Where to begin...
1. It is sad to see someone with so much evident intelligence as Tolrem Apan slip into this type of trash.
2. Not content with his previous attempts at lyrical humor via sexiist poetry, TolremApan next turns his attention to perpetuating stereotypes of rural Southerners as inbred, incestuous imbeciles. This time, however, you have personally offended me, as well as any other readers of a Southern rural extraction. My father was born, of all places, in the small Virginia town of Appalachia, which is located near the nexus of Kentucky, West Virginia, and Virginia. He endured much the same sort of stupid bigotry as found in TolremApan's post when his family moved to Detroit in the 1950s. It got so bad that in high school he deliberately eliminated all traces of a Southern accent from his speech so that he could escape the stereotypes.
3. Perhaps, TolremApan, you might have a more realistic view of Southerners if you expanded your frame of reference beyond, say, "The Dukes of Hazard" or "The Beverly Hillbillies."
4. What is even more surprising is that TolremApan made a reference to his Buzca (Polish for grandmother) in a previous post. If indeed you are of Polish extraction, then surely you have felt the sting of bigotry through ethnic jokes and slurs.
5. Of course, TolremApan's purpose in posting the poem is likely to just to raise the ire of people like me, so I guess that he accomplished his purpose. Touché, you win.
posted by historymike at 09:16 A.M. EST on Thu Apr 14, 2005 #
TolremApan,
Thanks for a little levity. I liked it!
But, maybe a title change is in order…
historymike,
Sorry for your own past experiences, but I too have experienced past stereotypical "humor," and survived.
I had to read the poem (particularly the title) twice to find what you reacted to.
I, as MANY others, have learned to laugh it off and let it pass.
That’s how we survived.
We’d then tell these very same jokes amongst ourselves.
They no longer hurt us as they did when we were young, because we learned differently as we grew up. Now, we know better. With our increasing age came wisdom, and tolerance.
Also with age, came a lessening of the need/desire to tell blatantly hurtful jokes, often using the idea, but softening the message. We'd "clean them up" before retelling them.
A suggestion if I may be allowed:
Take a long, slow, deep breath and lighten up, just a little.
The intent may not have been quite as hostile, towards any one group, as you may have perceived… Without the obvious reference in the title, any or no particular group could (should) have been named. Good humor (and, I’m NOT citing this as a good example) crosses all racial and ethnic lines. It is more about HUMAN nature, as I see it.
Look for the HUMAN in any humor before looking for the hurtful/hateful. You might, just might find more to make you smile ;-)
Did these last 2-3 sentences sound a little like tact???
(The curmudgeon suddenly falls off of the soapbox that mysteriously appeared somewhere after the first sentence.) Where'd that soapbox come from anyway???
posted by Hooda_Thunkit at 11:14 A.M. EST on Thu Apr 14, 2005 #
The other issue, of course, is more content-based:
Should the site even be in the business of posting this type of material? TolremApan has plenty of other Internet options for his attempts at humor other than ToledoTalk.
Ostensibly, the site was created by jr to address topics of local, national, and international concern. I struggle to see how TolremApan's lyrical posts fit any qualifier, unless the site expands into a local version of Jokes.Com (I'm being charitable here).
I have plenty of works of fiction and academic writing that I would be happy to post in the interest of self-promotion, but I recognize that this site is not about one person's agenda.
Finally, I respectfully disagree about the suggestion that I "lighten up." If we agree that it is OK to denigrate one group, then the tacit assumption is that this site is open season for bigotry of all types.
posted by historymike at 11:55 A.M. EST on Thu Apr 14, 2005 #
I liked it
posted by mike2004 at 11:48 A.M. EST on Fri Apr 15, 2005 #
The actual stereotype of the West Virginia crowd is that they keep it in the family. In this joke, the family is promiscuous and the parents want to avoid inbreeding.
posted by mike2004 at 11:53 A.M. EST on Fri Apr 15, 2005 #
I understand the joke.
I think that is derogatory and inaccurate.
However, I do not run this board, so feel free to post anything you want. Personally, I try to focus my attention on activity that improves harmony and social cohesion, rather than that which antagonizes or divides people.
If the posters who enjoy the poem cannot see the harmfulness of ethnic, sexist, or racial jokes, so be it. I have more important things to do than to attempt to sway people whose minds are firmly set in place about insulting humor.
I leave this discussion with a quote from German pastor Martin Niemöller:
First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
posted by historymike at 10:12 A.M. EST on Sat Apr 16, 2005 #
First, they came for the smokers
I was happy, i hate them
Then they came for the red light runners
I was happy, i hate them
Then they came for the speeders
I was happy, i hate them
Then they came for the historian
posted by mike2004 at 12:23 P.M. EST on Sat Apr 16, 2005 #
I am puzzled by the last post.
Perhaps you could explain, Mike2004.
Are you intimating that I am some sort of "infringe-on-all-indivdual-freedoms" Nazi?
If so, be aware that I have been guilty, at one point in time or another, of all of the above behaviors.
I will most likely perform any and all of the above actions in the future.
posted by historymike at 12:47 P.M. EST on Sat Apr 16, 2005 #
Another good poem Tolremapan. Post another, jr doesn't seem to mind despite what historymike says.
posted by Kmorgan at 11:20 P.M. EST on Sun Apr 17, 2005 #
I'm just one voice, kmorgan, and I don't pay for this board.
