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It doesn't shock me though. When I reported here, I found out how much Carty really "loves" big government. For instance in the Coast Guard's SAFETY rules and regulations over the bridges (MLK for example). Sounds like another power play by the mayor as if to say 'hey, in my town, I'm the boss'. If he only knew the truth, it's not a wise thing to fahk around with big brother.

posted by djimpelr on Feb 09, 2008 at 10:26:11 am     #

Well, Friday business hours strikes me as a bad time to have a bunch of soldiers running around the streets in battle gear carrying M4's. "Inducing Panic" comes to mind.

Far from a 'newshound', I didn't see any coverage of this exercise on TV/radio/newspaper.

If memory serves, past exercises were staged on the weekend - and god knows, there's NO ONE downtown on the weekend!

Gonna have to side with Carty on this one.

(OHMYGOD!! Did I really say that? That means Carty & I BOTH have Mad Cow Disease!!)

posted by GraphicsGuy on Feb 09, 2008 at 10:43:08 am     #

Me too Graphics Guy.

posted by corky on Feb 09, 2008 at 11:38:41 am     #

Me three. I work downtown and a few years back they were training in and around the Cosi/Promenade Park area. I cam in to work on a saturday and they still startled me at first. Can't imagine what would happen with heavy traffic and gawkers on a Friday.

posted by Ryan on Feb 09, 2008 at 12:00:50 pm     #

From the Feb 9, 2008 Toledo Blade story :

The 200 members of Company A, 1st Battalion, 24th Marines, based in Grand Rapids, Mich., planned to spend their weekend engaged in urban patrol exercises on the streets of downtown as well as inside the mostly vacant Madison Building, 607 Madison Ave. Toledo police knew days in advance about their plans for a three-day exercise. Yet somehow the memo never made it to Mayor Finkbeiner, who ordered the Marines out yesterday afternoon just minutes before their buses were to arrive.

Sergeant Davis, who traveled ahead of the five-bus convoy, stepped from his vehicle into downtown about 3:20 p.m. and was told by a city employee that the mayor wanted him and his soldiers packed up and out by 6 p.m. "I wish they would have told us this four hours ago," Staff Sgt. Andre Davis said. Sergeant Davis and other company leaders estimated the total cost of the aborted training exercise, including travel, at roughly $10,000.

Members of the 1st Battalion, 24th Marines have trained periodically in downtown Toledo since at least 2004 and most recently in May, 2006. Past exercises have involved mock gun fights, ambushes, and the firing of blank ammunition.

Maj. Jeffrey O'Neill, the company's commanding officer, said he was disappointed by how events played out yesterday, especially because Toledo had been a gracious host for Marine exercises in the past. "You can go to military ranges for live fire [exercises], but there's no way to duplicate the urban jungle unless you actually train inside a city," Major O'Neill said.

Lance Cpl. Brandon Bukrey-McCarty, 22, recalled taking part in the company's 2006 urban patrol exercise in downtown Toledo. He said he learned skills during that exercise that proved useful during the unit's deployment to Fallujah, Iraq, in 2006-2007. The training "got me used to looking up on rooftops, looking around every alley, every open door."

Mmm, spending a weekend in downtown Toledo will prepare one for a long visit to Fallujah, eh?

Feb 7, 2003 Toledo Talk posting that pointed to a WSPD news story:

If you see Marines in combat gear moving around in uptown Toledo this weekend, it is just a drill. Reserves will be practicing urban combat in and around several uptown buildings. You will see them Saturday afternoon between 1 and 6.

From a comment in a Dec 10, 2006 thread about a brawl at the Westfield Mall :

GZ is on to something, so send in the Marines. Have the Marines do some urban warfare training at the mall like they have done in downtown Toledo a couple of times. David Gergen said Toledo looks like a war zone, so bring it on.

That December 2006 comment pointed to the following stories :

• Dec 29, 2004 Toledo Blade : Marines will stay close to home for urban training
• Jan 9, 2005 Toledo Blade : Marines prowl streets of downtown Toledo
• Mar 9, 2006 Toledo Blade : Marines to conduct urban training in downtown
• Apr 6, 2006 Portland Indymedia : Marines Patrol Streets in Toledo Ohio

The Marines will take over parts of downtown Toledo as sounds of gunfire will echo off buildings when training exercises are conducted.

Once again, the sound of gunfire will ring through downtown Toledo as Marine Corps Reservists participate in urban training. The Marines will wear desert digital camouflage uniforms, carry rifles, perform foot and motorized patrols, and fire blank ammunition during the exercise.

Twice in the last month 20-30 marine reservists, fully attired in camo, and armed to the teeth with semi-automatic machine guns patrolled the streets of downtown Toledo, OH for an entire weekend. The Blade said they were authorized to fire live blanks at innocent civilians. I first noticed them outside the window of the school where I teach...they walked within feet of a bus stop where two schools worth of students stood confused, scared, and horrified. I took the following photo from my 4th floor window...

posted by jr on Feb 09, 2008 at 01:10:52 pm     #

Never seen this movie, but apparently it all came true and our brethren to the north (Wolverines) were there to save us and so was Patrick Swayze. The Russians however successfully infiltrated the US through Tetris and the Rubik's cube, plus Sergei "Liberace lite" Federov.

posted by charlatan on Feb 09, 2008 at 02:42:46 pm     #

The mayor could have sent the Marines to some of the near downtown areas, and any gunfire would have been ignored (too common a back-ground noise). The only problem is that they might have received return fire from homegrown 2nd Amendment advocates.

posted by oldsendbrdy on Feb 09, 2008 at 03:04:49 pm     #

What's wrong with having GIANT white signs, with RED LETTERS, that read: MARINES in Training !!

Put about 20 of them on different street corners, facing traffic.

It's a sad state of affairs, when the mayors DOG gets more consideration, than soldiers in uniform.

posted by WalterAnthony on Feb 09, 2008 at 03:34:32 pm     #

I might add, though, that Carty SCARES the hell out of a lot of people too.

