Toledo Talk

Phil Copeland for Recorder?

I've been seeing these signs for a while now. Is this the same person that the IRS and the US Dept. of Labor was/is investigating? Connected some way to the "lap dance luxury" story the Blade broke a few years ago, as I remember. Does anyone know what the job description of "Lucas County Recorder" actually consists of? Does it involve any work?

created by Wulf on Feb 14, 2012 at 04:33:28 pm     Local-Politics     Comments: 59

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Comments ... #

Career politicians playing musical chairs in Toledo/Lucas County is one of the main reasons the area has lagged in redevelopment and growth. Why people keep re-electing the same idiots who have screwed the system up for decades to different jobs is beyond me.

posted by JustaSooner on Feb 14, 2012 at 04:38:44 pm     #  

And I guarantee he'll be elected to the position - qualified or unqualified (I'd bet $$$ on the latter). Why? Well, that's just the way things work here in Tole-duh.

posted by Foodie on Feb 14, 2012 at 08:32:36 pm     #  

One Government Center #700
640 Jackson Street
Toledo, OH 43604

Ph: 419-213-4400
Fx: 419-213-4284

Contact Us
Responsibilities of the County Recorder
The Recorder's primary responsibilities include:
Indexing
Maintaining land records and other miscellaneous documents
Recording

Documents and Land Records
Deeds
Leases
Liens
Military discharges
Mortgages
Power of attorneys
Release and assignment of mortgages
Surety bonds
Uniform commercial code filings (UCC's)

posted by bphtol1 on Feb 15, 2012 at 08:05:24 am     #  

This sounds like clerical work to me. Why is this an elected position? Just more bureaucracy and and all the overhead that goes with it. Seems that this could be incorporated into some other department.

posted by bphtol1 on Feb 15, 2012 at 08:09:32 am     #  

Isn't this the same thing the county clerk or clerk of courts does?

posted by Linecrosser on Feb 15, 2012 at 09:40:47 am     #  

Is there any sort of educational requirement for this position? Is there an account for "casual expenses", or a county vehicle provided?

posted by Wulf on Feb 15, 2012 at 12:26:32 pm     #  

Is there any sort of educational requirement for this position?

I'd guess not. Copeland is a high school graduate with his only higher education being a construction training apprenticeship program.

http://toledo.oh.gov/ToledoCityCouncil/CityCouncilMembers/PhillipCopeland/tabid/224/Default.aspx

Phil was born, raised, and educated in Toledo. His educational and professional training was from Gunckel Elementary, Robinson Jr. High, Scott High School and Drexel J. Thrash Training Center for Ohio Laborers.

posted by oldhometown on Feb 15, 2012 at 12:38:41 pm     #  

no... you won't find any of us lefties jumping in to try to rationalize why phil would be a good candidate. he is an example of the excesses of my party... sorry toledo

posted by enjoyeverysandwich on Feb 15, 2012 at 01:40:14 pm     #  

There is an alternative. . .Kevin R. Eff is a young attorney, who is also running for Recorder. He is a graduate of UT Law School. I have worked with him on a local grassroots citizens campaign, and would certainly recommend him for your consideration. A candidates forum for Recorder is being held Feb. 27
at the West Toledo Library. That would be a good opportunity for citizens to meet the candidates, hear what they have to say and make a more educated choice when we vote.

posted by CatLady on Feb 15, 2012 at 02:15:58 pm     #  

But, there isn't a word about graduating from any of these schools, just being trained in them. That's a big difference, isn't it?

posted by Wulf on Feb 15, 2012 at 02:20:50 pm     #  

CatLady, I wasn't referring to Kevin Eff, BTW.

