Toledo Talk

TPD wants more cameras

I'm kinda surprized there were no comments on the TPD wanting more cameras. Personally, I don't think it will make much difference. Thugs are thugs.

created by rch101 on Feb 11, 2012 at 10:44:38 am     Politics     Comments: 52

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Going to spend millions with a company from Memphis...I have researched the equipment, but wonder if Toledo has anybody smart enought to use it

posted by Hoops on Feb 11, 2012 at 11:01:27 am     #  

150 cameras for $1.6 million comes out to over $10,000 per camera. I suppose that includes all the monitors and cabling, too, but it still seems like a lot of money per unit. Who is going to watch all those monitors? Maybe they could just put the feed up on the internet and let insomniacs watch the city. That would save on money and give the night-owls and voyeurs something to do!

A better idea is to mount a camera in the offices of elected officials so we could watch what they're up to.

posted by pete on Feb 11, 2012 at 11:20:00 am     #   4 people liked this

Hoops, I had a discussion with chief diggs about that, and I got the impression he was putting together a new team of new people for this... Not just shuffling people around. I'm looking forward to seeing what affect this has on high crime areas! It was going to happen someday, one way or another. I just pray it helps!

posted by upso on Feb 11, 2012 at 11:24:04 am     #   1 person liked this

Welcome to the surveillance society, citizen. 1984 was a warning, not a fucking instruction manual. Do you think they'll come with facial and license plate recognition too?

posted by anonymouscoward on Feb 11, 2012 at 12:19:56 pm     #   3 people liked this

>>


Even if this is a doctored photo, it's still ironically humorous.

posted by jr on Feb 11, 2012 at 12:54:29 pm     #  

Yes anonymous, they have those recognition capabilities.

I think all cameras should be within a 3 mile radius of Dorr and Detroit.

posted by OmarLittle on Feb 11, 2012 at 01:04:22 pm     #  

they should let the thugs and gangsters stay in their area. I don't want the cameras chasing them away and into my neighborhood.

posted by steve155 on Feb 11, 2012 at 01:24:06 pm     #  

I had a lot longer post but lost it.

So bottom line is who gets cameras? Point Place or Dorr and Detroit. Does TPD know this will prevent crime?

posted by rch101 on Feb 11, 2012 at 06:52:15 pm     #  

Maybe they can now hand out more tickets for jay walking.Once the thugs figure out where the cameras will be,then they will just move further out into the unmonitored neighborhoods.Look out Maumee and Sylvania!Better yet,maybe they will just shoot out the cameras.

posted by buckeye278 on Feb 11, 2012 at 06:54:42 pm     #  

"A better idea is to mount a camera in the offices of elected officials so we could watch what they're up to."

You would do better putting cameras at all the golf courses if you want to find those workers.LOL!

posted by buckeye278 on Feb 11, 2012 at 06:57:34 pm     #  

I don't know how much good cameras and videos will do.

After I had about $300 worth of stuff stolen on 2 different days, from a locked location I leased from the city, I set up video cameras. I got city workers screwing off and sleeping on the job instead of working and stealing some additional items. So, I thought the best thing to do would be to send a copy of it to the mayor's office. Apparently not. Haven't heard one word about it yet. Guess the next step is filing a police report.

posted by hockeyfan on Feb 11, 2012 at 07:30:45 pm     #  

Department officials estimated the cost of the camera system at $1.6 million up from the $812,000 to $1.2 million outlined in the announcement late last year. At the time, the department said the money would come from its Law Enforcement Trust Fund, which is made up of revenue seized during investigations and from auto auctions.

About half the projected expenditure would come from this fund. However, Deputy Mayor Steve Herwat told council during a hearing Friday the department will seek about $700,000 from the city's capital improvements fund.

OK - DOES EVERYONE UNDERSTAND NOW? IT'S A MONEY GRAB. THEY TAKE AWAY MONEY THAT SHOULD GO TO STREET REPAIR AND BACKDOOR MONEY INTO THE POLICE DETAIL. THIS IS NOT A ONE TIME EXPENSE - YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT ALWAYS HAVING TO HAVE PEOPLE HIRED TO MONITOR, REPAIR RESPOND TO THE SYSTEM AND IT WILL NOT BE PAID FOR EVER BY MONEY SEIZED DURING INVESTIGATIONS FROM AUTO AUCTIONS - EVER!

posted by Danneskjold on Feb 11, 2012 at 08:17:28 pm     #   1 person liked this

It's the same snake oil salespitch as the motorcycle cops. Sure, there is a grant/federal money to get it started, but in the long run, it is a huge expense in maintenance and for what efficiency?
It seems that there are a few good defenses to get out of the red light camera tickets, so what makes these cameras any better? I mean how good are they going to be able to view/capture a picture of a hooded thug running down a street?

