Toledo Talk

Stop telling me there's a recession!

To all you unemployed people- be innovative! Buy a rake for $18 and go from door to door raking leaves. If you do 4 yards for $30 each, you'll make $120 per day x 30= $3600 month!!! (ok thats assuming there is good weather each day- but let's think positive and say there is good weather) Do the leaves in Ottawa Hills or Sylvania and you could probably ask for $50- after spending 3 hours doing my front yard myself- I gladly would have paid someone else to do it for me.

Stop complaining there are no jobs out there! People just don't want to work hard for their money like they did during the Great Depression. THINK CREATIVE PEOPLE!!

Sorry to rant- I'm usually a pretty cheerful person....

created by MrsA on Nov 12, 2011 at 05:35:51 pm     Business     Comments: 85

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Comments ... #

Are you advocating working for cash under the table, so to speak, and not paying the required withholding taxes or paying the required self employed workmans compensation? If one does what you suggest legally, the initial workmans comp fee and the federal state and local withholding would probably put you in the hole the first quarter of work.

An unemployed aquaintance of mine is doing small landscape design and install jobs. Taxes and insurance rendered her a monetary loss for the first quarter she worked. That's not including the startup costs for equipment. Right now she cant afford to buy much but she did get a used power edger for $875. You cant claim the edger as an expense. It has to be depreciated over time. It isn't as easy as you think Mrs. A.

posted by holland on Nov 12, 2011 at 05:57:02 pm     #  

Where did you get the whole don't pay tax advocation? I never said do not pay taxes,
If you strictly rake leaves (so you only have to buy a rake), go from door-to-door as opposed to advertise- your costs are low. Go ahead and take taxes out- 30% you're still left with $2400. It may be simplistic- but you're missing the point here holland. There are jobs out there.

posted by MrsA on Nov 12, 2011 at 06:09:21 pm     #   2 people liked this

People who want to pay for leaf removal usually hire landscapers who use blowers, not rakes, and get it done in less than half the time. But you've inspired me to come up with other ways to make money.

When the leaves are gone, buy a carving knife and whittle some toothpicks out of downed trees. Then sell them to diners. C'mon people there are jobs out there. Quit being lazy.

You can also buy a ladder and offer to hang x-mas lights.

Post on craig's list that you'll spend thanksgiving waiting in line for someone until the stores open.

Collect old newspapers from recycling containers and offer x-mas gift wrapping at people's houses. While there, scope out the place for other things to steal.

Make homemade candles. With all the prayer vigils going on, you'll make a killing. (no pun intended)

more suggestions.......

posted by hockeyfan on Nov 12, 2011 at 06:27:51 pm     #  

The folks in Ottawa Hills and Sylvania with that kind of money have lawn companies that do leaves as part of their contracted services. $3,600 a month? Dream on.

The difference between the Great Depression and the Great Recession is that people in the early 1930s cared more about each other. My grandparents regularly fed drifters who knocked on their farmhouse door looking for work. They couldn't provide employment, but no one went away hungry. Knocking on doors today could get you arrested.

posted by shortysmom on Nov 12, 2011 at 06:30:38 pm     #  

I live in Sylvania. My neighbor (age 50) lost his job last year, He has been doing yard work, delivering newspapers, shoveling snow...anything he can do to make a buck. I have paid him cash to do my lawn/snow and Fall cleanup.

Contrast this with the person (aged 40) who was telling me that she is poor and has had her electricity cut off. She then mentioned that 5th Third had offered full time employment but she was not going to work for $8/hr as a teller.

I had a Master's degree and was completing a Ph.D when I took a job watching a sick lady from 11:00pm until dawn...for #3.50/hr (back in the early 80's).

The "poor" featured in the Blade are typically over-fed , stupid and lazy.

Rant off :(

posted by Star56 on Nov 12, 2011 at 06:45:43 pm     #   1 person liked this

I live in Sylvania and have a company who does my yard (they're just over booked right now). So , if a guy came and asked me to do my yard for $50 I'd say yes- I'm going to pay this company $100 for the same work. And to be honest if it takes him 1 hour or 4 I really do not care- they are working outside- not in my house.

Shortysmom- We have a snowblower, but if a high school kid or comes to my door or a needy person and asks me to shovel my driveway I would say yes.

Amen Star56!!

Still not sure if you're being cynical or serious Hockeyfan :)

posted by MrsA on Nov 12, 2011 at 07:08:41 pm     #   1 person liked this

What the.... I don't even...

posted by JJFad on Nov 12, 2011 at 07:21:32 pm     #  

there is a recession.

doesn't mean there aren't ways to make meanial cash including taking care of snobs in sylvania - no, i am not saying everyone in sylvania is a snob

but, yes, there a recession

posted by enjoyeverysandwich on Nov 12, 2011 at 07:28:34 pm     #   4 people liked this

Ok, I know there is a recession. I'm not oblivious to that fact. It's just a rant to motivate people to take some initiative with their financial situation.