posted by Wulf on Feb 15, 2012 at 02:22:40 pm     #  

Wulf, thanks for clarifying. CatLady

posted by CatLady on Feb 15, 2012 at 02:38:28 pm     #  

Being the county Recorder would be the best job in the world. No one knows what the Recorder does and no one is ever mad at the Recorder. What the office does isn't rocket science: they simply image and index documents. The Recorder's only real responsibility is to manage the staff and since there are only around 12 or 14 employees, this is a part time job at best. I guarantee neither Copeland or Seaman know anything about recording requirements for documents, or even how much it costs to record something ($28 for first two pages, $8 per page after).

posted by Ace_Face on Feb 15, 2012 at 03:25:50 pm     #  

So, can someone be the Recorder, and maintain a seat on city council, and have yet a third job?

posted by Wulf on Feb 15, 2012 at 04:27:13 pm     #  

I believe Copeland is term limited on council. So, in typical Lucas County fashion, musical chairs begins anew for him.

posted by Foodie on Feb 15, 2012 at 04:35:55 pm     #  

Is there a separate term limit, one for "at large" members, and one for district members?

posted by Wulf on Feb 15, 2012 at 04:58:12 pm     #  

Ya know Wulf, I'm not sure about that. I know that a couple of council people were allowed to run again on that technicality some years ago but I think we the voters put a stop to such nonsense a while back. I might not be rembering that correctly.

posted by Foodie on Feb 15, 2012 at 05:35:48 pm     #  

I seem to remember two people ran for each others' slot a while back, too. Or maybe it had something to do with one of Fords' appointments?

posted by Wulf on Feb 15, 2012 at 06:25:36 pm     #  

...there isn't a word about [Copeland] graduating from any of these schools, just being trained in them. That's a big difference, isn't it?

I think we can be reasonably assured that he has graduated from Gunckel Elementary, Robinson Jr. High, and Scott High School. I don't know if you "graduate" from Drexel or just go on to a job site, so "training" seems more approrpriate.

Poor choice of words on his bio, though...

I guarantee neither Copeland or Seaman know anything about recording requirements for documents, or even how much it costs to record something ($28 for first two pages, $8 per page after)

Let's test it. Make it the first question from the audience at that candidates forum on Feb 27th at West Toledo Library.

posted by oldhometown on Feb 15, 2012 at 08:43:17 pm     #  

Has he learned how to read yet?

posted by slowsol on Feb 15, 2012 at 09:06:17 pm     #  

Has he learned how to read yet?

Unfortunately, that is an entirely different question than did he graduate.

You'd think the two would go hand in hand, but sadly in this day and age we live in... :)

posted by oldhometown on Feb 15, 2012 at 09:12:13 pm     #  

Let's test it. Make it the first question from the audience at that candidates forum on Feb 27th at West Toledo Library.

I would love to do that.

Can someone tell me a little more about Copeland? I know that his father or uncle was named Bill Copeland and was a political wheeler dealer. What did Phil do for a living before he got on the public teat?

posted by Ace_Face on Feb 17, 2012 at 10:19:30 pm     #  

Labor organizer at Local 500, I think. Google him, for a good read.

posted by Wulf on Feb 19, 2012 at 10:44:09 pm     #  

I read the Blade article this morning and am disgusted by the antics of the local Democratic Party.

http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2012/12/14/Copeland-says-he-plans-to-retire-as-local-union-manager-soon-after-taking-county-recorder-job.html

Look at the swapping and switching of positions, keeping favoritism and patronage alive and well. Is JFo's daughter, or, for that matter, any of the job switchers actually qualified for the new position they will soon have? No, they are not.

Copeland asserts that he will retire from the union job in a "couple or few months", but that assertion isn't worth 2 shits. We all know how he under performed as a City Councilman, there is no reason to think that he will be more dedicated to this part time position with the county. I'll wager that he is angling to keep both positions long-term. He's got a history of doing that, there is no indication that he has changed.