If the community feels that ethnic humor is acceptable, so be it.
posted by historymike at 06:16 A.M. EST on Mon Apr 18, 2005 #
ALRIGHTY THEN
posted by Kmorgan at 02:09 A.M. EST on Tue Apr 19, 2005 #
I can't help but laugh at the comical responses to a harmless poem by.... guess who.... His Story Mike. For someone who claims to have "3 jobs, 4 if you count freelance writing", he certainly does seem to find the time to comment several times on each posted topic (unless, of course, this is the 'freelance writing' part). If one can somehow equate "HillBilly Love Story" to religious denomination and a political ideology in a poem about confiscation of personal liberties, they are so far detached from the "real world", it's surprising they'd be employed at all, and not collecting a Gov't check each month.
Oh...... and since when is "Hillbilly" considered an ethnicity, anyways??
posted by TolremApan at 01:45 A.M. EST on Mon Apr 25, 2005 #
Sigh.
Typical TolremApan: long on ad hominem attacks, short on substance, and devoid of answering the actual questions.
Can't wait to see which group your next bigoted poem skewers. What will it be? Catholic priests? Blacks? Gays? We are all waiting with bated breath.
PS- I always love the irony of a frequent poster telling another frequent poster he posts too much.
posted by historymike at 07:47 A.M. EST on Mon Apr 25, 2005 #
"Typical TolremApan: long on ad hominem attacks, short on substance, and devoid of answering the actual questions."
What questions? All I see from you is "ad hominem attacks, short on substance" (yet, long on wind) "and devoid of" any common sense, whatsoever.
"Can't wait to see which group your next bigoted poem skewers. What will it be? Catholic priests? Blacks? Gays? We are all waiting with bated breath."
Well, apparently your definition of "bigoted poem" is drastically different than mine..... or anyone else's, judging by their comments. So, who is "we all", anyways? Have a couple of mice in your pockets?
"PS- I always love the irony of a frequent poster telling another frequent poster he posts too much."
Remember: A wise man speaks because he has something to say; a fool speaks because he has to say something. (By the way..... how many times have you commented on here? I started counting, but I can't even count up to 21 without pulling down my pants, and there were more than that in one previous post.)
posted by TolremApan at 05:19 A.M. EST on Wed Apr 27, 2005 #
Ummm...the number would be six for me, three for you.
As far as previous posts, I once made 17 posts in a 2-week span on one topic. You made 13 on the "Those Were The Days" thread. I would say that you, like me, are equally prone to heated debate.
If you are unable or unwilling to read the posts in which serious questions were raised, so be it. I am not going to waste my time doing your work for you.
Have a nice day, sir.
posted by historymike at 06:21 A.M. EST on Fri Apr 29, 2005 #
"As far as previous posts, I once made 17 posts in a 2-week span on one topic. "
However, YOU comment on practically every topic... researching, finding links, etc.... and that is time consuming.
Hey, don't get me wrong.... thats great. I'm sure everyone appreciates your input. But, don't bother trying to create the illusion that you're working a bunch of jobs attempting to overcome the evil, oppressive corporate structure which is purposefully keeping you down. If you have the time to comment on here that often, you either don't require much sleep... or, you aren't as busy as you previously claimed.
"You made 13 on the "Those Were The Days" thread."
Well, as usual, you're using an 'out of the ordinary' example to refute a valid point. I actually I made 12 comments, not 13, as the "..Days" topic was my first post. While the majority of my comments were in response to several of your 19 total comments on the "Those Were the Days" topic, all were made to clarify the original submission. I felt it necessary to offer some delineation when you and others tried in vain to twist my words and make unrelated or bogus points.
posted by TolremApan at 06:58 P.M. EST on Sat Apr 30, 2005 #
Actually, sir, I listed my "out of the ordinary" (19) and yours (13).
TolremApan wrote: "Don't bother trying to create the illusion that you're working a bunch of jobs attempting to overcome the evil, oppressive corporate structure which is purposefully keeping you down."
What a load of complete crap. I have never said nor implied that. This is you attempting to stick me into some pre-conceived category of "radical," "communist," or "disaffected liberal."
I work 4 jobs because they fit my schedule, sir, not because "the evil, oppressive corporate structure" is keeping me down. They are all part-time, and they add up to about 50 hours a week. I take classes, raise kids, and work a variety of part-time jobs that allow me to do all of the other important things in my life, especially feed and shelter my family.
Where, pray tell, did you come up with this ridiculous notion that I claim to be repressed by some evil system? Show the link, or recant.
Or just keep on posting baseless attacks; that seems to be your forte.
By the way, when I came up with the number 13 for your personal record, I added the initial post to your 12 comments. I guess you got me there; it should be 1 post plus 12 comments on the "Those Were the Days" topic. Whoa.
Yes, TolremApan's comments are "clarification and delineation," while those of other posters are just attempts to twist your words and "make unrelated or bogus points." Equal parts paranoia and arrogance, wouldn't you say?
My, it must be great to live in your world, TolremApan. Give us some tips on how to be as near-perfect as you, OK?
Better yet, why don't you post whatever you want, and we'll ask jr to make sure no one ever comments on your thoughts, given their divine status. When it comes from the keyboard of TolremApan, it is as if God himself delivered it to us.
posted by historymike at 11:02 P.M. EST on Sat Apr 30, 2005 #
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