People can take this as an opportunity to do something for themselves. Rake leaves all fall- take the money and buy a snowblower than clean driveways all winter- take the money from that and buy a riding lawn mower.... whatever. Before you know it, you've saved a little nest egg to perhaps start a lawn service. What happened to the entrepreneurial spirit?

And yes enjoyeverysandwich we are not all snobs in Sylvania... my husband works Monday-Friday and some weekends which limits the time he can spend on the yard work. I have children and work a full time job. We're willing to take some of our hard earned money to give someone else the chance to improve their financial situation.

posted by MrsA on Nov 12, 2011 at 07:54:35 pm     #   2 people liked this

Shaking my head. Just no clue.

posted by taxiang on Nov 12, 2011 at 08:11:47 pm     #  

MrsA, you have some good ideas. Along with generating some income, I wish that people who complain about their circumstances would take a good look at how they spend their cash.

Unlimited cell phone plans? Cable TV with extra sports and movie channels? Buying department store "bargains" because a tag said it was once $55, but is now "only" $19? Paying for soft drinks at restaurants when water is free? Getting brand-name prepared food with a coupon, when potatoes and rice and apples cost mere pennies? Buying refreshments at movie theaters? Making an entertainment event out of holiday shopping (see Black Friday rant in another thread!) instead of giving simple, homemade gifts?

Not to derail this thread, but try googling Oprah's poverty project some time. She announced that she would personally guarantee financial assistance, education, whatever was needed to lift a certain number of families out of poverty. Although she had the best of intentions, the project quietly disappeared, never to be mentioned again. I think she discovered that there are people who are unable to, or who don't want to, do anything to better themselves, even if a millionaire holds their hand throughout the process.

Sometimes the people who would benefit most from commonsense solutions fail to exhibit any common sense.

Also, the entrepreneurial spirit is a gift that not everyone is given. I've been surprised by how many people in the workplace just want to be responsible for one simple task -- they really do not want to have to analyze situations or solve problems. Yet they are hard workers who expect to put in a fair day's work for their paycheck.

posted by viola on Nov 12, 2011 at 08:22:02 pm     #   1 person liked this

In all seriousness, meeting people who were directly affected by the depression, my grand parents, you find out quickly that they will do anything to make money for their family.
Today, too many people have had it too good. They don't want to do anything. They want to flip burgers or be a cashier and make a "living wage". That's crap.

I really do agree that if you are at the end of your rope financially, raking leaves, yardwork, etc. can get you some pocket money at least. It's something that may even lead to something better. Sitting on the couch complaining about no work never got anyone anywhere.

posted by hockeyfan on Nov 12, 2011 at 09:54:23 pm     #   1 person liked this

Star: She then mentioned that 5th Third had offered full time employment but she was not going to work for $8/hr as a teller.

Multiple choice test for what's fucked up. Read carefully:

Option A: $8/hr x 40 hrs of working per week = $320 before taxes

Option B: 0 hrs of working x 2 hrs of pretending to find a job through the state database,,, etc = $300 "unemployment" check per week.

Option C: Do odd jobs that need to be done for cash and be accused of not paying taxes, not getting permits, not filing the right paperwork by local, state, and federal pencil-pushers = potential IRS troubles simply for trying to work for money instead of having it handed to you. You bastard.

Quite a system...

posted by oldhometown on Nov 12, 2011 at 10:27:35 pm     #   3 people liked this

If you're a small business guy, trying to get started and build a business, and in the process doing the right thing by paying your taxes, getting insurance etc., you would at least like to make a profit at some point. Hard to do when fly by nights undercut your price because they don't pay any taxes.

I'm particularly sensitive to this issue having been a small business person. It would really piss me off when I'd offer someone a job and they would turn it down because my independant competitor down the street paid under the table, hence their take home pay was considerably better for the same hourly wage, not to mention the profit to the business from tax avoidance. And here's the big kicker. Many of them were also on welfare. If they got paid under the table they still collected their benefits. That REALLY pissed me off. This went on for years. Many times. However, I'm smiling now. That independant competitor filed for bankruptcy and was foreclosed on. The place sits empty.

I don't mind someone trying to put food on the table by working odd jobs for cash. More power to 'em. Just don't try to make a business out of it. A lot of small guys are putting food on their table AND playing by the rules.

posted by holland on Nov 12, 2011 at 10:59:14 pm     #  

I'm not touching something like this. MrsA , you are shallow, short sighted, and callous to the real world.

posted by OhioKimono on Nov 12, 2011 at 11:38:17 pm     #   2 people liked this

holland, how about trying to start a small business that barely breaks even and trying to find an accountant so that you can pay your taxes and stay out of trouble. It's insane.

posted by hockeyfan on Nov 13, 2011 at 01:09:03 am     #  

I know and sympathize. I've done that. I worked two jobs. One in my own business where I didn't take a salary and put all the profits back in to build it. The other was to help support our family. My husband put all of his retirement savings in from his prior employer to put inventory on the shelves. Kraft macaroni & cheese and hot dogs were a common meal at our house. Our cars were insane clunkers. Luckily my husband was good at repairs and putting in a water pump or replacing a radiator was not an unusual occurrence.

