Toledo Talk - Would You Kill A Cat?

From Kooz's workspace

Would You Kill A Cat?

I have stray cat problem in my neighborhood. About twelve of them who dump about 25-30 piles of crap in my yard a week. The cats are scabby, diseased and really nasty. My neighborhood smells of cat urine. To save a lot of time...there's no need to reccommend products. I have researched every product known to man and none of them work. Even store owners will tell you they don't work.

Anyways, when I tell people about the problem, I'm amazed at how many people say to poison them or shoot them...including some other means of death. I hate cats....ecspecially these cats....but, the thought of killing them never crossed my mind. It seems there's quite of few Toledoans willing to kill cats.

created by Kooz on Mar 26, 2008 at 03:37:17 pm
updated by Kooz on Mar 26, 2008 at 03:38:34 pm Comments: 36

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yes

posted by upso on Mar 26, 2008 at 03:50:25 pm     #

It seems there's quite of few Toledoans willing to kill cats.

That's because there's so many Toledoans willing to kill human unborn babies. Then there's the PETA folks who would rather you kill the human babies and never kill a cat. Why? Because that would just be cruel to kill it not give that cute little kitty cat a fighting chance at Life, Liberty & the Pursuit of Happiness. Cats are people too!

Call the Lucas County Dog Warden. It's their job to humanely trap these critters. Perhaps they will eventually end up in a good home.

(Just like babies when we don't kill them)

Sorry folks, I couldn't resist. Go ahead, let the hating begin against the mean and nasty pro-life lady.

posted by FatBabe44 on Mar 26, 2008 at 04:08:39 pm     #

I'm with you on the pro-life thing (talking about babies). I did contact the Humane Society...they will come get them....but get this...they will neuter them and them drop them back off in our neighborhood. Silly stuff.

posted by Kooz on Mar 26, 2008 at 05:10:21 pm     #

Only if I was hungry enough, or if the cat pulled a .38 on me and demanded my wallet.

(pause)

Agreed about calling the Dog Warden, especially since they jacked up dog license fees this year - I am sure they can afford a litle OT to de-felinize the area around Chez Kooz. Chances are you also have an abandoned property or unused garage that is home base to the felines, or some kind of warped cat-collector type nearby. Take a stroll through the neighborhood and see if you can identify the source of the problem.

There is always the trap-them-yourself method. Get a cheap cage, a pair of thick gloves, and some cat food. Catch a few and dump them off at the Humance Society or Dog Warden.

posted by historymike on Mar 26, 2008 at 05:11:58 pm     #

Thanks History Mike,
Actually, I snooped around and found out my next door neighbor is feeding them. Set-up quite a feeding area for them. I know a vet who said they're crapping in my yard because I'm not the one feeding them. I talked to the neighbor and she doesn't seem willing to stop.

posted by Kooz on Mar 26, 2008 at 05:24:53 pm     #

It is NOT the responsibility of the Lucas County Dog Warden to handle, capture or administer aid to any feline. There are no laws requiring the County to mitigate the feral, or non feral, feline population. There are aid organizations in the region that do offer substantial feline humane services. All are dependant upon donations. They are limited to what they can do by financial considerations and their individual mission statements. They are The Toledo Humane Society, Paws and Whiskers Cat Shelter, Toledo Animal Shelter Association, Save-A-Pet. and Planned Pethood.

Ohio DOES animal curelty laws, among which killing a cat is definitely one of them.

I strongly agree that the need to reduce the feral pet population is greater than what the local agencies can handle. The organizations need more volunteers and more donations. The general population needs better education in caring for a cat and the value of spaying and neutering.
And speaking of education FatBabe44, why don't you get your right-to-life head out of your ass and get some education about a subject before you proselytize? And oh yeah, can't you stick to the subject of the post without seeing the entire world through the myopic right-to-life lens?

