Some say the district would create too rowdy an atmosphere
So, let me get this right... the allure of living in a downtown residential community is the chance to get away from the bustle of the city and get some peace and quiet?!! If it's too rowdy, go move to the suburbs and let people who like a vibrant, busy nightlife come move in... Sheesh!
posted by Guest at 01:27 A.M. EST on Wed Jan 26, 2005 #
Sometimes you wonder whether these people wouldn't be happier if everybody just left so they could enjoy their deserted downtown. Wait a minute... what would that do to their property values?
posted by Guest at 05:09 P.M. EST on Wed Jan 26, 2005 #
They would remain the same... the property values, that is.
posted by Guest at 08:31 A.M. EST on Fri Jan 28, 2005 #
Speaking of downtown districts, has anyone checked on the registration of the now-defunct website TheMentalBlock.net? I did, and discovered:
Administrative Contact: Kest, Ray
d29ep9m95cv@networksolutionsprivateregistration.com
ATTN: THEMENTALBLOCK.NET
c/o Network Solutions
P.O. Box 447
Herndon, VA 20172-0447
570-708-8780
(I found this out by using the site www.betterwhois.com. You must then click on a link to get a "complete record".)
posted by Guest at 05:59 P.M. EST on Sun Jan 30, 2005 #
"A proposed "community entertainment district" that would allow up to 15 new liquor permits in the Warehouse District passed a Toledo City Council committee yesterday 7-0, and heads to the full council for a vote Feb. 22."
"Speakers at yesterday's hearing warned that the residential component of the Warehouse District could be threatened by new noise-generating bars. They complained that the district was drawn up in secrecy and never shared with the Toledo Warehouse District Association."
What? Secrecy? No, never. Toledo government wouldn't ever do anything in secret.
"While sympathetic, council members said more entertainment, in the form of bars and restaurants, is part of the recipe for a strong downtown."
"The price of acquiring an existing liquor permit is between $20,000 and $40,000. The new liquor permits in the entertainment district will cost $2,344 each, according to the state Division of Liquor Control."
posted by jr at 10:44 P.M. EST on Thu Feb 10, 2005 #
I've been reading about this "secret" entertainment district for the last couple months. I don't believe too many in the community know exactly what this entails. Bars, restaurants...what else? Is it going to be a place for new strip clubs and make it easier to find the local tricks and crackies or what? Is it planning on being anything like Main Street in Ann Arbor (arts, festivals, family, culture)? Anyone have more info? I'm all for doing what I can do see downtown Toledo be anything like what it was 50+ years ago. Shopping, dining, dancing, etc. As for more trash...I can see where folks would be against this.
posted by interest at 12:38 P.M. EST on Wed Mar 16, 2005 #
There are clubs in downtown. drive down superior street on a friday at about 10:00p.m. there are people everywhere. There's club Bijou, eclipse, rain, 7, there's more I can't think of the names though.
posted by Kmorgan at 02:15 P.M. EST on Thu Mar 17, 2005 #
It's not New York or anything close but there is some life after 5:00 in downtown Toledo
posted by Kmorgan at 02:18 P.M. EST on Thu Mar 17, 2005 #
KMORGAN...are you even aware of the topic? Who said there weren't ANY clubs downtown? Do you actually have any knowledge on the entertainment district issue or are you just seeing how many one-liners you can post as soon as you get home? Fridays after 10pm does not constitute prosperous downtown. How old are you anyways? I'd guess about 20 from your references to the Bijou.
posted by interest at 04:25 P.M. EST on Thu Mar 17, 2005 #
Interest:
Try one-syllable words and short sentences. That might help with Kmorgan. He seems to read only parts of posts.
posted by historymike at 06:04 P.M. EST on Thu Mar 17, 2005 #
Toledo Entertainment District?? That strikes me as an oxymoron.
Oh, I see, it's for sports bars etc. around the ballpark. Presumeably, crack whores, strip clubs etc. would not be under consideration as entertainment since they'd be contra the presumed "family" atmosphere appropriate such a venue. But, having said that, crack whores, strip clubs etc. are part of the urban landscape - especially entertainment districts.
For example, in, say, Baltimore, you don't have to stray far from the Inner Harbor to run into them.
Is there really a budding residential area down there?? I must admit that I haven't been to "downtown" much, and when I have been there, it wasn't that impressive residentially or entertainment-wise.
As an aside, I must admit, my idea of downtown Toledo redevelopment is to tear everything down and turn it into a park (charge parking fees?) or a golf course.
Anyway, typically, part of the, ah, charm of urban living is bars, crack whores etc., so I'd think that you couldn't complain too much if you did live down there. Having said that, entertainment probably should be closer to the ballpark, wherever that is, versus farther away from it.
swd
posted by swd at 03:42 P.M. EST on Fri Mar 18, 2005 #
"Is there really a budding residential area down there??"
