Hi Starling, my kids are 8 & 7 and they get computer time for reading and math several times per week. They definitely know their way around the computer, albeit basic but pretty impressive, I think. We also have had them on the computer with Jump Start programs since they were about 4 yrs. old, too.
Computers debuted for me in 5th grade. In addtion to Oregon Trail, we also played Lemonade Stand. THAT was fun :-) On our huge apple computers!
posted by gotoledogo at 12:16 A.M. EST on Sun Jan 07, 2007 #
Inadequate grass
Inadequate grass
Inadequate grass
posted by anonymouscoward at 01:46 A.M. EST on Sun Jan 07, 2007 #
Starling - last year I was a "principal for a day" at Ottawa River School and got to see each classroom. While the involvement varied, all classes had some computer time, including a computer lab where kids could do research, etc.
One teacher was using a special board that acted like a large computer screen. It was touch sensitive and she and the kids could "click" on items (by double tapping) to navigate around the web. She could also switch back and forth between her word document (which was her classroom activity) and the web - just like you do on a laptop.
As Ottawa River was still in the process of building their new building, I was told that all the classrooms in the new school would have smart boards in them.
posted by MaggieThurber at 09:12 A.M. EST on Sun Jan 07, 2007 #
Not a teacher, my Daughters in 8th grade in Sylvania, here's my experience.
In class it seems they use Microsoft Office-mostly PowerPoint and Word. She's had assignments that use PowerPoint and Word. Not all Parents have $150 Microsoft programs at home.
I've downloaded Open Office on her computer, she doesn't like it-not what she was taught to use at school. She made a Power Point*yawn* presentation and was smart enough to download the free 30 day trial so she could do the assignment. Amazon has the 2003 edition for $125 and the 2007 edition for $150-the 2007 edition will also require a hardware upgrade.
Being a public school on a budget I would think they use the free program-Open Office-that any student can get and use for free. It doesn't matter if she can get a discounted student version, free is free.
Recently in class they used a career builder type website where they had to input name/age/address/etc. Looking at the websites TOS they mention sharing personal information with "partners" and special offers-the usual very open ended TOS. The COPA (Childrens Online Privacy Act) says they can't ask for this information if the child is under 12, but when age 13 hits it a free for all. For what little information the site gave the kids gave a lot more-the red starred required information plus the optional info (Parents name/e-mail addy). Almost seemed like data mining. It's against the school boards policy to use these type of websites. My kid was smart enough not to give them her requested e-mail address.
posted by Bruno at 10:55 A.M. EST on Sun Jan 07, 2007 #
Yeah, that's scary, Bruno. I'd hope that the teachers would filter out websites that required that information, no matter why they wanted to use that website. Or at least have the kids use the school address/email to protect the family's privacy.
I'm betting that the schools didn't pay the retail price for student editions of MS, they most likely have an extremely low rate they pay for the software (which I wonder). I love that schools like UT & BGSU will broker with MSoft and make available functioning versions of the software to their students for around $10 per program - does TPS have the same?
Perhaps a few enterprising teachers would select to pick up and learn free office software, but as a district-wide decision it makes sense to go with a standard product like MS Office. You don't have issues of compatability, most folks use MSoft Office products, and you know that programs in one school can talk to another, as well as knowing that there will be support there, no matter how cruddy it is.
posted by wombat at 11:17 A.M. EST on Sun Jan 07, 2007 #
Microsoft has an 'education' level in their pricing. Most resellers offer this discount as well.
Bruno - good point about the privacy. Maybe a letter to the principal? Scary.
And not everyone uses MS proggies and students are not supposed to be required to have a computer for required homework.
Also, at the Toledo library though she can use the pc if need be - at no cost. They do charge (?) .05 or .10 at the library close to me. But she could do her project, save to disk in a compatible file format to what you are using at home and print at home also.
posted by katie82640 at 12:21 P.M. EST on Sun Jan 07, 2007 #
Being a public school on a budget I would think they use the free program-Open Office-that any student can get and use for free. It doesn't matter if she can get a discounted student version, free is free.