I changed accountants four times in 35 yrs. The best was the last. Clark, King and Associates on W Central Ave. He's a solo practitioner, Don King CPA (Clark retired). Fairly reasonable as CPA's go and very, very good.

My hat's off to anyone who is beginning the self employment road today. It takes guts.

posted by holland on Nov 13, 2011 at 10:18:42 am     #  

I don't agree that everyone can make a living raking leaves. However, buried in the controversy of this topic, there have been a few constructive suggestions to those who might be needing to make extra money to get by. I wanted to add another idea to that list.

(In a helpful spirit, not in a "do this to get by or else you're lazy" way. And I'm not insinuating that anyone could make a full time living from these ideas, but it could help people with extra money to help make ends meet.)

People spend lots of money on pet-related services. Pet sitting, dog walking, pet waste removal, etc. For those who are creative or talented, people also spend money on fancy items (collars, dog clothes, etc.) and specialty pet treats.

Also, I have noticed that some parents of young girls spend quite a bit of money on fancy hairbows and other hair accessories. A person with the right talent could make those for minimal supply cost - ribbon isn't that expensive. I don't have the talent for that, but the right person could make some extra pocket money that way.

(Actually, come to think of it, a woman I went to high school with does that. She's a SAHM who makes some extra pocket money that way, and it appears that her only real advertising is word of mouth and posting pictures of her wares on Facebook.)

I do wish the best of luck to those who are seeking gainful employment - its a tough market out there.

posted by mom2 on Nov 13, 2011 at 10:35:51 am     #   2 people liked this

"I'm not touching something like this. MrsA , you are shallow, short sighted, and callous to the real world."

Are you kidding me? I'm trying to motivate people to be creative in this time of recession and you call me shallow, short sighted, and callous. How the heck do you figure that? Ok, I'll just give some guy panhandling on Talmadge $20 instead. that should help this recession come to an end.

posted by MrsA on Nov 13, 2011 at 11:11:48 am     #   2 people liked this

This isnt motivation - this is insulting.

posted by OhioKimono on Nov 13, 2011 at 11:17:31 am     #   12 people liked this

Sorry, but if I'm going door-to-door and raking leaves and other odd jobs for $20 to $50 a pop, I am not going to be claiming anything on a tax return. Not happening.

posted by HickoryG on Nov 13, 2011 at 11:18:45 am     #   2 people liked this

Let's not forget that with the extent of long-term unemployment and underemployment, even the market for odd jobs is quite saturated.

posted by mom2 on Nov 13, 2011 at 11:35:50 am     #   1 person liked this

Sorry, but if I'm going door-to-door and raking leaves and other odd jobs for $20 to $50 a pop, I am not going to be claiming anything on a tax return. Not happening.

My thoughts exactly.

posted by oldhometown on Nov 13, 2011 at 11:42:30 am     #   1 person liked this

I agree with Holland. Owning my own business I have lost numerous jobs this year to "hacks" that don't carry insurance or anything else that is required in the state of Ohio.

For example, I did a bid for a large living room with vaulted ceilings. This included sanding down walls and ceilings, repairing any holes or cracks, 2 coats on the ceiling and 2 coats on walls. I bid it for 300 bucks, and even there it left me little profit after my overhead. I lost the job to a guy that was willing to do it for 100 bucks. Heck paint alone would cost me almost 120 bucks.

posted by lfrost2125 on Nov 13, 2011 at 12:11:38 pm     #  

$300 sounds cheap. Wanna do my vaulted living room?

posted by HickoryG on Nov 13, 2011 at 12:17:46 pm     #  

That is cheap.

I would love to do it for you but I only have insurance till the end of November and I'm on a decent sized addition job now that will take me till Thanksgiving week. After that I am going to go work for a guy that I worked with at another company years ago. I'm just getting sick of being underbid and dealing with these hacks. If I took it I would be just as bad as the guys that undercut me.

If you want I can give you the number of the guy that I will be working with but no guarantee it would be the same price.

posted by lfrost2125 on Nov 13, 2011 at 12:34:46 pm     #  

I have always wondered what it might cost to have my vaulted living room painted. It really needs to be done, but I always thought it would be way out of my price range.

Its interesting to see the $300 estimate though. (Obviously knowing that different factors could affect the price.) Might be worth the extra money to save us the pain in the butt of trying to do it ourselves.

Something to think about anyhow...though it wouldn't be feasible until well after the holidays. Assuming that my husband doesn't lose his job after the first of the year, as he suspects he might. Sigh.

posted by mom2 on Nov 13, 2011 at 12:36:03 pm     #  

(I posted the above before seeing lfrost's update about only having insurance through the end of November...)

posted by mom2 on Nov 13, 2011 at 12:36:55 pm     #  

Hold on...I think we're getting bogged down discussing two different things.