Why would any one take a $50,000 cut in annual income? Are the benefits that better with the County job? I remember seeing the Cadillac he was driving in the paper during one of his many scandals / run-ins with IRS. Will he get one from the County too?

http://www.toledoblade.com/frontpage/2006/03/12/Feds-probe-union-led-by-councilman.html

The first thing he did was hire JFo's daughter as an assistant at 60K a year. Does a part time position warrant an assistant? I wonder is the assistant position is full time ? ?

What a bunch of horseshit. How could anyone involved not be embarrassed by the situation? What gall they all have to be so self serving.

posted by jimavolt on Dec 14, 2012 at 08:09:34 am     #  

Copeland is a slow growing cancer on the local democratic party, a cancer on the taxpayers and a cancer on the union. He deserves none of the support he has. I'm told by union members that if they don't actively show support their jobs are put in jeopardy. The voters who put him in office should be ashamed. I'm generally neutral about unions but in this particular case they do not get my support.

posted by holland on Dec 14, 2012 at 08:49:03 pm     #   1 person liked this

"The voters who put him in office should be ashamed"

I felt the Earth tremble and wondered why. Now I know - something you and I can agree on.

Copeland's election was a classic example of what's wrong with the electorate in this county. A non-qualified, practically illiterate stooge gets elected to a position he isn't remotely qualified for simply becuse he has a "D" next to his name.

posted by Foodie on Dec 15, 2012 at 06:38:07 am     #  

As pointed out by jimavolt, Copeland said he was going to retire from his union job in a "few months". Well, today I saw a half page in the trades newspaper urging members to re-elect him as business manager to the Laborer's Union. Shouldn't the Blade follow up with him to ask for comment?

posted by Ace_Face on Apr 16, 2013 at 10:36:11 am     #  

Ace_Face posted at 11:36:11 AM on Apr 16, 2013:

As pointed out by jimavolt, Copeland said he was going to retire from his union job in a "few months". Well, today I saw a half page in the trades newspaper urging members to re-elect him as business manager to the Laborer's Union. Shouldn't the Blade follow up with him to ask for comment?

Business as usual. Local Toledo legacy politician. Deals that may be legal, but smell. Goes back on his word. Yep, business as usual.

I'm out of outrage today. Check back tomorrow.

posted by oldhometown on Apr 16, 2013 at 10:57:00 am     #  

Why would he retire? He said himself that the recorder job wasn't full time (although it pays full time).

posted by Spaceace on Apr 16, 2013 at 11:14:04 am     #  

Why would he retire? Because he said he would. I don't have anything against him holding both jobs, but he should at least be honest about it.

posted by Ace_Face on Apr 16, 2013 at 12:56:24 pm     #  

Tom Troy has a blog post about it.
http://www.toledoblade.com/politics-blade-slices/

posted by Nolan_Rosenkrans on Apr 16, 2013 at 01:05:52 pm     #  

It should probably be in the paper rather than some blog that no one reads, because he owes everyone an explanation:

“I just haven’t come up with a date yet and I have some things I have to wrap up,” he said. “I don’t have a date when I am going to retire. It might be a couple or few months after I take office. The recorder’s job is not full time but I am going to make it full time and I am going to be there everyday.”

As a taxpayer, I am wondering why we pay him for a full time job if he doesn't work it full time. If I was a union member, I would be extra angry that my dues are being used to pay someone $125k+/yr. to give us less than their complete attention. Because you know he isn't working full time at both jobs. Copeland is apparently as greedy as he is dumb.

posted by Ace_Face on Apr 16, 2013 at 01:46:40 pm     #  

Today's Blade has an article that embarrasses the English language when referring to Phil's quotes. This soap opera is destined to continue

posted by Hoops on Apr 18, 2013 at 07:28:25 am     #  

From today's paper:

Mr. Copeland's decision to try to retain his union job irked the union's vice president, David Fleetwood, who said it's wrong for Mr. Copeland to keep both jobs. On March 30, he informed Mr. Copeland he was going to challenge him for business manager in the upcoming union election.

Mr. Copeland promptly fired Mr. Fleetwood from his $95,000 job as business agent, which comes with a vehicle and telephone.