posted by hockeyfan on Feb 11, 2012 at 08:21:38 pm     #  

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

--Benjamin Franklin, 1755

Eh, what the hell....just more of the same in the name of "safety". A government agent can juggle your balls at the airport to determine if they might explode and the IRS soon will be penalizing you if you don't buy health insurance...why not add a few cameras? Maybe one looking into your windows to make sure you don't have a meth lab or (in Toledo) cars parked on your own lawn...

whatever...

posted by oldhometown on Feb 11, 2012 at 09:33:36 pm     #  

OK; Where do they locate the cameras? Hi crime or to assure the safety of the more affluant? Does anyone really believe these will help? Also, from what I know of these devices, they wear out and the techknowledgy changes fast. What's the cost of upgrading every 4-5 years?

posted by rch101 on Feb 12, 2012 at 12:00:28 am     #  

Just install blue street lights, those have helped to reduce crime in high crime areas of Glascow, Scotland. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008494010_bluelight11.html

posted by savah1128 on Feb 12, 2012 at 10:38:34 am     #  

WAR IS PEACE

FREEDOM IS SLAVERY

IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

posted by 6th_Floor on Feb 12, 2012 at 02:20:49 pm     #  

A few years back Tecumseh Street was reported as having the highest crime rate in town. But this street is almost two miles long. How many cameras would be needed to do effective surveillance?

posted by flinty on Feb 12, 2012 at 02:39:18 pm     #  

The cameras really helped last year in London and other UK cities, eh?

posted by 6th_Floor on Feb 12, 2012 at 02:59:29 pm     #   2 people liked this

The chocolate ration is being increased this week.

posted by anonymouscoward on Feb 12, 2012 at 07:06:29 pm     #   1 person liked this

OmarL, why Dorr & Detroit? If current trends remain, in a decade deer will outnumber functional buildings and humans in that area.

posted by 6th_Floor on Feb 13, 2012 at 01:05:30 am     #  

I'm with danneskjold on this. Simply amazes me that so many are so willing to go along with whatever the collective of morons at One Gum't Center dole out week after week.

Stop spending $$ on everything the city has no business being involved in and perhaps, just maybe we'd actually have the $$ for proper police staffing.

And this constant robbing of the CPI - again, no one seems to care. And most of those who do actually voice any concern - however meager it is - will vote the same group of inept idiots right back into office when they next have the chance.

Toledo deserves exactly what it gets.

posted by Foodie on Feb 13, 2012 at 01:22:17 pm     #  

Vote against the 3/4% income tax and the police chief, Bell, and Herwat will have more important things to worry about than having cameras across the city.

posted by 6th_Floor on Feb 13, 2012 at 03:05:57 pm     #  

I intend to - if for no other reason than to send those ying-yangs a message to stop pi$$ing away taxpayer dollars. Let them sweat it out (if defeated) between March and when they put it back on the ballot in November.

posted by Foodie on Feb 13, 2012 at 04:31:44 pm     #  

They will COSI it until it gets passed.

posted by Linecrosser on Feb 13, 2012 at 07:56:47 pm     #   2 people liked this

And now we're going to pull another $850 grand from the CPI for a Maritime Museum? Seriously?

Why? So it can become another Erie Street Market boondoggle? After all, the Boyer gets a whopping 6,000 visitors a year (or so they say) and a new museum is expected to draw 41,000 visitors/year at $8 to $16 a head. Does anyone really believe that will happen? This council and administration continue to spend $$ we don't have for frivolous things while our roads and infrastructure continue to deteriorate - and no one seems to care.

As Jack Nicholson playing the Joker in one of the Batman movies stated so eloquently:

"This town needs an enema!"

posted by Foodie on Feb 14, 2012 at 09:47:01 am     #  

I'm fine with the Maritime Museum funding. We have a fabulous riverfront with really nothing very much to do. One of the best days I had in town last summer was the ceremony at the Boyer, with all the steamwhistles, the historic sailing craft, and the crowds.

The museum already existed -- we managed to get it moved here from another town. It will be a great combination of activities. With the bike paths under the new bridge, great restaurants downtown, and some historic/interesting activities, I look forward to spending a few sunny Saturdays in that area.

If I could only eat at Grumpy's ...

posted by viola on Feb 14, 2012 at 10:44:05 am     #  

you get enough people downtown, and we'll do saturdays. ;)

posted by upso on Feb 14, 2012 at 10:59:47 am     #  

I will try my best. Would you consider being open for brunch/lunch for the spring opening of the farmer's market? I know they're open year-round, but there are a few spring Saturdays that draw a lot more people. Since those are scheduled in advance, there would be time to get the word out.

posted by viola on Feb 14, 2012 at 11:07:18 am     #  

"I'm fine with the Maritime Museum funding"

So you're fine with spending $$ we don't have?

