One of the suburban levies, Swanton, would have actually lowered taxes from what they are right now. But the Blade with their attention to detail put in their election section on Sunday that it would raise taxes $122 per year. Then no correction in Monday's paper.
By the way, repairs usually come from the permanent improvement fund and salaries from the general fund. They aren't the same thing.
posted by BGGrad at 08:13 A.M. EST on Wed May 09, 2007 #
BGGrad - some public entities finance their capital fund with transfers from the general fund. Not sure exactly how the individual schools do this, but municipalities will often transfer a set amount or percentage out of general funds into capital funds every year.
posted by MaggieThurber at 08:48 A.M. EST on Wed May 09, 2007 #
So with rising energy, insurance, medical, and prescription prices who should wonder that people didn't vote for these levies? It is one of the few things people have some control over.
posted by brucek at 10:06 A.M. EST on Wed May 09, 2007 #
It appears the cause of all educational can be laid at the feet of the administrators or the teachers. The remedy is always an "off with their heads" approach to the problem. The only way schools can truly educated children is through a cooperative effort by teachers, parents and administrators.Children have one teacher at a time. The only constant are the parents. Schools fail when only a part of the team is educating the child.
The solution is a new community vision and a commitment by all the members of the team to this shared vision.
posted by bill at 12:42 P.M. EST on Wed May 09, 2007 #
"The only way schools can truly educated children is through a cooperative effort by teachers, parents and administrators.Children have one teacher at a time. The only constant are the parents. Schools fail when only a part of the team is educating the child"
--Well said Bill!
posted by tpsteacher24 at 01:11 P.M. EST on Wed May 09, 2007 #
Nicely said, bill!
posted by MaggieThurber at 01:19 P.M. EST on Wed May 09, 2007 #
Swantons levy didnt fail due to anything The Blade had to say. It failed because they just got a 1 1/2% income tax in place which is bringing in well more than the property taxes of the past. We're tired of the begging. Live within your means like the rest of us have too. I sure would like to have a sandy beach vacation, darn,,,, taxpayers wont fund it. Guess I wont be going because I have to live within my means.
posted by swantucky at 05:14 P.M. EST on Wed May 09, 2007 #
Make that 1 1/4% income tax.
posted by swantucky at 05:15 P.M. EST on Wed May 09, 2007 #
We live in an era of interdependent institutional elitism. Increased costs (real or otherwise) are used by institutions to demand greater income; once such income is secured, it is spent; once such spending happens, institutionally it leads to more costs (contracts, etc.); and then the cycle repeats. So, BGGrad, it doesn't matter which funds are which. If we the people don't put these welfare cases under control, they will impoverish us.
One levy pays for personnel, another levy pays for capital equipment, and yet another pays for operational expenses. If we just give up and say "well, firing an administrator won't do anything for the capital fund", then all funds will grow without bound. (Note that that's not actually true, in that there is a bound, and that limit is the revolt of the people.) We're overtaxed as it is, and if the operational fund can't shrink, then by god the personnel fund MUST.
I'm sure many people don't realize that Toledo is on the verge of a huge increase in salary demands for the teachers and administrators. After all, do you really think these people will move into brand-new schools and not start thinking that they're worth more money? In line with the "wealth effect", this is an entitlement effect. Suitably impressed by splendid furnishings, they will start thinking that such splendor must therefore be visited upon themselves personally.
Brucek has it right. The general population who must pay for the schools is more strapped than ever and is perhaps finally rebelling against the bloat of the institutions. The question is, can they successfully resist all the slimy tactics the schools will undertake in order to force the issue? The Lake Township example alone is a fine indication of what school boards do when told "no" ... they keep badgering the public for money until they get their 50.01% margin. I'm really starting to think that financial issues should require a super majority for passage, not a simple majority. Fiscal conservatives like myself find it more and more outrageous how 50.01% can tell the other 49.99% what to do with their money.
