I don't intend to vote for anyone currently on the board or to vote for any more school levies.
posted by OhioKat at 09:02 A.M. EST on Sun May 06, 2007 #
My opinion...The Toledo Public School System has failed our children.
I have more than once on this board stated the Catholic School System exceeds anyway you look at it in comparison...
With that...City Government needs to give US who use the Catholic School System some kind of break in Property Taxes; we are NOT using this failing institution, we should NOT finance it!
My two cents...for what is worth.
posted by MARIELORA at 11:36 A.M. EST on Sun May 06, 2007 #
I just watched the Board (well, not Fisher) waste $50K on a useless search action that they obviously had no desire to complete. I agree with OhioKat. They'll have to beg for money from the state or feds, since I'm hardly seeing any point in giving them more money. (We all know that the deferred-raise MOU would swallow any levy they proposed, right? Of course right.)
For once, I agree with something in one of the Blade's raving Neo-Communist op-eds:
“The board's treatment of Mr. Harner defies logic.”
The Board is operating under a regime of closed doors and hidden agendas. If the Blade's op-ed demand that they all resign was actually to happen, then what transparent-operating politicians could possibly take up the task in this corrupt city?
posted by GuestZero at 11:52 A.M. EST on Sun May 06, 2007 #
how did the school board get into the poop so deep so fast? paying the superintendent too much? the floor sweepers/janitors/etc?? the taxes collected in this city are being sent somewhere else? like a private bathroom/shower/gym/??? what else. ?? the state lottery is a failure as well, each county should be getting the lottery winnings taxes-not the state government or the federal government.. when this lottery was first introduced the money was supposed to go to the schools,-what happened there? the lottery commission president/ceo is being overpaid too!!!
posted by wlh1us at 12:06 P.M. EST on Sun May 06, 2007 #
This was a great editorial. Don't know who wrote it or the one last week. But it sure was a refreshing change.
There was that one line in there about Sanders which made me blink and scratch my head - but even that couldn't take away from the passion and direction of this piece.
Bravo.
posted by katie82640 at 06:50 P.M. EST on Sun May 06, 2007 #
Mrs. Barnett is being quoted on the news as saying that she expects the board to present Mr. Foley with an 'offer' within a day or so.
????
posted by katie82640 at 08:18 A.M. EST on Mon May 07, 2007 #
I don't intend to vote for anyone currently on the board
That's one of the frustrating things about living outside the district - you can't do much of anything to change what's doing on.
I do care about what happens to TPS, and genuinely wish that they could turn things around. First and foremost because of the children who go through that system. But also...the success or failure of the school system certainly has an affect on the success or failure of this region.
posted by mom2 at 08:29 A.M. EST on Mon May 07, 2007 #
I have a question though. I understand that Robert Torres has now aligned himself with Larry Sykes, Deborah Barnett and Steve Steel - but Darlene Fisher hasn't.
She's tried to keep her campaign promises, voted FOR change and AGAINST the same old same old.
I know, because I've been going to the meetings (missed 2) and taping them for over a year now.
So how can you throw her in, after trying so hard for more than a year now, with Larry Sykes?
That just seems grossly unfair to me.
posted by katie82640 at 08:33 A.M. EST on Mon May 07, 2007 #
«[Barnett] expects the board to present Mr. Foley with an 'offer' within a day or so.»
Wow, only a couple of business days required to 'negotiate' with Foley. I wonder what was the reason for the WEEKS of delays in 'negotiating' with Harner?
{chirp chirp}
posted by GuestZero at 10:06 A.M. EST on Mon May 07, 2007 #
I'm wondering why the Board is going to make an offer when they said the whole reason for the delay with Harner is because Harner didn't present a request.
I still think that when you offer someone a position, you make an offer regarding salary and benefits - not wait for the applicant to make demands...
posted by MaggieThurber at 03:00 P.M. EST on Mon May 07, 2007 #
It certainly does seem as though there are two sets of protocols involved when it comes to 'offering' a position within the TPS.
Perhaps they should have OFFERED the position to Dr. Harner instead of waiting for him to ask for things.
As for Darlene Fisher...she is the ONLY one on the BOE that I would vote for at this point. She has proven that she is the only one that is not willing to sacrifice her principles in lieu of politics.
posted by DoknowDocare at 03:04 P.M. EST on Mon May 07, 2007 #
If Sykes was being accurate when he said that Harner was told several times that the superintendant has to live in district, then Harner sandbagged 'em. Waited until he knew they want him and then try to get to live in Sylvania. For that reason alone, Harner should be tossed.