In a recording of the local's April 3 executive committee meeting provided to The Blade, Mr. Copeland explained to the rest of the board why he had “laid off” Mr. Fleetwood.

“He's running for business manager, and I ain't going to pay anybody to run for business manager against me, so I laid him off,” Mr. Copeland is heard saying. He told the members Mr. Fleetwood would have done the same if their roles were reversed.

Mr. Copeland, 67, confirmed Wednesday that he terminated Mr. Fleetwood as an issue of “trust and loyalty.”

“I sure did lay him off, because I couldn't trust him no more,” Mr. Copeland said.

Unbelievable.

posted by Ace_Face on Apr 18, 2013 at 07:32:54 am     #  

Did you expect him to be a man of his word?

posted by toledoramblingman on Apr 18, 2013 at 08:03:32 am     #  

No, but I did have some expectation that the person in this position would have at least a hint of literacy.

posted by Foodie on Apr 18, 2013 at 09:32:37 am     #  

I don't want to pick on the illiterate, deceitful man, but a lay-off connotes a temporary loss of work caused by a reorganization or lack of work for a person to perform. This was not a lay-off, it was a termination motivated by self-interest.

Call it what it is Copeland.

posted by jimavolt on Apr 18, 2013 at 09:42:49 am     #  

I can't read the Blades link, but is he as bad as he usually is(don't nobody got no six votes)? Doesn't the other guy have grounds for a lawsuit? Oh, my!

posted by Wulf on Apr 18, 2013 at 10:18:45 am     #  

Do the County Commissioners have any control over the recorder position? Or does the recorder position simply report to the voters?

posted by Spaceace on Apr 19, 2013 at 11:34:23 am     #  

Spaceace posted at 12:34:23 PM on Apr 19, 2013:

Do the County Commissioners have any control over the recorder position? Or does the recorder position simply report to the voters?

County commissioners control the recorder's budget, but his compensation is set by state statute. Otherwise he is answerable to the voters.

posted by MsArcher on Apr 19, 2013 at 12:07:50 pm     #  

http://www.toledoblade.com/business/2013/06/10/Copeland-ousted-as-Laborers-business-manager.html

Adios Copeland. And kudos to the union members who saw his termination of Fleetwood for what it was.

I only hope Copeland's self-serving nature is remembered the next time he runs for office to serve others.

posted by jimavolt on Jun 10, 2013 at 07:46:03 am     #   2 people liked this

AMF!!!!!!!!!!!!!

posted by Wulf on Jun 10, 2013 at 09:52:50 am     #  

So Copeland took what, a $125K hit? Ouch!

posted by Wulf on Jun 10, 2013 at 10:25:12 am     #  

Karma is a bitch.

You reap what you sew.

Do unto others what you would have done unto you.

Treat thy brother as thyself.

Etc. It's not like there's only one common knowledge phrase that conveys the same idea.

This is the type of person the voters in this town typically elect. Chew on that for a while and ask why Toledo is struggling.

Very sad.

posted by oldhometown on Jun 10, 2013 at 10:57:20 am     #  

Well, he does have that GED to fall back on.

posted by justread on Jun 10, 2013 at 11:09:31 am     #  

And his shovel. I believe he can still remain employed there, on an hourly job. Actually, being on the "operators' end" of a shovel is good exercise.

posted by Wulf on Jun 10, 2013 at 11:55:12 am     #  

I have to mention that I was in the Recorder's office the other day and could see Copeland at his desk staring straight ahead. No one else in there, just staring. Seriously. Had to be wondering how his effort to supplement that fat paycheck from Local 500 turned into a net pay cut. Classic lesson in "pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered."

posted by Ace_Face on Jun 28, 2013 at 01:04:38 pm     #  

Penny for your thoughts, Phil. :)

They gotta be worth that much, anyway.

posted by justread on Jun 28, 2013 at 01:09:27 pm     #   1 person liked this

"They gotta be worth that much, anyway."