Those that are scared of Carty, what's say we call the little worm and ask him to leave.

I read somewhere Berkley CA had the same type 'run-in' with the Military doing their maneuvers, the Feds threatened to cut bunches of Federal monies. Berkley relented.

Mad Cow disease or not, he definitely puts Toledo 'on the map'! Like Mae West, Carty must go by the motto "I'd rather be talked about than forgotten."

posted by GraphicsGuy on Feb 09, 2008 at 05:07:01 pm     #

In Berkeley, locals wanted to shut down the Marines' recruiting office. Protests there weren't about training exercises.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/07/berkeley.protests/

posted by jmleong on Feb 09, 2008 at 06:18:20 pm     #

I stand...err..sit corrected.

posted by GraphicsGuy on Feb 09, 2008 at 07:26:28 pm     #

If Im not mistaken that article said training would be on Saturday not Friday during business hours.

posted by Linecrosser on Feb 09, 2008 at 07:51:20 pm     #

the Drudge Report linked the story so you can read what everyone else in the country thinks...everyone else that reads the Drudge Report.

http://www.nbc24.com/news/news_story.aspx?id=94192

posted by thetoledowire_com on Feb 09, 2008 at 09:52:22 pm     #

well again this idiot has put toledo on the map again for the wrong reasons though. This has hit the blog super highway and is all across the country now. Good way to make a good showing for toledo

posted by camaroman2125 on Feb 09, 2008 at 10:40:48 pm     #

Why wasn't the public made aware that their would be military training exercises with blank ammunition fired on our streets before it was to occur? There's nothing wrong with a little street fighting but why not tell the everyone first? Seriously, who dropped the ball? Carty? The police? The Marines? The Media?

posted by thetoledowire_com on Feb 09, 2008 at 10:49:28 pm     #

apparently the police put out a memo that they would be here

posted by camaroman2125 on Feb 09, 2008 at 10:54:40 pm     #

"Police said the unit’s presence would have a minimal impact on the city. Police issued a press release earlier in the week saying the Marines would be wearing green camouflage uniforms, operate military vehicles, carry rifles, perform foot patrols,and fire blank ammunition during the exercise."

posted by camaroman2125 on Feb 09, 2008 at 11:14:58 pm     #

So, the police failed to adequately inform the public?

posted by thetoledowire_com on Feb 09, 2008 at 11:25:17 pm     #

who knows where it fell through. But everyone is pointing the finger at everyone else so who knows.

posted by camaroman2125 on Feb 09, 2008 at 11:41:40 pm     #

Nobody failed to adequately inform the public. WSPD was including this in their newscasts on Thursday. It was well publicized. We all know Mayor Finkenstein doesn't listen to 'SPD, but maybe he should from now on.... What an embarassment.

posted by MoveToTheBurbs on Feb 10, 2008 at 01:18:11 am     #

The entire press conference is up at myfoxtoledo.com.

posted by stormguy13 on Feb 10, 2008 at 01:18:56 am     #

i fully support carty doing this
i worked AND lived downtown last time there was training and it freaked me the fuck out.

i had no idea this was happening, and i watch the local news regularly. we should be warned about this stuff WEEKS in advance, not days....

posted by upso on Feb 10, 2008 at 01:24:27 am     #

It looks as though these brilliant intellectuals don't like the Marines in Toledo either. http://www.counterpunch.org/yang01292005.html
Read all about it. The total B.S. about Jeep being akin to a Nazi Forced Labor Camp is a total line of B.S. as well. The "Jeep Friend" they talk about is a liar too. It isn't nice to threaten the workforce, whether they be management or union, with bodily harm by gunfire, yet this individual apparently has no problem doing exactly that.

P.S.The stupid lies about the former Jeep Unit Union administration being corrupt are just that, lies.This person has never come forward with one ounce of proof of any of his wild allegations. I repeatedly asked for this person to show proof of the many allegations. This person also spent a great deal of time attempting to get his own allies installed in union positions, and to discredit honest people who participate in legitimate and lawful union opposition. I have evidence that this person, "Jeep Friend" was also behind a recent lawsuit filed against me by a proxy, for it just wouldn't do for the light of day to shine fully upon this virtual "Rasputin of the Jeep workforce."

Sincerely, Chris Mantyla Chrysler Employee UAW Local 12 Jeep

cc Hon. Judge Ruth Ann Franks, Lucas County Common Pleas Court
cc Hon. Judge Stephen Yarbrough, retired
cc Toledo Police Department
cc Toledo Office of the F.B.I.

posted by Bbcmjeep43 on Feb 10, 2008 at 01:41:49 am     #

let's see
The marines informed TPD when and what they would be doing.
TPD put out press releases but the local media did not give it enough exposure so downtown employees and the Mighty Mayor Carty were confused.
As a result, and not to "scare" the poor downtown workers who could have just called the police(refer to dialing 911 instructions) to find out what was going on, we chased them back across the border.
So in the near future, if we would happen to need these marines help, I don't think we'll get it. Don't fret though, Carty and scout can surely save us from anything that we might need the marines for, right?

posted by tommy1 on Feb 10, 2008 at 03:34:06 am     #

Bbcmjeep43, yeah, union bosses have never been corrupt or linked to crime.
signed,
Jimmy Hoffa

posted by tommy1 on Feb 10, 2008 at 03:36:20 am     #

More importantly than this story making the Drudge Report, it also made it to Fark.com with the "Dumbass" label assigned to it. That thread contains 168 comments.

Some of the gems :

Oh for Christsakes! It's Toledo!! The Marines could call in airstikes and it would be an inprovement.

I have lived in Toledo my whole life. They have done this several times before. Its more of "WTF?" situation than a frightening. It's kind of badass to be going home from a concert in downtown and see the guys all camo'd up running around. Quite simply, Carty is an old dumbass and wants everything and everybody of his lawn

Mudhens ARE a particularly stupid bird

In other news, people from Toledo are pansies.

