Toledo Talk - NORTHERN ILLINOIS SHOOTING

From KraZyKat's workspace

NORTHERN ILLINOIS SHOOTING

Here we go again.

GOD BLESS THE VICTIMS AND FAMILIES
Our Prayers and thoughts are with you

Here is the latest as I hear it...

Five dead, including the gunman, after campus shooting at Northern Illinois University. Six people are still in critical condition. University Police Chief Donald Grady said police had identified the gunman, who he said was not a student at NIU but may have been a student at another school.

Grady would not name the gunman, who shot and killed himself on the stage in Cole Hall, which doubles as an auditorium.

At least 17 gunshot victims were taken to Kishwaukee Community Hospital in DeKalb, according to spokeswoman Theresa Komitis.

Kishwaukee Community Hospital spokeswoman Sharon Emanuelson said that 18 people from the shooting had been treated at the hospital. Most had gunshot wounds to the head. Four were critical and two had been transferred: One to OSF St. Anthony’s Rockford and to another hospital.

http://daily-journal.com/bloggers/breakingnews/?p=3614&referer...
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- Just the KAT, thinking out loud again. :)

created by KraZyKat on Feb 14, 2008 at 10:57:59 pm
updated by KraZyKat on Feb 14, 2008 at 11:35:01 pm Comments: 24

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Comments ... #

The cynical side of me says pharmaceuticals and media sensationalism are probably contributing factors.

The other side wishes people would address the root of these acts of desperation.

posted by charlatan on Feb 14, 2008 at 11:15:12 pm     #

A tragic and unpreventable mess... My heart goes out to the victims and their families.

Here's the main forum for NIU athletics if anyone's interested in expressing condolences or learning more.

-Dan

posted by photodan on Feb 15, 2008 at 12:46:11 am     #

Such a senseless horror wrought by the deranged former NIU student Steven Kazmierczak, and I struggle to understand the thought processes behind this bastard's decision to target innocent bystanders.

As someone who spends a great deal of time on college campuses as an instructor and doctoral student, I am especially saddened that colleges seem to have become the destination du jour for murderous psychopaths. These should be places of academic pursuits, individual growth, and social networking, but campuses seem to be gaining reputations as killing zones these days.

Sad, sad, sad.

posted by historymike on Feb 15, 2008 at 08:40:33 am     #

What is wrong with our country that dozens of students are gunned down every year and NO ONE DOES ANYTHING ABOUT IT? I'm not saying the answer is stricter gun control, concealed carry laws, metal detectors at the door or anything else. I am just saying that the lack of any national dialogue after one of these shootings is reprehensible. Sitting back and just saying that this is sad is a cop out. Floods, earthquakes and tornadoes are unpreventable and happen the world over. Gunmen walking into schools, malls or churches and opening fire on innocent bystanders on a regular basis happens only in the United States. Why?

posted by Ace_Face on Feb 15, 2008 at 09:45:48 am     #

Oh really? It happens every five minutes in the Middle East!

posted by CharlieA-Z on Feb 15, 2008 at 12:32:15 pm     #

Charlie, I don't think that it is an apt comparison. The suicide bombings in the Middle East, as reprehensible as they are, are carried out in a twisted attempt to advance a political or religious viewpoint. Young Arabs don't blow themselves up in a Tel Aviv marketplace because of all the rich, phony kids in their high school. Plus, you know it is risky standing in line at an Iraqi police station. You shouldn't have to fee that way in an Illinois geology class....

posted by Ace_Face on Feb 15, 2008 at 03:54:04 pm     #

...because of all the rich, phony kids in their high school.

Interesting perspective Ace.

First, why do you ask why this happens if you already know?

Second, how is it that rich, phony kids in high school cause others to go on shooting sprees?

posted by babbleman on Feb 15, 2008 at 04:14:33 pm     #

And also, Ace, what is the consequences on shooting sprees if you mixup the two variables, rich and phony?

Like, what if you go to school with a bunch of poor, phony kids? Does that compel you to kill people?

