I must be getting old or something because I haven't of a single one of these groups.
posted by tekrat at 11:27 A.M. EST on Wed Mar 23, 2005 #
Since when is advertising allowed here?
Oh and look:
VersoGroup -- Member since: March 23, 2005.
Dear VersoGroup and Headliners,
You suck, you pile of filthy spammers.
posted by anonymouscoward at 01:41 P.M. EST on Wed Mar 23, 2005 #
Agreed.
Go away.
Far away.
And, (to steal a line from Corporal Klinger) may the fleas of 1000 camels infest your armpits.
posted by historymike at 07:22 P.M. EST on Wed Mar 23, 2005 #
I say we go to Headliners and post ToledoTalk signs all over the place.
When the bands get on stage, we could make them wear ToledoTalk shirts.
Every song would be required to have an intro:
"This next tune is brought to you by ToledoTalk."
Maybe we could hit them up for munchies and beverages, too.
posted by historymike at 11:08 P.M. EST on Wed Mar 23, 2005 #
I see that Robert Croak, former king of the Main Event, Frankie's, and other dead East Side bars, is a player in Verso Group.
Croak, if you recall, has never seemed to be able to keep his businesses out of trouble. His criminal record prohibited him from actually being on the liquor licenses for his bars, and he got into trouble with the Liquor Control Commission for trying to run the clubs while being barred from being named on the license.
More recently, he has been in big-time tax trouble:
http://bta.ohio.gov/03b103.pdf
Here is some interesting information about a legal battle involving Croak's Verso Group:
http://www.marketingenergetics.com/customsiliconebracelets.htm
Hey, since the people want to spam, they ought to face the music of truth.
posted by historymike at 08:28 A.M. EST on Thu Mar 24, 2005 #
Yes, Frankie's and the Main Event. I had some good times at those places back in the 90's. In those small settings, you could sometimes see a band that a year or so later would be playing the big arenas. I saw Korn at the Main Event on Labor Day Weekend in 1995. I was only there because my buddy's local band played first. I decided to hang around to see what was up with this Korn band. Glad I did. That was an experience.
posted by jr at 02:31 P.M. EST on Thu Mar 24, 2005 #
There's no doubt that Croak knew how to judge talent and create a great place to party.
I am not convinced, however, that he was a good businessperson. Between the massive underage drinking, parking lot brawls, and questionable accounting practices, his record in running a business is pretty abysmal.
Read the Bureau of Tax Appeals document. When asked to provide business records for his claims that the investigator's audit was
inaccurate, all Croak could provide were menus, flyers, and "testimonials" of employees. The auditor's estimates of sales based on liquor usage were called inaccurate due to some $1 shot promotions.
Croak did not provide profit-and-loss statements, balance sheets, checking account statements, or even sales records.
Either Croak never bothered to keep these important documents, or he didn't want to turn them over to the state. Either way, this is the kind of shoddy accounting that smacks of either incompetence or corruption.
As someone who has come under the eyes of various governmental auditors, I can attest that they generally know their area of expertise. In fact, they may know it as well as anyone - even business owners. Croak, in my opinion, could have avoided or minimized this $44,000+ tax liability by just working with the auditor. Most are not going out of their way to raise hell, and will give you the benefit of the doubt if you don't BS them. I even had an unemployment audit where they -GASP - found an error in my firm's favor.
posted by historymike at 04:13 P.M. EST on Thu Mar 24, 2005 #
How about this one?
Croak, the ever-present philanthropist, got in on tsunami relief by offering to donate $1.00 from every tnsunami relief bracelet it sold.