Mayor Douchenozzle is scared of practicing soldiers... I'd hate to think what would happen in Toledo if a car backfired...

Personally, I think that if the Mayor of Toledo doesn't like it, this shows he also doesn't like other federal programs or funding. consider this sort of thing paying for the money you get, because I'm willing to bet a place like Toledo gets way more federal money than it pays back in taxes.

Ah, Toledo. Michigan, you guys can have it back, no hard feelings.

I would be willing to bet however they are reservists doing their weekend drill (As am I, well on active duty now on cooldown from Iraq), and a lot of units arent fortunate enough to have these facilities nearby. Trust me this training is NEEEDED, when i was called up I barely had any urban combat experience and that was all I did over there.

So whats the muslim population there?

Thinking they were going to hit the mosque in Perrysburg?

It's Toledo for cryin' out loud. Or as the rest of Ohio calls it "Detroit Jr.". How could you tell if the gun fire was any different from the usual crap that goes on in that hell hole? If the citizens saw the military, they might think Carty had finally got off his fat ass and started taking some action against the thugs in Toledo.

So NOW we're calling people "dumbasses" because they don't want to have military exercises conducted in the middle of their towns? Holy fark, how much more like 1960's Soviet Russia does America have to become to make some of you jackasses happy? Two buildings get knocked down, and seven years later we're still acting like frightened schoolgirls. Some of you really need to grow some balls.

posted by jr on Feb 10, 2008 at 06:06:31 am     #

I’m talking about making allegations with out a shred of proof or backup. There has been corruption, and may always be some, yet I firmly believe that people need to have some type of proof before making wild and troubling allegations. Where’s the beef? There isn’t any. I only see chickens here with these types of statements. You may have missed it Tommy, but there was an entire group of people on here attempting to influence public opinion and discredit their legitimate union political opposition in 2004, 2005, and 2006. After I had repeatedly asked them to show proof of their many charges and stories, they have left Toledo Talk. Of course they weren’t as numerous as they falsely led the public to believe, as one or more of them had multiple screen names, possibly posting from multiple computers to have a different I.P address to go with the different screen names. There’s nothing like having two people posting in the same thread when that twofer is really a onesie! I believe that is a form of dishonesty in itself.
I have a first cousin serving in the Marines and a good friend, so I would say that if they needed to conduct some drills for training, then what’s the big problem. I am personally opposed to the Iraq War, but we are there now, so just running out is not a very good option. That’s my opinion only.
I also don’t know all of the reasons for canceling the exercise, so I am reserving any opinions on that aspect.
Bottom line: If you believed that someone is corrupt, and come forward with some proof of this, that’s fine by me, however, to just toss out various and sundry damaging allegations and innuendo with no proof whatsoever is chicken shit behavior!

I was also showing that others are opposed to military training in cities. I have a right to criticize their publicly published articles, and especially since they contain references to my personal friends with untrue and unproven allegations. I have been waiting since January 2005 for “Jeep Friend” to step forward with his “big bag of verifiable proof”! I believe he’s carrying a bag allright, it’s just that it’s full of something else other than the proof of his allegations.

posted by Bbcmjeep43 on Feb 10, 2008 at 10:53:38 am     #

It could be I stand corrected again. I thought I had read that the 'soirée' was to be held on Friday. Turns out that most of the festivities were for the weekend.

DAMN shame the 'Recall Carty' movement didn't have enough signatures!

Well, at least I didn't vote for him. Actually, since there were no viable candidates, I didn't vote at all! Next time, I'll write in 'Maggie' or 'Brian Wilson'!

posted by GraphicsGuy on Feb 10, 2008 at 11:35:01 am     #

Carty was right, if there isn't timely warning to the public in advance then its going to create panic.
Even with advanced notice not everyone is going to get the word and in this day of concealed carry you might see some folks unholstering their hidden sidearms before they actually see that there is a uniform. Worse they could fire at whatever the Marines are firing blanks at. Carty did right.

posted by prime3end on Feb 10, 2008 at 05:46:25 pm     #

prime3end, are you are mentally challenged? There is a level of responsibility for concealed carry. It doesn't give you the right to just "unholster" and start shooting dirty harry style and find out later why. If you are in doubt as to what is going on, climb out from under your rock, take the time and make the effort to find out what is going on. A simple phone call to the police would have satisfied anyone's curiousity. You don't have to run around aimlessly in downtown Toledo and hide in the sewers, afraid of loud noises and men in uniforms until mommy gives you a blanket and tells you it's ok. Carty did wrong and tried to defend his actions by saying that he was worried about the downtown workers.

posted by tommy1 on Feb 10, 2008 at 06:40:14 pm     #

Tommy, without the condescending sarcasm, why is it unreasonable to be given advanced notice about military training exercises on our streets. It there any good reason why the vast majority of Toledo's weren't informed weeks beforehand.

posted by thetoledowire_com on Feb 10, 2008 at 07:27:53 pm     #

Tommy, are you a dolt! If you are in a position that leads a prudent man to believe his or others lives are in danger, you have a right to pull your weapon. Or are you living in Russia? Would automatic weapons fire make someone who didn't know what the heck was going on feel as though he or others were threatened? LOL Are you speaking to us from Alpha C ?

posted by prime3end on Feb 10, 2008 at 07:46:23 pm     #

At least Carty isn't afraid to do something, most others are afraid to do anything. He was right in this case.
Besides, all the marines have to do is wait another year of bush financial ruination and the city will be a ghost town. They can practice all they want then. LOL

posted by prime3end on Feb 10, 2008 at 07:52:46 pm     #

Have you even trained for concealed carry prime??? I have and you have a duty to retreat first unless you have no ground for retreat. If you don't do this you more than likely will be facing some jail time. And There was a press release that they would be here not their fault someone didn't do their job and get it out to the public. Go ahead and be a sheep and live under rock and be scared of the little soldiers. If I seen this I wouldn't think one thing about it.

posted by camaroman2125 on Feb 10, 2008 at 08:20:03 pm     #

Toledo is a dying city under the mayor's watch. Crime is rising, businesses leaving and property values declining so fast that people are burning their houses. What is the mayors solution? Change the subject by grand standing against the marines. Hell at least it would have been safer with the marines in town for a few days. Toledo , Cleveland and Columbus all have idiots for mayors and these cities are the laughing stock of the nation.

posted by bigmarunga on Feb 10, 2008 at 08:23:25 pm     #

Carty's judgement and/ or organization, once again, needs to be called into question. You can debate whether or not the training should take place in that setting.