Perhaps. I heard his last thought died of loneliness.

posted by Foodie on Jun 28, 2013 at 01:54:37 pm     #   1 person liked this

This man sat on your city council. This man had/has direct input on how the city is run.

Ponder that, my friends. And ponder his "friends" that are all over city government.

You want a "dynamic" city? Start by getting rid of "name only" legacy deadwood having control over things.

posted by oldhometown on Jun 28, 2013 at 05:34:45 pm     #   3 people liked this

Time for a courtesy flush?

posted by Linecrosser on Jun 28, 2013 at 07:10:33 pm     #  

I think that there are many "better" candidates out there that could really do a great job in politics here. The problem is that once you throw your hat into the ring, the media and other candidates start to tear you apart. Who doesn't have some skeletons in the closet? And who really wants their dirty laundry thrown all over the place in exchange for trying to make the area a better place?

posted by hockeyfan on Jun 28, 2013 at 09:44:40 pm     #   3 people liked this

I wonder how much money he lost as a result of the election(union)? I think he has the option of going back on his shovel, but the car, secretary, office and phone are gone. And rightly so.

posted by Wulf on Jul 04, 2013 at 10:06:45 am     #   1 person liked this

Wulf posted at 11:06:45 AM on Jul 04, 2013:

I wonder how much money he lost as a result of the election(union)? I think he has the option of going back on his shovel, but the car, secretary, office and phone are gone. And rightly so.

Business manager job paid $126k a year plus they paid for his Cadillac Escalade. He pulled down another $27k as a city council member. So basically he is making half what he was making last year. He should have realized that Local 500 would put up with him serving as business manager and council member at the same time because he was in a position to benefit the union on council. The Recorder can't do much for anyone except make a couple of patonage hires.

posted by Ace_Face on Jul 04, 2013 at 07:04:22 pm     #   1 person liked this

I'm going to bump this because I'm wondering if I am seeing the fall out of electing someone like Copeland to the Recorders Office.

I was trying to dig up a deed that I filed last year for a client, transferring property. I have never liked the search function at the Recorders' Office website, so I go to the Auditor's Office and AREIS. Find the property, click on transfers, see the transfer I want and click on the link that is supposed to take me to the Recorder's office system, where I can then get a copy of the deed. The link doesn't work. Takes me to a dead page, file not found.

So I try a link on an older trasnfer, that one works. I switch to a different parcel which was transferred at the same times the first one was - this time neither link work.

Very curious, I go to the search function for the Recorders Office and search by owners name. Still can't find the latest transfer, but the older one does show up in their records.

I am POSITIVE that I received the recorded, file stamped originals back from the Recorders Office when I filed them last year, and the auditor's office has the transfer. So why isn't it showing up on the Recorders' records?

posted by MsArcher on Mar 22, 2017 at 02:46:35 pm     #  

The Recorder moved to a new system a while back. The old system is still up, but newer transfers don't show up. When you go to the Recorder website looking for more recent transactions, make sure you click "online recordings" NOT "online recordings (removing link 6/1/16)". Unfortunately, I have never gotten Silverlight, which the new site requires, to work properly in most browsers. It seems to work OK in Internet Explorer though. Figures that it would work in the crappiest browser.

posted by Ace_Face on Mar 22, 2017 at 04:47:17 pm     #  

"The Recorder moved to a new system a while back. I have never gotten Silverlight, which the new site requires, to work properly in most browsers. It seems to work OK in Internet Explorer though."

Silverlight is or was a Microsoft product.

https://www.microsoft.com/silverlight/what-is-silverlight/

Microsoft Silverlight is a free web-browser plug-in that enables interactive media experiences, rich business applications and immersive mobile apps.

Windows? Check. Mac? Check. Linux? Check. Silverlight works on all major OS's plus all major browsers, including Firefox, Google Chrome, Safari, and yes, Internet Explorer.