I'm betting that the schools didn't pay the retail price for student editions of MS, they most likely have an extremely low rate they pay for the software (which I wonder). I love that schools like UT & BGSU will broker with MSoft and make available functioning versions of the software to their students for around $10 per program
but as a district-wide decision it makes sense to go with a standard product like MS Office
Yeah, lock the kids into using Microsoft products at an early age, brainwash 'em, and help to extend Microsoft's monopoly.
Let me just state an important FACT here: these kids come out of their "computer" classes NOT with valuable information on how to use a COMPUTER or a GRAPHICAL USER INTERFACE, they come out with how to use Microsoft Internet Explorer and Microsoft Office on Microsoft Windows. THEY LACK THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE CONCEPTS REQUIRED TO USE ANYTHING *OTHER* THAN MICROSOFT PRODUCTS ON WINDOWS!
To make an analogy that some of you might actually understand, it is similar to how the introduction of calculators has made it so kids don't know how to graph a line or do simple four-function math in their heads. I know lots of people totally lost without a calculator.
A proper course in computer fundamentals would include exposure to MacOS and Linux/UNIX and non-Microsoft word processors and spreadsheets, and ideally cover binary and hexadecimal math and very basic C programming and boolean logic.
posted by anonymouscoward at 01:08 P.M. EST on Sun Jan 07, 2007 #
I told my Daughter not to give out any more info like that, if the school has a problem they can call me. We teach our kids about online privacy-don't give away personal info. So the school directs them to a website that requires the information.
Think the schools assume every kid has a computer at home. Even if they don't, they do give the kids options. It's nice having a webserver, no need for a physical disk carried to school. Go to class, click a link on the internet and there's her power point project.
Another thing on privacy-my Daughter and her friends go to the dances at the JCC, I guess the kids are required to give names and addresses. Now they all get snail mail spam from Notre Dame Acadamy/the local Christian schools. Thanks JCC.
Sorry, I'm getting off topic.
posted by Bruno at 01:17 P.M. EST on Sun Jan 07, 2007 #
I'm an elementary teacher in a Toledo suburban district. The students are all on computers pretty much every day doing programs designed to improve their math and reading skills. The problem is keyboarding skills are not taught. The kids just use the mouse to click on choices for the most part. Sometimes they need to use the keyboard, but it is hunt and peck. They do get keyboarding in jr high if they sign up for it. The same is true in our high school.
posted by tjintoledo at 02:13 P.M. EST on Sun Jan 07, 2007 #
Sorry Coward, but using Microsoft Office is very much a real word skill, like it or not. I’ve watched way too may users struggle in basic MS Office skills in the work place. Many places won’t even hire you without them.
I’d be willing to lay money down that 90+% of Fortune 500 companies use MS Office products in their work place (talk about real world learning).
The computer skills they should be teaching are how to format a hard drive, install programs, upgrade memory, etc…it would be like auto mechanics for the 21st century.
posted by SensorG at 02:40 P.M. EST on Sun Jan 07, 2007 #
I’d be willing to lay money down that 90+% of Fortune 500 companies use MS Office products in their work place (talk about real world learning).
And people think Microsoft doesn't have a monopoly/isn't a monopoly. Imagine that.
Sorry Coward, but using Microsoft Office is very much a real word skill, like it or not. I’ve watched way too may users struggle in basic MS Office skills in the work place. Many places won’t even hire you without them.
Oh please get a clue. The REAL skills are "word processing", "using spreadsheets", and the like. "Microsoft Office" is not a skill, it's a set of proprietary programs created by Microsoft. To say MS Office is a skill is like saying driving an automatic Ford Taurus is a skill, and the existing situation of teaching everyone ONLY how to drive automatic Ford Tauruses. When something happens that changes their environment, e.g. a toolbar disappears, they have to use OpenOffice, the gas gauge breaks, or they have to drive a stick-shift Honda, 90% of 'em become pathetic helpless creatures who whine for help and complain that they can't cope with the change. And then I, as someone who can use MacOS, Windows, Linux/UNIX, MS Office, OpenOffice, drive a stick, drive a motorcycle, probably drive a locomotive given a chance, gets called in to hear a pile of whining and bitching and be interfered with by someone who probably gets paid more than I do and whose skillset includes "brownnosing", "empire building", "sociopathic tendencies", "doing bad/illegal things and not getting caught at it", and other stuff that causes people to advance on basis of "competitive ability" rather than "technical skills".