Why did the Mayor or his office contact the Marines prior to them leaving Grand Rapids? He had a few days to do so. The press release should have given Carty a clue as to the pending training.

Once the Marines "landed", training should have been allowed to proceed. Carty's office dropped the ball and the Marines and our city pay for his lack of tact, common sense, and ability.

If Carty still didn't like it after this year's training, tell them politely there would not be a next time.

Yeah, Carty may not be afraid to do something. That's no reason to applaud him, though, when it always seems to be the wrong thing he's doing.

posted by Postal on Feb 10, 2008 at 09:17:47 pm     #

Instead of building that shower at mayor's headquarters, maybe the money should have been used for a "hotline" to the police department so Carty could have been informed. Shame on the local media outlets for not making the release of that information a priority. Did downtown workers get scared when all the protestors were outside COSI? I just hope that I'm nowhere around prime3end when a car backfires or has a loud thumping stereo because he'll be drawing his weapon and shooting at random. Hey prime3end, how long do you spend in front of the mirror practicing your "do you feel lucky punk" routine?

posted by tommy1 on Feb 10, 2008 at 10:02:58 pm     #

Bush's war and rape of the treasury bankrupt the nation and you blame Carty. LOL

As far as concealed carry, I'd wonder what the reaction of a Toledo police officer would have been had he not been told and heard automatic weapons fire on the next f'n block. He would have drawn his weapon, and spoke on his radio and would have asked for backup as he protected his position. Doing much else, besides running would be stupid. But then how is a citizens duty to protect others any different than a police officers. I don't see a distinction.

posted by prime3end on Feb 10, 2008 at 10:21:56 pm     #

I'm sure we all know people, even police officers who would have went into combat mode. I'm not talking about what the book says, I'm talking about what you do when you hear the sound of full auto in your ears and chest, like being too close to the fireworks on the 4th of July. Allowing the operation to proceed without a fully informed public would have been dangerous and stupid. Really f'n stupid. Which old lady or man did you want to give the heart attack to? Inducing panic is a criminal offense and proceeding without notice would have been just that.

posted by prime3end on Feb 10, 2008 at 11:43:58 pm     #

I've read in a couple of different places that the previous Police Chief, Jack Smith had a run-in with King Carty the last time the Marines did maneuvers here. Carty made it clear he did not want the Marines 'practicing' in Toledo AT ALL. Smith, being an ex-Marine, went head-to-head with Carty over that one. (unlike Navarre, at least HE had a spine!)

Now, there might be a fear factor, seeing a bunch of guys in fatigues running around, but I would think the first thought that would come to many would be that the maneuvers were law enforcement related, e.g. drug related or a hostage situation. That might bring some 'concern' to some, but fear? Probably not. Not really much different that a situation requiring the SWAT team.

Now that I'm learning more and more about the situation and history of our King, it appears less that he is concerned with the citizens and more about flexing his muscles.

(And as far as CCW folks pulling pieces? I'm CCW , and I think that many that are trained would figure "Hey, military! They've got it in control. I'm outta here!" And the concern with Officers not being told and calling in air strikes or whatever? Trust me - they were all informed at each shift briefing!)

Once again, Toledo is the laughing stock of the Nation. I think it high-time we pull together and call for the King's abdication. Instead, we're all just sitting around complaining. The re-call didn't work. Perhaps the Marines would assist in a coup d’état?

posted by GraphicsGuy on Feb 11, 2008 at 04:50:54 am     #

LOL,, youre surprised by full automatic weapons fire and you will automatically think, "military"??? I wouldn't,not at all, and I really don't think the survival part of your brain would either.

If you saw military vehicles maybe so. But what if you didn't, what if you are just a heart patient who hears full auto fire in the next building? We don't need no stinkin marines in our cities inciting people to fear so they vote repiglican.(aka NAZI, Neocon, fascist, or just plain pigshits)

The eternal fox POS speakers keep resounding that only a nazi pig can protect us. LOL, I've lived a lot of decades without the marines practicing how to shoot people in downtown Toledo. Why don't they practice taking out the people who lied to take us into a war that has destroyed our economy and loots our treasury and kills our soldiers, an eternal war at that. I'd vote for that.

posted by prime3end on Feb 11, 2008 at 09:50:27 am     #

The Carleton S. Finkbeiner Wikipedia page has received some edits since Friday. A few were reverts after some unacceptable content was published.

Under the Controversy section on Carty's Wikipedia page, the following approved text has been added :

In February 2008, Finkbeiner refused to let a company of Marine Corps Reservists engage in urban patrol exercises on the streets of downtown as well as inside the mostly vacant Madison Building, 607 Madison Ave. Toledo police knew about the event three days in advance, but it wasn't until the Marines arrived that "the mayor asked them to leave because they frighten people," said Brian Schwartz, the mayor's spokesman.

Here are the edits to Carty's Wikipedia page that violated Wikipedia's guidelines :

1) Because of this, a fatwa has been ordered against him by right-wing retards who think that anyone who opposes the military hates humanity.

2.) caption = Mayor/Cocksucker of Toledo, Ohio

3.) image = SCUMBAG

posted by jr on Feb 11, 2008 at 11:04:22 am     #

Toledo police knew about the event three days in advance

Is this true. Just 3 days! They practically had to be packing their bags before they made the call.