Croak set a goal of $500,000.00 for tsunami relief:
http://www.gothamist.com/archives/2004/12/28/tsunami_relief.php
No word from Verso on how much they raised or donated.
posted by historymike at 06:09 P.M. EST on Thu Mar 24, 2005 #
A link to Croak's arrest on liquor violations in 2001 at the Main event:
http://www.publicsafety.ohio.gov/news/2001/01080114.pdf
Scroll down to page 14 for the limited details.
posted by historymike at 06:18 P.M. EST on Thu Mar 24, 2005 #
Information from Court of Common Pleas web site on Rob Croak's forgery and tampering with evidence convictions (dashes indicate where edits have eliminated the really dull motions):
LUCAS COUNTY COURT OF COMMON PLEAS
J. BERNIE QUILTER, CLERK
700 ADAMS STREET
TOLEDO, OHIO TIME: 7:16:41 PM
DATE: 3/24/2005
CASE: G -4801 -CR -200102855
TITLE: S/O V ROBERT J CROAK
JUDGE: JAMES D. JENSEN
FILING DATE: 10/26/2001 CASE TYPE: CR CRIMINAL
-----------------------------------------------
MONETARY AMOUNT: DOCKET/PAGE:
ORIGINAL COURT: TAX TYPE:
PREVIOUS CASE NUMBER: STATE OF OHIO NUMBER:
COUNT PARTY DESCRIPTION ABBREV.
1 (D -1)CROAK ROBERT J TAMPERING WITH RECORDS-F3 F3
2 (D -1)CROAK ROBERT J FORGERY F5
3 (D -1)CROAK ROBERT J FORGERY F5
4 (D -1)CROAK ROBERT J FORGERY F5
----------------------------------------
PARTY : D1 - CROAK ROBERT J
5/20/2002 1 Title : SB2 PLEA ENTERED
795-02644 issued by PJ (GUILTY PLEA ENTERED)
May 20, 2002. Court Reporter Corpe, Assistant Prosecutor
Mike Nargis, JON D. RICHARDSON on behalf of the Defendant,
and Defendant ROBERT CROAK present in court.
Defendant, in open Court, withdrew previous plea of not
guilty, orally and in writing, waived all constitutional
rights, and entered plea of Guilty to offense of
Forgery, count 2 of the indictment in violation of R.C.
2913.31(A)(1) a felony of the 5th degree.
Plea accepted. Defendant found guilty. Written plea and
journal entry ordered filed.
Defendant referred to the Pretrial/Presentence Department
for presentence investigation and report. Matter set for
sentencing on June 28, 2002 at 8:30 a.m..
Bond is continued.
-----------------------------------------------
The Court finds that defendant has been convicted of
FORGERY, count 2, a violation of R.C. 2913.31 (A) (1), a
felony of the 5th degree.
The Court finds pursuant to R.C. 2929.13(D) that: a non-
prison sanction does not demean the seriousness of the
offense; a non-prison sanction will adequately punish
defendant and protect the public; factors decreasing
seriousness outweigh those increasing seriousness; and
there is less likelihood of recidivism and THEREFORE
imposes 2 years of community control to be monitored by
the Lucas County Adult Probation Department specifically
to include: 1) Defendant to seek and maintain gainful
employment; 2) Defendant to pay a fine of $2,000.00; 3)
Defendant is to follow all regulations given by Liquor
Control Department; and 4) Defendant is not allowed to
operate or own a Bar.
Violation of this sentence may lead to a longer or more
restrictive sanction for defendant, up to and including a
prison term of 12 months.
Pursuant to the request of the State of Ohio a nolle
prosequi is entered as to counts 1, 3 and 4.
Defendant is ORDERED to report to the Lucas County Adult
Probation Department forthwith. Defendant is ordered to
pay any supervision fees, all costs of prosecution and any
fees permitted pursuant to R.C. 2929.18(A)(4).
-----------------------------------------------
788-01844 issued by PJ (PV OR CCV ADMITTED OR CONTINUED FOR
On January 23, 2004 defendant's sentencing hearing was held
pursuant to R.C. 2929.19. Court reporter Corpe, defense
attorney JOHN W MCMAHON and the State's attorneyTom Matuszak
were present.
Defendant having admitted to a community control violation
and having waived oral hearing, is found in violation of the
community control.
Matter continued for sentencing to April 23, 2004 at 8:30
a.m. Probation Officer to submit an update report.
Bond continued.