posted by holland on Mar 26, 2008 at 05:26:56 pm     #

fatbabe has never given birth, raised a child or adopted, so her opinions are very biased; to wit: preaching from her soapbox telling other people that they should give birth & raise those unwanted childred. Perhaps if she'd had some of those personal child birth experiences, she'd realize that they also represent a lot of financial burdons & that for at least 18 years, her life would never be her own again - she'd see a loss of 'self' & be thrilled for a 30 minute nap. Motherhood can be a wonderful thing - I do not regret having my kids. But I also know that many of these unwanted pregnancies are unwanted for many reasons that have nothing to do with them just being 'inconvenient'. Sometimes, they can represent the end of a marriage, or loss of a home, or a guaranteed ride on the welfare train. I know too many little kids born into extreme poverty - unwanted pregnancies,most of them; daddy bailed out & never paid child support & these kids live a very hard life. Perhaps fatbabe should take it upon herself to adopt a few of these babies - it'd put a lot more meat into her arguments.

She also seems to presume that all unwanted pregnancies are because people copulated without birth control No birth control is 100 percent effective - I know at least five or six women who got pregnant while using different forms of birth control.

Onto the topic of unwanted cats. I would report anybody for injuring or killing a cat - I don't care what the motivation for doing it is. Those cats are innocents, like it or not. They can all be tracked back to a point in time where somebody tossed cats out (or let them out) without being neutered. My daughter & son (different states) do a lot of cat rescue work, and most vets will spay strays cheap (I heard in Michigan, for about $10 or so). I am not suggesting this person gather up & pay for spaying on all these stray cats (it'd be a very nice thing to do though). But the suggestion of live trapping, and dropping them of at the Humane Society, or Paws & Whiskers, etc. is a good idea. THey will neuter them (or put them humanely to death). But they don't have the funds or space for all the strays to keep them all. I can't fault a neighbor who feeds strays (I do) - cats are hungry too. I mail a big bag of dry cat food to my mom (she lives in a wooded area & my dad would never approve of her feeding stray cats, he is not a cat person). I finally convinced her that stray cats do not eat the birds or mice they kill - unless they are starving. She had a couple of strays show up a couple of winters ago, and she found one frozen to death under her deck. Now she puts out a bit of food every day (my dad doesnt know this). I'd much rather have a cat shit in my yard, then a dog shit in my yard (you'd be amazed at how many dog walkers will stop & let their dogs shit in other people's yards & not clean it up). Anybody who could shoot or kill a cat could probably be capable of other dispicable things, and not anybody I'd want to know. Speaks volumes about somebody's character that they could even talk about killing an animal. Those people frighten the hell out of me.

posted by starling02 on Mar 26, 2008 at 06:24:22 pm     #

Someone killed my cat once by feeding her antifreeze.

A slow, agonizing death. Anyone who could do that to an animal has to be a very sick, twisted individual.

P.S. This did happen in Toledo.

posted by mom2 on Mar 26, 2008 at 06:32:26 pm     #

Holland and Starling said it better than I could - including and emphasizing the comments to FatBabe44.

I advocate spaying and neutering cats and dogs. We have an overpopulation problem and it's only getting worse.

I'm sorry to hear about someone poisoning your cat, Mom2. Do you know who did it?

posted by madjack on Mar 26, 2008 at 06:43:47 pm     #

Cayenne pepper, citrus, or
http://www.scarecrowinfo.com/

posted by charlatan on Mar 26, 2008 at 07:25:21 pm     #

Thanks, Holland, for reminding me about the Dog Warden - my ire at getting hosed on license fees precluded my recollection that they do not deal with cats.

posted by historymike on Mar 26, 2008 at 08:45:00 pm     #

Charlatan's suggestion might be worth a try.

Here's a link to some other ideas on non-lethal cat repellent techniques.

Agreed with the other smart posters who recognize that the failure of cat and dog owners to spay and neuter their pets has created this problem.

posted by historymike on Mar 26, 2008 at 08:47:41 pm     #

KK runs for cover...LOL

Seriously though, I see no problem with putting feral cats down. Shooting them is much quicker and humane then poison and I know of a nice little Sheraton pellet rifle that will do the trick. The problem here is identifying feral cats from someones pet.

I have many feral cats in my neighborhood and have seriously thought about taking em out especially when they fight and cry outside my bedroom window at 4 in the morning.