Urban military training: Good
A little more notice: Also good

You wouldn't call your sister-in-law in Phoenix three days in advance and announce you're bringing the kids for the weekend.

posted by thetoledowire_com on Feb 11, 2008 at 12:07:19 pm     #

Your sister-in-law wouldn't wait for you to land in Phoenix to say "go home".

Was the 3 days the time given by the TPD press release? Or was it when the Marines requested approval? I would assume the Marines had this lined up long ago, long before this "3 day" timeframe.

posted by Postal on Feb 11, 2008 at 04:25:18 pm     #

Wow, every friday at noon when the siren test goes off, we got prime3end drawing his weapon and shooting at random targets, and downtown workers running around like chickens with their heads cut off hiding in the sewers because they get frightened like chipmunks. I am laughing so hard at the justification for Carty's actions, that I might pee myself.
Next time the marines should give a months notice, letters should be mailed out to every citizen, billboards should carry the information, maybe a few vehicles with lettering on the side to inform people and when the marines do come into town, have them dressed in pink moo-moos and use broom sticks for weapons as to not scare anyone.

posted by tommy1 on Feb 11, 2008 at 04:41:14 pm     #

(Technically, it's the first Friday of each month at Noon when the sirens sound one long note for testing, and, I'm not sure, but the test may be canceled if severe weather is in the area at the time of the scheduled test.)

I think the reason why Czarty rebuffed the Marines was to preserve downtown Toledo's love for silence.

posted by jr on Feb 11, 2008 at 05:01:16 pm     #

I don't think I have ever supported a conservative, Republican, or otherwise Bushesque idea on this board, so prime, don't try to make it out like this is some right vs. left argument. This debacle had nothing to do with the war in Iraq (which was a huge farce), it has nothing to do with President Bush (who is a huge failure). Rather, it has to do with Carty Finkbeiner once again lording over his little kingdom.

Carty simply doesn't like anything over which he has no control. So, when he heard that the marines were coming without having first kissed his ring, he decided to give them the boot. The man only does what is best for Toledo when it suits him. I agree that he loves this city, but that rarely has much to do with how he runs it.

As for informing the masses...You could run tv spots 24/7 for a month and there would still be a contingent of idiots who complain about the lack of prior information. I heard about the maneuvers this year. I lived downtown the first time they came to do the drills - I missed the memo. I was a little concerned, but I ASKED someone what was up. I got the answer and I am still here today, with my gun, AND all my body parts. Carty's excuse for turning them away is just that, an excuse.

posted by MoreThanRhetoric on Feb 11, 2008 at 05:10:09 pm     #

Feb 11, 2008 Grand Rapids Press story titled Snubbed in Toledo, Marines offered site by GRPD :

The call came too late to help out a group of West Michigan Marine Reserves in need of a training site. But it wasn't for lack of trying by Grand Rapids Police Lt. Ralph Mason. "When the U.S Marines call, you answer," said Mason.

He referred to the plight of the Grand Rapids-based unit, kicked out of Toledo Friday when its mayor made it clear he didn't want them engaged in war games in his city. Mason, who took the call late Friday afternoon, offered the use of a vacant elementary school building used by Grand Rapids police for tactical training. But the offer came too late for the unit to act on it.

Mason said he offered the Marines use of the vacant Oakdale Elementary school in Southeast Grand Rapids, a three-story building used periodically by the department's Special Response Team. Major Dan Whisnant, the company commander, said the unit is studying the offer.

Toledo Mayor Carty Finkbeiner ignited a firestorm of controversy in Toledo and beyond when he said he feared the Marines would frighten downtown residents and workers. Finkbeiner forced some 200 members of the Company A, 1st Battalion's 24th Marines, to turn around Friday afternoon and return to Grand Rapids without completing a weekend training mission its officers say is vital to their combat role.

Since then, five members of the city's council have called on Finkbeiner to apologize as many Toledo-area residents blasted the mayor for his stand. "This might be a situation where the City Council has to apologize for the mayor's actions," said councilman Frank Szollosi.

Finkbeiner was booed Sunday at halftime of a basketball game between the University of Toledo and Bowling Green State University.

I found this part of the story amusing :

The controversy was picked up by news outlets including the Drudge Report, which spawned angry responses from around the country. But it also engendered numerous comments in favor of his stand, including one from a resident of Texas who said: "I salute this mayor for taking a stand. We are already on our way to becoming a police state."

Obviously, that person knows nothing about the past actions by Toledo/Lucas County government because I think this area already owns a large amount of stock in the term "police state." If anything, we need the Marines here to protect the citizenry from local government.

posted by jr on Feb 11, 2008 at 05:27:15 pm     #

"the mayor asked them to leave because they frighten people," said Brian Schwartz, the mayor's spokesman.

From the Feb 11, 2008 Today's log at the Toledo Blade :

Crime reports

Robberies

Kelly Cunningham, cash by a known male at Huron and Madison at 9:15 a.m. Thursday.
Rick Crowell, Dorr, cash by two men who entered his residence and punched him at 2:25 p.m. Thursday.
Wal-Mart, Glendale, all merchandise was recovered when suspect attempted to flee from store at 6:30 p.m. Thursday.
Mark McDaniel, wallet, pizzas, and cash by a man with a knife in the 600 block of Fassett at 12:25 a.m. Thursday.
Thomas Miller, cab fare by a man who fled without paying in the 800 block of North Byrne about 4:30 a.m. Thursday.

