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Toledo Talk   (musing about Lake Erie West and beyond)
From justsimplyholly's workspace   

Area flooding

I know most of the areas that are under water are posted at many of the local news websites, but I thought it might be a good idea if we shared information about our own areas here. I know that I have yet to hear anything on the news about my area and we have a couple of fairly dangerous spots if you are in a car VS a truck or SUV.

I live in the Spencer/Harding Township area and wanted to pass along that the intersection of Schwamberger Road and Bancroft Road is an area you really want to avoid in a car. The water is deep and has a pretty good pull current to it! There was also at least one area on Raab Road between Dorr and Bancroft where water was over the road this morning as well, but I haven't been near it since before dawn, so it might have gone down since then.

Anyway, just thought I'd pass the info along. I tried calling 2 local stations about these areas and got a semi snippy response of "We're aware of the situation but we just don't have time to broadcast them all". I can understand, but it's still something that I felt was important enough to be told about because of the pull current.

created by justsimplyholly on Feb 06, 2008 at 12:12:26 pm     Comments: 18

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Comments ... #

I live in South Toledo and I have 3" of water in my basement. Damn pumps failed! My backyard is starting to look like "the Lake". My street is not flooded...just my yard. Not my neighbors yard on either side or behind me...JUST MINE! WTH is up with that?

posted by KraZyKat on Feb 06, 2008 at 12:26:11 pm     #



Kat - welcome to Toledo. How do you like the flowers and the signs in the 'Most Liveable City' ?

posted by elmahico on Feb 06, 2008 at 12:34:28 pm     #



That so totally sucks Kat, I'm sorry!

posted by justsimplyholly on Feb 06, 2008 at 12:50:43 pm     #



KrazyKat, I wonder if your neighbors' yards slope toward yours. It might be worth your while next summer to either put in some tile to drain your yard, or raise the level of your yard.

posted by oldsendbrdy on Feb 06, 2008 at 01:00:57 pm     #



The sub pump in my ark went out and I think I lost a few dinosaurs tacking. Fiddle faddle.

It's like Poltergeist but instead of a cemetary, it's a swamp.

posted by charlatan on Feb 06, 2008 at 01:03:22 pm     #



I always get some dampness in my basement after a heavy rain. I live in the Old South End near Broadway. I have brick set into the soil in my basement. I should probably consider concreting it, but the water (which never get over 1/4") goes back into the soil in less than a day. I have heard of people (especially over between the Anthony Wayne Trail and Detroit) who have real flooding in their basements. That would be a real pain in the butt.

posted by oldsendbrdy on Feb 06, 2008 at 01:04:36 pm     #



OSEB,
Yes my yard is lower then my neighbors behind me, but at the same level as my neighbors on either side. I believe there is tile around the house as I have this hugh crock in the basement where ground water collects. I have a sump pump in there but it appears to have failed.

I live along Swan creek off of S. Detroit where they built this levee 10 years ago (which I am still paying for). Suppose to prevent the flood of 100 years or something like that.

I have been pretty fortunate as I did not have any flooding (except fo a 1/4 inch or so) a couple of summers back when they had the massive storm. Good thing too as I was out-of-town at that time, but this time just sucks as it has now cost me a days work, 50.00 and counting for a pump, aggravation and a propped open door to feed the pump hose out in 35 degree weather. Now we are getting freezing rain. Oh MAN!

posted by KraZyKat on Feb 06, 2008 at 01:30:00 pm     #



Kat - used to have the same problem. I invested in sloping my yard towards my neighbors', now their yards flood. Luckily, they don't invest the money to slope it back or soon we would all have backyards that were resemble ski slopes.

posted by JJFad on Feb 06, 2008 at 02:25:26 pm     #



Every time we put a stream into a pipe underground we creat a choke point that causes floods. Develpment continues upstream and soon makes the pipe undersized ,, unable to carry the runoff coming from new developments which always present faster runoff, as well as more runoff. Roofs carry water faster to the stream than would a field, same with sidewalks, parking lots, and "well drained" lots.

A good start would be to rename all the cities "ditches", to streams.

posted by prime3end on Feb 06, 2008 at 04:35:17 pm     #



Oh, and all the retention ponds being built under NPDS 2, are way too small. NPDS 2 is a joke.

posted by prime3end on Feb 06, 2008 at 04:38:25 pm     #



Oooof. In Chicago right now. Hope our basement is okay (O.W.E.). If it's flooded it will be the first time, but our friends one street over have 4" of water in theirs.

posted by jhostetler on Feb 06, 2008 at 05:26:54 pm     #



Isn't it part of due diligence to check to see if a property has a history of flooding or a perceived future of flooding before you invest in it?

posted by charlatan on Feb 06, 2008 at 09:24:15 pm     #



Sorry to disappoint you Charlatan in your belief that somehow I invested in property without due diligence. Quite the opposite. I bought this property knowing it layed in the Swan Creek Flood plain. I bought the required Federal Flood Insurance to secure the loan. I was aware that a dike was being built on Swan Creek to avoid a flood similar to that which the neighborhood had in the late 70's or early 80's (not sure of the date)and that a special assesment was to be applied against my taxes for the next 10 years.

All that being known, I liked the neighborhood, the home was affordable for a single person with a normal income, interest rates were relatively low, and the Urban convenience all convinced me to invest in this property.

I am not bitching about a flood here. I was protected. I am bitching about the weather and the fact that my pumps failed which caused 3" of water to accumulate in my basement.

So quit reading into this post something thats not here and insinuating that those who buy in flood prone areas must all be negligent in due dilligence.

I knew the risk, took my chances and now will face the consequences. I don't expect pity to be shined upon me. I am not singing any Swan Song (no pun intended on Swan Creek)as I will go on living here despite the occasional water.

posted by KraZyKat on Feb 06, 2008 at 10:29:32 pm     #



KraZyKat...

