Teacher... what school and grade do you teach at? I think the new school buildings are bringing back students to our district, which is definately a good thing. Do we have a count on how what the TPS enrollement is yet? A teacher... just curious do you live with in TPS district?
posted by jim30529 at 08:02 P.M. EST on Thu Sep 07, 2006 #
Yes the kids are returning to TPS slowly. I witnessed several of them crossing the street earlier this week and it took them a long time to get to the other side. They may have just arrived.
posted by tiger at 09:28 P.M. EST on Thu Sep 07, 2006 #
I think what your forgetting is that quite a few schools closed over the summer. (Remember the King Road school controversy?) So the schools that are open are fuller, just fewer of school. Of course you could use Carty logic and also count all the kids in juvenile hall to 300,000…
posted by tekrat at 05:20 A.M. EST on Fri Sep 08, 2006 #
that is true tekrat - I also spoke with a Mom who has a child in Arlington and spoke about very full classes and that they are putting on another teacher in the third week of school to accomodate the oversized classes.
But, if the 1,000 student loss is right - when I had heard 2,400 being advanced as the potential number all summer - this could be a good turn.
We will know after the count in October - what the official enrollment is? I'm not sure when that number will come in - but I'm anxious to see it.
posted by katie82640 at 11:00 A.M. EST on Fri Sep 08, 2006 #
Great comments! Yes I live in West Toledo, have spent my whole life there! Attended Start High School - class of 78 - Go Spartans! Very proud of my education. I teach first grade in east Toledo and love every minute of it! Heard today's count is around - 780. Not that bad! I was very concerned about the families at Mt. Vernon, Fall Meyer, and King. Looks like Hawkins is full - 98% moved over! Keyser around 78%. Haven't heard about King. Numbers are much better than I had anticipated. Had dialogued with Steve Flagg earlier in the month - expected around 2500. Please give Darlene Fisher, Robert Torres, John Foley and many teachers and principals credit. They went door to door and recruited. It shows that it works. Customer Service is a must. Maybe one of Dr. Sanders core values but he definitely dropped the ball. (Among other issues) So right now I am happy as my hire date was getting close for a layoff!
posted by Teacher at 03:03 P.M. EST on Fri Sep 08, 2006 #
Great news, Teacher. Thanks for posting!
posted by DoknowDocare at 04:05 P.M. EST on Fri Sep 08, 2006 #
Please give Darlene Fisher, Robert Torres, John Foley and many teachers and principals credit. They went door to door and recruited. It shows that it works. <--Teacher
I am so impressed. I can't tell you how big my grin is right now. Thanks for the good words!
Yes I will be sending them a thank you.
posted by katie82640 at 04:27 P.M. EST on Fri Sep 08, 2006 #
A couple of posted ideas hit home for me. I am married to a TPS teacher, live in Toledo and chose to send three kids to TPS. One is still there. We would have made different choices if we felt we couldn't get a quality education, but I fully respect the rights of others to choose what is right for their families. Our church would have preferred that we attend their school. Would we be wrong to choose that school? Requiring teachers to live in the district and send their own kids there would be a mistake.
The new buildings present an opportunity to improve the delivery of services, but part of the reason the old buildings are in trouble is that maintenance has been deferred too many times. I suspect the new construction won't tolerate neglect as well as some of these older buildings have. Is there a budget and a plan in place to maintain the new buildings? I don't think we want to be repeating this process 15 or 20 years from now.
posted by bobthedad at 04:15 P.M. EST on Sat Sep 09, 2006 #
Bob, if I may pick your brain - the issue of teachers living in the district has been a tough one. I don't like the idea of anyone dictating where people should live or send their kids, however this was historically a condition of employment. And currently is in many, many other districts.
The school of thought on this has been that teachers will work harder, have more dedication and loyalty if their own childrens' education and their property values are tied directly to job performance.
Can you address? This has really been a divisive issue for me....