Burglaries

Channing Williams, Prescott, no loss.
Henry Hartford, Willow, edger, weed trimmer, lawn mower, and snowblower.
Diane Hagan, Earl, snowblower.
Rosalie Falk, South Cove, boxed bookcase unit.
Shereece Patterson, Barrows, no loss.
Grace Loboschefski, Orchard, jars of change.
M&C Auto Sales, Bennett, no loss.
Chris Graser, Wright, TV, video game system, video games, DVD/VCR combo player, DVDs, digital camera, video camera, and computer system.
Greater Life Gospel Center Inc., Giant, water meter, electrical wiring, copper pipe, and stove.
Toledo Public Schools, West Woodruff, copper pipe.
Janis Bykowski, Harlan, undetermined loss.
Rebecca Ford, Mayberry, push mower and treadmill.
Jaafer Yazhek, Kendale, GPS.
Glen Burkett, Wichita, jewelry box, jewelry, and tin box containing personal papers.
AT&T, Kuhlman, power tools, hand tools, and electric wire.
Melissa Ellis, South 11th, TV and stereo radio.
Demirrz Robinson, Hausman, copper pipe.
Eugene Zablocki, Burbank, handgun and cash.
Neighborhoods Inc., Collingwood, computer system.
Radio Shack, South Reynolds, two GPS units.
Erin Nowicki, Cheltenham, two TVs, iPod, and jewelry.
Alexis Beverage, West Alexis, undetermined loss.
Deutsche Bank National Trust Co., Garden Park, water meter.
Ocie Turner, Dorr, undetermined loss.
Lanie Allen, Ventura, laptop computer and DVD player.
Speedway Tire and Auto, Benore, custom rims.
Yolanda Dabney, East Hudson, furnace, water heater, copper pipes, alarm system, dishwasher, microwave, bathroom vanity, and security door.
Lashawna Lewis, South Haven, two cell phones.
Custom Comp Services Inc., Monroe, no loss.
Totco Homes, Batavia, three stoves and two refrigerators.

Thefts

Sara Coloier, Tipp City, Ohio, laptop computer and CDs from vehicle in the 2100 block of Broadstone.
Verizon Wireless, Monroe, cell phones from store.
Wackenhut Corp., Executive, uniforms and equipment from business.
Mark Hendrix, Milroy, tool pouches, tool bags, and hand tools.
Shellby Sturt, Sylvania, laptop computer from church in the 2300 block of Collingwood.
Neville Funeral Home, Dorr, air conditioning unit and compressor unit from business.
Ronald Olson, Blissfield, laptop computer from vehicle in parking lot in the 5000 block of Monroe.
Mark Irwin, Everett, siding from house.
Diane Steinmetz, Strathmoor, purse and contents from vehicle at gas station in the 3000 block of Airport.

Other issues probably exist to be frightened about besides Marines training once a year for a day or two in downtown Toledo.

posted by jr on Feb 11, 2008 at 05:45:43 pm     #

The phrase Toledo mayor Marines causes a search engine to return more results than I expected. Some of the popular right-wing Web sites are naturally enjoying this. They probably saw the link on Drudge and ran with it.

• Little Green Footballs : Toledo Mayor to Marines: Please Leave - 253 comments
• Free Republic : Toledo Mayor to Marines: Drop dead - 123 comments
• Michelle Malkin : Berkeley of the Midwest: Toledo mayor orders Marines to leave - 66 comments
• Red State : First Berkeley, Now the Mayor of Toledo Tells the Marines to Leave - 15 comments
• Instapundit : BERKELEY EAST? Toledo to Marines: Get Out

Links about Carty vs. the Marines also made memeorandum on Saturday.

posted by jr on Feb 11, 2008 at 06:46:00 pm     #

Ok jr, not bushesque, but carty hating perhaps? Three days notice is not enough to even scedule the police force or get a notice out to the public. And comparing criminal activity to the marines isn't right either. Such an excercise by its potential for emotional trauma, should reqire far more than 3 days notice. If our police put on such an excercise, you can bet there would be more than 3 days notice.

And really, do they have to do it in an election year. I have confidence that marines already know how to kill terrorists. I firmly believe the excercise is designed to heighten fear and push people to vote for the nazis. It would take more than three days to make the signs that say: Marines are doing an excercise, don't have a heart attack. I dare say that it would take a couple days just to make sure all the cops knew it would be a drill. Three days.

posted by prime3end on Feb 11, 2008 at 07:42:32 pm     #

Emotional trauma? Voting for nazis? More than 3 days notice? I believe it's time for you to go back into your padded room now. Go back to your "happy place".
I take it that you've always had trouble being around people and functioning in public. Don't worry, Carty will have Toledo just about deserted by the time his term is up. You and him can then sit by the waterfront and feel safe together.

posted by tommy1 on Feb 11, 2008 at 08:51:50 pm     #

Hurray! Hiz Honor Carty Saves Downtown Toledo! OH! The marines are on our side. Another embarrassing National Toledo headline brought to us by our Ego enhanced Mayor.

Carty Finkbeiner should resign now for creating an image of Toledo citizens and our town that will not be laughed off like all of his other baffoons!

This one is really a Crying Shame. Emotions, loyalty to our soldiers and country are as high as it gets across this country.

As usual, Carty stands by his decision, citing public fear of soldiering in downtown. Mr. Finkbeiner...it is scary! We're in a State of War in Iraq. The exercises are a reflection of the intensity felt in our country. But, Carty, did you forget...THESE SOLDIERS ARE ON OUR SIDE! YOU MADE A RASH, IMPULSIVE EGOTISTICAL DECISION...AGAIN! Of course, WQSPD can always be counted on to garner sympathy for Carty by sensationlizing the lowest denominator, most base level of the Mayor's mistake by making it a personal attack on Carty's loyalty to the United States.

Carty was already in "Intelligent" trouble. He has proven he is out of the loop with his own town's security and itinerary. Any "shock" to seeing Marines in downtown could have been averted with any number of community awareness outlets.

He has turned a positive National image event into an emotional, public relations nightmare. Once again Cary Finkbeiner's ego driven ideas have cost Toledo. This time it has hit a common chord of dismay. Shame on you Carty Finkbeiner. Not for your disloyalty to America, but for your ego driven decision making in the name of Toledo! Go! Now!

posted by HappyBadger on Feb 11, 2008 at 09:04:59 pm     #

all i can say is farty is an utter f*ing moron!

posted by tm2 on Feb 11, 2008 at 09:11:45 pm     #

Hey, the poeple voted him in for a second time, they asked for Carty and they got him. But I wouldn't let 200 guys run around firing full auto blanks with only 3 days notice. Your post sounds a lot more manic than mine, you can share the room next to me. I actually like people, even Carty in his forceful execution of matters to get things done is preferable to a mayor who does nothing.