But I digress.
Why don't you please elaborate the "basic MS Office skills" your users are struggling at in the work place, SensorG? Pleasepleasepleaseplease do so. I want to know if the problem really is "MS Office" skills (proprietary), word processing and spreadsheet skills (typing, using formatting controls to bold/underline/italicize/set margins, writing formulas), or the stuff they're supposed to be learning ELSEWHERE in school, like writing and grammar and math and logical reasoning.
I'll go one step further and explain the differences:
If the person "rites like they r txt msging ppl" or otherwise basically relies on the spell checker and grammar checker to clean up after them, or they have no idea how to calculate the average of anything, then the problem exists in their math and writing/grammar skills.
If the person can write like they've passed HS English with a B, knows the difference between "you're" and "your", and knows how to calculate an average and balance their checkbook, but they cannot type without hunting-and-pecking using just their index fingers, or they can type up something but not know how to bold text, double space it, change the margins, or they don't know the function to calculate the average of a row or column, then they have problems with their word processing or spreadsheet skills.
If they can write a paper with proper spelling, grammar, and formatting in MS Word, but not when the formatting toolbar with the B, I, and U buttons goes missing, or they can't figure out how to switch to a different printer, or put paper into a printer, or launch Word if someone deletes the shortcut from their desktop, or do these things in OpenOffice on Windows instead of MS Office, then the problem is their overall computer skill set.
If they can do all of the above but not write macros in Visual Basic, then that's a proprietary MS Office skill, because VB is a proprietary MS product.
I'd draw up some Venn diagrams, but my feeling is that someone would complain about them being too hard to understand.
posted by anonymouscoward at 05:13 P.M. EST on Sun Jan 07, 2007 #
The computer skills they should be teaching are how to format a hard drive, install programs, upgrade memory, etc…it would be like auto mechanics for the 21st century.
No, not quite. To say those skills make one an auto mechanic is like calling the guy at the 20-minute quickie oil change place a computer guru. (The little drive-thru shops that do oil and lube and nothing more.) The guy knows enough to find the plug on the oil pan and remove it and to find the oil filter, the oil fill, and the dipstick. If you're lucky, he knows how to rotate your tires. Anything more than that and you need an ASE or manufacturer certified mechanic to answer your question/service your car.
Go ahead and teach these "skills" you referred to, and give me more morons to deal with who cannot answer the questions of "what happens" and "why" about formatting, installing programs, upgrading memory, etc. Fuel my rage!
Our society is FUBAR because nowadays almost NOBODY pays attention to what's happening or what happened (unless it involves "famous people" a la "Entertainment Tonight" and "People") and almost nobody wants to know why things happened the way they did or why they are happening the way they are. Any answers are short and simple. Why are we here? Because God created everything 6000 years ago. Why does gravity exist? Because God said so. How does it work? God says we aren't supposed to know that. Why did 9/11 happen? Because the terrorists hate us. Why do they hate us? Because they hate how much stuff we have and our way of life and the fact that we're not Muslims. If you dare ask if we've done anything that might possibly could have pissed 'em off, a whole group of people will come along and smack you and tell you to shut the fuck up already.
That's one of the two problems I have with "computer education" -- the fact that they don't teach "why" anything and "why" questions are discouraged. The second problem is that nobody teaches any kind of computer history, which is mostly the cause of the first problem -- you cannot gain more understanding without at least answering some of the "why" questions.
