you and Chris Myers. (financially and with my time)
posted by Teacher at 10:47 A.M. EST on Mon Aug 28, 2006 #
Sorry for the misquote Purnhrt - I still agree with the thought. I believe most parents do want what is best for their children. Some have the tools financially and great parenting skills. Others certainly could use some help, training, etc. But how many parents have you ever met that did not care about their children? I'm not an expert in parenting - learned from my parents, those around me and on the job. There are many methods to successful parenting. Take corporal punishment for example. Never ever spanked my children. See it as promoting the "if I am bigger than you I can enforce my will upon you". I always believed I had a brain for a reason and if I could not get a child to do the right thing without spanking them then I was not working hard enough. Others believe that a good swift kick in the pants is just the ticket (actually that happened to me a number of times as a child as I had a habit of testing the rules). My wife and I have constantly gotten compliments about our children, their behavior, how well informed they are, how well they interact with others (enough back slapping). The point is even those that spank their kids love them and hope they are doing what is best even if I might disagree.
posted by sflagg at 02:24 P.M. EST on Mon Aug 28, 2006 #
Teacher - thanks for your comments. If you are willing to support people like Chris or myself, then you have been thinking for yourself and not reading all the propaganda - did you not know I am "anti-teacher". Joking aside, my email address is in my profile and unlike many you can find my phone number in the book. I'd like to talk with you further and other teachers that would be interested in creating a dialogue. I believe we have the solutions in our community, we just have not "discovered" them yet.
posted by sflagg at 02:32 P.M. EST on Mon Aug 28, 2006 #
Katie,
Sflagg, your group has worked on public education issues in Toledo for a decade or more - is that correct?
I have worked on public education issues for about 11 years. However, the Urban Coalition and Parents for Public Schools are NOT my groups! I'm just a member with a big mouth and too much courage for my own good. There are many people that make up these groups. We have many intelligent and dedicated people. Some that started with us such as Darlene Fisher have made very big commitments. It takes a special person to take on the role of TPS board member for the purpose of making things work for the entire community - especially in this acerbic environment
posted by sflagg at 02:45 P.M. EST on Mon Aug 28, 2006 #
'Your' group comment as in the group you belong to :-)
On a personal level, I do not know how Mrs. Fisher has the self-control she shows at the meetings. But it's been a very good thing she can maintain. It takes a very self-possessed woman to be able to do that.
posted by katie82640 at 07:39 P.M. EST on Tue Aug 29, 2006 #
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