Yes, very much so. Walk around the warehouse district. I think it would be damn cool to live down there.
posted by jr at 05:44 P.M. EST on Fri Mar 18, 2005 #
No you people talk like there is absolutely no night life in downtown. I'm just telling you there is. and there is a huge apartment complex on Superior, can't think of the name of it though. I'm only pointing out the fact that five years ago there was only one club in downtown Toledo, Bijou.
Now there are thos restaraunts on the water front deal and five maybe more clubs. It's not like there aren't any clubs whatsoever. I understand that five clubs and a few restaraunts isn't prosperous, but it's a start.
Interest and historymike talk so viorously about downtown, but they've never even seen or been in the clubs that actually exist, so my question is why do they care.
posted by Kmorgan at 12:39 P.M. EST on Sat Mar 19, 2005 #
Kmorgan:
1. You don't even know me, but you are going to make comments about what clubs I have attended? There is only one word to describe such thought: ignorant.
2. Dude, I have been in more Toledo clubs and bars in my 20+ years of drinking than you can imagine. If they pour it, I've been there, including the newer clubs.
3. Five years ago, there were plenty of clubs in downtown Toledo. There have always been lots of clubs and bars. They come and go. Our concerns on this page extend beyond the retailers and purveyors of ethyl alcohol. A vibrant downtown includes a heck of a lot more than booze and music.
4. What, exactly, is "viorously?" I am unfamiliar with this word. Please educate me.
posted by historymike at 02:02 P.M. EST on Sat Mar 19, 2005 #
I work downtown (not like that!) AND do my best to enjoy what is considered "nightlife" in Toledo. Luckily, I am easy to please. I don't believe Toledo is supposed to be a dull city. Holy Toledo! The fact is that plenty of people are scheming to make Toledo awesome for any currently living as well as passing through. Where's the support??? Well, not many people know what scemes are underway so it's hard to put your support out there.
There are many things to do but it's all about NOT passing all of the vacant, neglected, buildings on your way from the Repetoire to the bijou to Wesley's to Bistro, etc. How nice would it be to be able to enjoy the majority of downtown rather than having to get in your car to skip the blocks of wasted buildings? Jack, just clean things up, pull the brick out of your ass, and give us Toledoans a reason to be proud of our city! Take a chance and hurry it up!!! This should've been finished when 5/3rd field opened!
posted by interest at 07:00 P.M. EST on Sat Mar 19, 2005 #
The aims of preservationists and pro-growth advocates need not be in opposition with each other. The examples of communities such as Savannah, New Orleans, and especially Charleston can be examined to find that happy balance between saving history and promoting development.
In my opinion, the preservationists have wasted too much political capital on opposing the Fifth Third project. None of the buildings possesses any significant historical value beyond their age, and the architecture, while interesting, is not particularly striking. I, as an advocate of preserving history, must part company with the "save every old building at any cost" extremists.
However, the city has done a lousy job of working with Fifth Third on alternate sites. I would bet that Fifth Third would have considered alternate sites had the city put forth effort to help them relocate. The biggest chunk of blame should fall on the development and planning departments, rather than on preservationists. There is an entrenched bureaucratic oligarchy in City Hall that wastes not only taxpayer monies but also stands in the way of any projects, whether preservationist or developmental.
I offer as an anecdote my experience in re-mounting a sign on one of my former businesses. Some neighborhood hoodlums had torn it down one night, and I got my hammer, some nails, and a couple of tubes of Liquid Nails to put it back up. As I struck my third or fourth nail, who should pull up behind me but the sign inspector. She informed me that I needed a permit for my sign. I pointed to the metal tag that was still on the sign, arguing that I paid already paid the fee.
The inspector held her ground, saying that a new fee had to be paid whenever a sign was replaced. It didn't matter that this wasn't a new sign.
Now, a smarter, more suave, or less stubborn person would have just forked over the $85 bucks and gotten on with life. Of course, I fall into none of the aforementioned categories, and decided to fight the thing on principle.
I went through several levels of bureacracy and even considered an appeal before the Building Commission before giving up. No one would override the inspector, and the appeal required a $150 filing fee. Eventually, I just gave up and paid the extra fee. They were, however, willing to forgive the fine for my "transgression." Yay.
Aw, what the heck, how about another story?
I bought my house in 1990, and proceeded to work my arse off on improvements. One of my bigger projects was the construction of a 20x10 backyard deck. My wife and I spent about a week on it, buying a kit from a hardware store.
So, ten years go by. A tax appraiser showed up one day, looking for ways to raise the value of the house and give the county more tax. He noted the "new" deck and marked it on his form, which added maybe $30 bucks to my annual taxes. Not so bad, right?
