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As long as my Precious Moments collection remains intact.

Propaganda, misinformation, sticking to the sales pitch, trimming the marks, normalizing blind obedience is more effective than force.

Why do you think so many people do so many things counter to their own self-interest and that of their children, family, and friends? It's not force.

posted by charlatan on Feb 13, 2008 at 02:53:34 am     #

Duh. They've already laid the groundwork for overturning Posse Comitatus. Training the military in urban warfare is a specific and necessary goal for using them in the USA against the citizens. They've also and already put the feelers out for using the military to conduct gun confiscation (as we saw in NOLA after Katrina).

When they start coming for the guns that in the hands of citizens, then you know the real revolution is at hand.

posted by GuestZero on Feb 13, 2008 at 10:08:52 am     #

"When they start coming for the guns that in the hands of citizens, then you know the real revolution is at hand."

What a joke...

The gun owners are the first to give up all the other Bill or Rights...

They won't take your guns, they'll just take everthing else and the gun owners won't care, they'll be ready to "take back America".

posted by SensorG on Feb 13, 2008 at 03:10:28 pm     #

starling02, I know I don't have to tell you about the growing Nanny State, which is being promoted and accepted by many citizens without help from the military. In my opinion, the Nanny State is far worse and more disturbing than a couple hundred soldiers training for one or two days a year in downtown Toledo. If 50,000 soldiers were "training" in Toledo for a whole month, then you might have something. I've never seen the Marines conduct maneuvers in my West Toledo neighborhood, trying to get me used to being under military rule.

Think about it for a second. Last weekend, Carty thwarted the military. starling02, if what you're hinting at was remotely true, the Marines would have ran over Carty last weekend.

Aren't you more concerned about the fact that last December nine Toledo police officers assisted the local health department in raiding Platinum Showgirls because of a report of someone smoking? And what about the fact that Toledo government is depending upon lawbreakers to help balance the budget?

We're more likely to be shaken down by a tyrannical mayor and violated by idiotic legislation enacted by an imbecilic city and county government than by the military. And let's not forget the failed Toledo Public School system, which is truly something to be alarmed about when you consider the millions of dollars dumped into that system. And really, the entire U.S. public school system needs to do much better.

Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study. Their 2003 report was released in 2005. The report of their 2007 data will not be released until December 2008. No hurry, guys.

October 2005 news story :

The TIMSS study is a comprehensive study done on a four-year cycle that measures the progress of students in math and science in 46 participating countries. It evaluates fourth, eighth and 12th-graders through questionnaires, tests and extensive videotaping of classroom environments.

The TIMSS results reveal a lot about the weaknesses of the U.S. education system, said David Marsh, a professor at the University of Southern California Rossier School of Education. “In fourth grade, American kids do above average internationally. By eighth grade, they slip a bit, and by 12th-grade, they’ve slipped a lot,” Marsh said. “We’re the only country that slides down that much from fourth to 12th grade.”

In a 2003 study conducted by UNICEF that took the averages from five different international education studies, the researchers ranked the United States No. 18 out of 24 nations in terms of the relative effectiveness of its educational system. Although studies have attempted to illuminate the reasons for this downward slide, no conclusive explanations have been drawn. The UNICEF report finds that educational success or failure is not directly linked to funding, and that there is no clear link between student-to-teacher ratios and test results.

By international standards, the United States spends a lot of money on education, and in terms of class sizes, a lot of countries that do well have larger class sizes than the United States, Marsh said. Marsh said that he attributes U.S. rankings to a different set of reasons —namely, the way material is being taught in classrooms.

“The United States focuses more on procedure, and we try to teach many topics fast. Other countries tend to break topics up and go much more in-depth. They work on the concept, not just the procedure,” Marsh said. “Countries that did well in rankings focused on teaching the ideas and taught a few topics a year. Kids will learn what a fraction really is, not just how to add or subtract them.” When kids are taught the procedure, and not the concept behind a subject, they tend to forget more quickly, he said.

posted by jr on Feb 13, 2008 at 05:42:28 pm     #

jr - the nanny state scares me more. On the one hand, marine urban training probably won't amount to much "yet". On the other hand, it's that "YET" that disturbs me. Just the wording of it "urban warfare training" disturbs me. Ayn Rand said "The only proper purpose of a government is to protect man's rights, which means: to protect him from physical violence... The only proper functions of a government are: the police, to protect you from criminals; the army, to protect you from foreign invaders; and the courts, to protect your property and contracts from breach or fraud by others, and to settle disputes by rational rules, according to objective law."
and
" There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. When there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."