The "doing odd jobs" I'm talking about is doing things that any ordinary man/woman can do with the basic skills they have, offering those skills to someone who doesn't have the time or capability to do those things. We should not be either punishing or "looking down upon" these people. They are taking initiative to get a little extra cash during hard times.

Examples (some mentioned before): raking leaves, shoveling snow, cleaning gutters, cleaning basements, garages, yardwaste, painting (sorry lfrost)...and general fix-it repairs that do NOT take a pro to do. Just handyman chores. For example, I'm fairly good with basic wiring, so I've changed light switches and plugs for some older neighbors who are afraid of electrical work. You don't need to hire a damn electrician (at $$$ per hour) to do that--and they paid me a few bucks for my time (or had my wife and I over for dinner). Now if they said "can you run a new line from the box", I'd say "no fucking an electrician".

Now, lfrost: it sounds like you were outbid by someone who is going to do shitty work (if they show up at all). Don't worry, those homeowners be back begging you to re-do that guy's fuck-ups. Vaulted ceilings suck. In my younger, crazier days before I realized I could die working on rooftops, I did some chimney repair...and I remember how many jobs we did fixing the fuckups of the "cheap" companies the homeowners got such a deal on. That experience alone convinced me that I might pay 20-30% more for a reputable fix, but at least I won't pay that price, plus be out the money I spent on the fuck-ups.

Anyway, my basic point is that if someone has a skill they can use to make a little on the side, we shouldn't be punishing it. We should be encouraging people to work--especially in areas where all it takes is initiative and physical movement, not the expertise of a fully-trained artisan.

posted by oldhometown on Nov 13, 2011 at 12:46:53 pm     #  

Oh I have no problem with people doing a "good" for someone they know. Just be careful with the electrical because if something happens it could come back on you. But a light switch and such is pretty simple and hard to mess up, but you'd be surprised at the electricians that I've seen that can't do a simple light switch correctly.

It's funny but people usually bitch about me raising my price to fix someone else's screw-ups. It's like they don't understand that I have to fix what the other person screwed-up plus what really needs to be done to make it last.

Sorry mom2. If down the road you wanna get a price I'll give ya the number of the guy I'll be working for. He's a good respectable guy and he's professional. I've worked on and off with him through the years when he had larger jobs and I wasn't doing anything and the customer has always been happy with the work done.

posted by lfrost2125 on Nov 13, 2011 at 01:04:18 pm     #  

Some of what I posted see here is the belief that the only reason people are unemployed or poor is because they lack motivation. This demonstrates a profound inability to understand what really happens sometimes in life. (And also in working and in small business enterprises.) Its also an excuse to justify a feeling of superiority. It hasn't happened to them because they perceive themselves better in some way and by God if it did they wouldn't remain poor or jobless for long. There is a total lack of "There but for the grace of God go I."

posted by holland on Nov 13, 2011 at 03:24:19 pm     #   5 people liked this

I am almost at a total loss of words here... Who says this in the poverty capitol of the US? There are no jobs out there.. That goes for teens, college kids and those who earned degrees. It is a real mess and I have a real issue with anyone who does not have some compassion for those who are trying to find a job. Chronic unemployment/underemployment is debilitating. Being creative when you are just trying to pay your bills and put a meal on the table is impossible. Not having a job that will pay those bills, most likely a job without benefits, and staring at an Edison bill that has a shut off notice attached is enough to suck the creativity right out of you. I have a BA, am an award winning writer and am currently working for a secret shopping company (part time, no benefits) editing reports for $9 p/hr. As for being creative, I am freelancing for two local newspapers. SO, I work three jobs. You want a real kick in the teeth... How about winning a Touchstone Award and then walking in the next day to look at reports,complete with pictures of dirty toilets, and cleaning up horrible writing? The worst thing about all of this is that I am one of the few LUCKY ones because I have a job. It drives me insane when people shoot their mouths off without thinking. I am sorry for the rant, but this subject just ticks me off!

posted by golddustwoman on Nov 13, 2011 at 04:57:08 pm     #   4 people liked this

I sincerely wish you better days ahead golddustwoman. I know its rough and nasty out there.

posted by holland on Nov 13, 2011 at 07:06:25 pm     #  

Personally, is some 40 year old shows up with a rack in hand and offers to rake my yard for $30, I'm going to say "no".

I don't want some unvetted stranger walking around my yard, garage and shed. I have small kids, no thanks.

posted by SensorG on Nov 13, 2011 at 07:32:30 pm     #   3 people liked this

I don't know sensor depends on what her "Rack" looks like lol

posted by lfrost2125 on Nov 13, 2011 at 08:03:38 pm     #   1 person liked this

Oops, that's funny!

posted by SensorG on Nov 13, 2011 at 08:07:27 pm     #  

People do NOT want to work.