"The museum already existed -- we managed to get it moved here from another town"

And do you know why it's leaving Vermillion?

Attendance - lack thereof. What makes anyone think it will be better here? I agree that our waterfront needs far more activity than it currently sees but it will take something of more interest than a Maritime museum to get people downtown.

Most importantly, we don't have the $$. We're again robbing from the CPI to fund this folly and ignoring our infrastructure.

But, it appears that Toledoans don't really get their bloomers in a wad over the deplorable condition of our roads. If they did, we'd be demanding they be repaired first before we even consider the funds for other purposes.

posted by Foodie on Feb 14, 2012 at 11:32:22 am     #   3 people liked this

Viola, yes we will consider it. We did it last year a d had great success. Actually it was so busy we ran out of food! :)

posted by upso on Feb 14, 2012 at 02:14:55 pm     #  

Great! I will get there early and bring my spouse. We WILL pay full price :-)

posted by viola on Feb 14, 2012 at 03:23:00 pm     #  

upso, you know where I stand on this. Anytime you're contemplating doing a Saturday, just put a notice on here. I have about half a dozen friends who have asked about Grumpy's, and I'm sure I'd be able to have most of them there with me on any given Saturday. (good thing it wasn't a Sunday being discussed, or I might have had to pay royalties!)

And really, with the support and enthusiasm people here regularly show for various businesses and endeavors that get discussed in the Toledo area, I don't see why we couldn't do that in any number of ways. Turn this into a "Success Support Group" and help people who are trying to make things better in Toledo.

Alright, I'll just get off the soap box and end that there... should probably get back to doing the work I'm actually getting paid to do right now.

posted by Johio83 on Feb 14, 2012 at 03:43:53 pm     #  

Picked up three garbage salads today from Grumpy's for my office staff. They now call me HERO.

posted by Hoops on Feb 14, 2012 at 03:49:57 pm     #  

According to the head of the Great Lakes Historical Society yesterday at council....."we draw an average of 6,000 people a year, not enough to cover our electric bill". He expects that by moving the museum here the attendance will be "41,000" per year. The Boyer/Schoonmaker drew average 6,000 the last year it was open to the public. 6 plus 6 equals 12, where are the other 29,000 visitors interested in maritime history going to come from? I'm anxious to see the answers. Also, by show of hands, how many of you have visited the Vermillion Inland Seas Museum?

posted by fred on Feb 14, 2012 at 05:58:32 pm     #  

As far as the cameras go check out this story from Memphis the city Toledo is using as an example of how crime stats drop once cameras are installed....http://www.wmctv.com/story/16771605/memphis-city-council-asks-questions-about-mpd-memos

posted by fred on Feb 14, 2012 at 06:00:18 pm     #  

Well while I have no idea how they came up with their estimates, I will at least say that it's reasonable to expect the 6,000 they got to go up, considering they're transposing those numbers from a city of 10,000 to a city of 300,000

posted by Johio83 on Feb 14, 2012 at 06:09:49 pm     #  

Well you see, who the hell would go to Vermillion for a museum? OTOH one can go to Toledo and do the TMA, zoo, and whatever they call the former COSI now... so hell just add the boat museum in and that'd be an 8 hour day for some.

posted by anonymouscoward on Feb 14, 2012 at 06:59:34 pm     #  

Vermilion is in between Sandusky and Cleveland. So it was convenient enough that it could have been part of a family's vacation to Cedar Point and/or Cleveland's attractions. Looks like not many people had that thought so who knows if anybody is going to have that thought when it comes to Toledo?

posted by dell_diva on Feb 14, 2012 at 07:11:59 pm     #  

I'm willing to bet most people outside of Vermillion ever new it existed in the first place.

posted by Johio83 on Feb 14, 2012 at 07:48:07 pm     #   1 person liked this

*never knew

Long day, time to get a drink...

posted by Johio83 on Feb 14, 2012 at 07:49:06 pm     #  

@Johio83- that seems logical until you find out that Detroit with a population of 713777 is only able to draw 7,000 visitors per year to the Dossin Great Lakes Museum on Belle Isle and they only charge $3.50

posted by fred on Feb 14, 2012 at 08:29:06 pm     #  

I just don't see people adding the maritime museum to their list of places to visit in this area.
I do not see how taking money from an already strapped budget is gonna payoff in the long run.
This sounds more like a "back room deal" that someone promised someone else for some kind of favor.
I wonder if this was originally part of the water front park improvements that were shot down?
I think we need to start pushing the idea to move the boyer and fill it with little shops and restaurants. Heck, since we're spending money we don't have, let's build another casino on it.

posted by hockeyfan on Feb 15, 2012 at 01:05:18 am     #  

Well, since we're way off the original topic now...