Feral Cats, Racoons, Posums, Rats = 1 in the same.

posted by KraZyKat on Mar 26, 2008 at 11:29:21 pm     #

Sure, as long as you are a 100% crack shot and they don't run off somewhere and die a slow agonizing death. Or worse you miss and the bullet hits an unintended target. Nice, real nice.

posted by holland on Mar 26, 2008 at 11:36:41 pm     #

Iowa mayor sets bounty on cats
— Rose Hayes (March 13, 2008 03:07 PM)
From Alley Cat Allies:

A town in Iowa has just announced a bounty on outdoor cats. The mayor of Randolph, Iowa, has instituted a $5 bounty payment on the “catching and delivering of live cats to the mayor.”

Once turned in, the cats will be taken to a local vet and killed.

Mayor Vance Trively is encouraging all residents to take part. Any cat who cannot easily be identified as an owned cat will be killed. The plan is inhumane and ineffective, and it could result in the surrendering of neighborhood pets.

As expected, the citizens of Randolph are very concerned about this new plan and have been expressing their views on the community website -- remarking on both the inhumane approach and the danger to town pets.

posted by KraZyKat on Mar 27, 2008 at 12:04:11 am     #

Since when did Animal Control become solely the dog warden? Toledo used to issue cat licenses too along time ago. I guess it was too much and now only accept responsibility for dogs. But I think they are still responsible for all animals in city limit, dont think they can just shrug off the job because they dont wanna.

posted by Linecrosser on Mar 27, 2008 at 02:11:31 am     #

FYI FatBabe: PETA euthanizes a huge percentage of the animals in its care. In 2006, PETA at its headquarters in Virgina euthanized 2,981 animals. They adopted out a grand total of 12. Here is the report they filed with the Virginia Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services, if you would like to see the numbers sourced.

I just tell you this so the next time you would like to wax snarky about animal welfare groups and contrast them with we terrible pro-choice people in some off-topic tangent, you won't look quite so damn silly, because you'll at least have your facts straight.

And to the original question: No, I would not kill a stray or feral cat. A very good friend of mine once spent an entire year trapping a feral colony of cats that hung out near her home, and took them one-by-one as she could afford it to be spayed or neutered and vaccinated, and she then returned each of them to the neighborhood.

It reminded me that I am a pretty good friend-chooser, if I do say so myself.

posted by jmleong on Mar 27, 2008 at 02:17:39 am     #

I find it hard to believe the Dog Warden will dump them back in the neighborhood!

In the State of Ohio, it is legal to shoot, or otherwise kill a feral cat. Depending on where you live, it may not be legal to discharge a firearm - certainly not within any city limits. Poisoning is out! That causes suffering - too inhuman.

And although KK lumps cats in with possums and coons, they are not one in the same. Possums and coons are natural to the area and part of the ecosystem. Cats, however, are not. Leave nature's wild animals alone! WE are the interlopers on THEIR land, NOT the other way around!!!

Sounds like the cats are suffering and very well may be carrying disease. Do them and the other wildlife and kids in the area by getting rid of them. It's not easy for anyone to shoot what's seen as a 'pet', but for the good of the neighborhood, do whatever you feel is necessary.

posted by GraphicsGuy on Mar 27, 2008 at 09:21:51 am     #

I cant help it, we feed our neghborhood strays. HOWEVER, they are only maybe 3 or 4 and they roam a lot, so they only come to our house at night for their midnight snacks. And i've never been left a "package" on the lawn.

posted by tm2 on Mar 27, 2008 at 10:15:22 am     #

kooz, maybe these strays are shitting in your yard because they sense your hatred for them? (joking). I have to wonder how many cats have been shot & left to suffer & die because of bad aims, missed targets, etc. I can see a lot of potential for abuse with the Iowa cat round-up. I can see a lot of people catching any cats, owned or not - just to make a few quick bucks. Few owned cats wear collars I bet. I've spent a small fortune on break-away cat collars, and they all go missing within a few weeks. (Cats need to have break-away collars, because they climb & can end up hanging themselves on their collars.) I don't bother with collars anymore (and yes, my cats are neutered.) If you're too damned lazy to safe-trap these strays, then stop bitching about them. My 85 yr.old dad lives in Grand Rapids, Ohio & he live traps racoons & drives them to a place they can survive in, but won't be a nuisance to people. One raccoon at a time, and they can be large, heavy, mean & spitting. If my 85 yr.old dad can handle this, I'm sure you can handle a few feral cats.