Or what if you go to school with a bunch of rich kids, but they aren't phony?

posted by babbleman on Feb 15, 2008 at 04:18:05 pm     #

First, why do you ask why this happens if you already know?

I didn't say I know why this phenomenon happens.

Second, how is it that rich, phony kids in high school cause others to go on shooting sprees?

I don't know. Why don't you ask the Columbine or VA Tech shooters. All I'm saying is that was the reason they stated in their suicide notes.

posted by Ace_Face on Feb 15, 2008 at 05:50:08 pm     #

how is it that rich, phony kids in high school cause others to go on shooting sprees?

Why don't you ask the Columbine or VA Tech shooters. All I'm saying is that was the reason they stated in their suicide notes.

Well, then, maybe its not so different from suicide bombers in the Middle East. You say that those in the Middle East are advancing religious or political viewpoints. If you are right about rich kids being the motivation for VA and Columbine it looks like they are advancing a political viewpoint of class warfare.

posted by babbleman on Feb 15, 2008 at 05:57:21 pm     #

Let's back up a little. I am emphatically saying that I don't know why these kids massacre other kids. They state in their suicide notes that they hate "rich kids," "fakes," "jocks," etc. Do you think the reason that they are willing to gun down classmates is to advance a political viewpoint of class warfare? Or could it just be that we live in a violence-saturated society where everyone needs to protect their "rep" and access to firearms is easy for everyone regardless of age, mental capacity or criminal background?

Genuine responses appreciated, let's not go down that road of how the poor are dragging down the rich. Save that for the John Birch Society meetings.

posted by Ace_Face on Feb 15, 2008 at 06:13:54 pm     #

I'm not talking about anyone being dragged down.

I was simply pointing out that, based on your reference to VA and Columbine, there appeared to be a heightened sensitivity to relative wealth.

This seemed similar to me to the Middle Eastern suicide bomber's heightened sense of morality about Western mini-skirts or whatever the hell their complaint is this week.

posted by babbleman on Feb 15, 2008 at 06:36:02 pm     #

Suicide bombings in the Middle East are supported by the Imam and other followers of Islam and are carried out by delusional martyrs against devil worshipping barbarians. School shootings in the US are not.

The only real motivations behind these shootings are mental illness. Depression and a complete loss of hope for a better future coupled with mental and, in some cases, physical pain drive the perpetrator into a corner, where his choices are fight or flight. Flight equates to suicide.

One thing I've noticed is that the targets of choice are almost always unarmed, and so unable to defend themselves. A notable exception to this was the attempted massacre at a Church building in Colorado, where the shooter was stopped by a gun wielding parishioner. I dimly recall there were similar incidents where the murderer was less than successful due to armed defenders.

So, I suppose if you want to stay safe from deranged murderers, pack your pistol with you.

posted by madjack on Feb 15, 2008 at 08:20:11 pm     #

Maybe NIU should implement a DOUBLEPLUS GUN BAN. There is simply too high a change at present that a deranged potential shooter just didn't get the memo that there was a gun ban on campus.

Of course, every time I see one of those "no guns" signs, I know that my chances of shootin' fish in a barrel have increased.

Seriously now, until the US Constitution regains credibility with the People of the United States, there's nothing to be done with handling crazed shootings, or ANY shooting, for that matter. Disarmed people cannot shoot back when attacked.

posted by GuestZero on Feb 15, 2008 at 11:21:39 pm     #

P.S. Try talking to some Liberals about these school shootings. They have a well-practiced meme going around that says "there's nothing an armed resister could have done" to stop or even lessen the attack. Arguing against that is like proving a negative, so the Liberal attack on gun ownership continues apace (regardless of what Chris claims).

posted by GuestZero on Feb 15, 2008 at 11:24:12 pm     #

Won't a deranged individual bent on causing this kind of suicidal massacre always have the element of surprise?

posted by holland on Feb 15, 2008 at 11:33:08 pm     #

37 dead in bombing in Pakistan election office today. So there is a difference to the dead, if they expected trouble vs. if they didn't? What about the security guard than put down a shooter in church recently? Come on-this latest shooter by all reports calmly and methodically shot-reloaded-shot, knowing he didn't have anything to fear from any sort of meaningful resistance. Just like Richard Speck when he slowly killed EIGHT nurses, one at a time, in Chicago many years ago. At some point you're going to need armed guards, or citizens.

posted by CharlieA-Z on Feb 16, 2008 at 11:20:48 am     #

They may have the element of surprise holland, but if their victims were armed their number could very well be less.