I really really wonder if I could start up some sort of weekend program where I could get people to cough up Owens-like amounts of money for 4 hours a week of "Computer Literacy Boot Camp". Hmmmm. $400 per person for 15 four-hour periods on Saturday. Any takers?
posted by anonymouscoward at 06:20 P.M. EST on Sun Jan 07, 2007 #
$400 per person for 15 four-hour periods on Saturday. Any takers?
would you be the actual instructor? if so, i'd have to respectfully pass. your people skills are just too rosy for me.
posted by wholesaler1972 at 07:15 P.M. EST on Sun Jan 07, 2007 #
ac -what is fubar?? The reason for my concern about all of this, is that I have a 13 yr old nephew who's getting a used, refurbished laptop for a gift from his grandmother (my sister in Texas - who knows less about using computers than I do, if that is even possible) and her boyfriend who thinks he's the king of computers. He's a nice guy, but both of them assume that my nephew has gotten computer literate at school by now (they rarely ever see him - maybe a day a year, kids mom is a jerk, the dad's in florida). My nephew spent a few days in our house this summer, and it was clear he was clueless - he seemed to not even know where the 'enter' key was, or how to enter an address in the address bar, or how to use the 'back' button. Anyway, my sister is convinced that he'll jump right into this Microsoft Office, Powerpoint, etc. and figure it out & need it. My thinking is, yes, install it for that day he may want or need it - but expect him to be overwhelmed & bored with it - but that he will figure out how to use the laptop on his own, like most people do. This is a kid who reads far below his age, if at all - and gets little help or encouragement at home. But I saw a spark in him when he was on my computer that I'd never seen before, once he got going on it - he has so much promise & potential. I'm sure he'll figure it all out on his own. But it got me thinking about exactly what kind of computer teaching they do in schools, that he can know so little. I'm a bit concerned to hear they don't teach keyboarding to early grades anymore - and require a special class to learn it. That is a basic skill that my kids started to learn in school in the early years. And I read recently that many schools have stopped teaching cursive writing - on the grounds that few people use it anymore. That concerns me - it is a basic skill. How will they be able to read articles written in cursive quickly? It just seems that the schools are dumbing things down a bit too much.
I don't think the technical things need to be taught as a basic required class. That's great as an option for electives. My daughter told me that when she was in Whitmer, they'd accidently put her in a 'computer class' and it took a few days to straighten her schedule out. She said that she knew more than what the teacher was teaching. But I have always let my kids 'go at it' here at home on the computer - they learned almost all of what they know on their own.
It seems what I am learning, is that the time kids spend learning 'computers', is more spent doing math & english problems ON a computer. And while it seems that some Jr. High schools do teach MS office, powerpoint, etc. - many do not - and I wonder, how do they decide what schools teach it - or not? The poster here who has kids in a Sylvania school seem to be learning more than was ever offered to my nephew - he lives in a horrible part of Toledo, very rough.
posted by starling02 at 07:20 P.M. EST on Sun Jan 07, 2007 #
The problem is keyboarding skills are not taught. The kids just use the mouse to click on choices for the most part. Sometimes they need to use the keyboard, but it is hunt and peck. They do get keyboarding in jr high if they sign up for it. The same is true in our high school.
Ouch!!! posted by tjintoledo at 02:13 P.M. EST on Sun Jan 07, 2007 #
My grandson who is in the fifth grade typed his report on my computer two weeks ago...yes, he typed the whole report!
I was quite impressed as the speed this little 10 year old had using the keyboard...knowing the home keys...with looking down at keys occasionally!
He attends an E.Side Catholic School System...he has had Computer Class since the first grade...side note: the school had a fund raiser to provide a computer class room...
posted by MARIELORA at 01:23 A.M. EST on Mon Jan 08, 2007 #
FUBAR. Was military code for things going very badly wrong. "Fowled up beyond all recognition". As in, the demolitions training team has accidentally blown up the barracks, Sir level of gone wrong.
Worked it's way into common vernacular. And the owl in the phrase has been replaced with 'uck'
posted by katie82640 at 09:28 A.M. EST on Mon Jan 08, 2007 #
The problem is keyboarding skills are not taught. The kids just use the mouse to click on choices for the most part.
You're right about keyboarding not being taught early on. I learned keyboarding as an elective in junior high, 7th grade to be specific. Although my friend taught me how to not get caught & still look to pass the class. How stupid that was because when I *needed* to know how to type I was still pecking.