I know little about Microsoft products. I don't use them directly. I'll defer to others about Silverlight, but I thought that was an outdated technology.

This Toledo Talk thread marks the first time in a long time where I have encountered the word "Silverlight".

Here's the Silverlight blog. The last post was dated August 2012.

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/silverlight

The Wikipedia page may or may not provide useful info.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Silverlight

Microsoft Silverlight is a deprecated [citation needed] application framework for writing and running rich Internet applications, similar to Adobe Flash.

Microsoft announced the end of life of Silverlight 5 in 2012.

In 2013, Microsoft announced that they had ceased development of Silverlight except for patches and bugfixes. [citation needed]

Microsoft has set the support end date for Silverlight 5 to be October 2021.

Silverlight is no longer supported in Google Chrome since September 2015, and in Firefox since March 2016.

Since Microsoft Edge does not support plugins, it also does not support Silverlight.

Again, I'll let people familiar with Microsoft products confirm what's listed in the Silverlight Wikipedia page.

If the info is true, then a local political entity has installed a "new" system that requires software that most modern browsers cannot execute.

posted by jr on Mar 22, 2017 at 05:28:34 pm     #  

I went to the Recorders website, clicked on the 'new' online recording link and got redirected to install Silverlight. I did ... and it keeps redirecting me to install Silverlight. Tried it in both Chrome and Explorer same result.

So yeah, Lucas County got exactly what we expected with Copeland. Yippee.

I did find the originally documents - it just use to be so easy to find the recorded documents that was the first thing I tried. What a waste of a nice system. And why hasn't the auditor's office updated their links to go to the new system instead of sending people to the old system? Kaczala had his problems but he was on top of the technology.

posted by MsArcher on Mar 22, 2017 at 07:47:57 pm     #  

On my Linux desktop computer, I'm using the latest official release of Firefox, which is version 52.0.1.

And, like others, when I clicked on Online Recordings at the LC Recorder page, a new browser tab was opened, which said that I needed to install Silverlight to view the content.

I clicked the image, but since I used Linux, I was redirected to the Moonlight program, which was last updated in 2013.

From the Moonlight homepage:

Moonlight is an open source implementation of Silverlight, primarily for Linux and other Unix/X11 based operating systems. The last Moonlight release (Moonlight 4 Preview 1) provides support for most features of Silverlight 3, as well as compatibility with Silverlight 4.

The Mono project does not provide binary downloads for Moonlight; however, packages for most Linux distributions can be found online, either in official distro package repositories, or provided by popular third-party repositories.

Note: Moonlight isn’t actively developed anymore. If you’re feeling adventurous you can probably get it working by compiling from source, but we recommend you move away from Moonlight as soon as possible.


What makes the recorder data so sophisticated that it needs special, outdated software to view it?


The first website was published on December 20, 1990, and we can view the site's contents at the following URL:

http://info.cern.ch/hypertext/WWW/TheProject.html

(do a view-source on that page for some interesting markup style)

But in 2017, I cannot access Lucas County recorder data with a brand new Firefox web browser.


A few weeks ago, the feds released version 1.0 of their U.S. Web Design Standards. It's an interesting project. I don't agree with everything, but as the top comment in the Hacker News thread stated:

Even if you disagree, just the existence of a Gov standard will: Force software developers for public services to put up a minimal decent interface, instead of just a list of features.

Remember that software isn't intuitive, but familiar.

I wouldn't consider Silverlight to be familiar. Not now. Definitely not for accessing data at a government website.

Another HN comment:

Government sites should be snappy and accessible to all above all else.

https://standards.usa.gov/design-principles

We designed the U.S. Web Design Standards to help you create better experiences for the American public.

Requiring users to install Silverlight is not part of those standards.

It might take a while for some of those standards to trickle down to the local level, although we shouldn't have to wait for usefulness.

posted by jr on Mar 22, 2017 at 10:38:24 pm     #