The new buildings, from a thirty thousand foot view - if you told someone from another state that the district had lost as many of the students as they have, home values were plummeting and people HAD been (numbers are not in for this year) fleeing the city in record numbers yet we are building these new schools - what would this unrelated, uninvolved commentator respond with?
posted by katie82640 at 08:21 A.M. EST on Mon Sep 11, 2006 #
As for the residency requirement, the teachers have plenty of incentive to perform simply because their livelihood depends on it. I am also not willing to tell a Toledo teacher that they can't choose to send their children to a school that caters to their religious beliefs. I am not a teacher, but live in Toledo and work in Maumee because that's where my job is. I am no less committed to my job because of my residence. Supporting my family is all the motivation I need. I am also not aware of a residency requirement for any of the area suburban or parochial schools and we seem to be bombarded with reports on how much better they perform than TPS. It should be about getting the best qualified person for the job.
As for the new buildings, under normal circumstances I would not have replaced many of them but it is my understanding there is a state law that requires them to if repair costs exceed 50% of replacement costs. There is probably plenty of life in some of the older buildings if they were allowed to be maintained. Given the "found" tobacco money this represents a golden opportunity to improve the locations, capacities, and function of the schools to better serve current needs.
On a personal note, when we told friends 19 years ago we were moving into our current home in the Old Orchard School district, we always seemed to get the same response - they would always say "great school". We agreed with that statement during the time my kids were going there, and many of the same teachers still teach there. I am disappointed to see their most recent rating was "CI" and I don't think it's necessarily the teachers that changed. During last few years our youngest attended the school teachers told us at conference time that many parents had failed to show, and it seemed to become more difficult to get parent volunteers for fund raising and PTO events. I haven't seen evidence of baseball and softball teams playing on the ball diamonds there for a few years now. There has been an overall decline in parental involvement for several years and I don't buy the stories about the schools discouraging parental involvement. Our school was begging people to take part. Student turnover was nearly non-existent when I attended TPS in the 60's and 70's and now they change schools as often as they change their socks. It must be more difficult to form a bond and get through to a kid when they are often not there long enough to get to know them. It is necessary for parents to have the same dedication and loyalty you require of teachers to insure their children are ready, willing and able to be educated. We still need to work to improve the performance of the teachers and the administration (and how!), but we have allowed discipline to become the school's problem instead of the parents' problem.
I am not sure the decline in enrollment is so unique in Toledo and I believe that that while the schools may be the reason some choose to leave, it is certainly not the only reason. We need to do whatever we can to make sure quality, affordable education options are available to maintain our property values and for the city to survive. I wish I could wave a wand and demand that parents send prepared kids to school. The parochial school I attended for 3 years in the 60's was overcrowded, had outdated books and materials, and seemed more worried at times about finances than education. (Sound familiar?) Our public schools would be doing everyone involved a big favor if they were able to demand the same level of commitment that parochial schools have come to be known for today.
posted by bobthedad at 11:32 A.M. EST on Mon Sep 11, 2006 #
BobtheDad I applaud you. We are catholic but we also decided to go with Elmhurst, DeVeaux and Start. We were criticized by many for not going to Blessed Sacrement, but I have never looked back! I felt my children got an excellent education, however, we were always on top of it! Looking forward to the new Start. I see a decline in parent involvement and have known good friends who sent their kids to Old Orchard and then they adopted a child after their kids were grown and were very disappointed in OO. Just not the same and that's unfortunate. My next door neighbor sends her 3 boys to Christ the King. They all have 35 students in their classrooms. I have 21 and feel fortunate. Education has defintely changed nationwide.
posted by Teacher at 04:10 P.M. EST on Mon Sep 11, 2006 #
Bob - this is very good information. And a good outlook as well. I agree w/the religious preference in schools - I think alot of the declining enrollment may have this as a root cause. Time will tell on this one.