Believe me, as they have to type out words while doing their math or reading exercises on the computer, they become very aware of where the keys are, and I am certain that by the time my kids have formal keyboarding training they will already know how to type without pecking. That is how I learned, simply by doing, and now I'm pretty derned fast.
posted by gotoledogo at 10:12 A.M. EST on Mon Jan 08, 2007 #
It's too bad keyboarding is not taught in all the schools...
My grandson attends Catholic School, East Toledo and had been taught keyboarding since the first grade...with program titled learning typing skills...he also told me he was taught to feel the "bump" on keys f and j to keep fingers positioned on home keys...as I commented in earlier post...he types well with accuracy and speed for a 10 year old 5th grader...he told me he accredits his computer skills, keyboarding skills, to his Computer teacher...quote..."she is so nice and the best"!
What I am getting at...if this can be taught in a Catholic school system as early as First Grade...then why NOT in all schools...
Our children, Our future, is being CHEATED dearly...
With that...I am tired of hearing "funding" as the reason...the Public School System has more funding than the Catholic School System.
Children are being "LEFT BEHIND"...thank goodness for the Catholic School System!
posted by MARIELORA at 02:51 P.M. EST on Mon Jan 08, 2007 #
Oh please get a clue. The REAL skills are "word processing", "using spreadsheets", and the like. "Microsoft Office" is not a skill, it's a set of proprietary programs created by Microsoft. To say MS Office is a skill is like saying driving an automatic Ford Taurus is a skill, and the existing situation of teaching everyone ONLY how to drive automatic Ford Tauruses.
I see your point, but if one is learning word processing, why not learn it using the application one is most likely to encounter in the real world. Two birds, one stone.
This reminds me of comp sci classes I had in college. Intro courses were taught in a language called Scheme. The language has virually no practical application. It is learning tool to help understand program control, recursion and other programming concepts. While serving its purpose in beginner courses, all intermediate to advanced courses used commercially accepted languages. Theory is great (and a necessary foundation for those wanting to become experts), but practical experience with commonly used tools certainly doesn't hurt.
posted by Matt at 03:01 P.M. EST on Mon Jan 08, 2007 #
Well, Marielora..I can try to answer this from my perspective as an elementary teacher. We are expected to improve every year on the Ohio Achievement Tests. I don't think Catholic schools have to take them. We have a strict course of study to follow to prepare the students for these tests. Keyboarding is not needed to pass these tests so therefore time is not provided to teach it.
posted by tjintoledo at 07:08 P.M. EST on Mon Jan 08, 2007 #
I can empathize with a lot of the frustration here.
AC- Microsoft will continue to gain competitive advantage as long as its products are accepted as the staple in our schools. I am by no means a fan of Microsuck products. Excel has evolved nicely, but Word gets worse every year. There is absolutely no skill in building a powerpoint presentation. If I have to sit through another presentation that ends with that creepy stick figure scratching his head under the caption 'Any Questions?', I may just turn the meeting into another episode of 'when keeping it real goes wrong'. Access is an abomination. I have pushed the limits in its data capacity and found it surprisingly stable, but my god, could someone tell me what would be wrong with standard sql? I won't get into microsuck OS's. They're all whores. They just lay there and let take whatever you want. I mean where is the challenge. Sorry that slipped out.
I am just guessing that much of the problem with elementary/jr high computer education, is in the oversight. Who determines the qualifications of the instructors? I know plenty of retired business people, not necessarily IT department people, but retired engineers and managers, who would do a great job chairing a program. Unfortunately, what you have instead is probably closer to someone with a masters in education who would not have the first clue what happens in the world of business and industry.
Good luck Starling. I wish I had some great advice for you. This nephew of yours is rather young. The exposure he will gain with the laptop will surely benefit him to some extent. Maybe this will lead to a desire to learn more as he develops his reading skills. There are some great books out there, dealing with anything from computer history, game programming, and artifical intelligence. These subjects can sometimes spark a deep interest in young people. Unfortunately most are not aimed at younger audiences. If I run across anything, I will definitely pass the info. on.
posted by nick44 at 11:05 P.M. EST on Mon Jan 08, 2007 #
http://www.iste.org
NETS for Students
Technology Foundation Standards for All Students
The technology foundation standards for students are divided into six broad categories. Standards within each category are to be introduced, reinforced, and mastered by students. These categories provide a framework for linking performance indicators within the Profiles for Technology Literate Students to the standards. Teachers can use these standards and profiles as guidelines for planning technology-based activities in which students achieve success in learning, communication, and life skills.