Bill Maher said "New rule: 'Kidiots' Leave the children behind. At least until they learn something. A new study has shown that half of American high schools agree that newspapers should only be able to publish government-approved material. Almost one out of five said people should not be allowed to voice unpopular opinions… This is the first generation after September 11th, who discovered news during a 'watch what you say' administration… George W. Bush once asked, 'is our children learning.' No, they isn't. A better question would be, 'is our teacher's teaching?"

That said, I honestly don't like what's happening to our country. It doesn't even resemble the country I grew up in anymore. People are too easily led & willing to let the govt. make decisions for them. I am against bans or censorship of any kind. And while I do respect those who fight for our country - it does not automatically make me accept what our govt orders the military to do. Our military are following orders. I asked what this "urban warfare training" was training them FOR, what instances would it be used FOR? And so far, nobody has explained this. It has nothing to do with the war in Iraq - it has more to do (I"m afraid) with the perception of the 'war at home'. In which case, our military is not supposed to even be involved unless it's the National Guard. When the marines & army (and working together, and sometimes with the local police) are sent to cities to enforce laws to control the masses - it worries me.

posted by starling02 on Feb 13, 2008 at 06:23:48 pm     #

"They that can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety."
Benjamin Franklin

posted by starling02 on Feb 13, 2008 at 06:55:22 pm     #

I'm sure many of you assume I am a conspiracy theorist - a paranoid whacko, and I'm also sure I don't have all the facts about any of what I posted. I honestly don't know what to think. Like Katie - I am furious our country has come to this. On the other hand - perhaps it's always been this way, just not exposed. I realize that I have probably spent most of my life blissfully ignorant of the ugliness that goes on in our govt. & maybe this is why it's hitting me hard, between the eyes now. But I honestly don't know enough to say that I trust, or don't trust these goings on. I heard on the radio the other day that of all the Muslims (in our country), about 5 percent were of the militant mindset who believes Americans deserve to die. That didn't sound like very many to me, until it was pointed out the huge number of Muslims in this country/state/Lucas County - and 5 percent of those numbers can translate into a lot of potential for disaster. Having said that - IF these Marine "urban warfare training" missions are about fighting this type of terrorism on our soil - then I understand it better. Somebody explained to me that while they probably have urban training settings on base, they also need to train in unfamiliar settings. That did make sense to me. But from what I read about Texas & Baltimore, I can also see where this 'urban warfare training' can be used to contain entire towns - for their own good. City council in Baltimore explained that it could mean the marines confiscating citizens' guns, curfews, limited numbers of people allowed on the streets, the shutting down of businesses in the evenings, etc. to prevent crime. THAT reeks of martial law to me, and it is not the job of our military to do that. As far as I know, Baltimore did not approve martial law - yet. But will the day come when towns will resort to this? THAT is my fear. I fear the day when we see soldiers with rifles walking our streets, searching cars & homes - confining people. IF we were hit by a group of militant shooters or bombers - then yes, I can see why it'd be necessary. I guess I wonder what would most likely happen first though - the marines enforcing martial law because of terrorists in Toledo or Lucas County? Or, the marines enforcing martial law here or anywhere in this country to control the citizens or cut down on crime or whatever reason they may need. I honestly don't know, which is why I put all this out here in the first place - I'm asking questions. But don't presume that because I have doubts & questions that I am against our troops or the good they've done, or the prices they've paid. My heart aches for the enlisted a lot, because they have to follow orders - even if they die doing it. Even if they don't agree with the orders. I heard somebody on the radio say that if we require our enlisted men & women to be in Iraq, then have the decency to give them the equipment they need to do the job right - or do he decent thing & bring them home. THAT, I agree with. I watch them on the news & it breaks my heart - they look like children in uniform. But it's always been that way - kids joining the army only to discover the ugliness that is war. As for the "urban warfare training' - I guess I will just assume it's to ensure our safety if we get hit by a terrorist, and hope that our military & govt. doesn't use it for other reasons

posted by starling02 on Feb 13, 2008 at 11:46:01 pm     #

A conspiracy theorist, no. Most agencies are open about it just maybe in more palatable language.

It's a nice way to mariginalize people like calling them liberal, right wing, communist, socialist, the not with me you're against me bullshit...

The US might allow dissenting opinion, but they sure know how to suppress it.

Something like 22% of the US is employed in supervision/policing jobs. That's a lot of overhead, a lot of distrust, a lot of disutility.

posted by charlatan on Feb 14, 2008 at 02:19:21 pm     #

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