You nailed it, jr.
I was thinking the same thing yesterday when I heard the "good" news that the Storm will be back.
Gladieux, in my opinion, never intended to fold the team. This was just a publicity stunt to sell season tickets.
Gladieux may be losing money on the Storm, but you can't tell me he lost money on the $5.00 beers and $2.00 hotdogs. Hey Tim: how about a true accounting that includes concessions, merchandise, and parking?
Only the suckers believe that Gladieux is losing money by owning the Storm.
I worked for the Ilitches and the Red Wings in Detroit during the 1980s, and they would talk about how they were losing their shirts every year.
To the public, that is.
In-house, we all knew that their public "losses" on the Wings were more than offset by the ancillary profits gained as the crowd forked over their hard-earned lucre for food, drinks, and souvenirs. Back then, the average fan spent another $12 on the other stuff, plus $5 to park. I am sure that Gladieux is making a tidy profit on concessions and parking, and that these profits exceed the cost of paying minor-league hockey players and staff.
When I was in the business, the goal in concessions was to hit a 70% profit margin before building expenses. Many was the month we exceeded that goal. Try getting those figures with a non-captive audience in the "real" world. A really successful restaurant might crack 30% profit before non-operating expenses hit the P&L statement.
Toss in a couple of home playoff games for icing on the cake, and Gladieux should not be hurting for money.
Unless, of course, he can't manage his building.
posted by historymike at 11:10 A.M. EST on Thu May 12, 2005 #
First, something odd from the original Blade story that started this topic:
"Whether it belongs in the Marina District in East Toledo ..."
Wait a minute. Does the Marina District actually exist, or is it still only a concept? To me, that sentence implies that the Marina District exists now.
Anyway.
May 15 column by the Blade's Russ Lemmon:
"Should the new arena be built in East Toledo or near Fifth Third Field? Until that question is answered, definitively, one of the most important projects in Toledo's short-term future will remain rudderless. If the project is privately financed, then the location should be left up to the developer. A more likely scenario, I contend, would have Lucas County trying to duplicate the success of financing Fifth Third Field."
Didn't Ray Kest create the plan to finance the new Hens stadium after Toledoans twice voted against a tax to pay for it?
Russ continues:
"There has got to be a way for this paralysis-inducing issue -- East Toledo or near Fifth Third Field? -- to make the ballot. Only after reaching a community consensus regarding the arena's location will we be able to focus on actually getting the job done."
Maybe it's time to think of a location that's not in downtown Toledo. I'm guessing that Toledo area residents don't care where a new arena is built. Most places around town are only a 15-20 minute drive, so what's so fashionable about limiting the location to only downtown? What is important are the events the new arena will host.
How about building a new arena in place of either the old Southwyck or Northtowne malls? Plenty of room exists at those locations. They're not being used for anything else. Parking space is available. For Southwyck, there's a turnpike exit and of course I-475, plus a couple of hotels nearby. Maybe there would still be room leftover to build a business center around the arena too. The Southwyck Sports Arena Complex.
A May 15 Blade story about Tim Gladieux:
"To his detractors, Timothy Gladieux is the man most responsible for the outdated look of Toledo's tired Sports Arena. To his defenders, he is a savvy businessman who has worked tirelessly to keep professional hockey in Toledo."
I wish Toledo area residents would demand a better form of hockey.
"Over the past decade, Mr. Gladieux has come forward with four plans. At one point, facing a competition from a proposed - but never built - arena in suburban Rossford, Mr. Gladieux vowed to break ground within 90 days."
" 'It was a sincere effort,' said Don Monroe, executive director of the River East Economic Revitalization Corp. 'But when he started looking at events that could be booked, it just wasn't there. When push came to shove, they couldn't make the numbers work.' "
So what's changed? Why does a consultant say Toledo can now make the "numbers" work? Maybe the reality is Toledo can't support a new sports arena.
"Mr. Gladieux's most recent proposal hinged on significant public financing, a stance defended by Mr. Kass, the Columbus developer. "Arenas are not money-making propositions today," he said, adding that most such facilities are built with a mix of public and private dollars."
If arenas aren't money-making propositions, then why build one? And I'll play dumb with the phrase "public financing." Is that a polite way of saying a "tax increase?" If I understand Kass correctly, we need to pay more taxes to fund a development project that will lose money. Is that right? I must have that wrong.
"Mr. Kass said local elected officials are responsible for the absence of a new arena because they have been unwilling to commit public dollars."
Seriously, what is meant by "public dollars?" Hey, if we need more taxes to fund it, how about that fast food tax idea? That would be thinking outside the Jack in the Box.
posted by jr at 11:14 A.M. EST on Sun May 15, 2005 #
Well, it seems some kind of a consultant has picked a location for Toledo's new sports arena. And it's some place other than in our minds. I'm losing track of all these consultants and who is working on what.
"Cities like Toledo that want to revive their urban cores and attract young, well-educated residents should cluster sports and entertainment venues in downtown business districts, an Ohio stadium consultant told a Toledo convention [Sunday]."
"Tom Chema, who planned the financing for the downtown Toledo baseball park that opened three years ago, said Fifth Third Field's presence near the SeaGate Convention Centre has encouraged nearby entertainment and residential development, and an arena should probably be sited nearby."
A new arena on the downtown side of the river is definitely not a new idea. Our 'ol buddy Ray Kest pitched a similar plan two years ago.
Actually, a report for a new sports arena near SeaGate was produced 12 years ago. 12 frigging years ago!