posted by starling02 on Mar 27, 2008 at 01:03:13 pm     #

fatbabe - I've said this before, but it bears repeating. I do not believe in abortion after the first trimester. Yes, I have seen the videos, literature, etc. - however, I don't believe that a fetus under 3 months can be considered a viable life, in that it could not survive outside of the womb on it's own. I also question it's abiltity to feel, emotions or pain under three months. Preferably, nobody would have abortions after the first two months, but realistically, many women don't even know they are pregnant that soon (when the most damage to the fetus can be done due to over the counter meds, alcohol, etc.) If it was a pregnant cat we were talking about, I'd have no problems morally with aborting the kittens while being neutered (we have had that done). Once those kittens are born however (or babies), they are viable lives. I do not believe women should resort to abortion because they are lazy about birth control. However, I would have to question whether it'd be in the best interests of a 14 yr old girl to give birth - to keep the child or give it up for adoption (can be very traumatic for the rest of her life) - it would put huge roadblocks up for that girl, that would affect her entire life. Sometimes, abortion makes sense, like it or not.

posted by starling02 on Mar 27, 2008 at 01:48:55 pm     #

Intersting comments. All I know is...I don't want to kill cats. But that said, I don't want a bunch of cats (with multiple sores on them) crapping in my yard so much that my kids can't play in the yard. I spend nearly 200k on a house...I would like to use my yard. Some of the crap has white things on it...which the vet told me is lice.

I don't see a problem with people in rural areas feeding cats. But people who live in normal neighborhoods (with homes close to eachother) should not feed cats. Catch them and turn them in if necessary.

I tried the pretty much all the repellents and "home remedies" like cayan pepper. None work. I shouldn't have to keep forking out cash when my neighbor could solve the problem by not feeding the things. If she loves cats that much...she should get an indoor cat and then she can feed it all she wants.

posted by Kooz on Mar 27, 2008 at 03:21:23 pm     #

Also, why does the humane society allow cats to run around like crazy...but if you have one stray dog...they or the county will go out and get it right away?

posted by Kooz on Mar 27, 2008 at 03:22:19 pm     #

Kooz, the Lucas County Commissioners have never budgeted any funding for stray felines as they do for dogs. Never. There has never been a State mandate for feline control. The "humane society" has no legislative legal obligation to provide services for cats or dogs. The Toledo Humane Society is a charitable organization, funded by donations and operated by some paid staff and many volunteers. They don't "allow" anything to "run around like crazy". Humans do. And the Humane Society and the other organizations I listed above try to mitigate the harm uninformed humans do when they fail to properly care for their animals, especially the failure to spay or neuter. Why does the County undertake canine enforcement? They are funded by taxpayer money, they have enforcement powers, and the State mandates rabies control measures. I suggest you do two things. First: call your County Commissioners and ask why they don't budget for cats and call the City of Toledo and ask why they don't pass any cat control ordinances. Then secondly, for Pete's sake, volunteer at a humane shelter in the spring kitten season for a week. I dare you.

posted by holland on Mar 27, 2008 at 03:53:02 pm     #

One other little thing I forgot Kooz, that "silly stuff" about returning the spayed or neutered animal back to the neighborhood: Are you volunteering your home to take them in until permanent good homes are found?

I thought so.

posted by holland on Mar 27, 2008 at 04:13:59 pm     #

No, I am not going to bring cats with sores on their eyes, open wounds, lice in their poop, scabs all over their bodies, into my home with my two children. I'm sorry...I am one of those weirdo's who value human life more than animal life.

Yes, I do volunteer my time...to PEOPLE at hospice and several other organizations. I do not wish bad things on animals...but, I'm not going to jeopardize my kids health...and the animal free smell of my home...to help these cats.

posted by Kooz on Mar 27, 2008 at 05:21:36 pm     #

kooz said "I don't see a problem with people in rural areas feeding cats. But people who live in normal neighborhoods (with homes close to eachother) should not feed cats. Catch them and turn them in if necessary" ........ glad to hear you're going to do that. It will set a wonderful example to your kids. Doing that, you will teach your kids compassion, and doing the right thing. What do you suppose you teach your kids by killing cats? Use this as an opportunity for a 'life lesson' for your kids, and they will benefit from it. Kill the cats, and you teach them much different things.