Technology Foundation Standards for Students
1 Basic operations and concepts
• Students demonstrate a sound understanding of the nature and operation of technology systems.
• Students are proficient in the use of technology.
2 Social, ethical, and human issues
• Students understand the ethical, cultural, and societal issues related to technology.
• Students practice responsible use of technology systems, information, and software.
• Students develop positive attitudes toward technology uses that support lifelong learning, collaboration, personal pursuits, and productivity.
3 Technology productivity tools
• Students use technology tools to enhance learning, increase productivity, and promote creativity.
• Students use productivity tools to collaborate in constructing technology-enhanced models, prepare publications, and produce other creative works.
4 Technology communications tools
• Students use telecommunications to collaborate, publish, and interact with peers, experts, and other audiences.
• Students use a variety of media and formats to communicate information and ideas effectively to multiple audiences.
5 Technology research tools
• Students use technology to locate, evaluate, and collect information from a variety of sources.
• Students use technology tools to process data and report results.
• Students evaluate and select new information resources and technological innovations based on the appropriateness for specific tasks.
6 Technology problem-solving and decision-making tools
• Students use technology resources for solving problems and making informed decisions.
• Students employ technology in the development of strategies for solving problems in the real world.
NETS for Students
Technology Foundation Standards for All Students
The technology foundation standards for students are divided into six broad categories. Standards within each category are to be introduced, reinforced, and mastered by students. These categories provide a framework for linking performance indicators within the Profiles for Technology Literate Students to the standards. Teachers can use these standards and profiles as guidelines for planning technology-based activities in which students achieve success in learning, communication, and life skills.
Technology Foundation Standards for Students
1 Basic operations and concepts
• Students demonstrate a sound understanding of the nature and operation of technology systems.
• Students are proficient in the use of technology.
2 Social, ethical, and human issues
• Students understand the ethical, cultural, and societal issues related to technology.
• Students practice responsible use of technology systems, information, and software.
• Students develop positive attitudes toward technology uses that support lifelong learning, collaboration, personal pursuits, and productivity.
3 Technology productivity tools
• Students use technology tools to enhance learning, increase productivity, and promote creativity.
• Students use productivity tools to collaborate in constructing technology-enhanced models, prepare publications, and produce other creative works.
4 Technology communications tools
• Students use telecommunications to collaborate, publish, and interact with peers, experts, and other audiences.
• Students use a variety of media and formats to communicate information and ideas effectively to multiple audiences.
5 Technology research tools
• Students use technology to locate, evaluate, and collect information from a variety of sources.
• Students use technology tools to process data and report results.
• Students evaluate and select new information resources and technological innovations based on the appropriateness for specific tasks.
6 Technology problem-solving and decision-making tools
• Students use technology resources for solving problems and making informed decisions.
• Students employ technology in the development of strategies for solving problems in the real world.
posted by Offshore at 08:23 A.M. EST on Tue Jan 09, 2007 #
Sorry about the double paste. Apparently I need the skills too!
posted by Offshore at 08:26 A.M. EST on Tue Jan 09, 2007 #
Nice rant Coward…
Now lets look in the “Want Ads”…
This is from the Toledo Blade 1/9/2007…
“expertise with Microsoft Office, especially Excel & Word”
“be proficient in Microsoft Word, Excel and Access”
“Must be proficient on Word and Excel.”
“Additionally Word, Excel, PowerPoint, digital photography & 3D rendering skills a plus.”
“A working knowledge of Microsoft applications including, Word, Excel and other database applications is a must.”