"[Lou Anne] Mills was one of the first to raise the arena issue publicly when she and SSOE architect Charlie Stark produced a 57-page report in 1993 promoting the benefits and feasibilities of a new 15,000-seat arena adjacent to the SeaGate Convention Centre."
Mayor Ford doesn't want the arena on the downtown side of the river, and more importantly, neither does the Blade. The Blade has more power than Ford or whoever is the token mayor.
The opening sentence of a May 25 Blade op-ed:
"Building a new sports arena on the 'downtown' side of the river would be a slap in the face of every East Side resident."
Yeah, and what would you call NOT building an arena somewhere, anywhere? 12 years of talk about a new arena and there's still nothing.
The op-ed continues:
"WHO could blame the good folks on the East Side if one day they decided to just pull out of the city and incorporate as a new community? No, we're not serious, but as Toledo's newest suburb, they would at least get an occasional glance from across the river."
Okay. So this is what counts as good editorial writing today.
Here is the gem of the op-ed:
"We keep hearing the word "synergy" a lot. Building a new arena for hockey and other events near the new ballpark, the argument goes, would create a synergistic sports/entertainment district. However, even if there is some merit in the notion, that doesn't make it right."
Yeah, let's not have too much of a reason to go to downtown Toledo. We don't want too much activity in downtown Toledo. Bay City, Michigan has a more vibrant downtown than Toledo. That's a fact and not Blade editorial hyperbole.
More from the op-ed:
"... we continue to hear rumbles that the arena might in fact give way to a big-box store in the "outdoors" business, perhaps a competitor of the giant Cabela's store in Monroe County."
Wow. That's the first time I've heard of that. Maybe it will be a Bass Pro Shops. Now they're talking. I tell ya, I've dropped a lot of coin at the Dundee Cabela's since it opened in 2000. It's my favorite store. A giant outdoors store would probably do better in Toledo than a new sports arena.
The op-ed concludes with:
"The City should resist those who would sacrifice the overall good of the community for their own myopic, self-centered interests, and move ahead to put a new Sports Arena where it belongs, in the heart of the Marina District."
Heart of the Marina District.
Are there signs indicating the Heart of the Marina District? I've got to be missing something. Once again, it sounds like the Marina District already exists. Is that true? If not, how can a new arena be built in the heart of something that doesn't exist except in our minds?
posted by jr at 11:47 A.M. EST on Wed May 25, 2005 #
A May 23 WTOL story:
"Toledo and Lucas County leaders are anxiously awaiting a study that will lay out a location for a new sports arena."
I thought the consultant for this study said the location would have to be decided by the community. Which is it?
This next sentence seems chopped up:
"The location study is due in a week and a half, if it doesn't involve the marina district, county leaders say they are ready to be a partner."
And of course another poll:
"WTOL News 11 and Stan Odesky and Associates conducted a poll on the question, and released the results on Friday. 28% of Toledo residents want it in east Toledo. 27% said downtown, and 39% said it doesn't matter and 6% said they didn't know. Either way, a lot of people want to stop hearing about proposals and studies, and start seeing the construction."
That poll is quite a bit different from the results of an October 2004 Blade-Zogby poll about where to build the sports arena:
"By a 2-to-1 margin - 56 percent to 27 percent - Toledoans say they want the new arena built on the east side of the Maumee River instead of on the west side near the Mud Hens baseball stadium."
When viewing the Blade's poll, I guess we should overlook the fact that the Blade editorial board wants the arena built on the east side of the river.
posted by jr at 12:22 P.M. EST on Wed May 25, 2005 #
jr,
Apparently you’ve taken a breather from your quest ;-)
And, you seem to be the unwilling recipient/victim of a massive propaganda attack from The Poll of the Month Club too :-)
Most of those polls ARE FLAWED, because they left the most relevant/obvious answer:
Those that no longer give a rat’s *ss…
THAT is the one that I’d choose (if I didn’t fall asleep from the sheer boredom of the topic first.
Yep! S.O.S.D.D. or, in military terms, S.N.A.F.U.
Toledo Ohio:
The biggest one-horse town… ANYWHERE.
Toledo Ohio:
Where men are men and absentee rag editors are idiots!
Toledo Ohio:
Where fools (and absentee rag editors) rush in, where angels fear to tread.
(Just in case anyone missed it, IMNHO,the Philadelphia Phantom is an IDIOT!)
Hmmmfffff.
Time to take my meds again, and chill.
posted by Hooda_Thunkit at 07:02 P.M. EST on Wed May 25, 2005 #
A meaningless poll is a firestarter for a meaningful conversation. Or is it the other way around?
posted by jr at 11:33 P.M. EST on Wed May 25, 2005 #
"A $70,000 study commissioned by the city of Toledo comes down on the side of building a new arena downtown rather than on the Marina District site on the east side. The study was conducted by the Pizzuti Cos., of Columbus, which is the city's selected developer of the Marina District."
Since this decision goes against the thinking of Ford and the Blade, we can expect another five years to go by without a new arena.
"William Carroll, the city's development director, said Mayor Jack Ford wants to hold several community workshops to let residents, particularly those in East Toledo, absorb the conclusions of the long-awaited study."
What? That recent poll above shows that nobody needs help absorbing anything except maybe why nothing has been done in recent years.
"In 2001, city voters gave the city permission to spend city money in support of an arena in the Marina District."
I wonder if voters in 2001 ever imagined that nearly four years later there would still be no arena? As to paying for it ...
"Mr. Carroll said the model of Fifth Third Field, built by Lucas County, is one that could be followed. Such a development could involve the county taking over control of the arena."
posted by jr at 01:08 P.M. EST on Thu Jun 02, 2005 #
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