Imagine my surprise when I got a letter from the city of Toledo, telling me I owed them $130 for a construction permit ($50 base fee + $.15 per Square foot + $50 plan review). Imagine also my shock at the fines they tacked on: $250 for faling to pull a permit first, PLUS another $130 because the permit fee is doubled when you don't pull a construction permit! All told, they wanted $510 for permit fees and fines on a 10-year old deck.
I spent three months straightening that mess out, finally negotiating them down to the original $130.
I can only imagine how much BS the city puts contractors through on major projects, if they gave me so much hell on the small ones I undertook.
posted by historymike at 08:28 P.M. EST on Sat Mar 19, 2005 #
the word was vigorously,
Dude, you must be some kind of raging alcoholic dude.
What else would make downtown jumping, dude? Like some kind of big art museum or something, dude? Maybe an opera house dude. Yeah I would love to attend the opera dude. How about a new stadium dude?
Oh and dude there wasn't any clubs in downtown except Bijou five years ago, alright educator dude.
posted by Kmorgan at 06:25 P.M. EST on Sun Mar 20, 2005 #
Wow, Kmorgan, you are amazing to be able to diagnose people's addictions over the Internet. Actually, it isn't hard to visit every downtown bar when there are so few, and you work downtown. By your count (seven) it would take me a week to hit them all, max.
I wish I had extra-sensory perception like you.
Your question was: "What else would make downtown jumping, dude?"
Instead of quick-fix solutions (like casinos), or tourist/entertainment solutions (like bars, stadiums, or museums), downtowns need one thing more than anything else to thrive:
Residents.
Until there is a solid base of downtown and near-downtown residents, our downtown area will continue to be a ghost town except when the Mudhens are in town, or when people are bar-hopping.
And there were plenty of clubs downtown five years ago. Believe it or not, people went to clubs before you turned 21, sir.
Back when you were a minor (which was, what, five years ago?) people were attending clubs which have long since gone.
Bars and clubs have notriously short lifespans and are high-risk ventures; that's why they come and go so frequently.
They just might not have fit your definition of a "jumping" club.
posted by historymike at 08:02 P.M. EST on Sun Mar 20, 2005 #
Name the clubs that existed in downtown five years ago. Enlighten me. I'll give you one, Bijou.
You can cover seven bars in seven days, and your sire your not an alcoholic. Are you depressed or something. Nobody should drink like that Mike. I'm speaking to you as a Toledo Talk friend, seek help. It shouldn't take a maximum of seven days to visit seven bars. may be a minimum of seven days. You also better watch it remember you said you are pretty much a hop skip and a jump from poverty, you don't want to waste your last bucks on the booze.
Oh we need residents in downtown. OK well let find a magic wand and make more people want to live there. Actually if you build a casino or two your talking a couple thousand employees, I bet they would have a reason to live in downtown, they'd work there, just like you said you do, imagine that. Casinos a temporary fix? I don't think so getting people to livein downtown with no attractions, yeah that sounds temporary to me.
posted by Kmorgan at 02:21 P.M. EST on Mon Mar 21, 2005 #
I don't drink 7 days a week, sir.
READ the post. I know it's hard, but try, OK?
I said that I COULD cover 7 bars in 7 days. Get it? 1 bar per day. 7 days per week.
NOT that I actually do. In fact, I haven't touched the stuff in a long time.
But that's another story.
However, I'm beginning to think that you post odd statements just to get people angry, not to have intelligent discussions. If so, you have problems, sir.
Here's a bar for you that has come and gone: Banana Joe's? Remember it? Big splash in 1999 or 2000 when it opened. It lasted, what, 2 years, 3 years?
How about the Main Event? Granted, it was on the other side of the King Bridge, but it was a happening spot.
Then there's Caesars, Bretz, and Hooterville Station. They were always there, although Bretz got shut down after a patron downloaded porno.
Mug Shots has been downtown forever.
Easy Street Cafe has been there for at least a decade.
These are just the ones that come to mind.
posted by historymike at 03:49 P.M. EST on Mon Mar 21, 2005 #
Bars don't count. I said clubs, as in dance clubs. Not Mug shots which is on what Lagrange and Summit, barely downtown. Caesars another bar yeah these bars have been there, but I said clubs, Don't you know the diffrence.
You should try reading your own post you said it would take a MAXIMUM of seven days to visit 7 bars. That means no longer than seven days.
It would take me like two months to visit seven bars at a MINIMUM. That is I can't do it in less than two months. I simply don't have time to go drinking everynight of the week.
Anyway mikey I figured you were going to name most of these bars anyway. To bad I said clubs. Mugshots is not a club and it is not in downtown. I don't think Banana Joes was there five years ago in fact it opened in 2000. Never heard of Bretz or Hootersville where are they located when did they open? WOW maybe there were three instead of one club in dsowntown five years ago.
posted by Kmorgan at 09:13 P.M. EST on Mon Mar 21, 2005 #
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