Good for Carty, 3 days is not enough notice.

posted by prime3end on Feb 11, 2008 at 10:21:24 pm     #

This is going to be VERY easy.

EVERYONE who sided with Finkbeiner in this situtaion is AN IDIOT.

No, I am not going to cite sources, or tell you where the links are, or bother to correct you.

If you sided with Finkbeiner in this instance ...

YOU

ARE

AN

IDIOT.

If you have sided with Finkbeiner, you define the very nature of an idiot, and only exist because of the kindness of others.

With dismay,

AirTrainer

posted by AirTrainer on Feb 11, 2008 at 10:29:53 pm     #

Wow, again airtrainer you amaze the world with your powers of reason and communication. Is Carty your daddy? :-)

posted by prime3end on Feb 11, 2008 at 11:37:34 pm     #

hey prime3end, there's a chapstick sale at walgreens. You should be needing some for all the carty butt-kissing you're doing. Is Carty your husband?

posted by tommy1 on Feb 12, 2008 at 12:14:35 am     #

"Ok jr, not bushesque, but carty hating perhaps?"

I despise Carty's incompetence and the fact that Toledo is so ass-backwards he got elected to a third term, which is also funny and embarrassing.

2005 mayoral election results
Carty Finkbeiner	47,351	61%
Jack Ford	29,169	38%

I think Carty's / Toledo's handling of the Marines is frigging hilarious. It's also hysterical that some on Toledo City Council and Pete Gerken are trying to smooth things over as if they are somehow more enlightened than Carty. Come on. They're all part of the same political compost heap.

• Here's why other communities laugh at Toledo
• The City Council Circus Continues

I like dark humor, and that's what this Carty vs. Marines issue is. This week's local political episode is morbidly funny. It's tough to make this stuff up. Someone should produce a weekly political TV comedy show based upon Toledo-area public officials. I say, lighten up and enjoy the ride because who knows what kind of crap may come out next.

I saw this photo posted at Swamp Bubbles. This is the best thing I've heard, seen, or read about the latest episode of Leave it to Carty. How do you not laugh at this?

Drift back for a moment to the olden days of just over three years ago. Excerpts from a Dec 16, 2004 Toledo Talk posting titled Carty Finkbeiner lovefest :

This week on the Finkbeiner Radio Network formerly known as WSPD, Carty discussed how to take Toledo to the promise land. And it seems a lot of people bought into Carty's snake oil sales pitch. It's amazing how easily some people can be duped. Time doesn't heal wounds as much as it makes people stupid because they forget.

Officially, Carty hasn't announced he is running for Mayor. It's still up in the air. Bullshit. He's running. Carty just wants people to beg. Like any politician, he craves the attention. He needs his ego satisfied. He wants to feel needed.

In past Toledo City Paper's Best OFs, Carty has been voted a local hero, a local zero, and most embarrassing.

From the latest Toledo City Paper Best of Toledo issue, which came out Jan 23, 2008 :

• Person You Love to Hate : Mayor, Carty Finkbeiner
• Person You Hate to Love : Mayor Carty Finkbeiner
• Person in Need of a Reality Show : Mayor Carty Finkbeiner
• Politician in Need of a Makeover : Mayor: Carty Finkbeiner

The dude has staying power.

That December 2004 Toledo Talk posting contained a link to a July 2003 Toledo Blade story which discussed favorable ratings :

Mr. Ford received the most "favorable" responses with 61 percent of the respondents rating him that way. Former Mayor Carty Finkbeiner had a 53 percent favorable rating, followed by Mr. Silverman with 44 percent, Superintendent Eugene Sanders with 43 percent, the Toledo Area Chamber of Commerce and other business leaders with 42 percent, members of the school board with 34 percent, and leaders of the AFL-CIO at 27 percent.

From a Mar 12, 2007 Toledo Blade story :

More than 54 percent of likely voters in Toledo hold an unfavorable opinion of Mr. Finkbeiner, according to a citywide Blade/Zogby International poll. Fewer than one in four say they would re-elect Mr. Finkbeiner in 2009.

I wonder if the Blade will conduct that poll again in a few weeks?

posted by jr on Feb 12, 2008 at 01:53:27 am     #

what is really sad, is that the last election people were so against Ford that they actually elected Carty again. Is there no better choice out there? I smell campaign next time for me!

posted by tommy1 on Feb 12, 2008 at 02:09:31 am     #

I would really like to see what the actual lead time was in the city knowing of this. It happens every year there, and I am sure military planning will take a time to where the city will know well in advance of 3 days. More than likely it was probably an issue of a staffer messed up and didn't give Carty the right date, after knowing for months, or Carty in his lala land was worried that the half empty downtown would be hampered with the Marines in town.

Either way you just have to laugh at everyone in Toledo for this. You are the reason he is back in office...well 60% of you. Granted not everyone voted, which just means you are even more at fault. The attitude and perspective in Toledo needs to change or it will continue to be the rusted buckle in the rust belt. People are always crying for a way the federal government can fix things, instead of getting off their (your) ass and doing something about it.

About a week ago in the editorial section of the Blade, someone was complaining about air service at Express Airport. They demanded that the federal government re-regulate the industry to bring air service back. Sorry bucko. Akron, Fort Wayne, Lansing, Flint, Dayton, Rockford, etc...are all growing by thinking outside the box on how to attract new air service. The Toledo Port just continues to do the same old "find someone to blame other than us" game and the wheels just keep spinning in the mud.

posted by JustaSooner on Feb 12, 2008 at 02:40:10 am     #

TPD had known the Marines were coming for over a month. I dont' know where someone is getting '3 days'.