And I absolutely agree with a problem with parent apathy - there are alot of caring and involved parents - and alot of, well not involved or caring parents. Hardly a new issue but sad nonetheless.
While none of these are the single culprit - they are all parts of the issue.
I will look at other districts' enrollment over the last few years for comparison -
FYI - we love living in Toledo - but we now have a burglary and holdup problem in our neighborhood, very close to Maumee. That and declining property values are making it quite appealing to just sell and get out. But I hate to quit.
posted by katie82640 at 04:48 P.M. EST on Mon Sep 11, 2006 #
Kate said: "[W]e now have a burglary and holdup problem in our neighborhood, very close to Maumee. That and declining property values are making it quite appealing to just sell and get out. But I hate to quit."
Whoa! Put the brakes on, Kate. Don't let the punks scare you and your neighbors into accepting their violence. Their techniques are specifically developed to ghettoize the neighborhood to make it more comfortable for punks like themselves. In such a ghetto they can get favorable renting conditions, and will be safer from prying eyes as they indulge in their various criminal enterprises (namely dealing in drugs, guns and prostitutes).
Learn to shoot or swing a bat, install security lighting, get a big dog (alas, enduring the wrenching heartache of losing a good friend every 12 years or so), watch the neighborhood like a hawk, and most of all: pass out flyers alerting your neighbors that they need to do the same. Followup those flyers with personal visits.
All it takes is a couple of these punks (we derisively call them "supercriminals" due to their unsupported high opinion of themselves as "bad boyz") getting arrested, beaten and shot, and then they depart to seek out easier victims. Make Kate Street a "red light" street for them. They are only brave up to a point, and after that, they'll run. Make your level of attention higher than their level of bravery and you'll prevail.
If it becomes necessary to keep a ski-mask handy for these instances of conflict, well, that's the price to pay for defending the middle class from assaults by the criminal underclass.
posted by GuestZero at 01:13 A.M. EST on Tue Sep 12, 2006 #
"Make Kate Street a "red light" street" <--GZ.
I thought about that but Daddy shot the idea down. Snicker......
Seriously, we have worked on my street and are not having the problems here. But over on Schneider - just a few blocks away - there was a pizza guy held up and two break-ins in just the last couple of weeks. I asked the girl who lives over there, graduated with my daughter in '05 if she is seeing an escalated police presence and she just laughed.
I'm working on the house, neighborhood - trying to get an atmosphere of forthright conduct in the local politicians - b/c I really believe that will bring an element of accountability to their performance. And then these things, like increased criminal activity would HAVE to be addressed. Can you imagine if someone could hold the police chief accountable? Questions like: "so, in x amount of a time period you saw an escalation of x in this neighborhood. How did YOU FIX THAT PROBLEM? Manpower? Arrests?"
But I got my tax valuation and lost 17k in property value at this same time. So - ? I want to stay and fight. I also don't want to lose my butt on this house and wind up being a problem for my kids when I'm older. I have most of my personal financial worth invested in this here house.....
posted by katie82640 at 09:06 A.M. EST on Tue Sep 12, 2006 #
Let's be real careful here. The counts being discussed are preliminary. They are based upon comparable counts in the first week of last year. This may simply mean that more kids showed up on the first day (as a percentage of the total count as determined in October) than last year. I still believe it will be closer to 2,000 students lost than the current difference based upon the first weeks student counts. October will tell. I do believe however that we are probably at a point where we will see these losses decrease.
I would also add that Darlene Fisher insisted on a retention program aimed at keeping kids at the closed schools in the district. She personally attended meetings and talked with parents of the affected schools. And she was out the first day of school to see for herself what was happening as opposed to using the "filtered" intelligence of the administration.
And I know this won't go over well, but there will still be school closings this year and likely into the future to match infrastructure to enrollment. Also there are, I believe, 5 schools that were closed for financial reasons that are being rebuilt. Therefore unless there is significant increase in student enrollment in the next 3 years we will open schools and just have to close other schools - sort of like a rolling artillery barrage.