Also, I was disappointed that the Blade thought that the provision requiring the superintendant to live in Toledo equates with "sacrificing" their kids' education. Seems like the Blade thinks that the Board should give into whatever demands the applicant wants. I agree with Maggie: the terms should be dictated to the applicants, not the other way around. And living in the district should be one that is non-negotiable.
posted by Ace_Face at 03:18 P.M. EST on Mon May 07, 2007 #
Actually, all the parties (TPS and the Harners) had assumed that the girl would go to public school here.
First, Toledo Public Schools do not carry the baccalaureate advance placement curriculum that she is already enrolled in - in her local public school.
So Toledo may not even KNOW about these classes, but it isn't standard operating procedure for them.
The Harners have had access to this curriculum through their local school district and I am sure assumed we would have the classes available in our district.
The repercussions to this girl would have been that her course of study would have been derailed through the last two years of her high school. That presented a problem. For everybody.
Now when Eugene Sanders came in he was given a year and a half exception to the residency requirement. TPS forwarded Sanders contract, in lieu of an offer - to Harner.
But then they didn't want to extend that hiring circumstance to the Harners' as it had been to Sanders. Even though they voted unanimously that this was the guy they wanted.
Why do you suppose that was?
posted by katie82640 at 08:06 P.M. EST on Mon May 07, 2007 #
The residency "requirement" was just another item to negotiate, considering Harner's needs and the precedent set by Sanders. There is no "sandbagging" when it comes to negotiation; all terms are up for argument and compromise.
posted by GuestZero at 04:47 A.M. EST on Tue May 08, 2007 #
I must say...regardless of your position on residency, there are two points:
1) If residency is so important, the TPS board needs to be consistent. They've lost a superintendent candidate over this issue so they are in a position where they must continue to insist upon residence FOR ALL TPS EMPLOYEES. If the super needs to live in the district, the ones he supervisers should follow the same rules. Otherwise, they all become hypocrites.
2) I find the timing disconcerting - regarding the ability to require residency, which was challenged publicly. The new state law seems to apply to school boards (no legal opinion has been presented, but most have read the ORC). Following such challenge, which called into question the board's ability to insist upon this clause, the TPS board decides they're done with negotiations. The timing of this will lead to all kinds of speculation - that the board was trying to insist upon a clause it couldn't legally require only because they knew it would be the one of most contention...that the board, upon learning that they couldn't legally require this suddenly decides they want to move on and hire another person just when the last item of disagreement becomes moot.
Conspiracy theorists will use this sequence of events to further their opinion that the Board really did not want Harner...
posted by MaggieThurber at 08:24 A.M. EST on Tue May 08, 2007 #
Though I have nadda much respect for the Toledo Public School System...I do have a QUESTION:
IF any new Superintendent must reside within city limits; should this not be for Toledo Police, City Employees...as well?
With that as -MaggieThurber- suggested "conspiracy" one could easily believe there is some kind of conspiracy to simply keep this candidate out as other employed with Toledo Public Schools, Toledo Police, City Employees...do not reside within limits.
sidenote: I don't blame the Harners one bit NOT wanting their daughter in Toledo Public!
posted by MARIELORA at 09:05 A.M. EST on Tue May 08, 2007 #
Regardless of whether the Super must reside within city limits or not, I can't agree with any stipulation that says he or she must send their kids to Toledo Public.
That said, if the kids enroll in private school, the Super pays the cost, not taxpayers. If Toledo Public isn't good enough or offers the courses he or she needs, fine; go private but that comes out the Super's pocket.
posted by McCaskey at 10:55 A.M. EST on Tue May 08, 2007 #
hi kate -
I think that I asked the question about the alignment of Torres, Sykes and Barnett on another thread and that it was curious to me that Torres and Fisher are no longer aligned. Darlene Fisher is the only person who seems to be not playing the political game and for that reason I respect her. Like other people have said, the Blade's editorial demanding their resignations is one of the best editorials that they've done lately.
posted by corky at 12:21 P.M. EST on Tue May 08, 2007 #
Hi Corky - me too. I just feel badly for her, the position she's in. But should she agree to something that is just, well wrong, for the lack of a better word?
The four are in alliance, Torres made that very clear with his last vote. I don't know what the deal was - but I don't think his choice was good in the long run it's better to do the right thing, even though it's hard to fight people who have their own agenda.
The blade editorial a week ago was supportive of Darlene Fisher, but then the last one called for all five to step down. I just feel bad for her, she's been standing up for the right choices, getting blasted by the board for over a year and now she gets lumped in with them like it was all for nothing.
And maybe it was, I don't think the three acting like children care what's in the best interest of the children. I think they're interested in playing political games. And now I think there is four of them.
posted by katie82640 at 02:44 P.M. EST on Tue May 08, 2007 #
Marielora - two different systems. TPS is a school board that is governed by state law. The City of Toledo (which employs police and fire, etc) is a municipality with home-rule authority.