P.S. Prediction: A school system in America within the next 5 years will be so strapped for cash that it will factor a levy. That means they will sign a contract with a financier in order to sell a levy's future stream of revenue (for about 70c on the dollar) in order to have the bulk of the money NOW. You heard it here, first!
posted by GuestZero at 05:08 A.M. EST on Thu May 10, 2007 #
"The only way schools can truly educated children is through a cooperative effort by teachers, parents and administrators.Children have one teacher at a time. The only constant are the parents. Schools fail when only a part of the team is educating the child"
In other words, bill, "It takes an entire village to raise, err, TEACH a child"?
posted by MrsPhoenix at 07:59 A.M. EST on Thu May 10, 2007 #
NOT ONE MORE DIME for ANY TAX LEVY anywhere in oHEILo. Hell, they don't need the money, they don't give a shit how many small local business they put under with the smoker ban, so piss on them. I used to consider them on an individual basis, but no more. I'm never voting for ANY tax increase again, no matter how noble.
posted by Darkseid at 08:03 A.M. EST on Thu May 10, 2007 #
WHOA! The Toledo Blade is ALL OVER the school levy issue like Sykes' fingerprints on the TPS treasury! Check it:
Gas prices help scuttle area school taxes; defeats tied to economy
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070510/NEWS09/70510010
Ballot success eludes schools in 3 Ohio cities
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070510/NEWS09/705100388&SearchID=73280632650773
TPS views levy losses as sign of tough sell
$12.7 million deficit looming for district
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070510/NEWS04/705100353&SearchID=73280632650773
I guess someone ought to call the Blade and cordially inform them that Ohio is full of a working class that is just getting poorer with each passing year. I doubt that the gas prices are going to take a comfortable dip before Nov since this is not a major election year. So, boo hoo, it's time for the TPS and other districts to finally admit they are POOR school districts. Poor entities can't afford the nice things in life, like great health insurance, new buildings, and expensive labor.
posted by GuestZero at 08:15 A.M. EST on Thu May 10, 2007 #
gas prices, huh? why stop there with the blame game? what role did walmart and global warming play here?
could it be people are sick of the govt taking their money?
i read the article and it never shocks me how blind public officials are. as the one taxpayer put it, they should live within their means. amazing concept. it's something my family does daily.
hmmmm, any predictions on a potential tps levy?
posted by wholesaler1972 at 08:43 A.M. EST on Thu May 10, 2007 #
Funny...
If you look at Monclova/Anthony Wayne, the reason the area is growing so fast if because of the school system. It is one of the defining assets that drives people to leave Toledo to move out there.
Cripple the school system and watch your home prices tumble...
posted by SensorG at 09:07 A.M. EST on Thu May 10, 2007 #
hmmmm, any predictions on a potential tps levy?
Ouch!!! posted by wholesaler1972 at 09:43 A.M. EST on Thu May 10, 2007 #
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070510/NEWS04/705100353
Speaking of which............
posted by tm at 09:31 A.M. EST on Thu May 10, 2007 #
Cripple the school system and watch your home prices tumble...
are you saying voters are responsible for crippling the school systems? could it be the ways and workings of the actual school systems?
posted by wholesaler1972 at 09:40 A.M. EST on Thu May 10, 2007 #
While I'm all for cutting layers of fat, and axing programs that don't work, let's recall the old adage "you can't cut your way to prosperity"
Living within your means is all well and fine, and certainly something I preach often, but we also need to break the downward spiral and spend when appropriate in hopes of turning things around. This pessimism is self-defeating.
posted by bam2 at 09:51 A.M. EST on Thu May 10, 2007 #
they get enough of our money. they don't spend what they get wisely. more money doesn't mean better educated kids.
anyhow, you may find my views, and the others like mine, to be pessimistic, but i think these views are realism.
at what point do you think "enough is enough"? for you, at what point does this "pessimism" be "reality"?
posted by wholesaler1972 at 10:01 A.M. EST on Thu May 10, 2007 #
Just read this on a state website:
-----------------------------------------------
Smoking Ban Enforcement To Cost $800,000
Complaint Hot line Already Ringing
-----------------------------------------------
And that's only the beginning.