The last time I was on the Boyer (or whatever its name reverted to last year) was in the 1980's when my aunt took me for something do do on a day after school. It's so "magical and wonderful" that not only have I never been back, I've never had the inkling to take anyone else there either (unlike the zoo, Art Museum, Mud Hens, etc.). Hell, even going to the old Sports Arena to go to Storm games or the Docks, I never said to anyone "let's stop by the big boat...it's really cool!"...and they never said anything to me about wanting to go.

I don't get who thinks this is an "attraction". It's a lake freighter...a rather ordinary one. It's got a few decks and a really big storage area. The history (and I am a history buff) is not terribly exciting. It's like if someone opened up a garbage truck museum or bulldozer museum...yeah, it's a unique thing, but who cares? I see garbage trucks and dump trucks all the time....and if I look out at the Port of Toledo--ding!--lake freighters.

If you want an attraction, raise the Edmund Fitzgerald from the bottom of Lake Superior and put it somewhere. The Boyer isn't the Queen Mary in Long Beach Harbor...it's just not and we should stop pretending it is an "attraction".

As for another "maritime museum"....yawn. Belongs in a library somewhere for free because there ain't no way 41,000 people are going to come streaming in per year at $7 a head to look at old river maps and boat rudders...

As for small museums in this town, anyone remember the Ohio Baseball Hall of Fame at Skeldon Stadium. Went to that a couple times...and was usually the only person in the joint. BTW, the guy who ran that was a real sleazebag who sold off personal items loaned to the museum to pad his retirement.

posted by oldhometown on Feb 15, 2012 at 12:20:00 pm     #  

Convert it into a floating casino with day trips to Canada.

posted by Linecrosser on Feb 15, 2012 at 12:21:37 pm     #  

OHT: You are exactly right. I've lived here for 30+ years and have never had the desire to board the Boyer for a look-see. And, at a "reported" head count of 6,000 visitors last year, apparently not many others have the itch either.

A Maritime Museum is an idiotic use of public $$ - especially when the city is deeply in debt and we can't even take care of our basic needs - you know, the things the city charter says the city has to do.

But keep sending the morons currently on city council back there time and again and you'll continue to get more of the same. I have to believe Toledoans are largely happy with the way the city and county have pi$$ed away our tax dollars and allowed the area to slip so far into decay - they prove it every election.

posted by Foodie on Feb 15, 2012 at 01:56:48 pm     #  

Foodie too much union money floating about to suppress the truth of the matters.

Union money is as deadly as Mega Corp X money.

posted by dbw8906 on Feb 15, 2012 at 02:28:14 pm     #  

is AS deadly? Mega Corp X at least has to follow monopoly and antitrust laws...

I don't usually enter into the political banter, because message boards are just a dumb place to get into arguments of ideology, but I would be 100% okay with unions if they had to compete with each other. If an employer could say "well, Union A has had huge wage increases, and they keep forcing me to rehire those three deadbeats who were violating policies, so we're going to give Union B the bid this year."

posted by Johio83 on Feb 15, 2012 at 02:58:20 pm     #   1 person liked this

Better yet, give the employee the choice of whether or not they wish to belong to a union as opposed to being forced to join one.

Though I give you major kudos for creative thinking Johio. As plan B, I like your idea.

posted by Foodie on Feb 15, 2012 at 05:39:06 pm     #  

Syme? Syme no longer exists.

posted by Wulf on Feb 15, 2012 at 06:12:19 pm     #  

Haha, you're right, better just move the conversation along... So anyway, the system sure does work well, doesn't it?

posted by Johio83 on Feb 15, 2012 at 06:16:42 pm     #  

Regarding moving the maritime museum here from Vermillion: I'm pretty sure the sequence of events was this:

City paid to build the marina

Great Lakes cruises and ferries to The Islands never materialized

Port Authority (?) then recruited the museum as a way to have a rent-paying tenant fill the space the city had built.

I'm drawing on memories of articles in the Blade, so I may be wrong about a few details.

Regarding Vermillion, I have gone there (on business) and had trouble finding an interesting place to eat -- or anything else to do on a day trip. Many businesses there are seasonal. History buffs will have a better overall experience here ... they can eat downtown and also see the zoo, art museum, etc.

Regarding the Boyer: I have visited 3 times (in 10 years) and I plan to go back every few years to see the changes. It is the only ship afloat that was built in the era of Titanic. I think locating next to a museum building, rather than being marooned on the far side of International Park, will give them a boost in visitors, volunteers, possibility of a gift shop, rentals, etc.

Now, to wildly pull ideas of out thin air: we should have a museum of rust belt industrial activity somewhere around the riverfront. The Toledo Designs exhibit at the art museum contained autos, Toledo scales, old machine tools, toys. The crowds who showed up for that loved everything ... and they were not the usual "high art" patrons; rather, they were working folks who remembered what their parents used to do for a living.

posted by viola on Feb 15, 2012 at 06:54:22 pm     #