Sorry for your water problems. Does it ease your pain any that the mayor will be proud of you for being the first to create a water garden out back?

posted by braincramp on Feb 06, 2008 at 11:13:34 pm     #



Kat..
I work in the insurance industry. Do you have waterback-up? Did the pumps fail due to over-flow or maintance? Call your agent.

posted by Eastsider on Feb 07, 2008 at 01:04:19 am     #



The truth about flooding in Toledo is that it's governed by one word. That word is not "if". It's "WHEN".

Once you admit that flooding in your home is a WHEN condition, not an IF condition, then you're ready for the reality of flood preparation in Toledo.

The basement should be considered a damp zone. This means no conversion into a carpeted family room, or any other such nonsense like that. Toledo basements are damp. Just admit it.

So here's what you can do:

MINIMUM OR CHEAPEST PREPARATIONS

1. Get as much possible off the floor for everything currently mobile (desks, chairs, boxes, shelves, washer, dryer). Don't keep cartons of books on the floor. Don't put computers on the floor. In fact, anything that can be put up high (or higher) from the basement floor, SHOULD BE. Build at least 6 inches up for everything, using wood or wood+brick; often you can use cast-off materials for this sort of thing. Of particular note, washers and dryers can be put on wooden or plastic shipping pallets. Pallets can often be obtained for free from many places which stack them up as garbage from their shipping operations. If you see such stacks, just drop by and inquire. Grab 2 pallets for EACH washer and dryer you have, and then place a double stack under each such appliance. Some things that are robust and are already off the floor (like work benches) can stay as is. Cost: $100 for materials and gasoline.

2. Identify your basement drain piping, get used to opening the cleanout cap, and perform a basic cleanout on a schedule. The cap gets old and if not opened with some frequency, it rusts shut and becomes an impossible task for you to open when you need to (esp. during an emergency). Once you open that cap (note: replace with a plastic version, which can't rust), use a cheap, manual snake to perform a cleanout through the drainpipe leading to the street sewer line. When obstructions start to occur (like breaks and roots), you will get early warning when your manual snake starts to bind up during your seasonal cleanout. Cost: $100.

3. Identify any existing sump pumps and check them yearly AT LEAST. Seasonal checks would be better, since seasons bring sudden squalls. Recognize also that in a storm, your power may fail, hence the pumps won't work anyway. Cost: $0.

4. Identify all drain points of entry into your basement. Putting in a check valve in your floor drain won't help when the water can just rise through a basement toilet. Cost: varies, depending if you install check valves and close down basement toilets.

5. Identify slopes and pits in your yard which either hold water or direct water towards your home. Re-form such slopes and pits to slough water off towards the drain (and NO, not towards your neighbor!!). Cost: varies, but close to $0 due to personal labor and garden tools.

After those preparations, you have reduced your chances of being flooded to a certain minimum, but that's still not enough for Toledo. To go further, save money and plan on the following:

ADVANCED PREPARATIONS

1. Get all appliances off the floor by at least 6 inches. The more expensive appliances should be off the floor by a few feet. Are you changing your furnace soon? If so, then talk to your furnace installer and convince him to install the furnace (usually a lot smaller than the previous generation) on top of a stone pier sitting on your basement floor. What's the point in installing a $2000 furnace which can be destroyed for the want of a $50 stone pier?

2. Dig a sump well in an appropriate spot, install TWO sump pumps in it, and then also run a generator line to them. Some houses may not be suitable for sump pumping, and retrofitting the drain into a sump well may be costly. Come to your own conclusions after luring a good plumber into your basement for a consulting fee.

3. For thorny water catchment issues for the yard, consider digging a yard cistern of sorts for holding that water for preparation for drainage.

4. Yard drain pipes are a huge neglected piece of infrastructure for Toledo. You will probably need to just dig yours up and install a larger one (i.e. an industrial size that should have been installed to begin with), which you must still maintain with seasonal or yearly cleanouts.

I've lived through too many Toledo floods, and I believe that I've seen it all by this point. Just because your basement is dry, and has always been dry, DON'T BE FOOLED. Ask Chad Quigley about that (much to his cost). The watchword for Toledo flooding is "WHEN", not "if".

posted by GuestZero on Feb 09, 2008 at 12:03:57 pm     #



Good ones GZ. The elevations haven't changed a lot since great black swamp days. What has changed is that we hope the water will flow into pipes and ditches without overflowing. This defies reason since development upstream would be likely to increase runoff speed and amount of runoff. Add in some bigger than usual rainfalls and we get this stuff. It would be great to see a raingarden in every yard to minimize the problem, they could runoff into the streets/stormdrains, but first they would catch the first bit of rain and hold it to percolate into the ground. Most everyone along the ditches drainage route would have to do it.

Also with regard to check valves or stand pipes, if you have block basement foundation and a high water table in the soil, you increase the possibility of basement wall collapse. Probalby have to know soil types to know if this is a danger.
Seems as though sandy soil would be the worst. Anyone have experience with this type of thing?

posted by prime3end on Feb 10, 2008 at 05:41:18 pm     #



Thanks for the warning about the use of check valves. I've seen severe foundation damage from water pressure, and it isn't pretty. I've also seen foundation supports installed during construction in anticipation of overpressure from the soils as you said. I've only seen those types of supports ONCE in all my forays in Toledo basements. Toledoans are saddled with foundation nightmares. Remember that flooding event in West Toledo (last year?) that even brought Czarty out to squirt a few crocodile tears? There was at least one example of a foundation wall collapse, and I dimly recall the building had to be condemned.

posted by GuestZero on Feb 11, 2008 at 10:06:58 am     #