On April 23, 2004 defendant's community control violation
hearing was held pursuant to R.C. 2929.19. Court reporter
SANDRA CORPE, defense attorney JOHN W MCMAHON and the
State's attorney JENNIFER DONOVAN were present.
Defendant having previously admitted to a community
control violation and having waived oral hearing, is found
in violation of the community control.
Defendant having been convicted of the offense of Forgery,
count 2, in violation of Revised Code Section
2913.31(A)(1), a felony of the 5TH degree.
Community Control as ordered by this Court on June 28,
2002 is ORDERED continued on same terms and conditions,
previously imposed.
Defendant to report to the Lucas County Adult Probation
Department immediately.
Defendant found to have, or reasonably may be expected to
have, the means to pay all or part of the applicable costs
of supervision, confinement, assigned counsel, and
prosecution as authorized by law. Defendant ordered to
reimburse the State of Ohio and Lucas County for such
costs. This order of reimbursement is a judgment
enforceable pursuant to law by the parties in whose favor
it is entered. Notification pursuant to R.C. 2947.23
given.
JUDGE JAMES D. JENSEN
PARTY : D1 - CROAK ROBERT J
4/27/2004 1 Title : EVT:JE FILE/JOUR $ EFF 9/24/03
CCV HEARING C-253-361
PARTY : D1 - CROAK ROBERT J
4/28/2004 2 Title : EVT:COSTED TO DATE
PARTY : D1 - CROAK ROBERT J
4/28/2004 3 Title : EVT:COST BILL MAIL INSTIT/PROB
PARTY : D1 - CROAK ROBERT J
5/7/2004 1 Title : COMMUNITY CONTROL TERMINATED
PARTY : D1 - CROAK ROBERT J
posted by historymike at 07:21 P.M. EST on Thu Mar 24, 2005 #
Does anyone else find it disturbing that this individual with, ahem, such a checkered past would get into the tsunami relief collection efforts?
Hey, Verso Group and Rob Croak: How much money went to the tsunami victims?
Did you ever raise that $500,000.00?
Did you ever send them any money? If so, to whom did you send it?
I have a friend who says he attended a Verso Group-produced concert in January where they were selling the tsunami relief wrist bands, and people could also donate extra money.
How much was raised, Verso Group?
Are you still selling these bracelets?
Are your accounting practices better than those of Croak's former businesses?
And gosh, this all started with annoying spam. Motto: don't piss off members of community bulletin boards by spamming. You open yourself up for all kinds of interesting discussions about your business that you never expected.
posted by historymike at 08:34 A.M. EST on Fri Mar 25, 2005 #
Damn fine research, historymike. Does seem a bit iffy when someone convicted of forgery is involved in a fundraiser.
posted by jr at 06:57 P.M. EST on Fri Mar 25, 2005 #
This may be a minor issue, but for a company founded in 2001, it seems odd that Verso Group could claim to have promoted concerts for Nirvana.
The Seattle band, of course, ceased to exist in all but name following the 1994 suicide of frontman-guitarist Kurt Cobain.
Perhaps Verso is referring to an early date that Nirvana played in Toledo, like the October 1989 gig at Frankie's. If so, they ought to make that more clear:
http://www.versogroup.com/home.html
Also, the site is rife with typos, such as "The Verso Group...welcomes the opportunity to help take your companies corporate identity to the next level." You should use the possessive form company's here, Rob, not the plural.
http://www.versogroup.com/home.html
The typos would be penny-ante stuff, except for the fact that Croak and Co. identify themselves as experts in web design to "promote a strong corporate image."
This next one is both ironic and funny: "With over 15 years experience...the Verso Group and its principles welcome your project." Uh, Rob, when speaking of a firm's owners, it would be principals. "Principles" are those rules or codes of proper conduct that, judging from your numerous legal battles, may not be your forte.
Personally, I would be pissed to shell out bucks for a web designer who spent a lot of time on flash, but did not proofread the text.
posted by historymike at 11:44 P.M. EST on Fri Mar 25, 2005 #
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