WTOL story from August. This is why I have little or no compassion for the unemployed.

posted by Star56 on Nov 13, 2011 at 08:23:52 pm     #   2 people liked this

^ I have been job hunting for 7 months, 10+ resumes a week. I clean house and have a small private business to get by. I am working...and these blanket statements about "well if you are unemployed you are lazy" are shallow, uneducated, and narrow minded.

posted by OhioKimono on Nov 13, 2011 at 08:31:07 pm     #   2 people liked this

Hey - star56 implys that everyone who was working but got laid off, or got sick or injured and aren't healthy enough to work at their last job, must have done it deliberately because they didn't want to work. In addition star56 seems to imply that everyone, degreed or not, experienced or not, is best suited for a $10hr factory job. Yup that's the answer. Geez.

I can honestly see why someone, say with a Bachelors in Business Administration, who had been making $75,000 a yr. and got dumped because the plant shipped work overseas would hesitate to put a factory job on his/her resume. It doesn't look all that good to the next possible employer.

Its also highly unlikely that a company would give a $10 hr factory job to someone with a college degree and who was previously making a very good wage. One - They say that person was over qualified for the position. Two - They assume that this individual would be actively looking for a job in their field of expertise and experience and would quit as soon as they found something better. The company would not want to risk making the training investment.

There are 13.9 million unemployed people in the US. The answer to each is a $10hr factory job. If they don't get that factory job its because they don't want to work. Really. I'd find it laughable if it wasn't so stupid and mean.

posted by holland on Nov 13, 2011 at 09:00:38 pm     #  

Any comment on the man on the video who can't find workers to fill jobs? Is he lying?

You have cobbled together work. You are not the type of person he is discussing.

posted by Star56 on Nov 13, 2011 at 09:01:14 pm     #  

^ Trololololololololololol

posted by OhioKimono on Nov 13, 2011 at 09:30:28 pm     #  

^ Trololololololololololol

posted by OhioKimono on Nov 13, 2011 at 09:30:29 pm     #  

The problem with any program is that there will always be a wide range of people who qualify and those who can "beat" the system.
For instance, welfare is a decent idea. Help those who are in a place in life where they need some help to simply live. What it has turned into is generations of welfare supported people. Also, I've seen people in line at krogers with a wad, yes a huge wad of cash using food stamps. I've also seen many people with cell phones, designer clothes and really nice cars at the welfare office. These are not the people welfare was made for. Unless there is a major re-evaluation of the program, it will continue to be abused.
Unemployment is paid out to those who at least worked as far as I know, but like stated above, why work for less than you can get on unemployment?

Lastly, some people doing the hiring in these companies aren't the most qualified. With all the variou opinions of what makes a good resume, if some yo-yo is doing the hiring and doesn't "like" your resume, you won't get a call.

posted by hockeyfan on Nov 13, 2011 at 09:30:51 pm     #   1 person liked this

In response to an earlier post, the United States has the largest percentage of fat poor people in the world, too.

posted by Wulf on Nov 13, 2011 at 09:46:30 pm     #   2 people liked this


The point of the video is that people moan and complain that they cannot find work. There IS work..people do not want to do it when they can take other people's money by way of the government.

As they guy in the video states people can't fathom that they have to show up everyday. That is the entitlement attitude that welfare has created.

Work is work and all work has dignity. An out of work MBA working three jobs to make ends meet has my respect. Like I posted earlier, I did minimum wage work with a Master's degree while working on a doctorate. I have been a university professor for almost 30 years and if I had to,I would be a greeter at Walmart and live in a cardboard box than take a cent of aid stolen from other people. The obese, tattooed, pierced welfare mama has become enslaved to a system which will ultimately destroy her and others like her.

posted by Star56 on Nov 13, 2011 at 10:41:13 pm     #   2 people liked this

Wow OhioKimono- you would think I was personally attacking you with my post. Unlike you I did not resort to name calling or insults. I said my piece and was open to hearing people's opinion. I knew what I said wasn't going to please everyone but if you look at the meaning of what I was saying you must admit there is a bit of truth to it.

I am not a callous person and if you think I am- ok.

I still think your photos are awesome (btw- that's great entrepreneurship on your part.... telling us that we can hire your services to take our portraits. You never know what could evolve from that.)

posted by MrsA on Nov 13, 2011 at 11:38:41 pm     #  

hockey makes a good point. Some of the human resources people doing the hiring these days aren't the brightest, and some of them don't have any real experience in anything. I've been interviewed twice in the last seven months by kids who were fresh out of college, had no clue how to dress or behave professionally, and didn't have sense enough to pour piss out a boot. I got the impression they were intimidated by me. I was very lucky to have found a job. If you're unemployed and over 50, you can pretty much kiss the working life goodbye.

posted by shortysmom on Nov 14, 2011 at 01:05:17 am     #  

Couple of things, no one wants to hire full time anymore. They don't want to provide benefits. Krogers and Wal-Mart would much rather hire 20 people at 30 hours per employee then 15 full time. They have very sophisticated scheduling programs that ensure that no one gets full time.