(I don't believe you can see lice in cat shit as 'white things', I don't care what your vet has said. If you see 'white things' in the cat shit, they are most likely maggots that were hatched there after the cat left the droppings. Or perhaps the cats need worming (very cheap & easy to do). But they aren't lice. If you don't believe me, ask any teacher what lice looks like - they are very hard to see, unless full grown, and they aren't white.

posted by starling02 on Mar 27, 2008 at 05:26:47 pm     #

Starling,
I thought I had made it clear that the thought of killing cats never crossed my mind...until I heard so many people suggest it...and even then...I was never considering it. The vet says the lice larvae (which looks like maggots) shows up in cat pooh (this is when the lice first get into a cats system).

Again, I am not considering or promoting killing cats. I do teach my kids compassion in everyday situttions...including hospice work, doing chores for the elderly in our church, etc.

I need not put my kids health at risk in order to teach them compassion.

posted by Kooz on Mar 27, 2008 at 05:36:00 pm     #

You helped my make my point Kooz. Animals that are cared for properly do not roam, they do not harbor diseases and they do not smell. And you aren't willing to step up to the plate and assist in making a difference. There are countless others who do, and to them you should be grateful.

posted by holland on Mar 27, 2008 at 06:04:55 pm     #

I think it sounds like these cats really need someone's help beyond that which your neighbor is providing by feeding them. Sounds like they badly need veterinary care. Regardless of the other ways you model compassion for your children, it would be compassionate to round these poor things up and take them to the Humane Society, if they'll take them. (Plus! It would solve your problem!) The Humane Society would either evaluate them as adoptable and fix them up, or as unadoptable in which case they'd be humanely euthanized, which I think most of us agree is quite preferable to shooting them (which, yes, I do understand that you don't plan to do).

My other thought is if you yourself had a cat or dog (do you?) who claimed your yard as his or her own "territory," maybe the strays would find some other yard to eliminate in? I dunno. I mean, that's not the best reason to consider getting a family dog or cat -- and it doesn't solve the larger problem in your neighborhood -- but if you've considered getting one for other reasons maybe now would be the time to do it?

posted by jmleong on Mar 27, 2008 at 06:12:57 pm     #

I wanted to stay out of this, but the enormous amount of wrong information is forcing me to respond.

1st-The dog warden did at one time do licenses for cats just like dogs. Over time the ability to enforce cat licenses got way too hard and it kinda got forgotten and ignored.

2nd-You can humanely kill a cat that is in your neighborhood if you want in the state of Ohio. Yes, some lawyer type can get on here and bring up many "gray" areas, but in general if the animal is yours, you can kill it humanely. A cat in your yard without tags or i.d. can easily be considered your cat.

3rd-The Toledo Area Humane Society does not normally handle stray cats. If you are a big donator to them, they can probably be convinced to help you, but not normally. They are also a non-profit organization. That does not mean they are "understaffed". The have a huge budget from donations and many, many gifts left from wills. Every employee is paid. The executive director not only gets a very good salary, but also gets a "company car". It used to be a fully loaded Jeep Grand Cherokee, but I don't know what it is now. Yes, they have many, many, great volunteers that help a great deal in the daily operation and special events.

4th-Humane Ohio is the organization that was instrumental in starting and running the Catch, Spay/Neuter, release program. The idea or basis of the program was to spay and neuter cats in a particular area so that they couldn't reproduce. The cats would still be occupying the area, so new cats couldn't move in, but you'd still have cats.

5th-I don't know where your yard is but 25-30 piles of cat crap in a week? I think you are exagerating a bit. Unless your yard is sand, you must have some reason those cats are staying around your yard. Besides, cats usually cover their poop. Are you sure it's cat poop? Maybe it's the canadian geese, or a small tribe of garden knomes. Try a motion detecting light, an automatic sprinkler, or one of those motion activated lawn decorations from harbor freight tools or other places. They will scare away any "feral" cat.