The Ohio Revised Code grants cities different power and authority under home-rule.
And whether or not home-rule cities have to follow the state regulation that says you can't require residency - is currently in the courts...
posted by MaggieThurber at 04:09 P.M. EST on Tue May 08, 2007 #
McCaskey - agreed that the school system shouldn't reimburse any superintendent for their child's education.
Easily avoided though - have the super get a house in a feeder pattern for a school in academic emergency. Point Place is a terrific place and Woodward is in academic emergency...then just get a voucher to send the child elsewhere... problem solved under the current rules that apply to everyone.
posted by MaggieThurber at 04:11 P.M. EST on Tue May 08, 2007 #
*bing*
Maggie Thurber you have been fined 5 credits for using logic and common sense.
posted by BrianInFlorida at 04:17 P.M. EST on Tue May 08, 2007 #
would those be carbon credits, BrianinFlorida???
posted by MaggieThurber at 04:18 P.M. EST on Tue May 08, 2007 #
The call for all to resign may just be cover. The two who have greatest responsibility are Sykes who led negotiations and Barnett who was to provide leadership. If the Blade called for their resignations, I can hear the issue of racism elevated to new levels. If they called for the third person most responsible for the failure, Torres would be asked to leave. Now we have three minorities with their heads on the block.
Tough to call it like you see it for fear of being labeled something you are not.
Steel has his own issues with a major conflict of interest - his wife is a teacher for TPS and she is active in the union.
Fisher is the only one without a conflict and while she has to take some blame, even the Blade agreed with her about re-opening negotiations with Harner. So if the negotiations with Harner are reason to call for all to resign, why did the Blade credit Fisher for her effort?
Just another theory and I do regret bringing race into this discussion, but the possibility just can't be ignored. The safest call for the Blade is to ask for all to resign.
posted by sflagg at 05:02 P.M. EST on Tue May 08, 2007 #
You're absolutely right, Steve.
The really sad part is the one guilty bully is using that to his advantage.
And Maggie...uh huh!
posted by BrianInFlorida at 08:01 P.M. EST on Tue May 08, 2007 #
steve - I have to think that there is some other agenda that is motivating all this craziness on the TPS board. Seriously, people only act this nutty over money or sex. I wonder if there is $ome other motivator that is behind all of this?
posted by corky at 09:40 P.M. EST on Tue May 08, 2007 #
Corky - You are not the first person in the last few days to suggest that something fishy is going on here. I'm not aware of anything, but we will keep our eyes open and continue asking questions.
posted by sflagg at 04:03 A.M. EST on Wed May 09, 2007 #
Want a motivator, Corky? The TPS is a $400M machine, which is twice the $200M machine we call Toledo city government. How much money-motivated corruption do you see in the city? (Hint: I see A LOT.)
The building program for the TPS is another, massive money machine on top of that (about $900M when you combine the Tobacco Settlement money with the bonds that were also issued for the program).
I see plenty of motivation here for sneaky politicians shuffling money around for hidden benefit.
posted by GuestZero at 04:14 A.M. EST on Wed May 09, 2007 #
Hi steve - I think that there might be $omething hinky going on with the money a$$ociated with $chool rebuilding. Think of pay to play at the $chool di$trict level with contracters, bank$, etc.
"Get us that contract for the construction loan and we will $weeten the deal by contributing to your re-election campaign."
or
"Get us the electrical/plumbing/etc. contract for the rebuilding and we will sweeten the deal by contributing to your next campaign."
None of these ideas are brand new. Tim Hagan alleged it is a lawsuit against Taft, et. al. in Cuyahoga Courts a few years ago.
posted by corky at 07:17 A.M. EST on Wed May 09, 2007 #
Hi Corky - you and I think alot alike. I've been trying to figure out this angle and I think it was Steve I said the same thing to. Only two things I know of that make people that crazy. Sex or money :-)
posted by katie82640 at 05:22 P.M. EST on Wed May 09, 2007 #
¢ork¥, what po$$ib£€ r€a$on ¢ou£d th€r€ b€ ₣or hijink$ in th€ TP$? I'm $ur€ it ha$ nothing to do with mon€¥.
posted by GuestZero at 05:23 A.M. EST on Thu May 10, 2007 #
Hi GZ - The money matter$ that I'm talking about are le$$ to do with the operating budget of TPS and more to do with po$$ible kickbacks for steering re-construction contracts. Just a hunch.
posted by corky at 11:00 A.M. EST on Thu May 10, 2007 #
Well, I don't call 'em the "construction mafia" for nothing, ya know. ;^)
posted by GuestZero at 01:20 P.M. EST on Thu May 10, 2007 #
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