Whether 'prior notice' was 3 days or over a month has nothing to do with it. As I said in a previous post, King Carty was against the Marine maneuvers when he was in office before - when he went toe-to-toe with Chief Smith. The King didn't like the Marines then - he doesn't like them now.

Go downtown on a bitter cold February weekend and count the folks on the street. You won't need more than your 10 fingers. Carty's "scaring the people" is nothing more than a thinly veiled excuse. The SOB seems to think we've got STUPID written on our foreheads.

posted by GraphicsGuy on Feb 12, 2008 at 04:57:00 am     #

Tommy, such nasty talk. I've never met your mayor. But it appears he has left some terrible mark on you. Is that an assprint on your forehead?

posted by prime3end on Feb 12, 2008 at 10:09:14 am     #

yawn. Is that all you got?

posted by tommy1 on Feb 12, 2008 at 12:29:15 pm     #

A couple years ago the Neo-nazi group led by Bill White was allowed to rally in Toledo. We had to 'honor their constitutional right of freedom of speech'. I feel that Marine Company-A from Grand Rapids should be re-invited to Toledo for urban maneuvers. Otherwise, it would be an unpatriotic slap in the face. This is the kind of crap that anarchistic groups gloat over.

posted by flinty on Feb 12, 2008 at 02:32:03 pm     #

so just give the Marines nazi uniforms and all will be well?

posted by billy on Feb 12, 2008 at 03:18:43 pm     #

...is anybody else wondering why a Marine detail out of Grand Rapids, MI has to drive all the way to Toledo for urban exercises? Why not train in downtown Grand Rapids? That's where they're stationed after all. Or for that matter, why not train in Muskegon, Kalamazoo, Flint, Gary IN or Lansing? Why guzzle all that gas to come here? Hell, Chicago is closer than us, and Detroit would be a better training grounds than Toledo considering its state of disrepair.

posted by timault on Feb 12, 2008 at 06:48:10 pm     #

I believe that Toledo offers the landscape that is representative of most city layouts. Large buildings, waterway, bridges, and a somewhat complex street layout. I know Grand Rapids don't have the tall buildings or same number of roads, besides, I don't think they would get as much press from the mayors of those cities.

posted by tommy1 on Feb 12, 2008 at 07:09:42 pm     #

Maybe we should call the air force in to practice too. We could call it urban renewal.

posted by prime3end on Feb 12, 2008 at 07:26:37 pm     #

I saw this photo posted at Swamp Bubbles. This is the best thing I've heard, seen, or read about the latest episode of Leave it to Carty. How do you not laugh at this?

I am glad you enjoyed the pic JR. I couldn't resist putting it out there. :)

posted by KraZyKat on Feb 12, 2008 at 07:35:30 pm     #

It could have been worse, probably not this bad.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/9056473/detail.html?subid=22100484&qs=1;bp=t
Mayor Won't Give Dead Marine's Money Back

posted by charlatan on Feb 12, 2008 at 10:46:05 pm     #

Feb 12, 2008 story in Grand Rapids :

Council members wanted to know when the city knew the Marines were coming, but Public Safety Director Dave Moebius wasn't sure. Moebius was filling in for the mayor, who is on vacation.

Carty was on vacation Tuesday afternoon? Well, a holiday weekend is coming up, so maybe Carty got started early. I'm sure Carty's "vacation" was planned long ago, unless Carty is pulling a Kwame Kilpatrick and going into hiding.

posted by jr on Feb 13, 2008 at 12:35:17 pm     #

Feb 13, 2008 Toledo Blade "Maumee Dearest" cartoon titled - Carty and the Marines

posted by jr on Feb 13, 2008 at 12:37:16 pm     #

Excerpts from a Feb 13, 2008 Toledo Blade editorial titled Semper Carty

ONCE again - it happens way too often - Mayor Carty Finkbeiner has managed to embarrass himself and the city he so zealously represents.

Indeed, with sniping from the ubiquitous Internet blogosphere, Mr. Finkbeiner has made Toledo the subject of national derision by abruptly turning away a detachment of U.S. Marines that had arranged to conduct training exercises in urban warfare in the downtown last weekend.

This was a public relations debacle that could have been headed off were it not for inexplicably poor communications inside city government, plus the intransigence of a mayor with a long history of shooting from the lip, who rarely admits mistakes, and who reflexively digs in his heels when challenged.

His Honor's response was pure Carty: Rather than graciously admitting his error, he called anyone who questioned his loyalty to the military and love of country a "baboon."

Neither Toledo City Council nor the Lucas County commissioners have helped the situation either. The political posturing of some members of Council has been more than a little transparent. And the commissioners' attempt to mend fences by offering gift cards for visits to Toledo by the Marines and their families seemed foolish.

What this incident boils down to is yet another example of Carty's "Ready, fire, aim!" approach to management. Like - can it ever be topped?- the idea of moving deaf people out near the airport. Once again, the whole city is made to look the fool because of the mayor's lack of judgment and unhealthy obsession with always being in control.

Without thinking, Mr. Finkbeiner treated the Marines as an enemy to be vanquished, with all the patriotic connotations in this post-9/11, war-torn world. He should know by now that sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.

Failing that, he needed to remember that the mayor is responsible for everything that happens on his watch. A quick acceptance of responsibility and a sincere apology would have gone a long way toward ameliorating the negative national attention focused on Toledo.

Will the Blade be accused of being negative and piling on?

posted by jr on Feb 13, 2008 at 12:51:05 pm     #

Probably the only time I will somewhat agree with what the Blade writes. God I must be getting sick or something.

posted by JustaSooner on Feb 13, 2008 at 01:05:06 pm     #

One would think that this is directed at Toledo (and should be!) but it was taken at Berzerkly, California!

Take note, Carty!

Gold Star Mother Debbie Lee, whose son was the first Navy Seal killed in Iraq, delivered a powerful short speech to the Berkeley City Council

posted by GraphicsGuy on Feb 24, 2008 at 11:09:24 am     #

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