There are some glimmers of light penetrating the clouds, but enrollment will only stabilize and increase if we produce successful students. There is much work to be done here.
Teacher - do we know each other - as you know I also live in the Elmhurst area.
posted by sflagg at 04:02 P.M. EST on Tue Sep 12, 2006 #
attended a policy meeting yesterday and was told how they got the 1000 count. If you left jr. high and did not show up at a high school with a schedule that was counted and if you did not have a seat in a grade school from this year to last that was counted. So essentially the count is no way accurate. They do not know how many students that were lost to private, charter and people moving out of Toledo.
Also me thinks they should have just gone with the uniform policy, instead of a dress code. From what I can tell most highschoolers are wearing the correct clothes (uniform policy), such as color, and fabric but pants are still sagging and the shirts are not tucked in(dress code).
posted by purnhrt at 10:44 P.M. EST on Wed Sep 13, 2006 #
Unfortunately that is not all correct. We have taken three counts now and they were compiled on sheets broken down by grades. Staffing cuts are being considered as we speak.
I can only speak of elementary.
posted by Teacher at 11:20 A.M. EST on Thu Sep 14, 2006 #
I am sorry teacher. October will be the 'official' count? Won't they table that type of discussion until they have an official tally?
Or is the three set of counts you relate the 'official' count for TPS's planning purposes?
posted by katie82640 at 05:39 P.M. EST on Thu Sep 14, 2006 #
"Teacher" have you you discussed your concerns with Teresa Fedor? She seems to inject herself into TPS issues. Maybe, she should introduce legislation that might address education reform in Ohio which might incorporate any concerns you may have.
And by the way, whatever happened to the school funding issue regarding Ohio violating the state constitution? Last I heard, the state legislature was in violation of the State Supreme Court decision.
Come to think of it, I wonder if Teresa Fedor is employed by the teachers union?
posted by Beowulf at 10:31 A.M. EST on Fri Sep 15, 2006 #
Katie - i don't think the count changes drastically over the next 3 weeks. For instance, we have some schools who currently have 60 first graders and four classrooms. This could easily be 3 classrooms of twenty. Even if a few children trickle in it would be fine. So, cuts should be made - but will they? If they would have made the appropriate cuts last year, they wouldn't have had to close 5 schools. Possibly 4. There should have been at least 45 cuts last year after school started. Sure, small class sizes are great, but we are in hard financial times. And I'm a teacher, but I am being truthful. When Darlene Fisher asked if there were other options, there were. Additional staff could have been cut as much as I hate to think of people losing their jobs - it's reality.
posted by Teacher at 01:54 P.M. EST on Tue Sep 19, 2006 #
Steven Flagg - we have never met, but we may have mutual friends and/or acquaintances. We live on Grantley - 4200 block. I love the new principal at Elmhurst and find her to be a breath of fresh air. (Currently on maternity leave) Elmhurst is at 374 students - they have held their numbers over the past ten years. DeVeaux is at 925 - also, I like Jim Gault, the principal. My daughter is at MiamiUniversity, a sophmore - she went to Start, I think she was Darlene's daughter's age. Would love to share my thoughts some time. Enjoy your info as many times it is new material for me. I only know what I see or hear. Most of the times, it is from staff I know from other schools. My husband is a teacher also.
posted by Teacher at 02:04 P.M. EST on Tue Sep 19, 2006 #
Teacher - give me a call. I am in the book. My email address is in my profile. If your daughter is a sophomore she is a year younger than Darlene's daughter and mine. My daughter is currently a second semester junior at Miami in Oxford studying Chemical Engineering. So we have a number of things in common.
posted by sflagg at 03:42 P.M. EST on Tue Sep 19, 2006 #
Thanks Steve, I will. I have lots of questions!
posted by Teacher at 02:49 P.M. EST on Fri Sep 22, 2006 #
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