For my part I think part of our problem today is Drs want to medicate the hell out of everyone.

"What,?You're depressed"? here take these. "You can't sleep?" "Take these". "Can't stay awake" take these, it goes on and on.

It seems that once upon a time the human mind was able to work out any problems it's owner had, now it needs a crutch?

Your kid squirms in school? Ritalin! When we were kids if you squirmed maybe you got a whack on the ass and you stopped squirming.

Look at Heath Ledger, young, rich, successful, apparently healthy, yet he had all those drugs prescribed for him?

posted by JeepMaker on Feb 16, 2008 at 11:31:38 am     #

I knew it was just a matter of time before GZ stopped by to say that if only someone was packing heat, this wouldn't have happened. But what kind of f--ked up society are we living in students or churchgoers should have to even consider carrying a firearm into the classroom or church in order to remain safe? I don't want to rehash gun control arguments, that has been done ad nauseum in other posts. JeepMaker has contributed his thoughts on an overmedicated society contributing to problem. Anyone else? Video games? Broken homes? Why does this keep happening in America?

posted by Ace_Face on Feb 16, 2008 at 12:52:20 pm     #

Halo! We're living in the exact type of society you alluded to-f**ked up to the point that we have choices like social re-engineering, re-writing the Constitution, or keeping a small device in your pocket to prevent you or your loved ones from becoming the lead story on the 6 O'clock news. You ponder-I carry.

posted by CharlieA-Z on Feb 16, 2008 at 02:13:42 pm     #

Holland, the element of surprise is a CONSTANT, regardless if the surrounding people are armed or not.

In fact, by insisting people be DISARMED, as we can see, people go into shock when someone eventually brandishes a firearm. Shock = pause = more victims ready to be slaughtered.

We need to dismiss all those unconstitutional laws and rules against gun ownership and carrying, and then bring weapon culture back into the schools (whose Liberals kicked the Constitution out of, long ago). Every high school in Toledo should have a rifle team that can letter in the sport just like the footballers do, for example. We train children to anticipate the exercise of adult rights ... except for GUNS. How fucked up is that?!?! Did somebody repeal that Second Amendment when we weren't looking?

As for Ace_Face ... you're only indulging in the well-practiced meme from the Liberals that says that an armed resister couldn't have done anything. That's absurd, since the alternative is UNARMED resisters, who are basically just cannon fodder. Tossing people into the path of gunfire is the very definition of stupidity, yet you are effectively arguing for just that. What's the new paradigm, Ace? Do we just hope the assailant runs out of bullets?

Now Ace is going to take the next Liberal meme into play, and assert that we need to pass laws against the size of ammo clips and against the sale of ammo. Gun bans never work ... and they are UNCONSTITUTIONAL at any rate.

posted by GuestZero on Feb 16, 2008 at 02:37:39 pm     #

I went to Sylvania High in the late 1960s. We did have a rifle team. And of course, there were never any incidents of any sort-even though everyone knows guns cause crime.

posted by CharlieA-Z on Feb 16, 2008 at 07:45:33 pm     #

You wingnuts are still ignoring my question:

Why do mass school shootings happen in the United States?

I know you'd rather, to paraphrase Charlie A-Z, "pack rather than ponder" but why do people keep shooting up US classrooms and churches. You believe the only reason is because they don't have to be afraid of an armed resister?

posted by Ace_Face on Feb 17, 2008 at 02:17:26 pm     #

so the Liberal attack on gun ownership continues apace (regardless of what Chris claims)

Ha ha...nice working with you.

Actually I was waiting for babbleman to blame the shooting on some "liberal" mentality.

posted by Chris99 on Feb 17, 2008 at 02:51:07 pm     #