As I said-f**k 'em
posted by Darkseid at 10:53 A.M. EST on Thu May 10, 2007 #
(Step aside, Wholie, I've got this one.)
Bam2, there's another, old adage that doesn't make the rounds as much: You can't tax yourself into prosperity.
Pessimism about the economic prospects around Toledo is not a matter of opinion, but FACT. The area is in a severe economic decline and shows no signs of abating, considering what would actually abate it: influx of prosperous businesses producing long-term employment opportunities.
The school systems receive PLENTY of money. The budget for the TPS is 400 million dollars. You'd quite simply need to have your head examined to think that they "need" more money. They at least are losing students, have fat paychecks and administrative overstaffing, and so we can only conclude that the budget is VERY cuttable.
As for place like P-burg ... well, they've enjoyed increased tax revenue over time from the huge increases in land value. (Mags, jump in here to correct me if I'm wrong, but CA is going through the same thing, yeh?) It wasn't free money, folks! The school system was responsible for budgeting the money they received, up to and including forming "rainy day" funds. The excessive spending of the community surely infected the institutions. As I don't really believe the middle class in P-burg and elsewhere is really that poor (since they can just stop spending money on vacations, cable TV, eating out, etc.), similarly I don't believe their school systems are that poor either. It all comes back to the Day of Reckoning. When you're fiscally foolish, eventually the sheriff shows up at your door and no amount of delay or rhetoric will help you then.
posted by GuestZero at 11:00 A.M. EST on Thu May 10, 2007 #
GZ, I'm certainly not calling for tax increases. Looking for a balanced approach, I view your adage as the flipside of the coin that mine was engraved in. At least you didn't bring up the lauffer curve; I used to drink that supply-sider kool-aid, but the more I studied those who've studied it, well it no longer tastes so sweet.
I certainly see a basis for the sense of pessimism that I decry, but pessimism alone won't lead to the influx of prosperous businesses that you suggest will abate the decline.
posted by bam2 at 12:15 P.M. EST on Thu May 10, 2007 #
I don't bring up the Laffer Curve since I've found it to be too simple to express taxation dynamics. I know the rightwingers love to bring it up, but they've gone so far with drinking the mentioned stuff that they've invested in IV drips of supply-side Kool-Aid.
Although it's true that increasing taxation does cause tax evasion, there are many ways taxes can be evaded. You can move away from the taxing jurisdiction. You can avoid participation in the taxed activity. Etc. Please note these are not bad things and are well within the scope of individual choice. Decreasing participation in a stream of tax revenue can't be demonized so easily.
But for the topic at hand ... I'm just having trouble identifying how increased taxation that supports certain institutions will drive a recovery. I mean, sure, it's possible that we could enter a period where the schools are well funded and the population that pays into them have to eat more Ramen noodles. However, there's another factor here that things like the Laffer Curve don't take into account: do we really TRUST such institutions to act properly while rolling in all that money? From the evidence I've seen, there's little basis to trust our institutions since they are so corrupt or elitist.
I can only fall back upon my fiscal conservatism, being the obverse of your philosophical coin or not. If the people are poor, the institutions can't be rich. We see those kinds of models in Africa and other Third World areas, and there's no justice to be found. Our wealthy in the area are simply too aligned with Third World viciousness to be trusted with a fully-funded, state-based recovery.
posted by GuestZero at 01:17 P.M. EST on Thu May 10, 2007 #
These are very interesting and enlightening comments. My question to you all is, has anyone heard about the compensation package our new (TPS) superintendent has been awarded? It was broadcast on Carty's own favorite radio station, WSPD AM1370 yesterday (Friday, May 11th). That would be enough to vote down any new levy's or taxes for the school system! I refuse to support any future demands or requests by the TPS until this excessive spending is put under control! Public servants are not worth that degree of compensation, especially when the majority of the population is well under that amount!
posted by rick948 at 10:57 A.M. EST on Sat May 12, 2007 #
Public servants are not worth that degree of compensation, especially when the majority of the population is well under that amount!