Whatís worse, they donít want you to work another job either. A long time ago I worked for Krogers. They asked when Iíd be available to work; I told them anytime, which meant 4am-noon one day and 5pm -11pm the next. After 6 months of 15-25 hours, I got a second and let Krogers know that I couldnít work nights anymore. They told me no way, because when I hire, I said I could work any time. Basically they wanted me on call and everything else worked around them. Things havenít changed.

That was a long time agoÖ now Iím in a very much white collar job making reasonable money. If I was laid off tomorrow, there is no way a Krogers or McDonalds in their right mind would hire me, they know Iíd just be biding my time till I got something back in my career field. Why would they invest any time into me.

posted by SensorG on Nov 14, 2011 at 09:34:00 am     #  

I need a qualified ROOFER. Not a handy man who does roofs. If your an out of work ROOFER, or looking for a side job let me know. Its to diagnose and repair a leak around my chimney, probably some flashing work.


posted by CynicalCounsel on Nov 14, 2011 at 09:37:36 am     #  

Worth the read. Have to say, from my perspective, it's hard not to argue that one of the key problems isn't only "unwillingness to work," but the compensation structure. Pay fairly, and maybe these jobs would be filled....

posted by luvtoledo on Nov 14, 2011 at 09:56:23 am     #  

Workwise -I think I'm the luckiest person on the planet. As I have said all over this board, probably ad nauseum to some, I retired in 2009 after 35yrs of self employment - sold the businesses. I also have a BA in finance. That same year I embarked on a new career path - horticulture, a life long passion. I'm 2/3 through the 2 yr Landscape and Turf Management Program at Owens. Part of the program is a 480 hr. summer internship. You have to find your own job. I was scared to death that I wouldn't be able to get one partly due to the down economy, the field of landscaping, because its discretionary money, and mostly because of my age - 66+. To my surprise I had five offers. Granted the money wasn't much and it was seasonal work but still I got an actual job. Better still I have an offer for a permanent position in my field when I finish school. So in post retirement I'm working a dream job. Its sometimes hard, dirty and you work outside in all conditions no matter what. (I actually LIKE that kind of work.) The pay is pretty skimpy. But I'm working.

What this says to me is that there is work if you're willning and ABLE to make some sacrifices. But those sacrifices are serious. A dip into the savings for the edcational "retraining". The really difficult part is at full time hours my job would not feed a family of four. It would just provide an economical existence for one. And of course, no one had any full time openings.

This experience has brought home to me just how awful it must be if you're unemployed and have a family to take care of or if you're a fresh college grad trying to get started. There's work yes, but it isn't work that will sustain a family or get a grad started in a new career.

posted by holland on Nov 14, 2011 at 11:29:36 am     #  

There's work yes, but it isn't work that will sustain a family or get a grad started in a new career.

I don't mention my husband's job situation on here very often, because I am fortunate enough to have a very good job that can provide the essentials for our family.

However, if we were depending on my husband to support our family, we'd be absolutely screwed.

He has experienced numerous layoffs, cutbacks, and job changes in the past few years.

Just a few years ago, he was working a desk job in his career field for $22/hour + overtime. That job went away, and there were very few openings in his field.

His next job was doing 3rd shift manual labor in a factory for $11/hour. (There were no jobs available in his field, so manual labor was the only thing he could find.) He was in his 30s with some back and knee issues when he started - the backbreaking physical labor coupled with the adjustment to 3rd shift lifestyle made him noticeably deteriorate in the 3 years he worked there.

In a way, it was both a blessing and a curse when he lost that job. At least he wasn't constantly in pain and sleep deprived anymore.

He has been working in his field again for a few months now as a contract/temporary employee. It isn't full time, and he's being paid half what he used to be to do the same type of work. The job will probably go away after the first of the year. But, at least he's working and at least he's back doing something relevant to his past work experience.

Taking that factory job really hurt his job opportunities in his field - it was hard to be taken seriously on interviews, when the most recent job on his resume was working manual labor. The idea that most employers will respect someone who was willing to do whatever it took to keep working is a crock.

We're grateful that he's working this current job, even if it isn't long-term, because at least he'll have that recent experience in his field to list on his resume.

We're lucky that I have a well-paying, stable job that can support our family's main needs. That's why I don't really share all the details of my husband's job situation here on TT very often, because I don't want to sound like a whiner. We definitely count our blessings for what we have, and know that in the grand scheme of things we're still pretty fortunate.