6th-I have a bowl of cat food outside for one major reason. The cats keep the rats away. Our wonderful neighbor's house was abandoned except for teenager parties which left the house wrecked. With all the trash and food lying around, rats were soon spotted in plain site during the day. The city said that they could not do anything about it because it was private property. They did say that if there was an alley, they could set traps in the alley, but not on private property. After trapping 8 rats, several even escaped the big rat traps, I chose to feed loose cats. The result, I get opossums, raccoons and cats, but no rats. I did some research on the opossums and raccoons and found that they are much better for my yard and much better in general than rats. I'll continue to feed the cats. I've been doing it for about a year now and have never seen or found cat poop in my yard.

Finally, while it is a choice to kill the cats, I can't see any normal human being doing so. Why is your yard the only yard that has become a cat poop magnet? Usually when I hear a complaint like yours, it is a stuffy old person who spends their time sitting at a window just waiting for a bird to land in a tree and poop on their car. Then they have an excuse to have the tree cut down. All the while complaining that they were "forced" to remove the tree because of the hassle it caused.

All kidding aside, if you want to give me an idea of your address, I can come by and give you some ideas and/or assess the situation. I used to work in the field.

posted by tommy1 on Mar 27, 2008 at 06:32:54 pm     #

I work with Planned Pethood, which also does cat rescues. Unfortunately, I am on the dog side of the organization, and we canine activists don't spend much time with the felinophiles ( we call it "The Dark Side").

If you could email me the general directions, Kooz, I will pass along the information to the cat people. No promises, but they might be able to help.

mbrooks AT utnet DOT utoledo DOT edu

posted by historymike on Mar 27, 2008 at 06:46:48 pm     #

Tommy....I agree with yuou about the Toledo Humane Society...I contacted them...and they DO NOT handle stray cats. I am not exaggerating the 25-30 piles of pooh a week. I welcome you to come cut my grass this summer. It takes me three hours to get it done because I'm constantly having to stop to clean cat pooh from my shoes and lawn mower wheels. You are also misinformed about cats covering their pooh. Yes, healthy home cats do...but as the vet said, diseased stray cats usually do not....and I've seen them pooh in my yard on a constant basis.

Also, its not just my yard. Its about four homes on our street. These people are also upset...they just don't get on a computer and bitch like I do. Two of them have already tried to catch them...but, the cats attacked one guy and he had to go get checked for rabies. I'm not going to try that. One guy tried to mix rat poison with cat food and he said they ate around all the poison.

Keep in mind...I don't want to kill them. My original post was expressing surprise at how many people used killing them as their first suggestion for the problem.

You all may be glad to know I did name them....Since they look like a bunch of hoodlums. We named them....Capone, Tight Lip Louie, Thunder, Charky, Nasty Ass Cat, Scab Head, Shitter, Muck Eyes, Lice Bucket and Jeter. My wife's a big Derek Jeter fan.

posted by Kooz on Mar 28, 2008 at 04:03:04 pm     #

True, the Toledo Humane Society does not go out and search for and capture stray cats, however they do cat adoptions and other services.

http://www.toledohumanesociety.com/tahs/adoption/

Also from their mission statement: "The Humane Society is the only animal welfare group in this community who will give refuge to any animal at-risk for abuse or neglect, regardless of its type, health, age or whether we have space." I believe that covers it.

In that brief period when The Lucas County Dog Warden did license cats, the Lucas County Commissioners did not give them any funds for enforcement.

posted by holland on Mar 28, 2008 at 04:43:46 pm     #

Kooz, like myself and someone else posted, get us the address and maybe we can help. No one should be held hostage in their own home or yard. And since they haven't perfected feces as an energy source, we should get a handle on those cats.
Email me your street or address or a block that you see the cats at

joeyjwil65@aol.com

posted by tommy1 on Mar 28, 2008 at 08:10:20 pm     #

I had a contractor to the house today to look at doing some repair work...When we were out in the yard he said, "Holy shit, I've never seen so much cat shit." I explained the problem with the neighbor feeding them. His response was, "I'd kill the sons-of-bitches." (speaking of the cats)

posted by Kooz on Apr 02, 2008 at 05:26:20 pm     #