Wow - I remember reading what he received and thinking “No wonder they can’t get a good candidate”.
I’m a middle IT manager and in a good bonus year I push 6 figures. If you look at what most CEOs make at companies with budgets and employees the size of TPS, I’d be surprised they weren’t pushing 7 figures.
The fact is you get what you pay for. TPS pays crap and we get crap.
posted by SensorG at 04:55 P.M. EST on Sat May 12, 2007 #
I am so tired of being told that I am over paid as a teacher in TPS. I think some of you are forgetting the fact that I too am paying higher gas prices, grocery bills, utilities bills, just like everyone else. I too live in the city and eat my share of Ramen noodles. I am not disagreeing that the district could spend our(taxpayers') money more wisely, but quit blaming me. I would like for some of you who think all I do all day is eat Bon Bons, to try to last one day in my classroom. I love teaching and reaching kids, so I teach in TPS, but it is not a walk in the park. I have students who are neglected so much by their parents that they act out just for attention. I have kids who need to be rocked to soothe their violent temper tantrums. I have kids who tell me to "shut up little girl", students who would rather punch than walk away, students who enter Kindergarten not knowing their last name, let alone any letters or numbers, students whose parents do not bother to give me accurate contact numbers, so I wait around with their child for an hour after school, because Mom forgot to pick them up, should I go on? You are also neglecting to mention that most teachers spend a considerable amount of their "fat" salary buying things for the kids. I'm talking about buying paper, pencils, crayons, scissors, glue, behavior incentives. Many of the kids I am teaching do not have the basics, I must supply them if I am going to educate them. So the next time you want to slam the teachers, try spending one day with one first.
posted by marlos at 05:13 P.M. EST on Sat May 12, 2007 #
marlos...I understand your frustration. I am not a teacher, but have friends that are teachers. The complaints you listed are in the public and Catholic schools.
My frustration is with the TPS adminstration. Mine is not teacher based. I would like my son to go to Start next year, but he will not.
Teachers are not the problem....
posted by aperson at 05:40 P.M. EST on Sat May 12, 2007 #
marlos said: «I think some of you are forgetting the fact that I too am paying higher gas prices, grocery bills, utilities bills, just like everyone else.»
The only one forgetting about expenses, is you. Your set of workers get paid a median wage of $48K in the TPS, with $32K starting and the higher echelons pulling down $60K easy. Those are great wages for such a depressed area. (TPD officers get paid similarly, except they have to work all year. Hmm.) As the area falls into greater depression, that wage must drop. After all, we'll all getting hit with greater expenses, as you said yourself. It's not like the majority have any duty to a well-paid minority to keep them at such a level.
The people of Toledo pay the bills. Period. If the majority run into financial troubles, then that trouble will be reflected in the institutions. We're being handed PAY CUTS, marlos, and we're your paymasters. It's time your class of worker encountered the same.
Unlike what happened to we private-sector workers, you're receiving sufficient notice NOW. You have to downsize your lifestyle to prepare for lesser compensation (at least in comparison to increased costs of gas, food, heat, insurance, etc.). Time to move out of Perrysburg and back into Toledo where the homes are a lot cheaper. Time to pull your kids out of private schools. Time to set the thermostat to 62° during the winter and 78° during the summer. Time to shop at Goodwill and the Salvation Army. Etc. It's time the teachers of Toledo started to live like financially-real Toledoans.
Of course, Dear Teachers, you could get rid of some of that army of administrators (each one of which makes a good $90K, right?) and start to administrate your school system yourselves. That could cancel or delay your own day of salary correction. Do you have that courage? Or does Lawrence only open her mouth to get you more cash?