However, there are a lot of people in my husband's shoes who don't have a breadwinning spouse. He has the "luxury" of being able to work part time, odd jobs, or contract positions. But, as holland said, that's not enough to sustain a family.

posted by mom2 on Nov 14, 2011 at 12:13:32 pm     #   3 people liked this

luvtoledo - great article. Market forces will win out. Looks like in Georgia the days of paying crappy wages for even crappier work may be over.

I have other comments but they would relegate this topic to the politics page.

posted by holland on Nov 14, 2011 at 12:18:10 pm     #  


My wife got hired into Walmart back in July and has constantly been scheduled 38-40 hours. It might have to do with that she's in an actual department and not a cashier or cart person though.

posted by lfrost2125 on Nov 14, 2011 at 03:45:36 pm     #  

37-plus years at my current employer. At 58, would like to retire, collect pension, work part-time elsewhere. My schedule/hours are the worst in all that time, mainly because of layoffs few years back that eliminated part-time people who did my job on weekends. So, would like to get out, but in this economy...?

Heart goes out to you younger folks--and my children---that have some real challenges forthcoming economically/jobwise as we head into future years. At the very least, I have a solid pension, as does my wife who has 30-plus years in education, is five years younger than me, still works. But I can already see it's a coin-flip whether my kids---and many other young people---will be able to have the same standard of living as they had growing up.

Ohiokimino and others, I hope you have better luck with job prospects going forward.

Thanksgiving, always my favorite holiday for reflection and taking stock, is almost here. I realize I have much to be thankful for, despite uncertainties and concerns.

posted by McCaskey on Nov 14, 2011 at 06:47:44 pm     #   2 people liked this

Well said McCaskey, hope you and the rest of ToledoTalk has a wonderful Thanksgiving. Just under 2 more weeks.

posted by INeedCoffee on Nov 14, 2011 at 07:20:21 pm     #  

Taking that factory job really hurt his job opportunities in his field - it was hard to be taken seriously on interviews, when the most recent job on his resume was working manual labor. The idea that most employers will respect someone who was willing to do whatever it took to keep working is a crock.

Which is a damn shame, mom2. Your husband was a man and went to work for his family...and some sniveling snob is (or several are) holding that against him? Because it was...tsk tsk...."not in his field".

Yet more evidence that the "management science" of HR is 100% bullshit bullshit bullshit. I hate 'em. I hate filling out their paperwork and I hate attending their "training seminars". I hate the hoops you have to jump through for these halfwits who use their "thrones" as sledgehammers.

How dare they look down their noses at someone earning money instead of just "going on the dole".

And if you work in HR...yes, I'm talking about you.

posted by oldhometown on Nov 14, 2011 at 08:29:48 pm     #   3 people liked this

Star56 posted at 09:41:13 PM on Nov 13, 2011:

"There IS work..people do not want to do it when they can take other people's money by way of the government...

I have been a university professor for almost 30 years..."

posted by JJFad on Nov 14, 2011 at 10:23:32 pm     #   1 person liked this

MrsA I truly wish I had to strength to give real life examples of why your ideal is false. But I'm to tired from working my ass off to write a thorough report.

Yes there are some losers who live off the system, but there are MUCH more who are trying to make ends meet. So while there might be just a slimmer of honesty in your post. In the real world, the world isn't so black and white. I have "bought a rake" and worked side jobs just to make ends meet, but it doesn't improve the general situation many of us Americans are in.

posted by INeedCoffee on Nov 14, 2011 at 11:24:46 pm     #   3 people liked this

Private University :)

posted by Star56 on Nov 15, 2011 at 04:12:31 am     #

Hey MrsA, how about telling Bill Bostleman there's no recession and then see what size boot winds up in your ass. Have a great day!

posted by HickoryG on Nov 15, 2011 at 10:30:08 am     #  

I'm sure those 23 people without jobs will just grab rakes to make ends meet...

posted by SensorG on Nov 15, 2011 at 10:42:36 am     #  

Not to mention the hundreds of sub-contractors who will not be bidding Bostleman's business in the future. All these folks are going to buy rakes too. I see a huge rake shortage in the future.

posted by HickoryG on Nov 15, 2011 at 11:04:34 am     #  

I work for one of those "the hundreds of sub-contractors"... :(

Lots of GC's screw subs but Bill Bostleman ran a quality organization.

posted by dbw8906 on Nov 15, 2011 at 11:11:19 am     #  

Did ya buy a rake yet dbw?

posted by HickoryG on Nov 15, 2011 at 11:39:53 am     #  

From OldHomeTown: How dare they look down their noses at someone earning money instead of just "going on the dole".

Give that man a beer and a shot from the top shelf. I've run across one (1) HR person who correctly guessed at the empty spaces in my work history - no jobs available, right? Right.