“Additional required skills include the demonstrated ability to use the MS office suite, particularly Access, Excel and PowerPoint”
“Must be proficient in MSWord, Excel, Powerpoint, & Access”
“Applicant must be proficient in Microsoft a Excel and various office programs”
“and experience with MS Word and Excel”
“computer skills (including MS Office, MS Outlook, MS Word, MS Excel),”
“Experience with Word a must. Experience with Excel and PowerPoint a plus”
“Experience in Word, Excel”
Lets’ actual teach something the kids might really use…
posted by SensorG at 11:39 A.M. EST on Tue Jan 09, 2007 #
If you find anything nick, it'd be appreciated. Offshore - are you saying that this Nets for students is currently required (because I'm not seeing that as how it is in real life)? Or a suggestion of what should be required? It sounds like a great plan to me - but my kids never learned that, and it's a safe bet my nephew won't either.
posted by starling02 at 04:36 P.M. EST on Tue Jan 09, 2007 #
I know this doesn't directly address the question about what kids are currently learning in school (my own kids aren't school aged yet, so I'm not certain). However, there are free computer classes at the library - I'd guess that many of them are geared towards adults, because people automatically assume these days that teens are already computer proficient. You could always call though and see if a 13 year old would be eligible to register. If he's not learning the skills at school or at home, he has to pick them up somewhere!
posted by mom2 at 05:40 P.M. EST on Tue Jan 09, 2007 #
I see your point, but if one is learning word processing, why not learn it using the application one is most likely to encounter in the real world. Two birds, one stone.
Because it's things like USING MULTIPLE DIFFERENT SYSTEMS THAT DO THE SAME OR SIMILAR THINGS that create INTUITIVE understanding.
I'll give you a solid business case reason to educate users on multiple different systems and ways to do things: if they only know one way to do something, when that way breaks, they have no idea what to do and sit there inactive until they get someone to fix it for them. Hey! Look! A loss of productivity! Should educate them to do something else in the meantime.
And I see SensorG is being an ass... "Word" and "Excel" when used in Help Wanted ads are basically generic terms. Hell, since you're paying by the letter, it's CHEAPER to say "Word and Excel" rather than "word processing and spreadsheets". If the person doing the hiring is COMPETENT, they'd know exactly what skills are required, but the fact is that most of 'em aren't, judging by the sheer number of poorly spelled emails I've gotten from recruiters asking me if I want to do C and SQL coding and other garbage not mentioned at all on my résumé and other things I've encountered.
"Word" and "Excel" are dangerously close to becoming generic terms due in part to Microsoft's near-total monopoly.
And again, I submit that what 90% of these employers want are merely generic word processing and spreadsheet skills. If they want PowerPoint or Access, that's a bit different.
I bet that if you told the morons doing the hiring that you WROTE OpenOffice, they'd not hire you, despite the fact that you damn well know how spreadsheets and word processors work from the inside out. I'd also bet that if you told the head honcho and Financial that they would save big big bucks by running OpenOffice, they'd probably by very interested.
posted by anonymouscoward at 09:37 P.M. EST on Tue Jan 09, 2007 #
mom - yes, librarys do offer classes I think - if you schedule the time with the computers there. The problem with my 13 yr old nephew is that he lives in a really rough part of Toledo, not walking distance to a library & his mom & stepdad aren't likely to bother with it (his bio-dad is my nephew, so I assume the 13 yr old is also my nephew?? Maybe not?) - at any rate, his bio-dad lives in Florida & wasn't any inspiration when he was in Toledo. An alcoholic bum mentality. The step dad screams a lot I know, the mom is indifferent. I doubt they'd even provide money for a bus.
posted by starling02 at 12:31 A.M. EST on Wed Jan 10, 2007 #
Sorry Starling, I get in a hurry sometimes. ISTE and NETS standards are not required in most schools. However, most colleges of education require current teachers in continuing education and pre-service teachers to acquire the standards. Go to www.iste.org to see that teachers and administrators all share similar standards.
posted by Offshore at 08:17 A.M. EST on Wed Jan 10, 2007 #
starling - sorry to hear about that. Sounds like its going to be an uphill battle for him trying to educate himself, if he doesn't have any support at home (even merely just providing transportation). And that's a scary thing, because computer literacy is so important to many, if not most, well-paying occupations these days.
P.S. Yes, I believe he'd be your great-nephew, if he's the son of your biological nephew.
posted by mom2 at 04:42 P.M. EST on Wed Jan 10, 2007 #
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