(Now it's time for the faux moral outrage over my statements. C'mon, people, I'm more than ready for you. Let's have it out.)
posted by GuestZero at 06:42 A.M. EST on Sun May 13, 2007 #
GuestZero- I do live in Toledo and send my kids to Toldeo Public Schools. I am a real Toledoan. I'm curious as to why you didn't adress any of the other comments? If you noticed I didn't ask for a pay raise, I simply asked you to stop beating me up for the way the Board of Education spends our money. If you are so outraged, you might consider leading a rally to remove all TPS Board Members and then run yourself. I have no problem living within my means, I do have a problem with you slamming for doing a job, that many people couldn't or wouldn't. As far as having the courage to administrate myself, I do, but that is not my decision, it is that of the Board of Education. You also should remember that Mrs. Lawrence does not speak for all teachers, it's not like she takes a poll before she speaks.
posted by marlos at 08:24 A.M. EST on Sun May 13, 2007 #
The only one forgetting about expenses, is you. Your set of workers get paid a median wage of $48K in the TPS, with $32K starting and the higher echelons pulling down $60K easy. Those are great wages for such a depressed area.
$60K for someone with 25 years of experience and an MBA is nothing.
The same in the corporate world would cost a lot more!
posted by SensorG at 09:15 A.M. EST on Sun May 13, 2007 #
Marlos, by being within the TPS, you're no innocent bystander, so drop the pretense. Your class of worker is paid well and when the budget crunches, such compensation is going to come under reconsideration. You can demonize this process all you want by claiming I'm beating you up, but the reality is that it's just sound financial policy to place expenses under control.
marlos said: «I do live in Toledo and send my kids to Toldeo Public Schools.»
Well, gee, I only had a 50% change of being wrong about THAT, since about half the TPS set of teachers lives outside of Toledo. We're surrounded by more-expensive exoburbs. THEY can move back in when we paymasters come cutting their salaries. My statement involved them on that basis.
marlos said: «If you are so outraged, you might consider leading a rally to remove all TPS Board Members and then run yourself.»
Keeping reading the news. It won't be me running, but I'm in there somewhere.
marlos said: «You also should remember that Mrs. Lawrence does not speak for all teachers, it's not like she takes a poll before she speaks.»
That's sure a funny position to take, given she's the leader of your union. Make sure all those teachers (for whom she doesn't speak, according to you) give her the boot!
marlos said: «As far as having the courage to administrate myself, I do, but that is not my decision, it is that of the Board of Education.»
Look, you can dodge your responsibility all you want. I've watched nearly everyone involved in the TPS do the same thing. None of you can or will do anything about it. I'm not dodging my responsibility. I stick my nose into the affairs of the board, then I march down to the polling station to make the corresponding NO vote to further levies, then I speak out on the same issues and urge fellow Toledoans to do the same. As far as I'm concerned, since none of you want to fix the school system, you can ALL wither on the vine, fiscally speaking. The way the TPS is run, if levies are voted down, eventually the politicos "leading" you all will place the school system into such debt that the state will step in. They'll probably cut your salaries unilaterally and summarily.
SensorG said: «$60K for someone with 25 years of experience and an MBA is nothing. The same in the corporate world would cost a lot more!»
Yet that condition is true right now, and the TPS still has these teachers, and in fact teachers continue to apply to the school system. Hmm! It's almost as if you made no point whatsoever.
posted by GuestZero at 12:22 P.M. EST on Sun May 13, 2007 #
guestzero- You obviously have your mind set so I will not bother anymore. Oh, and by the way, MY responsibilty as a teacher is to educate children and help them grow into strong adults, not cure the woes of the district, so I will leave that to you.
posted by marlos at 03:46 P.M. EST on Sun May 13, 2007 #
FWIW, kudos to you on the last part, marlos. I've met far too many TPS teachers who disclaim responsibility for educating children, since they conveniently use a variety of social excuses (kids come from broken homes, etc.). If only the TPS rewarded teachers on the basis of merit, eh?
posted by GuestZero at 04:01 P.M. EST on Sun May 13, 2007 #
Syndicate ToledoTalk