I'm not quite sure what the common denominator is, but invariably HR people tend to be every bit as arrogant as they are ignorant. I suppose it must be a prerequisite for getting the position.

posted by madjack on Nov 15, 2011 at 11:44:50 am     #   1 person liked this

There may not be a recession in Ottawa Hills or Sylvania, but if you ask anyone in Toledo, Cleveland, Youngstown, Detroit, Flint, Saginaw, Lansing, Fort Wayne, Muskegon, or South Bend they may disagree with you.

posted by milesdriven on Nov 15, 2011 at 11:55:05 am     #   2 people liked this

I saw rakes for sale yesterday. Cost $7, so the greatest depression has dropped the price of rakes from $18 to $7. Get one while they last.

posted by 6th_Floor on Nov 15, 2011 at 01:07:03 pm     #   1 person liked this

Did someone above actually insinuate that a private university doesn't use government money?

posted by mom2 on Nov 15, 2011 at 02:23:31 pm     #  

There doesn't appear to be a recession for Toledo's ex-police chief Mike Navarre.It did not take him long to double dip.He is receiving a $658,000 lump sum plus a $65,000 a year pension and a salary of $85,000 a year for the Oregon,Ohio police Chiefs job.There is also a severence package of a yet to be disclosed amount of money on top of everything else he gets.How can this be justified when the Mayor is telling us the city is broke.

posted by buckeye278 on Nov 15, 2011 at 03:11:55 pm     #   2 people liked this

"severance package" - He quite and wasn't fired.

As for "double dipping" it's his pension. If I decide to go back to work after I retire, it's not anyoneís business.

posted by SensorG on Nov 15, 2011 at 03:59:29 pm     #  

Navarre already earned the pension. His current pay is for the work he will be doing in Oregon. If you think we will be making progress by passing laws that restrict people from working jobs they are good at, you really need to evaluate your thinking.

posted by brainswell on Nov 15, 2011 at 04:14:32 pm     #  

"Did someone above actually insinuate that a private university doesn't use government money"

You do know that there is a nationally recognized university located a short drive away that is famous for not taking a cent of government money. Not even student loan money.

Some people actually live independent of big brother.

posted by Star56 on Nov 15, 2011 at 04:28:20 pm     #  

I'm familiar with Hillsdale College.

However, the vast majority of private colleges do accept goverment funding to at least some degree. (Research grants, student loans, etc.)

posted by mom2 on Nov 15, 2011 at 04:39:42 pm     #  

Star56, wasn't that college where itís President had a 19 year long affair with his daughter-in-law who he also employed the college? A scandal that came to light after she killed herself on campus?

Sounds like a great place to workÖ

posted by SensorG on Nov 15, 2011 at 04:45:23 pm     #   1 person liked this

You're on the money, Sensor. NBC's Law and Order SVU did an episode several years ago based on the Hillsdale College scandal.

posted by shortysmom on Nov 16, 2011 at 01:38:14 am     #  

All Navarre has done is take a job that someone else could be doing. People in Ohio have decided that public employees are entitled to be highly paid, receive higher benefits and pensions than most other citizens. It doesn't seem to matter how many others are unemployed. It doesn't change my life much regardless how many double or triple dip as Navarre is doing.

However, I do find it ironic that many people who are unemployed and complaining about the lousy job market, also approve what's happening with public sector employees like Navarre, being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to double and now triple dip.

posted by 6th_Floor on Nov 16, 2011 at 04:35:37 am     #   1 person liked this

This just in ... 1000 new jobs at the Jeep plant, a second shift and expectations for more jobs at the suppliers. Put away the rakes and go back to work, everyone! :-)

posted by viola on Nov 17, 2011 at 12:21:15 am     #   1 person liked this

Serious? Perhaps I'll apply. To be honest I'm getting tired being an IT grunt. My gf's uncle took the bale out 2 years ago. Guy was making over 100k yr, and was paid over that just to quit.

I'm not being political but serious, that is over 2x my pay for a hell of a lot less stress.

posted by INeedCoffee on Nov 17, 2011 at 01:49:33 am     #  

Plus I love Jeeps, loved them even before I moved to Ohio. So perhaps at least I could good about myself knowing I made a good product. You can't put a pricetag on knowing you're being useful.

posted by INeedCoffee on Nov 17, 2011 at 01:50:40 am     #  

Side note:

Granted I voted against a casino, but people need to eat.
If they offer even normal base pay for what I can do I'd be willing to jump ship since it would be significantly more. So much for morals.

Network Administrator, AS400 Admin, IT Supervisor lol nice :) queuing incoming resume in 3...2...1..

posted by INeedCoffee on Nov 17, 2011 at 01:54:54 am     #  

INC, i sent you a message.

posted by tm2 on Nov 17, 2011 at 09:04:18 am     #   1 person liked this

im actually starting to go around to area homes and ask if i can take any pop cans out of their recycling bins to make extra money. I will be going around the city of sylvania next week. I hate when ppl tell me they dont have any or dont drink from a can, then i go around to their bins and what do u know, cans galore.

posted by IamNORMAL on Nov 18, 2011 at 12:56:47 am     #  


posted by dbw8906 on Nov 18, 2011 at 08:15:40 am     #